Dog Discussion: New Here Need Help

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John Smith
2006-02-12 17:13:09 EST
I would like tips on house training but would much prefer not to hear or
read any of that HOWE nonsense that seems to clog up every thread making
them almost useless and un-readable. Is it possible to have a thread without
all that?

I have been trying crate training but my 8 week old Westie just potties in
her crate.



John Wesley
2006-02-12 21:16:41 EST
In article <VpOHf.12218$2O6.5691@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>,
M*o@here.com says...
> I would like tips on house training but would much prefer not to hear or
> read any of that HOWE nonsense that seems to clog up every thread making
> them almost useless and un-readable. Is it possible to have a thread without
> all that?
>
> I have been trying crate training but my 8 week old Westie just potties in
> her crate.
>
>
>
How often are you taking her out? At that age she is probably going to
have to go about every 2 hours during the day. My Chi had to go a LOT
at that age. Take her food and water up 2 to 2.5 hrs before bed. Take
her out right before you go to bed. She may not be able to make it
through the night at first. Take her out first thing in the moring. If
you have to work during the day get her a larger pin to put her in
during the day and put paper or wee wee pads from the pet store down in
the corner. Also you can use a puppy proofed bathroom or laundry room
for this. Their little bladders don't get big enough to hold thier
water all day until about 6 months or so. My Chi is 19 weeks. He has
to be taken out every 3 or 4 hours. He has been making it through the
night in the crate since about 10 weeks or so. When you take her
outside and tell her to go pee pee (or whatever you wanna say) and then
when she goes tell her good pee pee and give her a tasty treat. Do the
same with the pooping. This will encourage her to go outside. If she
goes in the house don't make a big deal out of it. Whatever you do
don't rub her nose in it. If, however, you catch them in the act you
can clap or make a load noise to make them quit and get them outside to
finish and then treat. Also they usually do a lot of circling before
they go. Watch her before she goes outside so when she does that inside
you can take her out real quick before she blows. Remember for the next
several weeks linoleum is your friend! Clean any spots on the carpet
with a real good enzyme cleaner from the pet store so she won't smell it
and keep using the same spot. My mother used to use white vinegar
mixed with warm water. That works pretty good in a pinch if you don't
have the enzyme cleaner. I think thats about it. Any questions let me
know here or feel free to e-mail me and I'll be glad to help. Killfile
Jerry Howe, the amazing whatever and all his personalities. Hes crazy
and his methods are useless. I got him killfiled. It makes all the dog
newsgroups nice.

jw

M*@MUCHOMAIL.COM
2006-02-12 22:36:58 EST
Hello John,

John Smith wrote:
> I would like tips on house training

Housebreaking is the most natural innate instinctive
behavior a dog can have. It's a territorial imperative
at four weeks of age. Puppys, cats, even children raised
in apropriate environments will crawl away from their
living quarters to relieve themselves.

> but would much prefer not to hear or read any of that HOWE nonsense

Indeed he can be annoying,John. However, his information is
scientifically verifiably sound and is unsurpassed in the
world of behavior modification. In behavioal analysis we
judged information on its quantative results, not upon the
basis of our personal feelings towards the researcher.

As a professor of behavioral analysis and dog lover having
suffered the slings and arrows of Jerry Howe, The Puppy
Wizard's vile disposition and cutting, cruel remarks and
having not thoroughly read nor understood the complexity
of his free manual, this was the first analysis:

From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST

And how do we know this aspect of his
advice is right?

Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.

(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
ill-mannered, or just plain ill.­),

--Marshall

Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of
Wisconsin-Milwaukee/ Milwaukee, WI 53201/ der...@uwm.edu
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
"Life is just too serious to be taken entirely seriousyl!"

However, the only reasonable conclusion after six years of
observations of his student's reported consistent case history
data is that Mr. Howe has the fastest, gentlest, most effective
scientific methods of behavior modification which are effective
for all mammals, far superior than even to those taught in
university behavioral degree programs:

From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<*.@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM

Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard

Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,

I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.

You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent­,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts ­to
alert the world to animal abuse.

We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.

Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?

In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.

--Marshall Dermer

> that seems to clog up every thread making
> them almost useless and un-readable.

In searching the archives this is what I've found on house training:

From: Mike (m.bidd...@ns.sympatico.ca)
Subject: Re: Info. on the puppy wizard?
Date: 2004-07-18 14:27:02 PST

> > Oh, and did I mention his methods work, ya nuff said.
> > Mike

> Ok Mike which part worked for you?

It helped clear problems from my dogs in the
field using the can penny distraction technique.

Works like a charm.

My dogs get distracted easy from their jobs ie,
retrieving or training to find lost people, oh did
I mention that I am a Search and Rescue Team
Leader.

Sorry that slipped my mind.

I have read volumes of training books and don't
know where people get that Jerry copied others
work as I have NEVER come across his methods
before. I would like to see proof.

Just like Jerry outlined I eliminated problems one
at at time as they arose. I used to try and train to
the way I wanted them but this is backward, you
train out the problems leaving what you want left over.

Funny part is the second dog who had the same
problems as the other didn't need correcting for
some of his habits after I cleared it from the first
dog.

Seemed he learned through osmosis.

Nice side benefit there.

It nearly came to giving them up to a 3rd party
trainer as they were not performing well. The
VAST majority of working dog trainers are
agressive in their actions with the dogs.

I tried it and it didn't work and guess what I
was at my "Whits End" then someone I new
turned me onto Jerry and the rest is history.

I referred friends and families to Jerry's manual
and all have had great results. Starting puppies
out on the distraction technique is especially
good because they never develop the habit.

I had my sisters dog healing, sitting and down
stay reliably at 8-9 weeks. The first night home
following Jerrys advice we ditched the crate and
put the pup on the floor beside the bed and after
2 whimpers NOT A SOUND OUT OF THAT DOG
FOR 6 HRS! first night, that has never happened
in all my days.

Sorry, the man understands dogs its that simple.

Mike

From: AIMEE (countrygirl0...@yahoo.com)
Subject: House training and such...
Date: 2003-10-08 16:18:56 PST

I've been having a problem with my dog, Axel,
relieving himself in the house while I'm away
from home.

I've used TPW method's, and yesterday I was out
for 12 hours, and Axel didn't have one single "accident".

Today, I had hoped that the results would be just as
good - and they were (I was out for 11 hours).

