Dog Discussion: Dog In Car

Dog In Car
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Larry Hodges
2003-06-26 19:13:29 EST
Here's the situation:

Temperature: 88 degrees (according to Yahoo, as of 7:01 PM when I checked).
Time: 6:48 PM.
Location: Parked (in the shade) in a parking lot outside a supermarket.
Windows: All four down about 2 inches.
Dog: In the car.
Me: Out for less than three minutes to get cash from a cash machine.
Situation: A women accosted me in the parking lot for this, and is reporting
me to the police. As I explained to the woman, I'll be able to show that I
didn't even purchase anything in the store (she could see I wasn't carrying
any groceries), that I only used the cash machine, which was perhaps 50 feet
from where I was parked. Woman says it was dangerous to even leave my dog in
the car for one minute in these conditions, and is reporting me for
endangering my dog.

So ... was it dangerous to leave a dog in a car for three minutes in the
above conditions? Or was the woman an extremist looking for trouble?

-Larry



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ZPL
2003-06-26 19:25:41 EST
Got a note from a friend in Arlington Texas. Some people do not have the
common sense that you do. To the point where it is now against the law to
leave a dog (pet) unattended in the car AT ANY TIME. Summer or winter.

(But there is no law against leaving kids in the car....)

"Larry Hodges" <larry@larrytt.com> wrote in message
news:3efb7e19$1_1@news4.uncensored-news.com...
> Here's the situation:
>
> Temperature: 88 degrees (according to Yahoo, as of 7:01 PM when I
checked).
> Time: 6:48 PM.
> Location: Parked (in the shade) in a parking lot outside a supermarket.
> Windows: All four down about 2 inches.
> Dog: In the car.
> Me: Out for less than three minutes to get cash from a cash machine.
> Situation: A women accosted me in the parking lot for this, and is
reporting
> me to the police. As I explained to the woman, I'll be able to show that I
> didn't even purchase anything in the store (she could see I wasn't
carrying
> any groceries), that I only used the cash machine, which was perhaps 50
feet
> from where I was parked. Woman says it was dangerous to even leave my dog
in
> the car for one minute in these conditions, and is reporting me for
> endangering my dog.
>
> So ... was it dangerous to leave a dog in a car for three minutes in the
> above conditions? Or was the woman an extremist looking for trouble?
>
> -Larry
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 -
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<><><><><><><><>
>



Diddy
2003-06-26 19:31:54 EST
Larry Hodges wrote:
>
> Here's the situation:
>
> Temperature: 88 degrees (according to Yahoo, as of 7:01 PM when I checked).
> Time: 6:48 PM.
> Location: Parked (in the shade) in a parking lot outside a supermarket.
> Windows: All four down about 2 inches.
> Dog: In the car.
> Me: Out for less than three minutes to get cash from a cash machine.
> Situation: A women accosted me in the parking lot for this, and is reporting
> me to the police. As I explained to the woman, I'll be able to show that I
> didn't even purchase anything in the store (she could see I wasn't carrying
> any groceries), that I only used the cash machine, which was perhaps 50 feet
> from where I was parked. Woman says it was dangerous to even leave my dog in
> the car for one minute in these conditions, and is reporting me for
> endangering my dog.
>
> So ... was it dangerous to leave a dog in a car for three minutes in the
> above conditions? Or was the woman an extremist looking for trouble?
>
> -Larry
>
If the dog was not panting excessively or showing signs of stress, she
was being over vigilant. Yes, in three minutes, a closed car can elevate
temperatures rapidly. I don't think it woulod endanger a dog for that
short time though. That said, I've seen a dog die in a car in 100
degree temperature in a hatchback, with the hatch open, the back hatch
was covered with a tarp to provide shade, and all the windows were open.
The dog died of heat exhaustion.
If the dog was calm, everything should be ok, for just 3 minutes,
especially if the windows were open.
If the dog was excited, barking and moving around excitedly because you
were missing, this could generate enough internal heat to cause a
problem. Leaving the dog alone also is dependent on the dog temperament.
If the woman has a problem, you should ask her to check the dog's inner
core temperature. That should tell the tale.
That said, It's been 90+ degrees here the past couple days. The dogs
have been in my car with the windows open, and all dooors open,
including the side van doors, and I've left them. They all were resting
comfortbly, quietly, and obviously unstressed, and I have had people
warn me about the dangers of leaving my dog in a car unattended in this
heat. I pointed to two relaxed and obviously comfortable dogs, and said,
look for yourself lady, get a clue. These are NOT hot dogs

