Dog Discussion: Jerry Howe: A Very Unfortunate Case

Jerry Howe: A Very Unfortunate Case
Posts: 20

Report Abuse

Use this form to report abuse or request takedown.
The requests are usually processed within 48 hours.

Page: 1 2   Next  (First | Last)

Kit Von Lettow-Vorbeck
2006-02-21 23:25:40 EST
I see Jerry Howe is bugging everyone on this post: don't be harsh on him,
he's well known in this area and is a very sad case. He's 58, on welfare,
none too hygienic and was always trying to join local dog organisations and
destroying their meetings with his insane spoutings: then he disappeared for
a couple of years, and we found out he had been jailed for sexually
molesting two young boys. He is more to be pitied than reviled, so do try to
understand, and above all else, DON'T GET IN A DISPUTE WITH HIM, he will
argue the hind leg off a donkey ands isn't above suddenly turning up on your
doorstep.



John Wesley
2006-02-22 00:04:57 EST
In article <aJRKf.11552$%14.378520@news20.bellglobal.com>,
k*l@sympatico.ca says...
> I see Jerry Howe is bugging everyone on this post: don't be harsh on him,
> he's well known in this area and is a very sad case. He's 58, on welfare,
> none too hygienic and was always trying to join local dog organisations and
> destroying their meetings with his insane spoutings: then he disappeared for
> a couple of years, and we found out he had been jailed for sexually
> molesting two young boys. He is more to be pitied than reviled, so do try to
> understand, and above all else, DON'T GET IN A DISPUTE WITH HIM, he will
> argue the hind leg off a donkey ands isn't above suddenly turning up on your
> doorstep.
>
>
>
We all have heard this story before. He is in everyones killfile. We
don't even know he posts unless someone mentions him, but thanks for the
warning anyway!

Probe1957
2006-02-22 15:38:57 EST
Yes, things are much more enjoyable since I got what approaches a real
newsreader and killfiled him.

"John Wesley" <JohnWesley1987@yahoo.com> wrote in message

> We all have heard this story before. He is in everyones killfile. We
> don't even know he posts unless someone mentions him, but thanks for the
> warning anyway!



Red Rover
2006-02-22 15:49:14 EST
In article <BZ3Lf.24025$_S7.725@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>, maybenot2
@hotmail.com says...
> Yes, things are much more enjoyable since I got what approaches a real
> newsreader and killfiled him.
>
> "John Wesley" <JohnWesley1987@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> > We all have heard this story before. He is in everyones killfile. We
> > don't even know he posts unless someone mentions him, but thanks for the
> > warning anyway!
>
>
>
HOWE does he expect anyone to get anything Howet of his postings?

rr

sorry I couln't resist!

A*@HotMail.Com
2006-02-22 20:32:10 EST
HOWEDY kit von lettow-vorbeck,

Kit von Lettow-Vorbeck wrote:
> I see Jerry Howe

You mean Jerry Howe, The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >

> is bugging everyone on this post:

You mean on accHOWENT of he's IDENTIFIED EXXXPOSED
and DISCREDITED the miserable lying dog abusing punk
thug cowards and active acute chronic long term incurable
mental cases, like yourself, kit von lettow-vorbeck.

> don't be harsh on him,

THAT would go against The Simply Amazing Puppy
Wizard's TEACHINGS.

WOULDN'T IT, kit von lettow-vorbeck <{); ~ ) >

> he's well known in this area

INDEEDY. On accHOWENT of HE has CURED ALL temperament
and behavior problems NEARLY INSTANTLY and FOR FREE,
to boot, by teachin folks to simply DO EVERY THING
EXXXACTLY PRECISELY OPPOSITE of HOWE you and your punk
thug coward long term incurable mental case pals do it.

> and is a very sad case.

What's SAD abHOWET PROVING that ALL temperament
and behavior problems are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING
as taught by the university trained behaviorists
and professional trainers and veterinarians, kit
von lettow-vorbeck <{); ~ ) > ????

> He's 58,

Not quite, kit von lettow-vorbeck. UNLESS
you know sumpthin HE don't??? Might YOU
be HIS real mommy? BWEEEEAAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

> on welfare,

The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard lives on PRANAH and has
NO NEED for "welfare", kit von lettow-vorbeck <{); ~ ) >

> none too hygienic

Despite The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's 76 references
in Google to "Cleanlieness is next to G-Dlieness", kit
von lettow-vorbeck?

> and was always trying to join local dog organisations

AltHOWE The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard has belonged
to a couple of breed clubs over the forty sumpthin
years HE'S been in this business HE has never tried
to join ANY club or association for several decades
and has never been "thrown HOWET" of or not accepted
in any such associations.

> and destroying their meetings with his insane spoutings:

The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard HAS been invited to speak
at several dog club and professional organizations and has
always had enlightening and informative discussions despite
some professional heclkers who was told to "SHUT UP" by the
enraptured members learning the HOWE'S and HOWE COMES of the
BUSINESS <{) ; ~ ) >

> then he disappeared for a couple of years,

The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard appears and disappears
like a phantazam, it's all part of bein a WIZARD, kit
von lettow-vorbeck, comes with the neat Wizard's closh
an sceptor <{); ~ ) >

> and we found out he had been jailed for
> sexually molesting two young boys.

Perhaps you're referring to booby maida's (captain arthur
haggert's protege) insane false accusations stemming from
The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's refusal to BE NICE to
him when booby offered to "ENDORSE" HIS METHODS in EXXXCHANGE
for The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard NOT CONDEMENING him for
abusing dogs so he could "make a living", kit von lettow-
vorbeck <{); ~ ) >

> He is more to be pitied than reviled,

The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard asks for NO sympathy.
The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard did not come here to
MAKE FRIENDS with lying dog abusing punk thug coward
active acute chronic long term incurable mental cases,
HE CAME HERE to IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE and DISCREDIT and
PUT THEM THE HEEL HOWETA THIS BUSINESS <{); ~ ) >

> so do try to understand,

The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard got EVIDENCE, so
your UNDERSTANDING is IRRELEVENT IMMATERIAL and
INCONSEQUENTIAL. You're a MENTAL CASE. UNDERSTAND?

> and above all else, DON'T GET IN A DISPUTE WITH HIM,

On accHOWENT of EVERY THING HE SEZ IS PROVEN FACT.
YOU CANNOT WIN a "dispute" with The Simply Amazing
Puppy Wizard when HE CITES CASE HISTORY DATA and
has EVERY THING in blankman and white and html just
like HOWE HIS DADDY taught him to FIGHT.

> he will argue the hind leg off a donkey

The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard would simply ASK
the donkey to GIVE IT UP and he would...

> ands isn't above suddenly turning up on your doorstep.

BWEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAA!!!

THIS IS The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's DOORSTEP.

And bye the bye, here in the great state of Florida,
you CAN BE SHOT for threatenin folks, so ADIOS.

The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >

Oh, and take your pals with you:


"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?

> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.

> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>

From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST

Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.

Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

---------------

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day

Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.

Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14

B*.@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<*.@bellsouth.net>:

> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.

Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.

Why did you blow it?

--Matt

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????

Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?

I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918australianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.

> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.


"dallygirl" <kwickwick@hotmail.com> said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> choke chains are outdated and barbaric in many cases
> causing more harm than good.

Back at you with flat buckle collars. These are an
incredibly abused training tool, what with the number
of handlers I see pulling back and jerking on the leash
with both hands.

It's a good thing that most of us are here because of dogs'
well-being and not an agenda.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!

"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction" --Janet Boss

"Reliable Punishment Cycles, Different Thresholds To Pain
And Punishment, High Tolerance For Correction, Escalation
Of Correction To A Level Where The Dog Yelps When You Punish
Him, Thus Making The Experience One Which The Dog Will Want
To Avoid In The Future," grant teeboon, RAAF.

"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack
Wouldn't Have Done It If He Thought Solo Couldn't
Take It. I Still Crate Him Because Otherwise I Fear
He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.

captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A
ResoundingSound Distraction: "When You Chuck The Dog
The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To The Ears And
Give A Popping Sound To The Dog."

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

On 6 Feb 2006 17:41:08 GMT, Mary Healey <mhhealey@iastate.edu>,
clicked their heels and said:

> Does that include tone of voice? Some tools are easier
> to ban than others.

yes - screaming banshees are told to shut up! And I
always have to remind spouses that they may NOT do the
"honey - you're supposed to be doing it like THIS"......
--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album

lying frosty dahl, oakhill kennels wrote:
Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield
the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them
more sharply

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and
the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist!
Eventually, the dog will give in

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
efforts to escaping the ear pinch

You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell
instead of your thumb even get a studded collar
and pinch the ear against that

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so
urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.

CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready
Right Hand, As it catches on, try using the stick
and no ear pinch.

When the dog is digging out to beat the stick
and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch,
you are finished

If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin,
say "No! Hold!"

(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps because
the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided
it isn't worth it)" lying frosty dahl.

"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.

terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."

"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.

"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."

THAT'S sumpthin to be PR-HOWED abHOWET, eh matty?

Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what would
> > be the point? Where I come from, choking is choking.
> > It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
Deltones wrote:
>
> Rocky wrote:
>
> > "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com>
>
> > > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > > is choking. It's never limited.

Not so in PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING, Deltones.

> > So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> > Thank you for your contribution.
> > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

Looks like you've pushed the mental cases over the edge again...

> Well, I think you carefully avoided quoting the last part of my post.
> You know the one about a bunch of little Colonel Parker doing Elvis's
> out of their dogs? Oh right, limited choking is not abuse, and pumping
> dogs full of drugs to make them behave ain't either in your world huh?
> For the benefit of our gentle readers, here's the part you forgot to
> quote:
?
> Oh, what the hell. Check out a thread started around Nov 23 called
> "Help with a Nuerotic Hound..." where I wonder if you guys are talking
> about dogs or Woody Allen's pharmacy. I'll stick with praises and noise
> distraction to train my dog, thank you.
>
> ----------

"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828.07753.00000001@mb-m18.aol.com...

> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss
>
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...

> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916.10096.00001938@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.

An INSENSITIVE DOG???

> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to
it. When he barks, use the line for a correction.-
if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar," Lynn K.

"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.

<except when it is>

"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs. It's a safety
necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.

<except when it is>

"So what? Whoever said that it's right to
always not confront? We sure can try, but
a dog who knows a command and growls when
given it is certainly being confrontational".
You can't simply walk away and pretend it
didn't happen or leave it for later work in
every situation." Lynn K.

--------------------

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.

----------------

From: "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com>
Date: 2 Dec 2005 10:55:41 -0800
Subject: Re: In defense of Jerry Howe's methods

Mary Healey wrote:
> I'm still asking for 5 original posts from people here at least 5
> years to support your initial contention (NOT HURTING DOGS TO TRAIN

THEM). You're 0 for 2, so far.

That's 2 in 2 as far as I'm concerned but hey, if you insist. I'm
really curious to see what will be the justification this time. So far
we have:

Limited choking? Hey, it's limited, As
Neo would say: Woah, there is no choke.

Dogs pumped full of prozac? Hey, they're trippin
man. Remember Woodstock. Euh.... Woodwhat?

E-Collar? I'm sure some of you will come up with: But my
dog look so pretty with an electrified perm. Swoooon.