The problem began when, as a puppy, Axel would
relieve himself in the house and I would point
at the mess and tell him "NO" or "Bad Dog".

That made him afraid to relieve himself in the house
or infront of me.

After I got TPW's training manual, I corrected my
mishandling of these instances.

When I came home to an "accident", I would simply
drop a can near the area and ask Axel "What's that?"
Then I would clean it up - with out showing him I was
the least bit upset about the mess, and when he looked
at the spot I would tell him "Good boy, you're a good dog".

This has been an ongoing problem, and thanks to the
Puppy Wizard, we've finally got it taken care of...

Also, Axel LOVES the cat's litter box...He enjoys the
"snacks" he can find in there...I followed TPW's methods
by alternating sounds and praising him while or before
he sticks his nose in it, and today, he's been going into
the room with the cat box and barking. That's because
he's thinking about getting into the box, but he knows he
shouldn't.

Thank you, Jerry, for all you help. You've been a
blessing to all of us.

AIMEE

===================

From: AIMEE (countrygirl0...@yahoo.com):

I own a black an tan coonhound. We got him
as a puppy, and due to constant mishandling
(pulling on his lead, negative corrections, and
the occasional use of a bark collar) I ended
up with a very anxious dog.

I couldn't leave him home alone, I couldn't
crate him, I couldn't even take my dog for
walks because he feared EVERYTHING.

I was going to have to get rid of him if things
didn't turn around.

My husband and I searched the internet for
answers - AND WE FOUND THE PUPPY WIZARD.

For all of you disbeliveers out there HIS METHODS WORK!

I've followed his manual, and we now have a
dog that can be left home alone, that heels
on command, that can go outside and NOT
be afraid of everything he sees.

Not only have his methods helped our dog, but
our marriage has gotten better. We had fallen
into a rut - constant bickering and tension, we
never laughed or had FUN together - but now,
with the same mindset used in THE PUPPY
WIZARDS dog training, our communications
channels have opened, and we now work
together instead of against one another.

For all the "Literalists" out there, NO WE DID
NOT TEACH EACH OTHER TO SIT, STAY,
OR HEEL.

We simply eliminated the nagging and the acting
out to get NEGATIVE attention from one another
since we weren't getting the POSITIVE attention
we wanted.

So, it's been proven - THE PUPPY WIZARDS
METHODS WORK.

It's up to you to accept them. Yes, there's alot of blame
that we have to accept, but once we realize that we've
caused these problems to arise, we can strive to make
things better.

AIMEE

=================

> Is it possible to have a thread without all that?

As we live and learn, time heels all wounds, doesn't it:

From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: JUMPING / MOUTHING On PEOPLE (Ninnyboy)
Date: 2001-08-14 17:15:25 PST

In article <2e501ccd.0108141341.7f18d...@posting.google.com>
m*.@yahoo.com (Matthew Burnside) writes:

Dear Matt:

Many have offered Jerry constructive advice but Jerry
has failed to profit from it.

My sincere advice is to filter out Jerry's posts.

--Marshall

PS: I have put "Ninnyboy" in the header for many of us filter
posts with this term. The term indicates that the post
is about Jerry.

_____________________________________________________________

I have read rpdb for about five years. Consequently, I urge newbies to
attend to the civil and rational posts of the rpdb regulars from whom I
have
learned much. They include: Ann (,Twzl, Sligo & Roy), Amy Dahl, Diane
Blackman, jdoee, Janet Boss, Susan Fraser, Avrama Gingold, Nancy
Holmes,
Lynn Kosmakos, Bob Maida, MaryBeth, Ruth Mays, Cindy Tittle Moore,
Robin
Nuttall, Denna Pace, John Richardson, Sarah Sionnach, Ludwig Smith,
Jane
Webb, and Terri Willis.

Marshall Lev Dermer/Associate Professor/Behavior Analysis
Specialty/
Department of Psychology/University of Wisconsin--Milwaukee/
Milwaukee, WI 53201

d*.@uwm.edu http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer

"If I am not for myself, who will be for me. But if I am only for
myself, what am I?" _The Talmud_

---------------------------------------------------

> I have been trying crate training but my 8
> week old Westie just potties in her crate.

Crating puppys with no food water or toilet area causes
extreme anxiousness. Your puppy is evacuating in the crate
as a visceral response to stress. Ignoring her cries will
produce stress induced auto immune diseases and mistrust.

Crating pups inapropriately teaches them their crate is
their house (despite their visceral panic response of
"messing") and your house is their territory to foul and
disavails you of training opportunities and causes
destructive chewing, excessive prolonged barking and crying,
digging, spinning, even light / shadow / fly snapping obsessive
compulsive disorders, shyness, aggression, self mutilation,
car sickness, fear of thunder, seizures, endocrine disorders,
urinary tract / bladder / kidney / yeast ear infections /
irritable bowel syndrome, even blindness and dental disease.

Here's what I found in the archives. There's dozens of cases
just like these::

From: dubyajlo
Date: Mon, Dec 19 2005 4:36 pm
Email: "dubyajlo" <wjlong...@hotmail.com>

Shotze is a 3yr. old neutered male Schnoodle (schnauzer/poodle) who
suffers from separation anxiety. He cannot be left alone. He does
naughty stuff if not kenneled and when kenneled gets distraught. Any
advice?

------------

From: kat - view profile
Date: Wed, Oct 19 2005 11:49 pm
Email: "kat" <kat873...@sbcglobal.net>

Hello,

I am new to the group since recently adopting a new lab mix puppy.
Hunter is 3 months old and has no previous training. He came from a
humane society where I imagine he was crated all the time. My boyfriend
and I decided we were only going to crate our puppy when we are not
home and cannot take him with us. Here's the problem, at night when he
sleeps with us he can hold his bladder and bowel for seven hours.

The only time he's had an accident is when he had a bout of diarrhea we
since gotten treated. My boyfriend works days and I work nights, so the
only time puppy is crated is a half hour between our shifts and if we
go out (3 hours @ the most).

No matter how long he is in the crate 15min- 4hrs. He ALWAYS pees
in his crate and lays in it. Since I realized he is doing this I
don't put anything in with him except for some Kongs. He would chew
newspaper, blankets, towels, ect. and still pee.

The only accidents he has during the day is when I am not paying
close enough attention to him. When at out of his crate he usually
sniffs around the front door when he has to go.

