Dog Discussion: "Pinch Collars DO NOT PINCH - BLOCK The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >

"Pinch Collars DO NOT PINCH - BLOCK The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
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It's Only Alimentary, Dear Watson
2006-01-29 00:15:18 EST
Subject: Re: block the "wizard"

HOWEDY bill,

Bill Plast wrote:

> block the "wizard"
> http://www.newsbackup.com/about442131-0-asc-0.
> html&sid=005d713967ac4bafc38e587c47ae96eb

> Just go to this site and follow the instructions.

Thank you, bill!

> You'll never see his crap again.

UNLESS someWON QUOTES HIM quoting YOU
HURTING dogs and LYIN abHOWET it, billy.

> He goes by a few other names so you'll
> have to delete them too!

OtherWIZE you'll be EMBARRASSED TO DEATH, billy.

> Good Luck!

Dog trainin AIN'T LUCK, billy. You HURT
and INTIMDIATE dogs and LIE abHOWET it.

> JCK

Here's your ADVICE:

Subject: crates and "pinch" collars

Crating is a great method of home-training
and pinch collars DO NOT PINCH......

When pinch collars are adjusted properly, all
they do is provide discomfort (tightness) in
the neck area.

I've worn it myself and there was never ever
ANY pain, even when it was pulled tightly.

Dogs are pack animals and also enjoy solitude.

It's amazing to see my 3YO Boxer spend much time
in his crate with the door open (free to come
and go). He'd rather sleep in his crate than on
the couch or a nice comfortable rug.

Privacy is a must for dogs, just like
it it is for us "Human Folk".

Please do not be afraid to crate-train your dog.

It is a wonderful method and your dog will
love you for it in the end.

Bill Plast

--------------

Your dog HIDES in his crate and PREFERS NOT
to be on the couch with you on accHOWENT of
YOU ABUSE HIM, billy. Dogs FEEL SAFE in their
crates like a child hiding under the blanket
from the BOOGEYMAN.

That INCREASES their PHOBIAS and CAUSES obsessive
compulsive disorders and STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE
DIS-EASES aka The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME <{); ~ ) >

From: "Bill Plast" <A...@houston.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 21:53:14 GMT

Subject: Re: What would be a suitable dog??

I'm not too sure about a Chow-Chow. They can really
have an unsure temper if not raised properly. Do you
have time to raise it? It seems you are gone a lot
of the time. If you get a rescued one, make sure it
is good with children.

-----------

A DOG IS A DOG, billy. Dogs DO NOT have "UNSURE
TEMPERAMENTS" if you DON'T HURT CRATE and INTIMDIATE
them, billy.

Subject: no bite rule

Group,

Dogs are such creatures of habit. They learn
by repetiveness...Like Pavlov's dog with the bell
and the salivation experiment.

Continous "no bite" in a firm tone and forward voice
with the removal of the hand will eventually work.

The "tone" of the voice makes the animal think twice
and stop, just as if a person yells loudly at one of
us to get our attention..

You can use any command...like......"big top", or
""kung fu". The dog hears this command and departs
from the situation if done repeatedly and correctly.

As far as habit and hearing goes, if your dog was named
Spike..and you called "Mike"...he or she would come.

They learn from repitition and repetition goes a
long way with our canine friends!

------------

It takes MINUTES to install ANY command or
EXXXTINGUISH ANY behavior using effective
non physical conditioning, billy. You HURT
and INTIMDIATE dogs and THAT'S HOWE COME
you can't TRAIN them not to bite NEARLY
INSTANTLY, billy <{); ~ ) >

"Ned" <komod...@rogers.com wrote in message

Hi ! Our black lab girl is 3 months old
(she will be 4 months on the 30th).

When we first brought her home she had a bad habit
of trying to nip our faces (including my 3 year old
twins) during playtime.

It drove everyone in the house nuts and it brought
my little girls to tears as you can imagine.

We tried saying no, and that would just get her
even more excited, so we would yell no and that
would just get her "scared" but still excited.

In short it just wasn't working.

So we finally did what Jerry has suggested to you.

We used a sound do distract her and we would
immediately praise her. I have to say that it
worked great.

BUT she then moved on to nipping at the feet

LOL silly little thing.

So again, we tried no, and then louder no, but
again it didn't work so we went for the distraction
and praise. I must say that she is doing great!

I hope that helps.

Edyta aka Ned

===================

From: Becky (Becky...@new.rr.com) Subject:
Re: Crate Anxiety Date: 2002-04-04 12:56:23 PST

Try Jerry Howe's training manual and check out
his Doggy Do Right (And Kitty Will And A Rooster
Did And A Cockatoo Or Two Did Too) machine....
it is for this.

Please do not listen to the others in here that don't
like him or his methods, they have never tried them....
I have and it works!!!!

I broke my dog from nipping almost 100% in 1 day and
she usually does this SEVERAL times a day and actually
makes my kids bleed!

Try it or contact him! The manual is at the above
website also, and it is free!

Becky

===========

"Jerome Bigge" <jbi...@novagate.net wrote in message news:

I've read over Jerry Howe's "Wit's End Dog Training
Manual" now several times. And while everyone will
get something a bit different from it, I found that
his "hot & cold" exercise (first part of manual) is
in my opinion the "key" to the entire thing.

Once you have taught your dog (puppy) to keep an
"eye on you", then the rest of its training (come,
etc) becomes much easier.

Additionally Jerry does pointout "why" dogs do the
things that they do.

So even if you don't like Jerry's posts, you might
like to download his manual (it's free, after all!)
and give it a look over.

You might learn something.

My Boston Terrier puppy would chew up the newspaper
until I used the techniques in Jerry Howe's manual
to train her not to do it.

Simple distraction and praise. You may not agree with
all he says, but the manual is well worth reading even
if you don't use all of it.

Jerome Bigge NRA Life Member
Supporter of National Health Insurance
CompTIA A Certified Computer Technician
Author of the "Warlady" & "Wartime" series.
Download at "http://members.tripod.com/~jbigge"

=================

rom: "N < To: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net
Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 8:46 PM Subject:
Re: Shadow

Hey, Thanks so much for this morning, your patience
is otherworldly ! That was such a hectic time, I
forgot that T was off to work this morning and he
usually calls on me to help get him out the door,
than M woke up, and well, you got a feel for it !

Which is probably good actually, I bet there was
a lot of insight gained. (It's usually much calmer
around here) Now back to Shadow.

WOW !

Not a "new dog" yet. But really so much calmer !

I took on the big challenge of "THE BROOM" now
that's a real attention getter for her. But IT
WORKED ! She settled down near by and let me sweep !

She had a couple bouts of grabbing my pants with her
teeth, and a few times she wanted to gnaw on me, but
she settled down and gave up pretty quickly.

AND it's 5:45 here, her time to totally lose it, and
she's out back with T and M playing calmly near M,
coming in to check on me periodically, and only peed
in my office once today.

So, do you have old smashed soda cans all over your
house (we keep one or more in each room) or did you
fashion a classier version ? Hey, thanks again, I'll
let you know HOWE it's going.

Hugs, and big sloppy wet doggy kisses, N & Co.

"If I Knew It Would Be That Easy, I Would Have Done
This A Long Time Ago Saving Myself 5 Years Of Dealing
With A Bouncy, Over Excited Dog!, Jenn.

Hello Jenn,

"brijen" <bri...@vennercnospams.com> wrote in message
news:397cfaa3_1@news.oanet.com...

> Hello Jerry,
> I just wanted to let you know that I
> am trying this right now.

Good.

> I am the woman who wrote to you a while ago about
> trying to walk my dog without the pinch collar.

I recall.

> She also goes APE when I grab the leash. We have been
> doing this technique you recommend for about a half an
> hour now and the results are already fantastic, as well
> as amusing!

Yeah, dog training should always be more fun than work.

> At first, we went out and I stood there, and Anya kept
> trying to head out to the sidewalk. When I didn't follow,
> she came and sat beside me at heel! (Thanks to
> your help!) She'd NEVER done that before.

It's the same principle as in the Hot And Cold Exercise.

> I rewarded that with a few steps of a walk, but we came in
> after about 30 seconds. She stopped and looked at me as
> if she were thinking, "What? But we just got out here!" The
> second and third times, she was even MORE eager when
> she saw the leash, and I got the same look when I turned
> around to go back in. The fourth time, she just bounced a
> bit as she walked to the door with me, and sat nicely to
> wait until I hooked up the leash, and this last time, I HAD
> TO CALL HER TO ME!!!!!!!!!!

Fine. That's because dogs learn on the basis of
four repetitions. That's not to say they can't learn
some things faster, but for breaking habits, it usually
happens the fourth time we repeat a lesson.

Then we need to repeat the lesson at three more
locations our time in each to generalize the idea.
Let's say your dog gets excited when you take her
lead and go to the front door. She would probably
do the same at the back door, but to not such a degree.

Likewise for any other door.

It would behoove you to repeat the exercise with
several other doors and it would be easiest to
start with a door that had less excitement involved
with it.

> If I knew it would be that easy, I would have done
> this a long time ago saving myself 5 years of dealing
> with a bouncy, over excited dog!

The non force methods work fast and easy because
we are not challenging the dog or calling our attention
to their behavior problems.

> I have to tell you how the walk is going though. I have a
> lot of problems there, but it is all ME. I have been so
> conditioned to "correct" her, that I still find myself
> yanking on her collar.

Yes, those habits are hard to break. It's easier for
me to train a person who has no experience at all
because they have no bad habits of pulling and
forcing control.

> I feel so awful! We have only been working in the yard
> without distractions, because I honestly don't know what
> will happen if she sees another dog and I won't have the
> pinch collar to keep her from dragging me over for a fight.

You know that working the dog in the back yard is not
preferable, because that causes them some anxiety
because it's their free area. But with your dog and with
the difficulty he is to handle, I don't see any reason you
shouldn't do the Family Leadership Exercise and the
come command several times out there, and then you'll
have the control to do it in a more neutral area.

> The upside is, when I take the leash off it's hook and don't
> take the pinch collar, her excitement to go for a walk is NO
> LONGER combined with the intense fear I used to see in
> her eyes at the sight of the pinch!

Our group likes to think that is EXCITEMENT and
eagerness to work. It is sheer terror. The pinch collar
works by overriding the opposition reflex through fear
and that cause tremendous stress and anxiety that
must be released through anxiety relief mechanisms
like barking, digging, whining, chewing, self mutilation
and aggression.

> That does it for me. I can't believe I instilled fear in my
> beautiful dog just for the sake that I didn't know how
> to train. Well, I still don't know how, but I'm learning!

That's where I was three dozen years ago. I was
ready to just quit. I wasn't going to sour any more
dogs to make them work.

> Thanks for your help. Please send more suggestions
> if you saw something I could be doing differently!
> Jenn & Anya

I was thinking about your difficulties with your dog.
Just getting the Hot And Cold Exercise and the Family
Leadership Exercise and the come command installed
will solve most of your difficulty with him.

I presume you've got msn messenger. We can speak
over that if you are set up for it, and I can demonstrate
the timing and tone and tempo for using sound distractions
and praise, or we could speak on the phone.

The most important thing to remember is to pick up and
handle the lead in a relaxed manner, no white knuckles,
keep your elbow relaxed and your arm down at your side
with the length of the lead breaking just below the knee.

Let me know if you need further help. Jerry.

From: BNTDOBESaol.com
To: jho...@bellsouth.net
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: THANKS ALISON! - "Owners Should Always
Be Given The Cold, Hard Facts: They Should NEVER FEEL
GUILTY For Having An Aggressive Dog Euthanized."

Dear Jerry,

It's Kay here. I don't know who these people are that
maligning you and your training manual but tell them
from me that it does work.

Hunter is just doing so well even the people who advocated
putting him down are impressed with him.

I even started using it with the neighbor's dog. I went over
there to help her cut his nails. She started yelling at him
for growling at me. I told her to tell him what a good boy he
is instead. Lo and behold he stopped growling and I could
do his nails. All 4 feet.

My dog Hunter was trained with the old jerk and pull method
and my other dog was trained with treats. Hunter has gotten
his enthusiasm back for his training and I couldn't be more
pleased.

He even tried to kiss a child the other day.

Major break through.

This is the dog that a few months ago tried to eat the kids
through the fence. I can now take him in the car with me
again without him trying to chase cars through the windshield.

So Jerry tell these people that the first rule of dog training
is Do No Harm.

The 2nd rule is whatever works without breaking the first rule.

Aggressive dogs don't need to be put down. Hunter was diagnosed
aggressive and he is going to stay alive and by my side where
he belongs.

Thank you so much.
Kay

===================

Punishment Deranges Behavior.
"NO!" Does NOT Have Any Behavioral Function
EXCEPT
To DERANGE Behaviors.

Here's professor dermer pryor:

From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST

And how do we know this aspect of his
advice is right?

Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.

(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
ill-mannered, or just plain ill.­),

--Marshall

"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.

BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!

That's INSANE. Ain't it.

Here's professor dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:

"We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People Should
Come To Their Senses And Support Your Valuable Work.
God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall Dermer,
Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI.

From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<*.@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM

Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,

I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.

You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent­,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts ­to
alert the world to animal abuse.

We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.

Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?

Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?

In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.

--Marshall Dermer

Subject: < BEFORE ---> "Jerry, You filthy, Unctuous,
No Good Charlatan,"


< AFTER ---> "Thank You Jerry For Putting Up With
A Constant Barrage Of Really Infantile
Crap At The Hands Of Supposedly Adult
Dog Lovers.

'Naive' Is Believing You Can Terrorize
A Dog Into Good Behavior," Robert Crim.

>Subject: Re: Fritz---a retrospective
>Date: 02/05/1999
>Author: Robert Crim <fritzg...@earthlink.net>
> You filthy, unctuous, no good charlatan. If you had
> any idea of what dogs and dog people were about
> you would realize the depths of the absolute loathing
> and contempt I hold for you right now. Were it not
> for the blessed distance and anonymity that the internet
> gives us from the scummy likes of you, I would probably
> be in a jail cell right now for turning you into the pile
> of shit you really are

Hey, Howe, you really are a wacko, eh?

Crim wrote this about *YOU,* you insipid piece of cow dung!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman

=====================


> On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:24:15 -0700, dogsnus

<"Terri"@cyberhighway> Wrote:>

> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> come forward and actually believe in his training manual.

Robert Crim writes:

I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope,
understood enough of the manual and it's counterparts by
John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
and use it.

This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.

The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.

To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.

Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use their real
names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.

"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.

Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.

> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
> actually admit to buying and having success with his
> little black box.

I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.

> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
> to him! LOL!

I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.

>Terri

Yes it was, and that is sad.

Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)

===========

Crim wrote THAT about *YOU,* tommy, "you insipid piece of cow dung!"

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@mail.com>
Subject: Alleged Professors of Animal Behavior
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:50:51 -0400

Dear Jerry, I paged through some of the "dog business"
and was astonished at the low quality of opinions arising
from professors of behavior analysis.

I had the very great privilege of meeting Sam Corson
(Pavlov's last Ph.D. student) and his dogs at Ohio
University. I even got to spend a night at Sam's house.

There is no question but that you are a spiritual brother
to Corson and to Pavlov, both of whom knew that the dog's
great capacity for love was the key to shaping doggie behavior.

Paradoxical reward and paradoxical fixing of attention are
both well documented Pavlovian techniques. Even so humorless
a chap as B.F. Skinner taught students like the Breland's whose
"The Misbehavior of Organisms" demonstrate the utility of your
methods and their deep roots in scientific (as opposed to
commercial) psychology.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
you may find my resume in Who's Who in
Science and Technology

From: "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net>
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 17:26:31 GMT

Subject: Dr. George VonHilshimer Writes: "No Loving, No Learning."

HOWEDY People,

Perhaps the PROBLEM is "TOO MANY WORDS?"

From: "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net>
To: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 4:40 AM
Subject: Fw: Counter Cruising must stop

> From: "diannes" <dian...@bolt.sonic.net>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 12:18 PM
> Subject: Re: Counter Cruising must stop
> > LeeCharlesKelley <kelleymet...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > I wrote:
> > > > LeeCharlesKelley <kelleymet...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > > On another note: I understand why someone
> > > > > proclaiming a method that works on all dogs,
> > > > > all the time, would send up "red flag" to you
> > > > > and others, but the fact remains, if a technique
> > > > > *doesn't* work 100% of the time, with all dogs,
> > > > > then there must be a flaw in the philosophy
> > > > > underlying that technique.
>
> > > > Ditto for dog training. No failure nor flaw of method
> > > > is involved - that's just acceptance of reality.
>
> > > First of all, I didn't say that there was a flaw in the
> > > method, though anyone is welcome to make that
> > > leap.
>
> > > I said there was a flaw in the underlying philosophy
> > > and its model of learning.
>
> > Correction accepted. I think that perhaps we are using
> > terminology differently here. Here is my use of the terms:

Jerry, I don't know where you find these folk who can't read.

> In order to use negative reinforcement, one must
> typically administer the aversive stimulus in order
> to be able to terminate it.

This is not negative reinforcement. Negative means no.

Positive reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
reward emitted immediately by trainer;

Negative reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
no response by trainer;

Aversive reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
aversive stimuli emitted immediately by trainer;

The term "reinforcement is used only tentatively with
"aversion" because aversive stimuli (aka punishment)
typically derange learning and are not followed by clean
learning curves equivalent to those which follow reward
or positive reinforcement;

Escape conditioning = dog has an aversive stimulus
applied without any dog related reason and when
behavior is emitted aversive stim is immediately turned off .

There is some indication that Escape Conditioning
works in a manner closely approximating reward;
but, ear pinch? -- too aversive.

I remind you that you should beat them over the head
with "The Misbehavior of Organisms" by Breland and
Breland, published in B.F. Skinner's CUMULATIVE
RECORD. Ignored by most profs of psychology, but
the distillation of his work.

NO PUNISHMENT.

Must pay attention to who is the animal?

His evolution, his development, and his personal history -
cannot train without respect for who is the dog? So says
the BIG TIME operant conditioning guru - and you can also
refer back to MARY COVER JONES (mother of scientific
systematic psychology), no loving, no learning.

I suppose I could wire up a dog so that his brain was
badly interrupted and the loving method of puppy training
might not work well - but it would still work better than
the methods used by dominatrix and their ilk.

Lovingly applied ethological techniques like the one
espoused by the Wizard of ALL puppies work for all
dogs, for that matter for all mammals higher than cat.

Indeed, they will work for cats if trainer is warmly competent.

You can see this in Key West on any sunny day.
Housecats performing quite happily.

Fondly, Dr. Von

From: TooCool (larrym...@hotmail.com)
The Puppy Wizard's Wits End Training Method

I have studied canine behavior and dog training for
years. I have a huge library that covers every system
of training.

The Puppy Wizard's (Jerry Howe's) Wits' End Training
Method is by far the most scientific, the most advanced,
the kindest, the quickest and the most effective training
method yet discovered.

It is not an assortment of training tips and tricks; it is
a logically consistent system. Every behavior problem
and every obedience skill is treated in the same logically
consistent manner.

Please study his manual carefully. Please endeavor to
understand the basis of his system and please follow
his directions exactly. His manual is a masterpiece.
It is dense with theory, with explanation, with detailed
descriptions about why behavior problems occur and
how their solution should be approached.

One should not pick and choose from among his methods
based upon what you personally like or dislike. His is
not a bag of tricks but a complete and integrated system
for not only training a dog but for raising a loving companion.

When I once said to Jerry that his system creates for
you the dog of your dreams, his response was that it
produces for your dog the owner of his dreams.

You see, Jerry has discovered that if you are gentle
with your dog then he will be gentle with you, if you
praise your dog every time he looks at you, then you
will become the center of your dogs world, if you use
Jerry's sound distraction with praise, then it takes
just minutes-sometimes merely seconds-to train your
dog to not misbehave (even in your absence) (Just 15
seconds this morning to train my 10 week old puppy to
lie quietly and let me clip his nails).

Using Jerry's scientific method (sound distraction /
praise / alteration / variation) it takes just minutes to
train you dog to respond to your commands.

What a pleasure it was for me to see my 6 week old
puppy running as fast has his wobbly little legs would
carry him in response to my recall command-and he
comes running every time I call no matter where we are
or what he is doing.

At ten weeks old now, my puppy never strains upon
his leash thanks to Jerry's hot & cold exercises and
his Family Pack Leadership exercises.

Jerry has discovered that if you scold your dog, if you
scream at him, if you intimidate him, if you hurt him,
if you force him then his natural response is to oppose
you.

Is Jerry a nut?

It doesn't make any difference to me whether he is or not.
It is a logical fallacy to judge a person's ideas based
upon their personality. As far as dogs are concerned, Jerry
wears his heart upon his sleeve. It touches him deeply when
he hears of trainers forcing, intimidating, scolding or
hurting dogs.

More than that, he knows that force is not effective
and that it will certainly lead to behavior problems;
sometime problems so severe that people put their
dogs down because of those problems.

I believe that it is natural for humans to want to control
their dog by force. Jerry knows this too. We have all been
at our wits' end, haven't we?

Dogs have a natural tendency to mimic. In scientific
literature it is referred to allelomimetic behavior. Dogs
respond in like kind to force; they respond in like kind
to praise.

Don't bribe your dog with treats; give him what he
wants most-your kind attention. Give him your praise.
You will be astonished at how your dog 's anxiety will
dissipate and how their behavior problems will dissipate
along with their anxiety.

Treat Jerry Howe's (The Puppy Wizard) Wits' End
Training Method as a scientific principle just as you
would the law of gravity and you will have astounding
success.

Dog behavior is just as scientific as is gravity.

If you follow Jerry's puppy rules you will get a sweet
little Magwai; if you don't you will surely get a little
gremlin (anyone see The Gremlins?). --Larry

From: Mike (m.bidd...@ns.sympatico.ca)
Subject: Re: Info. on the puppy wizard?
Date: 2004-07-18 14:27:02 PST

> > Oh, and did I mention his methods work, ya nuff said.
> > Mike
>
> Ok Mike which part worked for you?

It helped clear problems from my dogs in the
field using the can penny distraction technique.

Works like a charm.

My dogs get distracted easy from their jobs ie,
retrieving or training to find lost people, oh did
I mention that I am a Search and Rescue Team
Leader.

Sorry that slipped my mind.

I have read volumes of training books and don't
know where people get that Jerry copied others
work as I have NEVER come across his methods
before. I would like to see proof.

Just like Jerry outlined I eliminated problems one
at at time as they arose. I used to try and train to
the way I wanted them but this is backward, you
train out the problems leaving what you want left over.

Funny part is the second dog who had the same
problems as the other didn't need correcting for
some of his habits after I cleared it from the first
dog.

Seemed he learned through osmosis.

Nice side benefit there.

It nearly came to giving them up to a 3rd party
trainer as they were not performing well. The
VAST majority of working dog trainers are
agressive in their actions with the dogs.

I tried it and it didn't work and guess what I
was at my "Whits End" then someone I new
turned me onto Jerry and the rest is history.

I referred friends and families to Jerry's manual
and all have had great results. Starting puppies
out on the distraction technique is especially
good because they never develop the habit.

I had my sisters dog healing, sitting and down
stay reliably at 8-9 weeks. The first night home
following Jerrys advice we ditched the crate and
put the pup on the floor beside the bed and after
2 whimpers NOT A SOUND OUT OF THAT DOG
FOR 6 HRS! first night, that has never happened
in all my days.

Sorry, the man understands dogs its that simple.

Mike


"*.@DCFWatch.com" wrote:

No, the dog learned that I would hold still
the second she began to pull. She would pull
to go where *she* wanted.

Well if she wanted to stop and go in another
direction.. say to sniff my neighbors yard..

she learned if she wanted to do it I would stop
walking and she could go.. and if there wasn't
enough slack on her lead she would just pull me.

Then when she got done doing *her* thing, she woudl
heel.. smile at me and wait for me to say "let's go"
and finish *my* thing. I would refuse to move .. i
looked like an idiot.. freezing mid walk for minutes
waiting for *my* dog to heel and give *me* permission
to go again.

I did the treats and the let's go... she got to do her
stuff and get a cookie.. if she even wanted the cookie.

I wound up calling Jerry.. as I have a half red nose
pit and half amstaff.. who is incredibly protective..

we had a new pup on the way.. and i needed help.. i
followed petsmarts trainnign guides.. memorized them...
and they *did* work, don't get me wrong.. but only
when my pet wanted a cookie or felt the cookie was
better than what she wanted.. which was not often.

She quickly learned to ignore my commands if she
could see my hands were empty. So I called Jerry...
he chatted me for about an hour and a half.. gave me
his link... and even when i had probs intro'ing the
pup he called me withn i5 mins of my email for help
at 10pm on a sunday night.

One.. singular.. uno family pack exercise after
the hot and cold exercise and i could zig zag
down my street.. about face .. whatever.. and
never had tension.

two men were acrossed the street and she walked right
by them... ordinarily she'd snarl and protect us.

And in two days.. my dog.. who bit the puppy if he
even looked like he was going near my husband or kids..
is nursing him every hour.. cleaning him.. rough housing
gently.. and teaching him to go potty outside..

actually watches him to make sure he doesn't go in
the house... and has milk.. which is awesome since
she's 19 months old and has never had a litter.

She also has stopped barking non stop at our neighbor's
dogs and pig.. does not bark at eveyr car that drives by
and has stopped jumping on people. she's even starting
to ignore our cat who has lived on her dome litter box
and our window sill (literally) for over a year and a half.

She also does her commands on cue.. and doesn't look for a treat.

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
Subject: The Amazing Jerry's take on psychobabble
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:13:44 -0400

You might improve the learning of folk who actually
live with and train dogs to do useful things if you
excluded everyone who uses psychobabble from your lists.

I recommend to all of you who wish to taste the flavor
of sensible animal behaviorists to read THE MISBEHAVIOR
OF ORGANISMS, Breland and Breland.

This married pair of psychologists began the long trail
of highly trained animals who are symbolized by Shamu
eating a mackrel from a girl's hand instead of eating
the much more tasty pretty girl who is exactly the size
of the natural food of killer whales, seals. Yum!

The essay, by the way, is a chapter in B.F. Skinner's
summing up book, CUMULATIVE RECORD. They include a
sentence which more or less says, "unless you understand
the personal history of the particular animal, and the
history of this animal's species and group, the developmental
history of the animal, you cannot effectively train the animal.

Pigs root and hen's scratch, if you try to train hens without
scratching or pigs without scratching or pigeons without pecking,
you aren't going to have much success.

A conditional reflex is one which is learned, the original
primitive reflex occurs no matter what the history of the
animal, and is hard wired. If you train the animal to respond,
say by ringing a bell immediately before turning on a bright
light, then you've taught the animal and made his native reflex
of pupil constriction conditional upon the ringing of a bell.