So on with the fun. Taken from the "Collars" thread,
started by Perry Templeton June 20 2005

Denis
------------

On 26 Jun 2005 10:52:42 -0700, lucyaa...@claque.net, wrote:

> What does the "choke" in the "choke chain" stand for, then?
> Lucy

one reason I call them slip collars. Their is a correction involved,
and while it causes momentary discomfort, does not choke the dog.
OTOH, it is CAPABLE fo being used to do that, should a situation
warrant it.
--
Janet B
----------

And here's another one from the same author,
taken from the same thread.

---------

167. Janet B
Jun 21, 12:03 pm show options
On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:40:11 +0100, "Alison"

<*.@XYZallofus2.fsnet.co.uk>, wrote:
> I'm just wondering why you had to use choke chains to train"your
> dogs especially as they are so small.

Oh geez - let's see - how many JRTs act like alligators at the end of
a leash? I personally prefer prong collars.

----------

Let's go for the hat trick with the same author, taken from the same
thread:

----------

141. Janet B
Jun 27, 10:01 pm

I don't use choke chains. Not quite true - I use a jeweler's hex link

on Franklin at times - it's puuuuuurty. I know the "sound" thing
and all, and when training a dog in a non-group setting, that sound
may be a factor, but I think it fails in the context of a group class.

So, I prefer the better fitting nylon slip collars, and very often,
pinch collars (small link unless it's a freaky dog, then they need
the milder medium link).

But I use e-collars too. With one of my dogs and with some clients.
For circumstances where a physical collar and leash is not the right
answer. I'm sure Lucy has no clue what THAT means!
--
Janet B
----------

HOWEDY janet,

Looks like you and your pals have gone totally INSANE again:

Janet B wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 14:44:14 -0500, Janet B
> <j...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com>, clicked their heels and said:
> > Since you quoted me repeatedly, where does it say I beat dogs, choke
> > dogs, scream at dogs, etc? Thanks for your clarification.
.
> responding to my own post, I had to go back and look at the original
> post, to remind myself what "we" are all accused of doing:
>
> "screaming, choking, shocking, pinching, beating the living crap
> out of your dogs"
>
> Scream? no
>
> Choke? no
>
> Shock? e-collars are a lot more sophisticated than that
>
> Pinch? if you want to classify a momentary discomfort by a prong
> collar, go ahead, but unless you have first hand experience with
> one, your opinion means nothing
>
> Beat the living crap out of? hardly - no hitting exists

"Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap,"
professora gingold.

"BethF" <b...@NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.com>
wrote in message
news:v4r8kkfr257e1a@corp.supernews.com...

Kyle, FWIW, i thought it was pretty funny,
and i often call my little dog the turd, because
he is one. Some folks think its HORRRIBLE i
would insult my dog like that so i guess its just a
matter of personality.

Kyle, the best way to teach him to stay away is to
step on him once. Seriously.

"Whatever Motivates The Dog, But I Daresay Most
Of The Dogs I Have In Classes Just Aren't That
Interested In Praise."

"BethF" <d...@alaska.com> wrote in message
news:uohnj3r4a4e85e@corp.supernews.com...

Maybe that's what we should do - hold back the dobie
girl so that Izzy can put Simon in his place.

"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness," mustang sally.

"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.

This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.

Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
Subject: Re: shock collars

Sally Hennessey <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63h8ekqiforibadrff2@4ax.com...

Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-
righteous, this post shows and absence of knowledge
in the differences in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps
a lack of ability to perceive same.

The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to
whom corrections and discomfort, even pain, were
unimportant does not mean that such dogs do not exist.

What it means is that you don't know as much about
dogs as you think you do, and you surely don't know
a damn thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.

I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with
one of her housemates; that dog had no fear or
anything, and pain incurred during a fight meant
nothing to her.

I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that
you, Alison, continue to say things to people such as
what you said to Theresa about causing her dog to
suffer (at least I guess that's what you meant by
"you cause your dog suffers" - - must be the King's
English you guys talk about over there) means that
you are an ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person
who is not worth further notice.

Sally Hennessey

"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv128jnumgmb2m27opr@4ax.com...

Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.

I'm starting to see some similarities here.

Sally Hennessey

"Janet Boss offered a pat on the back, commenting that
ultimately it wasn't Kate's decision. Whose was it? I asked.
Why, it was Teena's, averred Janet.

Janet was in an exculpatory frame of mind because she
contributed to this travesty herself, by advising Kate to
repeat the aggression trigger (grooming) on a daily basis.

It's all in the archives.

Now these two are spouting off about what kind of e-collars
they like to use on their dogs. Well, I've got an AC Delco
model that would be just right for Janet or Kate. BZZZZzzt!
I'd have to find it though, and I can't remember if I left
it in my underground bunker or the crawlspace under my
house," Charlie.

Here's janet's PARTNER:

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

sinofabitch writes:
> > What I have said- repeatedly - is that he
> > took posts from two different people,
> > took pieces of them out of context,

Of curse. QUOTED. You wanna see it in context?

> > cobbled them together,

No. There was WON DIRECT QUOTE.

> > then added his own words:

"Neatly," and "Smartly."

> > and a fake signature.

"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.

> > Which is exactly what he did.

INDEEDY. That's HOWE COME you deny it.

> > The actual quote is misleading

That so?

> > when taken out of context,

We'd been talkin abHOWET beatin the dog with a shoe...

> > and Jerry's faked "quote"

The WON sinofabitch totally DENIES.

> > is downright meaningless.

Only if you're a MENTAL CASE.

Here's Jerry's version

"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.

Here's yours:

"I dropped the leash, threw my
right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
grabbed her opposite foot with my
left hand, rolled her on her side,
leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
nipped her ear.
--Sara Sionnach

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

See?

"Marshall Dermer" <der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:a3h5qn$mra$1@uwm.edu...

> Di,
> I don't believe you mentioned a particular kind of
> training. If you are interested in training retrieval
> behavior than do consider our own Amy Dahl's:
> The 10-Minute Retriever : How to Make a Well-
> Mannered, Obedient and Enthusiastic Gun Dog
> in 10 Minutes a Day by John I. Dahl, Amy Dahl

You failed to mention your pals the dahls are
proven liars and dog abusers, professor "SCRUFF SHAKE:"

"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog
I Do Not Believe There Is A Single Circumstance
Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything But
Destructive," "I don't see why anyone would want
to choke or beat a dog, or how any trainer could
possibly get a good working dog by making them
unhapper, fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying
frosty dahl.

> just $17.95 at Amazon.com.
> (Also, it is best to killfile posts from the few
> regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
> ill-mannered, or just plain ill.)
> --Marshall

amy lying frosty dahl continues:

"On the other extreme, the really ard dogs
we have trained require much more frequent
and heavy application of pressure (PAIN j.h.)
to get the job done,

This is continued resistance to your increasing
authority, and the job is not done until it is overcome

Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield
the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them
more sharply

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and
the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist!
Eventually, the dog will give in

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
efforts to escaping the ear pinch

You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell
instead of your thumb even get a studded collar
and pinch the ear against that

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so
urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.

CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready
Right Hand, As it catches on, try using the stick
and no ear pinch.

When the dog is digging out to beat the stick
and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch,
you are finished

If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin,
say "No! Hold!"

(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps because
the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided
it isn't worth it)" lying frosty dahl.

"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.

terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."

lying frosty dahl sez she doesn't twist:

"None of my posts, prior to or subsequent to
Jerry Howe's attacks, encourage anyone to
twist ears, beat dogs, confront, intimidate,
frighten, or any of the crap he constantly
attributes to me," lying frosty dahl.

BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!

"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.

Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies
HURT all their lives like HOWE HOWER dog
lovers PREFER to HURT THEIR DOGS?

"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."

The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.

We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...

Sez on our FAQ'S pages at K9 Web you should
knee the dog in the chest, step on its toes, throw
him down by his ears and climb all over it like a
raped ape growling into his throat and bite IT on
his ears, or leash pop it on a pronged spiked pinch
choke collar or pop him in the snout with the heel
of your palm.

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This (Destructive Separation
Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite A Few
Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME
The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer, 33
Years Experience.

You DO remember KILLFILING MARILYN for
her coment above regarding her success with
The Puppy Wizard's Surrogate Toy Separation
Anxiety / Bed Time Calming / Submissive
Urination Technique (STSA/BTC/SUT)?

Perhaps you likeWIZE recall a pediatrician, Dr. Z,
who commented that his bed time calming technique
was quite similar?

> > You're scary Marilyn.
> > Marilyn must be quite a disturbed individual.
> > I feel very sorry for her and her family.

"His Amazing Progress Almost Makes Me Cry.
Your Method Takes Positive Training To The
Next Level And Should Really Be Used By All
Trainers Who Call Themselves Trainers. Thank
You For Helping Me Save His Life," Kay Pierce,
Professional Trainer, 30 Years Experience.

"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack
Wouldn't Have Done It If He Thought Solo Couldn't
Take It. I Still Crate Him Because Otherwise I Fear
He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."

"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?

When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first time,
spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth and walk
away. The dog won't be too thrilled with this but just
ignore him and continue your normal behavior."

--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"Courteous Canines"

We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?

> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.

> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>

From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST

Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.

Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

---------------

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day

Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.

Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's

just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14

B*.@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<*.@bellsouth.net>:

> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.

Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.

Why did you blow it?

--Matt

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????

Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?

I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918australianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.

> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.


"dallygirl" <kwickwick@hotmail.com> said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> choke chains are outdated and barbaric in many cases
> causing more harm than good.

Back at you with flat buckle collars. These are an
incredibly abused training tool, what with the number
of handlers I see pulling back and jerking on the leash
with both hands.

It's a good thing that most of us are here because of dogs'
well-being and not an agenda.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!


"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will
Seem Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe.
This Is A Normal Reaction The First Few Times
It Happens, But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."

"Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a
helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.
Tougher, less tractable dogs may require
you to progress to striking them more
sharply," lying frosty dahl, ethical breeder,
expert trainer.

"On the other extreme, the really hard dogs
we have trained require much more
frequent and heavy application of pressure
(PAIN j.h.) to get the job done,

This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome

"You can press the dog's ear with a
shotshell instead of your thumb even
get a studded collar and pinch the ear
against that Make the dog's need to stop
the pinching so urgent that resisting your
will fades in importance.

CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever
Ready Right Hand, As it catches on, try
using the stick and no ear pinch.

When the dog is digging out to beat the
stick and seems totally reliable without
any ear pinch, you are finished

This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome"

If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly
under the chin, say "No! Hold!"

(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps
because the ear is getting tender, or the
dog has decided it isn't worth it)" lying
frosty dahl.

You think a EXXXPERT trainer got to BEAT
a HUNTIN dog to MAKE IT HUNT?

"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.

Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies HURT all
their lives like HOWE HOWER dog lovers PREFER to
HURT THEIR DOGS?

"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."

The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.

We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL.

That's INSANE. Ain't it.

"When you get bagged for lying you're MARKED
FOR LIFE," The Puppy Wizard's DADDY <{); ~ ) >

BWEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?

> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.

> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>

From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST

Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.

Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

---------------

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day

Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.

Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's

just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14

B*.@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<*.@bellsouth.net>:

> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.

Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.

Why did you blow it?

--Matt

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????

Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?

I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918australianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.

> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

From: Mark Shaw (m...@bangnetcom.com)
Subject: Re: Fido-Shock
Date: 2002-04-10 14:12:18 PST

In article <gWLs8.203228$af7.101030@rwcrn­­­sc53>,

"Coleman Brumley" <clbrum...@home.com> wrote:
> Has anyone had experience with this product (Fido-
> Shock). If so, what model number, voltage, etc.?

If you're talking about the pet-grade hotwire system,
I have one. It's to keep boarded dogs out of my flowers.

> I have a 1.5 year St Bernard who is scaling (not clearing --
> more like falling over) our 4 foot fence to visit with owners
> walking their dogs. I thought of raising the fence a foot or
> so, but don't think that'll solve the problem. I've tried
> watching her outside, and give a stern "NO" when she
> props on the fence for a peek over it. No avail.
> I've heard this product works after just a couple of tries.

I take it you're considering running the wire across the top
of the fence? I don't think I'd recommend that, although it
may be worth a try. Watch closely -- the one case where I saw
a hotwire used in this fashion caused the dog undue stress and
frustration, and he tried even harder to get over the fence.
So be prepared to take it down right away.

That was a Dane, though. With a Saint things might be
different.
--
Mark Shaw

culprit's dogs MURDERED her kat for
standin behind their SHOCK FENCE
just like HOWE liea's dog attacked
her only friend and tried to attack two
little kids for standin in her SHOCK ZONE:

From: culprit (culp...@flashmail.com)
Subject: Re: Video clip......."Nero" practicing
bark alert, while walking backwards
Date: 2004-06-05 18:53:50 PST

"micha el" <spam_yurs...@spamyourmamma.co­­­m>
wrote in message news:yIydnZpPsIzg6l_d4p2dnA@comcast.com...

> Anyway, contrary to your PR, this is what
> it felt like to me when I got shocked by
> Hope's collar.
> It felt like a bomb going off in my
> hand and forearm.

------------------------------­­­--

"Tricia9999" <tricia9...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021117101433.10365.00000067@mb-cg.aol.com...

>> how effective are these electronic fences in
>> keeping a dog on a property????

Some run through it. Others get shocked and become
too scared to go out in the yard anymore.

Just heard of a guy that has to rehome his dog,
because the dog got caught right in the path of
the shock and will now not go near his person,
won't go outside.

Just hides under a desk in the house.

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?

> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.

> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>

From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST

Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.

Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

---------------

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day

Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.

Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's

just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14

B*.@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<*.@bellsouth.net>:

> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.

Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.

Why did you blow it?

--Matt

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????

Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?

I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918australianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.

> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHHAAAA!!!

"I'd call the SHOCK fence effective and safe.
Humane is one of those hot words that people
can debate all day so I won't touch that one.
There are people who would call a regular chain
link fence inhumane," liea altshuller.

"I know this is a hard subject to bring up without
starting the whole cruelty thread again so I'll
state my opinion once and won't defend it further:
any method can be cruel for some dogs.

Even the slightest punishment was wrong for Cubbe at
the beginning, but we've come a long way since then.

She trusts us now as I mentioned in a recent post.

Point is, she's been rewarded for coming, but she's
never been punished, even in the mildest way, for
not coming.

Is it time for that?

What might I look for to tell?"

"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshu...@comcast.net>
wrote in message news:McYnb.45145$ao4.106231@attbi_s51...

After talking with the vet yesterday and watching
Cubbe all day today, I'm convinced that the shaking
is behavioral, not physical. Naturally I'll continue
keeping an eye on her, but when I add everything
up, I don't see symptoms of anything neurological--
and the vet agrees.
--Lia

"Things are beginning to get much worse day
by day and the vets seem unable to help.
http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorR­­­ufusMed.WMV
http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorR­­­ufusSmall.WMV"

THAT'S AN OCD. His owner CAUSED IT by
MISHANDLING and ABUSING his dog according
to the BEST advice of HOWER Gang Of Lying
Dog Abusing Punk Thug Cowards And ACTIVE
LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES and
ASYLUM ESCAPEES.

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?

> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.

> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>

From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST

Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.

Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

---------------

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day

Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.

Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's

just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14

B*.@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<*.@bellsouth.net>:

> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.

Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.

Why did you blow it?

--Matt

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????

Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?

I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918australianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.

> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHHAAAA!!!

http://tinyurl.com/389al

In this video, the dog is constantly jerking his
head all around. I'm not SHORE why he's doing that.
If he's doing it because he is being shocked repeatedly
into getting onto that skateboard, then it is my
opinion that Fred Hassen is a dog abuser in the
extreme. As would anyone be, no matter how much
"experience" they had shocking dogs, nor how
nationally "respected" they are/were.

If, HOWEver, the dog is jerking his head all around
because he is happy and for no other reason, well,
then, never mind. I've just never seen this kind of
behavior from a dog before, so maybe Fred can
explain what would cause a dog to move his head
like that.

Here's a other:
http://tinyurl.com/2v9oh

"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828.07753.00000001@mb-m18.aol.com...

> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss
>
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...

> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916.10096.00001938@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.

An INSENSITIVE DOG???

> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.
>
>
On 6 Feb 2006 01:19:16 -0800,
"dallygirl" <kwickwick@hotmail.com>, clicked their heels and said:

> janet, yes unfortunatly i have. i joined a mother and daughter duo
> training group and i am still kicking my arse over it :( i have since
> learnt (and anyone new to dogs please take note!) they have no
> qualifications only their own experience.

What exactly does that mean?

> its because of them i am busting a gut to get qualified and to join the apdt.

"credentials" only mean something if the issuing organization is
recognized as THE authority. The American Medical Association, The
American Bar Association - things like that. There is no "whatever"
dog association that licenses dog trainers.

> i saw a massive negative difference in my dogs behaviour when on the
> lead and i didnt yank or pull i never would no matter what the
> 'trainers' said.

What exactly were you doing with the lead that caused a negative
behavior? Do you not use a lead when training? Not on city streets?

> i guess i was as distressed as my dog.

I'm pretty sure you are the only one who was distressed and you
transmitted that to your dog.

> i took a dog out of this real nasty hell hole. the lady had set her
> self up as a rescue then had about 20 dogs running free in her back
> garden and it broke down to chaos.i took out a young lab female who
> was so scared she wouldnt climb into my car and i wasnt going to force
> her so i just sat next to her but on my tail gate. the 'rescue' woman
> growled and grabbed the dog at the back of the neck and a lump of flesh
> at the rump and threw her into my car.

What on earth does that have to do with properly using a variety of
training tools? So far, you've equated using choke collars with
people who enjoy drop-kicking dogs.

>with ppl such as this working with dogs i want to show a 'better way'.
>i don't refer to them when i'm talking to the person on the street as
>'tools of horror' but i do give them some tips on a nicer way.

When 150# Cujo is trying to eat the dog net door,
what "nicer way" do you employ?

> the thing is, you put one of those around your neck, be it choke
> prong or electric and then tell me you want to keep using them.

My neck is very different from a dog's neck. I have no problem with a
choke or prong on my neck - I would respond accordingly. As far as
electric, I have had a ton of PT at times, and the electricity has
been a godsend.

>ok i am bent over ~ no pointy toes please, but form an orderly line to
>kick my arse..............i am braced :)

Nope - don't believe in kicking. But I do use a variety of collars
when training dogs. I'm not a big fan of CHAIN chokes, because I
don't find them easy to fit properly. I prefer nylon slip collars in
general, will never connect a leash to a buckle ID collar, and find
prong collars to be very, very useful training tools.

Rudy is going to start learning the e-collar this week.
I'm sure you'll NOT hear screams from across the pond.

--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album


"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?

> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.

> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>

From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST

Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.

Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

---------------

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day

Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.

Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's

just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14

B*.@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<*.@bellsouth.net>:

> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.

Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.

Why did you blow it?

--Matt

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????

Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?

I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918australianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.

> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

THAT'S sumpthin to be PR-HOWED abHOWET, eh matty?

Paxil Princess psychoclown wrote:

"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
things is something you twisted out of
context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."

"Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them more
sharply.

REPEAT, VARYING HOW HARD YOU HIT THE DOG.

Now you are ready to progress to what most people think of
as force-fetching: the ear pinch.

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so urgent that
resisting your will fades in importance.

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to
escaping the ear pinch even get a studded collar and pinch
the ear against that if the dog still does not open its mouth,
get out the shotshell.

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the
collar, even the buckle on the collar.

Persist! Eventually, the dog will give in

With your hand on the collar and ear, say, 'fetch.'

Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick.

Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy.
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell instead of your
thumb; Say 'fetch' while pressing the dummy against its lips
and pinching its ear," lying frosty dahl.

>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.

Should I have refused to groom them?

Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."

Lynn K.

"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:

"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20

g*.@my-deja.com wrote:
> How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.

Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.

"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.

Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."

8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).

If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.

This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."

>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
<news:04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews>...

Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
quotes are true.
In the posts below you take responsibility for
making those calls.

In your post above, you state you do not
make those calls.

Which one is it?

WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day
For Twenty Years

I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-
depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50
mg of Zoloft every day.

I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to
learn more, while happily sharing pertinent
information I have learned. But if I were ever
to post such sh*t, I would hope that every other
reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we
earn the right to participate in by observing
the easily understood rules and contributing
to in constructive ways."

Lynn K.

------------------------------­­­-----------

"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."

Lynn K.
------------------------------­­­-----------

LYNN K. and LOIS E, and a BiLateral, BiPolar
conversation on Mental problems. LYNN AND LOIS
Almost 50 years on mental illness medications combined

------------------------------­­­-----------

> But I think what Lois was referring to was
> the fact that Darlene actually stated at
> some point that she was bipolar--and, IIRC,
> that meds did not work for her--so she was
> prone to major-league ups and downs and sudden
> enthusiasms..

"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."

Lynn K.
------------------------------­­­-----------

LYNN K. and the UNQUIET MIND

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/03

BoxHill wrote:
> I know I am totally off topic here, but have
> you read "The Unquiet Mind"?

Yeah. It's interesting, but kind of
watered down for the mass market, if
you know what I mean. There's really
quite a lot of good work out there and
decent research. Thank God.

Lynn K.
------------------------------­­­---------

MOTHER AND CHILD REUNION "KUCKOO!! CUCKOO!!!"

MOTHER (LOIS E.) 22 YEARS on TRICYCLICS, DAUGHTER BIPOLAR...

YOU DO THE MATH

"What's really terrific, is now days you can say proudly,
'I take anti-depressives'"

From: Gary & lois Edwards (g...@bmi.net)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/02

BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS

"I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics
for about 22 years. Been there, done that, have
the t-shirt to prove it. What's really terrific,
is now days you can say proudly,

"I take anti-depressives". Back when I started
taking them it was seen as something shameful.
If you cut your leg off, and were lying there with
a bleeding stump, you'd never let the word
depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
"You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have
any pain meds.....you could become addicted."

The good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt who's
father locked her in her room back in the twenties
because she was simple. A shame that medication
probably would have helped her live a normal life.

No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's
personality, she has a way of making grandiose
plans when at the top of her manic cycle....as
does my daughter. I wasn't saying that anyone
with problems could be counted on to be
irresponsible."

Lois E.
------------------------------­­­-------

"It was kind of funny, in an absurd way. The rabbit
was completely still, eyes open and glazed, dried
blood in his ears and mouth, with his back legs
stiffening quickly.

It was her pet rabbit, not a wild bunny, so
that made it much harder for her.

And he was killed by bichons.

