Dog Discussion: Praising BAD Behaviors Is GOOD - The Fastest Gentlest Most Effective Method In The Whole Wild World, Bar NONE. <{}; ~ )>

Praising BAD Behaviors Is GOOD - The Fastest Gentlest Most Effective Method In The Whole Wild World, Bar NONE. <{}; ~ )>
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H*@HotMail.Com
2006-05-22 22:08:46 EST
Praising BAD Behaviors Is GOOD -
The Fastest Gentlest Most Effective Method
In The Whole Wild World,
Bar NONE. <{}; ~ ) >

HOWEDY People,

This post will cover most of what you never thought
of and MOORE than you already know about stuff...

> We have 3 children under age 13
> And a New Foundland/ Aussie Shep. mix.

Interesting X. I've never seen one of them
bfore, and I'm not big on "breed" issues,
but I just got to laugh at that picture I got
in my head of a Aussie runnin around in a
Nwfie suit. I'm fallin outta my armchair
and my sides are splittin!!!

> We have had this dog for 1.5 years. She was a
> rescue and she was 7 wks old when we got her.

Fine. I prefer to see pups get into their new HOWSES
as soon as they're weaned. Many folk prefer to allow
the pups to stay with mom till twelve weeks or so, but
I've never seen a problem for pups who'd been "orphaned"
and into their family much earlier. My preference is six
weeks. But that's not addressing your questions.

> She is fixed and weighs 73 lbs.

My 40 years experience and some studies I recently
read indicates some aggression may be precipitated
by S/N. It's a hot button topic for many people, because
it's one of those things where "you're damned if you do
and damned if you don't." FWIW, according to Judaic
law, spaying would be appropriate, neutering would not.
There's other laws in their book about such issues as
muzzling working draft animals etc. Very interesting stuff.

> I believe that she has been at this weight for nearly a year.

Oh drat! You just burst my bubble! Now I can't laugh
about a Aussie dressed in a Newfie suit.

> She is extremely energetic

When I hear that, I think HYPERACTIVE. Hyperactivity
is caused by stress barring such outside influences
as toxins in the environment or malignancy of some sort.
Purdue recently did some stuff on OCD and determined
that stress percipiticpates OCD behaviors (Duh-Oh!). No
news to this trainer.

Here's an OCD behavior problem that could
get this dog very sick or DEAD:

"Things are beginning to get much worse day
by day and the vets seem unable to help.

http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorR ufusMed.WMV

http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorR ufusSmall.WMV"

That can be EXXXTINGUISHED in just a
few minutes using non physical brief variable
distractions instantly followed by prolonged
non physical praise and praise in advance.

That's HOWE COME it's SO EZ for my
students to break the anxiety SYNDROME
and rehabilitate their hyperactive dogs in a
few days, maybe less.

Thyroid problems could be involved there too, and
I've got a different take on that as well. I rather doubt
the thyroid or any system is likely to malfunction for
no reason. I believe that the constant on/off stress of
ORDINARY DAILY LIFE in an ORDINARY NORMAL
HOWEshold, is enough to push dogs, and some
breeds more EZily than other's over the edge, resulting
in obsessive compulsive behavior disorders like hyperactivity,
excessive chewing,barking, digging, pacing, HOWEling,
separation anxiety, self mutilation, fear of thunder, and
even most carsickness and urinary tract / bladder stone
symptoms, endocrin DIS-EASES an Cushings / Addison's
SYNDROME SYMPTOMS and even cataracts glaucoma
and dental DIS-EASE.

> and is really a sweet dog for the most part.

When I hear THAT, I don't wanna ask what's after
the most part...

> Our biggest problem is her attitude with our girls.

Bummer. I hate that. Scares the beejeesus outta me.

> She loves them one minute

Good, I'm relieved.

> and then for no apparent reason snarls at them.

Dogs don't do things for no reason. Do you know
what will provoke her? There's a commonality
between all behavior problems, so if you can think
of what when and where she'd had incidents in the
past, you might isolate the triggers, and then you're
half way done training her...

> I have been watching her intensely

Perhaps even just your scrutiny can be pressuring her.
Dogs are very sensitive critters, it doesn't take much
to throw them outta whack.

> and I can say without a doubt that none of our children
> have harmed the dog or scared her in any way.

Probably true, but that's the half of it also. I'll try to explain
later...

> She is extremely protective of food

Right. That sez to me, she's insecure. It's a survival
instinct. HOWE COME should she be insecure and
thinking of herself first, rather than "feedin the family,"
as a mom dog would do? Well, mom dogs do not,
they need to sustain themselves first, so they can take
care of the bigger picture, even if that means culling
her litter.

Greed is what it looks like, but dogs aren't capitalists,
so it's got to be something telling her there's not
enough to go around. Perhaps she's been teased with
treats or had rewards withheld? Dogs are scavengers.
They steal scraps of food and run to hide with their back
to the wall in a heightened state of alert.

Putting food or bribes into an untrusting dog's face
will likely make him think fight/flight/survive... so I
never use food bribes. Sure you can train animals
and slaves by withholding or treating with food, it's
the bottom line when you think about it. You'd need
a mighty big treat bag to control all the food in creation
Anything that takes precedence in your dog's mind
over you, is usurping your authority and diminishing
your dog's esteem for you.

> and once she has been given her food she will growl
> if anyone comes even remotely close.

Right. That sez to me she's not entirely trusting, that
something is concerning her that she's not SAFE.
AGGRESSION IS FEAR. We don't attack for no
reason, we attack to defend ourselves from a real
or perceived threat.

In looking for answers, I am not looking to make excuses
for the dog's behavior. I personally don't care HOWE COME
the dog does something, I deal with the whole problem from
another perspective entirely, and many of these insecurity
issues will be AUTOMAGICKALLY CURED, just by removing
the inconsistencies and stressors in her daily life.

Like tellin IT, "NO!" or any scolding or negative interaction.

Whoever said "it's a dogs life," never put on the hat...
Dogs are just as sensitive about family tensions like children
squabbling and parents correcting them or the dog, for
whatever.

LOOK at HOWE many times a day you probably have
to say 'STOP THAT!' and correct all of them? At bedtime
the kids may give you the standard bedtime runaround, a kid
falling and crying about it can make the dog nervous, anything
goes.

> She won't do that with me

Hmmm. That makes me very suspicious. I like
CONSISTENCY. Even if it's bad. But that may
be good too, cause it could give us some insight
into what's goin down here.

> but if someone else walks by she will growl even if
> they are in the other direction.

By 'someone else,' you mean the kids, anybody else
or everybody else? That too, may give some insight
as to what's cookin.

> Her snarling at the girls is in no way related to food.

Hmmm. She's OK with the kids and food? That's got
my antennae up. I believe you're sayin she's SAFE
with the girls passing her while eating. THAT makes
me very happy, if that's correct. At least about the
food issue but it offsets itself with the dichotomy
of her incidents with the kids. There's too many
inconsistencies, and that's gonna tell us what's
the problem, I think.

> And there is no one thing that sets her off.

Good. Tell us what you know of will set her off,
and we can figure out what's upsettin her and
HOWE to break the response.

> One minute she is happy and playing and the other
> she will snarl if they walk by.

That doesn't give me a clear picture. Again, if
you can predict when a behavior will happen,
we can set it up to break or extinguish it, if
it's still a problem after we do some simple
preliminary relaxation and conditioning exercises.

> It is as if she doesn't respect them.

Forget respect. FEAR. Something concerns her,
it's not disrespect.

> I should mention that the possibility of me
> meeting a dog behaviorist

You just did.

> is nil due to the fact we live in a remote part of Alaska,

No problem.

> accessible only by air.

Likewise. I do all my work from sittin right here stark
ravin nekkid.

> Any suggestions you can give would be greatly appreciated.

I'm wondering if you've done any training with her
and if so, HOWE was she trained. The fact she does
not growl at YOU when you're near her food is probably
not because it's you who gave her the food.

That she doesn't growl at the kids around the food,
makes me wonder if she's ever been corrected for
'food guarding' with the children.

That could explain HOWE COME she won't growl at
them near the food, but will in other situations particularly
play, concerns me, but in a GOOD way. That's displaced
aggression, I expect. That's cause by repressing behaviors.

My methods use alternately variable distractions and
prolonged non physical praise to extinguish the reflexive
behavior through triggerin and non fulfillment, not by ever
offering REPLACEMENT or alternate behaviors, because
THAT disavails us of training opportunities and leaves the
problem behavior intact, waitin on the whim of the dog.

That suggests to me that she may be reacting to
an incident perhaps long ago where she or the kids
had been scolded or corrected for roudy play?

That's called superstitious or flashback behavior, whereby
a former incident is thought of by a similar circumstance
and the dog simple flashes back to that former state
of mind and isn't even thinkin of the present, and usually
ends pretty quickly, soon as he realizes this is a different
time and place.

All we got to do is play with that thought a few times if
everything else is in order, and the dog will quickly override
his BOOGEYMAN...

The food guarding is not against the children, is that correct?
Perhaps I'm a little unclear on the scenario. I think you're
saying she's fine with you and the kids around the food, the
food being an issue for other family members, visitors etc?

Has she ever had an incident of growling at you? If so,
when, where, and HOWE did you respond to it. Also,
HOWE do you currently respond to her incidents with
the kids now and HOWE often does this happen?

Do you give her treats? Will she 'go off' around a
treat or only AT her food bowl, and is she OK with
your children around their food and do the children
give her treats and is she OK with that?

Finally, do you crate her? If so, does she go to her crate
on her own? If so, that too, can be causing or exacerbating
these issues.

Crating can cause a lot of problems for insecurity.
Because the crate becomes a safe haven for her,
kinda like hiding under the covers from the boogeyman,
when the door opens, it's like havin to get outta bed
in the dark to go to the toilet... SCARY!!!

You might crawl over the bed to get close the light
and then run and jump to hit the switch before the
monster under the bed can get your by your ankles.

Those answers will give us a better idea of exactly
HOWE COME the dog is growling. But after all is
said, it still doesn't matter to me except as a curiosity.
We'll fix this behavior problem EZ, I'm certain.

She doesn't sound too scary to me now that we've
looked at what she's doing. In fact, and please
correct me if I misunderstood, she's ONLY staring
and growling and showing some teeth? She's never
tried to assault the kids, right?

What do you feed and are you using any chemicals
around her like floor cleaners containing phenols? I ask
about food because some contain BHA, BHT, ETHOXYQUIN,
or propylene glycol as preservatives and they're suspect
of causing some hyperactive like behavior.

You might break the food guarding malarkey by simply
moving the dish to another location, preferably a neutral
area. IOW, take her out of the environment in which
she's accustomed to having incidents, and desensitize
her there.

But don't start messin with that stuff till you know
HOWE to handle it just in case she should go off
when you try testing it out. Besides, after an hour
of training that food thing will probably disappear
on it's own, just from the basic conditioning exercises.

You might try taking her dinner bowl in hand and
slowly walking her around while eating and making
passes by other folks. But not yet, you got a little
study to do and some practice... about two hours
work. Must be COLD out there.

Lets get the lesson plan in mind so you'll have your
wits about you if she should growl so we don't lose
an opportunity to address an incident should she growl,
because doin so in new environment would make it
that much easier to break, due to the change of environ.

Same question goes for the growling. Is that a generalized
behavior or does she only do it say, in the living room
or only inside the HOWES, will she growl if they're playin
outside.

Does she growl ONLY when she's in play? That
could be VERY telling. Does she growl when she
is NOT ALREADY EXCITED PLAYING (besides
at the food bowl, I'm over that)? If so, that's the
problem, BUT, that still leaves the question of
WHO does she growl at around food? That too
could tie up another loose end.

Does she always / sometimes / not often come to
the kids when they call her? Will she always come
to you when you call? Is she walked on leash often,
and is she well behaved or is it a struggle, and what
kind of collar do you use. Even though you're not
writing about an on leash problem, we're still gonna
need to work her on lead and longe line for the initial
conditioning exercises.

> Sincerely,

The program I teach begins by stopping all negative
or corrective responses and interactions with her. That
includes scolding the children, because that may be
what provokes her to growl. That's called allelomimetic
behavior. IOW, if you scold the kids for jumpin on the
sofa, the dog will copy your action and attitudes and
likewise correct them.

Sibling rivalry is not caused by siblings, is cause by
mishandling. Scolding one peer in front of the others
causes animosity towards the others whom the subject
was scolded in front of. That causes 2 things to happen.
The scolded party gets embarrasses and assaults
the observers of the scolding, or the observers copy
the disciplinarian, and likewise scold the subject.

Catch22.

HOWE are we gonna control three kid critters and
one Aussie runnin around in a midget Newfie suit???
Could take three juvenile detention and one AC
officers 24/8 to throw down on them when they get
goin like kids will do.

I'm pretty EZ going, but I require strict discipline. I
can't have a child interrupting me while I'm doin this
and have my dogs going kookamunga while I'm
trying to teach someone on the phone HOWE
to control their dog's barking, for example.

NOW I'd be curious about the ages of the kids
"children under age 13," cause if there's things like
hyperactive or disabled children or autistic kids or
an infant who'd maybe cry or have seizures or
whatever that could upset the dog.

I'm not lookin for excuses to mitigate her behavior, just
to understand it better so's we're lookin at the facts
of the matter based on what is happening Vs feelings
about HOWE whatever we may emotionally feel about
stuff.

We want to back away from the micro aspects
of the behavior so we can take in the big picture
and then we can see what parts don't fit, and figure
out what to do to remedy the etiology rather than
fightin symptoms of the problem, because as we
repress symptoms, they change, to other, often
worse, seemingly non related behaviors as
trainsfer or replacement behaviors.

That's HOWE COME so many dogs go through
every behavior problem in the book before simply
runnin outa behavior problems that haven't already
been repressed.

Think about it. As we repress all the normal puppy
behaviors we make the pup nervous cause he's only
a animal. They cannot know right from wrong, only
what's nice and what's not. They're not a human child,
they cannot understand BAD.

Dogs do not DO, BAD, dogs only do dog, and of curse,
they also copy us. As the dog matures to 8-9 months
they go through their 'adolescent rebellious' stage (Scott
&Fuller).

HOWE can a dog have a rebellious stage if there's
nothing to REBEL AGAINST? Well, he still has not
run through all the behavior problems he can be
provoked into, so when he's maturing as a teenager
and trying for more freedom, we become more repressive
because the dog is out of hand, and there goes the shootin
match.

My student's dogs do not go through that because we
never have a negative or forced interaction with them,
we NEVER tell them NO or INSIST on a command,
because THAT triggers the opposition reflex and makes
the dog rebel.

Our dogs are eager to work because we PRAISE IN
ADVANCE, with the command, all in one breath not
after the dog has finished doin his behavior. Dogs do
not work for credit. By the time the dog comes to
you when called, he's no longer thinking of the
command.

Dogs respond in predictable, innate normal
natural instinctive, reflexive, ways to situations
and circumstances of their environment which
we provide for them.

That means we can change or control the environment
to set the dog up to perform as predicted, and know
when to do what you've planned in advance, to properly
trigger / distract / praise / trigger / distract / praise the
behavior till it's extinguished, MUCH LIKE FLOODING,
but not quite...

Or, we may use traditional flooding techniques
with distraction / praise to extinguish behaviors.

Before addressing behavior problems we condition the
dog to praise with every brief eye contact and learn
HOWE to handle the lead so we're not pulling on the
collar and triggering the dog or hyping him up for
a random outburst.

Proper leash handling techniques insures safety
and teaches the dog gentleness and conditions
them to respond to our praise, as it entices the
dog in and settles him down in just a few minutes.

It's kinda like Dr. Ian Dunbar's "make like a tree," but
not really anything at all quite like it. They just look similar
at first glance. The Hot & Cold Exercise is like the kid's
game "gettin hotter gettin colder" with the dog's attention
and body as we stand and handle the lead properly to
get the feel for it and reassure the dogs we ain't gonna
be pullin no more on them.

After a few minutes the dog will be hangin out waitin
for you to do something, then you're ready to go into
the Family Leadership Exercise where we very subtly
work the dog in a conditioning routine we'll rely on for
other situations and begin to install the come command
as a conditioned reflex.

That usually takes my students about one hour, often less,
very rarely four hours, but that'd get a perfect recall on
the most difficult critter. Once we've got that dog willing to
work with us we can begin to break his behavior problems
using variable distractions and praise techniques.

Using praise in advance relaxes the dog and encourages
him. For training, isn't that all we need?

Praising BAD BEHAVIORS is GOOD. If your dog were
boltin out the door, it's not "NO! STOP!," it's GOOD
GIRL NICEDOG YOU'RE A GOOOOD FELLA!!.

The dog ain't goin NOWHERE except come back over
to you. Might even ask him if he wants to go to the park.

Sure he wants to but you don't. Who cares? He's only
a DOG. Tell him you're gonna put your shoes on to
go but it'll be a minit. Dogs like kids FORGET in a
minute... Tomorrow when you ARE going to the
park, tell him you're goin cause you PROMISED him
yesterday, and now it's time. They'll think you're the
kat's pajamas for bein the greatest mom/dad in the
Whole Wild World.

Dogs and kids just wanna have fun. Therefore my dogs
never see me frown on them. NO MATTER WHAT. I
never tell them NO or DON'T, or physically reach to
restrain them, partly because THAT would trigger the
opposition reflex and compel the dog to "outstep me"
and rush the door or eat the steak or whatever AND
teach the dog that doin THAT, will command 100%
of your undivided attention...

That's HOWE COME proper understanding of the
methods and developing the feel for leash handling
is imperative, so's we don't sabotage ourselves by
reacting to our own fears of dangerous situations
we're gonna work through in a few minutes if you
can refrain yourself from saying NO DON'T! and
pullin the lead to force control.

Of course I know that your dog isn't having leash
problems, but it fits here...

Our dogs naturally want to do everything they're asked,
cause just like kids an ladies, dogs just wanna have fun.

Your Puppy Wizard. <{}YPW; ~ } >

From: <n>
To: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 5:21 PM

Subject: Re: Damned Family Leadership Exercise -

Re: Am I expecting to much

- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

> Hi Jerry,
> When I talked to you on the phone to order to machine
> for daughter's new pup, I told you that I had an older
> Chessie. I rescued him at 9 years old and have had him
> for 3 years.
> It's funny, but I thought I'd try some of your book training
> with him.
> Where I used to say "come" and then say "good boy"
> when he obeyed, I have reversed it with a "good boy" first.
> It really does work. He was very confused at first,
> wondering what he had done to get the praise.
> But it really gets the attention and distracts him from
> whatever he may have going through his brain when
> he hears it.
> Dogs are funny, but people are too. Can't wait to get
> the Doggy do Right, etc.
> Thanks,
> N

==================

"Greg M. Silverman" <gmsNOS...@no.umn.edu> wrote in message

Hey, Mr. Wizard, or Alchemist or whatever your alias
of the day is, have to say that our dog heels much
better than she did. This is after reading and
implementing the bit in your "Wits End" treatise.

And she's a royal nutter (but then again, aren't they all?).
Cheers! Greg--

--------------------

Hi, Jerry.

I'm not sure that I'm a 100% convert, or that I agree
with (or even understand) 100% of what you say in this
manual ... BUT ... we had "come" down pat in a few
reps and you could have knocked me down when I tried
the exercise with "drop" and, after a few reps in
different spots Darwin practically *threw* the rubber
ball at my feet on command. He's still not perfect
(just a pup, after all, and he's stubborn enough to
want to push and test me a little bit more).

For what it's worth, I can see (as no doubt you have)
how your usenet manner is likely to rankle a few
folks, but that woman who advocates ear pulling and
beating with sticks deserves everything she gets. Even
if that was the only method that would work, I'd live
with my dog not fetching rather than do any of that.
(Darwin fetches enthusiastically and instinctively,
tho').

Best, ben

===================

From: Eric
To: jho...@bellsouth.net
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 7:54 AM
Subject: just checking in..

Jerry!

You helped me with my pal Dundee about a year ago
regarding submissive peeing. Just wanted to let you
know he's doing great- he was "cured" in about 2 days
using your techniques!

He has since become the "smartest dog in the world"!
Once I stopped thinking like a human and got inside his
head, I can teach him ANYTHING, usually in a matter
of minutes. Makes me look like an expert dog-trainer.

I rescued two strays last week, cleaned 'em up, wormed
'em, and am getting them their shots. Time to get inside
their heads and teach them to teach themselves how to
be good dogs!

Instead of feeling like "training" is a chore, I look forward
to working with these guys a couple times a day...

Although I don't follow your instructions "to a T", I learned
from you to "think like a dog" and stimulate their brain rather
than beating ass or pinching, or any of that nonsense.

I know damn well I would NOT be loyal to someone
who beat MY ass lol!

Well, just wanted to thank you for rattling the bushes
out there and teaching folks the RIGHT way to "train" dogs.

A horseman friend of mine uses very similar techniques in
training his horses- he calls it "natural horsemanship". He
is hated by nearly all the local "trainers" yet somehow he
repeatedly wins at every show he attends. He rarely shows
any more, but goes now and then to rub their noses in it
(pun intended)... Too cool....

Have a great holiday season and keep up the good work!

Eric , Dundee, Sammy, and Maynard

==========================

Subject: Re: Dog will not listen to anyone but me!
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 11:33:36 -0500
Message-ID: uim43blqq1h...@corp.supernews.com

Okay, I gotta speak up here... We've been using Jerry's
methods with our dog. We had the same problem as the
original poster has with Buzz. One day working with the
family pack exercise and practicing the recall command
with the family and she'll now go out with hubby and
daughter instead of needing me to reassure her or even
refusing to go with anyone but me.

I really urge you, regardless of the negative things you
might hear about Jerry & Wits' End here, to try the method
and *judge the results for yourself*.

Let's see what other areas she's improved in... always
comes when called, not chewing stuff even if we leave
it laying around, "re"housebroken after long shelter stay,
walks perfectly on leash, doesn't try to steal food from
our plates or beg... probably a few more things I'm
forgetting to mention. *(Yeah, the kats lay off the koi
and don't wander. jh).

That's in about a week's time.

Her overall demeanor has changed. When we brought
her home she was very untrusting and ultra-submissive
(except with her area/toys where she was possessive and
nippy).

She had been abused and beaten by previous owners,
then she was in a shelter for months. They (most of them)
wanted to give up and kill her Now she's gained confidence
and trust with us. Last night was another big breakthrough
(in my eyes). She barked! Big deal, she barked just once
when she heard the front door. Great!

Anyway, you'll be told lots of nasty stuff about Jerry or that
the Wits' End manual is culled from other sources. In my
opinion, even if it is, it takes only the good stuff and leaves
out the bad. Works for me.

(And I suppose I gotta say this... I don't know Jerry personally.
I've emailed him and instant messaged him. I have not bought a
"Doggy Do Right". He's offered help for free.)

Ms. Mick Owen Crneckiy
http://www.crneckiy.com & http://tarot.crneckiy.com
E-mail & MSN Messenger: m...@crneckiy.com
AIM & Yahoo!: MickCrneckiy ~ ICQ: 72461227

======================

"Hoku Beltz" <h...@rsphawaii.com> wrote in message

news:SN2k9.45447$V7.10868114@twister.socal.rr.com...

> Aloha Sunny,
> Just follow the training program to the letter, no matter how
> insignificant some of the step seem to be and your puppy will
> be a very well behaved dog in a few days.
> I would seriously consider backing out of the training
> classes as they will conflict with the Wit's End principles.
> I went the training route first, and still had problems until
> I found Wits' End. Now I have two "new and improved" dogs.
> You won't be disappointed if you follow the program.
> Good luck,
> Hoku

==================

- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
----- Original Message -----
From: Hoku Beltz
To: The Puppy Wizard
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:12 PM
Subject: Mahalo

Aloha Jerry,

Just wanted to let you know that the surrogate toy
technique is working wonders. I have not had a
shredded sheet for over a week now. It is nice
to be able to leave the bed made and come home
to a made bed.

Your program is awesome, but you already know
that. Keep up the good work!

Hoku

==================

Thank you,
Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
Human And Animal Behavior
Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory,
BIOSOUND Scientific
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092


Showdogbark
2006-05-23 16:43:00 EST
Yup The Amazing Puppy Wizard knows how to train dogs, and this post has
much information on it to help understand some of the ideas behind his
methods.
The Puppy Wizard is kind enough to personally answer any dog problems a
person has if they still do not know how to help their dog with his
free manual. He will for free help with a dog or animal problem over
the phone. Any one who has not tried the free wit's end manual would
benefit from doing so and if they still need help there is his phone
number.
Very selfless and loyal like a dog to the animal world. I take this
time to thank Jerry for all his time he gives away for free to protect
animals. Hats off to you and dear Barbara for your promoting peace by
educating us on new attitudes toward dog training and animal behavior,
for it is true one can judge a nation on how it treats it's animals.
Show Dog Bark


H*@HotMail.Com
2006-05-24 10:37:55 EST
HOWEDY william robb aka billyboob, professional dog trainin CON
MAN LIAR FRAUD and DOG MURDERIN SCAM ARTIST <{) ; ~ ) >

WELCOME To The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Forums.

