Dog Discussion: Doin The Math 1+1+1= ?

Doin The Math 1+1+1= ?
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T*@AniMail.Net
2006-01-04 03:35:47 EST
HOWEDY People,

From: AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaborat...@HushMail.Com
Date: 10 Nov 2005 07:36:43 -0800
Subject: Re: Is there a best pet dog competition and breeders?

HOWEDY Scott,

The Amazing Puppy Wizard was thinkin abHOWET THAT again
today. That could PROVE EVERY THING The Amazing Puppy
Wizard TEACHES. IOW, Let's take your average SAR FLUNK
HOWEND like lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn's SELECTIVELY
BRED HAND PICKED and TESTED SAR DOG JIVE *(RETIRED
DESPITE HAVING NEVER WORKED) and COMPETE IT with a
mixed breed pup of a non working / sporting variety and COMPETE
in the ring and herding trials.

We could take Chihuahuas and make them GUARD DOGS just
like HOWE we read abHOWET that pack of 5 Chi's who attacked
a police officer or field trial MiKi's against tommy soronsen aka
gentleman jack morrison's aka DOGMAN's or lying frosty dahl's
ear pinched shock collar stick trained SELECTIVELY BRED HAND
PICKED and TESTED for GENERATION after GENERATION of
field bred CHUMPion huntin or sheep hurdin stock like melanie
chang's Solo *(Retired) or Fly *(his REPLACEMENT who "DOMINANCE
PISSES") and Master Of Deception blankman's Tsukie *(Retired) and
Freeway *(His REPLACEMENT) against ANY puppy mill / pet shop sold
given up to shelter / rescue / P-HOWEND puppy and TRAIN IT to FIND
LOST KIDS locked in the trunk of cars in New Jersey BEFORE THEY
SUFFOCATE TO DEATH or KIDNAPPED KIDS like Jessica Lundren
PRYOR to GETTIN MURDERED after SEARCHIN for three days within
EZ SCENT of the LIVE KID and STILL couldn't find IT weeks later and
Elizabeth Smart and FIND THEM instead of "TRACKING" them till the
cookies run HOWET and then goin to a road and sayin "THEY WENT
THAT-A-WAY<--- ?---> and goin back in the box to return to the kennel
for breakfast and another day of regular shock and pronged spiked
pinch choke collar trainin for readiness.

That'll pretty much take the click HOWETA their clickers and the
BUZZ HOWETA their shock collars. As a REWARD The Amazing
Puppy Wizard will stop BEATIN these dog abusing mental cases
with their own words like sticks and pinchin and twistin their ears
by QUOTING CASE HISTORY DATA *(despite that lying frosty
dahl DENIES she TWISTS ears) like caesar milan *(THE DOG
WHISPERER) prefers when he ain't jerking and chokin his cash
customer's dogs <{) ; ~ ) >

Perhaps we'll organize the first trial club?

And ya know what? We could USE those RESULTS
for criminal trials against abusive trainers like the above
mentioned dog abusing punk thug cowards and active
acute chronic long term incurable mental cases and
their ilk.

Lucky thing dog fightin is ILLEGAL, otherWIZE these imbeciles
would challenge The Amazing Puppy Wizard to train toy poodles
to fight their big hearted Pit Bull fighting dogs and claim EVERY
THING ELSE IS A LIE, too <{) ; ~ ) >

Scott T. Jensen wrote:
> I just finished watching the Nova program "Dogs and
> More Dogs: The true story of man's best friend" and
> at the end, one of the experts they interviewed

Might that EXXXPERT be Ray Coppinger?:

"Ray Coppinger who wrote "Dogs" said "I'd also suspect
that if I locked up the pup in the house alone each day
while I went to work, I'd get a small brained pup with
out enough connections to be a good social companion"

Seems MOST dogs spend their days in their HOWES alone.
Some are locked in boxes to PREVENT behavior problems.
Others are TRAINED to RELAXXX and PROTECT their HOWES.

"Some genetic mutation was required. Coppinger
and Coppinger stated in their book Dogs "A basic
change, a genetic change has occurred." If not,
then today's wild wolf puppies tamed from birth
would be capable of domestication."

The Amazing Puppy Wizard SEZ "THAT'S BUNK."
The REASON Coppinger SEZ you "can't train a
wild wolf" is because the training methods
he's FAMILIAR with are UNFITTING for ANY
critter, particularly the wolf. Coppinger
doesn't know BEHAVIOR, he knows GENETICS,
otheWIZE he wouldn't BLAME THE BREED:

"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement. IOW,
emotions, not outside rewards, are what
reinforces any behavior," Ivan Pavlov.

"...all the highest nervous activity, as it manifests
itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a continual
change of these three fundamental processes -- excitation,
inhibition and disinhibition." Ivan P. Pavlov

Pavlov Told Us So 100 Years Ago. Sam Corson,
Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At UofOH
Oxford, That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive
Dogs Can Easily And Readily Be Done Using TLC.
Tender Loving Care Is At The Root Of The
Scientific Management Of Doggys. <{) ; ~ ) >

"You might want to consider Pavlov's typology to
understand "hard and soft dogs" - essentially he
taught that there are outward and inward responding
organisms in weak and strong nervous systems and if
you grasp this firmly you'll shape your training
methods effectively," Dr. Von Hilsheimer.

So, until someone brings me a wild wolf to
train on the WWW from setting right here
stark ravin nekkid, we'll let Pavlov, Corson
and Dr. Von debate the "issues" of wild critters
on accHOWENT of The Amazing Puppy Wizard SEZ:

A DOG Is A Dog;
As A KAT Is A KAT;
As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES.

ALL Critters Only Respond In
PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.

You GET The Critter You TRAINED

In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.

> said that breeders should be focusing
> not on looks but personality.

Webster's:

Main Entry: per·son·al·i·ty
Pronunciation: "p&r-s&n-'a-l&-tE, "p&r-'sna-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ties
Etymology: Middle English personalite, from Late
Latin personalitat-, personalitas, from personalis

1 a : the quality or state of being a person
b : personal existence

2 a : the condition or fact of relating to a particular person;
specifically: the condition of referring directly to or
being aimed disparagingly or hostilely at an individual

b : an offensively personal remark <angrily resorted to
personalities

3 : the complex of characteristics that distinguishes an
individual or a nation or group; especially : the
totality of an individual's behavioral and emotional
characteristics

4 a : distinction or excellence of personal and social traits;

IOW, they're talkin abHOWET TRAINING.

> To breed the perfect pet.

The "PERFECT PET" is TRAINED, not bred.

> This to me makes perfect sense.

Not when you consider the SHELTER and RESCUE dog lover's
recommendations to get PERFECT PETS from RESCUES and
SHELTERS. OtherWIZE they SUGGEST gettin them from ETHICKAL
BREEDERS. The EXXXPERTS are all over the place on these
issues, Scott. They CONTRADICT themselves right and left.

> Are any breeders doing this?

Ooops!

> Is there an association of breeders that
> is pushing this agenda?

You'd have to consult the individual breed clubs.
They set the standards which the AKC approves. If
you look at the POSTED CASE HISTORIES of the ETHICKAL
BREEDERS whe got here like susan fraser and robin
nuttall and dra. linda hungerford and kwbrown and
~emily you'll SEE HOWE COME they HURT INTIMDIATE
and MURDER innocent defenseless dumb critters and
BLAME THE BREED when their dogs FAIL.

> Are there best pet dog competitions?

Perhaps you're lookin for sumpthin DIFFERENT
than the standared breed / conformation / field
trail / agility competetions.

The closest thing to what you're lookin for
is "RALLY SPORT" which is a light loaffered
approach to OBEDIENCE TRIALS whereby dogs
are not required to perform STRICT OBEDIENCE
so long as they willingly approximate the
requirements dumbed DHOWEN tests.

> Also, what is being done to breed out
> the genetic problems in dogs?

Most so called GENETIC PROBLEMS are only a
PROPENSITY for particular BREEDS to succumb
in a typical manner to typical STRESSORS.

The PROOF of THAT is, that ALL temperament
and behavior problems are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING
and can therefore be CURED NEARLY INSTANTLY.

> Are dog competitions finally starting to do DNA
> testing of contestants and prohibiting those with
> genetic disorders from competing?

No. And they probably never will. Their only
concern is the numerology behind the paperwork.