Her dogs had torn it apart. My one student who had
shown up (another weird thing about the night) and I
had to continuously check for heart and bowel sounds
for her, until she could accept that the rabbit was dead.

(The rigor mortis in his back legs she attributed to "pain").

Full moon.

Canine Action Dog Trainer
http://www.canineaction.com

> Then she mentioned the names of her dogs,
> and I immediately remembered them.

YOUR STUDENT, leah. Like that RECENT GRADUATE
STUDENT Rottie who'd been in your SOCIALIZATION
classes since IT was ten weeks old who RECENTLY
MURDERED a little innocent DEAD DOG at the park.

> I will always remember the dogs.

Yeah. You and ed w of PET LOSS dot COIN.

From: dfrntdr...@aol.comMURK-OFF (Leah)
Date: 05 Nov 2002 00:55:40 GMT
Subject: Re: The Puppy Wizard

>"Mike E" m...@egbert.com wrote:
> My question was "Is there any legitimacy to the
> harshly-worded teachings of the Puppy Wizard?"

Any legitimate advice he gives is plagiarized from
other, more coherent sources.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. :}

PetsMart Pet Trainer
See My Furry Family At:

Leah Effexor for chronic depression, in denial
about being mentally ill. Has taken
several other mentally ill medications
before settling on effexor for her chronic
mental problems. Recenly changed to
another ANTI PSYCHOTIC prescription.

"I don't think Jerry intentionally lies. I think he twists
things around in his own mind until he actually believes
what he's saying."

Jerry is the only poster here who gives dangerous
advice. Google for spike and squirt. And let's not
forget the times he's told posters whose dogs have
medical problems that his halfwits-end program could
cure them.

PetsMart Pet Trainer
My Kids, My Students, My Life

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!


"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?

> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.

> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>

From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST

Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.

Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

---------------

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day

Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.

Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14

B*.@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<*.@bellsouth.net>:

> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.

Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.

Why did you blow it?

--Matt

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????

Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?

I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918australianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.

> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.


"dallygirl" <kwickwick@hotmail.com> said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> choke chains are outdated and barbaric in many cases
> causing more harm than good.

Back at you with flat buckle collars. These are an
incredibly abused training tool, what with the number
of handlers I see pulling back and jerking on the leash
with both hands.

It's a good thing that most of us are here because of dogs'
well-being and not an agenda.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAHAHAHHHHAHHHAAAAA!!!

NHOWE THAT'S SUMPTHIN TO BE PR-HOWED abHOWET, eh matty?

The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >

Damn The Descartean War of
"Nature Vs Nurture."
We Teach By HOWER Words
And Actions And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.

In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.

"The day may come when the rest of the animal creation
may acquire those rights
which never could have been withholden from them
but by the hand of tyranny.

The question is not can they REASON,
nor can they TALK,
but can they SUFFER?" -
- Jeremy Bentham

All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer

"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.

"If you've got them by the balls their
hearts and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >

Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
Animal Behavior Forensic
Sciences Research Laboratory,
BIOSOUND Scientific,
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092

The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{TAPW} ; - ) >

ANY QUESTIONS, DUMMIES?

,-._,-,
V)"(V
(_o_) Have a great day!
/ V)
(l l l) Your Puppy Wizard. <{YPW} ; ~ } >
oo-oo


John Oliver
2006-02-22 20:45:48 EST
On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 23:25:40 -0500, Kit von Lettow-Vorbeck wrote:
> I see Jerry Howe is bugging everyone on this post

You're feeding the troll. Attention is what he craves. If everyone
were to add him to their killfiles, he'd wither up and blow away. But
as long as he's talked about, he'll stick around.

Besides, posts like this just irritate those of us who have killfiled
him. he doesn't exist for me until someone starts mentioning him.

--
* John Oliver http://www.john-oliver.net/ *
* Reform California gun laws - http://www.reformcagunlaws.com/ *
* http://www.gunownersca.com - http://www.crpa.org/ *
* San Diego shooters come to http://shooting.forsandiego.com/ *

John Wesley
2006-02-22 21:16:49 EST
In article <slrndvq4u5.c36.joliver@ns.sdsitehosting.net>, joliver@john-
oliver.net says...
> On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 23:25:40 -0500, Kit von Lettow-Vorbeck wrote:
> > I see Jerry Howe is bugging everyone on this post
>
> You're feeding the troll. Attention is what he craves. If everyone
> were to add him to their killfiles, he'd wither up and blow away. But
> as long as he's talked about, he'll stick around.
>
> Besides, posts like this just irritate those of us who have killfiled
> him. he doesn't exist for me until someone starts mentioning him.
>
>
you are about as irritating as he is!

A*@HotMail.Com
2006-02-23 02:44:28 EST
HOWEDY red rover,

red rover wrote:
> In article <BZ3Lf.24025$_S7.725@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>, maybenot2
> @hotmail.com says...
> > Yes, things are much more enjoyable since I got what approaches a real
> > newsreader and killfiled him.
> >
> > "John Wesley" <JohnWesley1987@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >
> > > We all have heard this story before. He is in everyones killfile. We
> > > don't even know he posts unless someone mentions him, but thanks for the
> > > warning anyway!
> >
> >
> >
> HOWE does he expect anyone to get anything Howet of his postings?

S-HOWEND like you done pretty good... at least with your SPELLIN.

> rr
>
> sorry I couln't resist!

THAT was The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's INTENT <{) ; ~ ) >

WELCOME To The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Forums. I'm Jerry Howe, The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ;
~ ) >

Here's your own FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual <{) : ~ } >

<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>

The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change,
Or They'd Not Be Scientific
And Could Not Obtain
Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Safe Effective Results
For All Handler's And All Dogs,
ALL OVER THE WHOLE WILD WORLD,
NEARLY INSTANTLY,
As Taught In Your FREE Copy Of The Simply Amazing Puppy
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual
<{) ; ~ ) >

"It is by muteness that a dog becomes
so utterly beyond value."

Like a confessor Priest?

"With him, words play no torturing tricks..., "
John Galsworthy.

Don't bet your dog won't tell on you...
Their behaviors reflect
HOWER words, actions and training quirks.
Jerry HOWE, The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >

In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.

"As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University, there is no treatment
more useful for dogs than tender loving care." George von
Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate, Academy of
Behavioral Medicine.

ALL temperament and behavior problems are
CAUSED BY MISHANDLING <{) ; ~ ) >

"...all the highest nervous activity, as it manifests
itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a continual
change of these three fundamental processes --
excitation, inhibition and disinhibition," Ivan P. Pavlov

"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement. IOW,
emotions, not outside rewards, are what
reinforces any behavior," Ivan Pavlov.

"All animals learn best through play." -- Konrad Lorenz

ALL Behavior Problems Are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING

"If you talk with the animals, they will talk with you
and you will know each other.
If you do not talk to them, you will not know them,
and what you do not know you will fear.

What one fears, one destroys."
Chief Dan George

You gotta FORGET EVERY THING you've been TAUGHT
abHOWET HOWE to handle and train your dog. Study
your own FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
100% CONSITENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual and ASK
The Amazing Puppy Wizard if you need any additional
FREE HEELP <{) : ~ ) >


From: "Dr. Von" <drv...@mindspring.com>
Date: 12 Sep 2005 10:52:19 -0700
Subject: Re: Clicker Training for Dogs Newsgroups?

Jen wrote:
> I would love to know of one as well. If there was
> enough people interested maybe we could start one.
> I've just started clicker training my dog and have
> been doing the positive training for a while now.
> I think it's great!!
> Jen
> "artbylucy" <artbyl...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:OMudnRS23OLEc7zenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> > Hello,
> > Does anyone know of a dedicated newsgroup for
> > positive-only dog training, in particular clicker
> > training?
> > Thanks,
> > Lucy

Jen, your request for a positive only dog training list,
needs the same answer as I give the folk who ask why I
don't have a list for what I do with biofeedback.

The method is so simple, and if you adopt it and relate
to your dog in such a positive manner you won't have any
more problems and there is no need for any more technique.

With Puppies we Ph.D. psychologists have been outflanked
by the entirely practical and effective methods described
in http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u. Free download, nothing
sold, no mailing list, no distribution of your name. Free
support if needed.

With ADHD kids I provide similar information at
www.drbiofeedback.com and there is no need for
a list dealing with problems with kids. Apply
as directed and have happy healthy doggies or
kiddies.

Not difficult.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

P.S. jerk and choke, spanking, shocking, scruff shake,
choke, chin chucks, all those negatives, denial of
affection etc. are harmful, dranging, obscenities.

You might want to consider Pavlov's typology to
understand "hard and soft dogs" - essentially he
taught that there are outward and inward responding
organisms in weak and strong nervous systems and if
you grasp this firmly you'll shape your training
methods effectively.

Punishment ALWAYS deranges behavior, and so is
recommended and given only by deranged humans.

Of course, it doesn't matter if we are talking
dogs, cats, people, sheep, even husbands. Dr. Von

What's important is, "does Shamu reliably eat
the fish and not the pretty girl?"

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com
To: <d...@arcane-computing.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:38 PM
Subject: Doggy advice

Scott, Jerry Howe forwarded me the letter below.
I'm glad that you referred negatively to Jerry's
habit of CAPITALIZING and HOWEING everything.

I personally hate this habit of his. I think it is his
way of diluting his authority - IME he is a very modest
fellow. However, contrary to your sneer, he is very
competent at living with dogs.

I thought I'd list a series of actions which I found
on the list, folk asking advice on what to do about
dogs doing this and that, for example:

whining,
humping, hunching,
pacing,
self mutilation - paw licking, side sucking,
spinning,
prolonged barking, barking at shadows,
overstimulated barking,
fighting, bullying other dogs,
compulsive digging,
compulsive scratching,
compulsive chewing,
frantic behavior,
chasing light, chasing shadow,
stealing food,
digging in garbage can,
loosing house (toilet) training.
inappropriate fearfulness
aggression.

The thing that is fascinating to me, as an ethologist who
graduated from college 50 years ago and has spent all of
the intervening time working with animals (including the
human animal), is that you never see any of these behaviors
in wild dingoes, jackals, coyotes or wolves, you don't even
see these behaviors in hyenas (who aren't dog related).

You see these behaviors in human managed animals, especially
animals who live with neurotic hysterical humans.

As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving
care.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine

"Linda" <llindaleedan...@msn.com wrote in message
news:

I have been trying for the last 18 months to help my
dog who became fear aggressive at 18 month of age.
I do not know what started the problem but he came
aggressive first with dogs and then began lunging and
snapping at people. Until this time he loved everyone
and could play with any dog. He was well socialized
ad I took him with me everywhere.

At 13 months he passed the Canine Good Citizens
Test except he could let me leave him. I had used
clicker training to teach him manners and tricks but
it was not working on his aggression problem.

I took him to vets who suggested a low protein diet,
trainers who charged $800 to only make him worse.
They tried to use a prong collar and he froze, urinated
and tried to climb on my head to help him. they then
suggested a shock collar I knew this approach was not
working as he was becoming more aggressive.

I took him to an animal behaviorist with Ph. D. 400 miles
away who told me to "KEEP HIM SAFE" and read a book
on the fearful canine. I tried another trainer who tried to
use a nylon chock collar but it only made him worse.

I read hundreds of books,"CULTURE CLASH", "DOG
ARE FROM NEPTUNE", "THE OTHER END OF THE
LEASH", ETC looking for help. We finally went to Purdue
University Small Animal Behavior Clinic and they said he
had fear aggression, punishment would not work, use the
gentle leader and when out walking and he got stressed
have the people stop until he could get in control using
treats, and work on clicker training.