I'm Jerry Howe, The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >

Here's your own FREE COPY of The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual <{) : ~ } >

<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>

William Robb wrote:
> Now if he would just stop being such an abusive asshole,

The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method and natural heelth Forums are FAMILY newsgroups,
billybooby <{) ; ~ ) >

HOWE COME so often, does so called ADULT language and
behavior seem so CHILDISH, yet rude and unchildlike, billybooby?

CuriHOWES ain't it, HOWE followin "the dog whisperer" SHOWE
on NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC T.V., so called age apupriate warnings
are given to the followin programming having to do with childbirth
yet viciHOWES actions and behaviors like jerking choking shocking
spraying aversives in dogs faces and alphalpha rolling them have
no such warnings. Don't you think that demonstrates some awful
flaws in HOWER thinkin, billybooby <{) : * ~ ( >

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress
can be judged
by the way its animals are treated."
~ Mohandas Gandhi -- Adapted with permission from
his FREE copy of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method manual. <} ; ~ ) >

There are NO grey areas between RIGHT and WRONG.

"If you talk with the animals, they will talk with you
and you will know each other.
If you do not talk to them, you will not know them,
and what you do not know you will fear.

What one fears, one destroys."
Chief Dan George

"Only the unenlightened speak of wisdom
and right action as separate,
not the wise.

If any man knows one, he enjoys the fruit of both.

The level which is reached by wisdom
is attained
through right action as well.

He who perceives that the two are one knows the truth."

"Even the wise man acts in character with his nature,
indeed all creatures act according to their natures.

What is the use of compulsion then?

The love and hate which are aroused
by the objects of sense
arise from Nature,
do not yield to them.

They only obstruct the path." --

-- Bhagavad Gita, adapted by
Krishna with permission from
His FREE copy of The Puppy
Wizard's FREE Wits' End Dog
Training Method manual <{) ; ~ ) >

> he might gain a whit of credibility.

The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual STUDENTS all over the WHOWEL WILD
WORLD REPORT gettin 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANT
SUCCESS and FOR FREE, to boot, billybooby, witHOWET jerking
choking crating bribing mutilating intimidatin an murderin innocent
defenseless dumb critters like HOWE you do, billybooby <{) ; ~ ) >

That SCARES you as a PROFESSIONAL DOG TRAINER don't it, billybooby <{)
: ~ ( >

No surprise even DOGMAN sez you ain't got the knowHOWE or
ability to train a dog and recommended YOU find a PROFESSIONAL
trainer like hisself to HANG your "STUDENT'S" dog pupperly <{) ; ~ ) >

> Come to think of it,

Do you REMEMBER the time you wrote in askin for HEELP with a
dog you'd made AGGRESSIVE and was AFRAID to HANG like
HOWE it sez in your koehler book? PERHAPS THAT was on
accHOWENT of the dog was in a group class and you was too
EMBARRASSED to demonstrate your TECHNIQUES.

Or was it you was too AFRAID of the dog you was askin for ADVICE
HOWE to advise his owner to MURDER IT, billybooby <{) : ~ ( >

> someone who is that free with the abuse via email

The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard has IDENTIFIED
EXXXPOSED and DISCREDITED you and your ilk, billybooby.

"It is by muteness that a dog becomes
so utterly beyond value."

Like a confessor Priest?

"With him, words play no torturing tricks..., "
--John Galsworthy.

Don't bet your dog won't tell on you...
Their behaviors reflect
HOWER words, actions and training quirks.

It's ALL indellibly archived in The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy
Wizard's Human And Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences Research
Laboratory Archives on Google and other fine pubic unmoderated
news group search engines, billybooby <{) ; ~ ) >

> is probably a dog abuser in real life.

IN REAL LIFE we got YOUR OWN POSTED CASE HISTORY of
HURTIN INTIMIDATING BRIBING CRATING MUTILATING and
MURDERIN innocent defenseless dumb critters for your own
PROFIT and to satisfy your fragile defective EGO, WEAK FEAR
RIDDEN MIND and compensate for your COLOSSAL INFERIORITY
COMPLEXES <{) : ~ ( >

The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME Is the Perfect Synergy Of
Love, Pride, Desire, Shame, Greed, Ego, Fear,
Hate, Reflex, Self Will,
Arrogance, Ignorance, Predjudice, Cowardice,
Disbelief, Jealousy, Embarrassment, Embellishment,
Guilt, Anger, Hopelessness, Helplesness,
Aversion, Attraction, Inhibition, Revulsion, Repulsion,
Change, Permanence, Enlightenment, Insult, Attrition,
And
Parental / ReligiHOWES / Societal Conditioning.

YOU ARE THE CRITTER YOU WAS TRAINED.

It Is The Perfect Fusion Of The Word..., In The Physical.

The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >

> --
> William Robb

Oh, bye the bye billybooby, you can't post here abHOWETS
nodoGdamenedMOORE.

The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ;
~ ) >

> "showdogbark" <jotnaringin@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1148416980.088273.51120@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > Yup The Amazing Puppy Wizard knows how to train dogs, and this post has
> > much information on it to help understand some of the ideas behind his
> > methods.
>
> > The Puppy Wizard is kind enough to personally answer any dog problems
> > a person has if they still do not know how to help their dog with his free
> > manual.
>
> > He will for free help with a dog or animal problem over
> > the phone. Any one who has not tried the free wit's end manual would
> > benefit from doing so and if they still need help there is his phone
> > number.
>
> > Very selfless and loyal like a dog to the animal world. I take this
> > time to thank Jerry for all his time he gives away for free to protect
> > animals. Hats off to you and dear Barbara for your promoting peace by
> > educating us on new attitudes toward dog training and animal behavior,
> > for it is true one can judge a nation on how it treats it's animals.
> > Show Dog Bark

HOWEDY Lauren,

>From : Lauren
Sent : Friday, May 19, 2006 12:13 PM

> Hi, Jerry,

> I just had a sudden thought/question....

Ooops? Is that a good thing? If you got a question that means
I didn't explain it clearly and that makes me sad <{):* - ( >

> The method for training a dog TO do something, is the same
> as the method for training the dog to NOT do something, right?

Almost. To extinguish a behavior the sound is instantly
followed by prolonged non physical praise and intermittenly
the whole while the dog may be thinkin.

> So.... Let's say one person wants to train their dog *TO*
> jump on the bed, at the command "bed" and one person wants
> to train their dog *NOT* to jump on the bed at all...

No problem. Dogs can be trained to stay behind their
3-4' fences yet jump hurdles even higher in the field
or agility ring etc. and even be told to hop the fence
as in retrieving a ball or chasing a HOWEsbreaker.

It's all in PERMISSION or CONDITIONING or even "learned
disobedience," as in a guide dog not leadin a blind handler
into obstacles even though being asked to on command or
not attackin the children for playin cowboys.

> Aren't BOTH people going to be doing the EXACT SAME THING ??

No. They'll be conditioning the dog to their preferences
just like in protection trainin, sometimes be aggressive
other times not, depnding on the circumstances they've
been trained to negotiate automatically.

The dog will know he's not supposed to be up on the bed
or more correctly, he'll be CONDITIONED to not get up
there because the thought has been DECONDITIONED or
COUNTER CONDITIONED INTERRUPTED or EXTINGUISHED through
the techniques like a pupperly trained attack dog won't
go off on folks who are doin what they're supposed to.

The get up command is never done without the command phrase.
The dog therefore isn't "doing it" on his own, he doesn't
have that as a THOUGHT because it's been pupperly extinguished.

All he's doin is REFLEXING to his command. Kinda like a
hypnotist would condition a post hypnotic suggestion.

> Person One, who wants their dog to jump on the bed, probably
> gets on the bed and invites the dog with a "come" and then,
> when the dog starts to get up on the bed, Person One does the
> "good doggy, jump on the bed, good doggy, jump on the BED,
> good doggy jump on the bed, good doggy jump on the BED"
> sequence, and is HAPPY their dog is on the bed.

Right. That'll condition the command as a conditional
reflex so long as we stop with the distraction technique
soon as the dog thinks of the command and again, lock his
thinking on the "TO DO" (phrase "get up on the bed, good
boy") or "NOT TO DO" (no command phrase, brief variably
alternating sound or variable non physical distraction
INSTANTLY followed by prolonged non physical praise and
PRAISE IN ADVANCE when the dog thinks of DOIN or NOT DOIN)
the behavior or thought.

'All critters learn beast through play' Lorenz.

And that'll inspire the dog to want to do it.

> Person Two comes into their bedroom, sees their dog on
> the bed, which they DON'T want, and does the EXACT same
> four "good-doggy-bed" sentences, right ????

Not quite. When extinguishing a behavior we distract /
praise with NO CUE or KEY word. You're wanting to think
of this as an aversive or "command". We're not extinguishing
behaviors and thoughts by giving alternate incompatible
commands or rewards, we're just "wearin out the thought
process" like you might corrupt a software program by
opening an closing it without letting it fully load.

First problem is if the dog is already ON the bed to
get him off without makin it KNOWN to him that the
behavior is undesirable or you'll REINFORCE it by
means of your obvious response and next he'll
reflexively oppose you.

ASK the dog to please get off the bed. There's two case
historys of this copied below. But that won't be complete
for this particular situation.

Then you gotta extinguish the thought by allowing
or enticing the dog to get up and distract and
praise till the thought is no longer is available.

Like this:

From: Paul B (NOSPAMpaulbou...@clear.net.nz)
Subject: Re: Dog vs cat food (stealing cat food)
Date: 2001-03-03 22:18:03 PST

It's possible to teach a dog not to eat out of a cat bowl
without too much difficulty.

My dogs don't touch the food in the cat bowls although
Roz licks up any bits that have been dropped around the bowls
:-)

I used a can with stones in it to create a distraction anytime
the dogs tried to eat the cats food, followed with immediate
praise. It worked a treat.

The cats bowls are down all the time, usually there is food
left over but the dogs don't eat it, even if we go out and
leave the dogs with access inside through a dog door.

Paul

> How is the *first* dog supposed to figure out they're
> doing a GOOD thing, and the second dog supposed to
> figure out they're doing a BAD thing?

That's EZ! DOGS and CHILDREN DO NOT DO BAD THINGS!

ALL Critters Only Respond In
PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.

You GET The Critter You TRAINED

The dog is only doin what dogs DO. Like stealin from
counters or tables or chewin shoes, anything. It's
all the same. We decondition or extinguish the behavior
or CONDITION or TRAIN it and we can use it any time we
like as in retriveing shoes or the paper etc, but not on
their own volition because the thought has been "erased".

> :-( ?

The idea of getting up or not or destroyin stuff is a human
concept, an anthorpomorphization. The dog only wants to
do what's pleasurable and normal natural innate instinctive
reflexive effective behaviors as attention getting devices.
Gettin on the bed will be trained / conditioned as any other
command as a conditional reflex.

The idea of gettin up there is EXXXTINGUISHED by
distraction and praise technique by handler #2.
In the dog's mind, it's 2 different behaviors.

When handler #2 sees the dog thinkin of gettin
up he distract / praises it till the behavior
is EXXXTINGUISHED and the only time the dog
will successfully complete thinkin of the
behavior is when he'd doin it on command as
a conditional reflex which even further
distances the dog's thinkin from reflexing
to the original behavior moved to the recycle
bin in his memory.

Of curse it'd be consistent if handler #1
distract / praises if the pup gets up without
being asked. Like pickin up shoes or newspaper.

Thinkin is just like computers in so many ways.
It's curiHOWES that so many dog handlers who
consistently have difficulty are IT and EE guys!

Makes me wonder HOWE they ever get computers trained!

--------------

-Lauren "Definitely still YOUR student" Radner

PS - I bought a six-pack of V-8 sized cans of apple juice at the
grocery
story last night. I remember we had this discussion way back, and you
said
the size of the cans didn't matter, and it was okay to use something
smaller that you could hold onto two of, easier :-).

---------------

Fine!

"Oh DRAT! I coulda had a V-8"!

As Paul B and Lisa taught us, it's not the "say it
once" that's important, but SAY IT RIGHT that counts:

Paul B (NOSPAMpaulbou...@clear.net.nz)

Subject: Good dogs!!! bad dogs.??
Date: 2000/10/21

Something occurred this morning that made me think how
we treat our dogs and what expectations we have of them.

Because it was a Saturday we slept in and the dogs
eventually jumped up on the bed on my wife's side. After
a brief greeting she very abruptly demanded they get down,
"OFF THE BED" she insisted, Sam looked at her perplexed,
so she repeated the "order", so Sam tried to lick her face,
"GET OFF" she said abruptly.

Sam got down but was unsure what he had done wrong. After
a bit they both came over and jumped up on my side, I patted
them etc and eventually asked them to get down, "off the bed,
good dogs" and they hopped off immediately with no prob's.

Eileen asked me why they obey me and not her so easily.
I told her they got down for me because I asked them to,
they know the command "off the bed" or "off anything" so
there is no need to demand it of them, ask them and they
will comply, demand it and they get confused because
they think you are annoyed with them but they don't know
why so they try to "make amends" which is why Sam licked her.

I have found giving dogs "payment" in advance i.e. "Sam
sit goodboy" makes the dogs want to respond, after all, all
dogs want to be "good dogs" and if you tell them they are
good then they feel an obligation to obey your request.

Telling Sam he's a good dog after he sit's apart from been too
late is also a gamble because if he doesn't sit then there's
no positive interaction. Trust your dog, ask it to do your
request and say "good dog" sincerely at the end of the request
and I bet you'll find your dog thinking then responding
everytime.

Paul

======================


Subject: Get off the bed... please?
From: 2tails
Date: Mon, Jul 2 2001 11:52 pm
Email: 2tails <wagginta...@hotmail.com>

Something funny happened the other night....

Late in the evening, I usually relax on our bed for a while before
turning in... both of my dogs are nearly always on the bed with me,
sleeping. When my husband comes up to go to bed for the night, usually
one of the dogs is on his side of the bed. His usual response is, "Get
off, you *G--d----d* dogs! OFF!... Get OFF!" Both dogs ignore him
completely until he pushes them off....

Well, the other night he did this, and as usual there was nary a twitch
from either of them. I said casually, "Maybe you should just ask
them."

He stared at me for a second. "Pepper, get off the bed... please," he
said grudgingly.

Immediately, Pepper got up and hopped off the bed!

Another pause. "Beau, off...good boy." A little more subdued.

Beau got up, stretched, and jumped off the bed too.

I said, "See? You just have to ASK them."

He got into bed, rolled over to go to sleep, and grouched, "Never
thought I'd have to plead with a *G--d----d* dog to get offa MY bed!"

But... he hasn't been yelling OFF at the dogs anymore... :-)

-Lisa


From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST

>Paul B wrote:
>> While the concept of shake cans is not new,
>> I haven't read any other advice that says to
>> praise immediately regardless of what the dog
>> does next (the common advice is to praise once
>> the dog is doing a desired behaviour or at least
>> stopped the unwanted behaviour), this is unique
>> to Jerry (and Marilyn) and from my own experiences
>> is an important part of the process.

And how do we know this aspect of his advice is right?

Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.

His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.

--Marshall

"Marshall Dermer" <der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu>
wrote in message news:9ihtee$7ib$1@uwm.edu...

From: Paul B (NOSPAMpand...@zfree.co.nz)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 00:13:28 PST

Hello Marshall,

The way I view it from my observation of how
my dogs react is that the distraction interrupts
the dogs thought, not for good or bad, just
interrupts, the dog is therefore distracted for
a second and then will either continue the
behaviour or do something else.

The praise reassures the dog that the sound
distraction is not a threat or punishment,
however if everytime the dog resumes a
particular behaviour it's distracted immediately
(and praised immediately for reassurance) then
it quickly decides this behaviour is not fulfilling
and it ceases.

A dog will offer another behaviour in it's place
and if that is acceptable to us then we let it be
otherwise the distraction continues until a suitable
alternate behaviour is offered.

One example, Sam used to jump up on me
when I arrived home, I would shake can to
distract him right at the moment he was
about to jump up, after about 4 repetitions
he tried sitting and offering me his paw, of
course this was fine so I let it be.

While the concept of shake cans is not new,
I haven't read any other advice that says to
praise immediately regardless of what the
dog does next (the common advice is to
praise once the dog is doing a desired
behaviour or at least stopped the unwanted
behaviour), this is unique to Jerry (and Marilyn)
and from my own experiences is an important
part of the process.

> Thanks Paul! He does recommend praising
> a dog for barking, but he appears to recognize
> that this may not work and so distraction
> is recommended as a back up procedure:

From: Paul Bousie
To: The Puppy Wizard
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 8:00 AM
Subject: Geday.

Hey J,

I see nothings changed on the NG. Still the same
old crappy advice and misunderstanding of the
only advice worth reading.

The problem with your method J is that I can't
answer the questions on the NG no more, people
are after a quick fix, they don't want to understand
that dog training requires a disiplined method, I'm
now really understanding that they are all result
orientated, they want the dog to sit, to down, to
stay, to come, to stop it's "bad" behaviours, they
want to stamp out each anxiety one at a time not
realising they create a new one as they deal with
the last.

I feel sorry for them, they don't understand, they
don't even realise the errors of thier ways and
they arn't self thinkers, they follow the majority,
after all if everyone says thats the way then it
must be. I've finally realised people don't want
to learn to train dogs they want a trained dog,
they want a little puppet that sits and stays and
downs and does all the nice doggy stuff or so
they think, then when the dog acts like a dog
they come squealing to the NG asking how to
stop the dog being a dog.

I have a nice little visulisation of a dogs mind
that I think demonstrates the way we approach
dog training. Imagine lots of little circles all in a
cluster, each one representing a dog anxiety or
behaviour ( desied or not), each circle represents
something about the dog, all of them create what
a dog is.

The traditional way to train a dog is to stamp out
the "bad" circles, try to eliminate as many as you
can, problem is each one you stamp out another
takes it's place (anxiety circles can't be destroyed
they just change), obviously it's a futile exercise,
but thats the traditional way.

Now imagine a big circle that completely surrounds
all the small circles, this big circle is the whole dog,
that's what we get hold of with all the little circles
inside, we don't see the little circles we see the BIG
circle the macro as you put it and use that to train.

I laugh now when I see posts critisising you, they
are critising something they don't even understand
or even have the capacity to understand.

See ya,

Paul

=====================

"Paul B" <some...@microsoft.com> wrote in message

news:3edc57c5@clear.net.nz...

> "shaper" <nom...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:3edb6bbb@quokka.wn.com.au...

> I have been reading these forums for a few weeks
> now, and am getting really confused!!
> but is there actually anyone who has used the
> methods in this manual with any success ?
>
> I am wanting to get a rhodesian ridgeback soon
> and really would like to know the best and most
> effective way of training without using food treats
> or violence (i do agree with what the guy says about
> food treats and violence)
> Thanks for any intelligent replies

I have tried his methods and found them extremely
effective. There are several areas in particular I found
useful.

He teaches you and the dog to pay attention to each
other all the time. He teaches you to have such good
communication with your dog you don't need leash
corrections or shock collars or even food, you can get
the dogs attention any time you like by calling it or with
a snap of your fingers.

When I trained both my dogs to "heel" or walk close
to me I ended up going to the parks and teaching them
without a lead at all, that ensured I had to use good
communication and was unable to be tempted to use
the lead to correct them.

Another part of the training I agree with is not using
the "policeman" approach, where you tell a dog "no"
or react with it in such a way that you become involved
in the behaviour (by trying to stop it), this approach often
results in a dog ceasing the behaviour when you are
about but doing it when you aren't (bin raiding, counter
surfing etc).

Basically you are taught to make your dog a good
friend who likes and wants to work for you for the
pleasure of working for you (setting the hierarchy
is included in this), teach it to recall reliably, then
to do everything else (sit, stay down etc etc).

Unwanted behaviours are addressed as they occur.
If you understand what you are trying to achieve and
are prepared to work with it you can get great results.

Paul

===============================

> From: Don Fitz [mailto:donfit...@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, 28 February 2003 11:53 a.m.
> To: Ama...@DCFWatch.com; paulbou...@clear.net.nz
> Subject: Jerry Howe
> Hi,
> Jerry uses your email in his posts and I was wondering
> what you have to say of his training methods.

From: "Paul Bousie" <paulbou...@clear.net.nz>
To: "'Don Fitz'" <donfit...@hotmail.com>; <Ama...@DCFWatch.com>
Cc: <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 5:45 AM
Subject: RE: Jerry Howe

If you have read the newsgroup posts then you must
already have a good idea about what I think.

His methods are the best I have come across. They
aren't a quick fix but an entire training concept so if
you aren't in for the long haul then don't bother. If
you go his way then you have to forget all the other
gibberish that other people spew, you have to believe
in what you are doing, then and only then will you get
the results.

You can't combine his methods with other training
methods, not until you understand what you are
trying to achieve, and even then I have only ever
combined about 2 other trainers ideas and even
then just a snip of what they suggest which works
in parallel with the Wits End concept.

His methods make you as the trainer completely
responsible for your actions, his methods make
you think and work out your own solutions for
any given situation, the default (the recall) is
always there to get things under control again.

His ideas and concepts teach you to work with
the dog, to develop a team and a willingness to
work together which is surely the best way to be.
His methods don't use force or intimidation but
they do totally emphasize the absolute importance
of pack (family pack) structure, without that you
can achieve almost nothing.

If you are wondering how a dog can be trained
without any negativity the answer lies in the recall,
anytime your dog doesn't follow through with a
request you call him / her to you, since the recall
is the first thing taught and it is taught in such a
way it becomes a reflex the dog always returns
to you, it is a subordinate position for the dog and
we release it by asking for a "heel" which is an
"equal" position.

His methods are very good, his understanding of
dogs is excellent, I recommend his methods.
Paul Bousie

==============================



"Paul B" <pand...@zfree.co.nz> wrote in message

news:3c2ae204@clear.net.nz...

Bollocks, the manual has no dangerous suggestions at
all, people who find the manual useful are those that
don't need to control a dog to satisfy their own ego
but simply want a well behaved dog that is easy to
live with. I would suggest the people who follow the
advice in his manual are people who have already
tried other inefficient methods and are fed up with
the poor results.

The more I think about the methods he suggests the
more sense it makes, the biggest problem is people
believe they have to be in control of the dog, tell it
whats right and wrong, dogs don't understand
our values and I don't believe they are capable of
understanding them either, so to train them we use
methods they understand. That means abstract
training, doing sometimes what appears to
almost be the opposite of what makes sense to us.

If you are purely result orientated then you will not
find Jerry's manual much use, if you love your dogs
and love to work WITH them then his manual is
your dream come true. Distraction and praise works
with any dog, when you sit back and really think about
it, it's very obvious why.

When a dog is properly distracted (and praised) of a
particular behaviour then that behaviour very quickly
becomes unfulfilling so the dog will no longer have any
interest in pursuing it, whether we are about or not,
thats the key to stopping garbage can raids and food
stealing etc etc, no force, no bad dog, just distracting it
in an appropriate manner that it no longer wishes to
pursue that behaviour.

Better than hiding the garbage can eh?

Paul
---------------


From: AIMEE (countrygirl0...@yahoo.com)
Subject: House training and such...
Date: 2003-10-08 16:18:56 PST

Also, Axel LOVES the cat's litter box...He enjoys the
"snacks" he can find in there...I followed TPW's methods
by alternating sounds and praising him while or before
he sticks his nose in it, and today, he's been going into
the room with the cat box and barking. That's because
he's thinking about getting into the box, but he knows he
shouldn't.

Thank you, Jerry, for all you help. You've been a
blessing to all of us.

AIMEE

--------------

So, we PRAISE the barking and after a while we
can extinguish the barking. We don't want to
repress him by doing too much in one day. IOW
the barking is an anxiety relief / transfer
mechanism. It's harmless so long as it's only
temporary and ignoring it will help the dog
get over his desire to eat it. Unless the
temporary noise is gonna be a problem, then
you could extinguish the barking right away
but if you can tolerate it just a litte whiel
you can tackle that a little later and it'll
go away just like the original behavior without
repressin the dog <{): ~ ) >


Showdogbark
2006-05-28 17:07:55 EST
<Now if he would just stop being such an abusive asshole, he might gain
a
whit of credibility.
Come to think of it, someone who is that free with the abuse via email
is
probably a dog abuser in real life. >
--

<William Robb >

Hi William,
Jerry is not a dog abuser. I have been to his home. He has four dogs
all of which he took in as rescue if I remember correctly. He takes
good care of them along with his wife Barbara and they are fed a
nutritious diet.
He is passionate about non-violent ways of behaving with our animal
companions. In his manual if you read it, he has has methods to train
dogs that work. Why assume he abuses animals when you have not met him.
In his posts he is specific about his concern to eradicate chocking
dogs and using power over to supposedly train them. To me this shows a
lack of abuse. To freely give a method away and add a phone number if
there are any problems understanding the methods is generous and
compassionate.
His ideas challenge the status quo.
Show Dog Bark


T*@HotMail.Com
2006-05-29 16:30:21 EST
HOWEDY matty you pathetic miserable lyin dog abusing punk
thug coward active acute chronic long term incurable mental
case and illegal doggy day care FRAUD and SCAM ARTIST,

Rocky wrote:
> "showdogbark" <jotnaringin@yahoo.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > Perhaps that may be his point in his
> > passion to help dogs he may be trying to expose the case
> > histories of the people on the forum to show that
> > underneath the caring about dogs lie case histories of
> > abuse. This is my guess only.
>
> Post proof of abuse or retract.