Also, when I do put him in the crate he whines and rushes the door for
at least three hours before quieting down.
Am I doing something wrong?
Thanks

----------

Those dogs are having crate anxiety and will
suffer deathly chronic diseaes as a result.
There's dozens upon dozens of similar case
histories just like those.


From: "LEE " <>
To: <ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net>
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 6:11 AM
Subject: Wits end training in England

HOWEDY Lee,

> Hi,
> I have stumbled across your training method on the internet

EXCELLENT!

Nuthin happens by accident or coincidence.

> and I am pleased to say, one part of it has worked
> already after only 3 days of training.

Wonderful! Please follow the method entirely and
PRECISELY. It NEVER FAILS, but it's very unforgiving
of mistakes and doesn't play well with other methods.

> I own two boxers, one of which is a rescue dog who
> sufferred from 'seperation anxiety'

SA usually takes no more than WON day or two, to break.

> and would constantly chew his bedding in his crate
> when in the house alone. After only 2 sessions of
> praising his favourite nylon bone and leaving it in
> front of the crate before leaving, the behaviour is gone!
> Lee.

HOWETSTANDING!

===================


"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This (Destructive Separation
Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite A Few
Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME
The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer, 33
Years Experience.

From: Hoku Beltz
To: The Puppy Wizard
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:12 PM
Subject: Mahalo

Aloha Jerry,

Just wanted to let you know that the surrogate toy
technique is working wonders. I have not had a
shredded sheet for over a week now. It is nice
to be able to leave the bed made and come home
to a made bed.

Your program is awesome, but you already know
that. Keep up the good work!

Hoku

==================

Chris Williams writes:

"The FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method manual
I do find valuable. Much of it I recognize as what
I've always done without thinking of it as "training".
New stuff, I've used. His anchoring technique erased
the last of Mac's fireworks trauma,"

Dave Cohen <coh...@total.net writes:

Re: Barking Deterrants Needed...

Hi. Please understand that I do not know Jerry
and have spoken with him briefly once by email.

I have no stake or interest in the success of his
business. I simply want to thank him publicly for
one of his tips, with regards to separation anxiety.

I thought it seemed far fetched to praise a stuffed
animal and then say good bye to my own dog, but
I am usually a very open minded person, so I tried it.

Well, lo and behold- the damn trick worked!

I think Jerry has some intriguing techniques, and
personally I think everyone who constantly criticizes
him is not understanding his logic. Thank you Jerry!

=====================

Date: 2001-11-14 09:13:21 PST
"Yves Dussault" <ydussa...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message

news:3b1110ff.3798143@news1.on.sympatico.ca...

> Hi!
> I have downloaded Wit's End Dog Training Method...
> In there there is that trick with a toy about "Separation
> anxiety surrogate toy technique."
> Anybody has tried that... I would like to give it a try with
> my GSP (German shorthair.....pointer)
> Comments? Yves Dussault

Yves,

I for one have tried it... in fact I use this all the time. I
just used it last evening while my husband and I went
out to see "The Mummy Returns" (a horrible turkey of
a movie, but at least the house wasn't chewed from
end to end in the meantime).

Yes, it really works. :-) So do the other distraction/praise
techniques described therein.

If you are interested in the manual, you will probably want to
begin the exercises as well.

Regards,
Lisa

===========

From: Eric
To: jho...@bellsouth.net
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 7:54 AM
Subject: just checking in..

Jerry!

You helped me with my pal Dundee about a year ago
regarding submissive peeing. Just wanted to let you
know he's doing great- he was "cured" in about 2 days
using your techniques!

He has since become the "smartest dog in the world"!
Once I stopped thinking like a human and got inside his
head, I can teach him ANYTHING, usually in a matter
of minutes. Makes me look like an expert dog-trainer.

I rescued two strays last week, cleaned 'em up, wormed
'em, and am getting them their shots. Time to get inside
their heads and teach them to teach themselves how to
be good dogs!

Instead of feeling like "training" is a chore, I look forward
to working with these guys a couple times a day...

Although I don't follow your instructions "to a T", I learned
from you to "think like a dog" and stimulate their brain rather
than beating ass or pinching, or any of that nonsense.

I know damn well I would NOT be loyal to someone who beat MY ass
lol!

Well, just wanted to thank you for rattling the bushes
out there and teaching folks the RIGHT way to "train" dogs.

A horseman friend of mine uses very similar techniques in
training his horses- he calls it "natural horsemanship". He
is hated by nearly all the local "trainers" yet somehow he
repeatedly wins at every show he attends. He rarely shows
any more, but goes now and then to rub their noses in it
(pun intended)... Too cool....

Have a great holiday season and keep up the good work!

Eric , Dundee, Sammy, and Maynard

==========================


"JoeTheGuru" <joetheg...@hotmail.com.NOSPAM wrote in message

JERRY SAVE THIS LAD!!!!

or it could be a troll <are you a troll??
do not use it on your dog.....

would you use it on your best friend.....

I have read jerry's book, it seems too easy at first.
however I started to use some of the training out of it and now.

I have a dog that heels as fast as a collie in a
trial.<great dane X mastiff

I have a dog that stays and never leaves the spot.

I have a dog that comes when ever I call.

I have a dog that never leaves the yard, never runs away.

I have a dog that stands still to be washed
with the cold hose.

I have a dog that never pulls on
the lead when we walk.

I have a dog that puts up with more abuse then a
dog should from my 2 year old <and loves it

I have a dog that barks at the fence only when some ones there.

I have a dog that would not care less if there is
another dog in the park <only wants to be with and
please me though a lot of this is due to me training the dog
spending the time with the dog.

jerry's book showed me not to punish the dog. but
just to work with the dog. which I liked the idea of
hence why I tried it. it is easy to become
frustrated with a dog when you are trying to train
them.

I look forward to my next puppy <ban dog> so
I can use the information from jerry's book
and see just how good a dog can get.

the dog I have now was when I picked her up from
the RSPCA. she could not walk on a lead <no idea.
cowered from every noise <and wet her self, messed
in the house at every turn. acted like I was killing her
when I dragged her over to the mess.

this was A 6 month old pup that had been beaten
<2.5 feet to the shoulder. I could of taken her back
however I knew I could bring her back to being to
be a dog.

the dog I have now at 1.5 years <same dog is a dog
to be proud to walk down the street with <3 feet to
the shoulder and still growing.

so well behaved even when people walk passed with
a out of control dog. gentle with my child and trustworthy
< I never have to worry that my dog will bite her, only
have to worry if a stranger comes over to my child.
still that is not a worry, she places herself between my
child and the stranger.