Thorndyke added some terminology to this kind of training
and insisted that when you train the animal to make gross
motor responses that this learning is "instrumental", the
animal takes action and uses an instrument.

The Russian word translated as "conditional" in all other
contexts was mistranslated by Pavlov's American translator,
Horsley Gannt, as "conditioned" and so American psychology
went haring after phantasmagora.

The major theorists for the development of the language of
operant conditioning are Edward Thorndike, John Watson, and
B. F. Skinner. Their approach to behaviorism played a major
role in the development of American psychology.

They proposed that learning is the result of the application
of consequences; that is, learners begin to connect certain
responses with certain stimuli. This connection causes the
probability of the response to change (i.e., learning occurs.)

Thorndike labeled this type of learning instrumental. Using
consequences, he taught kittens to manipulate a latch (e.g.,
an instrument). Skinner renamed instrumental as "operant"
because in this learning, one is "operating" on, and is
influenced by, the environment. Where classical conditioning
illustrates S-->R learning, operant conditioning is often
viewed as R-->S learning since it is the consequence that
follows the response that influences whether the response
is likely or unlikely to occur again.

It is through operant conditioning that
voluntary responses are learned.

One should note that Russian Psychology did very well
without the operant language, and only pettifogging
university professors ought to worry about what kind
of label we attach to the learning. Pfui!

Even Skinner understood this!

And please note if you saw the original movie, THE
MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE, you saw a Chinese psychologist
who was based on Andrew Salter, CONDITIONED REFLEX
THERAPY.

Alas, Salter didn't have a Ph.D., but he basically rescued
us from the long Freudian nightmare and returned psychotherapy
to a scientific basis. Alas, the 2nd movie didn't even cite
Salter as a source. "...all the highest nervous activity, as
it manifests itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a
continual change of these three fundamental processes --
excitation, inhibition and disinhibition." Ivan P. Pavlov

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

What's important is, "does Shamu reliably eat
the fish and not the pretty girl?"

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com
To: <d...@arcane-computing.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:38 PM
Subject: Doggy advice

Scott, Jerry Howe forwarded me the letter below.
I'm glad that you referred negatively to Jerry's
habit of CAPITALIZING and HOWEING everything.

I personally hate this habit of his. I think it is his
way of diluting his authority - IME he is a very modest
fellow. However, contrary to your sneer, he is very
competent at living with dogs.

I thought I'd list a series of actions which I found
on the list, folk asking advice on what to do about
dogs doing this and that, for example:

whining,
humping, hunching,
pacing,
self mutilation - paw licking, side sucking,
spinning,
prolonged barking, barking at shadows,
overstimulated barking,
fighting, bullying other dogs,
compulsive digging,
compulsive scratching,
compulsive chewing,
frantic behavior,
chasing light, chasing shadow,
stealing food,
digging in garbage can,
loosing house (toilet) training.
inappropriate fearfulness
aggression.

The thing that is fascinating to me, as an ethologist who
graduated from college 50 years ago and has spent all of
the intervening time working with animals (including the
human animal), is that you never see any of these behaviors
in wild dingoes, jackals, coyotes or wolves, you don't even
see these behaviors in hyenas (who aren't dog related).

You see these behaviors in human managed animals, especially
animals who live with neurotic hysterical humans.

As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving
care.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine

"Linda" <llindaleedan...@msn.com wrote in message
news:

I have been trying for the last 18 months to help my
dog who became fear aggressive at 18 month of age.
I do not know what started the problem but he came
aggressive first with dogs and then began lunging and
snapping at people. Until this time he loved everyone
and could play with any dog. He was well socialized
ad I took him with me everywhere.

At 13 months he passed the Canine Good Citizens
Test except he could let me leave him. I had used
clicker training to teach him manners and tricks but
it was not working on his aggression problem.

I took him to vets who suggested a low protein diet,
trainers who charged $800 to only make him worse.
They tried to use a prong collar and he froze, urinated
and tried to climb on my head to help him. they then
suggested a shock collar I knew this approach was not
working as he was becoming more aggressive.

I took him to an animal behaviorist with Ph. D. 400 miles
away who told me to "KEEP HIM SAFE" and read a book
on the fearful canine. I tried another trainer who tried to
use a nylon chock collar but it only made him worse.

I read hundreds of books,"CULTURE CLASH", "DOG
ARE FROM NEPTUNE", "THE OTHER END OF THE
LEASH", ETC looking for help. We finally went to Purdue
University Small Animal Behavior Clinic and they said he
had fear aggression, punishment would not work, use the
gentle leader and when out walking and he got stressed
have the people stop until he could get in control using
treats, and work on clicker training.

At that point I knew more about clicker training and using
the gentle leader than they did! Nothing was working--he
would not come when I called him and would run away when
I tried to catch him. I was afraid to walk him even in the
neighborhood as we had become that "mean dog and women
who hasn't trained her dog"

I went to four trainers in both Michigan and Florida who
were trainer/specialists in aggression and the last two
were so afraid of him they could not approach him. No one
said I should give up on him and kill him but they would
say "You have to realize he is dangerous and you are
responsible for him."

*(You got LUCKY, Linda... They coulda got Sunshine
DEAD on us. Damned near did... too.)

As last resort I tried the internet again--I had had on
going discussions with trainers from Triple Crown and Dr
Meister with out any help-and I found the ad to Doggy Do
Right and messaged Jerry to ask if this might help my dog.
He said solving the aggression problem was EZ but I could
not believe him even when I downloaded the manual.

The name of the method was right I was at my Wits End.
I had been working for 18 months!

Using the can sound three time he came, and still comes
from anywhere with the command-"comegoodboy" Next
I tried the can when walking him--when he saw a dog three
blocks away he went off-lunging and snapping-I used the
can sound and he looked at me like uhn?

I used it three more times and we got to the other dog-
-the looked at me wagging his tail--the other person
looked at me like why are shaking that can but just walked
on by.

When ever I try to explain about the sound people look at
me like "you must be out of your mind"

The results can make a believer!!!

Three weeks since beginning the Wits End Training
Manual program I walked him without the gentle leader
in a busy shopping area with many dogs.

He just seemed to not notice any one.

When people talked to him or ask his name he would
look at then and wag his tail and let then pet him.

I still can not believe the change in him--we can now
enjoy life out in public.

If I had not found the Wits End method I know there
was no hope for him and he would have hurt someone
Through all this he never growled at me, guarded his
toys or food or showed any sign of aggression with me.

My goal is to get the message out to all dog lovers that
dogs can be trained fast, easily and problems solved with
out force, pain, food or anything but sound and praise!!!!

I know most people would have given up on him a long time
ago but he was and is my life. Solving the problem was EZ
but only with the right approach-sound and praise.

I know because I tried everything else and nothing worked!!!

================================

From: Linda Daniel
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:06 AM
Subject: Re: - Re: dog aggression

Thanks for writing--I would be happy to do almost anything
to get your approach out to dog owners as I know it would
save so many lives. I know at times I was so frustrated I
thought of giving up on Sunshine but of course I never would
have but many people would have. The world just does not
know you can train a dog in just a few sessions and actually
solve problems.

We will be here until late April and we really have no plans-
-just to enjoy the warmth and sun of Florida, so any time
you could meet us would be great. I drive so I would be
happy to come to you anytime anywhere!

We went to Celebration today and two little poodles got
right into his face and he just sat there--I GOT a little
scared but he handled it just fine.--a couple of times people
would ask his name and want to pet him and he just went
to them tail wagging and rolled over for them rub his tummy.

He really just is not concerned about people passing, even
those on rollerblades! I have always used a gentle leader
in public but he spent most of time rubbing his face on the
grass--today I used his collar and he was so much happier!!

Only problem is he will stop to smell and I can not get
stopped soon enough to keep the leash loose. He never
pulled ahead of me but when he gets into smelling I have
a hard time getting him going--at times I think he could
smell a blade of grass for 10 minutes.

I can never thank you enough for giving Sunshine back!!!!!

I wrote to Purdue and told them about him being able to
walk in a crowd with out the /gentle leader and not having
a problem with other people and dogs.

I told them their advice did not work. Their advice was
to use the gentle leader at all times and when he was
around people or dogs to have him sit and reward with
treats--one really good suggestions was to have people
coming toward us stop when he got stressed or aroused
and not move until we backed away-

- can you just see me yelling at people to stop on the street
until I get his attention with treats.

They also suggested the possibility of using drugs-prozac-
but thought he was too dangerous as the drug would make
him less fearful and then he might attack or become more
sure of himself and become dominate aggressive. Just had
to share their great advice with you but I am sure you have
heard it all--even I am becoming an expert on bad advice.

----------------------------------


("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
(((' (((-((('' ((((


|\ _.-'~~""'~`'~)
/, ~-,__,,,.'~ ,-;;--''
|,4) ./ ' ; ;/'
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(,_..----''' (,..--''


Meow


/),,/)
( ' ; ')
(,,)-(,,)


/),,/)
(' ; ') kiss me
(,,)-(,,)


/),,/)
( ; ' ) kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)


/),,/)
( ; ) kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)


/)
( * ) and KISS ME HERE!
(,,)-(,,)
The Amazing Pussy Wizard <{@); ~ } >


<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>

http://www.irishdogs.ie/Information/Wits_End_Dog_Training.pdf

Please DON'T BE The Amazing Pussy Wizard's PREY.

IT AIN'T PRETTY.

<(@}; ~ } >


I*@i-love-dogs.com
2006-01-29 01:17:11 EST
Hello All,

Could someone please explain what's going on here?

Who says pinch collars do not pinch and why is anyone
defending using such barbaric devices on a living being?

And what wizard? Have you been reading too much Harry Potter?

Thank you. Rene.