Oh? You mean LIKE THIS, matty?:

"I wouldn't do anything because Friday would
correct him more appropriately than I ever
could. I'd separate them or watch them closely.
If I can catch them at it before the behaviour
itself becomes rewarding, I use my marker word.
If I can catch them even earlier (when the intent
to commit misbehaviour is forming in their evil
minds), distraction works. The latter works
better than the former when it comes to their
protecting me from the mailman. Management,
redirection, distraction, aversives, Paula's
socks, combinations thereof - it's all good,"
matt. Rocky's my epileptic dog.

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?

> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.

> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>

From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST

Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.

Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

---------------

Sometimes my "voice of god" startles human
and dog, especially when the human didn't
see the inappropriate behaviour. --Matt.
Rocky's a Dog.

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day

Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.

Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14

B*.@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<*.@bellsouth.net>:

> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.

Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.

Why did you blow it?

--Matt

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????

Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?

I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918australianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.

> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"dallygirl" <kwickwick@hotmail.com> said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> choke chains are outdated and barbaric in many cases
> causing more harm than good.

Back at you with flat buckle collars. These are an
incredibly abused training tool, what with the number
of handlers I see pulling back and jerking on the leash
with both hands.

It's a good thing that most of us are here because of dogs'
well-being and not an agenda.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!

"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction" --Janet Boss

"Reliable Punishment Cycles, Different Thresholds To Pain
And Punishment, High Tolerance For Correction, Escalation
Of Correction To A Level Where The Dog Yelps When You Punish
Him, Thus Making The Experience One Which The Dog Will Want
To Avoid In The Future," grant teeboon, RAAF.

"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack
Wouldn't Have Done It If He Thought Solo Couldn't
Take It. I Still Crate Him Because Otherwise I Fear
He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.

captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A
ResoundingSound Distraction: "When You Chuck The Dog
The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To The Ears And
Give A Popping Sound To The Dog."

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

On 6 Feb 2006 17:41:08 GMT, Mary Healey <mhhea...@iastate.edu>,
clicked their heels and said:

> Does that include tone of voice? Some tools are easier
> to ban than others.

yes - screaming banshees are told to shut up! And I
always have to remind spouses that they may NOT do the
"honey - you're supposed to be doing it like THIS"......
--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album

lying frosty dahl, oakhill kennels wrote:
Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield
the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them
more sharply

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and
the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist!
Eventually, the dog will give in

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
efforts to escaping the ear pinch

You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell
instead of your thumb even get a studded collar
and pinch the ear against that

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so
urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.

CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready
Right Hand, As it catches on, try using the stick
and no ear pinch.

When the dog is digging out to beat the stick
and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch,
you are finished

If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin,
say "No! Hold!"

(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps because
the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided
it isn't worth it)" lying frosty dahl.

"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.

terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."

"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.

"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.

THAT'S sumpthin to be PR-HOWED abHOWET, eh matty?

Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what would
> > be the point? Where I come from, choking is choking.
> > It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
Deltones wrote:
>
> Rocky wrote:
>
> > "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com>
>
> > > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > > is choking. It's never limited.

Not so in PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING, Deltones.

> > So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> > Thank you for your contribution.
> > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

Looks like you've pushed the mental cases over the edge again...

> Well, I think you carefully avoided quoting the last part of my post.
> You know the one about a bunch of little Colonel Parker doing Elvis's
> out of their dogs? Oh right, limited choking is not abuse, and pumping
> dogs full of drugs to make them behave ain't either in your world huh?
> For the benefit of our gentle readers, here's the part you forgot to
> quote:
?
> Oh, what the hell. Check out a thread started around Nov 23 called
> "Help with a Nuerotic Hound..." where I wonder if you guys are talking
> about dogs or Woody Allen's pharmacy. I'll stick with praises and noise
> distraction to train my dog, thank you.
>
> ----------

"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828.07753.00000001@mb-m18.aol.com...

> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss
>
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...

> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916.10096.00001938@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.

An INSENSITIVE DOG???

> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to
it. When he barks, use the line for a correction.-
if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar," Lynn K.

"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.

<except when it is>

"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs. It's a safety
necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.

<except when it is>

"So what? Whoever said that it's right to
always not confront? We sure can try, but
a dog who knows a command and growls when
given it is certainly being confrontational".
You can't simply walk away and pretend it
didn't happen or leave it for later work in
every situation." Lynn K.

--------------------

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.

----------------

From: "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com>
Date: 2 Dec 2005 10:55:41 -0800
Subject: Re: In defense of Jerry Howe's methods

Mary Healey wrote:
> I'm still asking for 5 original posts from people here at least 5
> years to support your initial contention (NOT HURTING DOGS TO TRAIN

THEM). You're 0 for 2, so far.

That's 2 in 2 as far as I'm concerned but hey, if you insist. I'm
really curious to see what will be the justification this time. So far
we have:

Limited choking? Hey, it's limited, As
Neo would say: Woah, there is no choke.

Dogs pumped full of prozac? Hey, they're trippin
man. Remember Woodstock. Euh.... Woodwhat?

E-Collar? I'm sure some of you will come up with: But my
dog look so pretty with an electrified perm. Swoooon.

So on with the fun. Taken from the "Collars" thread,
started by Perry Templeton June 20 2005

Denis
------------

On 26 Jun 2005 10:52:42 -0700, lucyaa...@claque.net, wrote:

> What does the "choke" in the "choke chain" stand for, then?
> Lucy

one reason I call them slip collars. Their is a correction involved,
and while it causes momentary discomfort, does not choke the dog.
OTOH, it is CAPABLE fo being used to do that, should a situation
warrant it.
--
Janet B
----------

And here's another one from the same author,
taken from the same thread.

---------

167. Janet B
Jun 21, 12:03 pm show options
On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:40:11 +0100, "Alison"

<*.@XYZallofus2.fsnet.co.uk>, wrote:
> I'm just wondering why you had to use choke chains to train"your
> dogs especially as they are so small.

Oh geez - let's see - how many JRTs act like alligators at the end of
a leash? I personally prefer prong collars.

----------

Let's go for the hat trick with the same author, taken from the same
thread:

----------

141. Janet B
Jun 27, 10:01 pm

I don't use choke chains. Not quite true - I use a jeweler's hex link

on Franklin at times - it's puuuuuurty. I know the "sound" thing
and all, and when training a dog in a non-group setting, that sound
may be a factor, but I think it fails in the context of a group class.

So, I prefer the better fitting nylon slip collars, and very often,
pinch collars (small link unless it's a freaky dog, then they need
the milder medium link).

But I use e-collars too. With one of my dogs and with some clients.
For circumstances where a physical collar and leash is not the right
answer. I'm sure Lucy has no clue what THAT means!
--
Janet B
----------

HOWEDY janet,

Looks like you and your pals have gone totally INSANE again:

Janet B wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 14:44:14 -0500, Janet B
> <j...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com>, clicked their heels and said:
> > Since you quoted me repeatedly, where does it say I beat dogs, choke
> > dogs, scream at dogs, etc? Thanks for your clarification.
.
> responding to my own post, I had to go back and look at the original
> post, to remind myself what "we" are all accused of doing:
>
> "screaming, choking, shocking, pinching, beating the living crap
> out of your dogs"
>
> Scream? no
>
> Choke? no
>
> Shock? e-collars are a lot more sophisticated than that
>
> Pinch? if you want to classify a momentary discomfort by a prong
> collar, go ahead, but unless you have first hand experience with
> one, your opinion means nothing
>
> Beat the living crap out of? hardly - no hitting exists

"Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap,"
professora gingold.

"BethF" <b...@NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.com>
wrote in message
news:v4r8kkfr257e1a@corp.supernews.com...

Kyle, FWIW, i thought it was pretty funny,
and i often call my little dog the turd, because
he is one. Some folks think its HORRRIBLE i
would insult my dog like that so i guess its just a
matter of personality.

Kyle, the best way to teach him to stay away is to
step on him once. Seriously.

"Whatever Motivates The Dog, But I Daresay Most
Of The Dogs I Have In Classes Just Aren't That
Interested In Praise."

"BethF" <d...@alaska.com> wrote in message
news:uohnj3r4a4e85e@corp.supernews.com...

Maybe that's what we should do - hold back the dobie
girl so that Izzy can put Simon in his place.

"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness," mustang sally.

"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.

This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.

Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
Subject: Re: shock collars

Sally Hennessey <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63h8ekqiforibadrff2@4ax.com...

Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-
righteous, this post shows and absence of knowledge
in the differences in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps
a lack of ability to perceive same.

The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to
whom corrections and discomfort, even pain, were
unimportant does not mean that such dogs do not exist.

What it means is that you don't know as much about
dogs as you think you do, and you surely don't know
a damn thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.

I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with
one of her housemates; that dog had no fear or
anything, and pain incurred during a fight meant
nothing to her.

I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that
you, Alison, continue to say things to people such as
what you said to Theresa about causing her dog to
suffer (at least I guess that's what you meant by
"you cause your dog suffers" - - must be the King's
English you guys talk about over there) means that
you are an ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person
who is not worth further notice.

Sally Hennessey

"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv128jnumgmb2m27opr@4ax.com...

Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.

I'm starting to see some similarities here.

Sally Hennessey

"Janet Boss offered a pat on the back, commenting that
ultimately it wasn't Kate's decision. Whose was it? I asked.
Why, it was Teena's, averred Janet.

Janet was in an exculpatory frame of mind because she
contributed to this travesty herself, by advising Kate to
repeat the aggression trigger (grooming) on a daily basis.

It's all in the archives.

Now these two are spouting off about what kind of e-collars
they like to use on their dogs. Well, I've got an AC Delco
model that would be just right for Janet or Kate. BZZZZzzt!
I'd have to find it though, and I can't remember if I left
it in my underground bunker or the crawlspace under my
house," Charlie.

Here's janet's PARTNER:

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

sinofabitch writes:
> > What I have said- repeatedly - is that he
> > took posts from two different people,
> > took pieces of them out of context,

Of curse. QUOTED. You wanna see it in context?

> > cobbled them together,

No. There was WON DIRECT QUOTE.

> > then added his own words:

"Neatly," and "Smartly."

> > and a fake signature.

"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.

> > Which is exactly what he did.

INDEEDY. That's HOWE COME you deny it.

> > The actual quote is misleading

That so?

> > when taken out of context,

We'd been talkin abHOWET beatin the dog with a shoe...

> > and Jerry's faked "quote"

The WON sinofabitch totally DENIES.

> > is downright meaningless.

Only if you're a MENTAL CASE.

Here's Jerry's version

"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.

Here's yours:

"I dropped the leash, threw my
right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
grabbed her opposite foot with my
left hand, rolled her on her side,
leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
nipped her ear.
--Sara Sionnach

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

See?

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "CourteHOWES Canine."

"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?

When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first time,
spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth and walk
away. The dog won't be too thrilled with this but just
ignore him and continue your normal behavior."
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"CourteHOWES Canines"

"Marshall Dermer" <der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:a3h5qn$mra$1@uwm.edu...

> Di,
> I don't believe you mentioned a particular kind of
> training. If you are interested in training retrieval
> behavior than do consider our own Amy Dahl's:
> The 10-Minute Retriever : How to Make a Well-
> Mannered, Obedient and Enthusiastic Gun Dog
> in 10 Minutes a Day by John I. Dahl, Amy Dahl

You failed to mention your pals the dahls are
proven liars and dog abusers, professor "SCRUFF SHAKE:"

"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog
I Do Not Believe There Is A Single Circumstance
Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything But
Destructive," "I don't see why anyone would want
to choke or beat a dog, or how any trainer could
possibly get a good working dog by making them
unhapper, fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying
frosty dahl.

> just $17.95 at Amazon.com.
> (Also, it is best to killfile posts from the few
> regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
> ill-mannered, or just plain ill.)
> --Marshall

amy lying frosty dahl continues:

"On the other extreme, the really ard dogs
we have trained require much more frequent
and heavy application of pressure (PAIN j.h.)
to get the job done,

This is continued resistance to your increasing
authority, and the job is not done until it is overcome

Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield
the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them
more sharply

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and
the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist!
Eventually, the dog will give in

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
efforts to escaping the ear pinch

You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell
instead of your thumb even get a studded collar
and pinch the ear against that

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so
urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.

CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready
Right Hand, As it catches on, try using the stick
and no ear pinch.

When the dog is digging out to beat the stick
and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch,
you are finished

If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin,
say "No! Hold!"

(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps because
the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided
it isn't worth it)" lying frosty dahl.

"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.

terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."

lying frosty dahl sez she doesn't twist:

"None of my posts, prior to or subsequent to
Jerry Howe's attacks, encourage anyone to
twist ears, beat dogs, confront, intimidate,
frighten, or any of the crap he constantly
attributes to me," lying frosty dahl.

BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!

"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.

Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies
HURT all their lives like HOWE HOWER dog
lovers PREFER to HURT THEIR DOGS?

"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."

The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.

We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...

Sez on our FAQ'S pages at K9 Web you should
knee the dog in the chest, step on its toes, throw
him down by his ears and climb all over it like a
raped ape growling into his throat and bite IT on
his ears, or leash pop it on a pronged spiked pinch
choke collar or pop him in the snout with the heel
of your palm.

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This (Destructive Separation
Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite A Few
Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME
The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer, 33
Years Experience.

You DO remember KILLFILING MARILYN for
her coment above regarding her success with
The Puppy Wizard's Surrogate Toy Separation
Anxiety / Bed Time Calming / Submissive
Urination Technique (STSA/BTC/SUT)?

Perhaps you likeWIZE recall a pediatrician, Dr. Z,
who commented that his bed time calming technique
was quite similar?

> > You're scary Marilyn.
> > Marilyn must be quite a disturbed individual.
> > I feel very sorry for her and her family.

"His Amazing Progress Almost Makes Me Cry.
Your Method Takes Positive Training To The
Next Level And Should Really Be Used By All
Trainers Who Call Themselves Trainers. Thank
You For Helping Me Save His Life," Kay Pierce,
Professional Trainer, 30 Years Experience.

"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack
Wouldn't Have Done It If He Thought Solo Couldn't
Take It. I Still Crate Him Because Otherwise I Fear
He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "CourteHOWES Canine."

"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?

When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first time,
spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth and walk
away. The dog won't be too thrilled with this but just
ignore him and continue your normal behavior."
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"CourteHOWES Canines"

We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?

> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.

> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>

From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST

Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.

Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

---------------

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day

Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.

Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's

just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14

B*.@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<*.@bellsouth.net>:

> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.

Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.

Why did you blow it?

--Matt

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????

Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?

I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918australianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.

> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.


"dallygirl" <kwickwick@hotmail.com> said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> choke chains are outdated and barbaric in many cases
> causing more harm than good.

Back at you with flat buckle collars. These are an
incredibly abused training tool, what with the number
of handlers I see pulling back and jerking on the leash
with both hands.

It's a good thing that most of us are here because of dogs'
well-being and not an agenda.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!


"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will
Seem Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe.
This Is A Normal Reaction The First Few Times
It Happens, But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."

"Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a
helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.
Tougher, less tractable dogs may require
you to progress to striking them more
sharply," lying frosty dahl, ethical breeder,
expert trainer.

"On the other extreme, the really hard dogs
we have trained require much more
frequent and heavy application of pressure
(PAIN j.h.) to get the job done,

This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome

"You can press the dog's ear with a
shotshell instead of your thumb even
get a studded collar and pinch the ear
against that Make the dog's need to stop
the pinching so urgent that resisting your
will fades in importance.

CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever
Ready Right Hand, As it catches on, try
using the stick and no ear pinch.

When the dog is digging out to beat the
stick and seems totally reliable without
any ear pinch, you are finished

This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome"

If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly
under the chin, say "No! Hold!"

(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps
because the ear is getting tender, or the
dog has decided it isn't worth it)" lying
frosty dahl.

You think a EXXXPERT trainer got to BEAT
a HUNTIN dog to MAKE IT HUNT?

"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.

Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies HURT all
their lives like HOWE HOWER dog lovers PREFER to
HURT THEIR DOGS?

"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."

The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.

We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL.

That's INSANE. Ain't it.

"When you get bagged for lying you're MARKED
FOR LIFE," The Puppy Wizard's DADDY <{); ~ ) >

BWEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?

> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.

> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>

From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST

Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.

Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

---------------

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day

Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.

Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's

just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14

B*.@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<*.@bellsouth.net>:

> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.

Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.

Why did you blow it?

--Matt

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????

Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?

I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918australianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.

> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

From: Mark Shaw (m...@bangnetcom.com)
Subject: Re: Fido-Shock
Date: 2002-04-10 14:12:18 PST

In article <gWLs8.203228$af7.101030@rwcrn­­­sc53>,

"Coleman Brumley" <clbrum...@home.com> wrote:
> Has anyone had experience with this product (Fido-
> Shock). If so, what model number, voltage, etc.?

If you're talking about the pet-grade hotwire system,
I have one. It's to keep boarded dogs out of my flowers.

> I have a 1.5 year St Bernard who is scaling (not clearing --
> more like falling over) our 4 foot fence to visit with owners
> walking their dogs. I thought of raising the fence a foot or
> so, but don't think that'll solve the problem. I've tried
> watching her outside, and give a stern "NO" when she
> props on the fence for a peek over it. No avail.
> I've heard this product works after just a couple of tries.

I take it you're considering running the wire across the top
of the fence? I don't think I'd recommend that, although it
may be worth a try. Watch closely -- the one case where I saw
a hotwire used in this fashion caused the dog undue stress and
frustration, and he tried even harder to get over the fence.
So be prepared to take it down right away.

That was a Dane, though. With a Saint things might be
different.
--
Mark Shaw

culprit's dogs MURDERED her kat for
standin behind their SHOCK FENCE
just like HOWE liea's dog attacked
her only friend and tried to attack two
little kids for standin in her SHOCK ZONE:

From: culprit (culp...@flashmail.com)
Subject: Re: Video clip......."Nero" practicing
bark alert, while walking backwards
Date: 2004-06-05 18:53:50 PST

"micha el" <spam_yurs...@spamyourmamma.co­­­m>
wrote in message news:yIydnZpPsIzg6l_d4p2dnA@comcast.com...

> Anyway, contrary to your PR, this is what
> it felt like to me when I got shocked by
> Hope's collar.
> It felt like a bomb going off in my
> hand and forearm.

------------------------------­­­--

"Tricia9999" <tricia9...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021117101433.10365.00000067@mb-cg.aol.com...

>> how effective are these electronic fences in
>> keeping a dog on a property????

Some run through it. Others get shocked and become
too scared to go out in the yard anymore.

Just heard of a guy that has to rehome his dog,
because the dog got caught right in the path of
the shock and will now not go near his person,
won't go outside.

Just hides under a desk in the house.

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?

> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.

> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>

From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST

Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.

Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

---------------

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day

Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.

Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's

just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14

B*.@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<*.@bellsouth.net>:

> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.

Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.

Why did you blow it?

--Matt

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????

Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?

I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918australianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.

> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHHAAAA!!!

"I'd call the SHOCK fence effective and safe.
Humane is one of those hot words that people
can debate all day so I won't touch that one.
There are people who would call a regular chain
link fence inhumane," liea altshuller.

"I know this is a hard subject to bring up without
starting the whole cruelty thread again so I'll
state my opinion once and won't defend it further:
any method can be cruel for some dogs.

Even the slightest punishment was wrong for Cubbe at
the beginning, but we've come a long way since then.

She trusts us now as I mentioned in a recent post.

Point is, she's been rewarded for coming, but she's
never been punished, even in the mildest way, for
not coming.

Is it time for that?

What might I look for to tell?"

"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshu...@comcast.net>
wrote in message news:McYnb.45145$ao4.106231@attbi_s51...

After talking with the vet yesterday and watching
Cubbe all day today, I'm convinced that the shaking
is behavioral, not physical. Naturally I'll continue
keeping an eye on her, but when I add everything
up, I don't see symptoms of anything neurological--
and the vet agrees.
--Lia

"Things are beginning to get much worse day
by day and the vets seem unable to help.
http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorR­­­ufusMed.WMV
http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorR­­­ufusSmall.WMV"

THAT'S AN OCD. His owner CAUSED IT by
MISHANDLING and ABUSING his dog according
to the BEST advice of HOWER Gang Of Lying
Dog Abusing Punk Thug Cowards And ACTIVE
LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES and
ASYLUM ESCAPEES.

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?

> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.

> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>

From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST

Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.

Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

---------------

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day

Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.

Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's

just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14

B*.@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<*.@bellsouth.net>:

> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.

Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.

Why did you blow it?

--Matt

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????

Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?

I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918australianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.

> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHHAAAA!!!

http://tinyurl.com/389al

In this video, the dog is constantly jerking his
head all around. I'm not SHORE why he's doing that.
If he's doing it because he is being shocked repeatedly
into getting onto that skateboard, then it is my
opinion that Fred Hassen is a dog abuser in the
extreme. As would anyone be, no matter how much
"experience" they had shocking dogs, nor how
nationally "respected" they are/were.

If, HOWEver, the dog is jerking his head all around
because he is happy and for no other reason, well,
then, never mind. I've just never seen this kind of
behavior from a dog before, so maybe Fred can
explain what would cause a dog to move his head
like that.

Here's a other:
http://tinyurl.com/2v9oh

"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828.07753.00000001@mb-m18.aol.com...

> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss
>
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...

> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916.10096.00001938@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.

An INSENSITIVE DOG???

> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
>
>
On 6 Feb 2006 01:19:16 -0800,
"dallygirl" <kwickwick@hotmail.com>, clicked their heels and said:

> janet, yes unfortunatly i have. i joined a mother and daughter duo
> training group and i am still kicking my arse over it :( i have since
> learnt (and anyone new to dogs please take note!) they have no
> qualifications only their own experience.

What exactly does that mean?

> its because of them i am busting a gut to get qualified and to join the apdt.

"credentials" only mean something if the issuing organization is
recognized as THE authority. The American Medical Association, The
American Bar Association - things like that. There is no "whatever"
dog association that licenses dog trainers.

> i saw a massive negative difference in my dogs behaviour when on the
> lead and i didnt yank or pull i never would no matter what the
> 'trainers' said.

What exactly were you doing with the lead that caused a negative
behavior? Do you not use a lead when training? Not on city streets?

> i guess i was as distressed as my dog.

I'm pretty sure you are the only one who was distressed and you
transmitted that to your dog.

> i took a dog out of this real nasty hell hole. the lady had set her
> self up as a rescue then had about 20 dogs running free in her back
> garden and it broke down to chaos.i took out a young lab female who
> was so scared she wouldnt climb into my car and i wasnt going to force
> her so i just sat next to her but on my tail gate. the 'rescue' woman
> growled and grabbed the dog at the back of the neck and a lump of flesh
> at the rump and threw her into my car.

What on earth does that have to do with properly using a variety of
training tools? So far, you've equated using choke collars with
people who enjoy drop-kicking dogs.

>with ppl such as this working with dogs i want to show a 'better way'.
>i don't refer to them when i'm talking to the person on the street as
>'tools of horror' but i do give them some tips on a nicer way.

When 150# Cujo is trying to eat the dog net door,
what "nicer way" do you employ?

> the thing is, you put one of those around your neck, be it choke
> prong or electric and then tell me you want to keep using them.

My neck is very different from a dog's neck. I have no problem with a
choke or prong on my neck - I would respond accordingly. As far as
electric, I have had a ton of PT at times, and the electricity has
been a godsend.

>ok i am bent over ~ no pointy toes please, but form an orderly line to
>kick my arse..............i am braced :)

Nope - don't believe in kicking. But I do use a variety of collars
when training dogs. I'm not a big fan of CHAIN chokes, because I
don't find them easy to fit properly. I prefer nylon slip collars in
general, will never connect a leash to a buckle ID collar, and find
prong collars to be very, very useful training tools.

Rudy is going to start learning the e-collar this week.
I'm sure you'll NOT hear screams from across the pond.

--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album


"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?

> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.

> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>

From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST

Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.

Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

---------------

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day

Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.

Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's

just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14

B*.@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<*.@bellsouth.net>:

> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.

Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.

Why did you blow it?

--Matt

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????

Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?

I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918australianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.

> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

THAT'S sumpthin to be PR-HOWED abHOWET, eh matty?

Paxil Princess psychoclown wrote:

"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
things is something you twisted out of
context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."

"Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them more
sharply.

REPEAT, VARYING HOW HARD YOU HIT THE DOG.

Now you are ready to progress to what most people think of
as force-fetching: the ear pinch.

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so urgent that
resisting your will fades in importance.

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to
escaping the ear pinch even get a studded collar and pinch
the ear against that if the dog still does not open its mouth,
get out the shotshell.