> Are or when might breeder associations prohibit
> the breeding of dogs with genetic disorders or
> at least removing the title of "pure" from their
> title?

When ETHICKAL BREEDERS learn HOWE to SPELL ETHICKS.

"All Professions Are A Conspiracy Against The Layman" - G.B.Shaw.

> Lastly, are there any breeder associations and dog
> competitions that are trying to do both? Breed not
> only pure breeds but pure breeds that are perfect pets?

If you'll read the BREED STANDARDS you'll SEE it's
the ETHICKAL BREEDERS who ACCEPT the SO CALLED BREED
TRAITS which prelcude THEIR BREED as PERFECT PETS.

THAT'S HOWE COME THEY SELL TO PREFERRED BUYERS,
those PREFERABLY EXXXPERIENCED with THEIR BREED'S
TRAITS and TEMPERAMENT CHARACTERISTICS and WILLING
TO TOLERATE THEIR BAD BEHAVIORS. Like Pit Bulls FOR
EXXXAMPLE are KNOWN, ACCEPTED, and EXXXPECTED to be
DOG AGGRESSIVE as Huskys and Beagles are KNOWN, ACCEPTED
and EXXXPECTED to be DIFFICULT to kennel HOWEsbreak and
CONFINE and Grey HOWENDS CANNOT be TRUSTED off leash etc.
ad NAUSEAUM.

> Not focusing just on looks and body structure
> but also personality of the dog as a good pet.

If you read the BREED STANDARDS you'll SEE the
ETHICKAL BREEDERS BLAMING THEIR OWN BREED for
TEMPERAMENT and BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS which can
readily be OBVIATED by apupriate training and
handling.

> Scott Jensen

You've thus far gotten replies from the least
competent most highly ignorant dog abusing
mental cases with AGENDAS to BLAME THE DOG
for their CONSISTENT INABILITY to pupperly
handle and train them.

r.p.d.b. SYNDROME:
http://www.apa.org/journals/fe ­atures/psp7761121.pdf

"UNSKILLED AND UNAWARE OF IT: HOW DIFFICULTIES IN
RECOGNIZING ONE'S OWN INCOMPETENCE LEAD TO INFLATED
SELF-ASSESSMENTS

Across 4 studies, the authors found that participants
scoring in the bottom quartile... grossly overestimated
their best performance and ability. Although their test
scores put them in the 12th percentile, they estimated
themselves to be in the 62nd."

- Never attribute to malice that which can be
adequately explained by stupidity.

- Sufficiently advanced incompetence is
indistinguishable from malice.

- Insufficiently advanced malice is indistinguishable
from incompetence.

matty wrote:
> I would say that a legitimate organisation is well-
> balanced in its representation of training methods
> and, even if it doesn't promote some methods, neither
> should it vilify them.

You mean, like THIS, matt:

captain arthur haggerty, A.P.D.T. SEZ:
"A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A Resounding Sound Distraction:
"When You Chuck The Dog The Sound Will Travel Up The
Mandible To The Ears And Give A Popping Sound To The Dog."

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to
MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???

"Whatever Motivates The Dog, But I Daresay Most Of
The Dogs I Have In Classes Just Aren't That Interested
In Praise," BINACA bethFIST, professional trainer.

"The Best Way To Teach Him To Stay Away Is To
Step On Him Once. Seriously," BINACA bethFIST,
professional trainer..

"Hold Back The Dobie Girl So That Izzy Can
Put Simon In His Place," BINACA bethFIST,
professional trainer.

terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context,
because you are full of bizarro manure."

"Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a
helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.
Tougher, less tractable dogs may require
you to progress to striking them more
sharply," lying frosty dahl, ethical breeder,
expert trainer, discoverer of cannibalism
in Labradors.

You think a EXXXPERT trainer got to BEAT
a HUNTIN dog to MAKE IT HUNT?

"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.

Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies
HURT all their lives like HOWE HOWER dog
lovers PREFER to HURT THEIR DOGS?

"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."

The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.

"Try pinching the ear between the metal
casing and the collar, even the buckle on
the collar. Persist! Eventually, the dog will
give in but will squeal, thrash around, and
direct their efforts to escaping the ear pinch"

"This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome

You can press the dog's ear with a
shotshell instead of your thumb even
get a studded collar and pinch the ear
against that Make the dog's need to stop
the pinching so urgent that resisting your
will fades in importance.

CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever
Ready Right Hand, As it catches on, try
using the stick and no ear pinch.

When the dog is digging out to beat the
stick and seems totally reliable without
any ear pinch, you are finished

If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly
under the chin, say "No! Hold!"

(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps
because the ear is getting tender, or the
dog has decided it isn't worth it)" lying
frosty dahl.

"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction" --Janet Boss.

Mustang Sally:
"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."

"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me. I volunteered
as assistant to the euthanasia tech at our local shelter
for a while, and I know a bit about overpopulation and
unwanted animals.

This however has nothing at all to do with responsible
breeders, because responsible breeders don't contribute
to that problem," Mustang Sally.


"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv128jnumgmb2m27opr@4ax.com...

Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.

I'm starting to see some similarities here.

Sally Hennessey

Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 13:23:46 +0100
Local: Mon, Apr 9 2001 5:23 am
Subject: Re: shock collars

Sally Hennessey <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63h8ekqiforibadrff2@4ax.com...

Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-righteous,
this post shows and absence of knowledge in the differences
in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps a lack of ability to perceive
same. The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to whom
corrections and discomfort, even pain, were unimportant does
not mean that such dogs do not exist.

What it means is that you don't know as much about dogs
as you think you do, and you surely don't know a damn
thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.

I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with one
of her housemates; that dog had no fear or anything,
and pain incurred during a fight meant nothing to her.

I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that you,
Alison, continue to say things to people such as what
you said to Theresa about causing her dog to suffer
(at least I guess that's what you meant by "you cause
your dog suffers" - - must be the King's English you
guys talk about over there) means that you are an
ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person who is not worth
further notice.
Sally Hennessey


Mustang Sally"
I've read the thing (I refuse to call it a manual),
and I can tell you, based on experience with high
prey breeds, that "good boy" and "good girl" are
not particularly useful when redirecting high prey
drive.

Mustang Sally:
"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."

"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me. I volunteered
as assistant to the euthanasia tech at our local shelter
for a while, and I know a bit about overpopulation and
unwanted animals.

This however has nothing at all to do with responsible
breeders, because responsible breeders don't contribute
to that problem," Mustang Sally.


"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv128jnumgmb2m27opr@4ax.com...

Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.

I'm starting to see some similarities here.

Sally Hennessey

Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 13:23:46 +0100
Local: Mon, Apr 9 2001 5:23 am
Subject: Re: shock collars


Sally Hennessey <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63h8ekqiforibadrff2@4ax.com...

Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-righteous,
this post shows and absence of knowledge in the differences
in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps a lack of ability to perceive
same. The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to whom
corrections and discomfort, even pain, were unimportant does
not mean that such dogs do not exist.

What it means is that you don't know as much about dogs
as you think you do, and you surely don't know a damn
thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.

I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with one
of her housemates; that dog had no fear or anything,
and pain incurred during a fight meant nothing to her.

I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that you,
Alison, continue to say things to people such as what
you said to Theresa about causing her dog to suffer
(at least I guess that's what you meant by "you cause
your dog suffers" - - must be the King's English you
guys talk about over there) means that you are an
ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person who is not worth
further notice.
Sally Hennessey

From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 09:48:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Fencing

It's astounding. We used livestock electric fence
at the bottom of our fence some years back because
of a certain digging husky with wanderlust. This
was fairly new electric fencing, the shock was mild,
said husky touched it any number of times, and I can
guarandamntee you it didn't do anything horrible to
her body or her mind.

If I live to be 100, I will never understand the
mentality of people who have no knowledge of a
subject but still feel free, apparently compelled
even, to opine on that subject.

When it's people in another country,
it's nothing short of mind-boggling.

Mustang Sally

"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828.07753.00000001@mb-m18.aol.com...

> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss
>
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...

> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916.10096.00001938@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.

An INSENSITIVE DOG???

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.
- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.

"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs. It's a safety
necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn

"Training is not confrontation," lynn k.