I may be plugging jerry's book, however with the
crap out there it is good to see that someone has
moved forward. looked at a different way to train
dogs. yes he gets into people, and in their face
you should back off a little jerry however he is
sick of the bashing, choking, shocking, shaking
and everything else. so jerry save this lad from
ruining his dog. later, Joe

===================

From: Paul Bousie
To: The Puppy Wizard
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 8:00 AM
Subject: Geday.

Hey J,

I see nothings changed on the NG. Still the same
old crappy advice and misunderstanding of the
only advice worth reading.

The problem with your method J is that I can't
answer the questions on the NG no more, people
are after a quick fix, they don't want to understand
that dog training requires a disiplined method, I'm
now really understanding that they are all result
orientated, they want the dog to sit, to down, to
stay, to come, to stop it's "bad" behaviours, they
want to stamp out each anxiety one at a time not
realising they create a new one as they deal with the last.

I feel sorry for them, they don't understand, they
don't even realise the errors of thier ways and
they arn't self thinkers, they follow the majority,
after all if everyone says thats the way then it
must be. I've finally realised people don't want
to learn to train dogs they want a trained dog,
they want a little puppet that sits and stays and
downs and does all the nice doggy stuff or so
they think, then when the dog acts like a dog
they come squealing to the NG asking how to
stop the dog being a dog.

I have a nice little visulisation of a dogs mind
that I think demonstrates the way we approach
dog training. Imagine lots of little circles all in a
cluster, each one representing a dog anxiety or
behaviour ( desied or not), each circle represents
something about the dog, all of them create what
a dog is.

The traditional way to train a dog is to stamp out
the "bad" circles, try to eliminate as many as you
can, problem is each one you stamp out another
takes it's place (anxiety circles can't be destroyed
they just change), obviously it's a futile exercise,
but thats the traditional way.

Now imagine a big circle that completely surrounds
all the small circles, this big circle is the whole dog,
that's what we get hold of with all the little circles
inside, we don't see the little circles we see the BIG
circle the macro as you put it and use that to train.

I laugh now when I see posts critisising you, they
are critising something they don't even understand
or even have the capacity to understand.

See ya,

Paul

=====================


Subject: Unsuccessful Crating of Puppy
From: The Puppy Wizard - view profile
Date: Fri, Jul 4 2003 10:41 pm
Email: "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWiz...@earthlink.net>

HOWEDY EC,

"EC" <eastco...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:572ec404.0307041831.191aff7f@posting.google.com...

> Before our 8 week old (now 11-1/2 weeks old) boxer puppy came home, we
> decided that he should be crated

BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW HOWE TO TRAIN IT.

> so that at times when no one is available to be with him,

Not having been able to train IT wouldn't matter.

> he might be safe and secure.

BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW HOWE TO TRAIN IT.

> All of the reading I have done suggests that there is nothing cruel about

crating,

RIGHT, SEZ THE INCOMPETENT BLOWHARDS WHO DON'T KNOW HOWE
TO TRAIN IT.

> and in fact, an adjusted puppy comes to love having a place
> to retire to when he is anxious, scared, tired, etc.

NO. THAT'S WHAT THE INCOMPETENT BLOWHARS SAY CAUSE
THEY DON'T KNOW HOWE TO TRAIN IT.

FACT IS, CRATING CAUSES INSECURITY BY OFFERING A REFUGE
WHERE THE DOG CAN HIDE FROM HIS FEARS, CONSEQUENTLY
REINFORCING THEM.

THAT'S HOWE COME DOGS HAVE FEAR OF NOISES, CAR SICKNESS,
INTESTINAL AND DIGESTIVE DISORDERS AND OTHER TEMPERAMENT
BEHAVIOR AND HEALTH PROBLEMS, EC.

YOU BEEN HAD BY THE BEST HAS BEENS IN THE GODDAMNED BUSINESS.

> During the first few days in his new surroundings, we crated him only
> at night. I suppose this was our first mistake and that we should
> have been more diligent in putting him in the crate at other times,

YOU WANT MOORE OF THE SAME SAME?

> even if only for minutes at a time.

THAT'S SHEER IDIOCY, EC.

ENJOY YOUR PROBLEMS!

> More recently, I have tried to crate him for five minute intervals during
> the day, occasionally for a half to full hour, and at night. I can
usually
> get him in with some mild coaxing,

TAKES MINUTES TO TRAIN A DOG TO KENNEL UP ON COMAND.

> but if he is not ready to nap, he wants his immediate release.

TAKES MINUTES TO BREAK A DOG OF ANXIETY BARKING.

> We've put him in with the door open and closed.

BWWWAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

> We have included toys, blanket, clock, a shirt worn my his master,
> and even a fan (he loves the fan) on warm days/nights. We have
> crated him at night with the crate fully exposed and partially and
> fully covered.

MOORE BEWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

> He is never removed from the crate if fussy.

Oh. That's MOORE IDIOCY!!!

So you get MOORE BEWAAAAHAAHAHAHAAAAA!!!

> yelping, barking...

Then you're gonna wonder HOWE COME he has temperament
and behavior problems and HOWE COME you get MOORE
BEWWWAAAAHAHAHAAAAAHAHAAAAHAAA!!!

>which seems to be all the time he is in there.

BWWWAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

You're teaching your dog that YOU DON'T CARE abHOWET IT.

A mom dog wouldn't let her puppy cry for WON MINUTE. despite
what HOWER Gang Of Lying Dog Abusing Punk Thug Cowards
who don't have the INTELLECT to HOWEtwit the cunning of the
domestic puppy dog tells ya.

> Bottom line is

You're creating anxiety and animosity cause you've believed
the lying dog abusing Punk Thug Cowards who hurt and kill
their best dogs.

> he wants nothing to do with the crate.

Soon he'll want nuthin to do with you, too. And HE'LL BE GOIN
BEWAAAAAHAAHHAHAHAAAAA!!! soon as he gets loose and
YOU CAN'T CATCH HIM.

> When he barks, we ignore him.

That's IDIOCY and CRUEL.

> When settled (not at night), we let him out.

That's MOORE IDIOCY.

> At night, he can go for hours, barking and whining.

GOOD LUCK.