Larry Hodges
2003-06-26 19:58:12 EST
There was no sign my dog (25 pound corgi) was in any stress at all. If she
were, I'm sure the woman would have called 911. The dog was lying down
quietly waiting for me to return, chewing a chew toy I'd left for her, as
she usually does. I often take her with me when I run short errands, but not
when the heat is too great or if I'm going to be out of the car for more
than a few minutes.

I guess the question is whether or not a car in the shade (a light colored
one, I might ad, so it reflects more sunlight) in 88 degrees (at nearly 7PM
at night) with four windows down 2 inches can heat up and hurt a dog in 3
minutes. I believe this is nonsense - the temperature was rather cool, in
comparison to the 98 degrees we'd faced earlier in the day. I had walked my
dog that afternoon for 15 minutes in 94 degree heat (in the woods, so also
in the shade), and both of us were fine. (And I made sure she had plenty of
water available before and after the walk!)

-Larry

"diddy" <diddy@nospam.diddy.net> wrote in message
news:3EFB826A.2AC567F7@nospam.diddy.net...
> Larry Hodges wrote:
> >
> > Here's the situation:
> >
> > Temperature: 88 degrees (according to Yahoo, as of 7:01 PM when I
checked).
> > Time: 6:48 PM.
> > Location: Parked (in the shade) in a parking lot outside a supermarket.
> > Windows: All four down about 2 inches.
> > Dog: In the car.
> > Me: Out for less than three minutes to get cash from a cash machine.
> > Situation: A women accosted me in the parking lot for this, and is
reporting
> > me to the police. As I explained to the woman, I'll be able to show that
I
> > didn't even purchase anything in the store (she could see I wasn't
carrying
> > any groceries), that I only used the cash machine, which was perhaps 50
feet
> > from where I was parked. Woman says it was dangerous to even leave my
dog in
> > the car for one minute in these conditions, and is reporting me for
> > endangering my dog.
> >
> > So ... was it dangerous to leave a dog in a car for three minutes in the
> > above conditions? Or was the woman an extremist looking for trouble?
> >
> > -Larry
> >
> If the dog was not panting excessively or showing signs of stress, she
> was being over vigilant. Yes, in three minutes, a closed car can elevate
> temperatures rapidly. I don't think it woulod endanger a dog for that
> short time though. That said, I've seen a dog die in a car in 100
> degree temperature in a hatchback, with the hatch open, the back hatch
> was covered with a tarp to provide shade, and all the windows were open.
> The dog died of heat exhaustion.
> If the dog was calm, everything should be ok, for just 3 minutes,
> especially if the windows were open.
> If the dog was excited, barking and moving around excitedly because you
> were missing, this could generate enough internal heat to cause a
> problem. Leaving the dog alone also is dependent on the dog temperament.
> If the woman has a problem, you should ask her to check the dog's inner
> core temperature. That should tell the tale.
> That said, It's been 90+ degrees here the past couple days. The dogs
> have been in my car with the windows open, and all dooors open,
> including the side van doors, and I've left them. They all were resting
> comfortbly, quietly, and obviously unstressed, and I have had people
> warn me about the dangers of leaving my dog in a car unattended in this
> heat. I pointed to two relaxed and obviously comfortable dogs, and said,
> look for yourself lady, get a clue. These are NOT hot dogs



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Krishur
2003-06-27 08:39:21 EST
I wouldn't call the woman an "extremist looking for trouble". She was
genuinely concerned for a dog that she saw sitting in a car with cracked
(not open) windows on a very hot day. I too would've been worried about him.

I don't take my dog anywhere in the car when I know she's going to be left
alone when it's over 75 degrees--unless I leave my car running w/the a/c on.