It's Only Alimentary, Dear Watson wrote:
> Subject: Re: block the "wizard"
>
> HOWEDY bill,
>
> Bill Plast wrote:
>
> > block the "wizard"
> > http://www.newsbackup.com/about442131-0-asc-0.
> > html&sid=005d713967ac4bafc38e587c47ae96eb
>
> > Just go to this site and follow the instructions.
>
> Thank you, bill!
>
> > You'll never see his crap again.
>
> UNLESS someWON QUOTES HIM quoting YOU
> HURTING dogs and LYIN abHOWET it, billy.
>
> > He goes by a few other names so you'll
> > have to delete them too!
>
> OtherWIZE you'll be EMBARRASSED TO DEATH, billy.
>
> > Good Luck!
>
> Dog trainin AIN'T LUCK, billy. You HURT
> and INTIMDIATE dogs and LIE abHOWET it.
>
> > JCK
>
> Here's your ADVICE:
>
> Subject: crates and "pinch" collars
>
> Crating is a great method of home-training
> and pinch collars DO NOT PINCH......
>
> When pinch collars are adjusted properly, all
> they do is provide discomfort (tightness) in
> the neck area.
>
> I've worn it myself and there was never ever
> ANY pain, even when it was pulled tightly.
>
> Dogs are pack animals and also enjoy solitude.
>
> It's amazing to see my 3YO Boxer spend much time
> in his crate with the door open (free to come
> and go). He'd rather sleep in his crate than on
> the couch or a nice comfortable rug.
>
> Privacy is a must for dogs, just like
> it it is for us "Human Folk".
>
> Please do not be afraid to crate-train your dog.
>
> It is a wonderful method and your dog will
> love you for it in the end.
>
> Bill Plast
>
> --------------
>
> Your dog HIDES in his crate and PREFERS NOT
> to be on the couch with you on accHOWENT of
> YOU ABUSE HIM, billy. Dogs FEEL SAFE in their
> crates like a child hiding under the blanket
> from the BOOGEYMAN.
>
> That INCREASES their PHOBIAS and CAUSES obsessive
> compulsive disorders and STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE
> DIS-EASES aka The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME <{); ~ ) >
>
> From: "Bill Plast" <A...@houston.rr.com>
> Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 21:53:14 GMT
>
> Subject: Re: What would be a suitable dog??
>
> I'm not too sure about a Chow-Chow. They can really
> have an unsure temper if not raised properly. Do you
> have time to raise it? It seems you are gone a lot
> of the time. If you get a rescued one, make sure it
> is good with children.
>
> -----------
>
> A DOG IS A DOG, billy. Dogs DO NOT have "UNSURE
> TEMPERAMENTS" if you DON'T HURT CRATE and INTIMDIATE
> them, billy.
>
> Subject: no bite rule
>
> Group,
>
> Dogs are such creatures of habit. They learn
> by repetiveness...Like Pavlov's dog with the bell
> and the salivation experiment.
>
> Continous "no bite" in a firm tone and forward voice
> with the removal of the hand will eventually work.
>
> The "tone" of the voice makes the animal think twice
> and stop, just as if a person yells loudly at one of
> us to get our attention..
>
> You can use any command...like......"big top", or
> ""kung fu". The dog hears this command and departs
> from the situation if done repeatedly and correctly.
>
> As far as habit and hearing goes, if your dog was named
> Spike..and you called "Mike"...he or she would come.
>
> They learn from repitition and repetition goes a
> long way with our canine friends!
>
> ------------
>
> It takes MINUTES to install ANY command or
> EXXXTINGUISH ANY behavior using effective
> non physical conditioning, billy. You HURT
> and INTIMDIATE dogs and THAT'S HOWE COME
> you can't TRAIN them not to bite NEARLY
> INSTANTLY, billy <{); ~ ) >
>
> "Ned" <komod...@rogers.com wrote in message
>
> Hi ! Our black lab girl is 3 months old
> (she will be 4 months on the 30th).
>
> When we first brought her home she had a bad habit
> of trying to nip our faces (including my 3 year old
> twins) during playtime.
>
> It drove everyone in the house nuts and it brought
> my little girls to tears as you can imagine.
>
> We tried saying no, and that would just get her
> even more excited, so we would yell no and that
> would just get her "scared" but still excited.
>
> In short it just wasn't working.
>
> So we finally did what Jerry has suggested to you.
>
> We used a sound do distract her and we would
> immediately praise her. I have to say that it
> worked great.
>
> BUT she then moved on to nipping at the feet
>
> LOL silly little thing.
>
> So again, we tried no, and then louder no, but
> again it didn't work so we went for the distraction
> and praise. I must say that she is doing great!
>
> I hope that helps.
>
> Edyta aka Ned
>
> ===================
>
> From: Becky (Becky...@new.rr.com) Subject:
> Re: Crate Anxiety Date: 2002-04-04 12:56:23 PST
>
> Try Jerry Howe's training manual and check out
> his Doggy Do Right (And Kitty Will And A Rooster
> Did And A Cockatoo Or Two Did Too) machine....
> it is for this.
>
> Please do not listen to the others in here that don't
> like him or his methods, they have never tried them....
> I have and it works!!!!
>
> I broke my dog from nipping almost 100% in 1 day and
> she usually does this SEVERAL times a day and actually
> makes my kids bleed!
>
> Try it or contact him! The manual is at the above
> website also, and it is free!
>
> Becky
>
> ===========
>
> "Jerome Bigge" <jbi...@novagate.net wrote in message news:
>
> I've read over Jerry Howe's "Wit's End Dog Training
> Manual" now several times. And while everyone will
> get something a bit different from it, I found that
> his "hot & cold" exercise (first part of manual) is
> in my opinion the "key" to the entire thing.
>
> Once you have taught your dog (puppy) to keep an
> "eye on you", then the rest of its training (come,
> etc) becomes much easier.
>
> Additionally Jerry does pointout "why" dogs do the
> things that they do.
>
> So even if you don't like Jerry's posts, you might
> like to download his manual (it's free, after all!)
> and give it a look over.
>
> You might learn something.
>
> My Boston Terrier puppy would chew up the newspaper
> until I used the techniques in Jerry Howe's manual
> to train her not to do it.
>
> Simple distraction and praise. You may not agree with
> all he says, but the manual is well worth reading even
> if you don't use all of it.
>
> Jerome Bigge NRA Life Member
> Supporter of National Health Insurance
> CompTIA A Certified Computer Technician
> Author of the "Warlady" & "Wartime" series.
> Download at "http://members.tripod.com/~jbigge"
>
> =================
>
> rom: "N < To: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net
> Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 8:46 PM Subject:
> Re: Shadow
>
> Hey, Thanks so much for this morning, your patience
> is otherworldly ! That was such a hectic time, I
> forgot that T was off to work this morning and he
> usually calls on me to help get him out the door,
> than M woke up, and well, you got a feel for it !
>
> Which is probably good actually, I bet there was
> a lot of insight gained. (It's usually much calmer
> around here) Now back to Shadow.
>
> WOW !
>
> Not a "new dog" yet. But really so much calmer !
>
> I took on the big challenge of "THE BROOM" now
> that's a real attention getter for her. But IT
> WORKED ! She settled down near by and let me sweep !
>
> She had a couple bouts of grabbing my pants with her
> teeth, and a few times she wanted to gnaw on me, but
> she settled down and gave up pretty quickly.
>
> AND it's 5:45 here, her time to totally lose it, and
> she's out back with T and M playing calmly near M,
> coming in to check on me periodically, and only peed
> in my office once today.
>
> So, do you have old smashed soda cans all over your
> house (we keep one or more in each room) or did you
> fashion a classier version ? Hey, thanks again, I'll
> let you know HOWE it's going.
>
> Hugs, and big sloppy wet doggy kisses, N & Co.
>
> "If I Knew It Would Be That Easy, I Would Have Done
> This A Long Time Ago Saving Myself 5 Years Of Dealing
> With A Bouncy, Over Excited Dog!, Jenn.
>
> Hello Jenn,
>
> "brijen" <bri...@vennercnospams.com> wrote in message
> news:397cfaa3_1@news.oanet.com...
>
> > Hello Jerry,
> > I just wanted to let you know that I
> > am trying this right now.
>
> Good.
>
> > I am the woman who wrote to you a while ago about
> > trying to walk my dog without the pinch collar.
>
> I recall.
>
> > She also goes APE when I grab the leash. We have been
> > doing this technique you recommend for about a half an
> > hour now and the results are already fantastic, as well
> > as amusing!
>
> Yeah, dog training should always be more fun than work.
>
> > At first, we went out and I stood there, and Anya kept
> > trying to head out to the sidewalk. When I didn't follow,
> > she came and sat beside me at heel! (Thanks to
> > your help!) She'd NEVER done that before.
>
> It's the same principle as in the Hot And Cold Exercise.
>
> > I rewarded that with a few steps of a walk, but we came in
> > after about 30 seconds. She stopped and looked at me as
> > if she were thinking, "What? But we just got out here!" The
> > second and third times, she was even MORE eager when
> > she saw the leash, and I got the same look when I turned
> > around to go back in. The fourth time, she just bounced a
> > bit as she walked to the door with me, and sat nicely to
> > wait until I hooked up the leash, and this last time, I HAD
> > TO CALL HER TO ME!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Fine. That's because dogs learn on the basis of
> four repetitions. That's not to say they can't learn
> some things faster, but for breaking habits, it usually
> happens the fourth time we repeat a lesson.
>
> Then we need to repeat the lesson at three more
> locations our time in each to generalize the idea.
> Let's say your dog gets excited when you take her
> lead and go to the front door. She would probably
> do the same at the back door, but to not such a degree.
>
> Likewise for any other door.
>
> It would behoove you to repeat the exercise with
> several other doors and it would be easiest to
> start with a door that had less excitement involved
> with it.
>
> > If I knew it would be that easy, I would have done
> > this a long time ago saving myself 5 years of dealing
> > with a bouncy, over excited dog!
>
> The non force methods work fast and easy because
> we are not challenging the dog or calling our attention
> to their behavior problems.
>
> > I have to tell you how the walk is going though. I have a
> > lot of problems there, but it is all ME. I have been so
> > conditioned to "correct" her, that I still find myself
> > yanking on her collar.
>
> Yes, those habits are hard to break. It's easier for
> me to train a person who has no experience at all
> because they have no bad habits of pulling and
> forcing control.
>
> > I feel so awful! We have only been working in the yard
> > without distractions, because I honestly don't know what
> > will happen if she sees another dog and I won't have the
> > pinch collar to keep her from dragging me over for a fight.
>
> You know that working the dog in the back yard is not
> preferable, because that causes them some anxiety
> because it's their free area. But with your dog and with
> the difficulty he is to handle, I don't see any reason you
> shouldn't do the Family Leadership Exercise and the
> come command several times out there, and then you'll
> have the control to do it in a more neutral area.
>
> > The upside is, when I take the leash off it's hook and don't
> > take the pinch collar, her excitement to go for a walk is NO
> > LONGER combined with the intense fear I used to see in
> > her eyes at the sight of the pinch!
>
> Our group likes to think that is EXCITEMENT and
> eagerness to work. It is sheer terror. The pinch collar
> works by overriding the opposition reflex through fear
> and that cause tremendous stress and anxiety that
> must be released through anxiety relief mechanisms
> like barking, digging, whining, chewing, self mutilation
> and aggression.
>
> > That does it for me. I can't believe I instilled fear in my
> > beautiful dog just for the sake that I didn't know how
> > to train. Well, I still don't know how, but I'm learning!
>
> That's where I was three dozen years ago. I was
> ready to just quit. I wasn't going to sour any more
> dogs to make them work.
>
> > Thanks for your help. Please send more suggestions
> > if you saw something I could be doing differently!
> > Jenn & Anya
>
> I was thinking about your difficulties with your dog.
> Just getting the Hot And Cold Exercise and the Family
> Leadership Exercise and the come command installed
> will solve most of your difficulty with him.
>
> I presume you've got msn messenger. We can speak
> over that if you are set up for it, and I can demonstrate
> the timing and tone and tempo for using sound distractions
> and praise, or we could speak on the phone.
>
> The most important thing to remember is to pick up and
> handle the lead in a relaxed manner, no white knuckles,
> keep your elbow relaxed and your arm down at your side
> with the length of the lead breaking just below the knee.
>
> Let me know if you need further help. Jerry.
>
> From: BNTDOBESaol.com
> To: jho...@bellsouth.net
> Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 10:26 PM
> Subject: Re: THANKS ALISON! - "Owners Should Always
> Be Given The Cold, Hard Facts: They Should NEVER FEEL
> GUILTY For Having An Aggressive Dog Euthanized."
>
> Dear Jerry,
>
> It's Kay here. I don't know who these people are that
> maligning you and your training manual but tell them
> from me that it does work.
>
> Hunter is just doing so well even the people who advocated
> putting him down are impressed with him.
>
> I even started using it with the neighbor's dog. I went over
> there to help her cut his nails. She started yelling at him
> for growling at me. I told her to tell him what a good boy he
> is instead. Lo and behold he stopped growling and I could
> do his nails. All 4 feet.
>
> My dog Hunter was trained with the old jerk and pull method
> and my other dog was trained with treats. Hunter has gotten
> his enthusiasm back for his training and I couldn't be more
> pleased.
>
> He even tried to kiss a child the other day.
>
> Major break through.
>
> This is the dog that a few months ago tried to eat the kids
> through the fence. I can now take him in the car with me
> again without him trying to chase cars through the windshield.
>
> So Jerry tell these people that the first rule of dog training
> is Do No Harm.
>
> The 2nd rule is whatever works without breaking the first rule.
>
> Aggressive dogs don't need to be put down. Hunter was diagnosed
> aggressive and he is going to stay alive and by my side where
> he belongs.
>
> Thank you so much.
> Kay
>
> ===================
>
> Punishment Deranges Behavior.
> "NO!" Does NOT Have Any Behavioral Function
> EXCEPT
> To DERANGE Behaviors.
>
> Here's professor dermer pryor:
>
> From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
> Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
> Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST
>
> And how do we know this aspect of his
> advice is right?
>
> Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
> His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.
>
> (Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
> few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
> ill-mannered, or just plain ill.­),
>
> --Marshall
>
> "At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
> But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
> shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
> then you will have achieved too things.
>
> First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
> and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.
>
> How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
> minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
> biting.
>
> **********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************
>
> When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
> forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
> closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
> before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).
>
> "No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
> to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
> dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
> UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.
>
> BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!
>
> That's INSANE. Ain't it.
>
> Here's professor dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:
>
> "We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People Should
> Come To Their Senses And Support Your Valuable Work.
> God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall Dermer,
> Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI.
>
> From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
> To: "The Puppy Wizard"
> <ThePuppyWiz...@earthlink.net>
> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM
>
> Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
> Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,
>
> I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
> and now must applaud your attempts to save
> animals from painful training procedures.
>
> You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent­,
> who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts ­to
> alert the world to animal abuse.
>
> We are lucky to have you, and more people should
> come to their senses and support your valuable
> work.
>
> Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
> charity to fund your important work?
>
> Have you thought about holding a press conference
> so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
> and significant work?
>
> In closing, my only suggestion is that you
> try to keep your messages short for most
> readers may refuse to read a long message
> even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
> I wish you well in your endeavors.
>
> --Marshall Dermer
>
> Subject: < BEFORE ---> "Jerry, You filthy, Unctuous,
> No Good Charlatan,"
>
>
> < AFTER ---> "Thank You Jerry For Putting Up With
> A Constant Barrage Of Really Infantile
> Crap At The Hands Of Supposedly Adult
> Dog Lovers.
>
> 'Naive' Is Believing You Can Terrorize
> A Dog Into Good Behavior," Robert Crim.
>
> >Subject: Re: Fritz---a retrospective
> >Date: 02/05/1999
> >Author: Robert Crim <fritzg...@earthlink.net>
> > You filthy, unctuous, no good charlatan. If you had
> > any idea of what dogs and dog people were about
> > you would realize the depths of the absolute loathing
> > and contempt I hold for you right now. Were it not
> > for the blessed distance and anonymity that the internet
> > gives us from the scummy likes of you, I would probably
> > be in a jail cell right now for turning you into the pile
> > of shit you really are
>
> Hey, Howe, you really are a wacko, eh?
>
> Crim wrote this about *YOU,* you insipid piece of cow dung!
>
> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
> --
> Dogman
> mailto:dog...@i1.net
> http://www.i1.net/~dogman
>
> =====================
>
>
> > On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:24:15 -0700, dogsnus
>
> <"Terri"@cyberhighway> Wrote:>
>
> > Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> > He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> > watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> > Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> > come forward and actually believe in his training manual.
>
> Robert Crim writes:
>
> I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
> since I freely admit to having read and, I hope,
> understood enough of the manual and it's counterparts by
> John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
> and use it.
>
> This naive child would like to say thank you to both
> Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
> of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
> adult dog lovers.
>
> The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
> nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
> earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
> of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
> given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
> gasped his last gasp.
>
> To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.
>
> Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
> names are more honest than people that use their real
> names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
> and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
> are the equal or better than those that have studied and
> lived by their craft for decades.
>
> "Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
> level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
> that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
> going to just go away because you people act like fools.
>
> Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
> don't really care.
>
> > And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
> > actually admit to buying and having success with his
> > little black box.
>
> I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
> take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
> testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
> never know.
>
> > Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> > Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
> > to him! LOL!
>
> I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
> Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
> eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.
>
> >Terri
>
> Yes it was, and that is sad.
>
> Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
> listen to the box first?)
>
> ===========
>
> Crim wrote THAT about *YOU,* tommy, "you insipid piece of cow dung!"
>
> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
>
> From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
> To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@mail.com>
> Subject: Alleged Professors of Animal Behavior
> Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:50:51 -0400
>
> Dear Jerry, I paged through some of the "dog business"
> and was astonished at the low quality of opinions arising
> from professors of behavior analysis.
>
> I had the very great privilege of meeting Sam Corson
> (Pavlov's last Ph.D. student) and his dogs at Ohio
> University. I even got to spend a night at Sam's house.
>
> There is no question but that you are a spiritual brother
> to Corson and to Pavlov, both of whom knew that the dog's
> great capacity for love was the key to shaping doggie behavior.
>
> Paradoxical reward and paradoxical fixing of attention are
> both well documented Pavlovian techniques. Even so humorless
> a chap as B.F. Skinner taught students like the Breland's whose
> "The Misbehavior of Organisms" demonstrate the utility of your
> methods and their deep roots in scientific (as opposed to
> commercial) psychology.
>
> George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
> you may find my resume in Who's Who in
> Science and Technology
>
> From: "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net>
> Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 17:26:31 GMT
>
> Subject: Dr. George VonHilshimer Writes: "No Loving, No Learning."
>
> HOWEDY People,
>
> Perhaps the PROBLEM is "TOO MANY WORDS?"
>
> From: "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net>
> To: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 4:40 AM
> Subject: Fw: Counter Cruising must stop
>
> > From: "diannes" <dian...@bolt.sonic.net>
> > Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
> > Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 12:18 PM
> > Subject: Re: Counter Cruising must stop
> > > LeeCharlesKelley <kelleymet...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > I wrote:
> > > > > LeeCharlesKelley <kelleymet...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On another note: I understand why someone
> > > > > > proclaiming a method that works on all dogs,
> > > > > > all the time, would send up "red flag" to you
> > > > > > and others, but the fact remains, if a technique
> > > > > > *doesn't* work 100% of the time, with all dogs,
> > > > > > then there must be a flaw in the philosophy
> > > > > > underlying that technique.
> >
> > > > > Ditto for dog training. No failure nor flaw of method
> > > > > is involved - that's just acceptance of reality.
> >
> > > > First of all, I didn't say that there was a flaw in the
> > > > method, though anyone is welcome to make that
> > > > leap.
> >
> > > > I said there was a flaw in the underlying philosophy
> > > > and its model of learning.
> >
> > > Correction accepted. I think that perhaps we are using
> > > terminology differently here. Here is my use of the terms:
>
> Jerry, I don't know where you find these folk who can't read.
>
> > In order to use negative reinforcement, one must
> > typically administer the aversive stimulus in order
> > to be able to terminate it.
>
> This is not negative reinforcement. Negative means no.
>
> Positive reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
> reward emitted immediately by trainer;
>
> Negative reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
> no response by trainer;
>
> Aversive reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
> aversive stimuli emitted immediately by trainer;
>
> The term "reinforcement is used only tentatively with
> "aversion" because aversive stimuli (aka punishment)
> typically derange learning and are not followed by clean
> learning curves equivalent to those which follow reward
> or positive reinforcement;
>
> Escape conditioning = dog has an aversive stimulus
> applied without any dog related reason and when
> behavior is emitted aversive stim is immediately turned off .
>
> There is some indication that Escape Conditioning
> works in a manner closely approximating reward;
> but, ear pinch? -- too aversive.
>
> I remind you that you should beat them over the head
> with "The Misbehavior of Organisms" by Breland and
> Breland, published in B.F. Skinner's CUMULATIVE
> RECORD. Ignored by most profs of psychology, but
> the distillation of his work.
>
> NO PUNISHMENT.
>
> Must pay attention to who is the animal?
>
> His evolution, his development, and his personal history -
> cannot train without respect for who is the dog? So says
> the BIG TIME operant conditioning guru - and you can also
> refer back to MARY COVER JONES (mother of scientific
> systematic psychology), no loving, no learning.
>
> I suppose I could wire up a dog so that his brain was
> badly interrupted and the loving method of puppy training
> might not work well - but it would still work better than
> the methods used by dominatrix and their ilk.
>
> Lovingly applied ethological techniques like the one
> espoused by the Wizard of ALL puppies work for all
> dogs, for that matter for all mammals higher than cat.
>
> Indeed, they will work for cats if trainer is warmly competent.
>
> You can see this in Key West on any sunny day.
> Housecats performing quite happily.
>
> Fondly, Dr. Von
>
> From: TooCool (larrym...@hotmail.com)
> The Puppy Wizard's Wits End Training Method
>
> I have studied canine behavior and dog training for
> years. I have a huge library that covers every system
> of training.
>
> The Puppy Wizard's (Jerry Howe's) Wits' End Training
> Method is by far the most scientific, the most advanced,
> the kindest, the quickest and the most effective training
> method yet discovered.
>
> It is not an assortment of training tips and tricks; it is
> a logically consistent system. Every behavior problem
> and every obedience skill is treated in the same logically
> consistent manner.
>
> Please study his manual carefully. Please endeavor to
> understand the basis of his system and please follow
> his directions exactly. His manual is a masterpiece.
> It is dense with theory, with explanation, with detailed
> descriptions about why behavior problems occur and
> how their solution should be approached.
>
> One should not pick and choose from among his methods
> based upon what you personally like or dislike. His is
> not a bag of tricks but a complete and integrated system
> for not only training a dog but for raising a loving companion.
>
> When I once said to Jerry that his system creates for
> you the dog of your dreams, his response was that it
> produces for your dog the owner of his dreams.
>
> You see, Jerry has discovered that if you are gentle
> with your dog then he will be gentle with you, if you
> praise your dog every time he looks at you, then you
> will become the center of your dogs world, if you use
> Jerry's sound distraction with praise, then it takes
> just minutes-sometimes merely seconds-to train your
> dog to not misbehave (even in your absence) (Just 15
> seconds this morning to train my 10 week old puppy to
> lie quietly and let me clip his nails).
>
> Using Jerry's scientific method (sound distraction /
> praise / alteration / variation) it takes just minutes to
> train you dog to respond to your commands.
>
> What a pleasure it was for me to see my 6 week old
> puppy running as fast has his wobbly little legs would
> carry him in response to my recall command-and he
> comes running every time I call no matter where we are
> or what he is doing.
>
> At ten weeks old now, my puppy never strains upon
> his leash thanks to Jerry's hot & cold exercises and
> his Family Pack Leadership exercises.
>
> Jerry has discovered that if you scold your dog, if you
> scream at him, if you intimidate him, if you hurt him,
> if you force him then his natural response is to oppose
> you.
>
> Is Jerry a nut?
>
> It doesn't make any difference to me whether he is or not.
> It is a logical fallacy to judge a person's ideas based
> upon their personality. As far as dogs are concerned, Jerry
> wears his heart upon his sleeve. It touches him deeply when
> he hears of trainers forcing, intimidating, scolding or
> hurting dogs.
>
> More than that, he knows that force is not effective
> and that it will certainly lead to behavior problems;
> sometime problems so severe that people put their
> dogs down because of those problems.
>
> I believe that it is natural for humans to want to control
> their dog by force. Jerry knows this too. We have all been
> at our wits' end, haven't we?
>
> Dogs have a natural tendency to mimic. In scientific
> literature it is referred to allelomimetic behavior. Dogs
> respond in like kind to force; they respond in like kind
> to praise.
>
> Don't bribe your dog with treats; give him what he
> wants most-your kind attention. Give him your praise.
> You will be astonished at how your dog 's anxiety will
> dissipate and how their behavior problems will dissipate
> along with their anxiety.
>
> Treat Jerry Howe's (The Puppy Wizard) Wits' End
> Training Method as a scientific principle just as you
> would the law of gravity and you will have astounding
> success.
>
> Dog behavior is just as scientific as is gravity.
>
> If you follow Jerry's puppy rules you will get a sweet
> little Magwai; if you don't you will surely get a little
> gremlin (anyone see The Gremlins?). --Larry
>
> From: Mike (m.bidd...@ns.sympatico.ca)
> Subject: Re: Info. on the puppy wizard?
> Date: 2004-07-18 14:27:02 PST
>
> > > Oh, and did I mention his methods work, ya nuff said.
> > > Mike
> >
> > Ok Mike which part worked for you?
>
> It helped clear problems from my dogs in the
> field using the can penny distraction technique.
>
> Works like a charm.
>
> My dogs get distracted easy from their jobs ie,
> retrieving or training to find lost people, oh did
> I mention that I am a Search and Rescue Team
> Leader.
>
> Sorry that slipped my mind.
>
> I have read volumes of training books and don't
> know where people get that Jerry copied others
> work as I have NEVER come across his methods
> before. I would like to see proof.
>
> Just like Jerry outlined I eliminated problems one
> at at time as they arose. I used to try and train to
> the way I wanted them but this is backward, you
> train out the problems leaving what you want left over.
>
> Funny part is the second dog who had the same
> problems as the other didn't need correcting for
> some of his habits after I cleared it from the first
> dog.
>
> Seemed he learned through osmosis.
>
> Nice side benefit there.
>
> It nearly came to giving them up to a 3rd party
> trainer as they were not performing well. The
> VAST majority of working dog trainers are
> agressive in their actions with the dogs.
>
> I tried it and it didn't work and guess what I
> was at my "Whits End" then someone I new
> turned me onto Jerry and the rest is history.
>
> I referred friends and families to Jerry's manual
> and all have had great results. Starting puppies
> out on the distraction technique is especially
> good because they never develop the habit.
>
> I had my sisters dog healing, sitting and down
> stay reliably at 8-9 weeks. The first night home
> following Jerrys advice we ditched the crate and
> put the pup on the floor beside the bed and after
> 2 whimpers NOT A SOUND OUT OF THAT DOG
> FOR 6 HRS! first night, that has never happened
> in all my days.
>
> Sorry, the man understands dogs its that simple.
>
> Mike
>
>
> "Ama...@DCFWatch.com" wrote:
>
> No, the dog learned that I would hold still
> the second she began to pull. She would pull
> to go where *she* wanted.
>
> Well if she wanted to stop and go in another
> direction.. say to sniff my neighbors yard..
>
> she learned if she wanted to do it I would stop
> walking and she could go.. and if there wasn't
> enough slack on her lead she would just pull me.
>
> Then when she got done doing *her* thing, she woudl
> heel.. smile at me and wait for me to say "let's go"
> and finish *my* thing. I would refuse to move .. i
> looked like an idiot.. freezing mid walk for minutes
> waiting for *my* dog to heel and give *me* permission
> to go again.
>
> I did the treats and the let's go... she got to do her
> stuff and get a cookie.. if she even wanted the cookie.
>
> I wound up calling Jerry.. as I have a half red nose
> pit and half amstaff.. who is incredibly protective..
>
> we had a new pup on the way.. and i needed help.. i
> followed petsmarts trainnign guides.. memorized them...
> and they *did* work, don't get me wrong.. but only
> when my pet wanted a cookie or felt the cookie was
> better than what she wanted.. which was not often.
>
> She quickly learned to ignore my commands if she
> could see my hands were empty. So I called Jerry...
> he chatted me for about an hour and a half.. gave me
> his link... and even when i had probs intro'ing the
> pup he called me withn i5 mins of my email for help
> at 10pm on a sunday night.
>
> One.. singular.. uno family pack exercise after
> the hot and cold exercise and i could zig zag
> down my street.. about face .. whatever.. and
> never had tension.
>
> two men were acrossed the street and she walked right
> by them... ordinarily she'd snarl and protect us.
>
> And in two days.. my dog.. who bit the puppy if he
> even looked like he was going near my husband or kids..
> is nursing him every hour.. cleaning him.. rough housing
> gently.. and teaching him to go potty outside..
>
> actually watches him to make sure he doesn't go in
> the house... and has milk.. which is awesome since
> she's 19 months old and has never had a litter.
>
> She also has stopped barking non stop at our neighbor's
> dogs and pig.. does not bark at eveyr car that drives by
> and has stopped jumping on people. she's even starting
> to ignore our cat who has lived on her dome litter box
> and our window sill (literally) for over a year and a half.
>
> She also does her commands on cue.. and doesn't look for a treat.
>
> From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
> Subject: The Amazing Jerry's take on psychobabble
> Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:13:44 -0400
>
> You might improve the learning of folk who actually
> live with and train dogs to do useful things if you
> excluded everyone who uses psychobabble from your lists.
>
> I recommend to all of you who wish to taste the flavor
> of sensible animal behaviorists to read THE MISBEHAVIOR
> OF ORGANISMS, Breland and Breland.
>
> This married pair of psychologists began the long trail
> of highly trained animals who are symbolized by Shamu
> eating a mackrel from a girl's hand instead of eating
> the much more tasty pretty girl who is exactly the size
> of the natural food of killer whales, seals. Yum!
>
> The essay, by the way, is a chapter in B.F. Skinner's
> summing up book, CUMULATIVE RECORD. They include a
> sentence which more or less says, "unless you understand
> the personal history of the particular animal, and the
> history of this animal's species and group, the developmental
> history of the animal, you cannot effectively train the animal.
>
> Pigs root and hen's scratch, if you try to train hens without
> scratching or pigs without scratching or pigeons without pecking,
> you aren't going to have much success.
>
> A conditional reflex is one which is learned, the original
> primitive reflex occurs no matter what the history of the
> animal, and is hard wired. If you train the animal to respond,
> say by ringing a bell immediately before turning on a bright
> light, then you've taught the animal and made his native reflex
> of pupil constriction conditional upon the ringing of a bell.
>
> Thorndyke added some terminology to this kind of training
> and insisted that when you train the animal to make gross
> motor responses that this learning is "instrumental", the
> animal takes action and uses an instrument.
>
> The Russian word translated as "conditional" in all other
> contexts was mistranslated by Pavlov's American translator,
> Horsley Gannt, as "conditioned" and so American psychology
> went haring after phantasmagora.
>
> The major theorists for the development of the language of
> operant conditioning are Edward Thorndike, John Watson, and
> B. F. Skinner. Their approach to behaviorism played a major
> role in the development of American psychology.
>
> They proposed that learning is the result of the application
> of consequences; that is, learners begin to connect certain
> responses with certain stimuli. This connection causes the
> probability of the response to change (i.e., learning occurs.)
>
> Thorndike labeled this type of learning instrumental. Using
> consequences, he taught kittens to manipulate a latch (e.g.,
> an instrument). Skinner renamed instrumental as "operant"
> because in this learning, one is "operating" on, and is
> influenced by, the environment. Where classical conditioning
> illustrates S-->R learning, operant conditioning is often
> viewed as R-->S learning since it is the consequence that
> follows the response that influences whether the response
> is likely or unlikely to occur again.
>
> It is through operant conditioning that
> voluntary responses are learned.
>
> One should note that Russian Psychology did very well
> without the operant language, and only pettifogging
> university professors ought to worry about what kind
> of label we attach to the learning. Pfui!
>
> Even Skinner understood this!
>
> And please note if you saw the original movie, THE
> MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE, you saw a Chinese psychologist
> who was based on Andrew Salter, CONDITIONED REFLEX
> THERAPY.
>
> Alas, Salter didn't have a Ph.D., but he basically rescued
> us from the long Freudian nightmare and returned psychotherapy
> to a scientific basis. Alas, the 2nd movie didn't even cite
> Salter as a source. "...all the highest nervous activity, as
> it manifests itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a
> continual change of these three fundamental processes --
> excitation, inhibition and disinhibition." Ivan P. Pavlov
>
> George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
>
> What's important is, "does Shamu reliably eat
> the fish and not the pretty girl?"
>
> George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.
>
> From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com
> To: <d...@arcane-computing.com
> Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:38 PM
> Subject: Doggy advice
>
> Scott, Jerry Howe forwarded me the letter below.
> I'm glad that you referred negatively to Jerry's
> habit of CAPITALIZING and HOWEING everything.
>
> I personally hate this habit of his. I think it is his
> way of diluting his authority - IME he is a very modest
> fellow. However, contrary to your sneer, he is very
> competent at living with dogs.
>
> I thought I'd list a series of actions which I found
> on the list, folk asking advice on what to do about
> dogs doing this and that, for example:
>
> whining,
> humping, hunching,
> pacing,
> self mutilation - paw licking, side sucking,
> spinning,
> prolonged barking, barking at shadows,
> overstimulated barking,
> fighting, bullying other dogs,
> compulsive digging,
> compulsive scratching,
> compulsive chewing,
> frantic behavior,
> chasing light, chasing shadow,
> stealing food,
> digging in garbage can,
> loosing house (toilet) training.
> inappropriate fearfulness
> aggression.
>
> The thing that is fascinating to me, as an ethologist who
> graduated from college 50 years ago and has spent all of
> the intervening time working with animals (including the
> human animal), is that you never see any of these behaviors
> in wild dingoes, jackals, coyotes or wolves, you don't even
> see these behaviors in hyenas (who aren't dog related).
>
> You see these behaviors in human managed animals, especially
> animals who live with neurotic hysterical humans.
>
> As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
> nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
> is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving
> care.
>
> George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
> Academy of Behavioral Medicine
>
> "Linda" <llindaleedan...@msn.com wrote in message
> news:
>
> I have been trying for the last 18 months to help my
> dog who became fear aggressive at 18 month of age.
> I do not know what started the problem but he came
> aggressive first with dogs and then began lunging and
> snapping at people. Until this time he loved everyone
> and could play with any dog. He was well socialized
> ad I took him with me everywhere.
>
> At 13 months he passed the Canine Good Citizens
> Test except he could let me leave him. I had used
> clicker training to teach him manners and tricks but
> it was not working on his aggression problem.
>
> I took him to vets who suggested a low protein diet,
> trainers who charged $800 to only make him worse.
> They tried to use a prong collar and he froze, urinated
> and tried to climb on my head to help him. they then
> suggested a shock collar I knew this approach was not
> working as he was becoming more aggressive.
>
> I took him to an animal behaviorist with Ph. D. 400 miles
> away who told me to "KEEP HIM SAFE" and read a book
> on the fearful canine. I tried another trainer who tried to
> use a nylon chock collar but it only made him worse.
>
> I read hundreds of books,"CULTURE CLASH", "DOG
> ARE FROM NEPTUNE", "THE OTHER END OF THE
> LEASH", ETC looking for help. We finally went to Purdue
> University Small Animal Behavior Clinic and they said he
> had fear aggression, punishment would not work, use the
> gentle leader and when out walking and he got stressed
> have the people stop until he could get in control using
> treats, and work on clicker training.
>
> At that point I knew more about clicker training and using
> the gentle leader than they did! Nothing was working--he
> would not come when I called him and would run away when
> I tried to catch him. I was afraid to walk him even in the
> neighborhood as we had become that "mean dog and women
> who hasn't trained her dog"
>
> I went to four trainers in both Michigan and Florida who
> were trainer/specialists in aggression and the last two
> were so afraid of him they could not approach him. No one
> said I should give up on him and kill him but they would
> say "You have to realize he is dangerous and you are
> responsible for him."
>
> *(You got LUCKY, Linda... They coulda got Sunshine
> DEAD on us. Damned near did... too.)
>
> As last resort I tried the internet again--I had had on
> going discussions with trainers from Triple Crown and Dr
> Meister with out any help-and I found the ad to Doggy Do
> Right and messaged Jerry to ask if this might help my dog.
> He said solving the aggression problem was EZ but I could
> not believe him even when I downloaded the manual.
>
> The name of the method was right I was at my Wits End.
> I had been working for 18 months!
>
> Using the can sound three time he came, and still comes
> from anywhere with the command-"comegoodboy" Next
> I tried the can when walking him--when he saw a dog three
> blocks away he went off-lunging and snapping-I used the
> can sound and he looked at me like uhn?
>
> I used it three more times and we got to the other dog-
> -the looked at me wagging his tail--the other person
> looked at me like why are shaking that can but just walked
> on by.
>
> When ever I try to explain about the sound people look at
> me like "you must be out of your mind"
>
> The results can make a believer!!!
>
> Three weeks since beginning the Wits End Training
> Manual program I walked him without the gentle leader
> in a busy shopping area with many dogs.
>
> He just seemed to not notice any one.
>
> When people talked to him or ask his name he would
> look at then and wag his tail and let then pet him.
>
> I still can not believe the change in him--we can now
> enjoy life out in public.
>
> If I had not found the Wits End method I know there
> was no hope for him and he would have hurt someone
> Through all this he never growled at me, guarded his
> toys or food or showed any sign of aggression with me.
>
> My goal is to get the message out to all dog lovers that
> dogs can be trained fast, easily and problems solved with
> out force, pain, food or anything but sound and praise!!!!
>
> I know most people would have given up on him a long time
> ago but he was and is my life. Solving the problem was EZ
> but only with the right approach-sound and praise.
>
> I know because I tried everything else and nothing worked!!!
>
> ================================
>
> From: Linda Daniel
> To: Jerry Howe
> Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:06 AM
> Subject: Re: - Re: dog aggression
>
> Thanks for writing--I would be happy to do almost anything
> to get your approach out to dog owners as I know it would
> save so many lives. I know at times I was so frustrated I
> thought of giving up on Sunshine but of course I never would
> have but many people would have. The world just does not
> know you can train a dog in just a few sessions and actually
> solve problems.
>
> We will be here until late April and we really have no plans-
> -just to enjoy the warmth and sun of Florida, so any time
> you could meet us would be great. I drive so I would be
> happy to come to you anytime anywhere!
>
> We went to Celebration today and two little poodles got
> right into his face and he just sat there--I GOT a little
> scared but he handled it just fine.--a couple of times people
> would ask his name and want to pet him and he just went
> to them tail wagging and rolled over for them rub his tummy.
>
> He really just is not concerned about people passing, even
> those on rollerblades! I have always used a gentle leader
> in public but he spent most of time rubbing his face on the
> grass--today I used his collar and he was so much happier!!
>
> Only problem is he will stop to smell and I can not get
> stopped soon enough to keep the leash loose. He never
> pulled ahead of me but when he gets into smelling I have
> a hard time getting him going--at times I think he could
> smell a blade of grass for 10 minutes.
>
> I can never thank you enough for giving Sunshine back!!!!!
>
> I wrote to Purdue and told them about him being able to
> walk in a crowd with out the /gentle leader and not having
> a problem with other people and dogs.
>
> I told them their advice did not work. Their advice was
> to use the gentle leader at all times and when he was
> around people or dogs to have him sit and reward with
> treats--one really good suggestions was to have people
> coming toward us stop when he got stressed or aroused
> and not move until we backed away-
>
> - can you just see me yelling at people to stop on the street
> until I get his attention with treats.
>
> They also suggested the possibility of using drugs-prozac-
> but thought he was too dangerous as the drug would make
> him less fearful and then he might attack or become more
> sure of himself and become dominate aggressive. Just had
> to share their great advice with you but I am sure you have
> heard it all--even I am becoming an expert on bad advice.
>
> ----------------------------------
>
>
> ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
> `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
> (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
> _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
> (((' (((-((('' ((((
>
>
> |\ _.-'~~""'~`'~)
> /, ~-,__,,,.'~ ,-;;--''
> |,4) ./ ' ; ;/'
> '-~~;'@ ( ; ;
> _.--'' _.-_..' .;.'
> (,_..----''' (,..--''
>
>
> Meow
>
>
> /),,/)
> ( ' ; ')
> (,,)-(,,)
>
>
> /),,/)
> (' ; ') kiss me
> (,,)-(,,)
>
>
> /),,/)
> ( ; ' ) kiss me here
> (,,)-(,,)
>
>
> /),,/)
> ( ; ) kiss me here
> (,,)-(,,)
>
>
> /)
> ( * ) and KISS ME HERE!
> (,,)-(,,)
> The Amazing Pussy Wizard <{@); ~ } >
>
>
> <{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
> <{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
> <{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
> <{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
> <{#}: ~ } > http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u < { ~ :{@}>
> <{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
> <{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
> <{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
> <{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
>
> http://www.irishdogs.ie/Information/Wits_End_Dog_Training.pdf
>
> Please DON'T BE The Amazing Pussy Wizard's PREY.
>
> IT AIN'T PRETTY.
>
> <(@}; ~ } >


A*@HushMail.Com
2006-01-29 16:24:41 EST
HOWEDY Rene,

I*p@i-love-dogs.com wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> Could someone please explain what's going on here?
>
> Who says pinch collars do not pinch and why is anyone
> defending using such barbaric devices on a living being?
>
> And what wizard? Have you been reading too much Harry Potter?
>
> Thank you. Rene.

Try this:

HOWEDY tommy,

Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:
> Suja <spanaval@scs.gmu.edu> wrote in
> news:xpPHe.440$ah4.103@lakeread05:
>
> > Janet Puistonen wrote:
> >> $7000 for a puppy? Did it walk on water, too?
> >
> > I had to bite my tongue when I heard that. I mean,
> > what kind of sensible person would pay that kind of
> > money for a dog?

You'd be VERY SURPRISED to see the kinda money Uncle
Sam and your state and local polices are PAYIN for
"SELECTIVELY BRED K-9's" like lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn's SAR dog JIVE. You remember him tommy, HE RETIRED
pryor to EVER WORKIN a SAR site and has of late been
FAILING in the sheep herding ring, since sufferin JOB
BURNHOWET in SAR work... too much RESPONSIBILITY for
him, eh tommy?

> > Especially when it is just going to be a pet? That's
> > one of the things I didn't have a problem with, BTW -
> > if people are quite that gullible, they can expect to
> > be fully taken advantage of.

UNLESS THEY KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOIN, like lying "I LOVE
KOEHLER" lynn, FOR EXXXAMPLE <{); ~ ) >

> Hark!

Show a little leg, tommy.

> Never let it be said that Handsome Jack Morrison
> doesn't go the extra mile in his pursuit of Truth,
> Justice and the American Way.

But OF CURSE! You S-HOWEND just like captain arthur
haggerty, your MENTOR, and his flunky pal STUDENT
booby maida, another fighter for truth and justice
and the AMERICAN WAY just like yourself, tommy.

> I just got off the phone with Fr. Mark at the Monks,

Ain't THAT charmin, eh tommy? Did you IDENTIFY YOURSELF
or did you go by your false name of joey finnochario like
you used when you looked up The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
records at Orlando City Hall, eh tommy?

> and he said that the price for Monks pups at the current
> time is $2000 (recently raised from $1750, because they
> breed less often these days).

Meanin since the GSD has been on the DECLINE due to
heelth and temperament PROBLEMS reported RIGHT HERE
on The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Forums, eh tommy?

> They've *never* sold one for more than $3500, and that
> was for a fully-trained *adult* GSD, with OTCH prospects

You mean he wasn't even started, tommy.