> We never give in to this

CAUSE YOU'RE A NITWIT.

> unless the dog appears to be in some distress, such as
> when needing to go out to relieve himself.

The dog needs to relieve himself because of ANXIETY.

YOU CANNOT LET YOUR DOG CRY LIKE THAT.

That's HOWE COME HOWER proefssor lying doc SCRUFF
SHAKE dermer's little dog Maxie The Magnificent Obsessively
Compulsive Masturbator is fixin to have exploratory surgery
for PSYCHOSOMATIC CHRONIC IRRITABLE BOWEL SYNDROME.

> In the three plus weeks,

You've alienated and made a nervHOWEs wreck HOWETA HIM.

> he has had only one accident in his crate, which means he really
> needed to go... dogs don't normally pee where they live/sleep.

Not till they become DISTURBED enough.

> Last night I had bedded him down at midnight... he started his barking
> shortly thereafter. He barked for the better part of the next three
> hours before he decided to take a rest.

That's sheer idiocy and pure cruelty, EC. That's befittin of professor
SCRUFF SHAKES CHILD, not appupriate care of a puppy.

> Naturally, being a pup and needing a lot of rest, he wanted to sleep
> all morning the next day. Too bad I could not do the same.

POOR YOU!

> No, we have no intention of allowing his crate on the second floor of
> the house near the bedrooms.

You're gonna learn the HARD WAY, at your puppy's expense.

> As an aside, I rise on weekday mornings at 5:00 am. Thus, there is no
> getting around that he gets his first relief of the day at that time.
> On weekend, it looks like the best I can hope for is perhaps 6:00 am.

BWWWAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

SHOWENDS like this is all abHOWET the "POOR ME'S" again.

> Anyway,

You mean, anyHOWE.

> I would be interested in hearing from those who have seen no
> progress in crating during the first month but have eventually been
> successful in crating their dog.

SHAAAZZZAAAMMM!

WE GOT PLENTY OF THAT HERE!!!

> Unfortunaly, if things don't improve soon, we may be moving the pup
> to the kitchen and forgetting the crate all together... not what we want
> to do but may need to in order to get some sleep.

POOR YOU!

> Any advice out there?

Yeah. Unless you want to have ALL the temperament and behavior
problems HOWER Gang Of Lying Dog Abusing Punk Thug Cowards
REGULARLY HAVE, you should DO what the DOG ABUSERS WARN
HOWER new readers NOT TO DO, and YOU WON'T HAVE THE
SAME SAME SAME SAME PROBLEMS THEY HAVE FOR THE NEXT
TWO YEARS, MAYBE LONGER.

> Are some dogs impossible to crate?

Naaah. NOT WHEN THE DOG IS TRAINED FIRST.

> How does one know when it is hopeless?

Oh, THAT'S EZ, EC. READ HOWER FORUM AND YOU'LL SEE
NUTHIN BUT GODDAMNED CRUEL, STUPID, and HOPELESS.

> Thanks,

You're quite welcome.

> EC

Meanwhile, INVEST in NATURE'S MIRACLE, you'll NEED A
TRUCKLOAD OF IT.

Subject: Re: Open Letter to the Puppy Wizard...
Date: 2002-12-13 09:01:46 PST

HOWEDY Disciple Paulie,

"Paul B" <NOS...@clear.net.nz> wrote in message

news:3df99724@clear.net.nz...

> "Wayne" <waynet...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:149947dd.0212121900.6a5ca54a@posting.google.com...
> > Puppy Wizard,
> Hi Wayne,
> As a real follower in Jerry's idea's and techniques I'm
> really disappointed in his current approach to this newsgroup.

Likewise, Disciple Paulie. As is Mrs. Puppy Wizard. Desperate
times call for desperate measures. You know HOWE it IS,
Disciple Paulie. You was abused by our dog lovers when you
first came here for advice. Wasn't you.

Our dog lovers told YOU The Puppy Wizard is a liar and
his methods are dangerous and ineffective. They even
called YOU a LIAR when you reported near instant
success using my FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method
manual.

> He has so much to offer and his ideas are really sound

My methods are the fastest EZiest and most effective in
the whole wide world, Disciple Paulie. You know that,
for SHORE.

> but he throws it all away with his narcissistic posts.

Well, that's on account of someobody's got to get the
heel outta here Disciple Paulie, and I figger if you won't
call a spade a spade, Your Puppy Wizard will have to
take the responsibility of EXPOSING our DOG LOVERS
as the Gang Of Lying Dog Abusing Thug Cowards they
are...

Being NICE when we got LIARS and DOG ABUSERS like ed
w of pet loss dot CON recommending we read koehler and
calling Jerry a liar and his machine a SCAM, Master Of
Deception blankman and melanie chang beating thier dogs
in the face with a shepherd's crook and professor SCRUFF
SHAKE recommending lying frosty dahl and koeher, well,
you get the picture, don't you, Disciple Paulie.

> A year or 2 ago his posts were informative,

They still are. I still write the most comprehensive treatises
on behaviorISM since Freud, Pavlov, and Skinner.

> he gave real advice and ideas

I still do. But for the most part, everything you got to know
is available in your FREE copy of my FREE Wits' End Dog
Training Method manual.

> on I suppose an alternative approach to dog training

You mean NOT HURTING DOGS, Disciple Paulie?

> which was very much worthy of consideration,

Still is, Disciple Paulie. That's HOWE COME our Gang
Of Lying Dog Abusing Thug Cowards got to LIE about
their methods and can't discuss behaviorISM with Your
Puppy Wizard or his FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method
manual students. Like you and marilyn... for example.

> indeed I learned so much from him it has
> changed my perspective of dog training,

And MOORE, I'm bettin...

> some perhaps, maybe most posters on
> this NG disagree with my reasoning,

INDEED? Could THAT be, on account of THEY'RE LYING
DOG ABUSING THUG COWARDS, Disciple Paulie? I think
we're in agreement there... Correct me if I'm wrong.

But PLEASE!

NO EAR TWISTING NOMOORE!!!

> maybe because they don't understand what I really mean

No, Disicple Paulie. It's on account of they DO really understand
what you mean. You mean our DOG LOVERS are outta business,
Disciple Paulie.

> and also because a lot of what I recommend comes from Jerry.

Sorry Disciple Paulie. These flame wars have NUTHIN to do with
JERRY. These flame wars have been going on since our resident
SADIST sindy MOOOREON of our FAQ'S pages at k0 web first
organized these forums.