Something could've happened to detain you. A car will heat up to over 100
degrees (even in the shade) and your dog could've died--is it worth the
risk? Get a second set of car keys and lock the car, running w/the a/c on if
you must take your dog out with you during the summer.

More info on dogs in cars during summer:
http://www.api4animals.org/doc.asp?ID=87

my .02

--
Kristen &
Kali CD, CGC, TDI, TT
http://www.kristenandkali.com


"Larry Hodges" <larry@larrytt.com> wrote in message
news:3efb7e19$1_1@news4.uncensored-news.com...
> Here's the situation:
>
> Temperature: 88 degrees (according to Yahoo, as of 7:01 PM when I
checked).
> Time: 6:48 PM.
> Location: Parked (in the shade) in a parking lot outside a supermarket.
> Windows: All four down about 2 inches.
> Dog: In the car.
> Me: Out for less than three minutes to get cash from a cash machine.
> Situation: A women accosted me in the parking lot for this, and is
reporting
> me to the police. As I explained to the woman, I'll be able to show that I
> didn't even purchase anything in the store (she could see I wasn't
carrying
> any groceries), that I only used the cash machine, which was perhaps 50
feet
> from where I was parked. Woman says it was dangerous to even leave my dog
in
> the car for one minute in these conditions, and is reporting me for
> endangering my dog.
>
> So ... was it dangerous to leave a dog in a car for three minutes in the
> above conditions? Or was the woman an extremist looking for trouble?
>
> -Larry
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 -
http://www.uncensored-news.com
> <><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source
<><><><><><><><>
>



Marcel Beaudoin
2003-06-27 08:53:57 EST
"Krishur" <kris_brock@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:vfoenop75831a8@corp.supernews.com:

> I wouldn't call the woman an "extremist looking for trouble". She was
> genuinely concerned for a dog that she saw sitting in a car with
> cracked (not open) windows on a very hot day. I too would've been
> worried about him.

I would agree. Giving the lady benefit of the doubt, she didn't know how
long you had been gone for. Whenever I read about something like this in
the news, the owner of the dog *always* says that they were only gone for a
couple minutes.

--
*******************************************
Marcel Beaudoin & Moogli
m*i@hotmail.com
*******************************************
'Unicorns must be believed to be
seen.' (Peter S. Beagle)
*******************************************


Larry Hodges
2003-06-27 09:12:51 EST
"Marcel Beaudoin" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:Xns93A75AA3BACB3mbeauurkagurkasympat@130.133.1.4...
> "Krishur" <kris_brock@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:vfoenop75831a8@corp.supernews.com:
>
> > I wouldn't call the woman an "extremist looking for trouble". She was
> > genuinely concerned for a dog that she saw sitting in a car with
> > cracked (not open) windows on a very hot day. I too would've been
> > worried about him.
>
> I would agree. Giving the lady benefit of the doubt, she didn't know how
> long you had been gone for. Whenever I read about something like this in
> the news, the owner of the dog *always* says that they were only gone for
a
> couple minutes.

Which is why it would have been pretty bad if I'd come out of the store with
bags of groceries! The problem is that once it became apparent that I had
only been gone a few minutes, she still said she's calling the police.
Haven't heard from anyone yet, however.

-Larry



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Kyler Laird
2003-06-27 21:16:34 EST
>Sounds like a case of uninformed hysteria to me.

Yup. Dog people are encouraged to think that because a car *can*
quickly become dangerously hot in the sun, any car in the sun is a
doggy death trap.
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&th=6e2a9e2549be63df&seekm=9404251445.AA37158%40gryphon.Xap#link1

I suggest that the next time some loon accosts you like this, you
invite her to sit down in the car with you and discuss it for
awhile. You might also want to put a digital thermometer against
the windshield.