> (for a comparison, it's not that rare for FC retrievers
> to change hands for 6 figure amounts).

INDEEDY? But not through a PUPPY MILLER like yourself, tommy.

> They also put *each* dog that's in their breeding program
> through the standard battery of health testing, including
> hips, elbows, eyes, vWD, etc., but he wasn't sure what the
> entire protocol was.

That's EZ tommy, it's been written abHOWET RIGHT HERE
by your own punk thug coward mental case pal Master Of
Deception blankman. She sez they say they STRESS their
puppies in a variety of ways to make them better...

"I know not everyone is comfortable with the modified
Koehler style promoted by the Monks -"

And she's a lying dog abusing MENTAL CASE herself,
just like you, tommy, ain't that the TRUTH?

But we wasn't talkin abHOWET her, we was talkin abHOWET you:

You sez:

> At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
> dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
> *not* constitute a "beating."

And then you sez:

"I don't know how big you are, kiddo, so this may
not be as easy for you as it is for me, but use
a little "knee action," that is, as the dog goes
charging by you, just give the dog a little bop
with your knee and shin. Yep, really lean into it.

Even knock her over, if you can, but make sure to
make her think twice about rushing past you again -
- which is exactly what you want her to do.

Don't bother with scolding her, she'll get the message.

If it happens again, just REPEAT the knee action.

When she steps on your toes, just pick up your foot
abruptly and nudge her with your knee. Again, no
scolding is necessary here, so you don't have to
worry about her "over-reacting."

I don't think this is necessarily a lack of respect
for you, just a lack of training. That is, she just
needs *more* of it."

> He's going to have Fr. John call me back with more information.

Yeah, but you're a PROVEN LIAR and DOG ABUSING MENTAL CASE
and YOU MAKE MONEY off of SELLIN THEIR BOOKS and MOVIES,
tommy, so your WORD is that of a SPAMMER and SCAMMER, to boot:

Date: 1999/01/15
Subject: Re: Another mouthy lab
Get this book:

"The Art of Raising A Puppy," by the Monks of New Skete

If you can't find it locally, you can obtain it
through my Web site (see below).

You'll need it for more than just the usual puppy
"mouthing" problems, anyway.

And good luck with your Lab puppy!
--
Dogman

> [Fr. John just called me back(on my cell phone), but I
> was in my truck and apparently in a dead zone of some kind,

You been in a DEAD ZONE since DAY WON P.T.A.P.W.E. (Pryor
to The Amazing Puppy Wizard Era). BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHHAAA!!!

> so we couldn't hear each other very well.

NO PROBLEMO, tommy. We'll just accept you WORD for
what you'd LIKE us to BELIEVE.

LIKE THIS:

From: dog...@i1.net (Dogman)
Date: 1999/01/17
Subject: Re: Training book by a bunch of monks

Upon my return to the Cuckoo's Nest, Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:22:02 GMT,
k*.@cave-systems.on.ca (Kevin Haryett) says:

"The Art of Raising A Puppy," by the Monks of New Skete

*Very* good book...but forget the stuff about "alpha rolls."
--
Dogman

From: bob...@aol.com (Bob Maida)
Date: 2000/06/24
Subject: Re: Best behavior book?

HI,
2 books, I would recommed are Understanding Your
Dog by Dr Michael Fox Mother Knows Best by Carol
Benjamin The Art of Raising A Puppy by The Monks of
New Skete (and NO, the Monks book does not have the
"alpha roll" in it)

------------------

Seems WON of you BELIEVERS in TRUTH JUSTICE and
The AMERICAN WAY is a doGgamened LIAR, eh tommy?
We know who THAT is, tommy... it's YOUR PAL gumbah
booby maida, captain arthur haggerty's PROTEGE.

BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAAHHAHAAAA!!!

NOT FOR NUTHIN, other than to substantiate
that you mentally ill lying dog abusing punk
thug coward mental cases will do and say ANY
THING to defend your alleged RIGHT to HURT
INTIMDIATE and MURDER innocent critters.

> We arranged for me to call him back tomorrow,
> this time on a land line, to discuss it further.

What's to DISCUSS, tommy? You're a liar and dog
abuser like your mentally ill pat booby, and the
monks are a bunch of heavy handed ignorant puppy
milling LHOWETS, like yourself, tommy.

> He said he was very happy to talk about it,

That so? Let's talk abHOWET YOUR DOGS, tommy?
Let's talk abHOWET your CHUMPION FIELD DOGS,
eh tommy? AIN'T YOU PRHOWED of your kennels?

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAAAA!!!

> because they were very proud of the testing they do,

That so? And they're VERY PRHOWED of THIS:

From: "Jerry Howe" <j...@cfl.rr.com>
Date: 2000/09/19
Subject: The Monks Of New Skete
Recommend These Disciplinary Measures:

The Monks look charming on the outside, but
they have heavy handed techniques.

I've seen advice as to how to hit your dog coming
from them, and lots of other non productive, even
dangerous advice.

While I realize that your definition of abuse differs
greatly from mine, I have spent most of the last thirty-
six years retraining dogs brought up and trained by
abusive techniques.

In The Art of Raising a Puppy , copyright 1991, the
Monks of New Skete recommend these disciplinary measures:

1. Scruff shake. (recommended for puppies, 8-12 weeks)
Grab scruff of neck, shake firmly, bark "NO!"

2. Shakedown. Grab sides of throat with both hands,
lifting dog's front feet off floor, stare, shake
several times, and bark "NO!"

3. "Using a firm cuff underneath the chin with your
opened hand...To make this correction effectively,
your dog must be anchored in a sitting position with
your left hand holding onto his collar.

As you make eye contact with your dog, cuff the
underside of his mouth with your opened right
hand, rapping him sharply several times, as you
say NO!" (recommended for 5-6 month old puppies)

4. Stick finger down throat to stop mouthing or
squeeze and shake muzzle hard enough to elicit
a whine, and bark "NO!"

5. To stop jumping, grab front paws of jumping
pup, and force him to remain in that position
long enough to become uncomfortable.

6. Leash Pop with choke collar (Also pupularized
as the Margolis Jerk)

Those actions and attitudes are behaviors your
dog will learn to copy, and apply to you.

Let me start by calling attention to the recent
notoriety of shaken baby syndrome. Although dogs
have a loose scruff, the brain damage can result
just the same, and disk damage may occur.

The ubiquitous leash pop is my number one gripe.
It is recommended and used by almost everyone.
The sharp corrections on leash continue throughout
the life of the dog.

It is recommended they be increased in severity
and frequency as the dog becomes more resistant
and the trainer thinks the dog knows what is
expected of him but the dog refuses to do it.

(Dogs don't do things out of spite!) Nerve damage
can result from leash corrections. Makes me nauseous
to hear people say that dogs don't feel pain the
same way we do.

As a society we don't condone treating our children
or employees that way. What makes abuse O.K. for
animals? Force, abuse, and punishment do not have
any place in a learning environment!

Most of the mistakes our dogs make are not even
understood by the dog to be mistakes. The punishment
is not understood, and behavior problems result
from the abuse.

BUT YOU SEZ:

"My objective is always to find a way that WORKS.
And if it is DANGEROUS behavior that I'm trying
to modify, behavior than can get the dog KILLED,
I will resort to ANYTHING to save him.

A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G.

Okay. Call me a cruel, inhumane, abusive bastard
if you want to, but it doesn't affect me at all.
When you've saved the lives of as many dogs as I
have, you'll learn that that's the only thing that
really matters. Saving lives and making dogs become
good citizens"

HOWE abHOWET all them DEAD DOGS you TRAINED RIGHT
HERE that your TERRORIZM DIDN'T SAVE, tommy?

Like Robert Crim's, kwbrown's, laura arlov's,
tara o.' DEAD DOGS, FOR EXXXAMPLE, tommy?

> and the dogs they produce.

You mean, LIKE THIS?:

From: Tara <taragre...@verizon.net>
Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2005 17:58:51 GMT

Subject: Re: good dog training books?

I've personally seen their methods (as applied by
them) NOT work on dogs they themselves have bred.

IMO, their methods actually made the underlying problems
*worse*. In three cases, where they both bred and trained
the dogs, they subsequently washed their hands of the dogs
and suggested euthanasia....and then promptly tried to
talk the owners into taking another one of their own pups.

<snip>

Since I have serious issues and doubts about the
practices and ethics of the Monks, I obviously
only support the latter two ;-)

Tara

Of curse SHE'S likeWIZE, a DOG ABUSING MENTAL CASE, eh tommy?

> He named his vet, a Dr. Wolski, and welcomed me
> to call him, too. I can get the number tomorrow,
> when I call again. Yes, I intend to report back
> tomorrow,

Well that's kindly of you, tommy... considerin
YOUR BUSINESS DEPENDS on SELLIN THEIR BOOKS.

> after we've talked and I've gathered
> additional information FIRST-HAND.

Yeah, but comin from you tommy, it's WORTHLESS, at best.
Your WORD AIN'T NO GOOD here abHOWETS, tommy.

> He also welcomed me to drop by for a visit.

THEY SELL PUPPIES, tommy, and he's 2,000 miles away.

> The Monks are always happy to have people visit,
> and no appointment is required. Yep, sounds just
> like a puppy mill to me...sheesh.]

INDEEDY! They got a VERY WELL STAFFED PUPPY MILL.

> I also recommended to him that they might want
> to put something on their website about the testing.

You AIN'T blaming BAD TEMPERAMENTS on GENES again,
are you tommY? Do they got a GENTIC TEST for FEAR
AGGRESSION, tommy?

> They have their own way of testing temperaments,

THEY HURT INTIMIDATE AND MURDER DOGS, like HOWE you do, tommy.

> of which they write about in their books.

THEY'RE DOG ABUSERS AND THEY ADMIT IT:

> A quote from the Monks:

> "We repeat, these situations may merit physical discipline.
> Since no book can pretend to analyze every individual dog
> and situation, we feel obligated to emphasize from the
> outset that discipline is never an arbitrary training
> technique to be applied to each and every dog for all
> offenses. We do, however, believe that physical and verbal
> discipline can be an effective technique. The best policy if
> you experience any of the above problems is to consult a
> qualified trainer or veterinarian for evaluation of your
> individual situation....

> "If discipline is decided upon as a training technique, it
> should be the proper technique. We feel we have developed
> several methods that depend less on violent physical force
> than timing, a flair for drama, and the element of surprise.
> We feel an obligation, as responsible trainers, to map out
> these methods, rather than simply skip the topic because it
> is unpleasant. Dog owners want to know what to do."

> >> Well, it certainly sounds as if their breeding program
> >> went into a steep decline after an auspicious beginning-
> >> -perhaps as a result of misguidedly trying to keep up
> >> with the demand.

PERHAPS THAT'S HOWE COME the GSD 'WENT INTO DECLINE,' eh tommy?

> > Perhaps. There was a time when they produced nice dogs.

Sez WHO?

> > They had a good guide for their breeding program at that time.

A GUIDE???

> > The one person who got a dog from them early on said
> > that the dog was about as fabulous as they get, and
> > hooked her on GSDs for life. Which is why she bought
> > from them again.
>
> And I think that if you poke around a bit, that's
> more like what you'll hear from the vast majority
> of current Monks owners, too.

You mean, all but those who GOT BURNED by their PUPPY
MILL STOCK and their ABUSIVE METHODS, tommy?

> The Monks pace their breedings to the numbers of
> monks they have on hand and available for assignment
> to the pups.

INDEED?

> When they have more monks in residence, they are
> able to produce more pups, and vice versa. They
> have fewer monks these days, so they're producing
> fewer pups.

So as their monkey shines are on the decline, likeWIZE
their PUPPY MILL BUSINESS, tommy? BWEEEEEEEAHAHAHHAA!!!

> Demand for their pups has never been greater.

Accordin to WHOM, tommy?

> But they no longer allow names to be placed on a waiting list.
> They just can't deal with the demand, so they don't even try.

That's ABSURD, tommy.

> When they do plan a breeding, they are now going to
> announce it on their web site, and then take reservations
> for pups (which may or may not be honored, depending on
> the litter size.) First come, first served. Then they'll
> start the process all over again for the next planned breeding.
>
> At least that's the current plan.

So, after all these years they're STILL FIGGRERIN IT HOWET, tommy?

> >> It sounds as if they must have incorporated at
> >> least one sire into their program that turned
> >> out to have less than desirable genes.
> >
> > I've heard of a female who was put down because
> > she stopped producing.

In keepin with TRUE puppy mill fashion, eh tommy?

> > Apparently, she should've never been bred at all,
> > because she was overly aggressive. This is third
> > hand information though, and I have no way of
> > verifying it.

Well, tommy can just ask friar tuck when he speaks
to him tommorow to verify that they're not dog abusing
puppy millers like hisself. BWEEEEAAHAHAHAAAAA!!!

> Then why even pass it on?

On accHOWENT of you're dealin with DOG
ABUSING MENTAL CASES, tommy. IT DON'T
MATTER WHAT THE ISSUE IS, you're DEALIN
WITH DOG ABUSING LYIN MENTAL CASES here.

From: "dogtraining" <b...@basta.net>
Date: 1999/03/29
Subject: Re: Monks (was Lab. Puppy questions)

The Monks live in New Skette (spelling not sure) which
is upstate New York... the system they use is by having
the dog all day with them while they eat, work, and talk
to god... they are monks of the greek ortodox church (I
believe...) the system is excelent providing you do not
condem "harsh" methods...!

I hope the information is useful to you....

Regards

> Hopefully it didn't come from the same person
> who claimed to have paid $7000 for her PUPPY(!)?

Well, some folks will say ANY THING to make themselves
S-HOWEN MOORE IMPORTANT than they really are, eh tommy?

> Maybe you were taught in school to rely on third-hand
> information, and not just second-hand information(!),
> right? So why not go for broke,

And take tommy's word for it.

> and now try relying on fourth or even fifth-hand
> information, the next time you decide to slander
> a breeder's reputation?

Like yours, tommy? You're a ETHICKAL BREEDER yet
you REFUSE TO IDENTIFY YOURSELF and IN FACT DENY
who you are KNOWN TO BE. You DO REMEMBER HOWER
CONVERSATION on YOUR PHONE at tommy sorenson's
PUPPY MILL, tommy? DON'T YOU? You didn't wanna
TALK BUSINESS with The Amazing Puppy Wizard on
accHOWENT of you're a lyin dog abusing punk thug
coward mental case puppy miller.

> Maybe you can find someone who talked to someone
> who talked to someone who said that she got it
> from her cousin, twice removed, who got it from
> her landlady's maid, who got it from her sister's
> chauffeur, who overheard it being whispered into
> a cell phone by a swarthy looking gentleman standing
> on the corner of Fifth and Broadway, and wearing a
> backpack?

INDEED THAT would be MOORE RELIABLE than RELYING on
the WORD of the BOOK SALESMAN for the DOG ABUSERS
and PUPPY MILLERS.

> You are either a very naive person, or you're not
> nearly as smart as I once thought you were.

Sez it all, eh tommy?

> >> Perhaps that's why they seem to have pulled back
> >> severely. (I wonder how many litters they were
> >> producing per year, and how many they produce now?)
>
> > All good questions. More than they should've is my guess.
>
> Keep in mind that the monks, compared with most breeders,

Like yourself, tommy? TELL US abHOWET YOUR OWN KENNELS, tommy?

> have a *lot* of help.

AS EXXXAMPLED by your pal lying frosty dahl when
she DISCOVERED CANNIBALISM in Labradorable dogs
when she left a NEW MOM with her litter so she
could SELL PUPPIES, REMEMBER tommy?

> That is, each and every monk has puppy
> raising/training responsibilities.

THEY HURT and INTIMDIATE dogs, tommy.

> They also have the help of a nearby convent,
> staffed with nuns, if they need more help.

So that LEGITIMIZES their PUPPY MILL and ABUSE?

PERHAPS the good Sisters are trying to SAVE THEM, tommy,
JUST LIKE HOWE you SAVE DOGS from the needle, eh tommy?

> They don't compete with their dogs because they have
> prayer and chapel responsibilities to tend to on week-ends,

That so? Are they SeventhDayEpiscopalJews, tommy?

They got HIGHER BUSINESS dealin on Saturday AND Sunday?

> when most competitions are being held.

You mean as a PROFESSIONAL SHOW DOG BREEDER and TRAINER
you don't know they got THURSDAY FRIDAY and MONDAY SHOWES?

BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!

There's NEVER been such a LAME EXXXCUSE as THAT WON, tommy.

> They do however strongly encourage their buyers to
> compete and test, etc., and they rely on their results
> and periodic reports back to them for additional breeding
> information.

Oh GOODY! You can LOOK UP THEIR SHOWE DOG HISTORY in AKC, tommy.

HOWE many monks dogs do you SEE makin CHUMPIONSHIPS?

> >> I think both you and Jack have a point. Bad breeders
> >> they may have become, commercial breeders yes, but
> >> perhaps the term "puppy mill" is misplaced?

PERHAPS it's just the TERMINOLOGY, eh tommy? PUPPY MILLER
kinda makes your skin itch, don't it, tommy. Let's talk
abHOWET tommy soronen's kennels, MO, USA, tommy? You're
RIGHT IN THE HEART of PUPPY MILL COUNTRY, ain't you, tommy.

> >> I don't know exactly where to draw that line. "Ethical"
> >> breeders in the accepted sense they definitely are not
> >> if they don't do standard health testing at least.
> []

Ask brother john or friar tuck if they ACCPET their
REJECTED PUPPIES back from their BUYERS with a FULL
REFUND, like ANY ETHICKAL BREEDER DOES, eh tommy?

> > Maybe the Monks were just unethical breeders.

Naaah, they're a bunch of IGNORAMUSES, like tommy
and the rest of these lying dog abusing punk thug
coward MENTAL CASES who post their IDIOCY here abHOWETS.

> What *proof* do you have that the Monks have ever
> done anything in an unethical way?

Only REPORTED CASE HISTORIES we got RIGHT HERE,
and the INFORMATION in their very own books, tommy.

> Even once?

We've been through that a few times already, tommy.
You MENTAL CASES got a HABIT of askin the SAME IDIOTIC
QUESTIONS despite having GOT the IDIOTIC TRUTH answered,
when YOU DON'T LIKE THE TRUTH, tommy.

> Sheesh.

Yeah.. you DENY the TRUTH and EXXXPET folks to
BELIEVE an anonymHOWES VULGAR DOG ABUSING COWARD
like yourself, an ANONYMHOWES COWARD and LIAR,
tommy, like yourself. A LYING DOG ABUSING ANONYMHOWES
PUNK THUG COWARD MENTAL CASE, like yourself, tommy.

> > Maybe they were "good" puppy millers.

Of curse, tommy. They mighta made a little MISTAKE.

> What kind of puppy mill has a monk assigned to *each*
> puppy at birth, and who then gets to live inside with
> the monk, who then cares for him, socializes him, trains
> him, feeds him, etc., until he's old enough to eventually
> be sold to his permanent owners?

BWEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!! THEY'RE DOG ABUSERS LIKE YOURSELF.

From: x...@yyy.berkeley.edu
Date: 1995/05/13
Subject: Re: GSD pups from the Monks of New Skete; how much?

I have met a couple of GSDs from their breeding and have
found them to be on the shy to timid side. However, I
have no idea what their owners were like and how much
socialization they provided, etc. Just don't expect
miracles because someone is an author.

> Take as long as you need to find one.

THEY'RE A FULLY STAFFED PUPPY MILL, tommy. BIG DEAL.
THEY HURT and INTIMDIATE dogs, tommy.

> > Either way, I am not about to line their pockets.
> > And I can't help but object to others who knowingly
> > or unknowingly do the same.
>
> Yeah, I know. You can't help yourself from
> slandering people, a la Jerry Howe.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard aka Jerry HOWE don't know
or CARE abHOWET the monkies BREEDING practices, HE
only cares abHOWET their ABUSE of innocent dumb
critters in their BOOKS that YOU SELL, REMEMBER tommy?

> What a piece of work you turned out to be.

Let's not throw the baby HOWET with the bathwater, eh tommy?

> Sheesh.

Let's talk abHOWET beatin dogs to HOWEsbreak them, tommy?

> By the way, you might want to call this number:
>
> 518-677-3828
>
> Ask for Fr. John.
>
> He also invites you (or anyone else) to visit
> the Monks facilities, too.

THEY SELL PUPPIES, tommy. THEY NEED folks to SEE THEIR PUPPIES.

> Yep, they really sound like a puppy mill.

INDEEDY, tommy. A FULLY STAFFED PUPPY MILL.
But THAT AIN'T THE PROBLEM, tommy:

From: "Kieron Dodds" <nospam.kdo...@nospam.email.msn.com>
Date: 1998/03/15
Subject: Re: Monks of New Skete

Just as a bit of a counterpoint, my trainer has a Great
Pyrenees looking for a home right now that was *ruined*
by these books. Not all methods are valid for all dogs
or all owners or all dog/owner combinations.

While these books may work for you and others and dogs
you have worked, I've found the practices within to be
significantly less reliable than other methods, even
when properly applied, especially the "shake", even if
the methods do work for many owners and dogs.

Personally, I've seen far too many disastrous results
to recommend these books to anyone (sight unseen).

IOW, one can't really recommend a book or method without
first evaluating the owner/dog combo and anyone reading
such recommendations should remember this and remember
to try other methods when the ones they are using fail.

> <boggle>

You want BOGGLE, tommy?:

From: "Avrama Gingold" <avr...@mindspring.com>
Date: 1999/11/25
Subject: Re: Recommendations on Puppy training Books


Personally, I do not care for the Monks book.
(Even Job Michael Evans, one of its two co-authors,
later rethought the "alpha roll" advice.)

My main objection is that it assumes the dog will
be raised in the same kind of milieu as the New
Skete monastery, which is very far from accurate.

But we KNOW professora "CHIN CHUCK ABSOLUTELY
DOESN'T MEAN HIT THE DOG" gingold is likeWIZE
a LIAR and DOG ABUSER, ain't that correct, tommy.

Let's talk abHOWET your kennels, tommy. You MUST
be VERY PRHOWED of your dogs. Too bad you're SO
HUMBLE you WON'T BRAG on your own KENNEL NAME, tommy.

AIN'T IT.

> The horror. The horror.

No, the HORROR is, you're a liar and dog abusing
coward and you're AFRAID to ADMIT WHO YOU ARE.

But THAT'S IN The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Archives
from that nite you and tommy and joey got STIFF
and FORGOT to CHANGE YOUR SCREEN NAME and email
address and sent TOMMY SORONSEN'S email into US
RIGHT HERE... then you DENIED it again... despite
The Amazing Puppy Wizard TALKIN TO YOU on the phone
after HE got your number from HERE, tommy.

LIKE THIS:

From: osi...@deltaville.net (Michael Erskine)
Date: 12 Aug 2004 10:09:05 -0700
Subject: My GSD bit me.

The question:

I have a four year old male GSD. He growls at
me sometimes. When he growls at me he stares
me in the face and lays his ears back.

The New Skete books say that the dog should
not be allowed to do that. They suggest shaking
down the dog by grabing the dog on the sides of
his neck and picking him off his front feet, then
giving the dog the same sort of treatment the dog
would give another if it were challenging him.

Namely getting in the dogs face and letting the
dog know you are the alpha dog.

Well, my dog bit me clearly he felt that I was
not convincing enough or he bit me out of fear.

Anyone got ideas on what to do with this
dog that might help him to decide that he
wants to follow and that he has nothing to
fear from me?

Special aside from michael to The Amazing
Puppy Wizard:

---------------- CAVEAT -------------------------

Now HOWE, you have had your say. Just shut up and
let these other people have a chance to say something
themselves. Your name calling and insults are not necessary.

I have all the information from you I need. I also have
my OWN mind and I need to make up MY OWN MIND.

I'm sorry but I am not one of your dogs, get it?

-------------------END CAVEAT

BWEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

> --
> Handsome Jack Morrison
> *gently remove the detonator to reply by e-mail
>

Here's a few UNBIASED reviews of the BOOKS YOU SELL, tommy:

From: black...@dog-play.com
Date: 1997/12/21

Subject: Monks of New Skete - video review

Tape 1:

Although it was interesting I think it won't be
"useful" to the average person who resorts to video
tape. It did not appear to have a teaching goal
beyond a general explanation of philosophy. The
presentation was so rambling that it left a general
impression, but nothing concrete in my mind.

If you are general new to dogs or dog training I don't
think this tape will offer a flash of enlightenment.


Tape 2:

I just don't think that the average newbie is going to
look at it as say "Its important to me to find out how my
breeder raised the puppy before I got it."

As a primary source of information on puppy socialization
the tape fails except for those people who are skilled at
extracting information from the documentary format. For
many people information needs to be presented in a more
bulleted format to communicate and educate successfully.

The downside is that the person viewing the tape may
have a dog with a very different basic temperament
than the GSDs favored by the Monks.

Properly applying the techniques used to different
temperaments may take a level of sensitivity that
many novice owners lack. For that reason I think that
another video - Ian Dunbar's "Sirius Puppy Training"
was more successful in achieving a good introduction
to starting the puppy off right.

The primary caution I would give is the same as before -
the dogs used are primarily stout of temperament - some
are over rambunctious and friendly-dominent - but the
full scope of temperaments was not addressed.

All the dogs were large breeds. The methodology can be
useful to all breeds - large and small - but some adjustment
needs to be made for both size and temperament.

I don't think enough attention was given to that aspect.

So if you have a dog over say 40 pounds, and the dog is
neither fearful nor growling/biting, then this tape can
provide some useful advice and demonstration.

The timing and reactions of the Monks is a skill
that has been learned to the point that it becomes
automatic.

Although they explain what they are doing and why
in my experience it is really hard for the novice
to just see how what they are doing is different.

I know not everyone is comfortable with
the modified Koehler style promoted by
the Monks -

From: qbt...@v1.arg (Dogman)
Date: 1997/08/21
Subject: Re: Monks of New Skeet & "praise"

On a cold day in Hell, Thu, 21 Aug 1997 15:38:38 GMT,
s*.@removeme.4thcoast.com (Rebecca Allbritton) wrote:
>
> In "How to be Your Dog's Best Friend," the Monks have a
> section on praise. They advise something that I'm not sure
> I agree with them about, but I may not be thinking of it
> in the same way they are.

> What they say is that you should only "praise" when the
> dog has done something to be praised for (sit, heel, go
> to the bathroom on command, fetch, etc.)

> I can sort of understand that: I guess you want praise to
> be like a treat, & don't want it to be devalued if they can
> get it for not doing anything.

> Unfortunately, I spend a lot of time just petting my dog,
> telling her how wonderful she is, how good she is & what
> a sweetie she is, while we hang out together.