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the
collar, even the buckle on the collar.

Persist! Eventually, the dog will give in

With your hand on the collar and ear, say, 'fetch.'

Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick.

Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy.
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell instead of your
thumb; Say 'fetch' while pressing the dummy against its lips
and pinching its ear," lying frosty dahl.

>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.

Should I have refused to groom them?

Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."

Lynn K.

"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:

"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20

g*.@my-deja.com wrote:
> How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.

Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.

"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.

Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."

8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).

If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.

This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."

>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
<news:04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews>...

Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
quotes are true.
In the posts below you take responsibility for
making those calls.

In your post above, you state you do not
make those calls.

Which one is it?

WORDS OF WISDOM
From Our Own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg Of Lithium And 50 mg Of Zoloft
EVERY DAY
For Twenty Years

I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-
depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50
mg of Zoloft every day.

I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to
learn more, while happily sharing pertinent
information I have learned. But if I were ever
to post such sh*t, I would hope that every other
reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we
earn the right to participate in by observing
the easily understood rules and contributing
to in constructive ways."

Lynn K.

------------------------------­­­-----------

"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."

Lynn K.
------------------------------­­­-----------

LYNN K. and LOIS E, and a BiLateral, BiPolar
conversation on Mental problems. LYNN AND LOIS
Almost 50 years on mental illness medications combined

------------------------------­­­-----------

> But I think what Lois was referring to was
> the fact that Darlene actually stated at
> some point that she was bipolar--and, IIRC,
> that meds did not work for her--so she was
> prone to major-league ups and downs and sudden
> enthusiasms..

"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."

Lynn K.
------------------------------­­­-----------

LYNN K. and the UNQUIET MIND

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/03

BoxHill wrote:
> I know I am totally off topic here, but have
> you read "The Unquiet Mind"?

Yeah. It's interesting, but kind of
watered down for the mass market, if
you know what I mean. There's really
quite a lot of good work out there and
decent research. Thank God.

Lynn K.
------------------------------­­­---------

MOTHER AND CHILD REUNION "KUCKOO!! CUCKOO!!!"

MOTHER (LOIS E.) 22 YEARS on TRICYCLICS, DAUGHTER BIPOLAR...

YOU DO THE MATH

"What's really terrific, is now days you can say proudly,
'I take anti-depressives'"

From: Gary & lois Edwards (g...@bmi.net)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/02

BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS

"I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics
for about 22 years. Been there, done that, have
the t-shirt to prove it. What's really terrific,
is now days you can say proudly,

"I take anti-depressives". Back when I started
taking them it was seen as something shameful.
If you cut your leg off, and were lying there with
a bleeding stump, you'd never let the word
depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
"You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have
any pain meds.....you could become addicted."

The good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt who's
father locked her in her room back in the twenties
because she was simple. A shame that medication
probably would have helped her live a normal life.

No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's
personality, she has a way of making grandiose
plans when at the top of her manic cycle....as
does my daughter. I wasn't saying that anyone
with problems could be counted on to be
irresponsible."

Lois E.
------------------------------­­­-------

"It was kind of funny, in an absurd way. The rabbit
was completely still, eyes open and glazed, dried
blood in his ears and mouth, with his back legs
stiffening quickly.

It was her pet rabbit, not a wild bunny, so
that made it much harder for her.

And he was killed by bichons.

Her dogs had torn it apart. My one student who had
shown up (another weird thing about the night) and I
had to continuously check for heart and bowel sounds
for her, until she could accept that the rabbit was dead.

(The rigor mortis in his back legs she attributed to "pain").

Full moon.

Canine Action Dog Trainer
http://www.canineaction.com

> Then she mentioned the names of her dogs,
> and I immediately remembered them.

YOUR STUDENT, leah. Like that RECENT GRADUATE
STUDENT Rottie who'd been in your SOCIALIZATION
classes since IT was ten weeks old who RECENTLY
MURDERED a little innocent DEAD DOG at the park.

> I will always remember the dogs.

Yeah. You and ed w of PET LOSS dot COIN.

From: dfrntdr...@aol.comMURK-OFF (Leah)
Date: 05 Nov 2002 00:55:40 GMT
Subject: Re: The Puppy Wizard

>"Mike E" m...@egbert.com wrote:
> My question was "Is there any legitimacy to the
> harshly-worded teachings of the Puppy Wizard?"

Any legitimate advice he gives is plagiarized from
other, more coherent sources.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. :}

PetsMart Pet Trainer
See My Furry Family At:

Leah Effexor for chronic depression, in denial
about being mentally ill. Has taken
several other mentally ill medications
before settling on effexor for her chronic
mental problems. Recenly changed to
another ANTI PSYCHOTIC prescription.

"I don't think Jerry intentionally lies. I think he twists
things around in his own mind until he actually believes
what he's saying."

Jerry is the only poster here who gives dangerous
advice. Google for spike and squirt. And let's not
forget the times he's told posters whose dogs have
medical problems that his halfwits-end program could
cure them.

PetsMart Pet Trainer
My Kids, My Students, My Life

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!


"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?

> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.

> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>

From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST

Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.

Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

---------------

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day

Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.

Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14

B*.@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<*.@bellsouth.net>:

> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.

Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.

Why did you blow it?

--Matt

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????

Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?

I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918australianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.

> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.


"dallygirl" <kwickwick@hotmail.com> said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> choke chains are outdated and barbaric in many cases
> causing more harm than good.

Back at you with flat buckle collars. These are an
incredibly abused training tool, what with the number
of handlers I see pulling back and jerking on the leash
with both hands.

It's a good thing that most of us are here because of dogs'
well-being and not an agenda.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAHAHAHHHHAHHHAAAAA!!!

NHOWE THAT'S SUMPTHIN TO BE PR-HOWED abHOWET, eh matty?

The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >

Damn The Descartean War of
"Nature Vs Nurture."
We Teach By HOWER Words
And Actions And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.

In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.

"The day may come when the rest of the animal creation
may acquire those rights
which never could have been withholden from them
but by the hand of tyranny.

The question is not can they REASON,
nor can they TALK,
but can they SUFFER?" -
- Jeremy Bentham

All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer

"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.

"If you've got them by the balls their
hearts and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >

Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
Animal Behavior Forensic
Sciences Research Laboratory,
BIOSOUND Scientific,
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092

The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{TFSAPW} ; - ) >

ANY QUESTIONS, DUMMIES?

,-._,-,
V)"(V
(_o_) Have a great day!
/ V)
(l l l) Your Puppy Wizard. <{YPW} ; ~ } >
oo-oo


T*@HotMail.Com
2006-05-29 17:12:08 EST
HOWEDY mike dufort aka pat aka unsurreality aka black vomit,

unsurreality_2005@yahoo.com wrote:
> showdogbark wrote:
> > Yup The Amazing Puppy Wizard knows how to train dogs, and this post has
> > much information on it to help understand some of the ideas behind his
> > methods.
> > The Puppy Wizard is kind enough to personally answer any dog problems a
> > person has if they still do not know how to help their dog with his
> > free manual. He will for free help with a dog or animal problem over
> > the phone. Any one who has not tried the free wit's end manual would
> > benefit from doing so and if they still need help there is his phone
> > number.
> > Very selfless and loyal like a dog to the animal world. I take this
> > time to thank Jerry for all his time he gives away for free to protect
> > animals. Hats off to you and dear Barbara for your promoting peace by
> > educating us on new attitudes toward dog training and animal behavior,
> > for it is true one can judge a nation on how it treats it's animals.
> > Show Dog Bark
>
> And you truly believe that highly praising and recommending
> a complete lunatic, liar, psychopath and convict to people
> is a *good* thing?

Evidently, yes, mikey. Here's YOU:

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "CourteHOWES Canine."

"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?

When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first time,
spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth and walk
away. The dog won't be too thrilled with this but just
ignore him and continue your normal behavior."
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"CourteHOWES Canines"

> You actually think it's a *GOOD* thing to promote someone
> who not only has no clue about dogs or humans, but also
> proves himself to be a complete crackpot the way he responds
> to EVERYONE in the most demeaning, rude and cruel ways?

You think HURTIN an INTIMIDATIN your dog is NORMAL, mikey?:

"spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth and walk
away. The dog won't be too thrilled with this but just
ignore him and continue your normal behavior."

> You also don't mind that he makes shit up about nearly
> EVERYONE calling them dog abusers, mental cases, and MURDERERS?

AND PROVES IT with YOUR OWN POSTED CASE HISTORIES, mikey.

> You condone this behavior?

Let's talk abHOWET YOUR "NORMAL BEHAVIOR", mikey?

HOWE COME you're a pathetic anonymHOWES lyin dog abusin coward?

BWEEEEAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

> You approve of this behavior? You PROMOTE this behavior?

Show Dog Bark learned THE HARD WAY not to do
what you and your mentally ill pals do to dogs,
mikey.

> You are worse than AssHowe is...trust YOUR dogs to him -

Yeah.

> I wouldn't let him near a dog or any living creature.

Then HOWE COME you offered to come over to BEAT UP The
Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard FOR NOT HURTIN DOGS,
mikey?

> Let me ask you this after your holier-than-thou statement
> of "for it is true one can judge a nation on how it treats
> it's animals." How about "for it is true one can judge a
> nation on how it treats it's fellow humans" ?

You mean by IDENTIFYING EXXXPOSING and DISCREDITIN
the PATHETIC LYIN DOG ABUSIN MENTAL CASES who teach
folks to HURT INTIMIDATE MUTILATE and MURDER innocent
defenseless dumb critters, like HOWE you do, mikey?

> Certainly you can see that Jerry Howe treats ALL
> humans like complete garbage.

No, not ALL humans, mikey, ONLY LYING DOG ABUSING MENTAL CASES
like you and the other dog abusers we got postin here abHOWETS.

> Is this the kind of person YOU trust?

Yeah. Ask Show Dog Bark if she TRUSTS YOU, mikey?

> THAT says a HELL of a LOT about YOU.

Tsk, tsk!

>From The Annals Of Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_
Research_Laboratory

Subject: "Pinch Collars DO NOT PINCH -
BLOCK The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) > [ninnyboy] [jerry]


HOWEDY unsurreality aka pat aka trollbasher aka
BLACK VOMIT aka mike duforth,

unsurreality_2...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > That's NICE TALK for a family news group, tommy. Perhaps
> > THAT'S HOWE COME you're an anonymHOWES COWARD, eh tommy?

> Don't EVEN bring up this "family newsgroup" crap

You're RIGHT mikey. After all, these ARE The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Forums <{) ; ~ ) >

> with you being the most vile and cruel "person" in here.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard IS "The World's CRUELEST Trainer".

> > Oh, bye the bye tommy, The Amazing Puppy Wizard DOES NOT
> > endorse the use of "treats" "bribes" or physical rewards on accHOWENT
> > of THAT'S HOWE COME dogs FAIL TO PERFORM and THAT'S HOWE
> > COME you gotta SHOCK CHOKE an MURDER them, tommy.

> Oh, bye the bye, AssHowe, no one cares what you do or do not "endorse."

NO PROBLEMO mike. The Amazing Puppy Wizard will just IDENTIFY
EXXXPOSE and DISCREDIT you as the punk thug coward lying dog
abusing coward you really are <{) : ~ ) >

> If you had some brain cells, we'd listen.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard doesn't Post to DOG and CHILD
abusers, mikey... HE Posts so NEW READERS will see YOU
as you REALLY ARE, mikey <{) : ~ ) >

> But seeing that you don't, no one cares, AssHowe.

NO PROBLEMO, mikey. Here's a quote from your "book":

From: Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences Research Laboratoryr
Date: 5 Feb 2006 22:39:36 -0800

Subject: Re: dog won't pee/poo outside

HOWEDY unsurreality aka pat aka trollbasher aka
BLACK VOMIT aka mike duforth,

unsurreality_2...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Quick advice:

"I'd tell you the actual name of the product but one large canine has
scratched it off. It's about 6 inches wide all around and red in
color (and looks like a big die). Check out your local pet store for
one - if it works with your dog, you'll love the antics he performs
to get the food (and you'll love the attention he devotes to the
toy); if he doesn't like it, get another one and use them for craps
(the dice game...not what comes out of your dog).

(Update - read this for a word of caution on this toy). Mike"

Even the TOY you "recommended" which you COULDN'T RECOMMEND
on accHOWENT of you don't know the name is dangerHOWES.

BWEEEAHAHAA!!!

> Ignore ANYTHING "The Amazing Puppy Wizard" says...

THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy Wizard QUOTES the
lyin dog abusing punk thug coward active acute chronic long term
incurable MENTAL CASES HE IDENTIFIES EXXXPOSES and
DISCREDITS.

Like booby maida, captain haggerty's PARTNER, for EXXXAMPLE:

"Great book. Better than many out there. I would for sure recommend
it for dog owners and especially would be dog owners. I'll be looking
forward to your next one. 'Cept don't give the next one away."

-Bob Maida - Dog Training/Problem Counseling since 1969
Herndon, Virginia

> If you'd like, you can download my free book Courteous Canines from
> http://home.adelphia.net/~nuxodom that has a chapter on this subject
> that may help you.

BWEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

> Best!

Here's you heelpin, mikey:

unsurreality_2...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Try this free book - it has helped me so much:
> Courteous Canines
> http://home.adelphia.net/~nuxodom

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."

"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?

When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first time,
spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth and walk
away. The dog won't be too thrilled with this but just
ignore him and continue your normal behavior."

--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"Courteous Canines"

It's SO much better than The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Garbage manual.

==========

You don't even WARN folks that it's YOU promotin
YOUR OWN "manual" warnin folks NOT TO CRINGE
when dog abusing mental cases HURT and INTIMIDATE
their dogs accordin to YOUR INSTRUCTIONS, mikey.

Here's you again mikey aka BLACK VOMIT:

HOWEDY black vomit aka unsurreality aka mike duforth,

BlackVomit wrote:
> On 24 Jan 2006 14:07:37 -0800, nfte...@gmail.com wrote:
> My miniature schnauzer (almost a year old now) has been
> generally apartment-friendly. Except for the occasional
> "accident", she really hasn't been too damaging to the
> facilities. Until now...

Hello nfteblj,

Just wanted to warn you in advance of this pervert,
newsgroup abuser and convicted felon who is trolling
the room. His alias is The Amazing Puppy Wizard
and real name is Jerry Howe.

Since you are new here, you just got hooked by replying
to this well known netloon and troll. Once he baits you
as he does with others, you became troll bait and he will flame
you and harass you through this newsgroup and in email.

PLEASE killfile this well known Jerry Howe aka
The Puppy Wizard who is using alot of alias in
here. He is a pathological liar, pervert and
bastard net kook.

All he does is slander and defame people in
here and never listens when told to stop. He knows
nothing about dog training or canine behavior.
He just makes this up, his nose gets longer and
longer like Pinocchio due to lying for years
and he has been abusively trolling this newsgroup
and others for years.

He keeps putting " XXX " in each word, which means
that he is so perverted and he is mentally ill and
off his medication and it is better that all of
you keep him in your killfiles for the time being.
Please avoid replying to messages from all his aliases.
The aliases to killfile are:

TRY THIS, mikey:

Thank You, Mike Duforth Author "Courteous Canine"

HOWEDY unsurreality aka pat aka trollbasher aka BLACK VOMIT aka mike
duforth,,

WOW! THANK YOU for all that GREAT ADVICE in your FREE BOOK!

After JUST WON DAY of jerking choking shocking and alphalpha
rolling HOWER new puppy dog an grHOWELING into ITS throat
an biting IT on ITS ears till IT PISSED an SHIT ITSELF my family
and I FINALLY GOT OVER IT an GOT RID of that pesky pupy
and WILL NOT try bringing in another stinkin biting shit machine
into THIS HOWES.

Your advice to put aversives on HOWER hands to break ITS bonding
efforts was WIZE beyond belief, HOWEver, it was a little SLOWER at
gettin the RESULTS we needed so we just GOT OVER IT an brought
IT to the P-HOWEND for THEM to DEAL WITH and we continued goin
abHOWET HOWER NORMAL behavior, as you advised.

Again, WE CANNOT THANK YOU ENOUGH~!

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!

The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >

From: unsurreality_2...@yahoo.com
Date: 22 Jan 2006 07:20:18 -0800

Subject: Re: blood platlettes [ninnyboy] [jerry] -
The Puppy Wizard's Syndrome <{) ; ~ ) >

> The Amazing Puppy Wizard is fixin to DROP the doGdameneD
> HAMMER on the ENTIRE INDUSTRY, unsurreality... <{) ; ~ ) >

Asshowe, you've been saying that for six fucking years and up to this
point you've only berated a small group of people n a god damned
NEWSGROUP, jackasshowe.

> > > The Amazing Puppy Wizard THRIVES in a world of shit.
> > No shit, Sherlock - all you say is shit.

> It's NO SURPRISE that HOWER DOG LOVER will FIGHT TO THE DEATH
> defending their alleged RIGHT to HURT INTIMDIATE an MURDER innocent
> defenseless dumb critters

NOT A SINGLE PERSON IN THIS GROUP HAS TRIED TO "DEFEND THEIR
RIGHT" to HURT, INTIMIDATE AND MUDER their dogs...EVER, jackasshowe.
You are completely delusional AND NEED MEDICAL HELP, jackasshowe!

And, I'd never call my dogs dumb - because they aren't, jackasshowe.
Your fantasy dogs may very well be DUMB, but that would be YOUR FAULT -
which says you don't know jack shit about dog training, jackasshowe.

> given THEIR POSTED CASE HISTORIES of
> CHRONIC DIS-EASE and REPEATED CANCERS in multiple dogs in the
> same HOWEshold, unsurreality. JUST LOOK at racetrack silly's and
> buglady's, janet boss's, Master Of Deception blankman and professor
> SCRUFF SHAKE dermer's, and matty's crittrer's DEATHLY CASE
> HISTORIES of CHRONIC DIS-EASES, SEIZURES and CANCERS <{) ; ~ ) >

Frankly, I don't give a shit, jackasshowe. You STILL HAVEN'T GIVEN
*ME* POSTS WHERE *I* ABUSE MY DOGS, jackasshowe!!! And you CAN'T
because I do NOT abuse my dogs yet YOU constantly ACUSE ME of it,
jackasshowe. On the other hand, I can CERTAINLY acuse YOU of being an
abusive, rotten, creep of a person, because you've provided the proof
in your tireless rants, jackasshowe.

-Pat

There AIN'T NO "pat", is there, mikey...

> > You mean to abuse his dog, matty?

> Yeah, I'm sure that's exactly what he means, jackass.

> > But of curse. matty is a liar and dog abusing mental
> > case like you and janet boss and the resof of you
> > punk thug cowards and MENTAL CASES who The Amazing
> > Puppy Wizard SEZ can't post here nomore <{); ~ ) >

> Look, AssHowe...when you accuse people of being animal
> abusers when they are not, you lose credibility.

> > Yeah. THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy Wizard
> > QUOTES them HURTIN dogs and LYIN abHOWET it, mikey.

> That's how come you are full of shit. I've been in Tae Kwon Do for
> 26 years, and when I mess up, Master Jae kicks me, and it hurts.

> However, because of his training me - even with force - I've become
> one of the best Tae Kwon Do experts. Of course you won't
understand,
> given your insanity, but believe it or not, a few corrections in
either
> human or canine makes a huge difference.

> Go ahead and flail away with the "jerking and shocking and choking"
> crap as usual...no one reads your bullshit anyways.

> Why not test the theory and write that you support terrorists too,
> like you did of the 9/11 terrorists flying into the twin towers?
HOWE
> about that? Give it a shot...no one gives a shit what you think.

> Go rehearse your crazy "a dog is a dog" and "a child is a child" and
> "a spouse is a spouse" at the kooks newsgroup - it has no meaning
> here as> it's all utter bullshit.

> Fucking blowhard imbecile...

BWEEEEEEAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAA!!!

Employment Opportunities -
Must Be Simian Or It's Legal Guardian -
BABOONS NEED NOT APPLY.

HOWEDY People,

The Amazing Puppy Wizard is EXXXPANDING
HIS FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
to include IN-HOWES visits from PROFESSIONAL
SIMIAN DOG TRAINERS for a small, satisfaction
money back guaranteed fee.

Employment opportunities EXXXIST for compassionate
apes and monkeys to be TRAINED FOR FREE with
the assistance of any ten year old HUMAN child under
the guidance of their FREE copy of The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual to SUCCESSFULLY handle and train clients dogs
to PERFECTION in WON IN-HOWES visit, JUST LIKE
HOWE The Amazing Puppy Wizard had done for forty
years PRYOR to comin to the WWW, thanks to V.P.
Al Gore.

THANK YOU, V.P. Al Gore!

Additionally, applicants MUST be willing to
legally change their name after successfully
completing training to "Major Haggerty".

The Amazing Puppy Wizard assures you there
will be NO PAIN FEAR FORCE or INTIMIDATION
inflicted on ANY dogs by your WORKIN simian in
the performance of his duties as a PROFESSIONAL
DOG TRAINER.

BABOONS NEED NOT APPLY.
----------------

HOWEver, after reviewing your resume mike aka pat aka unsurreality
aka BLACK VOMIT, The Amazing Puppy Wizard will make a EXXXCEPTION
for you and booby maida so long as you're willin to wear a gorilla suit
and
not speak while working and answer to the call name of captain arthur
haggerty, but ONLY if you PROMISE to FOLLOW the INSTRUCTIONS
in your own FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual <{) : ~ ) .

The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >

("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
(((' (((-((('' ((((

|\ _.-'~~""'~`'~)
/, ~-,__,,,.'~ ,-;;--''
|,4) ./ ' ; ;/'
'-~~;'@ ( ; ;
_.--'' _.-_..' .;.'
(,_..----''' (,..--''

Meow

/\_/\
(='.'=)
(")_(")

/),,/)
( ' ; ') kiss me
(,,)-(,,)

/),,/)
(' ; ') kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)

/),,/)
( ; ' ) kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)

/),,/)
( ; ) kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)

/)
( * ) and KISS ME HERE!
(,,)-(,,)

|\ _,,,---,,_
/,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' Ahhh, THANK YOU!
'---''(_/--' `-'\_)


The Amazing Pussy Wizard <{@); ~ } >

<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>

Please DON'T BE The Amazing Pussy Wizard's PREY.

IT AIN'T PRETTY.

<(@}; ~ } >


H*@hotmail.com
2006-05-29 18:36:09 EST
HOWEDY racetrack silly you miserable pathetic lyin dog murderin mental
case,

sighthounds & siberians wrote:
> On 29 May 2006 11:42:41 -0700, "showdogbark" <jotnaringin@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Perhaps that may be his point in his passion to help dogs he may be trying to
> > expose the case histories of the people on the forum to show that underneath
> > the caring about dogs lie case histories of abuse.

Like racetrack silly's "GreyHOWEND RESCUE" where she
MURDERED 67% of the dogs she RESCUED, racetrack silly?

> Thanks for finally clarifying who you are.

Show Dog Bark is a RESCUE GreyHOWEND, racetrack silly. LUCKY THING
she didn't end up in YOUR SHELTER or you'd of MURDERED HER TOO.

> Plonk.

Tsk, tsk, racetrack silly. That's kinda like buryin your head up your
arse.

> Mustang Sally

HOWEDY racetrack silly,

sighthounds & siberians wrote:
> On 19 Jul 2005 09:50:15 -0700, lucyaafar@claque.net wrote:
>
> > I'm very sorry for what you're going through with Tasha
>
> Your idol's not.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard LIVES to WATCH YOUR DEAD DOGS DIE
from STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASE and PSYCHOGENIC
SEIZURES aka The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME, racetrack silly,
you dog abusing mental case <{); ~ ) >

From: Sally Hennessey <greyho...@ncweb.com>
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 23:10:40 -0400

Subject: Re: Aggressive dogs at class and off-lead
sessions in puppy classes
On 8 Jun 2001 02:39:01 GMT, australian.sheph...
@cadvision.com (Rocky) wrote:

> Sally Hennessey <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in
> news:ld90it4e9djtc7li6ca85ggm5vhau7ashe@4ax.com:

>> Sally Hennessey (feeling badly for Blue, who had two
>> seizures last night and is very sore today)

> Geeze, Sally - that's too bad. How long does
> it take for Blue to recover fully?

Probably a couple of hours. He is what GH folks call a spook
(combination of genetics and the way GH pups are raised), and
unfortunately the worst part of his seizures is that he is so
afraid of them.

He tries to run away, which only gets him to a worse place
in the house to have them, and as soon as he starts to come
out of them he tries to get up and run.

Judging from his reactions, he is at least partially blind
when he first comes out of the seizures. It's very different
from our first epileptic GH, who (I know this will sound
ridiculous) didn't seem to be upset by his seizures.

Last night, he was "back" within 20 minutes or so, but still
wobbly and kind or wired - - you know the routine. He really
has a strange seizure pattern, or non-pattern, and I know his
vet doesn't think the seizures are going to stay this far apart.

But hey, he's just a vet!

Sally Hennessey

> That should tell you something.

Naaah. But THIS WILL, INDEEDY:

"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."