The only DIFFERENCE IS, that Your Puppy Wizard has ALL the
answers and doesn't NEED to HURT dogs, and is willing to stake
the farm on puttin our Gang Of Lying Dog Abusing Thug Cowards
OUTTA THE DOG BUSINESS.

> His manual badly written

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder," Disciple Paulie. There's not
much I'm comfortable about changing, when I review my work. I'm
satisfied that it is good.

> and seemingly difficult to follow actually makes
> you really think and understand what you are trying to achieve,

INDEED, Disciple Paulie. The INTENT was to make the reader
THINK and LEARN HOWE to apply the TECHNIQUES to all
situations so my student's don't NEED my help in the future.

> in other words you understand the "concept" of what he is preaching,

INDEED. For most of our dog lovers, it's a bitter pill to swallow.

> his manual isn't a "dog training for dummies" book but something for
> those who want to explore a bit deeper and really get to grips with
> real dogs and real training.

INDEED, Disciple Paulie. That's HOWE COME our experts got to
get the heel off our forum and get the heel outta this business. All
dog behavior problems are caused by mishandling.

> Paul

HOWE COME our dog lovers call you and Nevyn and all
my students LIARS and PAID SHILLS and FORGERIES,
Disciple Paulie?

HOWEDY Group,

Here some SUCCESS STORIES ive had using
JERRY'S MANUAL

1) My dogz, two bitches - Vicious, barking, aggressive,
pulled on leash, wanted to kill any dogs they saw, fought
between each other. TWO WEEKS using Jerry's manual,
they were calm, friends, my companions.

2) ADDED A BEAGLE PUPPY (male) to my "PACK", the
girls had -NO PROBLEMS- with him from the moment I
dropped him by their noses.

3) My FRIENDS dogs 2 MALES barking and jumping
at the fence all night 3 DAYS TRAINING WITH JERRY'S
MANUAL they were CALMED AND HAVEN'T BARKED ONCE!

Added a NEW MALE DOG (2 yrs old) AND
WELCOMED HIM WITH NO WUCKAS !

4) POODLE that ATE food from the KITCHEN BENCH -
lock him in a box? NO! USE JERRYS MANUAL! 4 DAYS
AND HES NEVER DONE IT SINCE!

5) ABUSED DOGS AT THE SHELTER I WORK AT -
HAD TO BE FED WITH A BUCKET ON A STICK -
ONE WEEK ON JERRYS MANUAL, THE SUPERVISOR
TOLD ME TO PUT THEM IN THE PUBLIC KENNELS
FOR SALE !

Quite amazing to - I thought they were just dull coloured
dogs, but after I had removed the fear and anxiety their
hairs coloured up amazingly.

6) STAFFY FEMALE who would NOT DROP HER
BALL! She carried it around all day and night - 3
DAYS on jerrys MANUAL and she now DROPS
it when u ASK her to!

BWHWHAHAHAHAAHA !!!!

Nevyn

============

Nevyn writes:

Jerry I cannot even begin to tell you the success
Ive had with your training manual! My two mutts
have gone from out-of-control psychos to obedient
well behaved companions within a matter of weeks!

AND My friends have seen the success and have asked me
to work on their dogs!

I was working with a 5 month old Ridgeback female today
and she was being an angel after like an hour of working
with her!

It is AMAZING!!

I pity those fools who take their dogs to classes
where the "Trainers"abuse their dogs! (do they
have a degree? A masters? a Phd? by the way? NO
they are average joes off the street who think
they know how to train dogs!)

Once again, Jerry, you are a genius!

NEVYN and my Dogs, Rizzo and Midget, My Grandparents
dogs, Dusty and Snoopy, and my friends pup, Jazz.

================


"A cheerful heart is good medicine,
but a crushed spirit dries up the bones".
Proverbs 17:22

Blessed are all who take refuge in HIM.

Jerry 21 And unto this people thou shalt say,
Thus saith the LORD Of DOG;
Behold, I set before you
The Way Of Life,
And
The Way Of Death.

And Disciple Paulie said unto them, Thus shall ye
say to your master, Thus saith The LORD Of DOG,
Be not afraid of the words which thou hast heard,
with which the servants of koehler and university
trained behaviorists and veterinary malpracticioners
have blasphemed me.

Disciple Paulie Sez:

"No One Understands How Wits End Training Really
Works, They Assume It's All Nicey Nicey And don't
Realise It's A Very Disciplined Method That Deals With
Any Situation And The Foundation Is Built On Trust
And Understanding.

I've never forced my dogs to do anything, I tell them
they are good dogs and they seem to follow me, once
I told them they were bad dogs and they ran away from
me, now I only ever tell them they are good dogs and
they always are, always.

Trust your dog, ask it to do your request and say "good
dog" sincerely at the end of the request and I bet you'll
find your dog thinking then responding everytime.
A bit of respect works wonders, the same rule applies
to every aspect of the relationship with your dog.

Obedience and affection are not related, if they were
everyone would have obedient dogs.

I have found giving dogs "payment" in advance i.e. "Sam
sit goodboy" makes the dogs want to respond, after all,
all dogs want to be "good dogs" and if you tell them they
are good then they feel an obligation to obey your request.

Telling Sam he's a good dog AFTER he sit's apart from
been too late is also a gamble because if he doesn't
sit then there's no positive interaction.
Paul

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth:
I came not to send peace,
but a sword.
"For I am come to set a man at variance against his father,
and the daughter against her mother,
the daughter in law against her mother in law
and the scholar against his professors.
"And a man's foes shall be they of his own HOWEshold."
The Puppy Prophet <{); ~ ) >

All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer

"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.

"If you've got them by the balls their hearts
and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.


John Wesley
2006-02-12 23:02:32 EST
In article <1139801818.779721.172680@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
M*I@MUCHOMAIL.COM says...
> Hello John,
>
> John Smith wrote:
> > I would like tips on house training
>
> Housebreaking is the most natural innate instinctive
> behavior a dog can have. It's a territorial imperative
> at four weeks of age. Puppys, cats, even children raised
> in apropriate environments will crawl away from their
> living quarters to relieve themselves.
>
>
This is another of Jerrys personas. He likes to talk to himself. Just
ignore or filter.

jw

M*@MUCHOMAIL.COM
2006-02-12 23:25:10 EST
Hello John,

John Wesley wrote:
> In article <VpOHf.12218$2O6.5691@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>,
> Metwo@here.com says...
> > I would like tips on house training but would much prefer not to hear or
> > read any of that HOWE nonsense that seems to clog up every thread making
> > them almost useless and un-readable. Is it possible to have a thread without
> > all that?