> I *like* talking to my dog while petting her, or even moving
> about the house doing other stuff. She wags her tail vigorously
> every time she sees me, but gets even happier when she hears my
> voice.

> I guess I have 2 main questions here. First, if you accept the
> idea that you shouldn't praise your dog when it hasn't "worked"
> for it, what exactly *is* praise? My dog doesn't seem able to
> distinguish between "Good Girl!" and "What a Sweetie!" when
> they're said in the same tone of voice (she wags & pants equally
> to both phrases.) Is the praise in the tone of voice, or in the
> key words? How should I talk to my dog when not "praising"?

>Or should I even worry about it?

[...]

Rebecca, I wouldn't worry about this at all, eh?

If your dog is responding well to your training (i.e.,
is performing satisfactorily), keep doing whatever it
is you're doing.

The premise behind witholding praise except for training
is simply as you have already suspected, to increase it's
EFFECT. But if your training is going well, don't let
that stop you from petting your dog, etc., when you're not
training, etc.

The same goes for food rewards (e.g., treats). To make
food more EFFECTIVE, withhold it from the dog when you're
not training and don't train your dog when he has a full
stomach. Wait until he's HUNGRY.

On the other hand, if your dog's mind starts to wander
during training and isn't responding as well as it used
to, cut out all priase except for during training and
for positive responses.

Ciao!
--
Dogman


From: dog...@i1.net (Dogman) - Find messages by this author
Date: 1999/05/12
Subject: Re: Should I correct my dog's growling?

While I was listening to the Miles Davis CD, "Kind Of Blue," and
drinking a little Booker's, on Wed, 12 May 1999 17:05:19 GMT, canis55

<*.@my-dejanews.com> wrote:

> It seems he's growling at you when "your back is turned."
> This may be the result of negative or aversion type training.
> The monks of new skeet (keepers of the alpha wolf flame),
> describe this same behavior in the latter part of they're
> popular book, How To Be Your Best Friend. They say something
> to the effect that the other wolves in the pack will always
> challenge the so called alpha male whenever he is vulnerable
> or becomes weak. Some way to live, huh?

This is just the kind of stupid, cheap shot bull
ca ca I'm always talking about.

This schmuck does absolutely *nothing* to actually help
the poster at all, he just takes shots at the Monks, pack
hierarchy theory, alpha theory, etc. (what? you don't have
any problem with the Theory of Gravity, too?), and automatically
blames this dog's "growling" on negative or aversion type training!

Yet another Kenny Freakin' King wannabe!

Hell, he'd blame cancer on the Monks if he could.

--------------------


GRAVITY IS A LAW, tommy... AIN'T IT.

BREAK IT AND YOU FALL ON YOUR ARSE EVERY TIME.

GUARANTEED.

LIKE THIS:

Here's you beatin a dog to HOWEsbreak it:

"Handsome Jack Morrison"

<*.@thedetonatorearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:spb3ivgh7prvq9omhka0bcif0tfknv6oop@4ax.com...

> On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:52:18 -0400, "Krishur"
> <kris_br...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> >Good books huh?

> Absolutely. Some are, in fact, classics.

> >Which idea was your favorite, the one where they tell you
> >to alpha roll a "dominant" dog,

> There's nothing inherently wrong with rolling a dog (i.e.,
> it *can* and *does* work in *some* situations).
> Unfortunately, most people either do it incorrectly, do it
> at the wrong time, etc.

> >or where they tell you that you didn't hit him hard enough
> >if he doesn't yelp or approaches you within 5 minutes of
> >his punishment?

> If physical discipline is deemed necessary (after careful
> evaluation), it's much more cruel not to get it over with
> quickly than it is to do it incrementally and
> half-heartedly, which usually only invites the need for even
> more discipline.

> >Maybe you liked when they recommend these beatings for
> >housebreaking accidents, chewing/destructive behavior,
> >stealing, trying to get on your bed
> >at night and dog on dog aggression.

> At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a dog. A
> swat on the rump or a check to the chin does *not*
> constitute a "beating."

> I'm sorry if you don't agree.

> And each of those behavior "problems" needs to be looked at
> in its proper context.

> A quote from the Monks:

> "We repeat, these situations may merit physical discipline.
> Since no book can pretend to analyze every individual dog
> and situation, we feel obligated to emphasize from the
> outset that discipline is never an arbitrary training
> technique to be applied to each and every dog for all
> offenses. We do, however, believe that physical and verbal
> discipline can be an effective technique. The best policy if
> you experience any of the above problems is to consult a
> qualified trainer or veterinarian for evaluation of your
> individual situation....

> "If discipline is decided upon as a training technique, it
> should be the proper technique. We feel we have developed
> several methods that depend less on violent physical force
> than timing, a flair for drama, and the element of surprise.
> We feel an obligation, as responsible trainers, to map out
> these methods, rather than simply skip the topic because it
> is unpleasant. Dog owners want to know what to do."

> In other words, physical discipline is reserved for those
> serious, special occasions when other methods have failed.

> For example, they do not recommend using physical discipline
> for *routine* housebreaking chores -- only on those rare
> occasions when an already reliably housebroken dog is (after
> careful evaluation) deemed to be soiling the house on
> purpose, backsliding, etc.

> I'll give you an actual example. Years ago, an adult dog
> was brought to me as an *incurable* house-soiler. It was
> either get the dog reliably housetrained or the dog was
> going on a one way trip to the pound. Being the kind,
> compassionate trainer that I am, I was prepared to do
> whatever it took to get this dog house-trained and save his
> life.

> After several weeks of more or less traditional training,
> and to poor result, I brought out the big guns -- physical
> and verbal discipline. Whenever the dog soiled the house
> (no, you don't even have to catch him in the act), I
> immediately (but very calmly) tossed a leash on his collar,
> dragged him to the scene of the crime, and (using a large
> chair as a prop) tethered him to the leg of the chair, with
> his nose about two inches away from the poop. After a
> couple of swats on the rump, some loud vocalizing, and a
> wait of about 20 minutes, I'd release the dog and then
> ignore him for a while. I had to repeat this process *three*
> times, I think -- and the house-soiling miraculously
> stopped. The dog went home to enjoy a long and contented
> life with his original owners, and I got to feel good about
> myself.

> So, yes, the Monk's books are good ones. Even for novices.

> Yup, that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

> -- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the detonator to
> reply via e-mail


"Handsome Jack Morrison"
<*.@thedetonatorearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:a236iv0ngp58gv9jmi818kbmk928rjcokq@4ax.com...

> On 26 Jul 2003 22:14:29 GMT, dogstar...@aol.com (DogStar716)
> wrote:

> >>>Never mind dogman :)

> >>You too? Some folks just never learn.

> >Uh huh :)

> One of the signs of mental illness is to say "Uh huh" a lot.

> >>PS: If the "trainer" you were talking about isn't on this
> >>list, he (or she) is NOT an approved Koehler trainer, no
> >>matter how loud you scream otherwise.

> >May I laugh again? LOL! One doesn't need to be on a list
> >to use Koehlers
> >methods or teach his methods.

> Let me be among the first (apparently) to tell you that not
> every trainer who uses a leash is a *Koehler* trainer.

> Sheesh.

> This person may call herself a Koehler trainer, but if she's
> hanging 12 week old puppies, she's about as far from a
> Koehler trainer as a dog trainer can possibly be.

> Again, this is just your IGNORANCE showing.

> I can call myself a devout Christian, but if I'm not
> adhering to the doctrine, I'm something else.

> >>http://www.koehlerdogtraining. com/patoflearn.html
> >Sorry, the very first sentences make me aware that whoever
> >wrote it knows nothing about PR based training:

> >"Amidst the current (and politically correct) trend in
> >Positive Reinforcement
> >Only training systems"

> >You cannot use PR only.

> Au contraire. Many, many posters to r.p.d.b. (and many
> other places as well) *claim* that they use nothing but R.
> You know, the PPers.

> And they do it quite loudly, too.

> Surely you aren't blind (and deaf), as well as ignorant?

> Those are hard handicaps to overcome, Dogstar.

> >And if you knew anything about PR BASED training, you would
> >realize that. It's not all cookies and babytalk.

> There is no stronger supporter of R than Handsome Jack
> Morrison, but I also use every behavioral tool in my bag,
> including R-, P, and P-, because I know that even R has its
> limits.

> You'd know that too, if you didn't have your head in the
> sand.

> > But that seems to be the battle cry of the Koehler-ites.

> The Koehlerites have no battle cry.

> They have behaviorism on their side, and that's more than
> enough.

> >I don't need instruction on how to give my dogs a proper
> >leash correction as I
> >do not rely on a leash to control or teach my dog.

> That may or may not be suitable for your needs, but it's not
> suitable for the majority of dog owners, especially since
> the advent of leash laws.

> Besides, after just a few weeks of proper Koehler training,
> Koehler dogs likewise are no longer in need of a leash.

> That you apparently don't know that, once again shows me
> just how ignorant of anything to do with Koehler you are.

> >My last two dogs have been trained offleash right from the
> >start, using rewards for what I like, and nothing for what
> >I don't like.

> Good for you, and if that level of training is good enough
> for you, fine. But it's not good enough for many of the
> rest of us.

> >Again, I'm not saying Koehler doesn't work.

> I really have no idea what you're saying anymore, because
> you apparently know so damn little about Koehler and
> behavioral principles in general that it's hard to have an
> informed discussion with you.

> PS: It boggles my mind at how stupid you must be to keep
> denying that those certain harsh methods are only for LAST
> RESORT situations, intended only to SAVE A DOG'S LIFE, even
> after I've repeatedly given you direct *quotes* from
> Koehler's book saying just that. It's like you don't even
> care how stupid people think you are, or how devious you
> are, etc. That can't help your cause any. You'd think that
> you'd at least want to *appear* to be honest, even if you're
> not. -
>
> - Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the detonator
> to reply via e-mail

Here, permit The Amazing Puppy Wizard to
give you a hand with that little pin, tommy...

There. That's FIXED. ENJOY!

NHOWE START WALKIN THE WALK.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >


S*@yahoo.com
2006-02-05 13:55:44 EST
I am new to this group. Yesterday I was searching Google looking for
web site about the genetics of breeding Dapple and Double Dapple
Dachshunds. (Because I was in the middle of a debate with a bunch of
breeder idiots who think it is ok to breed dapples/double dapples) Well
I came accross The Amazing Puppy Wizard and some of his emails. Just
have to say to Jerry (I think that is your name) I love you! Your
wonderful! Refreshing....I used to do Great Dane Rescue and had to quit
mainly because of dealing with arshole idiots who I got the dogs from
and then those who LIED to me and now have my dogs.
I see the ones who get upset with things that The Amazing Puppy Wizard
has to say are dumbasses who do not want to learn more humane ways to
live and teach our four legged friends that we have the honor of caring
for and looking after. It is a privalage (sp?) and a gift from God to
have these furry friends who are so forgiving when we screw up. My only
hope is that at the end those Mental case animal abusers are punished
by Him when thier time comes to an end. I always have said...maybe some
of you will be reborn as a dog and taken care of and trained by
assholes like some of you.
So to the Amazing Puppy Wizard....Your a true blessing! I look forward
to reading more of your manual and more of your posts. Your a funny
refreshing breath of fresh air.
Hey Mister....I forget your name..the one who said he put a pinch
collar on..and said it did not hurt.....why not put it on and let ME
walk you with it. Then we will see if it really hurts.
God Bless.
Steph


John Wesley
2006-02-05 15:06:35 EST
In article <1139165743.988406.47900@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
s*9@yahoo.com says...
> I am new to this group. Yesterday I was searching Google looking for
> web site about the genetics of breeding Dapple and Double Dapple
> Dachshunds. (Because I was in the middle of a debate with a bunch of
> breeder idiots who think it is ok to breed dapples/double dapples)

Would the puppies of such be only 1 and 1/2 dapple? That half a dapple
would probably screw things up huh?

jw

T*@Mail.Com
2006-02-05 22:43:10 EST
HOWEDY stephstac69,

s*9@yahoo.com wrote:
> I am new to this group.

WELCOME To The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Forums.

I'm Jerry Howe, The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >

Here's your own FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual <{) : ~ } >

<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>

> Yesterday I was searching Google looking for web site about the
> genetics of breeding Dapple and Double Dapple Dachshunds.

Perhaps you should ask Bill Nixon, a botanical geneticist "by trade"
who breeds and shows Dachsunds. You'll probably find all the info you
want through some of the links here: http://tinyurl.com/95x2n

> (Because I was in the middle of a debate with a bunch of breeder
> idiots who think it is ok to breed dapples/double dapples) Well
> I came accross The Amazing Puppy Wizard and some of his emails.

INDEEDY. The Amazing Puppy Wizard did EXXXPOSE some of HOWER self
proclaimed EXXXPERTS regarding canine genetics, particularly the
Canine Genome Project with whom professora melanie chang and dra.
karen overall are associated, dog abusers and frauds that they are.

> Just have to say to Jerry (I think that is your name) I love you!

<shyly> LikeWIZE <{): ~ ) > (The Amazing Puppy Wizard is blushing).

> Your wonderful! Refreshing....

Thank you <{); ~ ) >

> I used to do Great Dane Rescue

The Amazing Puppy Wizard grew up in a Dane kennel <{): ~ ) >

> and had to quit mainly because of dealing with arshole idiots

The industry is replete with them <{): ~ { >

The Amazing Puppy Wizard has IDENTIFIED EXXXPOSED and DISCREDITED
many of the so called RESCUE and SHELTER organizations as buffoons
liars cowards dog abusers and active acute chronic long term incurable
mental cases who hurt intimidate and murder innocent defenseless dumb
critters FOR PROFT. They are RESPONSIBLE for the EXXXCESSIVE numbers
of dogs IN "rescue" "shelters" and "foster care". Many of them are
readin HOWER posts RIGHT NHOWE <{); ~ ) >

> who I got the dogs from and then those who LIED to me

For THAT reason, The Amazing Puppy Wizard ONLY posts to PUBICLY
archived news groups. You'll SEE HOWE they LIE and contradict
themselves EVEN IN THE SAME POST!

> I see the ones who get upset with things that The Amazing Puppy Wizard
> has to say are dumbasses who do not want to learn more humane ways to
> live and teach our four legged friends that we have the honor of caring
> for and looking after.

You'll SEE those miserable lying dog abusing active acute chronic
long term incurable mental cases DO and SAY ANY THING to DEFEND
their ALLEGED RIGHT to HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER innocent defenseless
dumb critters <{); ~ ) > Just look at the choke collar thread of
yesterday and today. The Amazing Puppy Wizard AIN'T replied to
that thread YET, as HE'S waitin for it to fill HOWET and THEN HE'LL
follow up with THEIR OWN POSTED CASE HISTORIES of HURTIN INTIMIDATING
and MURDERING their own DEATHLY ILL and DEAD DOGS they've so carefully
attended to <{); ~ ) >

> It is a privalage (sp?) and a gift from God to have these furry
> friends who are so forgiving when we screw up. My only hope is
> that at the end those Mental case animal abusers are punished
> by Him when thier time comes to an end.

NO PROBLEMO. That AIN'T NUTHIN compared to what The Amazing
Puppy Wizard is fixin to do to them HERE an NHOWE <{); ~ ) >

What do you think these EXXXPERT trainers are gonna be sayin
to Jessica Lunsford's daddy and the parents of them three DEAD
boys in the trunk of the car in New Jersey when The Amazing
Puppy Wizard drops a dime on them and TELLS THEM HOWE COME the
POLICE SAR DOGS WOULDN'T FIND THEIR DEAD CHILDREN on time?

> I always have said...maybe some of you will be reborn as a
> dog and taken care of and trained by assholes like some of you.

That'll be KINDNESS compared to HOWE The Amazing Puppy Wizard
is fixin to butcher the PROFESSIONAL TRAINERS and UNIVERSITY
BEHAVIORIST who TEACH folks to bribe choke shock crate intimidate
and MURDER innocent defenseless dumb critters IN THIS LIFETIME.

> So to the Amazing Puppy Wizard....Your a true blessing!

ONLY FOR SOME OF US... the others will PAY with their careers
and reputations. HOWE do you think the professional psychology
associations are gonna FEEL abHOWET professor marshall dermer
and dr. mark plonsky of UofWI REPRESSING The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's INFORMATION they so dearly NEED?

They'll THRHOWE them the heel HOWET on their ivory covered arses.

> I look forward to reading more of your manual and more of your posts.

STUDY your own FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End
Dog Training Method Manual and share it with friend an foe alike.
Just ASK The Amazing Puppy Wizard if you need any additional
FREE HEELP <{); ~ ) >

> Your a funny refreshing breath of fresh air.

<blushing> Thank you again <{): ~ } >

> Hey Mister....I forget your name..the one who said he
> put a pinch collar on..and said it did not hurt.....

oh THAT was tommy sorenson of sorenson's Retriever and
cock fighting farm, MO, USA, aka joey finnochiario aka
gentleman jack morrison aka DOGMAN. HOWEver, the same
same has been said by most of the regular posters here
abHOWETS and the same same re: shock collars <{);~ ) >

Of curse, the pain fear force and intimidation devices
are NEVER USES while SAR dogs are SEARCHIN for LIVE bodies,
they only use treats and toys as rewards for keepin their
noses to the grHOWEND... consequently SAR dogs WON'T MAKE
THEIR FINDS on accHOWENT Of as soon as they DO make their
FIND they GO BACK IN THEIR BOXES and return to regular
shock and pronged spiked pinch choke collar and bribery
trainin... (ADIOS professional sAR trainers <{): ~ ) >)

> why not put it on and let ME walk you with it.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard has offered to BET THE FARM
that HOWER shock collar trainers WON'T wear a dual
tuned shock collar to DEMONSTRATE HOWE GENTLY the
new 100 levels of static like stimulation collars
trains dogs for all behaviors, particularly keepin their
noses on the grHOWEND while improving tracking skills...

> Then we will see if it really hurts.

We'll just let Jessica's daddy EXXXPLAIN THAT to
the dog abusing punk thug cowards who'll step up
to DEFEND themselves when The Amazing Puppy Wizard
DROPS the doGdameneD hammer on them pubicly <{); ~ ) >



From: Mike (m.bidd...@ns.sympatico.ca)
Subject: Re: Info. on the puppy wizard?
Date: 2004-07-18 14:27:02 PST

> > Oh, and did I mention his methods work, ya nuff said.
> > Mike
> Ok Mike which part worked for you?

It helped clear problems from my dogs in the
field using the can penny distraction technique.

Works like a charm.

My dogs get distracted easy from their jobs ie,
retrieving or training to find lost people, oh did
I mention that I am a Search and Rescue Team
Leader.

Sorry that slipped my mind.

I have read volumes of training books and don't
know where people get that Jerry copied others
work as I have NEVER come across his methods
before. I would like to see proof.

Just like Jerry outlined I eliminated problems one
at at time as they arose. I used to try and train to
the way I wanted them but this is backward, you
train out the problems leaving what you want left over.

Funny part is the second dog who had the same
problems as the other didn't need correcting for
some of his habits after I cleared it from the first
dog.

Seemed he learned through osmosis.

Nice side benefit there.

It nearly came to giving them up to a 3rd party
trainer as they were not performing well. The
VAST majority of working dog trainers are
agressive in their actions with the dogs.

I tried it and it didn't work and guess what I
was at my "Whits End" then someone I new
turned me onto Jerry and the rest is history.

I referred friends and families to Jerry's manual
and all have had great results. Starting puppies
out on the distraction technique is especially
good because they never develop the habit.

I had my sisters dog healing, sitting and down
stay reliably at 8-9 weeks. The first night home
following Jerrys advice we ditched the crate and
put the pup on the floor beside the bed and after
2 whimpers NOT A SOUND OUT OF THAT DOG
FOR 6 HRS! first night, that has never happened
in all my days.

Sorry, the man understands dogs its that simple.

Mike

> God Bless.

LikeWIZE <{); ~ ) >

From: TooCool (larrym...@hotmail.com)
The Puppy Wizard's Wits End Training Method

I have studied canine behavior and dog training for
years. I have a huge library that covers every system
of training.

The Puppy Wizard's (Jerry Howe's) Wits' End Training
Method is by far the most scientific, the most advanced,
the kindest, the quickest and the most effective training
method yet discovered.

It is not an assortment of training tips and tricks; it is
a logically consistent system. Every behavior problem
and every obedience skill is treated in the same logically
consistent manner.

Please study his manual carefully. Please endeavor to
understand the basis of his system and please follow
his directions exactly. His manual is a masterpiece.
It is dense with theory, with explanation, with detailed
descriptions about why behavior problems occur and
how their solution should be approached.

One should not pick and choose from among his methods
based upon what you personally like or dislike. His is
not a bag of tricks but a complete and integrated system
for not only training a dog but for raising a loving companion.

When I once said to Jerry that his system creates for
you the dog of your dreams, his response was that it
produces for your dog the owner of his dreams.

You see, Jerry has discovered that if you are gentle
with your dog then he will be gentle with you, if you
praise your dog every time he looks at you, then you
will become the center of your dogs world, if you use
Jerry's sound distraction with praise, then it takes
just minutes-sometimes merely seconds-to train your
dog to not misbehave (even in your absence) (Just 15
seconds this morning to train my 10 week old puppy to
lie quietly and let me clip his nails).

Using Jerry's scientific method (sound distraction /
praise / alteration / variation) it takes just minutes to
train you dog to respond to your commands.

What a pleasure it was for me to see my 6 week old
puppy running as fast has his wobbly little legs would
carry him in response to my recall command-and he
comes running every time I call no matter where we are
or what he is doing.

At ten weeks old now, my puppy never strains upon
his leash thanks to Jerry's hot & cold exercises and
his Family Pack Leadership exercises.

Jerry has discovered that if you scold your dog, if you
scream at him, if you intimidate him, if you hurt him,
if you force him then his natural response is to oppose
you.

Is Jerry a nut?

It doesn't make any difference to me whether he is or not.
It is a logical fallacy to judge a person's ideas based
upon their personality. As far as dogs are concerned, Jerry
wears his heart upon his sleeve. It touches him deeply when
he hears of trainers forcing, intimidating, scolding or
hurting dogs.

More than that, he knows that force is not effective
and that it will certainly lead to behavior problems;
sometime problems so severe that people put their
dogs down because of those problems.

I believe that it is natural for humans to want to control
their dog by force. Jerry knows this too. We have all been
at our wits' end, haven't we?

Dogs have a natural tendency to mimic. In scientific
literature it is referred to allelomimetic behavior. Dogs
respond in like kind to force; they respond in like kind
to praise.

Don't bribe your dog with treats; give him what he
wants most-your kind attention. Give him your praise.
You will be astonished at how your dog 's anxiety will
dissipate and how their behavior problems will dissipate
along with their anxiety.

Treat Jerry Howe's (The Puppy Wizard) Wits' End
Training Method as a scientific principle just as you
would the law of gravity and you will have astounding
success.

Dog behavior is just as scientific as is gravity.

If you follow Jerry's puppy rules you will get a sweet
little Magwai; if you don't you will surely get a little
gremlin (anyone see The Gremlins?). --Larry

> Steph

From: "Dr. Von" <drv...@mindspring.com>
Date: 12 Sep 2005 10:52:19 -0700
Subject: Re: Clicker Training for Dogs Newsgroups?

Jen wrote:
> I would love to know of one as well. If there was
> enough people interested maybe we could start one.
> I've just started clicker training my dog and have
> been doing the positive training for a while now.
> I think it's great!!
> Jen
> "artbylucy" <artbyl...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:OMudnRS23OLEc7zenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@comcast.com...
> > Hello,
> > Does anyone know of a dedicated newsgroup for
> > positive-only dog training, in particular clicker
> > training?
> > Thanks,
> > Lucy

Jen, your request for a positive only dog training list,
needs the same answer as I give the folk who ask why I
don't have a list for what I do with biofeedback.

The method is so simple, and if you adopt it and relate
to your dog in such a positive manner you won't have any
more problems and there is no need for any more technique.

With Puppies we Ph.D. psychologists have been outflanked
by the entirely practical and effective methods described
in http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u. Free download, nothing
sold, no mailing list, no distribution of your name. Free
support if needed.

With ADHD kids I provide similar information at
www.drbiofeedback.com and there is no need for
a list dealing with problems with kids. Apply
as directed and have happy healthy doggies or
kiddies.

Not difficult.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

P.S. jerk and choke, spanking, shocking, scruff shake,
choke, chin chucks, all those negatives, denial of
affection etc. are harmful, dranging, obscenities.

You might want to consider Pavlov's typology to
understand "hard and soft dogs" - essentially he
taught that there are outward and inward responding
organisms in weak and strong nervous systems and if
you grasp this firmly you'll shape your training
methods effectively.

Punishment ALWAYS deranges behavior, and so is
recommended and given only by deranged humans.

Of course, it doesn't matter if we are talking
dogs, cats, people, sheep, even husbands. Dr. Von


Subject: < BEFORE -> "Jerry, You filthy, Unctuous,
No Good Charlatan,"

< AFTER -> "Thank You Jerry For Putting Up With
A Constant Barrage Of Really Infantile
Crap At The Hands Of Supposedly Adult
Dog Lovers.

'Naive' Is Believing You Can Terrorize
A Dog Into Good Behavior," Robert Crim.

>Subject: Re: Fritz---a retrospective
>Date: 02/05/1999
>Author: Robert Crim <fritzg...@earthlink.net>
> You filthy, unctuous, no good charlatan. If you had
> any idea of what dogs and dog people were about
> you would realize the depths of the absolute loathing
> and contempt I hold for you right now. Were it not
> for the blessed distance and anonymity that the internet
> gives us from the scummy likes of you, I would probably
> be in a jail cell right now for turning you into the pile
> of shit you really are

Hey, Howe, you really are a wacko, eh?

Crim wrote this about *YOU,* you insipid piece of cow dung!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman

=====================

> On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:24:15 -0700, dogsnus

<"Terri"@cyberhighway> Wrote:>

> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> come forward and actually believe in his training manual.

Robert Crim writes:

I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope,
understood enough of the manual and it's counterparts by
John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
and use it.

This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.

The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.

To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.

Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use their real
names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.

"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.

Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.

> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
> actually admit to buying and having success with his
> little black box.

I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.

> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
> to him! LOL!

I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.

>Terri

Yes it was, and that is sad.

Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)

===========


From: Momi...@webtv.net (misty)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:29:09 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Jerry, why non-physical praise?

Beth wrote:
> So, jerry's techniques didnt' work for Peach?

Never had a chance to try them on her... I was still
using the e-fence and chains to keep her in the yard.

The suggestions I received here to keep Peach home were:
build a fence... wasn't going to happen.. we plan on
putting a modular home here within the next few years...
put more fence at the top of the pen I used so both dogs
could play bitey face w/o tangling, and similar suggestions.