CANCERS and SEIZURES (which MOST of your own FEARFUL
DEATHLY ILL DOGS GOT) are STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE
DIS-EASES aka The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME <{); ~ ) >

THAT'S HOWE COME YOUR DOG HAD HER SEIZURE ON YOUR KITCHEN
TABLE. SHE WAS AFRAID YOU'D CATCH AND PUNISH HER <{); ~ ) >


From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 09:27:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Dog defecates during walks

Clearly, my stating the facts is not enough for Lucy;
perhaps she needs some sort of tangible proof, or perhaps
she thinks Jerry knows what I do better than I do.

In either case, she's proven herself incapable of reason,
and therefore a waste of time.

Mustang Sally

"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."

"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me. I volunteered
as assistant to the euthanasia tech at our local shelter
for a while, and I know a bit about overpopulation and
unwanted animals.

This however has nothing at all to do with responsible
breeders, because responsible breeders don't contribute
to that problem," Mustang Sally.

"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv128jnumgmb2m27opr@4ax.com...

Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.

I'm starting to see some similarities here.

Sally Hennessey

Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 13:23:46 +0100
Local: Mon, Apr 9 2001 5:23 am
Subject: Re: shock collars

Sally Hennessey <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63h8ekqiforibadrff2@4ax.com...

Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-righteous,
this post shows and absence of knowledge in the differences
in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps a lack of ability to perceive
same. The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to whom
corrections and discomfort, even pain, were unimportant does
not mean that such dogs do not exist.

What it means is that you don't know as much about dogs
as you think you do, and you surely don't know a damn
thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.

I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with one
of her housemates; that dog had no fear or anything,
and pain incurred during a fight meant nothing to her.

I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that you,
Alison, continue to say things to people such as what
you said to Theresa about causing her dog to suffer
(at least I guess that's what you meant by "you cause
your dog suffers" - - must be the King's English you
guys talk about over there) means that you are an
ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person who is not worth
further notice.
Sally Hennessey

From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 09:48:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Fencing

It's astounding. We used livestock electric fence
at the bottom of our fence some years back because
of a certain digging husky with wanderlust. This
was fairly new electric fencing, the shock was mild,
said husky touched it any number of times, and I can
guarandamntee you it didn't do anything horrible to
her body or her mind.

If I live to be 100, I will never understand the
mentality of people who have no knowledge of a
subject but still feel free, apparently compelled
even, to opine on that subject.

When it's people in another country,
it's nothing short of mind-boggling.

Mustang Sally


From: sighthounds etc. <greypigho...@ncweb.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2003 14:21:31 -0500

Subject: Re: Stop Barking Products

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 13:07:02 -0600, Katra
<*.@centurytel.net> wrote:

>"sighthounds etc." wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 12:50:59 -0600, Katra
>><K...@centurytel.net> wrote:
>
> Sorry, I don't hang out here enough anymore
> to recognize the morons... :-) Except for Jerry.

They can be difficult to recognize when they pretend
to be someone else. It must be a pretty fun game, as
both Jerry and Mikey devote a lot of time to it,
especially when one considers what busy people they are.

> Bark collars are supposed to work pretty well and a good
> one runs less han $100.00. He ought to just try one and
> see if it works. He won't be out much. <shrugs>

There is some controversy about the humane-ness of
citronella collars because dogs' noses are so sensitive.
I've tried citronella collars on our kenneled adoption
dogs, and they didn't appear to be able to figure out
the connection between their noise and the squirt.

>Or keep the dog inside.....

Now that's a pretty foolproof method of dealing
with problematic outdoor barking.

Mustang Sally


From: sighthounds etc. <greypigho...@ncweb.com>

Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 10:18:01 -0500
Local: Fri,Dec 6 2002 10:18 am
Subject: Re: BTW, Who am I

I don't know that Sibes generally go home on their own;
many don't, or they wouldn't end up in shelters. I don't
know if it's coincidence that one of our permanent Sibes
did this and one of our fosters did too. But I think
Siberians *can* find their way home, at least based on
my experience, where Greyhounds apparently usually can't.

I don't know why Greyhounds can't; I guess it doesn't
occur to them to use their noses to sniff their way
back home. Of course, Greyhounds often are several
miles away from home by the time they stop and consider
what they're doing. In our case, it took our Siberian
to find our Greyhound.

doG knows what would have happened to Matty if
not for Tasha, since he wouldn't come to us.
Guess we would have had to try darting him.

Invisible fences should not be used (except as
reinforcerment for normal-height fences ) with
northern breeds and sighthounds, period.

Sally Hennessey


From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 09:12:56 -0500
Local: Wed,Feb 9 2005 9:12 am
Subject: Seiure land

OK, living in this house is an epileptic Greyhound
that hasn't had a seizure in 3 years, and epileptic
IG that has a seizure (sometimes GM, but inconsistent)
every couple of months or so, a non-epileptic Siberian
that has a GM seizure every year or so, and a very badly
bred Miniature Dachshund that has atypical apparent
seizure activity at irregular intervals (but once on
the same day the IG had one). So half an hour ago, I
hear strange cat howling noises from the kitchen, and
upon investigating, there's Dolce having a tonic seizure
on the kitchen table.

It must be the house.

Mustang Sally


From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 08:27:02 -0500
Local: Fri,Jan 21 2005 8:27 am
Subject: Re: Bullmastiff bullies my Staffordshire Bull Terrier

That is just *exactly* what I was going to say.
I had one aggressive female (Dal) and a dominant
female that would die before she'd back down (Sibe).

We tried just about everything, and had we kept
them both, I am convinced that one would have
killed the other. These were fights that caused
injuries every time.

Mustang Sally

From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 12:11:28 -0400
Local: Sat,Apr 16 2005 12:11 pm
Subject: Re: Mojo,Luke and Taffy update

If we had known that the vet was going to treat it
as MMM regardless of the biopsy results, we'd never
have put Tasha through that. Specialists are great
and all that, but I think he did a lot of tests just
because he could.

That internist is gone from our vet's practice now,
and at first I was sorry, but now I'm not so sure.
Yesterday I took Abby the kitty in because I thought
she might be hyperthyroid. She isn't, but she probably
has IBD.

I asked the vet how they'd treat it, and he said
that if the specialist were there he'd scope her
and then they'd treat with prednisone. Since the
specialist isn't there, he's going to treat with
prednisone because she has the symptoms (she's
also 15, and I wouldn't want to put her through endoscopy).


From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 10:57:46 -0400
Subject: Re: Fear aggression

While most of my dogs are well-behaved when left
alone unconfined, my Whippets are not, and it is
simply not possible to sufficiently proof' my home
from dogs that can jump baby gates and get onto
tables and counters when no one is home.

No, of course they don't do that when we're
home, but they sure do when we're gone.

They aren't really destructive, though my female that enjoys
chewing up plastic, but they're very food oriented, and their
definition of food differs from ours, so they're crated for
their own protection. I've found crate training to be very
useful when a dog is ill or injured and needs to be confined
for medical purposes; and this happens more often than you
might think.

I hate to spoil the image of cruel Americans locking up their
dogs in boxes all day, but, well, it's BS, so there you go.

To the OP: it's very difficult to say what's going on with
your dog without observing him. I've had several very fearful
dogs, one of which had some minor fear aggression when she felt
absolutely trapped, but this resolved on its own as she became
more confident.

If there are specific things which trigger Sunny's fear aggression,
you could work on desensitizing her to those things, but in general,
I think you need either a behaviorist or a very good trainer who
deals with aggression problems.

Mustang Sally


"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."


From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 09:43:17 -0500
Subject: Re: New dog, need reassurance

The owner is the critical thing though - - you set the rules,
you decide what's acceptable, your attitude conveys that to
your dogs.

We currently have two males that really don't get along.

To minimize stress for animals and humans, they are kept separate.

No amount of training or alpha attitude is going to change
how they feel about each other, but they won't go after each
other if DH or I is/am present.

They will we're not around, though.

Mustang Sally


"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."


From: greyhound <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 10:10:07 -0500
Subject: Re: your dog's breed

I don't know about yours, but all the Siberians
we've had maintain some degree of aloofness.

They're affectionate, sleep on the bed and all
that, but they're always independent. When a
Sibe gets clingy, it's a good indication that
something's wrong. As ours age, though, they
become a bit less independent.

A couple of weeks ago, Tasha, who was on the bed,
crawled over and curled up right next to me, almost
on top of me, and cuddled. She was trembling a bit,
and I thought she might be about to have another
seizure, but the moment passed. I imagined calling
the vet: "I need to bring Tasha in because she's cuddling."

How bittersweet that you and Duncan bonded more
toward the end of his life than in the years before.
He always knew who he loved and trusted, and when he
felt himself failing, you're what he wanted.

Hope you're feeling better.

Mustang Sally

From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 10:54:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Injured By Dogs????

There are some dogs that will never bite a human under any
circumstances, and some that will bite a human when in pain.

Tasha is apparently one of the latter - - she bit my hand
when I closed her paw in a baby gate - - and I don't think
any less of her because of it, nor do I consider it a
reflection on her training. The incident showed us that
that type of baby gate wasn't the best design for use
with dogs, and we got rid of it.

Mustang Sally


"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."


From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 20:01:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Dog fight, dog bite, aaaiiiieeeeee

Heh. Probably confuses the dogs, too. I'll have
to keep that in mind if I have to break up a fight
again. Keeping calm is always recommended, but
usually harder than actually breaking up the fight.

The fights we've had in the last few years are nothing
compared to the ones between the Sibe and Dal (one of
the worst things about their fights was that once you
separated them, you had to hold onto them and be *very*
careful, because if they got half a chance, they'd go
after each other again.

The Dal always started it, but Tasha, as you might
guess, never backed down. Anyway, it's easier to
stay calm now because I know the dogs don't have
death as a goal, as they seemed to.

Staying calm also has a lot to do with the dogs'
behavior when you try to break up the fight.

Mustang Sally


"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."

From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2005 08:30:40 -0500

Subject: Re: my brother's dog

Assuming you could have found someone who knew what
they were doing. When the problems with Justy and
Tasha started, we contacted everyone we could think
of, including the Dal rescue people and trainers.

There weren't any behaviorists around, but someone,
I don't remember who, referred us to one in another
state who did phone consultations!

Of course, that was of limited value. In retrospect,
I still think that situation was unsalvageable. But
we sure learned a lot about multi-dog interactions,
dog aggression and managing less severe fighting
situations. It was months before hearing a dog growl
didn't make my heartbeat race.

Mustang Sally


"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."


From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 21:32:52 -0400

Subject: Re: Introducing New Dog to Household Cats

>> >but I'm inclined to believe that the "Wits' End Dog Training
>> >Manual" did have something to do with it, too. :-)

>> which exercises did you find most helpful?

> You know, what I found as most helpful were the magic
> words "Good boy, Clyde" and "Good girl, Bonnie". The
> dogs do ANYTHING if I just utter these words. I suspect
> that they are secretly reading Jerry's posts to rpdb. <g>

>> >for me, it was the best thing that I could wish for - no
>> >violence at all,

>> i've been playing at training my own dogs since i was 3-4
>> years old (probably longer, but my memory has its limits).
>> in any event, it was long before i'd ever heard of Mr. Howe.
>> somehow, without the benefit of Mr. Howe's "superior" methods,
>> i managed not to treat any of my dogs violently.

>> > very easy to apply, and best of all, always gives
>> > wonderful results.

>> that's untrue. one of his favorite methods (using a shake can
>> as positive punishment) does not work with either of my dogs.
>> one ignores it (he's not bothered by loud, sudden noises) and
>> the other loses all control of her bowels and bladder when
>> startled by sudden noises/movement. so, like most training
>> tools, the shake can may vary from benignly ineffective to
>> downright abusive, depending on the situation.

> This is nothing at all like what Jerry says. Really,
> shelly, why not READ the manual?

I've read the thing (I refuse to call it a manual), and
I can tell you, based on experience with high prey breeds,
that "good boy" and "good girl" are not particularly useful
when redirecting high prey drive.

Mustang Sally

"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."

From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Thu, 26 May 2005 09:27:10 -0400
Subject: Re: Dog defecates during walks

Clearly, my stating the facts is not enough for Lucy;
perhaps she needs some sort of tangible proof, or perhaps
she thinks Jerry knows what I do better than I do.

In either case, she's proven herself incapable
of reason, and therefore a waste of time.

Mustang Sally

HOWEDY racetrack silly,

sighthounds & siberians wrote:
> On 6 Oct 2005 17:48:31 -0700, "bethgsd@nospam.goaway.con"
> <bethgsd@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >The Halloween peeps are here!
>
> Thanks for the heads up!

You're SCARIER than any hobgoblin from the depths of HEEL.

> I'll make sure to buy a supply...

Whopiee!

> Anna had unilateral tieback surgery yesterday, by the way.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard NEVER HEARD of THAT!

> They wanted to send her home today, but the specialty
> clinic is more than an hour away, DH is on nights this week

Isn't he physically and emotionally CRIPPLED?

> and I am too swamped at work to take the day off.

Yeah. Work. YUK!

> Besides, she had surgery late in the day yesterday and
> I wanted to give her more time under the supervision of
> the experts to whom we're paying $2000.

I'll have to look up the condition. I'd BET MY LIFE,
DHOWEBLE OR NUTHING that it's a STRESS INDUCED AUTO-
IMMUNE DIS-EASE aka The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME.

INDEEDY! I guess I get to live another milennium!:

"Roaring" or laryngeal hemiplegia is due to a
neuropathy of the reurrent laryngeal nerve on the left
side. The muscle which abducts the left vocal cord
is therefore paralyzed, and the resulting turbulent
airflow causes the noise.

Surgery generally involves "tying back" the
vocal cord, sort of like tying back a curtain, although
there are some experimental procedures on nerve
transplantation being tried.

Surgery is about the only treatment for the
condition.

I can't see where sweating the neck would
worsen the condition, unless there were only a
partial paralysis and pressure was somehow put on
the nerve, which seems unlikely.
--C.M.Newell, DVM
(owner of the World's Most Expensive Free Horse,
who had tieback surgery *twice*)

> They said she did fine,

Of curse! All she NEEDS is a STRESS FREE environment.
My larynix goes HOWETA WHACK if I'm stressed, just
like my knee, ankle and back, all STRESS INDUCED DIS-
EASES, racetrack silly, JUST LIKE the SEIZURES four
of your dogs are goin through and the CANCERS four
of your dogs DIED from, racetrack silly!

> with no complications so far.

Your dogs ALWAYS recover from their stress induced
auto-immune DIS-EASES because THAT'S the NATURE of
The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME. Till they DIE from it,
usually at your own hand. But this one DON'T LOOK
GOOD because it's CAUSED BY jerking choking shocking
crating bribing and witholding attention affection
rewards and unconditional love trust and respect:

"Conditions such as neuromuscular or metabolic diseases
(myasthenia gravis, hypothyroidism), trauma (bite wounds
or blunt trauma to the neck), inflammation or neoplasia
may lead to laryngeal paralysis."

"Most of the time, the specific cause
of the muscle paralysis is not known."

It's CAUSED by STRESS, just like my laryngeal
problem which muted me for 8 months many years
ago and reocurs NEARLY INSTANTLY if I should
ever lose my temper.

"Occasionally, laryngeal paralysis is only one sign
of a systemic neurological disorder, but most of the
time it is a problem that occurs by itself. Clinical
signs of laryngeal paralysis are related to failure
of normal movement of the vocal folds."

IOW, The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME!

> Mustang Sally

HOWEDY racetrack silly, you dog murderin mental case,

sighthounds & siberians wrote:
> On 11 May 2005 19:39:45 -0700, "jettjon" <jettjon@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >First, I have tried to be extremely consistent, ensuring that
> >she defecates at the start of each walk. However, this seems to make
> >little difference. I will constantly say "No! No!" when she begins to
> >slow and give signs that she is about to "go." I've even tried
> >reinforcing with light lashes with the leash, or, in desperation,
> >open-palmed slaps. This continues unabated. Any ideas beyond simply
> >not walking this dog?
>
> Does she do this in your own yard,

The dog's behavior would be different in his yard.

> or wherever you take her for routine potty breaks?

You can tell alot abHOWET a dog by his toilet habits
JUST LIKE HOWE you can tell alot abHOWET a dog by his
tail. S-HOWENDS like this dog is MARKING with her POOP.

> If not, and if she's seen the vet recently

While it COULD be a veterinary problem it PROBABLY AIN'T.

> and been cleared of possible intestinal parasites,

What parasites would cause this behavior,
racetrack silly? Don't seem to be a SYMPTOM
of parasites.

> it could be a marking behavior.

Could be.

But is's PROBABLY a SYMPTOM of anXXXIHOWESNESS.

You can figger THAT HOWET by EXXXAMINING HOWE
the dog is being handled and trained...

> We had a particularly dominant bitch

There AIN'T NO SUCH THING as a "dominant" anything.
That type of behavior is LEARNED, COPIED from their
ABUSERS.

> that would mark with poop on walks,

NO PROBLEM. ANY behavior that's CONSISTENT
REPEATABLE or PREDICTABLE is EZ to EXXXTINGUISH
NEARLY INSTANTLY using effective non physical
scientific and psychological conditioning
techniques as taught in YOUR FREE COPY of
The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual <{) ; ~ ) >

> to the point that she was empty and her
> butt was orange.

S-HOWENDS like ANXXXIHOWESNESS, not "MARKING."

> Slapping and "lashing" her are likely
> to be ineffective at best.

You think so, racetrack silly?

> Try ignoring what she's doing

THAT AIN'T gonna TRAIN the dog not to
do that noMOORE, racetrack silly <{); ~ ) >

> and continuing to walk when she
> starts to slow down or squat.

She won't move, racetrack silly.
He'd have to DRAG and CHOKE her.

> Mustang Sally

You're a IDIOT:

"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."

"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv128jnumgmb2m27opr@4ax.com...

Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.

I'm starting to see some similarities here.

Sally Hennessey

"My spayed Siberian bitch marks and covers all
over the place, as did my spayed Dalmatian bitch.
The Borzoi doesn't, but she is *extremely* submissive."

Sally Hennessey

"Oops, hit "send" too fast. Of course bitches in
season are advertising, so that type of behavior
might be typical of Murphy. And some folks think
that spaying actually increases dominant/aggressive
behavior in bitches that were dominant/aggressive
beforehand, so perhaps marking behavior also
increases in those bitches."

Sally Hennessey


From: "The Puppy Wizard"
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:17:31 GMT
Subject: Re: Tara and Sally, kindred spirits in dog killing

PATHETIC, eh Soup?

"@d o g t v dot com" <""m i c h e ae l \
"@d o g t v dot com"> wrote in message
news:PeicnR5oY7QInOSiU-KYjA@comcast.com...
> sighthounds etc. wrote:
> > On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 15:56:36 -0400,
> >"Tara O." <boxert...@netscape.net> wrote:
>
> >> Damn Gwen, don't mince words or anything.
> >> I will assume, from the above, that in your eyes, I
> >> am not trustworthy to rescue Boxers or make decisions
> >> on who gets to adopt them...having killed my own dog
> >> and all.
>
> > You're not the only one. After numerous training
> > classes, behavioral consultations, and hundreds
> > of dollars in vet bills, I killed my Dalmatian several
> > years ago due to extreme dog-aggressiveness.
>
> Did you have to pay for it, or did the local Animal
> Protection League, where you were board President
> while 70% of the animals coming in for rescue were
> being killed, give you a freebie?
>
> > Either she was going to kill Tasha, my Siberian
> > with the rock steady temperament, or Tasha was
> > going to kill her, right in front of us.
> > My DH's first dog, and still the canine love of his life.
> > Good thing that Gwen is perfect in her
> > stewardship of her animals.
>
> Gwen didn't murder her own dog.
>
> You and Tara O. did.
>
> michael
> live.. dogtv.comn
>
> > Mustang Sally

Sally Hennessey

> Probably because they grab on and WON'T let go.
> Not that they can lock their jaws...just that
> they won't let go of the chewie/arm/whatever.

I had a Dalmatian like that. Better ban Dals, huh?
Sally Hennessey

===========

YOU MURDERED YOUR OWN DEAD Dalmatian...

"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me. I volunteered
as assistant to the euthanasia tech at our local shelter
for a while, and I know a bit about overpopulation and
unwanted animals.

This however has nothing at all to do with responsible
breeders, because responsible breeders don't contribute
to that problem," Mustang Sally.

"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv128jnumgmb2m27opr@4ax.com...

Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.

I'm starting to see some similarities here.

Sally Hennessey

Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 13:23:46 +0100
Local: Mon, Apr 9 2001 5:23 am
Subject: Re: shock collars

Sally Hennessey <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63h8ekqiforibadrff2@4ax.com...

Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-righteous,
this post shows and absence of knowledge in the differences
in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps a lack of ability to perceive
same. The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to whom
corrections and discomfort, even pain, were unimportant does
not mean that such dogs do not exist.

What it means is that you don't know as much about dogs
as you think you do, and you surely don't know a damn
thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.

I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with one
of her housemates; that dog had no fear or anything,
and pain incurred during a fight meant nothing to her.

I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that you,
Alison, continue to say things to people such as what
you said to Theresa about causing her dog to suffer
(at least I guess that's what you meant by "you cause
your dog suffers" - - must be the King's English you
guys talk about over there) means that you are an
ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person who is not worth
further notice.
Sally Hennessey


From: sighthounds etc. <greypigho...@ncweb.com>
Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 10:34:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Another Rebellion Stage?
On Wed, 29 May 2002 09:03:13 -0500,
Gwen Watson <g...@ig.utexas.edu> wrote:

>> "sighthounds etc." wrote:IMO it is unwise (and
>> ultimately unfair to the dog) to leave something
>> as important (particularly to a breed like a BC)
>> as exercise and training to someone else (yes,
>> even a spouse, or perhaps especially a spouse)
>> unless there is proof, in the form of experience,
>> that that someone else will come through.
>> Sally Hennessey
>
>I mostly agree with you Sally about this. Certainly it is
>ideal for the person who owns the dog to be the
>one exercising and giving mental stimulation. But there
>are times in which a person is not physically able, which
>apparently seems to be the case, at that point I personally
>think it would be better to find another individual to help
>out rather than not doing anything at all.

It's true that circumstances do change, and people
can't do what they could before. Definitely it would
be better for someone to exercise the dog than no
one, and I didn't mean to suggest that if the owner
can't do it, then no one should. I meant that one
should not get a dog requiring lots of exercise and
mental stimulation if one cannot meet those needs.

IOW, Leah shouldn't have gotten a BC with the
understanding that her husband would take care
of the exercise and training needs.

However, Leah said that it was actually her husband
who wanted a BC, and he promised to exercise and
train her. I guess it depends on one's experience;

IME, I'm the one doing the training, so next time my
DH wants a Dalmatian and promises to train it, I won't
believe him.

Sally Hennessey


"My spayed Siberian bitch marks and covers all
over the place, as did my spayed Dalmatian bitch.
The Borzoi doesn't, but she is *extremely* submissive."

Sally Hennessey

"Oops, hit "send" too fast. Of course bitches in
season are advertising, so that type of behavior
might be typical of Murphy. And some folks think
that spaying actually increases dominant/aggressive
behavior in bitches that were dominant/aggressive
beforehand, so perhaps marking behavior also
increases in those bitches."

Sally Hennessey


I didn't mean to suggest that we don't love our
poop-eaters; of course, we do. If we were on
that show (The Secret Shame...), we would be
seen frantically dodging leaping Whippets trying
to plant kisses as close as possible to our mouths.

And I will admit that the night Robin barfed up poop,
he spent the night in his crate, not in bed with us.

Just couldn't chance a recurrence.

Sally Hennessey


Sighthounds etc." <greypigho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:2oo30vco39kba31kfhfjv691ghm6c78giq@4ax.com...

Dalmatian that would position himself behind
the Greyhounds and catch...Being a Dal, he
was sometimes a little harder to love to begin
with.

"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."

From: sionnach (rhyfe...@email.msn.com)
Subject: Re: Correct use of prong collar
Date: 2001-05-05 13:03:14 PST

> And Sally responded:
> >Who said that? I would never do or recommend
> >that, and neither would most of the regulars on here.
> >Sally Hennessey
>
> I've posted my entire quote, since Patch failed to do so.
> Take it out of context and you'd think I was flinging puppies
> across the room!
>
> here's what I said (keep in mind that we're talking about a
> 12 week old ~25# FCR puppy):
>
> A small scruff shake is appropriate if he's
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^­­­­­^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> very persistant.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Um, may I suggest a re-wording that might make
it clearer- given that "scruff shake" is too easily
misinterpreted as "pick the puppy up by the scruff
of the neck and shake the puppy in the air"?

I think I'd phrase it something like "if the puppy is very
persistant, it can be appropriate to take hold of the
loose skin at the back of the neck and give a slight
shake to the *skin*".

Janet's not talking about actually shaking
the puppy, which I think we ALL agree is
abusive."

"Marshall Dermer" <der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:a3h5qn$mra$1@uwm.edu...