At that point I knew more about clicker training and using
the gentle leader than they did! Nothing was working--he
would not come when I called him and would run away when
I tried to catch him. I was afraid to walk him even in the
neighborhood as we had become that "mean dog and women who
hasn't trained her dog"

I went to four trainers in both Michigan and Florida who
were trainer/specialists in aggression and the last two
were so afraid of him they could not approach him. No one
said I should give up on him and kill him but they would
say "You have to realize he is dangerous and you are
responsible for him."

*(You got LUCKY, Linda... They coulda got Sunshine
DEAD on us. Damned near did... too.)

As last resort I tried the internet again--I had had on
going discussions with trainers from Triple Crown and Dr
Meister with out any help-and I found the ad to Doggy Do
Right and messaged Jerry to ask if this might help my dog.
He said solving the aggression problem was EZ but I could
not believe him even when I downloaded the manual.

The name of the method was right I was at my Wits End.
I had been working for 18 months!

Using the can sound three time he came, and still comes
from anywhere with the command-"comegoodboy" Next
I tried the can when walking him--when he saw a dog three
blocks away he went off-lunging and snapping-I used the
can sound and he looked at me like uhn?

I used it three more times and we got to the other dog-
-the looked at me wagging his tail--the other person
looked at me like why are shaking that can but just walked
on by.

When ever I try to explain about the sound people look at
me like "you must be out of your mind"

The results can make a believer!!!

Three weeks since beginning the Wits End Training
Manual program I walked him without the gentle leader
in a busy shopping area with many dogs.

He just seemed to not notice any one.

When people talked to him or ask his name he would
look at then and wag his tail and let then pet him.

I still can not believe the change in him--we can now
enjoy life out in public.

If I had not found the Wits End method I know there
was no hope for him and he would have hurt someone
Through all this he never growled at me, guarded his
toys or food or showed any sign of aggression with me.

My goal is to get the message out to all dog lovers that
dogs can be trained fast, easily and problems solved with
out force, pain, food or anything but sound and praise!!!!

I know most people would have given up on him a long time
ago but he was and is my life. Solving the problem was EZ
but only with the right approach-sound and praise.

I know because I tried everything else and nothing worked!!!

================================

From: Linda Daniel
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:06 AM
Subject: Re: - Re: dog aggression

Thanks for writing--I would be happy to do almost anything
to get your approach out to dog owners as I know it would
save so many lives. I know at times I was so frustrated I
thought of giving up on Sunshine but of course I never would
have but many people would have. The world just does not
know you can train a dog in just a few sessions and actually
solve problems.

We will be here until late April and we really have no plans-
-just to enjoy the warmth and sun of Florida, so any time
you could meet us would be great. I drive so I would be
happy to come to you anytime anywhere!

We went to Celebration today and two little poodles got
right into his face and he just sat there--I GOT a little
scared but he handled it just fine.--a couple of times people
would ask his name and want to pet him and he just went
to them tail wagging and rolled over for them rub his tummy.

He really just is not concerned about people passing, even
those on rollerblades! I have always used a gentle leader
in public but he spent most of time rubbing his face on the
grass--today I used his collar and he was so much happier!!

Only problem is he will stop to smell and I can not get
stopped soon enough to keep the leash loose. He never
pulled ahead of me but when he gets into smelling I have
a hard time getting him going--at times I think he could
smell a blade of grass for 10 minutes.

I can never thank you enough for giving Sunshine back!!!!!

I wrote to Purdue and told them about him being able to
walk in a crowd with out the /gentle leader and not having
a problem with other people and dogs.

I told them their advice did not work. Their advice was
to use the gentle leader at all times and when he was
around people or dogs to have him sit and reward with
treats--one really good suggestions was to have people
coming toward us stop when he got stressed or aroused
and not move until we backed away-

- can you just see me yelling at people to stop on the street
until I get his attention with treats.

They also suggested the possibility of using drugs-prozac-
but thought he was too dangerous as the drug would make
him less fearful and then he might attack or become more
sure of himself and become dominate aggressive. Just had
to share their great advice with you but I am sure you have
heard it all--even I am becoming an expert on bad advice.

----------------------------------


Jasen
2006-02-23 06:59:45 EST
I must admit, even though you have some good points in what you want to get
across, you could stop the ranting and be a little more precise and to the
point about how you post. The length of your posts are rather tiring and a
little too much to read through. If you really want to help people, maybe
try and not be so BOASTFUL and GO ON WITH CAPITOLS AND STICK YOUR NAME IN
ANYTHING THAT SOUNDS LIKE IT BECAUSE IT IS ANNOYING!
Then people might actually listen to what you have to say more than they do
now.
cheers,
Jasen.
Oh, and the other reason desexing is a good idea for most people is because
it helps reduce the numbers of unwanted puppies who would have a more
miserable life than one simply being desexed. What would you rather? A
desexed, temporarily inconvenienced puppy, or a starving, homeless, or
abused unwanted one? Because that's what can often become of those.
<*y@HotMail.Com> wrote in
message news:1140680668.590636.96410@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> HOWEDY red rover,
>
> red rover wrote:
>> In article <BZ3Lf.24025$_S7.725@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>, maybenot2
>> @hotmail.com says...
>> > Yes, things are much more enjoyable since I got what approaches a real
>> > newsreader and killfiled him.
>> >
>> > "John Wesley" <JohnWesley1987@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> >
>> > > We all have heard this story before. He is in everyones killfile.
>> > > We
>> > > don't even know he posts unless someone mentions him, but thanks for
>> > > the
>> > > warning anyway!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> HOWE does he expect anyone to get anything Howet of his postings?
>
> S-HOWEND like you done pretty good... at least with your SPELLIN.
>
>> rr
>>
>> sorry I couln't resist!
>
> THAT was The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's INTENT <{) ; ~ ) >
>
> WELCOME To The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
> NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
> Training Method Forums. I'm Jerry Howe, The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ;
> ~ ) >
>
> Here's your own FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
> CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
> Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual <{) : ~ } >
>
> <{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
> <{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
> <{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
> <{#}: ~ } > http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u < { ~ :{@}>
> <{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
> <{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
> <{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
>
> The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior
> Never Change,
> Or They'd Not Be Scientific
> And Could Not Obtain
> Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Safe Effective Results
> For All Handler's And All Dogs,
> ALL OVER THE WHOLE WILD WORLD,
> NEARLY INSTANTLY,
> As Taught In Your FREE Copy Of The Simply Amazing Puppy
> Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
> FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual
> <{) ; ~ ) >
>
> "It is by muteness that a dog becomes
> so utterly beyond value."
>
> Like a confessor Priest?
>
> "With him, words play no torturing tricks..., "
> John Galsworthy.
>
> Don't bet your dog won't tell on you...
> Their behaviors reflect
> HOWER words, actions and training quirks.
> Jerry HOWE, The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
>
> In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
> FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
> SAME SAME SAME SAME,
> For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.
>
> "As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
> nearly 50 years at Ohio University, there is no treatment
> more useful for dogs than tender loving care." George von
> Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate, Academy of
> Behavioral Medicine.
>
> ALL temperament and behavior problems are
> CAUSED BY MISHANDLING <{) ; ~ ) >
>
> "...all the highest nervous activity, as it manifests
> itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a continual
> change of these three fundamental processes --
> excitation, inhibition and disinhibition," Ivan P. Pavlov
>
> "Postitive emotions arising in connection
> with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
> of its pragmatic significance at a given
> moment, serve as the reinforcement. IOW,
> emotions, not outside rewards, are what
> reinforces any behavior," Ivan Pavlov.
>
> "All animals learn best through play." -- Konrad Lorenz
>
> ALL Behavior Problems Are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING
>
> "If you talk with the animals, they will talk with you
> and you will know each other.
> If you do not talk to them, you will not know them,
> and what you do not know you will fear.
>
> What one fears, one destroys."
> Chief Dan George
>
> You gotta FORGET EVERY THING you've been TAUGHT
> abHOWET HOWE to handle and train your dog. Study
> your own FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
> 100% CONSITENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
> WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual and ASK
> The Amazing Puppy Wizard if you need any additional
> FREE HEELP <{) : ~ ) >
>
>
> From: "Dr. Von" <drv...@mindspring.com>
> Date: 12 Sep 2005 10:52:19 -0700
> Subject: Re: Clicker Training for Dogs Newsgroups?
>
> Jen wrote:
>> I would love to know of one as well. If there was
>> enough people interested maybe we could start one.
>> I've just started clicker training my dog and have
>> been doing the positive training for a while now.
>> I think it's great!!
>> Jen
>> "artbylucy" <artbyl...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:OMudnRS23OLEc7zenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>> > Hello,
>> > Does anyone know of a dedicated newsgroup for
>> > positive-only dog training, in particular clicker
>> > training?
>> > Thanks,
>> > Lucy
>
> Jen, your request for a positive only dog training list,
> needs the same answer as I give the folk who ask why I
> don't have a list for what I do with biofeedback.
>
> The method is so simple, and if you adopt it and relate
> to your dog in such a positive manner you won't have any
> more problems and there is no need for any more technique.
>
> With Puppies we Ph.D. psychologists have been outflanked
> by the entirely practical and effective methods described
> in http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u. Free download, nothing
> sold, no mailing list, no distribution of your name. Free
> support if needed.
>
> With ADHD kids I provide similar information at
> www.drbiofeedback.com and there is no need for
> a list dealing with problems with kids. Apply
> as directed and have happy healthy doggies or
> kiddies.
>
> Not difficult.
>
> George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
>
> P.S. jerk and choke, spanking, shocking, scruff shake,
> choke, chin chucks, all those negatives, denial of
> affection etc. are harmful, dranging, obscenities.
>
> You might want to consider Pavlov's typology to
> understand "hard and soft dogs" - essentially he
> taught that there are outward and inward responding
> organisms in weak and strong nervous systems and if
> you grasp this firmly you'll shape your training
> methods effectively.
>
> Punishment ALWAYS deranges behavior, and so is
> recommended and given only by deranged humans.
>
> Of course, it doesn't matter if we are talking
> dogs, cats, people, sheep, even husbands. Dr. Von
>
> What's important is, "does Shamu reliably eat
> the fish and not the pretty girl?"
>
> George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.
>
> From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com
> To: <d...@arcane-computing.com
> Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:38 PM
> Subject: Doggy advice
>
> Scott, Jerry Howe forwarded me the letter below.
> I'm glad that you referred negatively to Jerry's
> habit of CAPITALIZING and HOWEING everything.
>
> I personally hate this habit of his. I think it is his
> way of diluting his authority - IME he is a very modest
> fellow. However, contrary to your sneer, he is very
> competent at living with dogs.
>
> I thought I'd list a series of actions which I found
> on the list, folk asking advice on what to do about
> dogs doing this and that, for example:
>
> whining,
> humping, hunching,
> pacing,
> self mutilation - paw licking, side sucking,
> spinning,
> prolonged barking, barking at shadows,
> overstimulated barking,
> fighting, bullying other dogs,
> compulsive digging,
> compulsive scratching,
> compulsive chewing,
> frantic behavior,
> chasing light, chasing shadow,
> stealing food,
> digging in garbage can,
> loosing house (toilet) training.
> inappropriate fearfulness
> aggression.
>
> The thing that is fascinating to me, as an ethologist who
> graduated from college 50 years ago and has spent all of
> the intervening time working with animals (including the
> human animal), is that you never see any of these behaviors
> in wild dingoes, jackals, coyotes or wolves, you don't even
> see these behaviors in hyenas (who aren't dog related).
>
> You see these behaviors in human managed animals, especially
> animals who live with neurotic hysterical humans.
>
> As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
> nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
> is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving
> care.
>
> George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
> Academy of Behavioral Medicine
>
> "Linda" <llindaleedan...@msn.com wrote in message
> news:
>
> I have been trying for the last 18 months to help my
> dog who became fear aggressive at 18 month of age.
> I do not know what started the problem but he came
> aggressive first with dogs and then began lunging and
> snapping at people. Until this time he loved everyone
> and could play with any dog. He was well socialized
> ad I took him with me everywhere.
>
> At 13 months he passed the Canine Good Citizens
> Test except he could let me leave him. I had used
> clicker training to teach him manners and tricks but
> it was not working on his aggression problem.
>
> I took him to vets who suggested a low protein diet,
> trainers who charged $800 to only make him worse.
> They tried to use a prong collar and he froze, urinated
> and tried to climb on my head to help him. they then
> suggested a shock collar I knew this approach was not
> working as he was becoming more aggressive.
>
> I took him to an animal behaviorist with Ph. D. 400 miles
> away who told me to "KEEP HIM SAFE" and read a book
> on the fearful canine. I tried another trainer who tried to
> use a nylon chock collar but it only made him worse.
>
> I read hundreds of books,"CULTURE CLASH", "DOG
> ARE FROM NEPTUNE", "THE OTHER END OF THE
> LEASH", ETC looking for help. We finally went to Purdue
> University Small Animal Behavior Clinic and they said he
> had fear aggression, punishment would not work, use the
> gentle leader and when out walking and he got stressed
> have the people stop until he could get in control using
> treats, and work on clicker training.
>
> At that point I knew more about clicker training and using
> the gentle leader than they did! Nothing was working--he
> would not come when I called him and would run away when
> I tried to catch him. I was afraid to walk him even in the
> neighborhood as we had become that "mean dog and women who
> hasn't trained her dog"
>
> I went to four trainers in both Michigan and Florida who
> were trainer/specialists in aggression and the last two
> were so afraid of him they could not approach him. No one
> said I should give up on him and kill him but they would
> say "You have to realize he is dangerous and you are
> responsible for him."
>
> *(You got LUCKY, Linda... They coulda got Sunshine
> DEAD on us. Damned near did... too.)
>
> As last resort I tried the internet again--I had had on
> going discussions with trainers from Triple Crown and Dr
> Meister with out any help-and I found the ad to Doggy Do
> Right and messaged Jerry to ask if this might help my dog.
> He said solving the aggression problem was EZ but I could
> not believe him even when I downloaded the manual.
>
> The name of the method was right I was at my Wits End.
> I had been working for 18 months!
>
> Using the can sound three time he came, and still comes
> from anywhere with the command-"comegoodboy" Next
> I tried the can when walking him--when he saw a dog three
> blocks away he went off-lunging and snapping-I used the
> can sound and he looked at me like uhn?
>
> I used it three more times and we got to the other dog-
> -the looked at me wagging his tail--the other person
> looked at me like why are shaking that can but just walked
> on by.
>
> When ever I try to explain about the sound people look at
> me like "you must be out of your mind"
>
> The results can make a believer!!!
>
> Three weeks since beginning the Wits End Training
> Manual program I walked him without the gentle leader
> in a busy shopping area with many dogs.
>
> He just seemed to not notice any one.
>
> When people talked to him or ask his name he would
> look at then and wag his tail and let then pet him.
>
> I still can not believe the change in him--we can now
> enjoy life out in public.
>
> If I had not found the Wits End method I know there
> was no hope for him and he would have hurt someone
> Through all this he never growled at me, guarded his
> toys or food or showed any sign of aggression with me.
>
> My goal is to get the message out to all dog lovers that
> dogs can be trained fast, easily and problems solved with
> out force, pain, food or anything but sound and praise!!!!
>
> I know most people would have given up on him a long time
> ago but he was and is my life. Solving the problem was EZ
> but only with the right approach-sound and praise.
>
> I know because I tried everything else and nothing worked!!!
>
> ================================
>
> From: Linda Daniel
> To: Jerry Howe
> Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:06 AM
> Subject: Re: - Re: dog aggression
>
> Thanks for writing--I would be happy to do almost anything
> to get your approach out to dog owners as I know it would
> save so many lives. I know at times I was so frustrated I
> thought of giving up on Sunshine but of course I never would
> have but many people would have. The world just does not
> know you can train a dog in just a few sessions and actually
> solve problems.
>
> We will be here until late April and we really have no plans-
> -just to enjoy the warmth and sun of Florida, so any time
> you could meet us would be great. I drive so I would be
> happy to come to you anytime anywhere!
>
> We went to Celebration today and two little poodles got
> right into his face and he just sat there--I GOT a little
> scared but he handled it just fine.--a couple of times people
> would ask his name and want to pet him and he just went
> to them tail wagging and rolled over for them rub his tummy.
>
> He really just is not concerned about people passing, even
> those on rollerblades! I have always used a gentle leader
> in public but he spent most of time rubbing his face on the
> grass--today I used his collar and he was so much happier!!
>
> Only problem is he will stop to smell and I can not get
> stopped soon enough to keep the leash loose. He never
> pulled ahead of me but when he gets into smelling I have
> a hard time getting him going--at times I think he could
> smell a blade of grass for 10 minutes.
>
> I can never thank you enough for giving Sunshine back!!!!!
>
> I wrote to Purdue and told them about him being able to
> walk in a crowd with out the /gentle leader and not having
> a problem with other people and dogs.
>
> I told them their advice did not work. Their advice was
> to use the gentle leader at all times and when he was
> around people or dogs to have him sit and reward with
> treats--one really good suggestions was to have people
> coming toward us stop when he got stressed or aroused
> and not move until we backed away-
>
> - can you just see me yelling at people to stop on the street
> until I get his attention with treats.
>
> They also suggested the possibility of using drugs-prozac-
> but thought he was too dangerous as the drug would make
> him less fearful and then he might attack or become more
> sure of himself and become dominate aggressive. Just had
> to share their great advice with you but I am sure you have
> heard it all--even I am becoming an expert on bad advice.
>
> ----------------------------------
>