Jerry was the only one to mention border training... but he
was kook supreme ;-P So I ignored him... no killfiles with
webtv.. at that time Jerry had his own troll, somewhat like
Candace, so the group was not very conducive to learning anything.

At one point I even b*tched about Jerry.

By the time I tried out Jerry's manual Peach had already
ran away.

Not very good at the google groups search but you'll find my
first post at "runaway dog message 30" within that thread
is mention of the dogs taking off and being gone for 2 days.
I stopped posting for a bit... my middle boy was devastated
that his dog was gone... Zelda came home but not her mom.

The next few posts from me were ones about/to Jerry.

Then Jerry made the WETM accessible for webbes, I put it
in my e-mail (no storage otherwise on webby unless you put
stuff on a webpage) and read it, read it and read it.

Once I understood what the concept was, I implemented it
on Zelda. It worked and I now have a great housedog!

I only regret that my own distrust of Jerry caused me to
lose another wonderful dog. Peach was an absolute gem with
little kids. I and my boys still miss her. Sometimes I
still look to see if she came home when we get back from trips.

Maybe Peach would still have ran away... I don't know
and never will....

~misty

---------------

From: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:16:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry, why non-physical praise?

Peach would be there sittin pretty had our pals not given
you a bum steer cause they're EMBARRASSED and AFRAID of
losing their careers and reputations....

Stick around, we're just startin to have FUN learning and
sharing...J;~)
---------------

"misty" <Momi...@webtv.net wrote in message news
16990-3CAB1F8...@storefull-2293.public.lawson.webtv.net...

I don't now whether Peach is dead or alive. I do know she's
not here with us. I really can't blame anyone here for her
loss.

I'm the one who ignored your advice. I did it because of
how you write/wrote. I was unwilling to accept the idea
that my using a shock collar could have any bearing on
Peach not wanting to stay home.

Up until I started using it my main concern had been
keeping my dogs in their own yard.

Once I started using the e-fence... well, then my concern
became how to keep them from running off for days on end.

I lost valuable training time becoming embroiled in the
anti-shock debate and the "Jerry sux" tirades.

I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in the world now <g>
A Wits End Trained dog, one who is completely housetrained,
doesn't chew up stuff, stays in the yard, and doesn't bark all
the time.

IOW a great companion and friend.

Thanks Jerry!

---------------

misty" <Momi...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6946-3B6337A1-329@storefull-233.iap.bryant.webtv.net.

We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring. Two
dogs, two collars We now have one dog and no collars.

Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want to come
back in the yard and would run for days.

The last time, Peach didn't come back home.

I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how to train
my dog. She is now border trained. A few minutes each day
reinforces her desire to stay in the yard.

She no longer runs out into the road, I can stop her from
chasing cats and she no longer cringes when we walk around
the yard.

I can not say loud or long enough how much I hate the
e-fence and its collars. If you can't get a regular fence
then you need to train your dog.

I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep my dog
in our yard again.

The price was too high:-( ~misty

--------------------------------

"misty" <Momi...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:12208-3BB67479-427@storefull-234.iap.bryant.webtv.net.

Hi Cathy!

Yes I used The Wits End Method to train my girl, Zelda.
You can check the archives and see I'm a real person..

I post in misc.kids.breastfeeding, alt.cats rec.pets.cats.annecdotes
(not lately, my kitty died) rec.pets.dogs.behavior rec.pets.birds and
a ton of webtv firewalled ngs.

Zelda and her mom, Peach (RB) both loved to run the
neighborhood with my neighbors 2 male dogs. An e-fence
couldn't keep them home, chains pulled up and Peach could
jump/climb a 5 ft. fence.

I wrote in here for advice and felt like Jerry had jumped
down my throat. Upon re-reading his post to me..well..it
hit home hard that I was being abusive to my dog.

The thought of shocking my dog ever again makes me
want to puke.

Like I've said before... I might not like the way Jerry
treats some of the other posters but he gave me ( for _free_)
a way to teach myself and my dog.

I can let Zelda outside and not worry that a potty break
will mean she'll be gone for 2 days or, worse yet, not ever
come home...like her mom.

Zelda stopped chewing everything in sight once I started
applying Jerry's methods. One time of "bad slipper!" and
she never chewed another one up :-D

I don't post here a lot because I don't ave any problems
needing solved. I do join in occasionally or post informative
lnks. I just feel that my limited experience precludes me
from jumping in every thread <shrug> but I do read all of them.

If you want my phone number, e-mail me. We would have to
set up a time because I'm on the webbie a lot and we only
have 1 phone line.

~misty


"Linda" <llindaleedan...@msn.com wrote in message
news:

I have been trying for the last 18 months to help my
dog who became fear aggressive at 18 month of age.
I do not know what started the problem but he came
aggressive first with dogs and then began lunging and
snapping at people. Until this time he loved everyone
and could play with any dog. He was well socialized
ad I took him with me everywhere.

At 13 months he passed the Canine Good Citizens
Test except he could let me leave him. I had used
clicker training to teach him manners and tricks but
it was not working on his aggression problem.

I took him to vets who suggested a low protein diet,
trainers who charged $800 to only make him worse.
They tried to use a prong collar and he froze, urinated
and tried to climb on my head to help him. they then
suggested a shock collar I knew this approach was not
working as he was becoming more aggressive.

I took him to an animal behaviorist with Ph. D. 400 miles
away who told me to "KEEP HIM SAFE" and read a book
on the fearful canine. I tried another trainer who tried to
use a nylon chock collar but it only made him worse.

I read hundreds of books,"CULTURE CLASH", "DOG
ARE FROM NEPTUNE", "THE OTHER END OF THE
LEASH", ETC looking for help. We finally went to Purdue
University Small Animal Behavior Clinic and they said he
had fear aggression, punishment would not work, use the
gentle leader and when out walking and he got stressed
have the people stop until he could get in control using
treats, and work on clicker training.

At that point I knew more about clicker training and using
the gentle leader than they did! Nothing was working--he
would not come when I called him and would run away when
I tried to catch him. I was afraid to walk him even in the
neighborhood as we had become that "mean dog and women who
hasn't trained her dog"

I went to four trainers in both Michigan and Florida who
were trainer/specialists in aggression and the last two
were so afraid of him they could not approach him. No one
said I should give up on him and kill him but they would
say "You have to realize he is dangerous and you are
responsible for him."

*(You got LUCKY, Linda... They coulda got Sunshine
DEAD on us. Damned near did... too.)

As last resort I tried the internet again--I had had on
going discussions with trainers from Triple Crown and Dr
Meister with out any help-and I found the ad to Doggy Do
Right and messaged Jerry to ask if this might help my dog.
He said solving the aggression problem was EZ but I could
not believe him even when I downloaded the manual.

The name of the method was right I was at my Wits End.
I had been working for 18 months!

Using the can sound three time he came, and still comes
from anywhere with the command-"comegoodboy" Next
I tried the can when walking him--when he saw a dog three
blocks away he went off-lunging and snapping-I used the
can sound and he looked at me like uhn?

I used it three more times and we got to the other dog-
-the looked at me wagging his tail--the other person
looked at me like why are shaking that can but just walked
on by.

When ever I try to explain about the sound people look at
me like "you must be out of your mind"

The results can make a believer!!!

Three weeks since beginning the Wits End Training
Manual program I walked him without the gentle leader
in a busy shopping area with many dogs.

He just seemed to not notice any one.

When people talked to him or ask his name he would
look at then and wag his tail and let then pet him.

I still can not believe the change in him--we can now
enjoy life out in public.

If I had not found the Wits End method I know there
was no hope for him and he would have hurt someone
Through all this he never growled at me, guarded his
toys or food or showed any sign of aggression with me.

My goal is to get the message out to all dog lovers that
dogs can be trained fast, easily and problems solved with
out force, pain, food or anything but sound and praise!!!!

I know most people would have given up on him a long time
ago but he was and is my life. Solving the problem was EZ
but only with the right approach-sound and praise.

I know because I tried everything else and nothing worked!!!

================================

From: Linda Daniel
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:06 AM
Subject: Re: - Re: dog aggression

Thanks for writing--I would be happy to do almost anything
to get your approach out to dog owners as I know it would
save so many lives. I know at times I was so frustrated I
thought of giving up on Sunshine but of course I never would
have but many people would have. The world just does not
know you can train a dog in just a few sessions and actually
solve problems.

We will be here until late April and we really have no plans-
-just to enjoy the warmth and sun of Florida, so any time
you could meet us would be great. I drive so I would be
happy to come to you anytime anywhere!

We went to Celebration today and two little poodles got
right into his face and he just sat there--I GOT a little
scared but he handled it just fine.--a couple of times people
would ask his name and want to pet him and he just went
to them tail wagging and rolled over for them rub his tummy.

He really just is not concerned about people passing, even
those on rollerblades! I have always used a gentle leader
in public but he spent most of time rubbing his face on the
grass--today I used his collar and he was so much happier!!

Only problem is he will stop to smell and I can not get
stopped soon enough to keep the leash loose. He never
pulled ahead of me but when he gets into smelling I have
a hard time getting him going--at times I think he could
smell a blade of grass for 10 minutes.

I can never thank you enough for giving Sunshine back!!!!!

I wrote to Purdue and told them about him being able to
walk in a crowd with out the /gentle leader and not having
a problem with other people and dogs.

I told them their advice did not work. Their advice was
to use the gentle leader at all times and when he was
around people or dogs to have him sit and reward with
treats--one really good suggestions was to have people
coming toward us stop when he got stressed or aroused
and not move until we backed away-

- can you just see me yelling at people to stop on the street
until I get his attention with treats.

They also suggested the possibility of using drugs-prozac-
but thought he was too dangerous as the drug would make
him less fearful and then he might attack or become more
sure of himself and become dominate aggressive. Just had
to share their great advice with you but I am sure you have
heard it all--even I am becoming an expert on bad advice.


Here's professor dermer ANAL-ytic BehaviorISM
Department at UofWI pryor:

From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST

And how do we know this aspect of his
advice is right?

Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.

(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
ill-mannered, or just plain ill.­),

--Marshall


Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of
Wisconsin-Milwaukee/ Milwaukee, WI 53201/ der...@uwm.edu
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
"Life is just too serious to be taken entirely seriousyl!"


From: der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer) -
Date: 1998/08/28
Subject: Re: Puppy growls and snaps

In article <6s6ea0$8c...@uwm.edu> der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu
(Marshall Dermer) writes: In article <35E60819.65178...@pilot.msu.edu>
> tami sutherland <suthe...@pilot.msu.edu> writes:

>> However, there have been incidences where she has
>> growled and snapped at us...for instance, when we
>> were trying to dry her off after bathtime.

> When your three-month old pooch growls or snaps, IMMEDIATELY
> pick her up ONLY by the skin at the back of her neck, for 5
> sec, and loudly say, "NO!" Alternatively, say "NO!" and hold
> her mouth shut for say 15 sec.

> If she so snaps that you can't do the above then you
> will have to find another way to administer a prompt
> correction, for example, throwing a can filled with
> pennies, or a tug on the collar. --Marshall


"Oops! I would start by only holing her mouth
shut for say 5 sec.

At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.

BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!

That's INSANE. Ain't it.

Here's professor dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:

"We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People Should
Come To Their Senses And Support Your Valuable Work.
God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall Dermer,
Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI.

From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<*.@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM

Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,

I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.

You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent­,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts ­to
alert the world to animal abuse.

We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.

Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?

In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.

--Marshall Dermer

----------------------------------

("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
(((' (((-((('' ((((

|\ _.-'~~""'~`'~)
/, ~-,__,,,.'~ ,-;;--''
|,4) ./ ' ; ;/'
'-~~;'@ ( ; ;
_.--'' _.-_..' .;.'
(,_..----''' (,..--''

Meow

/\_/\
(='.'=)
(")_(")

/),,/)
( ' ; ') kiss me
(,,)-(,,)

/),,/)
(' ; ') kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)

/),,/)
( ; ' ) kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)

/),,/)
( ; ) kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)

/)
( * ) and KISS ME HERE!
(,,)-(,,)

The Amazing Pussy Wizard <{@); ~ } >

<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>


Please DON'T BE The Amazing Pussy Wizard's PREY.

IT AIN'T PRETTY.

<(@}; ~ } >


T*@Mail.Com
2006-02-05 23:41:53 EST
HOWEDY janet,

Janet B wrote:
> On 5 Feb 2006 10:55:44 -0800, stephstac69@yahoo.com, clicked their
> heels and said:
>
> > My only >hope is that at the end those Mental case animal
> > abusers are punished by Him when thier time comes to an end.

Not to worry, dog lovers. The Amazing Puppy Wizard is fixin to DO
THAT RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NHOWE for the HOWEL WILD WORLD to see <{); ~ ) >

> Phew - thank goodness that there aren't any
> mental case animal abusers here except JH!

Here's you an your partner, sinofabitch, janet:

"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828.07753.00000001@mb-m18.aol.com...

> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss

"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...

> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916.10096.00001938@mb-m17.aol.com...

> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.

An INSENSITIVE DOG???

> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.

Would you like to REVIEW your own POSTED CASE HISTORY, janet?
REMEMBER HOWE estatic you was when you THOUGHT Google had LOST
it all when they bought HOWET Dejanews??? BWEEEEAHAHAHAAAA!!!

HOWE abHOWET that little DEAD DOG YOU MURDERED in "interested
in hearing"? HOWE abHOWET your "student" nessa's dog bagel
DESTROYING her HOWES and your punk thug coward pal sinofabitch
jerking and choking and shocking IT till IT TURNED ON HER and
your pal "TOO MANY NO KILL SHELTERS" nolan offering to TAKE
them to be REHOWESE??? You OBJECTED to "owner aggressive" dogs
bein REHOWESED by SHELTERS. REMEMBER NHOWE, janet? Of curse,
your pal "kind2dogs" nolan woulda MURDERED them an told nessa
that she reHOWESED them for her and they "got good HOWESES".

THAT'S the SHELTER / RESCUE business. Of curse, you got a
SHELTER you work for, don't you, janet, much like your punk
thug coward mental case pal lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn's:

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.
- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar," Lynn K.

"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs. It's a safety
necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.

<except when it is>

"So what? Whoever said that it's right to
always not confront? We sure can try, but
a dog who knows a command and growls when
given it is certainly being confrontational".
You can't simply walk away and pretend it
didn't happen or leave it for later work in
every situation."
Lynn K.
--------------------------------------

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.


"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.

Should I have refused to groom them?

Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."

Lynn K.


Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
<news:04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews>...

Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
quotes are true.

In the posts below you take responsibility for
making those calls.

In your post above, you state you do not
make those calls.

Which one is it?


"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:

"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20

g*.@my-deja.com wrote:
> How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.

Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.

"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.

Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."

8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).

If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.

This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."

> > I always have said...maybe some>of you will be reborn as
> > a dog and taken care of and trained by assholes like some of you.

Well, steph69 AIN'T SEEN NUTHIN YET, janet.

> If I had a dime for everyone who's told me that they
> would love to come back as my dog, I'd be wealthy.

You'd be pretty well off RIGHT NHOWE if your own DEATHLY ILL
animals hadn't needed intestinal surgery for swallowin your
filthy undies and your kat's CHRONIC STRESS INDUCED "SEIZURE
LIKE" behavior when she ATTACKS YOU and pisses on your dog's
beds when you PUNISH THEM, REMEMBER janet?

> I sure would - they have a great life with more
> freedoms than you can possibly imagine -

Yeah. Like your own dog who got PAINCAKED in front of
your HOWES by a speeding motorist whom YOU PAID OFF
for DAMAGING HIS CAR <{): ~ ( >

> all thanks to TRAINING!

Yeah, like YOUR TRAINING which COULDN'T CALL INDOORS your
elderly dog who COOKED HERSELF TO DEATH in 104F heat when
you had to leave for work and COULDN'T GET HER INSIDE to
enjoy the A/C, eh janet?

> > So to the Amazing Puppy Wizard....Your a true blessing!

ONLY FOR SOME OF US... the others GOTTA SUFFER <{); ~ ) >

> > I look forward to reading more of your manual and more of
> > your posts. Your a funny refreshing breath of fresh air.

> That would be "you're" - for YOU ARE,

Blame it on her gramma like HOWE you do to The Amazing Puppy
Wizard on accHOWNET of she heelps HIM with HIS SPELLIN <{);~ ) >

> but then again, he isn't.......

You mean HE AIN'T FUNNY, janet, on accHOWENT of HE IDENTIFIED
EXXXPOSED and DISCREDITED you and your lyin dog abusing punk
thug coward active acute chronic long term incurable MENTAL
CASE PALS:


"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?

> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.

> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>

From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST

Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.

Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

---------------

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day

Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.

Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's

just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14

B*.@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<*.@bellsouth.net>:

> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.

Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.

Why did you blow it?

--Matt

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????

Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?

I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918australianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.

> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."

Perhaps you and grant can talk abHOWET "Reliable Punishment Cycles,
Different Thresholds To Pain And Punishment, High Tolerance For
Correction, Escalation Of Correction To A Level Where The Dog Yelps
When You Punish Him, Thus Making The Experience One Which The Dog
Will Want To Avoid In The Future," grant teeboon, RAAF K-0 corps.

Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what would be the
> > point? Where I come from, choking is choking. It's never
> > limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
Deltones wrote:
> Rocky wrote:
> > "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com>
>
> > > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > > is choking. It's never limited.

Not so in PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING, Deltones.

> > So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> > Thank you for your contribution.
> > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

Looks like you've pushed the mental cases over the edge again...

> Well, I think you carefully avoided quoting the last part of my post.
> You know the one about a bunch of little Colonel Parker doing Elvis's
> out of their dogs? Oh right, limited choking is not abuse, and pumping
> dogs full of drugs to make them behave ain't either in your world huh?
> For the benefit of our gentle readers, here's the part you forgot to
> quote:
> ----------
> Oh, what the hell. Check out a thread started around Nov 23 called
> "Help with a Nuerotic Hound..." where I wonder if you guys are talking
> about dogs or Woody Allen's pharmacy. I'll stick with praises and noise
> distraction to train my dog, thank you.
> ----------


On 26 Jun 2005 10:52:42 -0700, lucyaa...@claque.net, wrote:

> What does the "choke" in the "choke chain" stand for, then?
> Lucy

one reason I call them slip collars. Their is a correction involved,
and while it causes momentary discomfort, does not choke the dog.
OTOH, it is CAPABLE fo being used to do that, should a situation
warrant it.
--
Janet B
----------

And here's another one from the same author,
taken from the same thread.

---------

167. Janet B
Jun 21, 12:03 pm show options
On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:40:11 +0100, "Alison"

<*.@XYZallofus2.fsnet.co.uk>, wrote:
> I'm just wondering why you had to use choke chains to train"your
> dogs especially as they are so small.

Oh geez - let's see - how many JRTs act like alligators at the end of
a leash? I personally prefer prong collars.

----------

Let's go for the hat trick with the same author, taken from the same
thread:

----------

141. Janet B
Jun 27, 10:01 pm

I don't use choke chains. Not quite true - I use a jeweler's hex link

on Franklin at times - it's puuuuuurty. I know the "sound" thing
and all, and when training a dog in a non-group setting, that sound
may be a factor, but I think it fails in the context of a group class.

So, I prefer the better fitting nylon slip collars, and very often,
pinch collars (small link unless it's a freaky dog, then they need
the milder medium link).

But I use e-collars too. With one of my dogs and with some clients.
For circumstances where a physical collar and leash is not the right
answer. I'm sure Lucy has no clue what THAT means!
--
Janet B
----------

HOWEDY janet,

Looks like you and your pals have gone totally INSANE again:

Janet B wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 14:44:14 -0500, Janet B
> <j...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com>, clicked their heels and said:
> > Since you quoted me repeatedly, where does it say I beat dogs, choke
> > dogs, scream at dogs, etc? Thanks for your clarification.
.
> responding to my own post, I had to go back and look at the original
> post, to remind myself what "we" are all accused of doing:
> "screaming, choking, shocking, pinching, beating the living crap
> out of your dogs"
> Scream? no
>
> Choke? no
>
> Shock? e-collars are a lot more sophisticated than that
> Pinch? if you want to classify a momentary discomfort by a prong
> collar, go ahead, but unless you have first hand experience with
> one, your opinion means nothing
>
> Beat the living crap out of? hardly - no hitting exists

BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!

"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.

"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack
Wouldn't Have Done It If He Thought Solo Couldn't
Take It. I Still Crate Him Because Otherwise I Fear
He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.

"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction" --Janet Boss

captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A
ResoundingSound Distraction: "When You Chuck The Dog
The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To The Ears And
Give A Popping Sound To The Dog."

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

"Reliable Punishment Cycles, Different Thresholds To Pain And
Punishment, High Tolerance For Correction, Escalation Of Correction
To A Level Where The Dog Yelps When You Punish Him, Thus Making
The Experience One Which The Dog Will Want To Avoid In The Future,"
grant teeboon, RAAF.

"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."

THAT'S sumpthin to be PR-HOWED abHOWET, eh matty?

"BethF" <b...@NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.com>
wrote in message
news:v4r8kkfr257e1a@corp.supernews.com...

Kyle, FWIW, i thought it was pretty funny,
and i often call my little dog the turd, because
he is one. Some folks think its HORRRIBLE i
would insult my dog like that so i guess its just a
matter of personality.

Kyle, the best way to teach him to stay away is to
step on him once. Seriously.

"Whatever Motivates The Dog, But I Daresay Most
Of The Dogs I Have In Classes Just Aren't That
Interested In Praise."

"BethF" <d...@alaska.com> wrote in message
news:uohnj3r4a4e85e@corp.supernews.com...

Maybe that's what we should do - hold back the dobie
girl so that Izzy can put Simon in his place.

"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness," mustang sally.

"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.

This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.

Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
Subject: Re: shock collars

Sally Hennessey <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63h8ekqiforibadrff2@4ax.com...

Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-
righteous, this post shows and absence of knowledge
in the differences in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps
a lack of ability to perceive same.

The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to
whom corrections and discomfort, even pain, were
unimportant does not mean that such dogs do not exist.

What it means is that you don't know as much about
dogs as you think you do, and you surely don't know
a damn thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.

I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with
one of her housemates; that dog had no fear or
anything, and pain incurred during a fight meant
nothing to her.

I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that
you, Alison, continue to say things to people such as
what you said to Theresa about causing her dog to
suffer (at least I guess that's what you meant by
"you cause your dog suffers" - - must be the King's
English you guys talk about over there) means that
you are an ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person
who is not worth further notice.

Sally Hennessey

"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv128jnumgmb2m27opr@4ax.com...

Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.

I'm starting to see some similarities here.

Sally Hennessey

"Janet Boss offered a pat on the back, commenting that
ultimately it wasn't Kate's decision. Whose was it? I asked.
Why, it was Teena's, averred Janet.

Janet was in an exculpatory frame of mind because she
contributed to this travesty herself, by advising Kate to
repeat the aggression trigger (grooming) on a daily basis.

It's all in the archives.

Now these two are spouting off about what kind of e-collars
they like to use on their dogs. Well, I've got an AC Delco
model that would be just right for Janet or Kate. BZZZZzzt!
I'd have to find it though, and I can't remember if I left
it in my underground bunker or the crawlspace under my
house," Charlie.

Here's janet's PARTNER:

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

sinofabitch writes:
> > What I have said- repeatedly - is that he
> > took posts from two different people,
> > took pieces of them out of context,

Of curse. QUOTED. You wanna see it in context?

> > cobbled them together,

No. There was WON DIRECT QUOTE.

> > then added his own words:

"Neatly," and "Smartly."

> > and a fake signature.

"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.

> > Which is exactly what he did.

INDEEDY. That's HOWE COME you deny it.

> > The actual quote is misleading

That so?

> > when taken out of context,

We'd been talkin abHOWET beatin the dog with a shoe...

> > and Jerry's faked "quote"

The WON sinofabitch totally DENIES.

> > is downright meaningless.

Only if you're a MENTAL CASE.

Here's Jerry's version

"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.

Here's yours:

"I dropped the leash, threw my
right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
grabbed her opposite foot with my
left hand, rolled her on her side,
leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
nipped her ear.
--Sara Sionnach

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

See? LIKE THIS:

WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day
For Twenty Years

I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-
depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50
mg of Zoloft every day.

I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to
learn more, while happily sharing pertinent
information I have learned. But if I were ever
to post such sh*t, I would hope that every other
reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we
earn the right to participate in by observing
the easily understood rules and contributing
to in constructive ways."

Lynn K.

------------------------------­­­-----------

"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."

Lynn K.
------------------------------­­­-----------

LYNN K. and LOIS E, and a BiLateral, BiPolar
conversation on Mental problems. LYNN AND LOIS
Almost 50 years on mental illness medications combined

------------------------------­­­-----------

> But I think what Lois was referring to was
> the fact that Darlene actually stated at
> some point that she was bipolar--and, IIRC,
> that meds did not work for her--so she was
> prone to major-league ups and downs and sudden
> enthusiasms..

"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."

Lynn K.
------------------------------­­­-----------

LYNN K. and the UNQUIET MIND

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/03

BoxHill wrote:
> I know I am totally off topic here, but have
> you read "The Unquiet Mind"?

Yeah. It's interesting, but kind of
watered down for the mass market, if
you know what I mean. There's really
quite a lot of good work out there and
decent research. Thank God.

Lynn K.
------------------------------­­­---------

MOTHER AND CHILD REUNION "KUCKOO!! CUCKOO!!!"

MOTHER (LOIS E.) 22 YEARS on TRICYCLICS, DAUGHTER BIPOLAR...

YOU DO THE MATH

"What's really terrific, is now days you can say proudly,
'I take anti-depressives'"

From: Gary & lois Edwards (g...@bmi.net)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/02

BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS

"I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics
for about 22 years. Been there, done that, have
the t-shirt to prove it. What's really terrific,
is now days you can say proudly,

"I take anti-depressives". Back when I started
taking them it was seen as something shameful.
If you cut your leg off, and were lying there with
a bleeding stump, you'd never let the word
depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
"You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have
any pain meds.....you could become addicted."

The good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt who's
father locked her in her room back in the twenties
because she was simple. A shame that medication
probably would have helped her live a normal life.

No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's
personality, she has a way of making grandiose
plans when at the top of her manic cycle....as
does my daughter. I wasn't saying that anyone
with problems could be counted on to be
irresponsible."

Lois E.
------------------------------­­­-----

> > Hey Mister....I forget your name..the one who said he put a pinch
> > collar on..and said it did not hurt.....why not put it on and let ME
> > walk you with it. Then we will see if it really hurts.
>
> That sounds like a threat!

You think you should REPORT her to the F.B.I., janet? She
S-HOWENS like she may be a dangerHOWES PSYCHOPATH like you
and your punk thug coward mental case pals, eh janet?