Probably not as long as the puppy wizard is alive and well
enough to harrass those he considers liars, dog abusers,
cowards and mental cases.

> > I have been trying crate training but my 8
> > week old Westie just potties in her crate.

You'd have to understand effective scientific conditioning
to successfully train a puppy to relax and enjoy solitude.

> How often are you taking her out? At that age she is probably
> going to have to go about every 2 hours during the day.

Taking a puppy out too frequently will disavail him of
developing self control, John. It be wise to allow the
puppy to learn to ask to relieve himself and take him
out as needed, not arbritrarily scheduling him to "suit
your needs" or ideas of what the pup is able to manage.

> My Chi had to go a LOT at that age.

Puppys need to relieve themselves immediately upon awakening,
after eating drinking and playing, before bedtime and first
thing in the morning.

> Take her food and water up 2 to 2.5 hrs before bed.

Veterinarians tell us puppys should ALWAYS have water
available otherwise they'll be subject to becoming
deathly ill, John.

> Take her out right before you go to bed. She may
> not be able to make it through the night at first.

That's not the experience of successful puppy rearers, John:

From: Mike (m.bidd...@ns.sympatico.ca)
Subject: Re: Info. on the puppy wizard?
Date: 2004-07-18 14:27:02 PST

> > Oh, and did I mention his methods work, ya nuff said.
> > Mike
> Ok Mike which part worked for you?

It helped clear problems from my dogs in the
field using the can penny distraction technique.

Works like a charm.

My dogs get distracted easy from their jobs ie,
retrieving or training to find lost people, oh did
I mention that I am a Search and Rescue Team
Leader.

Sorry that slipped my mind.

I have read volumes of training books and don't
know where people get that Jerry copied others
work as I have NEVER come across his methods
before. I would like to see proof.

Just like Jerry outlined I eliminated problems one
at at time as they arose. I used to try and train to
the way I wanted them but this is backward, you
train out the problems leaving what you want left over.

Funny part is the second dog who had the same
problems as the other didn't need correcting for
some of his habits after I cleared it from the first
dog.

Seemed he learned through osmosis.

Nice side benefit there.

It nearly came to giving them up to a 3rd party
trainer as they were not performing well. The
VAST majority of working dog trainers are
agressive in their actions with the dogs.

I tried it and it didn't work and guess what I
was at my "Whits End" then someone I new
turned me onto Jerry and the rest is history.

I referred friends and families to Jerry's manual
and all have had great results. Starting puppies
out on the distraction technique is especially
good because they never develop the habit.

I had my sisters dog healing, sitting and down
stay reliably at 8-9 weeks. The first night home
following Jerrys advice we ditched the crate and
put the pup on the floor beside the bed and after
2 whimpers NOT A SOUND OUT OF THAT DOG
FOR 6 HRS! first night, that has never happened
in all my days.

Sorry, the man understands dogs its that simple.

Mike


> Take her out first thing in the moring. If you have to work
> during the day get her a larger pin to put her in during the
> day and put paper or wee wee pads from the pet store down in
> the corner.

Dogs do not like to relieve themselves in their pins, John.
Most puppys have been raised on newspapers and the smell of
newsprint will automatically trigger their need to relieve
themself. Putting papers in a crate will cause the puppy to
soil his crate, consequently confounding house breaking, John.

> Also you can use a puppy proofed bathroom or laundry room for this.

Locking a dog behind a barrier will create barrier frustration,
John. You could train a puppy to stay in a room with no door
or barrier in about twenty minutes, maybe less, if you
knew how to perimeter train a dog, John.

> Their little bladders don't get big enough to hold
> thier water all day until about 6 months or so.

CITES PLEASE, John? That's not in keeping with posted
case history data from successful puppy raisers, John.

> My Chi is 19 weeks. He has to be taken out every 3 or 4 hours.

That's because you've never trained him to learn self control, John.
You've anticipated his needs and diminished his innate ability to
control himself, John.

> He has been making it through the night in the
> crate since about 10 weeks or so.

Indeed, John? Then why can your puppy not
contain himself at other times, John?

Seems as though you've trained him to train you to
take him out every 3 or 4 hours, John. Perhaps you
can remedy that situation with a little know how?

> When you take her outside and tell her to go pee pee (or
> whatever you wanna say) and then when she goes tell her
> good pee pee and give her a tasty treat.

Ahhh, that's why your puppy "needs" to go out frequently, John.
Perhaps if you didn't rely on food rewards he would only ask
to go out when necessary, John?

> Do the same with the pooping.

The puppy should need to "poop" less often unless
you're rewarding him with food for going out, John.

> This will encourage her to go outside.

Every three hours, isn't that correct, at least
according to your own case history data, John?

> If she goes in the house don't make a big deal out of it.

You mean ignore his mistakes, John? That'll encourage soiling.

> Whatever you do don't rub her nose in it.

Of course not, that's barbaric ignorant and idiotic.

> If, however, you catch them in the act you can clap or make
> a load noise to make them quit and get them outside to finish

That'll scare the pup and make him mistrust you, John, and
it'll teach the pup to mess the floor to get you to reward
him with your 100% undivided attention, John.

> and then treat.

That'll teach the pup to mess the floor to get you to
reward him with your 100% undivided attention or ask
unnecessarily to go out just to get the reward, John.

> Also they usually do a lot of circling before they go.
> Watch her before she goes outside so when she does that
> inside you can take her out real quick before she blows.

You're in your element, eh John?

> Remember for the next several weeks linoleum is your friend!

You mean because you don't know how to housebreak yur own dog, John?

> Clean any spots on the carpet with a real good enzyme cleaner
> from the pet store so she won't smell it and keep using the
> same spot.

That's absurd, John. Dogs do not "mark over" their own spots
and yur enzyme cleaner is unlikely to hide the smell from a
dog, John.

> My mother used to use white vinegar mixed with warm water.

You think vinegar is going to hide the scent from a dog, John?

> That works pretty good in a pinch if you don't have the enzyme cleaner.

Let's hope you don't try your hand at drug smuggling,
John, you'll lose your shirt to the customs K-9's.