T*@Mail.Com
2006-02-23 14:06:49 EST
Hello jasen,

Jasen wrote:
> I must admit,

That's the first step towards rehabilitation, jasen:

Twelve Steps, Twelve Traditions:

1. We admitted we were powerless to HOWEtwit the
cunning of the domestic puppy dog - - that HOWER
deceit, abuse and mishandling, HOWER fragile
defective ego's, inferiority complexes and weak
fear ridden minds, have made HOWER parents,
SP-HOWESES, children, dogs, employers and employee's
and our own live's, unmanageable, miserable, insane,
cruel, and unfulfilled.

2. Came to believe that NO power is greater than
HOWER human intellect guided by the teachings of
HOWER FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual
and nothing but self examination, honesty, gentleness
and unconditional love, trust and respect could
restore us HOWERselves, HOWER friends and HOWER
kin, to sanity.

3. Made a consciHOWES decision to turn HOWER
will and HOWER lives over to The Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Philosophy
and asked HOWER Puppy Wizard if we understood and
observed HIS WORDS and TEACHINGS, apupriately.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory
of HOWERselves and stopped blaming other's for
HOWER inability to communicate and demonstrate
apupriate thinking, feeling and behavior.

5. Admitted to doG, to ourselves and to another non
dog abusing human being, the exact nature of HOWER
wrongs and left them with their own FREE copy of your
own FREE copy of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual and advised them to
ask Their Puppy Wizard for FREE extra help, if they
should ever need any, here abHOWETS or hereafter..

6. Were entirely ready to have Your Puppy Wizard
remove all these defects of morals, ethics, principles,
character, judgement, cowardice and human decency.

7. Humbly and sincerely asked HIM to remove HOWER
shortcomings and to forgive us HOWER natural born
sins and self indulgent intentional crimes against
man, doG, HISSELF and HOWER own Human Nature.

8. Made a list of all persons and animals we had
harmed including HOWERselves and became willing
to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people and animals
wherever possible and instruct humans to not harm
or injure others and encourage them to study their
own FREE copy of your FREE copy of The Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual and to
ASK FOR FREE ADDITIONAL HEELP, if necessary..

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when
we were wrong promptly consulted HOWER FREE copy
of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual or asked HOWER Puppy Wizard for FREE
Divine Guidance.

11. Sought through praise and demonstrated self
control, to improve our consciHOWES contact with
HOWER dogs, parents, children, spHOWESES, employees,
and employer's, as we understood HOWER Puppy Wizard,
praying only for knowledge of HIS will for us and
the P-HOWER to carry out the teachings of The Puppy
Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
philosophy despite criticism, aversion, animosity,
anger and threats incurred from other less intelligent
uncaring human beings struggling with their own guilt,
shame and anger for their own failures, cruelty,
vindictiveness, anger, guilt, self loathing and shame.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of
these steps, we tried to carry this message to dog
lovers and abusers, parents and grandparents, uncles,
aunts, teachers, employer's, friends and acquaintances
and to practice these principles in all our affairs
till there are no MOORE abuses disguised as CORRECTIONS,
LOVE, CARE, SHELTER, RESCUE and con men like ed w of
http://www.petloss.con, professor SCRUFF SHAKE dermer
of the ANAL-ytic behaviorISM department of UofWI, Master
Of Deception blankman of http://www.dogplay.com, captain
artHURT haggerty, uncle matty, and all alpha/pain/fear/
force/intimidation lying dog abusing Punk Thug Cowards
like cesar milan "the dog whisperer" and MENTAL PATIENTS
who know when and HOWE to HURT and MURDER a dog to train IT.

> even though you have some good points

When folks sez The simply Amazing Puppy Wizard "has some good
points" that usually means they've been embarrassed to death
and are having a hard time reconciling their own issues against
the FACTS they've learned through The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's
100% consistently nearly instantly successful free WWW Wits' End
Dog Training Method Manual.

Re read and FOLLOW the Twelve Steps, Twelve Traditionas and
ASK The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard FOR FREE additional HEELP.

> in what you want to get across,

The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard has given you all the information
you need to properly handle raise and train your dogs children and
spouses with unconditional love trust and respect and achieve 100%
total non physical control of all temperament and behavior problems
through demonstrated self control and effective scientific and
psychological conditioning techniques.

The DOG LOVERS here REFUSE to rehabilitate themselves and
will DO and SAY ANY THING to DEFEND their alleged RIGHT to
HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER innocent defenseless dumb critters.

> you could stop the ranting and be a little more precise

You want more precise than THAT???

> and to the point about how you post.

WON cannot be any more TO THE POINT, jasen.

What's your issue?

> The length of your posts are rather tiring

When folks sez The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's Posts are
too lengthy and confusing it usually means they can't deal
with all the PAINFUL INFORMATION they've been reading. Granted,
in some cases it has literally pushed some readers right over
the edge into psychosis and confinement to mental institutes,
while others just scream "NO, NO!, NO!" and warn folks to
KILLFILE the INFORMATION they need to rehabilitate themselves.