> If you knew how to USE IT PROPERLY, I'd have no problem with that,

You mean like HOWE you done for that little DEAD DOG in "interested",
janet?

> but it seems you would intend to inflict pain on your subject,

You mean like HOWE you done to "interested in hearing" and Nessa's
dogs? Or do you mean LIKE THIS when your SHOCK COLLAR AIN'T HANDY?:

"Marshall Dermer" <der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:a3h5qn$mra$1@uwm.edu...

> Di,
> I don't believe you mentioned a particular kind of
> training. If you are interested in training retrieval
> behavior than do consider our own Amy Dahl's:
> The 10-Minute Retriever : How to Make a Well-
> Mannered, Obedient and Enthusiastic Gun Dog
> in 10 Minutes a Day by John I. Dahl, Amy Dahl

You failed to mention your pals the dahls are
proven liars and dog abusers, professor "SCRUFF SHAKE:"

"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog
I Do Not Believe There Is A Single Circumstance
Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything But
Destructive," "I don't see why anyone would want
to choke or beat a dog, or how any trainer could
possibly get a good working dog by making them
unhapper, fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying
frosty dahl.

> just $17.95 at Amazon.com.
> (Also, it is best to killfile posts from the few
> regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
> ill-mannered, or just plain ill.)
> --Marshall

amy lying frosty dahl continues:

"On the other extreme, the really ard dogs
we have trained require much more frequent
and heavy application of pressure (PAIN j.h.)
to get the job done,

This is continued resistance to your increasing
authority, and the job is not done until it is overcome

Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield
the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them
more sharply

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and
the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist!
Eventually, the dog will give in

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
efforts to escaping the ear pinch

You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell
instead of your thumb even get a studded collar
and pinch the ear against that

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so
urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.

CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready
Right Hand, As it catches on, try using the stick
and no ear pinch.

When the dog is digging out to beat the stick
and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch,
you are finished

If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin,
say "No! Hold!"

(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps because
the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided
it isn't worth it)" lying frosty dahl.

"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.

terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."

lying frosty dahl sez she doesn't twist:

"None of my posts, prior to or subsequent to
Jerry Howe's attacks, encourage anyone to
twist ears, beat dogs, confront, intimidate,
frighten, or any of the crap he constantly
attributes to me," lying frosty dahl.

BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!

"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.

Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies
HURT all their lives like HOWE HOWER dog
lovers PREFER to HURT THEIR DOGS?

"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."

The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.

We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...

Sez on our FAQ'S pages at K9 Web you should
knee the dog in the chest, step on its toes, throw
him down by his ears and climb all over it like a
raped ape growling into his throat and bite IT on
his ears, or leash pop it on a pronged spiked pinch
choke collar or pop him in the snout with the heel
of your palm.

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

> by using a tool incorrectly.

Oh? You mean LIKE THIS?:
--

"It was kind of funny, in an absurd way. The rabbit
was completely still, eyes open and glazed, dried
blood in his ears and mouth, with his back legs
stiffening quickly.

It was her pet rabbit, not a wild bunny, so
that made it much harder for her.

And he was killed by bichons.

Her dogs had torn it apart. My one student who had
shown up (another weird thing about the night) and I
had to continuously check for heart and bowel sounds
for her, until she could accept that the rabbit was dead.

(The rigor mortis in his back legs she attributed to "pain").

Full moon.

Canine Action Dog Trainer
http://www.canineaction.com

> Then she mentioned the names of her dogs,
> and I immediately remembered them.

YOUR STUDENT, leah. Like that RECENT GRADUATE
STUDENT Rottie who'd been in your SOCIALIZATION
classes since IT was ten weeks old who RECENTLY
MURDERED a little innocent DEAD DOG at the park.

> I will always remember the dogs.

Yeah. You and ed w of PET LOSS dot COIN.

From: dfrntdr...@aol.comMURK-OFF (Leah)
Date: 05 Nov 2002 00:55:40 GMT
Subject: Re: The Puppy Wizard

>"Mike E" m...@egbert.com wrote:
> My question was "Is there any legitimacy to the
> harshly-worded teachings of the Puppy Wizard?"

Any legitimate advice he gives is plagiarized from
other, more coherent sources.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. :}

PetsMart Pet Trainer
See My Furry Family At:

Leah Effexor for chronic depression, in denial
about being mentally ill. Has taken
several other mentally ill medications
before settling on effexor for her chronic
mental problems. Recenly changed to
another ANTI PSYCHOTIC prescription.

"I don't think Jerry intentionally lies. I think he twists
things around in his own mind until he actually believes
what he's saying."

Jerry is the only poster here who gives dangerous
advice. Google for spike and squirt. And let's not
forget the times he's told posters whose dogs have
medical problems that his halfwits-end program could
cure them.

PetsMart Pet Trainer
My Kids, My Students, My Life

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!

> Shame on you, and off to the killfiles you go.......

INDEED? Hey janet? What are you gonna tell "Baltimore Magazine"
when The Amazing Puppy Wizard DROPS THE doGdameneD hammer on
you and they gotta print a RETRACTION of the article they done
on you, hmmm?

BWEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

You gonna tell them YOU DON'T KNOW abHOWET it on accHOWENT
of The Amazing Puppy Wizard is in your KILLFILE along with
all the DEAD DOGS you've MURDERED, janet?

> --
> Janet B
> www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
> http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAHAHAHHHHAHHHAAAAA!!!

NHOWE THAT'S SUMPTHIN TO BE PR-HOWED abHOWET, eh janet?

The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >

A DOG Is A Dog;
As A KAT Is A KAT;
As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES;
As A Mass Murderer Is A Mass Murderer.

ALL Critters Only Respond In
PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.

You GET The Critter You TRAINED

The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change,
Or They'd Not Be Scientific
And Could Not Obtain
Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Safe Effective Results
For All Handler's And All Dogs,
ALL OVER THE WHOLE WILD WORLD,
NEARLY INSTANTLY,
As Taught In Your FREE Copy Of The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY NSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual <{); ~ ) >

Damn The Descartean War of
"Nature Vs Nurture."
We Teach By HOWER Words
And Actions And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.

In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.

"The day may come when the rest of the animal creation
may acquire those rights
which never could have been withholden from them
but by the hand of tyranny.

The question is not can they REASON,
nor can they TALK,
but can they SUFFER?" -
- Jeremy Bentham

All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer

"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.

"If you've got them by the balls their
hearts and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >

Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
Animal Behavior Forensic
Sciences Research Laboratory,
BIOSOUND Scientific,
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092


<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
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<{#}: ~ } > http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>

("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
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(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
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_.--'' _.-_..' .;.'
(,_..----''' (,..--''

Meow

/\_/\
(='.'=)
(")_(")

/),,/)
( ' ; ') kiss me
(,,)-(,,)

/),,/)
(' ; ') kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)

/),,/)
( ; ' ) kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)

/),,/)
( ; ) kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)

/)
( * ) and KISS ME HERE!
(,,)-(,,)


The Amazing Pussy Wizard <{@); ~ } >


Please DON'T BE The Amazing Pussy Wizard's PREY.

IT AIN'T PRETTY.

<(@}; ~ } >


The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{TAPW} ; - ) >

ANY QUESTIONS, DUMMIES?

,-._,-,
V)"(V
(_o_) Have a great day!
/ V)
(l l l) Your Puppy Wizard. <{YPW} ; ~ } >
oo-oo


T*@Mail.Com
2006-02-06 01:00:01 EST
HOWEDY tommy sorenson of sorenson's Retrievers and cock fighting
farm, MO, USA, aka gentleman jack morrison aka joey finnochiario
aka DOGMAN,

> Note: The author of this message requested that it not be archived.
> This message will be removed from Groups in 6 days (Feb 12, 2:09 pm).

HOWE COME you want your informative posts to EXXXPIRE, tommy?
HOWE COME you WON'T admit to your real identity, tommy?
HOWE COME you WON'T tell us your kennel name, tommy?
HOWE COME you HURT INTIMIATE and MURDER innocent defenseless
dumb critters and LIE abHOWET it, tommy sorenson?

Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 14:01:20 -0500, Janet B
> <janet@bestfriendsdogobedience.com> wrote:
>
> []
> >>Hey Mister....I forget your name..the one who said he put a pinch
> >>collar on..and said it did not hurt.....why not put it on and let ME
> >>walk you with it. Then we will see if it really hurts.
> >
> >That sounds like a threat! If you knew how to USE IT PROPERLY, I'd
> >have no problem with that, but it seems you would intend to inflict
> >pain on your subject, by using a tool incorrectly. Shame on you, and
> >off to the killfiles you go.......
>
> Yep.

You think KILLFILING the INFORMATION abHOWET yourself is
gonna HIDE YOU and HOWE YOU HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER
innocent defenseless dumb critters from J.Q. Pubic, tommy?

> You can probably still hear the sound of the
> splash when I dumped her in mine.

Yeah. It splashed ALL OVER the HOWEL WILD WORLD, tommy.

> I suppose I could have challenged her in return,

You think so? You mean like HOWE janet done, tommy?

> to allow me to shove her treat bag up her ass,

That's NICE TALK for a family news group, tommy. Perhaps
THAT'S HOWE COME you're an anonymHOWES COWARD, eh tommy?

Oh, bye the bye tommy, The Amazing Puppy Wizard DOES NOT
endorse the use of "treats" "bribes" or physical rewards
on accHOWENT of THAT'S HOWE COME dogs FAIL TO PERFORM and
THAT'S HOWE COME you gotta SHOCK CHOKE an MURDER them, tommy.

> or her clicker down her throat,

LikeWZIZE the clicker, tommy. karen pryor MURDERED her own
DEAD KAT on accHOWENT of she COULDN'T clicker train IT not
to shit an piss in her stovetop, REMEMBER tommy?

> and then ask her how she liked THAT,

It kinda depends on HOWE you do it, tommy. You just gotta know HOWE.

> but that would have been too easy.

Perhaps, tommy. Perhaps you'd like to talk abHOWET all the
DOG YOU'VE SAVED from the needle, like laura arlov's and
Robert Crim's DEAD DOGS Chewie and Fritz The DEAD WONder Dog?

LIKE THIS:


Subject: < BEFORE -> "Jerry, You filthy, Unctuous,
No Good Charlatan,"

< AFTER -> "Thank You Jerry For Putting Up With
A Constant Barrage Of Really Infantile
Crap At The Hands Of Supposedly Adult
Dog Lovers.

'Naive' Is Believing You Can Terrorize
A Dog Into Good Behavior," Robert Crim.

>Subject: Re: Fritz---a retrospective
>Date: 02/05/1999
>Author: Robert Crim <fritzg...@earthlink.net>
> You filthy, unctuous, no good charlatan. If you had
> any idea of what dogs and dog people were about
> you would realize the depths of the absolute loathing
> and contempt I hold for you right now. Were it not
> for the blessed distance and anonymity that the internet
> gives us from the scummy likes of you, I would probably
> be in a jail cell right now for turning you into the pile
> of shit you really are

Hey, Howe, you really are a wacko, eh?

Crim wrote this about *YOU,* you insipid piece of cow dung!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman

=====================

> On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:24:15 -0700, dogsnus

<"Terri"@cyberhighway> Wrote:>

> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> come forward and actually believe in his training manual.

Robert Crim writes:

I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope,
understood enough of the manual and it's counterparts by
John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
and use it.

This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.

The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.

To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.

Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use their real
names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.

"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.

Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.

> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
> actually admit to buying and having success with his
> little black box.

I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.

> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
> to him! LOL!

I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.

>Terri

Yes it was, and that is sad.

Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)

===========

Crim wrote THAT about *YOU,* tommy,
"you insipid piece of cow dung!"

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


HOWEDY laura,

"Laura Arlov" <l...@remove.three.nodes.wordfixers.no>
wrote in message news:bB59b.4081$P51.5910@amstwist00...

> > I wrote:
> > : I will always be grateful to those trainers for
> > : helping ME adjust MY attitude...

From: Laura Arlov (l...@wordfixers.no)
Subject: Re: Chewie bit my husband !

Date: 1999/01/20

Well, we're doing as you say Dogman,
and I'll keep you all posted.

------------------------------

You mean, your attitude abHOWET KILLIN DOGS?

> > : Melanie seems to have understood and
> > : appreciated Solo from the beginning,

That so? melanie has ABUSED Solo since day WON.

> > : but I needed the help of the trainers to see my
> > : dog in a positive light.

You mean, DEAD?

> "Melanie L Chang" wrote:

> > Oh, that's not true at all. I spent the first few
> > weeks hoping someone would take Solo from
> > me and trying to find a rescue with space for him.

> > http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~mlchang/sologot.html

> Oh, I see, Melanie, thanks for the link.

Does she have the beatin Solo in the face with
her shepherd's crook there?

> I've only been hanging around the last couple of months,

You mean, since HOWER DOG LOVERS helped you
MURDER your dog Chewie.

From: Laura Arlov (l...@wordfixers.no)
Subject: Re: Chewie bit my husband !

Date: 1999/01/20

Well, we're doing as you say Dogman,
and I'll keep you all posted.

------------------------------

> so I hadn't realised what a rocky start you two had.

"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know
Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If He Thought Solo
Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.

You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN
SHY" dog to be BEATEN by a strange male trainer
is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR for a DOG LOVER?

> Is Solo's history before you got him unknown?

Solo was a kennel dog pryor to mental melanie abusing
him. Since gettin him Solo has been on psychotropic
drugs and treatment at the UofPA behavior clinic for three
years, with little success, EXXXCEPT when melanie boarded
IT at the kennel while she was away in Europe, he was taken
off drugs and was NORMAL, till melanie returned and began
his ritual abuse again.

> Laura

From: "The Amazing Puppy Wizard"
Date: 26 Jan 2005 15:40:29 -0800

Subject: Re: dominance issue

Geez tommy, too bad you don't tough it HOWET
with mauijnp till she MURDERS her dog like
HOWE you done for kwbrown, Robert Crim, tara
o. aka tee and laura arlov, to name just
a FEW of the DEAD DOGS you've SUCCESSFULLY
TRAINED by teaching their people to HURT them.

You KNOW HOWE "Dogs ABHOR leadership vacuums!"

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHHAAAA!!!

The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >

Here's HOWE COME laura KILLED her own
DEAD DOG Chewie for TURNING ON HER:

From: Laura Arlov (l...@wordfixers.no)
Subject: Re: Chewie bit my husband !

Date: 1999/01/20
Well, we're doing as you say Dogman,
and I'll keep you all posted.

------------------------------

> Laura in Oslo

You're quite the dog enthusiast, eh laura?

> The listener,

You didn't WANT to listen to The Puppy Wizard when
HE told you you couldn't PUNISH and INTIMIDATE your
dog or you'd make IT aggressive.

> the observer.

NHOWE you got a DEAD DOG HOWETA it.

> We do work were you sometimes have to observe people

Like laura, MURDERING her dog...

> and take notes.

INDEEDY!

> B. has amazing powers of observation and concentration.

RIGHT...

> Laura and Angel in Oslo

"Feisty, Humorous, Brave, Curious And
Playful. Full Of "Joie de Vivre," And DEAD.

Date: 2003-10-29 23:49:52 PST
HOWEDY People,

Here's HOWE COME laura arlov KILLED her "Feisty,
Humorous, Brave, Curious And Playful. Full Of "Joie
de Vivre," And DEAD DOG Chewie:

From: Dogman (dog...@i1.net)
Subject: Re: Dogman advocates dogs biting people
Date: 1999/04/25

While I was listening to the Miles Davis CD, "Kind Of
Blue," and drinking a little Booker's, on 24 Apr 1999
22:47:09 GMT, brokens...@aol.com (Brokenseat) wrote

> Was that a SERIOUS ENOUGH bite for you dogman,
> or was it insignificant? Why would you suggest getting
> a book or obediance, is there no bite SERIOUS enough
> for you?

Yes, there are, but this one was *caused* by the actions
of a very, very STUPID human being, someone much like
yourself.

And it only hapopened ONCE.

And there are many, many dogs out there today
living perfectly normal and honorable lives who,
upon having done to them what was done to
this dog ("Chewie"), would also bite.

I mean, how stupid can one person get?

Don't answer that yet, Broke, you're setting a new
record almost everyday.

Here's what the owner's husband did (and precisely
what caused the bite), just in case you forgot:

> (My husband was holding Chewie's head and looking
> him in the eye and yelling at him, and Chewie growled
> louder and louder and louder and then bit my husband.)

I wonder just how many dogs out there wouldn't at
least be tempted to bite some stupid idiot for doing
that to him?

I include below the entire post for viewers reading
pleasure, and so they can take everything I said in
its proper *context.*

PS: I'd be willing to wager a large amount of money
that this particular dog will never bite this guy again,
provided:

1.) The family gives this dog some OBEDIENCE training.

2.) The guy refrains from doing really STUPID things to the dog.

3.) The guy PARTICIPATES in the training.

4.) They have a professional ASSESS the dog.

Putting this dog down simply for doing the
above is UNCONSCIONABLE.

This dog needs to be assessed, in person, by a knowledgeable
trainer/behaviorist before any action is even considered.

>>>>Now yesterday morning, Chewie lost his temper with my
>>>>husband and bit him, hard. (Deep puncture, lots of blood,
>>>>docot visit, tetanus shot, antibiotics, the whole shooting
>>>>match)
>
>>>Dogman's words of wisdom:
>
>>> You need to get a book on recognizing animal
>>> behavior ***(I have some listed on my web site)***,
>>> and you need to get your husband (and children, if
>>> they're old enough) involved in the OBEDIENCE
>>> training of this dog.

>>> WRONG. You need to cull. Do not give that dog a
>>> second chance to bite someone and draw blood
>>> another time, like your childs face...

>>> Broke Egoman and his dangerous advice should be ignored.

Doofuses are always welcome to ignore my advice,
after all, that's why they remain doofuses, eh?

********************

Beginning of the actual post, before Broke selectively snipped:
Upon my return to the Cuckoo's Nest,
Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:22:09 ?,

"Laura Arlov" <l...@wordfixers.no> says:

[...]

>We have an 18 month old male Airedale Terrier,
>Chewbacca (Chewie). He's entire -- and I might as well
>tell you right now it's not legal to neuter male dogs in
>Norway for anything other than medical reasons, so he'll
> probably be staying that way.

That's too bad, because neutering might help (of course,
it might not help, either).

FYI, 95% of stallions (horses) in America are neutered.

That's right, only 5% of horses are responsible for breeding.

Why?

Have you ever been on a ranch or farm where there
were a lot of stallions living together?

If you had, you'd understand why 95% of them get
their *tools* taken away at an early age!

The same thing goes for dogs to a great extent.

> Now yesterday morning, Chewie lost his temper with my
> husband and bit him, hard. (Deep puncture, lots of blood,
> docot visit, tetanus shot, antibiotics, the whole shooting match)
> I have no trouble seeing how this incident is a result
> of Chewie's age and hormones, and mistakes that we
> have made.
>
> He's our first dog. before we got him I read that Airedale
> males could be a pretty tough proposition, so I've been
> working actively with Chewie and settring limits for him
> all his life, and he respects me.

But he doesn't respect your hubbie, does he?
Otherwise this would never have happened.

You're right, Airedales are TOUGH dogs, just like
virtually any *terrier.*

>My son and husband mostly pet him and play with him.

That's part of your problem I think. Your husband has
fallen in the pecking order to an EQUAL. That is, your
dog sees your husband as an equal, perhaps even an
inferior, and that's what the growling, etc., were all about.

> Now that Chewie is trying to improve his position
> in our family flock by defying my husband, my husband
> is all of the sudden trying to put his foot down and discipline
> Chewie...

This putting-down-of-the-foot cannot take place quickly.
It will have to develop over time.

But the best way to accelerate it is to have your husband
start to take over the OBEDIENCE training of your dog,
and he needs a lot more of it, Laura.

No dog of mine would ever even think about growling
at me, much less ever bite me. Or any member of my
family, the dog's pack.

Because I've made them all realize, early on,
that all humans are higher in status to them.

And their OBEDIENCE training is *ongoing,*
therefore it's constantly reinforced.

Dogs ABHOR leadership vacuums!

> (My husband was holding Chewie's head and looking
> him in the eye and yelling at him, and Chewie growled
> louder and louder and louder and then bit my husband.)

You need to get a book on recognizing animal behavior
(I have some listed on my web site), and you need to get
your husband (and children, if they're old enough) involved
in the OBEDIENCE training of this dog.

Otherwise you're likely to have *much* more serious
problems down the road.

> So, we did exactly what the experts on this ng usually
> advise: we called a really good dog training organization
> (where Chewie and I did basic training) and they will be
> sending one or maybe two instructors to observe as all
> at home, help us to understand our dog, and help us with
> home routines and training to straighten this out.

This will really help, I'm sure. They'll want to observe
and understand your pack's "dynamics."

Then they can show you some things that will allow
your husband to assume a more dominant role in the
dog's pack.

> While we're waiting for our first appointment, we're
> supposed to write down our own impressions of Chewie's
> behavior both around the bite and otherwise. And it is clear
> that he feels he came out of the encounter "a bigger man."

You bet. That's why an ounce of PREVENTION is
always worth a pound of CURE.

Especially when it comes to reinforcement of canine behavior.

> Yesterday and today he has gone nuts in the backseat
> of the car when somebody walked by with a male dog...
> and when he pees, he lifts his leg so high he fell over
> twice today.

Yup. This dog needs some intensive OBEDIENCE
training, in my opinion.

But it usually takes an on-site OBSERVATION to
make an accurate assessment of your situation.

> I feel pretty badly about this...sad, I guess.
> He's a great little dog.

He's not so "little," eh?

> Feisty, humorous, brave, curious and playful. Full of
> "joie de vivre" Not outstandlingly intelligent, but shrewd.
> Charming, when he wants to be. I feel like he's really
> blotted his copy books seriously, and I sure see how a
> lot of the responsibility for this is ours.

You're got the right attitude, Laura. Almost all canine behavior
"problems" are created (and reinforced) by us humans.

> Stay tuned, and see how it goes as we try to
> straighten out this dog -- and, maybe more
> importantly, his owners!

I will, and I hope you will, indeed, let us
know how this works out!

Good luck!

-Dogman
d*.@i1.net

Dogman's Den
http://www.i1.net/~dogman

"One four minute session of obedience work,
done properly, will prevent behavior problems
for 48-72 hours. It's in the manual."
Jerry "Moonbeam" Howe

===============

Dog trainin AIN'T LUCK, tommy. "Luck is for SUCKERS,"
The Puppy Wizard's DADDY <{); ~ ) >

You and your pals HURT and KILL dogs and LIE abHOWET IT.

> Better to just plop these bimbos in the bin.

INDEEDY, tommy. HOWEver, not pryor to readin YOU BEATIN
dogs to HOWEsbreak them to SAVE THIR LIVES, eh tommy?

No, the HORROR is, you're a liar and dog abusing
coward and you're AFRAID to ADMIT WHO YOU ARE.

But THAT'S IN The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Archives
from that nite you and tommy and joey got STIFF
and FORGOT to CHANGE YOUR SCREEN NAME and email
address and sent TOMMY SORONSEN'S email into US
RIGHT HERE... then you DENIED it again... despite
The Amazing Puppy Wizard TALKIN TO YOU on the phone
after HE got your number from HERE, tommy.

From: osi...@deltaville.net (Michael Erskine)
Date: 12 Aug 2004 10:09:05 -0700
Subject: My GSD bit me.

The question:

I have a four year old male GSD. He growls at
me sometimes. When he growls at me he stares
me in the face and lays his ears back.

The New Skete books say that the dog should
not be allowed to do that. They suggest shaking
down the dog by grabing the dog on the sides of
his neck and picking him off his front feet, then
giving the dog the same sort of treatment the dog
would give another if it were challenging him.

Namely getting in the dogs face and letting the
dog know you are the alpha dog.

Well, my dog bit me clearly he felt that I was
not convincing enough or he bit me out of fear.

Anyone got ideas on what to do with this
dog that might help him to decide that he
wants to follow and that he has nothing to
fear from me?

Special aside from michael to The Amazing
Puppy Wizard:

---------------- CAVEAT -------------------------

Now HOWE, you have had your say. Just shut up and
let these other people have a chance to say something
themselves. Your name calling and insults are not necessary.

I have all the information from you I need. I also have
my OWN mind and I need to make up MY OWN MIND.

I'm sorry but I am not one of your dogs, get it?

-------------------END CAVEAT

BWEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

> --
> Handsome Jack Morrison
> *gently remove the detonator to reply by e-mail

Here's a few UNBIASED reviews of the BOOKS YOU SELL, tommy:

From: black...@dog-play.com
Date: 1997/12/21

Subject: Monks of New Skete - video review

Tape 1:

Although it was interesting I think it won't be
"useful" to the average person who resorts to video
tape. It did not appear to have a teaching goal
beyond a general explanation of philosophy. The
presentation was so rambling that it left a general
impression, but nothing concrete in my mind.

If you are general new to dogs or dog training I don't
think this tape will offer a flash of enlightenment.

Tape 2:

I just don't think that the average newbie is going to
look at it as say "Its important to me to find out how my
breeder raised the puppy before I got it."

As a primary source of information on puppy socialization
the tape fails except for those people who are skilled at
extracting information from the documentary format. For
many people information needs to be presented in a more
bulleted format to communicate and educate successfully.

The downside is that the person viewing the tape may
have a dog with a very different basic temperament
than the GSDs favored by the Monks.

Properly applying the techniques used to different
temperaments may take a level of sensitivity that
many novice owners lack. For that reason I think that
another video - Ian Dunbar's "Sirius Puppy Training"
was more successful in achieving a good introduction
to starting the puppy off right.

The primary caution I would give is the same as before -
the dogs used are primarily stout of temperament - some
are over rambunctious and friendly-dominent - but the
full scope of temperaments was not addressed.

All the dogs were large breeds. The methodology can be
useful to all breeds - large and small - but some adjustment
needs to be made for both size and temperament.

I don't think enough attention was given to that aspect.

So if you have a dog over say 40 pounds, and the dog is
neither fearful nor growling/biting, then this tape can
provide some useful advice and demonstration.

The timing and reactions of the Monks is a skill
that has been learned to the point that it becomes
automatic.

Although they explain what they are doing and why
in my experience it is really hard for the novice
to just see how what they are doing is different.