<except when it is>

"So what? Whoever said that it's right to
always not confront? We sure can try, but
a dog who knows a command and growls when
given it is certainly being confrontational".
You can't simply walk away and pretend it
didn't happen or leave it for later work in
every situation." Lynn K.


From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
"Remember this - The decision to "do right" that most
helps a dog's character is the decision that he makes
himself. You cannot teach a dog to not want something,
any more than you can teach a human not to want something."

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.
------------------------------­---

From: sionnach (rhyfe...@email.msn.com)
Subject: Re: Correct use of prong collar
Date: 2001-05-05 13:03:14 PST

> And Sally responded:
> > Who said that? I would never do or recommend
> > that, and neither would most of the regulars
> > on here. Sally Hennessey
>
> I've posted my entire quote, since Patch failed
> to do so. Take it out of context and you'd think
> I was flinging puppies across the room!
> here's what I said (keep in mind that we're
> talking about a 12 week old ~25# FCR puppy):
> A small scruff shake is appropriate if he's
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^­­­­^^^^^^^^^^
> very persistant.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Um, may I suggest a re-wording that might make
it clearer- given that "scruff shake" is too easily
misinterpreted as "pick the puppy up by the scruff
of the neck and shake the puppy in the air"?

I think I'd phrase it something like "if the puppy is very
persistant, it can be appropriate to take hold of the
loose skin at the back of the neck and give a slight
shake to the *skin*".

Janet's not talking about actually shaking
the puppy, which I think we ALL agree is
abusive."

sinofabitch writes:
> >> What I have said- repeatedly - is that he took
> >> posts from two different people,
> >> took pieces of them out of context,
> >> cobbled them together,
> >> then added his own words:

"Neatly," and "Smartly."

> >>and a fake signature.

"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.

> >> Which is exactly what he did.
> >> The actual quote is misleading
> >> when taken out of context, and Jerry's
> >> faked "quote" is downright meaningless.
>
> >Here's Jerry's version
>
> > "I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
> > Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
> > Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
> > Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
> > Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
> > Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
> > Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.
>
> > Here's yours;
>
> > "I dropped the leash, threw my
> > right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
> > grabbed her opposite foot with my
> > left hand, rolled her on her side,
> > leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
> > nipped her ear.
> > --Sara Sionnach

BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!

> > They claim to do "behaviour consulting:" what
> > credentials should a person have to offer such
> > services?
>
> What *should* they have or what *do* they have? For
> example, I could offer behaviour consulting, but I
> wouldn't,

That's false, Matty. YOU SELL DOG TRAINING LESSONS to
go along with your unlicensed uninsured DAY BOARDING /
OVERNIGHT facility run out of your cellar.

> even though I have as many credentials as the next guy who does.

CITES PLEASE? You're a flat out LIAR. You CHOKE
SHOCK BRIBE INTIMIDATE and LOCK DOGS IN BOXES to
"TRAIN" them, Matt:

"The IMBECILITY of some of the claims for operant
technique simply take the breath away. Lovas et al
(1966) report a standard contingent reward/punishment
procedure developing imitative speech in two severly
disturbed non verbal schizophrenic boys. After twenty-
six days the boys are reported to have been learning
new words with alacrity. HOWEver, when REWARDS were
moved to a delayed contingency the behavoir and learning
immediately deteriorated."

"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVERY LEARNING THEORY
model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT. Of curse,
Skinner has never to my knowledge, demonstrated
how we escape the phenomenon that an expected
reward not received is experienced as a punishment
and can produce extensive and persistent aggression
(Azrin et al, 1966)."

THAT'S WHY YOUR DEATHLY ILL DOG Rocky is DYING
from STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASE, Matt.

> To me, a true behaviourist is like a psychiatrist,
> with the medical background necessary to properly
> deal with the drugs sometimes required in behaviour
> modification.

THAT'S INSANE, Matt:

"Psychiatry has yet to validate a single psychiatric
condition/diagnosis as an abornality/disease, or as
anything 'neurological', 'biological', 'chemically
imbalanced' or 'genetic'." Dr. Fred A. Baughman, Neurologist.

> Barring a DVM, a behaviour consultant should have
> a whole lot of training experience in a wide range
> of training methodologies.

THAT'S INSANE, Matt. Your own dog is DYING of STRESS
INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASE aka The Puppy Wizard's
SYNDROME because you're a DOG ABUSER:

"It is NO WONDER that the marked changes in
deviant behavior of children can be achieved
through brief, simple educative routines with
their mothers which modify the mother's social
behaviors shaping the child (Whaler, 1966). Some
clinics have reported ELIMINATION ofthe need for
child THERAPY through changing the clinical emphasis
from clinical to parental HANDLING of the child
(Szrynski 1965).

A large number of cases improved sufficiently after
preliminary contact with parents that NO treatment
of children was required, and almost ALL cases
SHOWE a remarkably shortened period for therapy.
Quite severe cases of anorexia nervosa have been
treated in own to five months by simply REPLACING
the parents temporarily with EFFUSIVELY LOVING
SUBSTITUTES (Groen, 1966)."

> I didn't see a lot of specifics on the website you posted.

They're blowing smoke up our arses, JUST LIKE YOU'RE DOIN.
You're a troll who spams dog news groups for customers for
your "day care and training business" you just recently
started because you can't hold a real job because you're a
compulsive liar and dog abusing coward.

Can you tell the TRUTH from a LIE?:

> > "Rocky" <m...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
> > news:Xns918E71AD0F4D1australianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...
> wolfgirl <nos...@newsranger.com> in rec.pets.dogs.behavior
> (news:cSXZ7.6039$cD4.9583@www.newsranger.com) wrote:
>
> >> You're scary, Marilyn.
>
> > I am not Marilyn, but i do believe that she has
> > open minded views on dog training and that I am
> > just agreeing with her prespectives on how to
> > train a dog without abuse.
>
> You're posting anonymously from Newsranger? You're
> Marilyn. BUT, giving you the benefit of the doubt,
> please provide a quote (an original quote, not from
> one of Jerry Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or using an abusive
> form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> > > Jerome Bigge writes:
> > > I do know that hitting, hurting
> > > your dog will often make the
> > > dog either aggressive or a fear
> > > biter, neither of which we want to do.

And then we got, matty! Follow his discussion!
This is what's called, a liar and dog abuser:

> > And neither does anyone else,
> > Jerome. No matter
> > what Jerry Howe states.

"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This I've Suggested It To Quite
A Few Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY
TIME The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer,
33 Years Experience.

"Saved the dog's life, the family cried through tears
of joy, knowing they weren't going to have to return
their little dog to the shelter they were obligated to
return him to if they couldn't keep him," sez marilyn.

You DO remember KILLFILING MARILYN for her coment
above regarding her success with The Puppy Wizard's
Surrogate Toy Separation AnXXXIHOWESNESS / Bed Time
Calming / Fear Of Thunder / Car Sickness / Submissive
Urination / Obsessive Compulsive Masturbation / Chronic
Urinary Tract / Bladder / Irritable BHOWEL / Obsessive
Compulsive Marking / Spraying / Defecating Syndrome
Technique <{); ~ ) >

Perhaps you likeWIZE recall a pediatrician, Dr. Z,
who commented that his bed time calming technique
was quite similar?

> > You're scary Marilyn.

> > Marilyn must be quite a disturbed
> > individual. I feel very sorry for her
> > and her family.

"His Amazing Progress Almost Makes Me Cry.
Your Method Takes Positive Training To The
Next Level And Should Really Be Used By All
Trainers Who Call Themselves Trainers. Thank
You For Helping Me Save His Life," Kay Pierce,
Professional Trainer, 30 Years Experience.

> > BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> > doubt, please provide a quote (an
> > original quote, not from one of Jerry
> > Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> > shows a regular poster promoting or
> > using an abusive form of training.
> >
> > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

> > The training facility I currently use requires
> > about a 1hr commute either way. It would be
> > nice to find someone closer. OTOH many of Macula's
> > issues can, at least in part, be traced to well-
> > meaning and well-recommended trainers who didn't
> > know what they were doing.

Naaaaaaah???

> Are you still seeing Lane's group?

WON OF YOUR HIGHLY RECOMMENDED PROFESIONAL
PET NETWORKING PALS, Matty?

> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

Hello Diana,

Diana wrote:
> "John" <johnsumaNOS...@loxinfo.co.th> wrote in message
> news:dgacta$g9l$1@news.loxinfo.co.th...