> Di,
> I don't believe you mentioned a particular kind of
> training. If you are interested in training retrieval
> behavior than do consider our own Amy Dahl's:
> The 10-Minute Retriever : How to Make a Well-
> Mannered, Obedient and Enthusiastic Gun Dog
> in 10 Minutes a Day by John I. Dahl, Amy Dahl

You failed to mention your pals the dahls are
proven liars and dog abusers, professor "SCRUFF SHAKE:"

"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog
I Do Not Believe There Is A Single Circumstance
Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything But
Destructive," "I don't see why anyone would want
to choke or beat a dog, or how any trainer could
possibly get a good working dog by making them
unhapper, fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying
frosty dahl.

> just $17.95 at Amazon.com.
> (Also, it is best to killfile posts from the few
> regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
> ill-mannered, or just plain ill.)
> --Marshall

amy lying frosty dahl continues:

"On the other extreme, the really ard dogs
we have trained require much more frequent
and heavy application of pressure (PAIN j.h.)
to get the job done,

This is continued resistance to your increasing
authority, and the job is not done until it is overcome

Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield
the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them
more sharply

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and
the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist!
Eventually, the dog will give in

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
efforts to escaping the ear pinch

You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell
instead of your thumb even get a studded collar
and pinch the ear against that

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so
urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.

CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready
Right Hand, As it catches on, try using the stick
and no ear pinch.

When the dog is digging out to beat the stick
and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch,
you are finished

If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin,
say "No! Hold!"

(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps because
the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided
it isn't worth it)" lying frosty dahl.

"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.

terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."

lying frosty dahl sez she doesn't twist:

"None of my posts, prior to or subsequent to
Jerry Howe's attacks, encourage anyone to
twist ears, beat dogs, confront, intimidate,
frighten, or any of the crap he constantly
attributes to me," lying frosty dahl.

BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!

"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.

Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies
HURT all their lives like HOWE HOWER dog
lovers PREFER to HURT THEIR DOGS?

"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."

The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.

We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...

Sez on our FAQ'S pages at K9 Web you should
knee the dog in the chest, step on its toes, throw
him down by his ears and climb all over it like a
raped ape growling into his throat and bite IT on
his ears, or leash pop it on a pronged spiked pinch
choke collar or pop him in the snout with the heel
of your palm.

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.


"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?

> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.

> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

BWWWAWHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!


From: lucyaa...@claque.net

Date: 20 Aug 2005 10:49:08 -0700

Subject: Re: lead training

sighthounds & siberians wrote:
> On 20 Aug 2005 08:40:45 -0700, lucyaa...@claque.net wrote:

> >Because he has a training method that is entirely nonviolent, easy to
> >apply and which gives nearly instant results. And why do you care what
> >he says about you, or if he is insane (he is not, but that's
> >irrelevant)? If his method can help you to put an end to your dogs'
> >behavior problems in a very easy way with no stress to dogs and you,
> >what more reasons to read it do you need?

> So you think it's rational behavior to post using numerous aliases,
> from an apparent desire to thwart killfiles of people who prefer not
> to engage with him and to harass people as much as possible. You
> believe it's rational behavior to misspell words so as to insert one's
> own name as often as possible and to make up childishly insulting
> names from other people's names. You believe it's rational behavior
> to dredge up years-old posts and to reply to one's own posts, just to
> be posting. You believe that there's nothing questionable about a
> self-proclaimed dog trainer who has time to post from his computer all
> day and all night. You believe that it's possible for person A to
> know person B's dog better than person B does, when person A has never
> seen it. You believe that a person can sit at his/her computer and
> accurately "diagnose", and then solve, all manner of behavior problems
> without seeing the dogs in question. You believe that Jerry Howe's
> claims about dog behavior are true and accurate even when they
> contradict years and volumes of scientific research, and even though
> you have not read any of this research yourself.

> And don't respond with anything about his 'method'; I'm not interested
> in that, I'm talking about Jerry Howe the person. Because if Ian
> Dunbar acted like Jerry Howe does, I'd think he was a kook and would
> look very closely at anything he said. So I'm just asking if you
> believe all of the above, because that will tell me a lot about you.

I believe that someone can CHOOSE to create a certain Usenet image of
oneself, an image which might have nothing to do with how that person
behaves in Real Life. This doesn't mean he is insane, it only means
that he acts according to a plan that you know nothing about.

As about diagnosing the dog behavior problems, I think he's doing a
pretty good job at it, at least from what he told me about one of my
dogs. In what my other dog is concerned, it's as if the manual was
written about him and for him: everything fits, to the tiniest detail.
So yes, I think he understands dogs very well and his advice works.

I think that Jerry Howe as a person is more concerned with the welfare
of the dogs than with the sensitivity of their owners. Yet he is
willing to invest his time in teaching the owners how to properly
handle their dogs, to the benefit of both dogs and their humans. True,
he has no patience with those who reject his method without even
reading it and who prefer harsher training methods instead. But, if you
see someone doing something horrible to their dogs, don't you object,
sometimes in very severe words? If there is a better, gentler way to
make the dog do what you want, doesn't it automatically make all the
other harsher methods abusive? Just think that not too long ago beating
a dog was considered as natural a thing as beating a child - both
unquestioned as good dog training or child rearing practice, yet today
they are both considered as abuse.

Lucy



From: "Janet Puistonen" <boxh...@verizon.net>
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 15:00:08 GMT
Subject: Re: lead training

l*.@claque.net wrote:
> I believe that someone can CHOOSE to create a certain Usenet image of
> oneself, an image which might have nothing to do with how that person
> behaves in Real Life. This doesn't mean he is insane, it only means
> that he acts according to a plan that you know nothing about.

<snip>

> I think that Jerry Howe as a person is more concerned with the welfare
> of the dogs than with the sensitivity of their owners. Yet he is
> willing to invest his time in teaching the owners how to properly
> handle their dogs, to the benefit of both dogs and their humans.

He has trained virtually every human he contacts--with the exception of
you,
apparently--to despise and ignore him. If he actually has any concern
for
the welfare of their dogs, and actually thinks that he could improve
said
welfare by getting through to the owners, he is a miserable failure as
a
trainer. If his actual goal is simply to reinforce his bizarre,
paranoid
world view by training people to despise him, then he has succeeded
admirably and is a success as a trainer.

You pick.


From: Robin Nuttall <robi...@mchsi.com>
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 17:31:44 GMT

Subject: Re: lead training

Janet Puistonen wrote:
> lucyaa...@claque.net wrote:

>> I believe that someone can CHOOSE to create a certain Usenet image
>> of oneself, an image which might have nothing to do with how that
>> person behaves in Real Life. This doesn't mean he is insane, it
>> only means that he acts according to a plan that you know nothing
>> about.

I have lucy killfiled for the most part, but I don't think that people
*can* really choose a certain usenet persona if it is far from their
own, and stick with it for years at a time with no variation. In fact,
I
feel the opposite is true. There have been people who have posted to
usenet then have tried, for some reason or another, to come back as an
alias of themselves, and have tried to act differently. But expression
and writing style give them away. A lot of basic personality comes
through on posts and many times you don't even need to glance at the
headers to tell who it is.

> He has trained virtually every human he contacts--with the exception
> of you, apparently--to despise and ignore him.

Well Lucy herself is obviously mentally disturbed or a troll (and I'm
thinking more and more a combination of both) or she would obviously
see
the problem with TPWs posts and message--or rather lack of any sanity.


From: "The Puppy Wizard"
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 22:56:33 GMT

Subject: Re: Ping Robin N./ anyone with knowlege
about ortho issues, esp. in Dobes

HOWEDY robin,

"Robin Nuttall" <robi...@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:jJXfb.692171$uu5.113044@sccrnsc04...

> Dogs with wobblers *often* start out with subtle hind end
> symptoms.

You had to kill your dog with "wobbler's." That you've had
TWO dogs with wobler's sez much for the FACT that it's CAUSED
by inapupriate diet and MISHANDLING. The Puppy Wizard has seen
only WON case of wobler's in forty sumpthin years, and that
puppy was being fed Euk, and recouperated NEARLY INSTANTLY
when put on a pupper diet.

LikeWIZE, HD is often caused by a lack of vitamin C, not BAD
BREEDING.

It's abHOWET the same same same same as SCURVY.

> They walk with a swaying gait, swinging their legs out to
> the side rather than picking them up and placing them back
> down directly in front.
>
> They also tend to stumble and fall fairly often--wiping out
> as it were. Sometimes they yelp out of the blue for no apparent
> reason.

Wobbler's is usually caused by overnutrition or jerking and
choking on lead. Chiropractic adjustment and appupriate diet
and accupuncture may be the best course of treatment.

> > Sigh. I HATE this sort of thing... sweet, YOUNG dog,
> > nice (if a bit ignorant) owner, and I'm foreseeing pain
> > and difficulty for both of them. :-(

INDEEDY. HOWEver, you're USED TO IT, no dHOWET.

> Yes, it sucks. And dobes, more than some breeds, are just
> not good to get from ignorant people. Cause stuff like this
> happens a lot in this breed.

Yeah, cause of IGNORANT PEOPLE like yourselves.

From: Robin Nuttall (robi...@ddgraphix.com)
Subject: Re: Wobblers Syndrome
Date: 2001-01-08 14:35:28 PST

Ted Trostle wrote:

> I have a 9 year old female Doberman with this condition.
> Currently she is still mobile, but needs help with stairs.
> Surgery is not a option because of its expense, long term
> personal care and the surgery cannot fully correct the problem.
>
> I am looking for acupuncture treatments, chiropractic care etc.
> by Vets in Pennsylvania or Maryland.

> Please send me useful contact info or ideas that are known
> to be beneficial. I am not looking for a 100% cure, but I
> would like to provide a improved and better quality of life
> for this great dog.

Welcome to my world! As the owner of not one, but two dogs
severely affected with Wobblers (CVI, Cervical Vertebral
Instability), I can relate.

I too chose not to do surgery. It's a very tough surgery,
with a long recovery time, and it is not a cure. It merely
fuses the affected spinal vertebrae. It does sometimes help,
but there's a danger of later recurrence and something called
domino effect. And of course it IS terribly expensive.

If you are interested in alternative medicine, go to the
Alternative Veterinary Medicine website at http://www.altvetmed.com.
There you will find a wealth of information, including links to a
site listing all board certified veterinary acupuncturists in the
country.

It's very important to go to a DVM who is board certified!

Don't go to a human acupuncturist. And also avoid chiropractic
care, it's often too much for dogs who already have unstable spines.

I use a combination of acupuncture and rimadyl. It works well
for me, and Dreamer is 4 years out from diagnosis! Best of luck.

--
Robin Nuttall

===================


Date: 24 Jul 2005 05:43:36 -0700

Subject: Help training Saskia not to drag

HOWEDY katrina aka white monkey,

White Monkey wrote:
> Hi folks,

> Saskia, at 1 1/2 years old in a few days,

You CRIPPLED your spooky Dane.

> is still very young

18 months is adulthood, katrina.

> and full of bounce and joy.

Your dog is full of BHOWENCE on accHOWENT
of she's got PAINIC disorders, katrina.
Your dog is afraid and hyperactive.

> She minds us extremely well

That so?

"sadly--our girl, whom we would not trade
for the world, is quite shy."

INDEED? And you NATURALLY BLAME THAT on the BREEDER.

"She isn't downright spooky-"

BWEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHHAHAAA!!!:

"she is very insecure about new things like baby
monitors (but not, happily, babies)"

Oh? THAT'S on accHOWENT of you keep your baby away from IT.

"and plastic bags in the street, etc.,"

You mean basically ANYTHING SPOOKS HER:

"-a few months ago we couldn't get her to pee if
someone was going along the opposite side of the
canal on a bicycle or parking a car at the end
of the block."

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!:

"and when we have visitors or meet people on the
street she takes quite some time to warm up enough
to allow them to touch her,

This results in her going happily and enthusiastically
up to people, and then leaping back when they move to
pet her"

BUT "SHE ISN'T DOWNRIGHT SPOOKY":

You mean, unless she sees sumpthin:

"She also sticks very close to us in new places"

> almost all the time,

BWEEEEEEEEAAAHHAHHAHAHAAA!!!

> screeching to a halt at bike paths

On accHOWENT of she's AFAID of bicycles. REMEMBER?:

"-a few months ago we couldn't get her to pee if
someone was going along the opposite side of the
canal on a bicycle or parking a car at the end
of the block."

> when off-lead

Where's she gonna go other than run back to her HOWES?

> and demonstrating excellent recall.

On accHOWENT of she's AFRAID to be alone.

> She is fabulous with the baby,

She's AFRAID of your baby on accHOWENT of
you punish and threaten her to be careful.

> having learned to hold very still if he crawls
> underneath her and starts playing with her feet,

She's terrified of that baby...

> and adores him,

No, THAT'S SUBMISSIVE behavior thanks to you threatenin her.

> following him everywhere

That's on accHOWENT of IT always has sumthin in ITS
face to keep IT from crying someMOORE <{); ~ ) >

> and trying to keep her head near him-

He got FOOD.

> -if he sits down to play she immediately lies down
> and puts her head as near him as possible
> http://www.xs4all.nl/~cooper17 /katrina/Walter/LookHimNow2.jp g.

She wants to keep an eye on him on accHOWENT of she's AFRAID.

> If he cries she rushes over to see what's wrong.

While you set there ignoring him.

> She has even learned some self-control over her anxiety problem-

That so? WHICH anXXXIHOWESNESS problem, katrina?

> -the other day she was lying by him and he was leaning
> on her, and she was startled by something he did-

Duh? She's AFRAID YOU'LL HURT HER over the rugrat.

> -he moved something she'd always thought was inanimate-
> -and she jumped halfway up, realized while still crouched
> that she'd made Walter fall over

Yeah. She's very careful with the baby... and
"has learned SELF-CON-TROLL" BWEEEEAAHAHAHHAA!!!

> (gently and to his amusement, but she didn't extrapolate that)

RIGHT. She was worried you'd jerk and choke her for that.

> and she immediately and very slowly and carefully sank
> back to a down while licking his hands frantically.

That's SUBMISSIVE behavior.

> However. When we see another dog outside
> she tries to get over there.

You mean she tries to ATTACK him...

> It's fine in the park

You mean on accHOWENT of she's too SPOOKY
to leave your side in pubic <{); ~ ) >

> or the running area where everyone's dogs are loose and
> most friendly and there's plenty of space and we're not
> going anywhere in particular.

SHE'S TOO AFRAID TO STEP AWAY FROM YOU.

> But out front and on street-walks it's another matter.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHHAHAHAA!!!

> If we see the dog before she does, often she will
> sit for us and hold the sit,

On accHOWET of YOU THREATEN HER just like HOWE
you do arHOWEND the rugrat, katrina. THAT'S HOWE
COME your dog IS A SPOOK.

> quivering,

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHA!!!

> until the dog is very close-

THEN SHE ATTACKS, katrina?

> -then she'll leap out into a play bow,

That so? She's doin submissive behaviors on
accHOWENT of she's MOORE AFRAID?

> general scaring the wits out of dog and human

Naaah? For PLAYIN?

> (she does weigh in excess of 120 pounds now).

Oh, and they got short people there too, so it
makes her LOOK bigger. She's SMALL for a Dane..

> Often she'll suddenly try to follow the dog down the block.

That so? Do tell? She wants to LEAVE YOU for her newfHOWEND
friends? So much for LOYALTY, eh katrina you mental case?

> We feel bad yelling and giving her

DO TELL?

> a bit of a tap on the butt

Naaah, you wouldn't HIT your dog katrina,
that'd make IT fear aggressive and shy.

> (the ultimate in punishment

You PUNISH your dog, katrina? What would
Dra. Alice DeGroote say abHOWET THAT,
katrina? Dra. Degroot WOULDN'T APPROVE.

YOU KNOW THAT, katrina.

> as far as she's concerned,

All she wants to do is ESCAPE, katrina,
but SHE'S TOO AFRAID to RUN AWAY alone.

> along with the dreaded "Bad Dog!"),

The Amazing Puppy Wizard NEVER scolds or
punishes threatens chokes hits or otherWIZE
negatively interacts with HIS dogs on acc-
HOWENT OF THAT MAKES THEM FEAR AGGRESSIVE
and SHY and HYPERACTIVE and UNTRUSTWORTHY,
katrina JUST LIKE HOWE Dra. DeGroote HAS
TOLD YOU, REMEMBER katrina?

> and although I can hold her

You mean you physically restrain and force her.

> it looks awful,

Naaah? Do tell?

> with the lunging and yelling and so forth

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

> as the others go by, and gives the impression she's mean,

Naaaah, she's PLAYIN! She LOVES people, she RUNS RIGHT
UP TO THEM and BOWS AND BHOWENCES UP AN DHOWEN!

REMEMBER, katrina?

BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAA!!!

> and she outweighs my husband

BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHHAHHAAA!!!

You mean he's the RUNT of the litter?

> and he doesn't have all the horse experience

You mean he don't know HOWE to JERK and CHOKE
her like HOWE you BROKE HER NECK, eh katrina?

> so he gets dragged.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

Well katrina, you should put her back on your
head halter and pronged spiked pinch choke
collar and restrictive slip harness pryor to
her maybe HURTIN someWON, don't you think?

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

> Doesn't help that most dogs here are offlead,

INCONSIDERATE of them, ain't it.

> and although well trained,

UNLIKE YOUR DOG, eh katrina?

DO COMPLAIN abHOWET them...

> the streets are narrow and they have to come right by her.

SPOOOKEY, eh katrina? BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

> Usually just walking the other way isn't an option

You mean to AVOID passing bye dogs...

> because we're standing at the elimination spot or this block.

Oh... otherWIZE she'd leave a trail of shit
DHOWEN the sidewalk behind her as she runs
away from them, eh katrina? You're a fast
learner. BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

> She's not treat motivated at all at times like these.

You mean when she's AFRAID... perhaps them
treats are makin her afraid, eh katrina?

> We cannot use any sort of training collar or
> a Halti because she has a neck problem that

That SHE GOT on accHOWENT of you jerkin and
choking and screamin "BAD DOG!" at her for
passing dogs bicycles and approachin your
baby when you first "introduced" them.

> although dormant

You mean it doesn't seem to HURT her if she's not movin.

> is potentially a Wobbler's type condition,

You mean you dislocated a verterbrae or crushed
a disc in her neck by jerking and choking IT on
your pronged spiked pinch choke collar and head
harness when she drags your puny punk husband
behind her.. Perhaps you should give her some
ISOMETRIC EXXXORCISES on her head halter, like
have you stand like a tree as she jerks and
chokes herself at the end of her lead to TRY
to strenghthen her broken neck, eh katrina?

> and on the advice of the orthopedist

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHHAHAAA!!!

Pssst? She WOULDN'T NEED a ORTHOPEDIT if
you didn't JERK and CHOKE her makin like
a tree or skiiorjing your whimp DH.

BWEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAAAA!!!

> she's in a body harness

You mean a restirictive choking harness.

> and a loose-fitting buckle collar for backup.

BWEEEEEEEEAAAAAHAHAHHAHAHAAA!!!

Next you'll break her back jerking and
chokin her on that harness.

> She heels well,

That so? You mean in your livin room if
the baby is quite or sleepin.

> she walks loose-lead in general well,

You mean untill she SEES sumpthin.

> she just loves those other dogs.

Yeah... THE WONS YOU TRY TO AVOID.

> Coupled with all this,

You got a PERSONAL PROBLEM?

> some of the dogs, especially terriers, are less than enthused,

Naaa? Do tell?

> and Saskia thinks everything is play,

Of curse, she's PLAYIN!

> so she has decided that copying this one dog

You mean she ACTS like she wants to ATTACK for NO REASON?

> who genuinely hates her

Dogs DON'T HATE, katrina, that's a HUMAN emotion.
Dogs ATTACK ONLY WHEN THEY'RE AFRAID, katrina. Ask
Dra. DeGroote, she'll tell you.

> and passes on a bicycle (well, accompanying one)

Oh, so she's got THAT TOO, to be AFRAID of.

Well, you better reign her in, eh?

> now and then by letting out a good solid roar
> in company with the on-lead play thing

Yeah, she's PLAYIN "LIONS an spring lambs", eh kat?

> (which is what she clearly thinks is happening)

You mean when she's attacking passing bicyclist's dogs.

> is a good idea.

She DOES IT on accHOWENT of SHE'S TERRIFIED
of you jerking choking and restraining her.

> This downright scares the bejeezus out of the other human,

Naaah, she's PLAYIN! Them freakin Norwigian
guys are actin like a bunch of foreigners.
Your dogs breed comes from there, don't it,
katrina... BWEEEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAA!!!

> and sets the terriers off-

Yeah, it's them terriors who are the foreigners.
Perhaps they should legislate against them.

> -at which point Saskia realizes they're not
> playing and hides behind me.

You mean on accHOWENT of she can't break
away from you with the slip choke harness
and backup buckle collar when you make like
a tree and scold and choke her.

> Suggestions?

Yeah, dump your baby at the nearest fire
station and dump your dog on a street
corner where she'll find a FRIEND who
WON'T HURT HER and check yourself into
a mental heelth facility for Sadists.

> We do have a trainer and she's good,

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!

HEY katrina? Remember when you was "TRAINER"
for Dra. Alice DeGroote? The Amazing Puppy
Wizard TOLD YOU that could RUIN her heretofore
SPOTLESS reputation.

BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAAA!!!

Tell us MOORE abHOWET your "TRAINER", eh katrina?

> but we're flat broke right now

So, dh, the RUNT of the litter, incompetent
at even restraining your dog on a variety
of choking devices, can't even hunt up a meal.

> due to illness elsewhere in the family

Oh, you mean THAT problem...

> and the general spiraling out of control of
> the Dutch economy.

JUST LIKE YOUR FEAR AGGRESSIVE HYPERACTIVE
HOWETA CON-TROLL DEATHLY ILL DOG.

> I will be phoning her for suggestions as well,

BWEEEEAAAHAHHAHAAA!!!

> but you folks have always dealt out generally good advice

INDEEDY! LOOK AT THE RESULT YOU GOT!

Hey? THIS is a job for DOGMAN, katrina. Ask
tommy soronsen aka jack morrison for his advice.
He's trained and rehabilitated HUNDREDS of dogs
JUST LIKE YOURS that he's trained to be like
you done your dog. He knows HOWE to FIX that
little problem like he heelped his pal with
who's dog just turned on him this week...

> and I'd appreciate some ideas.

You should maybe ask janet boss, eh kat?

> Thanks,

BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!

> Katrina

The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >


H*@HotMail.Com
2006-05-30 02:47:17 EST
HOWEDY matty you miserable stinkin lyin dog abusing punk thug
coward active acute chronic long term incurable mental case and
illegal doggy day care FRAUD and SCAM ARTIST,

Rocky wrote:
> "showdogbark" <jotnaringin@yahoo.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > I said that Jerry posts the proof of abuse by posting case histories.

Yeah. CASE HISTORIES of miserable lyin dog abusing punk thug
cowards and active acute chronic long term incurable mental cases
like matty and his pals hurtin intimidatin mutilatin an murderin
innocent
defenseless dumb critters an LYIN abHOWET it <{) ; ~ ) >

> He posts stories.

You need "MOORE INFORMATION", matty?

If you KNEW HOWE to CURE phobias like fear of thunder and
separation anXXXIHOWESNESS and HOWEsbreakin problems
and obsessive compulsive SHIT EATIN, YOU'D PUT YOURSELF
clean HOWETA your ILLEGAL DOGGY DAY CARE BUSINESS,
wouldn't you, matty.

Here's you COMPLAININ on accHOWENT of Robin CURED her
12 year old dog of FEAR OF THUNDER and SEPARATION
ANXXXIHOWESNESS NEARLY INSTANTLY:

Rocky wrote:
> Robin said in rec.pets.dogs.health:
> > Jerry, you give the lying dog abusing punk thug coward
> > mental cases too much credit for the ability to influence

Naaah, The Amazing Puppy Wizard was just BAITING these lying
dog abusing punk thug coward mental cases again <{); ~ ) >

> You really are a piece of work.

INDEEDY, matty. Robin studied and followed the INSTRUCTIONS in her
own FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual and REPORTED her 100% NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS
RIGHT HERE on The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End
Dog Training Method Manual Forums And SCHOOL Of HARD KNOCKS
And HUMAN BEHAVIOR RESEARCH LABORATORIES, matty <{); ~ ) >

You're settin in it <{); ~ ) >

> Keep this out of the health groups, 'kay?

Dogs DIE from separation anXXXIHOWESNESS, matty, JUST
LIKE HOWE your own DEATHLY ILL dog Rocky is DYIN from
STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASE aka The Puppy
Wizard's SYNDROME, on accHOWENT of you're a lyin dog
abusin punk thug coward MENTAL CASE, matty, and you
can't post here abHOWETS nodoGgamenedMOORE <{); ~ ) >

IN FACT, Robin followed up on her original 100% NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL REPORT with a other WON, matty.
PERHAPS you'd like to READ IT, eh matty?

Of curse not! Oh, bye the bye matty, The Freakin Simply Amazing
Puppy Wizard SEZ you and your punk thug coward active acute
chronic long term incurable mental case pals CAN'T POST HERE
abHOWETS nodoGdamenedMOORE.