> I think thats about it.

Not quite, John.

> Any questions let me know here or feel free to e-mail me

That's kindly of you, John. Are you in need of a friend?

> and I'll be glad to help.

With what, John? Don't sound like your own dog
has "mastered" house breakin yet at 19 weeks of
age, John. By sixteen weeks of age a propperly
handled well trained dog would be ready to compete
in AKC obedience trials and would have been house
broken for a couple months.

> Killfile Jerry Howe, the amazing whatever

You mean The Amazing Puppy Wizard, John?

> and all his personalities.

And follow your advice, John?

> Hes crazy and his methods are useless.

Well John, seems your dog needs to go out every 3 or
4 hours and is withheld of food and water unnecessarily
and inapropriately and is locked in a box when most well
trained propperly handled dogs would be starting advanced
training and hve been house trained for months, John.

> I got him killfiled.

Yes, that's apparent just judging by your "success", John.

> It makes all the dog newsgroups nice.

But of course... HOWEver, it don't make for successful dog trainin...

> jw

As a professor of behavioral analysis and dog lover having
suffered the slings and arrows of Jerry Howe, The Puppy
Wizard's vile disposition and cutting, cruel remarks and
having not thoroughly read nor understood the complexity
of his free manual, this was the first analysis:

From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST

And how do we know this aspect of his
advice is right?

Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.

(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
ill-mannered, or just plain ill.­),

--Marshall

Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of
Wisconsin-Milwaukee/ Milwaukee, WI 53201/ der...@uwm.edu
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
"Life is just too serious to be taken entirely seriousyl!"

However, the only reasonable conclusion after six years of
observations of his student's reported consistent case history
data is that Mr. Howe has the fastest, gentlest, most effective
scientific methods of behavior modification which are effective
for all mammals, far superior than even to those taught in
university behavioral degree programs:

From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<*.@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM

Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard

Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,

I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.

You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent­,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts ­to
alert the world to animal abuse.

We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.

Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?

In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.

--Marshall Dermer

Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of
Wisconsin-Milwaukee/ Milwaukee, WI 53201/ der...@uwm.edu
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer


John Wesley
2006-02-12 23:51:47 EST

>
> Taking a puppy out too frequently will disavail him of
> developing self control, John.

What about taking him out when he is about to piss on the floor. Ain't
that a good idea?

> It be wise to allow the
> puppy to learn to ask to relieve himself and take him
> out as needed, not arbritrarily scheduling him to "suit
> your needs" or ideas of what the pup is able to manage.

I don't seclude him unless I'm not here and he goes in a large 4 by 6
pen in the kitchen. When he is circling and about to piss he has to go.
Thats when you take them out. Thats when I took my dog out. He circled
and had to piss every 2 hours or so at 8 weeks. Every pup I have ever
had experience with and I raised a bunch as a kid had to go about every
2 hours in the day. Now he goes to the door when he has to go.
>
> > My Chi had to go a LOT at that age.
>
> Puppys need to relieve themselves immediately upon awakening,
> after eating drinking and playing, before bedtime and first
> thing in the morning.

No duh and when they are 8 weeks old and you let them free feed like the
vet recommends for small dogs they have to go do something about every 2
hours.
>
> > Take her food and water up 2 to 2.5 hrs before bed.
>
> Veterinarians tell us puppys should ALWAYS have water
> available otherwise they'll be subject to becoming
> deathly ill, John.
>
Bull Crap, Not my veterinarian. Do you drink at night? no and neither
does a puppy need too.


> > Take her out right before you go to bed. She may
> > not be able to make it through the night at first.
>
> That's not the experience of successful puppy rearers, John:
>
Bull crap. You wouldn't know Jerry. At 6 or 8 weeks old they pee in
the crate sometimes. They have small bladders. Lots of times you have
to take them out at 3 or 4 in the morning when they start whining. I've
been there and done that. The only thing you've ever been successful at
is annoying the heck out of the general public!

Back Into the filter you go! I don't know how you got out!


~shady Angel~
2006-02-13 20:17:29 EST
John Smith wrote:
> I would like tips on house training but would much prefer not to hear
> or read any of that HOWE nonsense that seems to clog up every thread
> making them almost useless and un-readable. Is it possible to have a
> thread without all that?
>
> I have been trying crate training but my 8 week old Westie just
> potties in her crate.

Maybee it's scarred of her crate does she go in and out freely by her self?
--
~shady angel~
when one and only one person perceives a certain reality, and (virtually)
all others perceive another, isn't that generally considered "delusional?"




John Oliver
2006-02-13 20:36:01 EST
On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 22:13:09 GMT, John Smith wrote:
> I would like tips on house training but would much prefer not to hear or
> read any of that HOWE nonsense that seems to clog up every thread making
> them almost useless and un-readable. Is it possible to have a thread without
> all that?
>
> I have been trying crate training but my 8 week old Westie just potties in
> her crate.

Howe big is the crate? If it's too big, it isn't safe from "accidents".
If it's the right size (big enough for the dog to turn around in, but
not much more), see a vet... the poor thing might have a urinary tract
infection.

--
* John Oliver http://www.john-oliver.net/ *
* Reform California gun laws - http://www.reformcagunlaws.com/ *
* http://www.gunownersca.com - http://www.crpa.org/ *
* San Diego shooters come to http://shooting.forsandiego.com/ *

John Oliver
2006-02-13 20:38:32 EST
On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 04:51:47 GMT, John Wesley wrote:
>
>>
>> Taking a puppy out too frequently will disavail him of
>> developing self control, John.

What braindead idiot said that? My killfile seems to be working maybe
too well... :-)

--
* John Oliver http://www.john-oliver.net/ *
* Reform California gun laws - http://www.reformcagunlaws.com/ *
* http://www.gunownersca.com - http://www.crpa.org/ *
* San Diego shooters come to http://shooting.forsandiego.com/ *

John Wesley
2006-02-13 21:08:54 EST
In article <slrndv2d4g.acr.joliver@ns.sdsitehosting.net>, joliver@john-
oliver.net says...
> On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 04:51:47 GMT, John Wesley wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Taking a puppy out too frequently will disavail him of
> >> developing self control, John.
>
> What braindead idiot said that? My killfile seems to be working maybe
> too well... :-)
>
>
The amazing puppy idiot said that. He had a new persona that I didn't
have in my kill file. Its in there now. He needs psychiatric help.

jw
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