<SNIP>

> A puddle?
> I'd be careful about using electric clippers around that! lol

Yeah. Looks like John's SPELLIN is as poor as my own.

> If you are talking about a poodle, that's a different matter

Wouldn't be a far stretch of the imagination to figger
John's referring to a POODLE, puddle bein a common PUN.

> (though the name did derive from the German word 'pudel'
> (or something along those lines, wihout stopping to double
> check), meaning to splash in water, their origins being
> very much of a working water dog.

That's very enlightening, Diana.

> Personally, I would be wary of trying to do something
> to my dog's coat from advice gleemed from a site,

There's library books that'll show the cuts
and the reasons for them and the instructions
for the pupper blades, but it looks like John
is writing from Thailand or sumpthin and may
not have pubic libraries. Perhaps he'll find
comprable INFORMATION on the WWW detailing the
haircuts available for Puddles.

> any fool can put just about anything out there on the www

You mean, like you've been doing for several
years in dealing with your own mental illness,
Diana.

>(see below - you fell for that one? -

Yeah: "PS: Thanks to the dogs wizard book writer (Howe)
worked fine for me, good tips good result."

> but tbh

"tbh", Diana? You mean 'To Be HONEST', Diana?
That's NEVER been your strong suit as you was
TAUGHT to LIE in order to avoid justly deserved
PUNISHMET from your drunken abusive neglectful
yet doting parents, Diana.

> so did I at first,

Till you discovered you couldn't continue to
be a selfish abusive dog owner because ANY
PUNISHMENT derranges behaviors and caused
your own DEAD DOG Stone to BE MURDERED for
his STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASES
and temperament and behavior problems.

Make you FEEL GUILTY learning you're the CAUSE
of your own dog's prolonged, painful DEATH and
the destruction you've suffered for years, by
being the kind of dog owner your vicious parents
taught you to be, Diana.

But enough of that, let's talk dog behaviors, shall we?

> a good few yrs ago

You mean pryor to learning you are an abuser, Diana.

> now but got put right back on track quickly enuff!),

Your REPLACEMENT dog Cindy's got the same temperament
and behaivor and heelth problems your DEAD DOG Stone
sufferd as a result of your ABUSE, Diana.

> Anyway, if you have to be seen out in public with
> your dog, you want him to look reasonably presentable.

Unlike wanting to be PRESENTABLE just because
that's NORMAL, Diana? Seems EVERY THING you do
is for SHOW, Diana. You don't CARE about NUTHIN
EXXXCEPT HOWE IT LOOKS to others, Diana. That's
your mistaken concept of SELF RESPECT, Diana.

Just look under your dog's forelegs and you'll
SEE the SCARS from your restrictive slip choke
harness you use because YOU CAN'T TRAIN YOUR
OWN DOG TO HEEL without HURTING HER, Diana.

> Grooming is a learned trade,

Yeah. You can LEARN IT FROM A BOOK, Diana.
You got any good suggestions for grooming
books?

> and I'm sure you will be able to pick it up quickly,

Pretty much it's a matter of learning to brush
the dog out pryor to bathing, rinsing till rinsed
and then RINSE AGAIN and dry and trim hair, it
AIN'T ROCKET SCIENCE, Diana, despite what you
sez on the WWW.

> but as in most practical trades, practical
> tutition is the best way to learn it.

Like how you've LEARNED to HURT YOUR OWN DOG, Diana?

> > PS: Thanks to the dogs wizard book writer (Howe)
> > worked fine for me, good tips good result.
> > But why is it a free one ?
> > Where is the cach ? :)
>
> It's garbage -

That's not what John SEZ, Diana:
"Thanks to the dogs wizard book writer (Howe)
worked fine for me, good tips good result."

> that's why its free...

No, it's FREE because I want to save DECENT PEOPLE
from turning into the mentally derranged lying dog
abusing punk thug coward Sadist you've been TAUGHT
to be, in order to DEFEND your ABUSIVE PARENTS, Diana.

> you get what you pay for generally in life,

"Thanks to the dogs wizard book writer (Howe)
worked fine for me, good tips good result."

> and free usually equates to cr*p.

You've been PAYING for "training" lessons
for years with both your fearful hyperactive
out of CON-TROLL dogs, Diana, and you STILL
GOT the SAME PROBLEMS you started with when
you first began abusing your dogs.

> Have a look at the kind of posts he fills
> this and other groups with,

Oh, you mean that I've QUOTED your own POSTED
CASE HISTORY of lies pain fear force intimidation
and abuse.

> then put 2 and 2 together.

I THINK he JUST DID, Diana:

"Thanks to the dogs wizard book writer (Howe)
worked fine for me, good tips good result."

Mustang Sally"
I've read the thing (I refuse to call it a manual),
and I can tell you, based on experience with high
prey breeds, that "good boy" and "good girl" are
not particularly useful when redirecting high prey
drive.

Mustang Sally:
"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."

"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me. I volunteered
as assistant to the euthanasia tech at our local shelter
for a while, and I know a bit about overpopulation and
unwanted animals.

This however has nothing at all to do with responsible
breeders, because responsible breeders don't contribute
to that problem," Mustang Sally.

> Would an achieved and viable trainer / animal
> behaviour specialist behave in such a way?

Let's talk about you jerking and choking and
spraying aversives in your dog's faces and
making them fearful hyperactive and DEATHLY
ILL from STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASE
aka The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME, and MURDERING
YOUR OWN DEAD DOG, Diana?

> Much of the manual is plagiarized material

CITES PLEASE?

"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv128jnumgmb2m27opr@4ax.com...

Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.

I'm starting to see some similarities here.

Sally Hennessey

Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 13:23:46 +0100
Local: Mon, Apr 9 2001 5:23 am
Subject: Re: shock collars


Sally Hennessey <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63h8ekqiforibadrff2@4ax.com...

Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-righteous,
this post shows and absence of knowledge in the differences
in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps a lack of ability to perceive
same. The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to whom
corrections and discomfort, even pain, were unimportant does
not mean that such dogs do not exist.

What it means is that you don't know as much about dogs
as you think you do, and you surely don't know a damn
thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.

I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with one
of her housemates; that dog had no fear or anything,
and pain incurred during a fight meant nothing to her.

I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that you,
Alison, continue to say things to people such as what
you said to Theresa about causing her dog to suffer
(at least I guess that's what you meant by "you cause
your dog suffers" - - must be the King's English you
guys talk about over there) means that you are an
ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person who is not worth
further notice.
Sally Hennessey

From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 09:48:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Fencing

It's astounding. We used livestock electric fence
at the bottom of our fence some years back because
of a certain digging husky with wanderlust. This
was fairly new electric fencing, the shock was mild,
said husky touched it any number of times, and I can
guarandamntee you it didn't do anything horrible to
her body or her mind.

If I live to be 100, I will never understand the
mentality of people who have no knowledge of a
subject but still feel free, apparently compelled
even, to opine on that subject.

When it's people in another country,
it's nothing short of mind-boggling.

Mustang Sally

"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828.07753.00000001@mb-m18.aol.com...

> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss
>
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...

> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916.10096.00001938@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.

An INSENSITIVE DOG???

> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.

-----------------------

> (as I remember),

Then you won't have NO PROBLEM CITING THE PLAGIARISM,
Diana, because everyWON ELSE SEZ my METHODS DON'T
WORK and they're DANGEROUS and PLAGIARIZED from
UNMENTIONED SOURCES that EVERY WON KNOWS, Diana.

CITES PLEASE?

You're a profoundly mentally ill dog abusing coward, Diana.

> and some of it is at very least, downright dangerous.

CITES PLEASE, Diana?:

"Thanks to the dogs wizard book writer (Howe)
worked fine for me, good tips good result."

> If you want a better understanding of your dog,
> read Jean Donaldson,

She bribes chokes and ignores dogs, Diana.

"*.@DCFWatch.com" wrote:
No, the dog learned that I would hold still
the second she began to pull. She would pull
to go where *she* wanted.

Well if she wanted to stop and go in another
direction.. say to sniff my neighbors yard..

she learned if she wanted to do it I would stop
walking and she could go.. and if there wasn't
enough slack on her lead she would just pull me.