Here's a other STORY, matty:

Rocky wrote:
> "JL" <jarin_...@sympatico.ca> said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> > OK Matt was asking how do I react to his behaviour.

If matty could tell you HOWE to train a dog he'd PUT HISSELF
HOWETA his ILLEGAL DOGGY DAY CARE BUSINESS.

> > Well I try to ignore him but sometimes I'll pet him telling
> > him it's OK which seems the wrong thing to do from reading
> > posts and I'll stop doing it.

> Good!

> Do you understand, though, *why* you shouldn't tell your dog that it's OK?

On accHOWENT of it'll make YOU and your miserable stinkin
lyin dog abusing punk thug coward active acute chronic long
term incurable mental case pals LOOK like LYIN DOG ABUSIN
MENTAL CASES, ain't that correct, matty?

> It goes to the heart of desensitization.

INDEED? Seems you don't understand what you're talkin
abHOWET, matty. TELLIN the dog "it's O.K." is GOOD.

TOUCHIN the dog while tellin him "it's O.K." or offerin FOOD
REWARDS locks his thinkin on his PHOBIA and IS therefore,
BAD. VERY BAD, matty.

> > Someone over the weekend was suggesting getting a CD
> > with sound of thunder on it and to start playing it softly and
> > prassing the dog.

They're PROBABLY SELLIN IT. NO PROBLEMO, IT DON'T WORK.

> Timing is important -

Yeah. You gotta PRAISE the dog INSTANTLY to the sound and IN ADVANCE.

> you don't want to reward your dog while he's afraid.

You mean by PATTING FEEDING or TOUCHIN IT, matty?

So called REWARDS for BAD BEHAVIORS REINFORCES them, matty.
Like offerin TREATS when the dog is AFRAID, REWARDS the dog
FOR BEIN AFRAID, matty <{): ~ ) >

> > Problem with this is I guess finding a CD with thunder on it.

> Even if you find such a recording, it may not work.

Of curse IT WON'T WORK, matty, it's a SCAM. HOWEver,
you can BUY those SCAM tapes at your punk thug coward
active acute chronic long term incurable mental case
pal Master Of Deception blankman's site dogplay.CON.

> Theories abound that it's not just the sound, but vibration,
> pressure changes, handler thunder discomfort, handler
> anticipation at the dog being discomfited....

You mean the same kinda BULLSHIT you been sellin, matty?

> I worked Good Ol' Murphy through the worst part of her thunder fear

You mean YOU NEVER DID CURE HER FEAR OF THUNDER, matty,
on accHOWENT of FEAR OF ANYTHING is CAUSED by ABUSE.

> after we moved to an area that has a ton of storms during some times of the year.

The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Students REPORT CURING ALL temperament and
behavior problems NEARLY INSTANTLY simply by DOIN EVERYTHING
EXXXACTLY PRECISELY OPPOSITE of HOWE you been tryin to misadvise
people so you can CONtinue your fraudulent doggy day care SCAM.

YOU CALL THEM LIARS and FORGERIES by The Freakin
Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard. REMEMBER matty?

> I'd sit in the bay window with her watching the storm, me
> with a glass of wine and a bunch of treats, counting the
> seconds between boomers and treating her just before--and
> jackpotting during--the scary parts.

THAT'S INSANE, matty.

Better stick to drinkin wine alone...

> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

HERE'S HOWE COME your dog FEARS ANYTHING, matty:

"I wouldn't do anything because Friday would correct him more
appropriately than I ever could. I'd separate them or watch them
closely. If I can catch them at it before the behaviour itself becomes
rewarding, I use my marker word. If I can catch them even earlier
(when the intent to commit misbehaviour is forming in their evil
minds), distraction works. The latter works better than the former
when it comes to their protecting me from the mailman. Management,
redirection, distraction, aversives, Paula's socks, combinations
thereof -
it's all good," matt. Rocky's my epileptic dog.

AND THAT'S HOWE COME YOUR DOG EATS SHIT, matty:

HOWEDY matty,

Rocky wrote:
> Simon said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> > I have two dogs and my English Setter has been eating
> > feces, both his own as well as my other dog's feces. On
> > walks, he will eat other dog's feces as well.

> This is very common.

Yeah. It's a NEUROTIC behavior LEARNED from bein
PUNISHED for shittin in the HOWES, matty.

> All I can suggest is the following:

Your own dog GOT THE SAME PROBLEM, REMEMBER matty?

> Immediately pick up the poo in the areas over
> which you have control.

You mean, INSTEAD of just TRAINING the dog NOT TO EAT
SHIT, in a couple moments of non physical praise, matty?

> On walks, keep him on a leash and pay attention.

THAT NEVER WORKS, matty.

> Try a different food.

THAT'S INSANE, matty.

> For what it's worth,

What it's WORTH is YOU GOT NO ADVICE. Your own DEATHLY
ILL DOG Rocky GOT THE SAME PROBLEM on accHOWENT of you
ABUSE him, matty. What it's WORTH are DEATHLY ILL and
DEAD DOGS, matty.

> no matter the reason he started eating poo,

You got NO METHOD to TRAIN the dog NOT TO DO IT, matty.

> he now likes it and it's become a habit you have to break.

You got any TRAININ suggestions, matty?

> You probably won't have to keep him on leash forever,

You think the dog will FORGET to eat poo when IT can't be
forced and jerked and choked not to do that someMOORE?

> just until you've taught a good recall or a good "leave it."

HOWE is THAT gonna TRAIN the dog NOT TO EAT SHIT, matty?

> My Rocky was/is a poo eater,

SHAAAZZZAAAMMM?

> though now only when it's winter frozen or sun dried -

BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!

> both are avoidable situations.

HOWE, matty? HOWE do you AVOID FROZEN / DRIED SHIT, matty?

> As to watching your Setter on a 24/7 basis,
> of course that's not possible in most situations,

So you LOCK THE DOG IN A BOX, matty.

> but your *care* should be 24/7.

That so?

> That is, when he's not supervised, he should
> be in a situation where he can't do what you
> don't want him to do.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!

> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Marshall Dermer" <der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:e55s2t$40t$1@uwm.edu...

Amen Brother Matt!! :-)

--Marshall

"BTW Jerry, the sound/noise training is working so far.
And yes, I still clean the yard every other day, but
now there is feces from Both dogs. Thanks Jer!," Marty.

From: der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer)
Date: 1999/12/21
Subject: Re: Doc Dermer's offer

In article <tfR74.1$W64....@typhoon3.tampabay.rr.com> "Jerry Howe"

<*.@cfl.rr.com> writes:
> Lemme aks you sumthin, doc? When you punish your dog,
> do you find that he masturbates more frequently after
> such instances? (referring to your post about your dog
> using a pillow to get himself off)

First, I punish behavior, not dogs.

Second, I rarely issue corrections.

Third, as time goes on my dog uses the pillow less frequently.

I would say he uses it about once a month. Finally, I'm not
really concerned about my dog's masturbating; I don't find
such dog behavior offensive. Eating dog poop, for me, is
another story. And the rate of that behavior has also
diminished with time. :-)

--Marshall

From: der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer)
Date: 1999/07/14
Subject: Re: Puppy adolescence

In article <378CB7A8.757C6...@earthlink.net>

j*.@earthlink.net
writes:

> Myth or fact?
> Our beagle pup has always had her share of attitude
> (c'mon, it called "spunky," mom), but I seem to be
> getting more than my fair share of blank stares these
> days. For example, she's across the room, I tell her
> to come, she stis there, tilts her head and stares at
> me. I can almost hear her little doggie brain thinking
> "wonder what'll happen if I ignore that???"

> Do all dogs have random periods of disobedience or is
> this the doggie-adolescence I've heard about (she's
> 10.5 months)? How long might it last? What's the best
> way to handle it -- do I clamp down a little or just
> wait it out?
> thanks,
> -jill

My dog almost always comes when called. I would assume
that this is because coming is often consequated with
some form of reinforcement like food, petting, the
opportunity to play a game, etc.

But there are some times when he does not come.

These are infrequent. What do I do? I say, "bad dog"
and the moment he starts coming I say "good dog."

Why is "bad dog" effective?

When my dog was a puppy and he did not obey a command,
that was in his repertoire, I would say "bad dog" and
pick him up by the back of his neck and deliver a brief,
"harsh," lecture.

I would assume that in the process, I established "bad
dog" as a powerful conditioned punisher. I also did the
"bad dog" harsh lecture routine, when he would eat his
poop which he seemed to do quite often.

My dog, a Havanese, is quite a "softy" so I quickly
discovered that not much of a "lecture" was needed
to establish "bad dog" as a conditioned punisher.

I should also note that I said "bad dog" in various
ways, including near whispers. The net result is that
"bad dog" functions as a conditioned punisher even
when whispered.

So, if my dog just "sits there" when I say "Max come"
and then I whisper "bad dog," the vocalization in
principle punishes the ongoing behavior and so the dog
is disposed to do something else and that something else
is almost always following the previously issued command.

(You really don't want to issue the same command multiple
times without some consequences for failing to comply, for
then your dog will initially ignore your commands!)

I am NOT a dog trainer. I am a behavioral psychologist
(Associate Professor) who has loved dogs all my life.

I write this because it is likely that Jerry Howe, who
apparently opposes all forms of punishment, will post
a follow-up to this post.

His follow-up will likely not directly answer your
question but instead refer you to his poorly written
training manual or his magic black box that putatively
cures nearly every canine problem.

His follow up, unfortunately is also likely to personally
attack me. You are free, of course, to form your own
opinions and follow Jerry's advice.

I want you to know that although I have used punishment,
infrequentely and in limited ways, my dog is strongly
bonded to me. He follows me everywhere, he sleeps with
me, he cuddles at night with me, and he loves to perch
himself on my legs, much like a cat, when I'm reading a
book or talking to folks with my feet outstretched.

I don't see where the limited use of punishment has
harmed him in any general way. Perhaps, the limited
punishment I have used together with all the postive
reinforcement I have provided for "coming" and "going
down" in the context of drills, in all sorts of settings,
and under all sorts of circumstances, will someday save
his precious life.

I hope this post is helpful (also see below). Diane
Blackman, Avrama Gingold, Paulette Nolan, Ludwig Smith,
Lynne K. and others regularly post great advice here.

Individually we sometimes make mistakes, but collectively
I think we offer a variety of viable approaches limited
mainly by our inability to be with you and your pooch at
your home.

Best wishes,

Marshall

From: <>
To: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: Damned Family Leadership Exercise -

Re: Am I expecting to much

Hi Jerry,

When I talked to you on the phone to order to machine
for daughter's new pup, I told you that I had an older
Chessie. I rescued him at 9 years old and have had
him for 3 years.

It's funny, but I thought I'd try some of your book
training with him. Where I used to say "come" and
then say "good boy" when he obeyed, I have reversed
it with a "good boy" first.

It really does work.

He was very confused at first, wondering what he
had done to get the praise.

But it really gets the attention and distracts him from
whatever he may have going through his brain when
he hears it.

Dogs are funny, but people are too. Can't wait to get
the Doggy do Right, etc.

Thanks,

N

=========

From: "Ray" <mikeflemi...@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 19:41:46 GMT
Subject: re: Jerry Howe

Jerry, I will say this. You catch alot of flak in
this newsgroup and I've been peeping in here for 4
months since I got my Mastiff. I don't know you or
pretend to know you but the things that I've tried
that you've suggested HAS worked.

I've had dogs in the past that I bribed with food
and even spanked with a newspaper and honestly,
that didn't work.

The pack exercise worked, and getting my dog to
come to me is no problem after I used your exercise.

All of this WITHOUT food treats.

Even the "non-physical" praise was foreign to me, but
I see why it's a good idea. I can honestly tell that
this dog is more in tune with me and what I want him
to do and how our relationship should work.

Just wanted to say Thanks, and I may need your help
on a few more issues as they arise, like the border
training.

AND LIKE THIS:

b*.@gmail.com wrote:
> Well I am happy to reply that so far after 10
> minutes of work and the cans from mr Howes guide,

You mean The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual <{); ~ ) >

> I have instilled the "come" command to Riley.

Good. You mean INSTALLED the come command as
a conditional reflex. Be SHORE to perform the
EXXXORCISES four times in each of four locations.

> He is an extremley smart dog, I have never had
> to go to the third or fourth try.

AND LIKE THIS:

Hi, Jerry.

I'm not sure that I'm a 100% convert, or that I agree
with (or even understand) 100% of what you say in this
manual ... BUT ... we had "come" down pat in a few
reps and you could have knocked me down when I tried
the exercise with "drop" and, after a few reps in
different spots Darwin practically *threw* the rubber
ball at my feet on command. He's still not perfect
(just a pup, after all, and he's stubborn enough to
want to push and test me a little bit more).

For what it's worth, I can see (as no doubt you have)
how your usenet manner is likely to rankle a few
folks, but that woman who advocates ear pulling and
beating with sticks deserves everything she gets. Even
if that was the only method that would work, I'd live
with my dog not fetching rather than do any of that.
(Darwin fetches enthusiastically and instinctively,
tho').

Best, ben

-------------

From: Paul B (NOSPAMpaulbou...@clear.net.nz)
Subject: Re: Dog eats poo!
Date: 2000-12-05 00:40:48 PST

I used sound distraction to stop my 2 dogs eating cow poo
during walkies. I posted here a while ago explaining how I
managed to control them from eating it but there were a lot
of sceptics. If your interested I'll be glad to tell you
what worked for me, just let me know and I'll post a thread
on this NG.

Paul
--------

From: Paul B
Date: Sat, Oct 21 2000 2:18 am
Email: "Paul B" <NOSPAMpaulbou...@clear.net.nz>

The sound distraction and praise method he uses is VERY effective,
I use those techniques on my dogs and the results are great. From
teaching a dog to recall to preventing unwanted behaviours (shit
eating, eating the cats food, growling when taking a bone from a
dog, jumping up, even escaping from the property, any behaviour).

To say sound distraction and praise methods don't work is pure
ignorance.

I can understand you not liking Jerry and being pissed off with
the posts he submits but please keep things in context and don't
slam a technique just because you can't stand the person suggesting
using it.

Paul.

------------

Subject: to Jerry Howe
From: MArtog
Date: Wed, Jan 17 2001 12:51 pm
Email: MArtog <mar...@my-deja.com>

Just wanted to say thanks. The method you told me to stop
my dog from eating my other Labs sh-t in the backyard has
worked well.

She has also improved greatly when off leash out in the woods.
She still sniffs (of course), but I rarely need to stop her from
anything else.

I've always been diligent about watching her, and cleaning
up the yard, but ya just can't be there every second. And
she is quick! So, thanks again for the advice.

I feel more confident now when I turn my back.

And to all you folks going yea, sure, right.

THIS IS NOT A TROLL POST. HE gave me advice.

It worked. Plain and simple. Nothing more, nothing less.

So Jerry, allthough I don't lurk here, I'm sure
you're still putting up with DogButt and his ilk.

So good keep up the good work!

Off course DogButt will read this, even thoe it doesn't
have his name on it. Cause he thinks he owns the group.

So to you DogButt.........Well,,,,never mind.

You're already a loser. I don't need to tell you that.

Please feel free to correct my spelling/grammer, etc.
Yes, goodbye, good riddance, blah blah blah.

Later.....
MArtog Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 9:06 AM

--------
From: AIMEE (countrygirl0...@yahoo.com)
Subject: House training and such...
Date: 2003-10-08 16:18:56 PST

I've been having a problem with my dog, Axel,
relieving himself in the house while I'm away
from home.

I've used TPW method's, and yesterday I was out
for 12 hours, and Axel didn't have one single "accident".

Today, I had hoped that the results would be just as
good - and they were (I was out for 11 hours).

The problem began when, as a puppy, Axel would
relieve himself in the house and I would point
at the mess and tell him "NO" or "Bad Dog".

That made him afraid to relieve himself in the
house or infront of me.

After I got TPW's training manual, I corrected my
mishandling of these instances.

When I came home to an "accident", I would simply
drop a can near the area and ask Axel "What's that?"
Then I would clean it up - with out showing him I was
the least bit upset about the mess, and when he looked
at the spot I would tell him "Good boy, you're a good dog".

This has been an ongoing problem, and thanks to the
Puppy Wizard, we've finally got it taken care of...

Also, Axel LOVES the cat's litter box...He enjoys the
"snacks" he can find in there...I followed TPW's methods
by alternating sounds and praising him while or before
he sticks his nose in it, and today, he's been going into
the room with the cat box and barking. That's because
he's thinking about getting into the box, but he knows he
shouldn't.

Thank you, Jerry, for all you help.

You've been a blessing to all of us.

AIMEE

===================

From: Paul
Date: Wed, Dec 6 2000 12:00 am
Email: "Paul B" <NOSPAMpaulbou...@clear.net.nz>

I'm not exactly sure why Jerry is saying to ignore me, it's his
advice that I found was the most successful. During walks in a
particular park the dogs would come across fresh cow pats and
munch away happily.

To stop this I'd set them up, I'd find a nice fresh cow turd and
stand next to it, when the dogs came over and saw it they would
start to munch, at the onset of this I'd chuck a throw chain near
the dog to distract it and praise straight away, the reason for
the praise is the dog stops eating as soon as it hears the distraction
so I'm praising that behaviour, the not eating.

I'd set them up again and repeat, but make the sound come from
a different direction, maybe the first time chuck the chain to
the right of the dog, the next time to the left, then behind etc,
it's the randomness that is effective and always sincerely praise
immediately.

Now when I walk through the park they leave the turds alone,
they aren't interested in them anymore due to the distraction
training. Don't let the dog know that you made the sound, the
sound just "occurs" this is important as it removes "you" out
of the problem.

Paul

-=--=-=-=-=--

> Look, I'm going to be in your area, competing nationally with
> Friday, in August. I invite you to come out and meet me and my
> dog.

HOWE COME do you suppHOWES Show Dog Bark would
want to meet with a miserable stinkin lyin dog abusing punk
thug coward active acute chronic long term incurable mental
case like you, matty?

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?

> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.

> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>

From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST

Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.

Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

---------------

Sometimes my "voice of god" startles human
and dog, especially when the human didn't
see the inappropriate behaviour. --Matt.
Rocky's a Dog.


From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day

Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.

Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14

B*.@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<*.@bellsouth.net>:

> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.

Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.

Why did you blow it?

--Matt

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????

Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?

I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918australianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.

> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.


"dallygirl" <kwickwick@hotmail.com> said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> choke chains are outdated and barbaric in many cases
> causing more harm than good.

Back at you with flat buckle collars. These are an
incredibly abused training tool, what with the number
of handlers I see pulling back and jerking on the leash
with both hands.

It's a good thing that most of us are here because of dogs'
well-being and not an agenda.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!

"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828.07753.00000001@mb-m18.aol.com...

> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss
>
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...

> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916.10096.00001938@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.

An INSENSITIVE DOG???

> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to
it. When he barks, use the line for a correction.-
if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar," Lynn K.

"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.

<except when it is>

"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs. It's a safety
necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.

<except when it is>

"So what? Whoever said that it's right to
always not confront? We sure can try, but
a dog who knows a command and growls when
given it is certainly being confrontational".
You can't simply walk away and pretend it
didn't happen or leave it for later work in
every situation." Lynn K.

--------------------

"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction" --Janet Boss

"Reliable Punishment Cycles, Different Thresholds To Pain
And Punishment, High Tolerance For Correction, Escalation
Of Correction To A Level Where The Dog Yelps When You Punish
Him, Thus Making The Experience One Which The Dog Will Want
To Avoid In The Future," grant teeboon, RAAF.

"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack
Wouldn't Have Done It If He Thought Solo Couldn't
Take It. I Still Crate Him Because Otherwise I Fear
He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.

captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A
ResoundingSound Distraction: "When You Chuck The Dog
The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To The Ears And
Give A Popping Sound To The Dog."

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

On 6 Feb 2006 17:41:08 GMT, Mary Healey <mhhea...@iastate.edu>,
clicked their heels and said:

> Does that include tone of voice? Some tools are easier
> to ban than others.

yes - screaming banshees are told to shut up! And I
always have to remind spouses that they may NOT do the
"honey - you're supposed to be doing it like THIS"......
--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album

lying frosty dahl, oakhill kennels wrote:
Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield
the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them
more sharply

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and
the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist!
Eventually, the dog will give in

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
efforts to escaping the ear pinch

You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell
instead of your thumb even get a studded collar
and pinch the ear against that

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so
urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.

CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready
Right Hand, As it catches on, try using the stick
and no ear pinch.

When the dog is digging out to beat the stick
and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch,
you are finished

If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin,
say "No! Hold!"

(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps because
the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided
it isn't worth it)" lying frosty dahl.

"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.

terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."

"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.

"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.


"Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap,"
professora gingold.

"BethF" <b...@NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.com>
wrote in message
news:v4r8kkfr257e1a@corp.supernews.com...

Kyle, FWIW, i thought it was pretty funny,
and i often call my little dog the turd, because
he is one. Some folks think its HORRRIBLE i
would insult my dog like that so i guess its just a
matter of personality.

Kyle, the best way to teach him to stay away is to
step on him once. Seriously.

"Whatever Motivates The Dog, But I Daresay Most
Of The Dogs I Have In Classes Just Aren't That
Interested In Praise."

"BethF" <d...@alaska.com> wrote in message
news:uohnj3r4a4e85e@corp.supernews.com...

Maybe that's what we should do - hold back the dobie
girl so that Izzy can put Simon in his place.

"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness," mustang sally.

"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.

This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.

Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
Subject: Re: shock collars

Sally Hennessey <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63h8ekqiforibadrff2@4ax.com...

Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-
righteous, this post shows and absence of knowledge
in the differences in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps
a lack of ability to perceive same.

The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to
whom corrections and discomfort, even pain, were
unimportant does not mean that such dogs do not exist.

What it means is that you don't know as much about
dogs as you think you do, and you surely don't know
a damn thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.

I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with
one of her housemates; that dog had no fear or
anything, and pain incurred during a fight meant
nothing to her.

I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that
you, Alison, continue to say things to people such as
what you said to Theresa about causing her dog to
suffer (at least I guess that's what you meant by
"you cause your dog suffers" - - must be the King's
English you guys talk about over there) means that
you are an ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person
who is not worth further notice.

Sally Hennessey

"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv128jnumgmb2m27opr@4ax.com...

Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.

I'm starting to see some similarities here.

Sally Hennessey

THAT'S sumpthin to be PR-HOWED abHOWET, eh matty?

From: Rocky
Date: Mon, May 29 2006 3:23 pm
Email: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>

"showdogbark" <jotnarin...@yahoo.com> said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> Perhaps that may be his point in his
> passion to help dogs he may be trying to expose the case
> histories of the people on the forum to show that
> underneath the caring about dogs lie case histories of
> abuse. This is my guess only.

Post proof of abuse or retract.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

Oh, bye the bye, matty, THAT'S HOWE COME you and your
lyin dog abusing punk thug coward active acute chronic long
term incurable mental case pals CAN'T POST HERE abHOWETS
nodoGdameneDMOORE.

REMEMBER NHOWE, matty?

The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >


H*@HotMail.Com
2006-05-30 02:53:00 EST
HOWEDY matty you miserable stinkin lyin dog abusing punk thug
coward active acute chronic long term incurable mental case and
illegal doggy day care FRAUD and SCAM ARTIST,

Rocky wrote:
> "showdogbark" <jotnaringin@yahoo.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > I said that Jerry posts the proof of abuse by posting case histories.

Yeah. CASE HISTORIES of miserable lyin dog abusing punk thug
cowards and active acute chronic long term incurable mental cases
like matty and his pals hurtin intimidatin mutilatin an murderin
innocent
defenseless dumb critters an LYIN abHOWET it <{) ; ~ ) >

> He posts stories.

You need "MOORE INFORMATION", matty?

If you KNEW HOWE to CURE phobias like fear of thunder and
separation anXXXIHOWESNESS and HOWEsbreakin problems
and obsessive compulsive SHIT EATIN, YOU'D PUT YOURSELF
clean HOWETA your ILLEGAL DOGGY DAY CARE BUSINESS,
wouldn't you, matty.

Here's you COMPLAININ on accHOWENT of Robin CURED her
12 year old dog of FEAR OF THUNDER and SEPARATION
ANXXXIHOWESNESS NEARLY INSTANTLY:

Rocky wrote:
> Robin said in rec.pets.dogs.health:
> > Jerry, you give the lying dog abusing punk thug coward
> > mental cases too much credit for the ability to influence

Naaah, The Amazing Puppy Wizard was just BAITING these lying
dog abusing punk thug coward mental cases again <{); ~ ) >

> You really are a piece of work.

INDEEDY, matty. Robin studied and followed the INSTRUCTIONS in her
own FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual and REPORTED her 100% NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS
RIGHT HERE on The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End
Dog Training Method Manual Forums And SCHOOL Of HARD KNOCKS
And HUMAN BEHAVIOR RESEARCH LABORATORIES, matty <{); ~ ) >

You're settin in it <{); ~ ) >

> Keep this out of the health groups, 'kay?