I know not everyone is comfortable with
the modified Koehler style promoted by
the Monks -

From: qbt...@v1.arg (Dogman)
Date: 1997/08/21
Subject: Re: Monks of New Skeet & "praise"

On a cold day in Hell, Thu, 21 Aug 1997 15:38:38 GMT,
s*.@removeme.4thcoast.com (Rebecca Allbritton) wrote:

> In "How to be Your Dog's Best Friend," the Monks have a
> section on praise. They advise something that I'm not sure
> I agree with them about, but I may not be thinking of it
> in the same way they are.
>
> What they say is that you should only "praise" when the
> dog has done something to be praised for (sit, heel, go
> to the bathroom on command, fetch, etc.)
>
> I can sort of understand that: I guess you want praise to
> be like a treat, & don't want it to be devalued if they can
> get it for not doing anything.
>
> Unfortunately, I spend a lot of time just petting my dog,
> telling her how wonderful she is, how good she is & what
> a sweetie she is, while we hang out together.
>
> I *like* talking to my dog while petting her, or even moving
> about the house doing other stuff. She wags her tail vigorously
> every time she sees me, but gets even happier when she hears my
> voice.
>
> I guess I have 2 main questions here. First, if you accept the
> idea that you shouldn't praise your dog when it hasn't "worked"
> for it, what exactly *is* praise? My dog doesn't seem able to
> distinguish between "Good Girl!" and "What a Sweetie!" when
> they're said in the same tone of voice (she wags & pants equally
> to both phrases.) Is the praise in the tone of voice, or in the
> key words? How should I talk to my dog when not "praising"?
> Or should I even worry about it?

[...]

Rebecca, I wouldn't worry about this at all, eh?

If your dog is responding well to your training (i.e.,
is performing satisfactorily), keep doing whatever it
is you're doing.

The premise behind witholding praise except for training
is simply as you have already suspected, to increase it's
EFFECT. But if your training is going well, don't let
that stop you from petting your dog, etc., when you're not
training, etc.

The same goes for food rewards (e.g., treats). To make
food more EFFECTIVE, withhold it from the dog when you're
not training and don't train your dog when he has a full
stomach. Wait until he's HUNGRY.

On the other hand, if your dog's mind starts to wander
during training and isn't responding as well as it used
to, cut out all priase except for during training and
for positive responses.

Ciao!
--
Dogman

From: dog...@i1.net (Dogman) - Find messages by this author
Date: 1999/05/12
Subject: Re: Should I correct my dog's growling?

While I was listening to the Miles Davis CD, "Kind Of Blue," and
drinking a little Booker's, on Wed, 12 May 1999 17:05:19 GMT, canis55

<*.@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
> It seems he's growling at you when "your back is turned."
> This may be the result of negative or aversion type training.
> The monks of new skeet (keepers of the alpha wolf flame),
> describe this same behavior in the latter part of they're
> popular book, How To Be Your Best Friend. They say something
> to the effect that the other wolves in the pack will always
> challenge the so called alpha male whenever he is vulnerable
> or becomes weak. Some way to live, huh?

This is just the kind of stupid, cheap shot bull
ca ca I'm always talking about.

This schmuck does absolutely *nothing* to actually help
the poster at all, he just takes shots at the Monks, pack
hierarchy theory, alpha theory, etc. (what? you don't have
any problem with the Theory of Gravity, too?), and automatically
blames this dog's "growling" on negative or aversion type training!

Yet another Kenny Freakin' King wannabe!

Hell, he'd blame cancer on the Monks if he could.

--------------------

GRAVITY IS A LAW, tommy... AIN'T IT.

BREAK IT AND YOU FALL ON YOUR ARSE EVERY TIME.

GUARANTEED.

LIKE THIS:

Here's lyingdogDUMMY BEATIN a dog to HOWEsbreak IT.

But FIRST, a little good KOEHLER trainin:

Koehler On Correcting The Housebreaking
Backslider.

"If the punishment is not severe enough, some of
these "backsliders" will think they're winning and
will continue to mess in the house.

An indelible impression can sometimes be
made by giving the dog a hard spanking of long
duration, then leaving him tied by the mess he's
made so you can come back at twenty minute
intervals and punish him again for the same
thing. (Dogs are REALLY stupid. J.H.)

In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment. It will be better for your dog,
as well as the house, if you really pour it on him."

"Housebreaking Problems:

"The Koehler Method of Dog Training"
Howell Book House, 1996"

Occasionally, there is a pup who seems determined to
relieve himself inside the house, regardless of how
often he has the opportunity to go outside. This dog
may require punishment.

Make certain he is equipped with a collar
and piece of line so he can't avoid correction.

When you discover a mess, move in fast, take him to
the place of his error, and hold his head close enough
so that he associates his error with the punishment.

Punish him by spanking him with a light strap or
switch. Either one is better than a folded newspaper.

It is important to your future relationship that you
do not rush at him and start swinging before you get
hold of him.

When he's been spanked, take him outside.
Chances are, if you are careful in your feeding
and close observation, you will not have to do
much punishing.

Be consistent in your handling.

To have a pup almost house-broken and then force
him to commit an error by not providing an opportunity
to go outside is very unfair. Careful planning will
make your job easier.

The same general techniques of housebreaking
apply to grown dogs that are inexperienced in the
house.

For the grown dog who was reliable in the house
and then backslides, the method of correction
differs somewhat.

In this group of "backsliders" we have the
"revenge piddler." This dog protests being alone by
messing on the floor and often in the middle of a bed.

The first step of correction is to confine the dog
closely in a part of the house when you go away, so
that he is constantly reminded of his obligation.

The fact that he once was reliable in the house is
proof that the dog knows right from wrong, and it
leaves you no other course than to punish him
sufficiently to convince him that the satisfaction of
his wrongdoing is not worth the consequences.

If the punishment is not severe enough, some of
these "backsliders" will think they're winning and
will continue to mess in the house.

An indelible impression can sometimes be made
by giving the dog a hard spanking of long duration,
then leaving him tied by the mess he's made so you
can come back at twenty minute intervals and
punish him again for the same thing.

In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment.

It will be better for your dog, as well as the house,
if you really pour it on him.

"Handsome Jack Morrison"
<*.@thedetonatorearthlink.net> wrote in
<message
news:a236iv0ngp58gv9jmi818kbmk928rjcokq@4ax.com...
> On 26 Jul 2003 22:14:29 GMT, dogstar...@aol.com
> (DogStar716)
wrote:
>
> >>>Never mind dogman :)
> >>
> >>You too? Some folks just never learn.
> >
> >Uh huh :)
>
> One of the signs of mental illness is to say "Uh
> huh" a lot.
>
> >>PS: If the "trainer" you were talking about isn't
> >>on this list, he (or she) is NOT an approved
> >>Koehler trainer, no matter how loud you scream
> >>otherwise.
> >
> >May I laugh again? LOL! One doesn't need to be on
> >a list to use Koehlers methods or teach his
> >methods.
>
> Let me be among the first (apparently) to tell you
> that not every trainer who uses a leash is a
> *Koehler* trainer.
>
> Sheesh.
>
> This person may call herself a Koehler trainer, but
> if she's hanging 12 week old puppies, she's about as
> far from a Koehler trainer as a dog trainer can
> possibly be.
>
> Again, this is just your IGNORANCE showing.
>
> I can call myself a devout Christian, but if I'm not
> adhering to the doctrine, I'm something else.
>
> >>http://www.koehlerdogtraining.com/patoflearn.html
> >Sorry, the very first sentences make me aware that
> >whoever wrote it knows nothing about PR based
> >training:
> >
> >"Amidst the current (and politically correct) trend
> >in Positive Reinforcement Only training systems"
> >
> >You cannot use PR only.
>
> Au contraire. Many, many posters to r.p.d.b. (and
> many other places as well) *claim* that they use
> nothing but R. You know, the PPers.
>
> And they do it quite loudly, too.
>
> Surely you aren't blind (and deaf), as well as
> ignorant?
>
> Those are hard handicaps to overcome, Dogstar.
>
> >And if you knew anything about PR BASED training,
> >you would realize that. It's not all cookies and
> >babytalk.
>
> There is no stronger supporter of R than Handsome
> Jack Morrison, but I also use every behavioral tool
> in my bag, including R-, P, and P-, because I know
> that even R has its limits.
>
> You'd know that too, if you didn't have your head in
> the sand.
>
> > But that seems to be the battle cry of the
> > Koehler-ites.
>
> The Koehlerites have no battle cry.
>
> They have behaviorism on their side, and that's more
> than enough.
>
> >I don't need instruction on how to give my dogs a
> >proper leash correction as I do not rely on a leash
> >to control or teach my dog.
>
> That may or may not be suitable for your needs, but
> it's not suitable for the majority of dog owners,
> especially since the advent of leash laws.
>
> Besides, after just a few weeks of proper Koehler
> training, Koehler dogs likewise are no longer in
> need of a leash.
>
> That you apparently don't know that, once again
> shows me just how ignorant of anything to do with
> Koehler you are.
>
> >My last two dogs have been trained offleash right
> >from the start, using rewards for what I like, and
> >nothing for what I don't like.
>
> Good for you, and if that level of training is good
> enough for you, fine. But it's not good enough for
> many of the rest of us.
>
> >Again, I'm not saying Koehler doesn't work.
>
> I really have no idea what you're saying anymore,
> because you apparently know so damn little about
> Koehler and behavioral principles in general that
> it's hard to have an informed discussion with you.
>
> PS: It boggles my mind at how stupid you must be to
> keep denying that those certain harsh methods are
> only for LAST RESORT situations, intended only to
> SAVE A DOG'S LIFE, even after I've repeatedly given
> you direct *quotes* from Koehler's book saying just
> that. It's like you don't even care how stupid
> people think you are, or how devious you are, etc.
> That can't help your cause any. You'd think that
> you'd at least want to *appear* to be honest, even
> if you're not. -- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently
> remove the detonator to reply via e-mail

"Handsome Jack Morrison"
<*.@thedetonatorearthlink.net> wrote in
<message
news:spb3ivgh7prvq9omhka0bcif0tfknv6oop@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:52:18 -0400, "Krishur"
> <kris_br...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Good books huh?
>
> Absolutely. Some are, in fact, classics.
>
> >Which idea was your favorite, the one where they
> >tell you to alpha roll a "dominant" dog,
>
> There's nothing inherently wrong with rolling a dog
> (i.e., it *can* and *does* work in *some*
> situations). Unfortunately, most people either do it
> incorrectly, do it at the wrong time, etc.
>
> >or where they tell you that you didn't hit him hard
> >enough if he doesn't yelp or approaches you within
> >5 minutes of his punishment?
>
> If physical discipline is deemed necessary (after
> careful evaluation), it's much more cruel not to get
> it over with quickly than it is to do it
> incrementally and half-heartedly, which usually only
> invites the need for even more discipline.
>
> >Maybe you liked when they recommend these beatings
> >for housebreaking accidents, chewing/destructive
> >behavior, stealing, trying to get on your bed
> >at night and dog on dog aggression.
>
> At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
> dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
> *not* constitute a "beating."
>
> I'm sorry if you don't agree.
>
> And each of those behavior "problems" needs to be
> looked at in its proper context.
>
> A quote from the Monks:
>
> "We repeat, these situations may merit physical
> discipline. Since no book can pretend to analyze
> every individual dog and situation, we feel
> obligated to emphasize from the outset that
> discipline is never an arbitrary training
> technique to be applied to each and every dog for
> all offenses. We do, however, believe that physical
> and verbal discipline can be an effective technique.
> The best policy if you experience any of the above
> problems is to consult a qualified trainer or
> veterinarian for evaluation of your individual
> situation....
>
> "If discipline is decided upon as a training
> technique, it should be the proper technique. We
> feel we have developed several methods that depend
> less on violent physical force than timing, a flair
> for drama, and the element of surprise.
> We feel an obligation, as responsible trainers, to
> map out
> these methods, rather than simply skip the topic
> because it is unpleasant. Dog owners want to know
> what to do."
>
> In other words, physical discipline is reserved for
> those serious, special occasions when other methods
> have failed.
>
> For example, they do not recommend using physical
> discipline for *routine* housebreaking chores --
> only on those rare occasions when an already
> reliably housebroken dog is (after careful
> evaluation) deemed to be soiling the house on
> purpose, backsliding, etc.
>
> I'll give you an actual example. Years ago, an
> adult dog was brought to me as an *incurable*
> house-soiler. It was either get the dog reliably
> housetrained or the dog was going on a one way trip
> to the pound. Being the kind, compassionate trainer
> that I am, I was prepared to do whatever it took to
> get this dog house-trained and save his life.
>
> After several weeks of more or less traditional
> training, and to poor result, I brought out the big
> guns -- physical and verbal discipline. Whenever the
> dog soiled the house (no, you don't even have to
> catch him in the act), I immediately (but very
> calmly) tossed a leash on his collar, dragged him to
> the scene of the crime, and (using a large
> chair as a prop) tethered him to the leg of the
> chair, with his nose about two inches away from the
> poop. After a couple of swats on the rump, some
> loud vocalizing, and a wait of about 20 minutes, I'd
> release the dog and then ignore him for a while. I
> had to repeat this process *three* times, I think --
> and the house-soiling miraculously stopped. The dog
> went home to enjoy a long and contented life with
> his original owners, and I got to feel good about
> myself.
>
> So, yes, the Monk's books are good ones. Even for
> novices.
>
> Yup, that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.
>
> -- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the
> detonator to reply via e-mail

> --
>
> Handsome Jack Morrison
> *gently remove the detonator to reply by e-mail

Permit The Amazing Puppy Wizard to give you a hand
with that tricky little pin, eh tommY? Here, hold
this... Adios, tommy <{): ~ ) >


P*@MuchoMail.Com
2006-02-06 03:12:29 EST
HOWEDY unsurreality aka pat aka trollbasher aka
BLACK VOMIT aka mike duforth,

unsurreality_2005@yahoo.com wrote:
> > That's NICE TALK for a family news group, tommy. Perhaps
> > THAT'S HOWE COME you're an anonymHOWES COWARD, eh tommy?
>
> Don't EVEN bring up this "family newsgroup" crap

You're RIGHT mikey. After all, these ARE The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Forums <{) ; ~ ) >

> with you being the most vile and cruel "person" in here.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard IS "The World's CRUELEST Trainer".

> > Oh, bye the bye tommy, The Amazing Puppy Wizard DOES NOT
> > endorse the use of "treats" "bribes" or physical rewards on accHOWENT
> > of THAT'S HOWE COME dogs FAIL TO PERFORM and THAT'S HOWE
> > COME you gotta SHOCK CHOKE an MURDER them, tommy.
>
> Oh, bye the bye, AssHowe, no one cares what you do or do not "endorse."

NO PROBLEMO mike. The Amazing Puppy Wizard will just IDENTIFY
EXXXPOSE and DISCREDIT you as the punk thug coward lying dog
abusing coward you really are <{) : ~ ) >

> If you had some brain cells, we'd listen.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard doesn't Post to DOG and CHILD
abusers, mikey... HE Posts so NEW READERS will see YOU
as you REALLY ARE, mikey <{) : ~ ) >

> But seeing that you don't, no one cares, AssHowe.

NO PROBLEMO, mikey. Here's a quote from your "book":

From: Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences Research Laboratoryr
Date: 5 Feb 2006 22:39:36 -0800

Subject: Re: dog won't pee/poo outside

HOWEDY unsurreality aka pat aka trollbasher aka
BLACK VOMIT aka mike duforth,

unsurreality_2...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Quick advice:

"I'd tell you the actual name of the product but one large canine has
scratched it off. It's about 6 inches wide all around and red in
color (and looks like a big die). Check out your local pet store for
one - if it works with your dog, you'll love the antics he performs
to get the food (and you'll love the attention he devotes to the
toy); if he doesn't like it, get another one and use them for craps
(the dice game...not what comes out of your dog).

(Update - read this for a word of caution on this toy). Mike"

Even the TOY you "recommended" which you COULDN'T RECOMMEND
on accHOWENT of you don't know the name is dangerHOWES.

BWEEEAHAHAA!!!

> Ignore ANYTHING "The Amazing Puppy Wizard" says...

THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy Wizard QUOTES the
lyin dog abusing punk thug coward active acute chronic long term
incurable MENTAL CASES HE IDENTIFIES EXXXPOSES and
DISCREDITS.

Like booby maida, captain haggerty's PARTNER, for EXXXAMPLE:

"Great book. Better than many out there. I would for sure recommend
it for dog owners and especially would be dog owners. I'll be looking
forward to your next one. 'Cept don't give the next one away."

-Bob Maida - Dog Training/Problem Counseling since 1969
Herndon, Virginia

> If you'd like, you can download my free book Courteous Canines from
> http://home.adelphia.net/~nuxodom that has a chapter on this subject
> that may help you.

BWEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

> Best!

Here's you heelpin, mikey:

unsurreality_2...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Try this free book - it has helped me so much:
> Courteous Canines
> http://home.adelphia.net/~nuxodom

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."

"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?

When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first time,
spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth and walk
away. The dog won't be too thrilled with this but just
ignore him and continue your normal behavior."

--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"Courteous Canines"

It's SO much better than The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Garbage manual.

==========

You don't even WARN folks that it's YOU promotin
YOUR OWN "manual" warnin folks NOT TO CRINGE
when dog abusing mental cases HURT and INTIMIDATE
their dogs accordin to YOUR INSTRUCTIONS, mikey.

Here's you again mikey aka BLACK VOMIT:

HOWEDY black vomit aka unsurreality aka mike duforth,

BlackVomit wrote:
> On 24 Jan 2006 14:07:37 -0800, nfte...@gmail.com wrote:
> My miniature schnauzer (almost a year old now) has been
> generally apartment-friendly. Except for the occasional
> "accident", she really hasn't been too damaging to the
> facilities. Until now...

Hello nfteblj,

Just wanted to warn you in advance of this pervert,
newsgroup abuser and convicted felon who is trolling
the room. His alias is The Amazing Puppy Wizard
and real name is Jerry Howe.

Since you are new here, you just got hooked by replying
to this well known netloon and troll. Once he baits you
as he does with others, you became troll bait and he will flame
you and harass you through this newsgroup and in email.

PLEASE killfile this well known Jerry Howe aka
The Puppy Wizard who is using alot of alias in
here. He is a pathological liar, pervert and
bastard net kook.

All he does is slander and defame people in
here and never listens when told to stop. He knows
nothing about dog training or canine behavior.
He just makes this up, his nose gets longer and
longer like Pinocchio due to lying for years
and he has been abusively trolling this newsgroup
and others for years.

He keeps putting " XXX " in each word, which means
that he is so perverted and he is mentally ill and
off his medication and it is better that all of
you keep him in your killfiles for the time being.
Please avoid replying to messages from all his aliases.
The aliases to killfile are:

TRY THIS, mikey:

Thank You, Mike Duforth Author "Courteous Canine"

HOWEDY unsurreality aka pat aka trollbasher aka BLACK VOMIT aka mike
duforth,,

WOW! THANK YOU for all that GREAT ADVICE in your FREE BOOK!

After JUST WON DAY of jerking choking shocking and alphalpha
rolling HOWER new puppy dog an grHOWELING into ITS throat
an biting IT on ITS ears till IT PISSED an SHIT ITSELF my family
and I FINALLY GOT OVER IT an GOT RID of that pesky pupy
and WILL NOT try bringing in another stinkin biting shit machine
into THIS HOWES.

Your advice to put aversives on HOWER hands to break ITS bonding
efforts was WIZE beyond belief, HOWEver, it was a little SLOWER at
gettin the RESULTS we needed so we just GOT OVER IT an brought
IT to the P-HOWEND for THEM to DEAL WITH and we continued goin
abHOWET HOWER NORMAL behavior, as you advised.

Again, WE CANNOT THANK YOU ENOUGH~!

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!

The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >

From: unsurreality_2...@yahoo.com
Date: 22 Jan 2006 07:20:18 -0800

Subject: Re: blood platlettes [ninnyboy] [jerry] -
The Puppy Wizard's Syndrome <{) ; ~ ) >

> The Amazing Puppy Wizard is fixin to DROP the doGdameneD
> HAMMER on the ENTIRE INDUSTRY, unsurreality... <{) ; ~ ) >

Asshowe, you've been saying that for six fucking years and up to this
point you've only berated a small group of people n a god damned
NEWSGROUP, jackasshowe.

> > > The Amazing Puppy Wizard THRIVES in a world of shit.
> > No shit, Sherlock - all you say is shit.
>
> It's NO SURPRISE that HOWER DOG LOVER will FIGHT TO THE DEATH
> defending their alleged RIGHT to HURT INTIMDIATE an MURDER innocent
> defenseless dumb critters

NOT A SINGLE PERSON IN THIS GROUP HAS TRIED TO "DEFEND THEIR
RIGHT" to HURT, INTIMIDATE AND MUDER their dogs...EVER, jackasshowe.
You are completely delusional AND NEED MEDICAL HELP, jackasshowe!

And, I'd never call my dogs dumb - because they aren't, jackasshowe.
Your fantasy dogs may very well be DUMB, but that would be YOUR FAULT -
which says you don't know jack shit about dog training, jackasshowe.

> given THEIR POSTED CASE HISTORIES of
> CHRONIC DIS-EASE and REPEATED CANCERS in multiple dogs in the
> same HOWEshold, unsurreality. JUST LOOK at racetrack silly's and
> buglady's, janet boss's, Master Of Deception blankman and professor
> SCRUFF SHAKE dermer's, and matty's crittrer's DEATHLY CASE
> HISTORIES of CHRONIC DIS-EASES, SEIZURES and CANCERS <{) ; ~ ) >

Frankly, I don't give a shit, jackasshowe. You STILL HAVEN'T GIVEN
*ME* POSTS WHERE *I* ABUSE MY DOGS, jackasshowe!!! And you CAN'T
because I do NOT abuse my dogs yet YOU constantly ACUSE ME of it,
jackasshowe. On the other hand, I can CERTAINLY acuse YOU of being an
abusive, rotten, creep of a person, because you've provided the proof
in your tireless rants, jackasshowe.

-Pat

There AIN'T NO "pat", is there, mikey...

> > You mean to abuse his dog, matty?

> Yeah, I'm sure that's exactly what he means, jackass.

> > But of curse. matty is a liar and dog abusing mental
> > case like you and janet boss and the resof of you
> > punk thug cowards and MENTAL CASES who The Amazing
> > Puppy Wizard SEZ can't post here nomore <{); ~ ) >

> Look, AssHowe...when you accuse people of being animal
> abusers when they are not, you lose credibility.

> > Yeah. THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy Wizard
> > QUOTES them HURTIN dogs and LYIN abHOWET it, mikey.

> That's how come you are full of shit. I've been in Tae Kwon Do for
> 26 years, and when I mess up, Master Jae kicks me, and it hurts.

> However, because of his training me - even with force - I've become
> one of the best Tae Kwon Do experts. Of course you won't
understand,
> given your insanity, but believe it or not, a few corrections in
either
> human or canine makes a huge difference.

> Go ahead and flail away with the "jerking and shocking and choking"
> crap as usual...no one reads your bullshit anyways.

> Why not test the theory and write that you support terrorists too,
> like you did of the 9/11 terrorists flying into the twin towers?
HOWE
> about that? Give it a shot...no one gives a shit what you think.

> Go rehearse your crazy "a dog is a dog" and "a child is a child" and
> "a spouse is a spouse" at the kooks newsgroup - it has no meaning
> here as> it's all utter bullshit.

> Fucking blowhard imbecile...

BWEEEEEEAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAA!!!

Employment Opportunities -
Must Be Simian Or It's Legal Guardian -
BABOONS NEED NOT APPLY.

HOWEDY People,

The Amazing Puppy Wizard is EXXXPANDING
HIS FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
to include IN-HOWES visits from PROFESSIONAL
SIMIAN DOG TRAINERS for a small, satisfaction
money back guaranteed fee.

Employment opportunities EXXXIST for compassionate
apes and monkeys to be TRAINED FOR FREE with
the assistance of any ten year old HUMAN child under
the guidance of their FREE copy of The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual to SUCCESSFULLY handle and train clients dogs
to PERFECTION in WON IN-HOWES visit, JUST LIKE
HOWE The Amazing Puppy Wizard had done for forty
years PRYOR to comin to the WWW, thanks to V.P.
Al Gore.

THANK YOU, V.P. Al Gore!

Additionally, applicants MUST be willing to
legally change their name after successfully
completing training to "Major Haggerty".

The Amazing Puppy Wizard assures you there
will be NO PAIN FEAR FORCE or INTIMIDATION
inflicted on ANY dogs by your WORKIN simian in
the performance of his duties as a PROFESSIONAL
DOG TRAINER.

BABOONS NEED NOT APPLY.
----------------

HOWEver, after reviewing your resume mike aka pat aka unsurreality
aka BLACK VOMIT, The Amazing Puppy Wizard will make a EXXXCEPTION
for you and booby maida so long as you're willin to wear a gorilla suit
and
not speak while working and answer to the call name of captain arthur
haggerty, but ONLY if you PROMISE to FOLLOW the INSTRUCTIONS
in your own FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual <{) : ~ ) .

The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >


("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
(((' (((-((('' ((((

|\ _.-'~~""'~`'~)
/, ~-,__,,,.'~ ,-;;--''
|,4) ./ ' ; ;/'
'-~~;'@ ( ; ;
_.--'' _.-_..' .;.'
(,_..----''' (,..--''

Meow

/\_/\
(='.'=)
(")_(")

/),,/)
( ' ; ') kiss me
(,,)-(,,)

/),,/)
(' ; ') kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)

/),,/)
( ; ' ) kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)

/),,/)
( ; ) kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)

/)
( * ) and KISS ME HERE!
(,,)-(,,)


The Amazing Pussy Wizard <{@); ~ } >

<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>


Please DON'T BE The Amazing Pussy Wizard's PREY.

IT AIN'T PRETTY.

<(@}; ~ } >


S*@yahoo.com
2006-02-06 05:38:31 EST
Well now I just have to make more of an effort to stay off the forum as
interesting as it is and read the manual. I downloaded it yesterday.
I must admit I made many mistakes while doing rescue and soon after and
my dogs have suffered for it. I have always known deep down it was my
fault and sometimes the guilt I carry for this is so heavy I can hardly
bare it. I wish wish wish that I had found this manual a few years ago
as it probably would have saved many lives...many of my Great Danes
lives.
I had talked and talked and looked and looked for help and many tried
to help but nothing I did to stop the dog to dog aggression I was
experiencing with my dane babies would stop. I knew and still know much
of it is my fault. Like I said I know it now and knew it then.
Great Danes are very very very sensitive. You can even abuse and
neglect your dog by at time doing NOTHING. Treats,
punishment...screaming...nothing worked.
My husband wonders why I am often so 'unhappy' and 'angry.' He does not
seem to understand the pain I still feel from loosing so many dogs. SO
many feel well they are just dogs. But I love my dogs sometimes more
than my humans. Yep....I am brave enough to come forward and admit to
making some or shall I say many mistakes.
SO I am and will make a huge effort to read the manual. It is
free...seems to have everything in it that I have searched for. I have
a great group of dogs right now that all get along well....I need to
learn how to NOT ruin them. (or fix if that is possible what I have
already done.)
So happy reading. To bad I will be at work all day.
God Bless!
Steph

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