Then when she got done doing *her* thing, she woudl
heel.. smile at me and wait for me to say "let's go"
and finish *my* thing. I would refuse to move .. i
looked like an idiot.. freezing mid walk for minutes
waiting for *my* dog to heel and give *me* permission
to go again.

I did the treats and the let's go... she got to do her
stuff and get a cookie.. if she even wanted the cookie.

I wound up calling Jerry.. as I have a half red nose
pit and half amstaff.. who is incredibly protective..

we had a new pup on the way.. and i needed help.. i
followed petsmarts trainnign guides.. memorized them...
and they *did* work, don't get me wrong.. but only
when my pet wanted a cookie or felt the cookie was
better than what she wanted.. which was not often.

She quickly learned to ignore my commands if she
could see my hands were empty. So I called Jerry...
he chatted me for about an hour and a half.. gave me
his link... and even when i had probs intro'ing the
pup he called me withn i5 mins of my email for help
at 10pm on a sunday night.

One.. singular.. uno family pack exercise after
the hot and cold exercise and i could zig zag
down my street.. about face .. whatever.. and
never had tension.

two men were acrossed the street and she walked right
by them... ordinarily she'd snarl and protect us.

And in two days.. my dog.. who bit the puppy if he
even looked like he was going near my husband or kids..
is nursing him every hour.. cleaning him.. rough housing
gently.. and teaching him to go potty outside..

actually watches him to make sure he doesn't go in
the house... and has milk.. which is awesome since
she's 19 months old and has never had a litter.

She also has stopped barking non stop at our neighbor's
dogs and pig.. does not bark at eveyr car that drives by
and has stopped jumping on people. she's even starting
to ignore our cat who has lived on her dome litter box
and our window sill (literally) for over a year and a half.

She also does her commands on cue.. and doesn't look for a treat.

> Ian Dunbar,

I've DISCREDITED dr. ian dunbar by means of POSTED CASE
HISTORY of PERSONAL REAL LIFE IN PERSON EXXXPERIENCES
with dr. dunbar's "METHODS" and QUOTING HIS OWN WORDS:

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn, tricia666 and company:

> > I spent this evening at a small group session on
> > dog-human aggression hosted by Open Paw. Ian
> > Dunbar was the speaker

That's DOCTOR ian dunbar, dog behavior fraudS.

> > and was very clear that he uses P.

You mean P as in PUNISHMENT or P as in PRAISE?

Or P as in POO POO?

We're gonna quit using CONfHOWENDING scrabble
terms and RELY on INTELLIGENCE and HONESTY,
things you've YET to learn abHOWET cause you'll
do and say ANY THING to defend your alleged right
to hurt and murder dogs as you PREFER.

> > The distinction he made, and I think it's at the
> > heart of the issue, is that he only uses what he
> > calls "instructive punishment".

IOW MOORE DHOWEble talk.

lying "I LOVE KOEHELR" lynn REPORTED his "METHOD"
DIDN'T WORK for her and her PALS who were at that
"grHOWEL class":

Lynn K.:
In a talk on dog-dog aggression on 5/27.
Given his propensity for repeating himself
verbatim, I'll bet he's also written it somewhere :-)

My biggest take-home from that evening actually
came from a brief conversation with Tricia999 &
some co-workers afterwards.

They confirmed my experience that "growl classes"
don't have a lasting impact on the reactivity of dog
aggressive dogs.

Our common experience was that the desensitization
only lasted for the session and didn't carry forward.

As an aside, you might want to get a copy of the
little training manual they are using for shelter
volunteers at www.openpaw.org

The stuff on teaching people how to get into the
kennel and get an excited dog out for a walk is
excellent. Lynn K.

So you see DOG LOVERS, YOUR "EXPERTS" METHODS DON'T
WORK. YOUR EXXXPERTS ARE FRAUDS LIARS DOG ABUSERS
COWARDS and ACTIVE LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES
and IT'S IN BLACK AND WHITE and html.

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to
MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
"Remember this - The decision to "do right" that most
helps a dog's character is the decision that he makes
himself. You cannot teach a dog to not want something,
any more than you can teach a human not to want something."

"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs.

It's a safety necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn

"Training is not confrontation," lynn k.

<except when it is>

"So what? Whoever said that it's right to
always not confront? We sure can try, but
a dog who knows a command and growls when
given it is certainly being confrontational".
You can't simply walk away and pretend it
didn't happen or leave it for later work in
every situation." Lynn K.

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.
------------------------------­---

From: sionnach (rhyfe...@email.msn.com)
Subject: Re: Correct use of prong collar
Date: 2001-05-05 13:03:14 PST


> And Sally responded:
> > Who said that? I would never do or recommend
> > that, and neither would most of the regulars
> > on here. Sally Hennessey
>
> I've posted my entire quote, since Patch failed
> to do so. Take it out of context and you'd think
> I was flinging puppies across the room!
> here's what I said (keep in mind that we're
> talking about a 12 week old ~25# FCR puppy):
> A small scruff shake is appropriate if he's
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^­­­­^^^^^^^^^^
> very persistant.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Um, may I suggest a re-wording that might make
it clearer- given that "scruff shake" is too easily
misinterpreted as "pick the puppy up by the scruff
of the neck and shake the puppy in the air"?

I think I'd phrase it something like "if the puppy is very
persistant, it can be appropriate to take hold of the
loose skin at the back of the neck and give a slight
shake to the *skin*".

Janet's not talking about actually shaking
the puppy, which I think we ALL agree is
abusive."

> Suzanne Clothier

She's a alpha dominance abuser, like yourself, Diana.

> and material by recognised, achieved authors.

That's why I've DISCREDITED veterinary ethologists like
dr. mark plonsky and dr. ian dunbar, dra. patricia mcconnell,
dra. karen overall, dr. nicholas dodman, dra. amy marter, and
all the rest of the incompetent dog abusing university trained
ehthologists whom The Amazing Puppy Wizard has IDENTIFIED
EXXXPOSED and DISCREDITED according to THEIR OWN
WORKS, Diana.

some of them are READING RIGHT NOW, DOG LOVERS.
Ask them to SPEAK UP! I'll knock them on their butts using
THEIR OWN WORDS as soon as they come out of the woodwork.

> Diana

You're a VERY SCARY PERSON, Diana.

But I'm gonna MAKE IT UP TO YOU, Diana.
I don't want to see you remain a bitter
vulagr drunken sod forever, Diana:

Hello Hailley,

Hailey wrote:
> You are SUCH an idiot!

Agreed, Hailey. In the past I've acted in direct
opposition to my own teachings because I was afraid
and ignorant and acted out of gut reflex to what
my sensibilities and studies have taught me are
obscenities.

> LOL too bad you're not *really* laughable!

That's because the issues are so deeply rooted
in violence neglect selfishness and abuse disguised
as RESPECT, that it angered me. After all, despite
my efforts to conceal the truth, I'm only human
therefore, unlike my Divinely Inspired METHODS,
am fallible.

> I just hope and pray NO ONE takes you seriously!

Because you'll do and say anything to defend
your alleged right to enjoy inflicting pain
fear and intimidation on other, less capable,
defenseless creatures as you were taught over
the knee or under the lash of your parents in
the hopes of instilling RESPECT.

Respect must be EARNED, as I'm trying to do today.
Yesterday is HISTORY and is irrelevent if we can
desensitize us to the conditioning to which we've
become accustomed. Me, being conditioned by ugly
responses from supposed animal lovers whom we'd
expect would be eager to learn a more successful
way of life and yours, an effort to defend the
abuses you suffered at the hands of like minded
parental abuse disguised as RESPECT.

> MORON

I can't make up for your past hurts, only you
can come to terms with them, Hailey. BUT I CAN
tell you how to do that, if you'd be willing to
listen. It seems we're condititioned to LOVE the
Devils we know.

I'm sorry you prefer to remain mentally ill, Hailey.
Perhaps I've contributed to it, for which I apologize.

IN FACT, just prefixing "PERHAPS" tells me I'm STILL
suffering, as you are, so I'll try NO. NOT TRY, I WILL
make sincere ammends for it, Hailey.

If you can tell me exactly what you object to in my
ADVICE to others, I'll review my teachings and change
them where possible to account for the sensitive feelings
of those who are inherently offended at the thought of
unconditional love trust and respect for all living
creatures.