--kyler

Q
2003-06-28 00:44:35 EST

"Krishur" <kris_brock@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:vfoenop75831a8@corp.supernews.com...
> I wouldn't call the woman an "extremist looking for trouble". She was
> genuinely concerned for a dog that she saw sitting in a car with cracked
> (not open) windows on a very hot day. I too would've been worried about
him.
>
> I don't take my dog anywhere in the car when I know she's going to be left
> alone when it's over 75 degrees--unless I leave my car running w/the a/c
on.
>
> Something could've happened to detain you. A car will heat up to over 100
> degrees (even in the shade) and your dog could've died--is it worth the
> risk? Get a second set of car keys and lock the car, running w/the a/c on
if
> you must take your dog out with you during the summer.
>
Leaving the A/c on is a little risky though (and actually, leaving your car
running is against the law here.) When standing still, the A/c doesn't work
very well. The vent temp can go up from around 45 while driving to around
60 or 65 while standing and this may not be sufficient in sunny weather.
And if the car stalls on a sunny day (with the windows up) there is not much
time before fatal heat can be reached. I read about a police dog who died
this way last year. I used to leave my boys in the car with the A/c on, but
I was far too stressed out worrying about the car stalling (it never did
though). Instead, I started looking for shade or skipping the store. Or,
when the sun is low, you can park facing the sun and use a silvery
windshield sunshade and leave the windows and sunroof open. I've found this
to keep the temp in the car quite acceptable in low sun. The midday sun is
the real problem.

I've thought of designing a remote temperature beeper thingie so I could go
back to the A/c. You'd put the sensor in the car, and pager thingie on your
belt would show the car temperature. You could set it to beep at, say, 80
or whatever, so you wouldn't have to keep checking it. The trouble is, it
would probably have to cost $150 to be reliable enough and have enough range
for malls. I'd didn't think too many people would be interested at that
price. What do you all think?

Q



Krishur
2003-06-28 08:20:39 EST
A device like that would be a good idea but I hope no one would leave their
car running for extended periods of time, like while shopping in a mall--an
incredible waste of gas. I do it when I need to pop into the grocery store
to grab a *couple* things for dinner, not a whole grocery shopping visit.

I never thought that the car might stall. I also never considered that the
a/c couldn't keep the car cool when in idle--even though my trips are short,
something could happen to detain me.

Thanks.

--
Kristen &
Kali CD, CGC, TDI, TT
http://www.kristenandkali.com



"Q" <AAAquintinsDELCAPS@concordecorp.comZZZ> wrote in message
news:T29La.2684$zE.1887@fe1.columbus.rr.com...
>
> "Krishur" <kris_brock@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:vfoenop75831a8@corp.supernews.com...
> > I wouldn't call the woman an "extremist looking for trouble". She was
> > genuinely concerned for a dog that she saw sitting in a car with cracked
> > (not open) windows on a very hot day. I too would've been worried about
> him.
> >
> > I don't take my dog anywhere in the car when I know she's going to be
left
> > alone when it's over 75 degrees--unless I leave my car running w/the a/c
> on.
> >
> > Something could've happened to detain you. A car will heat up to over
100
> > degrees (even in the shade) and your dog could've died--is it worth the
> > risk? Get a second set of car keys and lock the car, running w/the a/c
on
> if
> > you must take your dog out with you during the summer.
> >
> Leaving the A/c on is a little risky though (and actually, leaving your
car
> running is against the law here.) When standing still, the A/c doesn't
work
> very well. The vent temp can go up from around 45 while driving to around
> 60 or 65 while standing and this may not be sufficient in sunny weather.
> And if the car stalls on a sunny day (with the windows up) there is not
much
> time before fatal heat can be reached. I read about a police dog who died
> this way last year. I used to leave my boys in the car with the A/c on,
but
> I was far too stressed out worrying about the car stalling (it never did
> though). Instead, I started looking for shade or skipping the store. Or,
> when the sun is low, you can park facing the sun and use a silvery
> windshield sunshade and leave the windows and sunroof open. I've found
this
> to keep the temp in the car quite acceptable in low sun. The midday sun
is
> the real problem.
>
> I've thought of designing a remote temperature beeper thingie so I could
go
> back to the A/c. You'd put the sensor in the car, and pager thingie on
your
> belt would show the car temperature. You could set it to beep at, say, 80
> or whatever, so you wouldn't have to keep checking it. The trouble is, it
> would probably have to cost $150 to be reliable enough and have enough
range
> for malls. I'd didn't think too many people would be interested at that
> price. What do you all think?
>
> Q
>
>


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