Dogs DIE from separation anXXXIHOWESNESS, matty, JUST
LIKE HOWE your own DEATHLY ILL dog Rocky is DYIN from
STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASE aka The Puppy
Wizard's SYNDROME, on accHOWENT of you're a lyin dog
abusin punk thug coward MENTAL CASE, matty, and you
can't post here abHOWETS nodoGgamenedMOORE <{); ~ ) >

IN FACT, Robin followed up on her original 100% NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL REPORT with a other WON, matty.
PERHAPS you'd like to READ IT, eh matty?

Of curse not! Oh, bye the bye matty, The Freakin Simply Amazing
Puppy Wizard SEZ you and your punk thug coward active acute
chronic long term incurable mental case pals CAN'T POST HERE
abHOWETS nodoGdamenedMOORE.

Here's a other STORY, matty:

Rocky wrote:
> "JL" <jarin_...@sympatico.ca> said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> > OK Matt was asking how do I react to his behaviour.

If matty could tell you HOWE to train a dog he'd PUT HISSELF
HOWETA his ILLEGAL DOGGY DAY CARE BUSINESS.

> > Well I try to ignore him but sometimes I'll pet him telling
> > him it's OK which seems the wrong thing to do from reading
> > posts and I'll stop doing it.

> Good!

> Do you understand, though, *why* you shouldn't tell your dog that it's OK?

On accHOWENT of it'll make YOU and your miserable stinkin
lyin dog abusing punk thug coward active acute chronic long
term incurable mental case pals LOOK like LYIN DOG ABUSIN
MENTAL CASES, ain't that correct, matty?

> It goes to the heart of desensitization.

INDEED? Seems you don't understand what you're talkin
abHOWET, matty. TELLIN the dog "it's O.K." is GOOD.

TOUCHIN the dog while tellin him "it's O.K." or offerin FOOD
REWARDS locks his thinkin on his PHOBIA and IS therefore,
BAD. VERY BAD, matty.

> > Someone over the weekend was suggesting getting a CD
> > with sound of thunder on it and to start playing it softly and
> > prassing the dog.

They're PROBABLY SELLIN IT. NO PROBLEMO, IT DON'T WORK.

> Timing is important -

Yeah. You gotta PRAISE the dog INSTANTLY to the sound and IN ADVANCE.

> you don't want to reward your dog while he's afraid.

You mean by PATTING FEEDING or TOUCHIN IT, matty?

So called REWARDS for BAD BEHAVIORS REINFORCES them, matty.
Like offerin TREATS when the dog is AFRAID, REWARDS the dog
FOR BEIN AFRAID, matty <{): ~ ) >

> > Problem with this is I guess finding a CD with thunder on it.

> Even if you find such a recording, it may not work.

Of curse IT WON'T WORK, matty, it's a SCAM. HOWEver,
you can BUY those SCAM tapes at your punk thug coward
active acute chronic long term incurable mental case
pal Master Of Deception blankman's site dogplay.CON.

> Theories abound that it's not just the sound, but vibration,
> pressure changes, handler thunder discomfort, handler
> anticipation at the dog being discomfited....

You mean the same kinda BULLSHIT you been sellin, matty?

> I worked Good Ol' Murphy through the worst part of her thunder fear

You mean YOU NEVER DID CURE HER FEAR OF THUNDER, matty,
on accHOWENT of FEAR OF ANYTHING is CAUSED by ABUSE.

> after we moved to an area that has a ton of storms during some times of the year.

The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Students REPORT CURING ALL temperament and
behavior problems NEARLY INSTANTLY simply by DOIN EVERYTHING
EXXXACTLY PRECISELY OPPOSITE of HOWE you been tryin to misadvise
people so you can CONtinue your fraudulent doggy day care SCAM.

YOU CALL THEM LIARS and FORGERIES by The Freakin
Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard. REMEMBER matty?

> I'd sit in the bay window with her watching the storm, me
> with a glass of wine and a bunch of treats, counting the
> seconds between boomers and treating her just before--and
> jackpotting during--the scary parts.

THAT'S INSANE, matty.

Better stick to drinkin wine alone...

> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

HERE'S HOWE COME your dog FEARS ANYTHING, matty:

"I wouldn't do anything because Friday would correct him more
appropriately than I ever could. I'd separate them or watch them
closely. If I can catch them at it before the behaviour itself becomes
rewarding, I use my marker word. If I can catch them even earlier
(when the intent to commit misbehaviour is forming in their evil
minds), distraction works. The latter works better than the former
when it comes to their protecting me from the mailman. Management,
redirection, distraction, aversives, Paula's socks, combinations
thereof -
it's all good," matt. Rocky's my epileptic dog.

AND THAT'S HOWE COME YOUR DOG EATS SHIT, matty:

HOWEDY matty,

Rocky wrote:
> Simon said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> > I have two dogs and my English Setter has been eating
> > feces, both his own as well as my other dog's feces. On
> > walks, he will eat other dog's feces as well.

> This is very common.

Yeah. It's a NEUROTIC behavior LEARNED from bein
PUNISHED for shittin in the HOWES, matty.

> All I can suggest is the following:

Your own dog GOT THE SAME PROBLEM, REMEMBER matty?

> Immediately pick up the poo in the areas over
> which you have control.

You mean, INSTEAD of just TRAINING the dog NOT TO EAT
SHIT, in a couple moments of non physical praise, matty?

> On walks, keep him on a leash and pay attention.

THAT NEVER WORKS, matty.

> Try a different food.

THAT'S INSANE, matty.

> For what it's worth,

What it's WORTH is YOU GOT NO ADVICE. Your own DEATHLY
ILL DOG Rocky GOT THE SAME PROBLEM on accHOWENT of you
ABUSE him, matty. What it's WORTH are DEATHLY ILL and
DEAD DOGS, matty.

> no matter the reason he started eating poo,

You got NO METHOD to TRAIN the dog NOT TO DO IT, matty.

> he now likes it and it's become a habit you have to break.

You got any TRAININ suggestions, matty?

> You probably won't have to keep him on leash forever,

You think the dog will FORGET to eat poo when IT can't be
forced and jerked and choked not to do that someMOORE?

> just until you've taught a good recall or a good "leave it."

HOWE is THAT gonna TRAIN the dog NOT TO EAT SHIT, matty?

> My Rocky was/is a poo eater,

SHAAAZZZAAAMMM?

> though now only when it's winter frozen or sun dried -

BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!

> both are avoidable situations.

HOWE, matty? HOWE do you AVOID FROZEN / DRIED SHIT, matty?

> As to watching your Setter on a 24/7 basis,
> of course that's not possible in most situations,

So you LOCK THE DOG IN A BOX, matty.

> but your *care* should be 24/7.

That so?

> That is, when he's not supervised, he should
> be in a situation where he can't do what you
> don't want him to do.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!

> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Marshall Dermer" <der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:e55s2t$40t$1@uwm.edu...

Amen Brother Matt!! :-)

--Marshall

"BTW Jerry, the sound/noise training is working so far.
And yes, I still clean the yard every other day, but
now there is feces from Both dogs. Thanks Jer!," Marty.

From: der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer)
Date: 1999/12/21
Subject: Re: Doc Dermer's offer

In article <tfR74.1$W64....@typhoon3.tampabay.rr.com> "Jerry Howe"

<*.@cfl.rr.com> writes:
> Lemme aks you sumthin, doc? When you punish your dog,
> do you find that he masturbates more frequently after
> such instances? (referring to your post about your dog
> using a pillow to get himself off)

First, I punish behavior, not dogs.

Second, I rarely issue corrections.

Third, as time goes on my dog uses the pillow less frequently.

I would say he uses it about once a month. Finally, I'm not
really concerned about my dog's masturbating; I don't find
such dog behavior offensive. Eating dog poop, for me, is
another story. And the rate of that behavior has also
diminished with time. :-)

--Marshall

From: der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer)
Date: 1999/07/14
Subject: Re: Puppy adolescence

In article <378CB7A8.757C6...@earthlink.net>

j*.@earthlink.net
writes:

> Myth or fact?
> Our beagle pup has always had her share of attitude
> (c'mon, it called "spunky," mom), but I seem to be
> getting more than my fair share of blank stares these
> days. For example, she's across the room, I tell her
> to come, she stis there, tilts her head and stares at
> me. I can almost hear her little doggie brain thinking
> "wonder what'll happen if I ignore that???"

> Do all dogs have random periods of disobedience or is
> this the doggie-adolescence I've heard about (she's
> 10.5 months)? How long might it last? What's the best
> way to handle it -- do I clamp down a little or just
> wait it out?
> thanks,
> -jill

My dog almost always comes when called. I would assume
that this is because coming is often consequated with
some form of reinforcement like food, petting, the
opportunity to play a game, etc.

But there are some times when he does not come.

These are infrequent. What do I do? I say, "bad dog"
and the moment he starts coming I say "good dog."

Why is "bad dog" effective?

When my dog was a puppy and he did not obey a command,
that was in his repertoire, I would say "bad dog" and
pick him up by the back of his neck and deliver a brief,
"harsh," lecture.

I would assume that in the process, I established "bad
dog" as a powerful conditioned punisher. I also did the
"bad dog" harsh lecture routine, when he would eat his
poop which he seemed to do quite often.

My dog, a Havanese, is quite a "softy" so I quickly
discovered that not much of a "lecture" was needed
to establish "bad dog" as a conditioned punisher.

I should also note that I said "bad dog" in various
ways, including near whispers. The net result is that
"bad dog" functions as a conditioned punisher even
when whispered.

So, if my dog just "sits there" when I say "Max come"
and then I whisper "bad dog," the vocalization in
principle punishes the ongoing behavior and so the dog
is disposed to do something else and that something else
is almost always following the previously issued command.

(You really don't want to issue the same command multiple
times without some consequences for failing to comply, for
then your dog will initially ignore your commands!)

I am NOT a dog trainer. I am a behavioral psychologist
(Associate Professor) who has loved dogs all my life.

I write this because it is likely that Jerry Howe, who
apparently opposes all forms of punishment, will post
a follow-up to this post.

His follow-up will likely not directly answer your
question but instead refer you to his poorly written
training manual or his magic black box that putatively
cures nearly every canine problem.

His follow up, unfortunately is also likely to personally
attack me. You are free, of course, to form your own
opinions and follow Jerry's advice.

I want you to know that although I have used punishment,
infrequentely and in limited ways, my dog is strongly
bonded to me. He follows me everywhere, he sleeps with
me, he cuddles at night with me, and he loves to perch
himself on my legs, much like a cat, when I'm reading a
book or talking to folks with my feet outstretched.

I don't see where the limited use of punishment has
harmed him in any general way. Perhaps, the limited
punishment I have used together with all the postive
reinforcement I have provided for "coming" and "going
down" in the context of drills, in all sorts of settings,
and under all sorts of circumstances, will someday save
his precious life.

I hope this post is helpful (also see below). Diane
Blackman, Avrama Gingold, Paulette Nolan, Ludwig Smith,
Lynne K. and others regularly post great advice here.

Individually we sometimes make mistakes, but collectively
I think we offer a variety of viable approaches limited
mainly by our inability to be with you and your pooch at
your home.

Best wishes,

Marshall

From: <>
To: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: Damned Family Leadership Exercise -

Re: Am I expecting to much

Hi Jerry,

When I talked to you on the phone to order to machine
for daughter's new pup, I told you that I had an older
Chessie. I rescued him at 9 years old and have had
him for 3 years.

It's funny, but I thought I'd try some of your book
training with him. Where I used to say "come" and
then say "good boy" when he obeyed, I have reversed
it with a "good boy" first.

It really does work.

He was very confused at first, wondering what he
had done to get the praise.

But it really gets the attention and distracts him from
whatever he may have going through his brain when
he hears it.

Dogs are funny, but people are too. Can't wait to get
the Doggy do Right, etc.

Thanks,

N

=========

From: "Ray" <mikeflemi...@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 19:41:46 GMT
Subject: re: Jerry Howe

Jerry, I will say this. You catch alot of flak in
this newsgroup and I've been peeping in here for 4
months since I got my Mastiff. I don't know you or
pretend to know you but the things that I've tried
that you've suggested HAS worked.

I've had dogs in the past that I bribed with food
and even spanked with a newspaper and honestly,
that didn't work.

The pack exercise worked, and getting my dog to
come to me is no problem after I used your exercise.

All of this WITHOUT food treats.

Even the "non-physical" praise was foreign to me, but
I see why it's a good idea. I can honestly tell that
this dog is more in tune with me and what I want him
to do and how our relationship should work.

Just wanted to say Thanks, and I may need your help
on a few more issues as they arise, like the border
training.

AND LIKE THIS:

b*.@gmail.com wrote:
> Well I am happy to reply that so far after 10
> minutes of work and the cans from mr Howes guide,

You mean The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual <{); ~ ) >

> I have instilled the "come" command to Riley.

Good. You mean INSTALLED the come command as
a conditional reflex. Be SHORE to perform the
EXXXORCISES four times in each of four locations.

> He is an extremley smart dog, I have never had
> to go to the third or fourth try.

AND LIKE THIS:

Hi, Jerry.

I'm not sure that I'm a 100% convert, or that I agree
with (or even understand) 100% of what you say in this
manual ... BUT ... we had "come" down pat in a few
reps and you could have knocked me down when I tried
the exercise with "drop" and, after a few reps in
different spots Darwin practically *threw* the rubber
ball at my feet on command. He's still not perfect
(just a pup, after all, and he's stubborn enough to
want to push and test me a little bit more).

For what it's worth, I can see (as no doubt you have)
how your usenet manner is likely to rankle a few
folks, but that woman who advocates ear pulling and
beating with sticks deserves everything she gets. Even
if that was the only method that would work, I'd live
with my dog not fetching rather than do any of that.
(Darwin fetches enthusiastically and instinctively,
tho').

Best, ben

-------------

From: Paul B (NOSPAMpaulbou...@clear.net.nz)
Subject: Re: Dog eats poo!
Date: 2000-12-05 00:40:48 PST

I used sound distraction to stop my 2 dogs eating cow poo
during walkies. I posted here a while ago explaining how I
managed to control them from eating it but there were a lot
of sceptics. If your interested I'll be glad to tell you
what worked for me, just let me know and I'll post a thread
on this NG.

Paul
--------

From: Paul B
Date: Sat, Oct 21 2000 2:18 am
Email: "Paul B" <NOSPAMpaulbou...@clear.net.nz>

The sound distraction and praise method he uses is VERY effective,
I use those techniques on my dogs and the results are great. From
teaching a dog to recall to preventing unwanted behaviours (shit
eating, eating the cats food, growling when taking a bone from a
dog, jumping up, even escaping from the property, any behaviour).

To say sound distraction and praise methods don't work is pure
ignorance.

I can understand you not liking Jerry and being pissed off with
the posts he submits but please keep things in context and don't
slam a technique just because you can't stand the person suggesting
using it.

Paul.

------------

Subject: to Jerry Howe
From: MArtog
Date: Wed, Jan 17 2001 12:51 pm
Email: MArtog <mar...@my-deja.com>

Just wanted to say thanks. The method you told me to stop
my dog from eating my other Labs sh-t in the backyard has
worked well.

She has also improved greatly when off leash out in the woods.
She still sniffs (of course), but I rarely need to stop her from
anything else.

I've always been diligent about watching her, and cleaning
up the yard, but ya just can't be there every second. And
she is quick! So, thanks again for the advice.

I feel more confident now when I turn my back.

And to all you folks going yea, sure, right.

THIS IS NOT A TROLL POST. HE gave me advice.

It worked. Plain and simple. Nothing more, nothing less.

So Jerry, allthough I don't lurk here, I'm sure
you're still putting up with DogButt and his ilk.

So good keep up the good work!

Off course DogButt will read this, even thoe it doesn't
have his name on it. Cause he thinks he owns the group.

So to you DogButt.........Well,,,,never mind.

You're already a loser. I don't need to tell you that.

Please feel free to correct my spelling/grammer, etc.
Yes, goodbye, good riddance, blah blah blah.

Later.....
MArtog Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 9:06 AM

--------
From: AIMEE (countrygirl0...@yahoo.com)
Subject: House training and such...
Date: 2003-10-08 16:18:56 PST

I've been having a problem with my dog, Axel,
relieving himself in the house while I'm away
from home.

I've used TPW method's, and yesterday I was out
for 12 hours, and Axel didn't have one single "accident".

Today, I had hoped that the results would be just as
good - and they were (I was out for 11 hours).

The problem began when, as a puppy, Axel would
relieve himself in the house and I would point
at the mess and tell him "NO" or "Bad Dog".

That made him afraid to relieve himself in the
house or infront of me.

After I got TPW's training manual, I corrected my
mishandling of these instances.

When I came home to an "accident", I would simply
drop a can near the area and ask Axel "What's that?"
Then I would clean it up - with out showing him I was
the least bit upset about the mess, and when he looked
at the spot I would tell him "Good boy, you're a good dog".

This has been an ongoing problem, and thanks to the
Puppy Wizard, we've finally got it taken care of...

Also, Axel LOVES the cat's litter box...He enjoys the
"snacks" he can find in there...I followed TPW's methods
by alternating sounds and praising him while or before
he sticks his nose in it, and today, he's been going into
the room with the cat box and barking. That's because
he's thinking about getting into the box, but he knows he
shouldn't.

Thank you, Jerry, for all you help.

You've been a blessing to all of us.

AIMEE

===================

From: Paul
Date: Wed, Dec 6 2000 12:00 am
Email: "Paul B" <NOSPAMpaulbou...@clear.net.nz>

I'm not exactly sure why Jerry is saying to ignore me, it's his
advice that I found was the most successful. During walks in a
particular park the dogs would come across fresh cow pats and
munch away happily.

To stop this I'd set them up, I'd find a nice fresh cow turd and
stand next to it, when the dogs came over and saw it they would
start to munch, at the onset of this I'd chuck a throw chain near
the dog to distract it and praise straight away, the reason for
the praise is the dog stops eating as soon as it hears the distraction
so I'm praising that behaviour, the not eating.

I'd set them up again and repeat, but make the sound come from
a different direction, maybe the first time chuck the chain to
the right of the dog, the next time to the left, then behind etc,
it's the randomness that is effective and always sincerely praise
immediately.

Now when I walk through the park they leave the turds alone,
they aren't interested in them anymore due to the distraction
training. Don't let the dog know that you made the sound, the
sound just "occurs" this is important as it removes "you" out
of the problem.

Paul

-=--=-=-=-=--

> Look, I'm going to be in your area, competing nationally with
> Friday, in August. I invite you to come out and meet me and my
> dog.

HOWE COME do you suppHOWES Show Dog Bark would
want to meet with a miserable stinkin lyin dog abusing punk
thug coward active acute chronic long term incurable mental
case like you, matty?

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?

> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.

> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>

From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST

Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.

Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

---------------

Sometimes my "voice of god" startles human
and dog, especially when the human didn't
see the inappropriate behaviour. --Matt.
Rocky's a Dog.


From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day

Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.

Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14

B*.@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<*.@bellsouth.net>:

> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.

Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.

Why did you blow it?

--Matt

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????

Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?

I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918australianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.

> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.


"dallygirl" <kwickwick@hotmail.com> said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> choke chains are outdated and barbaric in many cases
> causing more harm than good.

Back at you with flat buckle collars. These are an
incredibly abused training tool, what with the number
of handlers I see pulling back and jerking on the leash
with both hands.

It's a good thing that most of us are here because of dogs'
well-being and not an agenda.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!

"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828.07753.00000001@mb-m18.aol.com...

> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss
>
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...

> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916.10096.00001938@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.

An INSENSITIVE DOG???

> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to
it. When he barks, use the line for a correction.-
if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar," Lynn K.

"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.

<except when it is>

"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs. It's a safety
necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.

<except when it is>

"So what? Whoever said that it's right to
always not confront? We sure can try, but
a dog who knows a command and growls when
given it is certainly being confrontational".
You can't simply walk away and pretend it
didn't happen or leave it for later work in
every situation." Lynn K.

--------------------

"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction" --Janet Boss

"Reliable Punishment Cycles, Different Thresholds To Pain
And Punishment, High Tolerance For Correction, Escalation
Of Correction To A Level Where The Dog Yelps When You Punish
Him, Thus Making The Experience One Which The Dog Will Want
To Avoid In The Future," grant teeboon, RAAF.

"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack
Wouldn't Have Done It If He Thought Solo Couldn't
Take It. I Still Crate Him Because Otherwise I Fear
He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.

captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A
ResoundingSound Distraction: "When You Chuck The Dog
The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To The Ears And
Give A Popping Sound To The Dog."

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

On 6 Feb 2006 17:41:08 GMT, Mary Healey <mhhea...@iastate.edu>,
clicked their heels and said:

> Does that include tone of voice? Some tools are easier
> to ban than others.

yes - screaming banshees are told to shut up! And I
always have to remind spouses that they may NOT do the
"honey - you're supposed to be doing it like THIS"......
--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album

lying frosty dahl, oakhill kennels wrote:
Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield
the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them
more sharply

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and
the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist!
Eventually, the dog will give in

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
efforts to escaping the ear pinch

You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell
instead of your thumb even get a studded collar
and pinch the ear against that

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so
urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.

CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready
Right Hand, As it catches on, try using the stick
and no ear pinch.

When the dog is digging out to beat the stick
and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch,
you are finished

If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin,
say "No! Hold!"

(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps because
the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided
it isn't worth it)" lying frosty dahl.

"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.

terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."

"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.

"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.


"Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap,"
professora gingold.

"BethF" <b...@NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.com>
wrote in message
news:v4r8kkfr257e1a@corp.supernews.com...

Kyle, FWIW, i thought it was pretty funny,
and i often call my little dog the turd, because
he is one. Some folks think its HORRRIBLE i
would insult my dog like that so i guess its just a
matter of personality.

Kyle, the best way to teach him to stay away is to
step on him once. Seriously.

"Whatever Motivates The Dog, But I Daresay Most
Of The Dogs I Have In Classes Just Aren't That
Interested In Praise."

"BethF" <d...@alaska.com> wrote in message
news:uohnj3r4a4e85e@corp.supernews.com...

Maybe that's what we should do - hold back the dobie
girl so that Izzy can put Simon in his place.

"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness," mustang sally.

"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.

This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.

Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
Subject: Re: shock collars

Sally Hennessey <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63h8ekqiforibadrff2@4ax.com...

Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-
righteous, this post shows and absence of knowledge
in the differences in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps
a lack of ability to perceive same.

The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to
whom corrections and discomfort, even pain, were
unimportant does not mean that such dogs do not exist.

What it means is that you don't know as much about
dogs as you think you do, and you surely don't know
a damn thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.

I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with
one of her housemates; that dog had no fear or
anything, and pain incurred during a fight meant
nothing to her.

I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that
you, Alison, continue to say things to people such as
what you said to Theresa about causing her dog to
suffer (at least I guess that's what you meant by
"you cause your dog suffers" - - must be the King's
English you guys talk about over there) means that
you are an ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person
who is not worth further notice.

Sally Hennessey

"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv128jnumgmb2m27opr@4ax.com...

Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.

I'm starting to see some similarities here.

Sally Hennessey

THAT'S sumpthin to be PR-HOWED abHOWET, eh matty?

From: Rocky
Date: Mon, May 29 2006 3:23 pm
Email: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>

"showdogbark" <jotnarin...@yahoo.com> said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> Perhaps that may be his point in his
> passion to help dogs he may be trying to expose the case
> histories of the people on the forum to show that
> underneath the caring about dogs lie case histories of
> abuse. This is my guess only.

Post proof of abuse or retract.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

Oh, bye the bye, matty, THAT'S HOWE COME you and your
lyin dog abusing punk thug coward active acute chronic long
term incurable mental case pals CAN'T POST HERE abHOWETS
nodoGdameneDMOORE.

REMEMBER NHOWE, matty?

The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >


H*@hotmail.com
2006-05-30 03:23:26 EST
HOWEDY matty you miserable sinkin lyin dog abusing punk thug coward
active acute chronic long term incurable mental case fraud,

Rocky wrote:
> "showdogbark" <jotnaringin@yahoo.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > Perhaps that may be his point in his
> > passion to help dogs he may be trying to expose the case
> > histories of the people on the forum to show that
> > underneath the caring about dogs lie case histories of
> > abuse. This is my guess only.

>From The Annals Of Human And Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences
Research Laboratory

Subject: Praising BAD Behaviors Is GOOD

Marshall Dermer wrote:
> In article <3E62C8D0.4080...@netscape.net>

> ThePuppyWiz...@netscape.net writes:

>> HOWEDY People,

>> This post will cover most of what you never thought of
>> and MOORE than you already know about stuff...

> If this post was written by Jerry Howe then I offer my
> congratulations to Jerry on having posted such positive material.

> --Marshall Dermer

> Post proof of abuse or retract.

"Marshall Dermer" <der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:e55s2t$40t$1@uwm.edu...

Amen Brother Matt!! :-)

--Marshall

> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

NHOWE get the heel HOWETA The Freakin SImply
Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Forums.

The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >

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