Perhaps it was my comments in this childish post
which has hurt your sensitive feelings, Spanko.
Ooops! Did it again! Damn!

Old habits ARE hard to break, eh Hailey?:

From: TheAmazingPussyWiz...@HushMail.Com
Date: 30 Aug 2005 23:17:14 -0700
Subject: Re: Cat's Meow

HOWEDY hailey aka SPANKO,

Hailey wrote:
> I have a strange situation that's developed.

No you don't, spanko.

> Tucker is not in the least friendly to the kitties in the area.

Surprise surprise?

> We live really rurally, and we've caught two feral
> kitties and gotten homes from them (cus Tucker would
> have *nothing* to do with them! lol)

Because he's AFRAID because YOU ABUSE HIM, spanko.

> There is one more little feral, pretty sure it's
> a female. She's very small. Have no clue if she's fixed
> or not. Just a little about the kitty, now on to the
> interesting part... lol

The ONLY thing more UNNATURAL for a kat to
attack opposite sex kats is a kat messin in
his own HOWES.

> Tucker will hiss and spit at any other cat when
> they'd come around the RV. Even daughter's kitty, when
> they visit, who used to be Tucker's best friend before
> we sold our house last year and went on the road.

BECAUSE YOU ABUSE HIM, spanko.

> With this little grey feral, he races from
> window to window when she comes snooping around
> his territory. He does this freaky meow at her.

Like when he's attackin the plastic flowers in the livin room.

> It's like a gurgling kind of meow and it is LOUD!

He's in a PAINICK because HE CANNOT TRUST YOU
to PROTECT HIM because you're a SADIST, spanko.

> It doesn't sound at all threatening but we're
> curious as to what he's saying!

He's sayin HE'S AFRAID because you ABUSE HIM, spanko.

> LOL Does anyone out there speak kitty?

Don't have to SPEAK KITTY, spanko. All we gotta
do is READ YOUR OWN POSTED CASE HISTORY, spanko.

> He never uses this meow for anything else!

Unless he's attackin sumpthin.

> Is he trying to woo her?

He doesn't even get along with his former pal
of the opposite sex whom he GREW UP WITH because
YOU ABUSE HIM, spanko.

> Scare her off? Just talk to her???

He's TERRIFIED because you don't PROTECT HIM.

> Oh yeah, I should add that we've been unsuccessful
> in capturing this little feral thus far. The other two
> were fairly easy, but this one evades everything! I do
> offer her food and water every day and take it in at night
> (so as not to attract other beasts, which are plentiful!)
> Hailey

The following posts will clearly show ANY lucid
human being old enought to understand the concept
of SADISM what's WRONG with your kat, spanko:

Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
From: Hailey <Hai...@wavecable.com>

Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 22:54:59 -0700

Subject: Re: Help! My cat is freaking crazy!

The spray bottle is abusive? Oh good Lord! It's only water!

How is it abusive?

I haven't been reading the board long so I missed that one.

We use the spray bottle (water only) and it
helps Tucker when he's going nuts.

Helps him as much as us. And he's another that does
exactly as you described, with the digging at the carpet!
beats the alternatives.


=================

You mean HURT him somemore.

Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
From: Hailey <Hai...@wavecable.com>
Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 14:06:53 -0700
Subject: Re: Cat Paper - anyone else use this?

> Jack, the cat that buries air (and heat vents), used to be as obsessed
> with his food plate. He would find anything he could to cover his plate
> when finished, a paper towel, scrap of paper, kitchen towel, even icky
> meat wrappers from the trash can. He just always had to cover his
> plate. It was quite adorable, and I guess some kind of leftover from
> his feral days. He originated from a feral colony. But I guess he
> finally realized he doesn't have to hide it anymore and has stopped
> that.

So there is HOPE! LOL

When we lived in our house Tucker's constant burying
never bothered us. Now, in the RV, the small bathroom
is right next to the small bedroom and we hear him in
the small shower stall, where his litter pan is located,
at all hours of the night (and day) LOL

It esp drives hubby batty. I can roll over and forget
he's in there burying air. His food and water dishes
are outside the stall, and he buries both.

yep, Food and water! LOL

Food so much that I've begun to put his food dish
outside the bathroom door, around the corner in the
living room.

He still buries (with thin air more often than not)
but we can't hear him now.

He has easy access beneath the bathroom and bed room
doors as there is quite a clearance, so he comes and
goes, burying and burying LOL

Hailey

----------------

Your kat HIDES STUFF because he's INSECURE
and HE DON'T TRUST YOU, spanko.

From: Hailey <Hai...@wavecable.com>
Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 13:52:21 -0700
Subject: Pepsi

I have an interesting development with Tucker of late.
He doing some very odd things....

He has always attacked the fake flowers on the table,
it's a game with him, really. Drives me batty but he
likes it. He chews on the grasses and I will say his
name after which he mews at me and goes right at it.

This carries on for like three or four times and then
he leaps off the table to go terrorize something else.

His latest thing is going after my Pepsi. Now this one
is new and I am a little confused about why he'd do it.

Any ideas anyone?

He gets tons of attentions, has plenty of toys to play
with. So we're at a loss. He *does* want outside real
bad (he's indoor only). Could this be some kind of
acting out behavior since we won't let him out?

HELP! hehe

Hailey

============

Looks like your kat is UNHAPPY, spanko.
Perhaps you should just demand that he
stop that.

> Ms. Willow turns around and smacks the d*g who
> is heading to the water dish.
> I love my little girl...she's got moxie.
> --
> M~Elizabeth
> To Thine Own Self be True

hehehe I love that! "He gets up, shakes his head, and walks away."

I guess he knows! LOL

Hailey

I am still giggling at the thought of your kitty
laying in front of the pup's crate to show him
who was boss! I can so see this!

hehe
Good luck!

Hailey

Newsgroups: alt.parenting.spanking
From: Hailey <Hai...@wavecable.com>
Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 00:55:17 -0700

Subject: Re: Read it an weep....compulsives.

Doan wrote:
> On 22 Jul 2005 kane_poh...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> As time passes you'll see more and more states moving
>> away from the brutality of spanking children...paddling
>> they call it, and more and more the anti spanking agenda
>> prevail.
>
>> For instance, that old self reporting (R R R R...SELF
>> REPORTING? GIMME A BREAK) number of people saying they
>> were spanked, in the high 90%...is bogus as hell and
>> you know it.
>
> Self-reporting is bogus? What about the studies
> you cited, Kane0? So much for the honesty of a
> "never-spanked" boy like Kane0! ;-)
> Doan

maybe Kane wants letters from our parents.

=================
Your parents would DENY IT, DEFEND IT and LIE
about it, just like you do, spanko.

Newsgroups: alt.parenting.spanking
From: Hailey <Hai...@wavecable.com>
Date: Mon, 01 Aug 2005 20:59:47 -0700

Subject: Re: Who's right?

d*.@skat.usc.edu wrote:
> Don't you just love the "logic" of
> the anti-spanking zealotS? ;-)
> Doan

they clearly have not researched the historical
implications of when spanking became politically
incorrect.

Take a look.

once children obeyed and respected their elders,
parents especially. Once children were expected
to behave in acceptable ways or face the consequences,
yes.. from teachers, parents, elders in general.

Now children expect everything on a silver platter
and cry abuse if spoken to harshly. Spankings?

Oh my gosh! It's the worst kind of abuse!

LOL

Too bad it's not really laughable.

I can't wait to see what the next 20 years brings.
or.... is it because parents of the past *used* to
spank that we're in such dire straights now?

Highly unlikely.

:: jumps off her soapbox::

===============

Don't worry hailey, that noose around your
neck will prevent your from HURTIN yourself
when you fall off the box.

Newsgroups: soc.sexuality.spanking
From: "Haley" <spankthes...@mavaff.it>
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 20:46:44 +0200

Subject: Re: (none)

> Hailey wrote:
> > Brian G. wrote:
>
> >> If you are gonna spam, get it right first!
> >> Brian
> > LMBO! no kidding
>
> OK, says the newbie ... is that an SSS-specific
> version of LMAO, a bit more polite as spanko's
> tend to be?

Dunno... I personally use LMFAO, go figure.

Haley

All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer

"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.