Those people have very long posted psychotic mental heelth case
histories.

DOGS DO NOT HAVE temperament and behavior problems, jasen. ALL
temperament and behavior problems are CAUSED by mishandling, not
genetics, not past histories <{) ; ~ ) >

> and a little too much to read through.

Take your time. RELAXXX. STUDY. Reread the vital information
perhaps two or three times till it sinks in past your own
subconscious self protection filters.

> If you really want to help people,

This sounds like deja vu:

From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: JUMPING / MOUTHING On PEOPLE (Ninnyboy)
Date: 2001-08-14 17:15:25 PST

In article <2e501ccd.0108141341.7f18d...@posting.google.com>
m*.@yahoo.com (Matthew Burnside) writes:

Dear Matt:

Many have offered Jerry constructive advice but Jerry
has failed to profit from it.

My sincere advice is to filter out Jerry's posts.

--Marshall

PS: I have put "Ninnyboy" in the header for many of us filter
posts with this term. The term indicates that the post
is about Jerry.

I have read rpdb for about five years. Consequently, I urge newbies to
attend to the civil and rational posts of the rpdb regulars from whom I
have
learned much. They include: Ann (,Twzl, Sligo & Roy), Amy Dahl, Diane
Blackman, jdoee, Janet Boss, Susan Fraser, Avrama Gingold, Nancy
Holmes,
Lynn Kosmakos, Bob Maida, MaryBeth, Ruth Mays, Cindy Tittle Moore,
Robin
Nuttall, Denna Pace, John Richardson, Sarah Sionnach, Ludwig Smith,
Jane
Webb, and Terri Willis.

Marshall Lev Dermer/Associate Professor/Behavior Analysis
Specialty/
Department of Psychology/University of Wisconsin--Milwaukee/
Milwaukee, WI 53201

d*.@uwm.edu http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer

"If I am not for myself, who will be for me. But if I am only for
myself, what am I?" _The Talmud_

-----------------------------------
EVERY WON of those CIVIL and RATIONAL posters from whom professor
"SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM NO! into ITS face for five seconds and
lock IT in a box for ten minutes contemplation" dermer "HAS LEARNED
MUCH" is a PROVEN LYING DOG ABUSING MENTAL CASE and most of them
don't post here abHOWETS nodoGdameneDMOORE.

> maybe try and not be so BOASTFUL

You mean by QUOTING The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End
Dog Training Method Manual Students POSTED CASE HISTORIES and
TESTIMONIALS of their 100% CONSISTENT NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS?

> and GO ON WITH CAPITOLS AND STICK YOUR NAME IN ANYTHING
> THAT SOUNDS LIKE IT BECAUSE IT IS ANNOYING!

INDEEDY, that IS annoying and makes The Simply Amazing Puppy
Wizard's informative Posts difficult to read. HOWEver, The
Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard came here to IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE
and DISCREDIT the miserable lying dog abusing punk thug
cowards and active acute chronic long term incurable mental
cases who object to The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard. The
creative use of HOWEisms can be copared to the writing styles
of e e cummings, Dr. Seuss and William Shakespear. The other
benefit being is, it seem to make the DOG LOVERS here abHOWETS
even more enraged, psychotic and truthful and THAT'S necessary
to bring their illness to the forefront so's new readers like
yourself can IDENTIFY them for yourself and make your own
decisions. The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard doesn't want to
FORCE REHABILITATION on anyWON, it's up to YOU to decide:

HOWEDY kelly,

"culprit" <culpri...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:bl22ho$76rdi$1@ID-58739.news.uni-berlin.de...

> "AIMEE" <countrygirl0...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1afc3ce9.0309260757.5f5908ae@posting.google.com...

> > We had fallen into a rut - constant bickering and tension,
> > we never laughed or had FUN together - but now, with the
> > same mindset used in THE PUPPY WIZARDS dog training,
> > our communications channels have opened, and we now
> > work together instead of against one another.

> TPW saved your marriage?

INDEEDY.

> kick ass!

The Puppy Wizard doesn't approve of violence.

> that's a new one, innit?

NOT AT ALL, kelly.

> we better add that to the list of magical things the wiz can do!

INDEEDY.

> train all dogs perfectly, in minutes.

GUARANTEED.

> prevent seizures.

DONE THAT.

> make children behave better.

GUARANTEED.

> save bad marriages.

DONE THAT.

> am i missing anything?

INDEEDY. You're missing HUMAN DECENCY, MORALS,
ETHICS, PRINCIPLES, and ALL REASON.

> -kelly

And that ain't all The Puppy Wizard SPECIALIZES in, kelly.

> not really in need of saving, thanks.

NO PROBLEMO! You're inscribed in the book of eternal death.
You're a liar and a dog abuser and a MENTAL CASE.

lyingdogDUMMY wrote:
> Well, the newest shill on the scene must be Michael,
> because Jerry couldn't possibly spell "literalists."

"AIMEE" <countrygirl0...@yahoo.com> wrote in message:

Your reply doesn't even pertain to the subject...

Why don't we discuss why you feel you need hurt
animals to "train" them?

I've actually met TPW. I called him a few times with questions
about the training method, and he realized that there were some
underlying problems.

Axel (my dog) had a special situation.

So, TPW met with us in our home.

The first thing he noticed was that Axel's collar was too tight.

We loosened it, and immediately Axel calmed down quite a bit.

We went outside and worked on the HOT AND COLD HANDLING EXERCISE
and THE FAMILY PACK LEADERSHIP EXERCIZE. That seemed to get us
headed in the right direction, but we were still having a few
problems with Axel's anxiety.

The main reason TPW visited our home - I found this out
recently during one of our conversations- was to see how
my husband and I interacted with one another. I had been
following the methods precisely, but Axel was still having
difficulty.

TPW's assumptions were correct - we were causing alot
of Axel's anxiety with our arguments and tension. TPW
told me that Axel has been one of his most difficult dogs
to work with.

Axel had his anxieties from mishandling and from my
husband and myself.

We had a few problems because I was unwilling to accept the
fact that I needed to be "nice" even though I wasn't being
treated "nicely", but once I realized that was the only way
I could really get Axel past his anxiety, I worked on being
a loving wife (even though I didn't really want to be).

AND GUESS WHAT? My husband saw the difference, and he followed suit.

Now, we have a stress free dog, and a good marriage.

Can you tell me how forcing someone (dog, person, cat)
to do what YOU want them to do, is going to improve a
situation? I tried that with my husband and with my dog,
and it didn't work with either of them.

Your methods have an 85% success rate - and my dog
was one of the 15% that doesn't accept your methods.

TPW has 100% success rate. You do the math.

If TPW hadn't helped us, Axel wouldn't be where he is today.

============================

> Then people might actually listen to what
> you have to say more than they do now.

Wrong again, jasen. DECENT PEOPLE DO NOT POST HERE abHOWETS.
DECENT people read a couple posts and study their own FREE
COPY of The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual and go on with NORMAL STRESS FREE LIVES.

> cheers,

LikeWIZE.

> Jasen.

> Oh, and the other reason desexing is a good idea

SEZ WHO, jasen? The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard SEZ sexually
surgically mutilating dogs CAUSES PHOBIAS and AGGRESSION and
shortens dog's lives. The VETERINARY MALPRACTICIONERS KNOW
this and WON'T ADMIT IT to you on accHOWENT of THAT'S THEIR
BREAD an BUTTER, jasen.

> for most people

We're ALL the same, jasen.

> is because it helps reduce the numbers of unwanted puppies

You mean from their dogs runnin loose unsupervised, jasen?

LIKE THIS?:

From: Momi...@webtv.net (misty)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:29:09 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Jerry, why non-physical praise?

Beth wrote:
> So, jerry's techniques didnt' work for Peach?

Never had a chance to try them on her... I was still
using the e-fence and chains to keep her in the yard.

The suggestions I received here to keep Peach home were:
build a fence... wasn't going to happen.. we plan on putting
a modular home here within the next few years... put more
fence at the top of the pen I used so both dogs could play
bitey face w/o tangling, and similar suggestions.

Jerry was the only one to mention border training... but he
was kook supreme ;-P So I ignored him... no killfiles with
webtv.. at that time Jerry had his own troll, somewhat like
Candace, so the group was not very conducive to learning anything.

At one point I even b*tched about Jerry.

By the time I tried out Jerry's manual Peach had already ran away.

Not very good at the google groups search but you'll find my
first post at "runaway dog message 30" within that thread is
mention of the dogs taking off and being gone for 2 days. I
stopped posting for a bit... my middle boy was devastated that
his dog was gone... Zelda came home but not her mom.

The next few posts from me were ones about/to Jerry.

Then Jerry made the WETM accessible for webbes, I put it
in my e-mail (no storage otherwise on webby unless you put
stuff on a webpage) and read it, read it and read it.

Once I understood what the concept was, I implemented it
on Zelda. It worked and I now have a great housedog!

I only regret that my own distrust of Jerry caused me to lose
another wonderful dog. Peach was an absolute gem with little
kids. I and my boys still miss her. Sometimes I still look
to see if she came home when we get back from trips. Maybe
Peach would still have ran away... I don't know and never will....

~misty

From: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:16:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry, why non-physical praise?

Peach would be there sittin pretty had our pals not given you a bum
steer cause they're EMBARRASSED and AFRAID of losing their careers
and reputations.... Jerry.

Stick around, we're just startin to have FUN learning and
sharing...J;~)

"misty" <Momi...@webtv.net wrote in message news:
16990-3CAB1F8...@storefull-2293.public.lawson.webtv.net...

I don't now whether Peach is dead or alive. I do know she's
not here with us. I really can't blame anyone here for her
loss.

I'm the one who ignored your advice. I did it because of how
you write/wrote. I was unwilling to accept the idea that my
using a shock collar could have any bearing on Peach not
wanting to stay home.

Up until I started using it my main concern had been keeping
my dogs in their own yard.
Once I started using the e-fence... well, then my concern
became how to keep them from running off for days on end.

I lost valuable training time becoming embroiled in the
anti-shock debate and the "Jerry sux" tirades.

I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in the world now <g>
A Wits End Trained dog, one who is completely housetrained,
doesn't chew up stuff, stays in the yard, and doesn't bark all
the time.

IOW a great companion and friend.

Thanks Jerry!

=====================

misty" <Momi...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6946-3B6337A1-329@storefull-233.iap.bryant.webtv.net...

We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring. Two
dogs, two collars We now have one dog and no collars.

Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want to come
back in the yard and would run for days.

The last time, Peach didn't come back home.

I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how to train
my dog. She is now border trained. A few minutes each day
reinforces her desire to stay in the yard.

She no longer runs out into the road, I can stop her from
chasing cats and she no longer cringes when we walk
around the yard.

I can not say loud or long enough how much I hate the
e-fence and its collars. If you can't get a regular fence
then you need to train your dog.

I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep my dog in
our yard again.

The price was too high:-( ~misty

--------------------------------

> who would have a more miserable life than one simply being desexed.

So called "unwanted puppies" have a MISERABLE LIFE on accHOWENT of
THIS:

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to
it. When he barks, use the line for a correction.-
if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar," Lynn K.

"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.

<except when it is>

"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs. It's a safety
necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.

<except when it is>

"So what? Whoever said that it's right to
always not confront? We sure can try, but
a dog who knows a command and growls when
given it is certainly being confrontational".
You can't simply walk away and pretend it
didn't happen or leave it for later work in
every situation." Lynn K.