"If you've got them by the balls
their hearts and minds
will follow,"
John Wayne.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >


Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
Animal Behavior Forensic
Sciences Research Laboratory,
BIOSOUND Scientific,
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092

The Puppy Wizard. <TPW;-)>

ANY QUESTIONS, DUMMIES?


,-._,-,
V)"(V
(_o_) Have a great day!
/ V)
(l l l) Your Puppy Wizard. <}YPW;~} >
oo-oo


Here's your FREE copy of The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual:


http://makeashorterlink.com/?G34D2527A


Just ASK The Amazing Puppy Wizard if you
need any additional FREE heelp. There's
NO arbritrary INFORMATION in your FREE
copy of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual
so study it well and do and follow ALL the
EXXXERCISES AS INSTRUCTED... it's a PRECISE
SCIENCE or it COULDN'T GET 100% CONSISTENT
NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS for all handlers and
all dogs in all fields or utilities and
behaviors all over the Whole Wild World <{) ; ~ ) >

"The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change,
Or They'd Not Be Scientific
And Could Not Obtain
Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Safe Effective Results
For All Handler's And All Dogs,
ALL OVER THE WHOLE WILD WORLD,
NEARLY INSTANTLY,
As Taught In Your FREE Copy Of The Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual."
The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >

ALL Critters Only Respond In
PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.

You GET The Critter You TRAINED

A DOG Is A Dog;
As A KAT Is A KAT;
As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES.

In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS


K*@gmail.com
2006-01-04 18:05:41 EST
I'm going with 3 again. Did I win?


A*@HushMail.Com
2006-01-04 20:46:30 EST
HOWEDY idocus,

k*s@gmail.com wrote:
> I'm going with 3 again.

Can you SHOWE us HOWE you arrived at that summation?

> Did I win?

Permit The Amazing Puppy Wizard to don HIS cipherin cloak an closhe <{)
: - [ >

Ahhhhh. There. That's better. Permit The Amazing
Puppy Wizard to COnsult HIS matheMAGICKIAN:

From: ThePuppyFaerie@AniMail.Net -
Date: 29 Nov 2005 15:20:48 -0800

Subject: Re: The Intelligence of Dogs

HOWEDY Ilanpi,

Re: The Intelligence of Dogs

i*.@yahoo.com wrote:
> Here is my 2 cents worth: http://cf.geocities.com/ilanpi/dog.html

In order to consider the value of Dr. Coren's
works with dogs we must recognize from WHERE
his basic understanding and beliefs come.

"We do not see things as they are;
we see things as we are." -- Talmud

As a traditional dog trainer and university trained
psychologist *(not even a behaviorist [which would
only further corrupt his thinking]) we MUST realize
that much of Dr. Coren's teachings and philosophies
are based on OTHER MISTAKEN SCIENTIST'S
*ERRONEHOWES WORKS, therefore his view poin
is NATURALLY *CONfHOWENED.

Dr. Coren is *abHOWET the BEAST in the industry.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard has IDENTIFIED EXXXPOSED
and DISCREDITED nearly EVERY professional trainer
and veterinary ethologist in the industry.

Here you'll find ALL the INFORMATION you need to know
to break the SPELL the traditional behaviorists and
psychologists have relied upon to SELL their services
and Master's Degree programs:

<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>

http://www.irishdogs.ie/Information/Wits_End_Dog_Training.pdf

"Problems cannot be solved at the same level
of awareness that created them. If you can't
explain it to a six year old, you don't
understand it yourself. We shall require a
substantially new manner of thinking if
mankind is to survive," -- Albert Einstein

The problem can be best understood by studying your
own words and applying the same problem solving LOGIC.
Just substitute the IDEA of dog or person in place of
pi or circle:

Problem: Prove that pi exists.

Well, the first problem is understanding what the problem is.

Indeed, even the compendium [L. Berggren, J. Borwein,
P. Borwein, Pi: A Source Book, Springer Verlag, New
York 1997] fails to provide a proof of pi's existence!

Basically, you need to figure out what the exact
definition of pi is, and then rigorously prove
that this defines a unique real number.

In effect, this problem is an exercise in mathematical rigor.

Sub Problem 1: What is the correct definition of pi?

Some people try to get around the technical difficulties
encountered in the proof below by defining pi in unusual
ways (e.g., Apostol in what is therefore his deficient
Calculus text defines pi as the area of a circle of radius
1), but you really can't get around the following:

Definition: Pi is the ratio of the circumference of
a circle to its diameter.

Now that the definition is settled, it's time to grapple
with the more subtle issue which is simply:

Sub Problem 2: Why does the above definition require
any kind of proof?

Now is the time to think deep thoughts.

Deep Thought Break.

The problem is that the circumference of a circle is
not a straight line, and it may be possible that its
length is infinite. If that were the case, then pi
would certainly not be defined, since it would not
be a real number (and Lemma 1 would be meaningless).

In other words, one must provide a completely rigorous
argument which shows that the circumference of a circle
is bounded above.

===================

"The intellect has little to do on the road to discovery.
There comes a leap in consciousness, call it intuition or
what you will, and the solution comes to you and you don't
know how or why." -- Albert Einstein

The following reviews of Dr. Coren's books are written
by The Amazing Puppy Wizard's highly respected FRIEND,
the notable Lee Charles Kelley, the only other reliable
source of dog training and behavior INFORMATION who not coincidentally,
is
likeWIZE as HATED and FEARED by the
DOG LOVERS here on The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Forums:

Smart Dogs, Dumb Authors, August 10, 2005
Reviewer: Lee Charles Kelley "dog trainer/mystery
novelist" (New York City) - See all my reviews

I couldn't even begin to count all the things Stanley
Coren gets wrong in THE INTELLIGENCE OF DOGS. For
instance, in one section he claims that dogs have the
ability to do math but in another part of the book he
claims they can't tell the difference between a tug
toy and human skin.

The first is clearly way beyond a dog's capacity,
while the second is something which comes totally
natural to them. How did Coren get things so backwards?

And the "intelligence" tests he provides have nothing
to do with intelligence but in how focused or driven
a dog is to do the test (or game) while you're doing it.

For instance, I tried one of the tests with my dog by
putting a piece of food under a towel, then waited to
see how long it took him to find the treat. I'd still
be waiting if I hadn't decided he'd never look under
that towel.

Then I tried the same game by teasing my dog with one
of his favorite toys. Then I hid it under the towel,
and it took him less than a second to get that toy.

So my dog is apparently both on the smarter and dumber
ends of Coren's intelligence spectrum. (This is just
one example, by the way: the whole idea of testing a
dog's IQ like this is bogus.)

And don't get me started on Coren's pedantic retelling
of the alpha myth. Granted, he wrote this book before
the latest research on wild wolf packs proved that
there's no such thing as a dominance hierarchy, or an
alpha wolf, or the rest of that alpha nonsense.

Though, I doubt if even that data would change Coren's mind.
After all, he seriously recommends rolling your dog over on
its back every day and pulling one of the animal's hind legs
in the air to create a posture which supposedly "signifies
submission to the pack leader." (Really? Dogs use "signifiers"
now?)

The funny thing is, shortly after reading that passage
I saw a wolf documentary on TV and the papa wolf did
the exact opposite or what Coren recommends! He rolled
over on HIS back and let the pups jump on top of him
and bite his nose! They loved it! So I tried what the
papa wolf did with his pups with my dog--an alpha male,
if there ever was one--and HE loved it. And later that
night, on our last walk, he was ten times as obedient
to me than he had been before I'd mimicked the papa
wolf's behavior.

Again, Coren had everything exactly backwards to reality.

This "through the looking glass" quality persists throughout
the book, with Coren even saying that dogs are capable of

hypothetical, symbolic, and conceptual thinking.

Wha..? I'm sorry. I love dogs and I think they have
wonderful abilities that should be honored and respected,
but the abilities they DO have are geared for being a dog,
not a mini-me with four legs and a tail.

For one thing, fully one third of a dog's brain is devoted
to processing olfactory information, and none to processing
symbols and concepts.

I think Coren needs to do a little more research on
comparative neuroanatomy and actual wolf behavior
before he makes more ridiculous claims like the ones
he made in this inane book.

Another Bogus Book from Coren, September 12, 2005
Reviewer: Lee Charles Kelley "dog trainer/mystery
novelist" (New York City) -

Do dogs understand language? Do they have their own
syntax and grammar? Stanley Coren thinks so. Or maybe,
as with many of his other books, he's only pretending
to believe what he says in order to pique people's
interest and sell more copies...