--------------------

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.

----------------

"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828.07753.00000001@mb-m18.aol.com...

> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss
>
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...

> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916.10096.00001938@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.

An INSENSITIVE DOG???

> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.

"Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap,"
professora avrama gingold.

"BethF" <b...@NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.com>
wrote in message
news:v4r8kkfr257e1a@corp.supernews.com...

Kyle, FWIW, i thought it was pretty funny,
and i often call my little dog the turd, because
he is one. Some folks think its HORRRIBLE i
would insult my dog like that so i guess its just a
matter of personality.

Kyle, the best way to teach him to stay away is to
step on him once. Seriously.

"Whatever Motivates The Dog, But I Daresay Most
Of The Dogs I Have In Classes Just Aren't That
Interested In Praise."

"BethF" <d...@alaska.com> wrote in message
news:uohnj3r4a4e85e@corp.supernews.com...

Maybe that's what we should do - hold back the dobie
girl so that Izzy can put Simon in his place.

"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness," mustang sally.

"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.

This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.

Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
Subject: Re: shock collars

Sally Hennessey <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63h8ekqiforibadrff2@4ax.com...

Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-
righteous, this post shows and absence of knowledge
in the differences in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps
a lack of ability to perceive same.

The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to
whom corrections and discomfort, even pain, were
unimportant does not mean that such dogs do not exist.

What it means is that you don't know as much about
dogs as you think you do, and you surely don't know
a damn thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.

I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with
one of her housemates; that dog had no fear or
anything, and pain incurred during a fight meant
nothing to her.

I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that
you, Alison, continue to say things to people such as
what you said to Theresa about causing her dog to
suffer (at least I guess that's what you meant by
"you cause your dog suffers" - - must be the King's
English you guys talk about over there) means that
you are an ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person
who is not worth further notice.

Sally Hennessey

"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv128jnumgmb2m27opr@4ax.com...

Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.

I'm starting to see some similarities here.

Sally Hennessey

Here's janet's PARTNER:

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

sinofabitch writes:
> > What I have said- repeatedly - is that he
> > took posts from two different people,
> > took pieces of them out of context,

Of curse. QUOTED. You wanna see it in context?

> > cobbled them together,

No. There was WON DIRECT QUOTE.

> > then added his own words:

"Neatly," and "Smartly."

> > and a fake signature.

"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.

> > Which is exactly what he did.

INDEEDY. That's HOWE COME you deny it.

> > The actual quote is misleading

That so?

> > when taken out of context,

We'd been talkin abHOWET beatin the dog with a shoe...

> > and Jerry's faked "quote"

The WON sinofabitch totally DENIES.

> > is downright meaningless.

Only if you're a MENTAL CASE.

Here's Jerry's version

"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.

Here's yours:

"I dropped the leash, threw my
right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
grabbed her opposite foot with my
left hand, rolled her on her side,
leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
nipped her ear.
--Sara Sionnach

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

See?

"Marshall Dermer" <der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:a3h5qn$mra$1@uwm.edu...

> Di,
> I don't believe you mentioned a particular kind of
> training. If you are interested in training retrieval
> behavior than do consider our own Amy Dahl's:
> The 10-Minute Retriever : How to Make a Well-
> Mannered, Obedient and Enthusiastic Gun Dog
> in 10 Minutes a Day by John I. Dahl, Amy Dahl

You failed to mention your pals the dahls are
proven liars and dog abusers, professor "SCRUFF SHAKE:"

"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog
I Do Not Believe There Is A Single Circumstance
Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything But
Destructive," "I don't see why anyone would want
to choke or beat a dog, or how any trainer could
possibly get a good working dog by making them
unhapper, fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying
frosty dahl.

> just $17.95 at Amazon.com.
> (Also, it is best to killfile posts from the few
> regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
> ill-mannered, or just plain ill.)
> --Marshall

amy lying frosty dahl continues:

"On the other extreme, the really ard dogs
we have trained require much more frequent
and heavy application of pressure (PAIN j.h.)
to get the job done,

This is continued resistance to your increasing
authority, and the job is not done until it is overcome

Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield
the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them
more sharply

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and
the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist!
Eventually, the dog will give in

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
efforts to escaping the ear pinch

You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell
instead of your thumb even get a studded collar
and pinch the ear against that

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so
urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.

CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready
Right Hand, As it catches on, try using the stick
and no ear pinch.

When the dog is digging out to beat the stick
and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch,
you are finished

If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin,
say "No! Hold!"

(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps because
the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided
it isn't worth it)" lying frosty dahl.

"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.

terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."

lying frosty dahl sez she doesn't twist:

"None of my posts, prior to or subsequent to
Jerry Howe's attacks, encourage anyone to
twist ears, beat dogs, confront, intimidate,
frighten, or any of the crap he constantly
attributes to me," lying frosty dahl.

BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!

"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.

Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies
HURT all their lives like HOWE HOWER dog
lovers PREFER to HURT THEIR DOGS?

"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."

The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.

We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...

Sez on our FAQ'S pages at K9 Web you should
knee the dog in the chest, step on its toes, throw
him down by his ears and climb all over it like a
raped ape growling into his throat and bite IT on
his ears, or leash pop it on a pronged spiked pinch
choke collar or pop him in the snout with the heel
of your palm.

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

> What would you rather?

The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard would rather you attend
to the civil rational posters above from whom professor
"SCRUFF SHAKE DERMER" has "LEARNED MUCH":

"I have read rpdb for about five years. Consequently, I urge newbies to
attend to the civil and rational posts of the rpdb regulars from whom I

have learned much. They include: Ann (,Twzl, Sligo & Roy), Amy Dahl,
Diane
Blackman, jdoee, Janet Boss, Susan Fraser, Avrama Gingold, Nancy
Holmes,
Lynn Kosmakos, Bob Maida, MaryBeth, Ruth Mays, Cindy Tittle Moore,
Robin
Nuttall, Denna Pace, John Richardson, Sarah Sionnach, Ludwig Smith,
Jane
Webb, and Terri Willis"

> A desexed,

You mean surgically sexually mutilated, jasen.

> temporarily inconvenienced puppy,

The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard currently owns a bitch taken
from a "SHELTER" who was surgically sexually mutilated who
EXXXPERIENCES PAIN EVERY TIME SHE LAYS DHOWEN, jasen. The
three other UN MUTILATED bitches The Simply Amaizng Puppy
Wizard currently owns DO NOT HAVE ANY PROBLEM for having
been left "INTACT" and there are NO puppies forthcoming.

> or a starving, homeless, or abused unwanted one?

You mean LIKE THIS?:

"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.

Should I have refused to groom them?

Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."

Lynn K.

"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:

"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20

g*.@my-deja.com wrote:
> How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.

Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.

"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.

Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."

8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).

If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.

This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."



>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
<news:04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews>...

Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
quotes are true.
In the posts below you take responsibility for
making those calls.

In your post above, you state you do not
make those calls.

Which one is it?

WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day
For Twenty Years

I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-
depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50
mg of Zoloft every day.

I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to
learn more, while happily sharing pertinent
information I have learned. But if I were ever
to post such sh*t, I would hope that every other
reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we
earn the right to participate in by observing
the easily understood rules and contributing
to in constructive ways."

Lynn K.

------------------------------­­­-----------

"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."

Lynn K.
------------------------------­­­-----------

LYNN K. and LOIS E, and a BiLateral, BiPolar
conversation on Mental problems. LYNN AND LOIS
Almost 50 years on mental illness medications combined

------------------------------­­­-----------

> But I think what Lois was referring to was
> the fact that Darlene actually stated at
> some point that she was bipolar--and, IIRC,
> that meds did not work for her--so she was
> prone to major-league ups and downs and sudden
> enthusiasms..

"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."

Lynn K.
------------------------------­­­-----------

LYNN K. and the UNQUIET MIND

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/03

BoxHill wrote:
> I know I am totally off topic here, but have
> you read "The Unquiet Mind"?

Yeah. It's interesting, but kind of
watered down for the mass market, if
you know what I mean. There's really
quite a lot of good work out there and
decent research. Thank God.

Lynn K.
------------------------------­­­---------

MOTHER AND CHILD REUNION "KUCKOO!! CUCKOO!!!"

MOTHER (LOIS E.) 22 YEARS on TRICYCLICS, DAUGHTER BIPOLAR...

YOU DO THE MATH

"What's really terrific, is now days you can say proudly,
'I take anti-depressives'"

From: Gary & lois Edwards (g...@bmi.net)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/02

BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS

"I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics
for about 22 years. Been there, done that, have
the t-shirt to prove it. What's really terrific,
is now days you can say proudly,

"I take anti-depressives". Back when I started
taking them it was seen as something shameful.
If you cut your leg off, and were lying there with
a bleeding stump, you'd never let the word
depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
"You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have
any pain meds.....you could become addicted."

The good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt who's
father locked her in her room back in the twenties
because she was simple. A shame that medication
probably would have helped her live a normal life.

No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's
personality, she has a way of making grandiose
plans when at the top of her manic cycle....as
does my daughter. I wasn't saying that anyone
with problems could be counted on to be
irresponsible."

Lois E.
------------------------------­­­-------

"It was kind of funny, in an absurd way. The rabbit
was completely still, eyes open and glazed, dried
blood in his ears and mouth, with his back legs
stiffening quickly.

It was her pet rabbit, not a wild bunny, so
that made it much harder for her.

And he was killed by bichons.

Her dogs had torn it apart. My one student who had
shown up (another weird thing about the night) and I
had to continuously check for heart and bowel sounds
for her, until she could accept that the rabbit was dead.

(The rigor mortis in his back legs she attributed to "pain").

Full moon.

Canine Action Dog Trainer
http://www.canineaction.com

> Then she mentioned the names of her dogs,
> and I immediately remembered them.

YOUR STUDENT, leah. Like that RECENT GRADUATE
STUDENT Rottie who'd been in your SOCIALIZATION
classes since IT was ten weeks old who RECENTLY
MURDERED a little innocent DEAD DOG at the park.

> I will always remember the dogs.

Yeah. You and ed w of PET LOSS dot COIN.

From: dfrntdr...@aol.comMURK-OFF (Leah)
Date: 05 Nov 2002 00:55:40 GMT
Subject: Re: The Puppy Wizard

>"Mike E" m...@egbert.com wrote:
> My question was "Is there any legitimacy to the
> harshly-worded teachings of the Puppy Wizard?"

Any legitimate advice he gives is plagiarized from
other, more coherent sources.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. :}

PetsMart Pet Trainer
See My Furry Family At:

Leah Effexor for chronic depression, in denial
about being mentally ill. Has taken
several other mentally ill medications
before settling on effexor for her chronic
mental problems. Recenly changed to
another ANTI PSYCHOTIC prescription.

"I don't think Jerry intentionally lies. I think he twists
things around in his own mind until he actually believes
what he's saying."

Jerry is the only poster here who gives dangerous
advice. Google for spike and squirt. And let's not
forget the times he's told posters whose dogs have
medical problems that his halfwits-end program could
cure them.

PetsMart Pet Trainer
My Kids, My Students, My Life

> Because that's what can often become of those.

INDEED? HOWE COME, may The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard ask???

Page: 1 2   Next  (First | Last)


2020 - UsenetArchives.com | Contact Us | Privacy | Stats | Site Search
Become our Patron