The words we use in dog training are actually irrelevant.

Since I train dogs in Manhattan, I often find myself
on an elevator with one or more dogs. When the door
closes I'll say, "What do we do on an elevator?" and
they'll all sit. This often charms and surprises the
other elevator occupants who may say something like,

"Look! They understand every word you say!"

Not really. I trained the dogs to do this by first saying
"What do we do on an elevator?-we sit." Once that pattern
was established, the dogs were able to make the leap from
"What do we do on an elevator?" to "Sit" quite easily.

In fact, I could have as easily trained them to do this
by using nonsense words, gobbledygook, ridiculous sounds
that have no meaning at all. So it isn't my words or
syntax the dogs are responding to, it's my intent, my
body language, my tone of voice (all carrying emotional
information), and a previously established pattern of behavior.

Stanley Coren should know this better than anyone since
one of his dogs is deaf, yet still obeys him. Why? Because
of his body language and a previously established pattern
of behavior, not because the dog "understands" his words.

Coren would say that the dog understands his hand signals
the same way the hearing-impaired understand sign language.
But looked at objectively it's far more likely that the
dog's response to hand signals is still just part of a
previously established pattern of behavior, not a linguistic
or cognitive process.

Coren would still disagree. He claims that certain
vocalizations made by dogs can be grouped together,
which he takes to mean that there's a kind of syntax
or grammar at work. I'm sorry, Stan, but real language
doesn't operate on such a simplistic level.

And while it may seem brave and controversial of Coren
(who has a degree in psychology, not linguisics or animal
behavior) to disagree with Noam Chomsky about the nature
of language, at this stage in the development of linguistic
science that's a bit like a high school sophmore disagreeing
with Sir Isaac Newton about gravity.

Look, it's fairly obvious to anyone who really understands
dogs that the reason certain yips, barks, growls, etc. are
sometimes used together and others aren't (which isn't always
true, by the way -- it depends on the dog), is that each
vocalization comes from an emotional, not a cognitive state.

In other words, certain emotions -- like fear and aggression -
- may be felt by the animal simultaneously, while others -
- calmness and fear -- can't be. It's not grammar or syntax,
it's emotion, pure and simple.

Even if Coren hadn't thought this through from an emotional
point of view, if he'd spent any time at all studying
comparative neuroanatomy he'd know that a dog's brain has
no Broca's area, which makes linguistic ability totally
impossible.

But as with other books he's written (his LEFT-HANDER
SYNDROME was notorious for being based on false data),
Coren doesn't seem to care much about the truth.

Still, I have to admit that it's hard not to buy into
this myth because as human beings we're constantly
explaining our feelings and experiences to ourselves
through our thoughts and inner monologues, or to others
through conversations, letters, etc. As a result we're
almost forced, by the way our brains work, to supply a
similar linguistic medium for a dog's feelings and
behaviors when no such medium or ability exists.

I trained my dog to respond in a certain way whenever
I ask him a certain question. And I have to admit, I
like the way it feels when I say to him, "Do you love me?"
and he wags his tail, comes over, puts his paws on my
chest, and licks my nose. Does he understand the meaning
of that sentence when I say it to him? Of course not.

But I know he understands the emotion.

It's a shame that Coren doesn't get this fundamental
difference between real linguistic understanding and
pure emotion, particularly when the misinformation he
disseminates in this book can be detrimental to the
relationship between you and your dog, a relationship
that SHOULD be based on real and, quite often, wonderful
emotions, not on any imaginary ability to use and understand
language.

If I could I'd give this book no stars at all.

LeeCharlesKelley.

> -ilan

"Two things are infinite: the universe and
human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the
the universe," - Albert Einstein.

KERRRRCHINNNGGGG!

Here's your change: $001.75.

Thank You! Please come again to The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEATLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Forums.

Yours,

Jerry *Howe, The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >

Punishment Deranges Behavior.
"NO!" Does NOT Have Any Behavioral Function
EXCEPT
To DERANGE Behaviors.

Here's professor dermer pryor:

From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST

And how do we know this aspect of his
advice is right?

Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.

(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
ill-mannered, or just plain ill.­),

--Marshall

"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.

BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!

That's INSANE. Ain't it.

Here's professor dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:

"We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People Should
Come To Their Senses And Support Your Valuable Work.
God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall Dermer,
Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI.

From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<*.@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM

Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,

I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.

You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent­,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts ­to
alert the world to animal abuse.

We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.

Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?

In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.

--Marshall Dermer

Subject: < BEFORE -> "Jerry, You filthy, Unctuous,
No Good Charlatan,"

< AFTER -> "Thank You Jerry For Putting Up With
A Constant Barrage Of Really Infantile
Crap At The Hands Of Supposedly Adult
Dog Lovers.

'Naive' Is Believing You Can Terrorize
A Dog Into Good Behavior," Robert Crim.

>Subject: Re: Fritz---a retrospective
>Date: 02/05/1999
>Author: Robert Crim <fritzg...@earthlink.net>
> You filthy, unctuous, no good charlatan. If you had
> any idea of what dogs and dog people were about
> you would realize the depths of the absolute loathing
> and contempt I hold for you right now. Were it not
> for the blessed distance and anonymity that the internet
> gives us from the scummy likes of you, I would probably
> be in a jail cell right now for turning you into the pile
> of shit you really are

Hey, Howe, you really are a wacko, eh?

Crim wrote this about *YOU,* you insipid piece of cow dung!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman

=====================

> On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:24:15 -0700, dogsnus

<"Terri"@cyberhighway> Wrote:>

> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> come forward and actually believe in his training manual.
Robert Crim writes:

I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope,
understood enough of the manual and it's counterparts by
John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
and use it.

This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.

The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.

To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.

Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use their real
names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.

"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.

Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.

> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
> actually admit to buying and having success with his
> little black box.

I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.

> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
> to him! LOL!

I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.

>Terri

Yes it was, and that is sad.

Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)

===========

Crim wrote THAT about *YOU,* tommy,
"you insipid piece of cow dung!"

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@mail.com>
Subject: Alleged Professors of Animal Behavior
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:50:51 -0400

Dear Jerry, I paged through some of the "dog business"
and was astonished at the low quality of opinions arising
from professors of behavior analysis.

I had the very great privilege of meeting Sam Corson
(Pavlov's last Ph.D. student) and his dogs at Ohio
University. I even got to spend a night at Sam's house.

There is no question but that you are a spiritual brother
to Corson and to Pavlov, both of whom knew that the dog's
great capacity for love was the key to shaping doggie behavior.

Paradoxical reward and paradoxical fixing of attention are
both well documented Pavlovian techniques. Even so humorless
a chap as B.F. Skinner taught students like the Breland's whose
"The Misbehavior of Organisms" demonstrate the utility of your
methods and their deep roots in scientific (as opposed to
commercial) psychology.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
you may find my resume in Who's Who in
Science and Technology

From: "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net>
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 17:26:31 GMT

Subject: Dr. George VonHilshimer Writes: "No Loving, No Learning."

HOWEDY People,

Perhaps the PROBLEM is "TOO MANY WORDS?"

From: "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net>
To: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 4:40 AM
Subject: Fw: Counter Cruising must stop

> From: "diannes" <dian...@bolt.sonic.net>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 12:18 PM
> Subject: Re: Counter Cruising must stop
> > LeeCharlesKelley <kelleymet...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > I wrote:
> > > > LeeCharlesKelley <kelleymet...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > > On another note: I understand why someone
> > > > > proclaiming a method that works on all dogs,
> > > > > all the time, would send up "red flag" to you
> > > > > and others, but the fact remains, if a technique
> > > > > *doesn't* work 100% of the time, with all dogs,
> > > > > then there must be a flaw in the philosophy
> > > > > underlying that technique.
> > > > Ditto for dog training. No failure nor flaw of method
> > > > is involved - that's just acceptance of reality.
> > > First of all, I didn't say that there was a flaw in the
> > > method, though anyone is welcome to make that
> > > leap.
> > > I said there was a flaw in the underlying philosophy
> > > and its model of learning.
> > Correction accepted. I think that perhaps we are using
> > terminology differently here. Here is my use of the terms:

Jerry, I don't know where you find these folk who can't read.

> In order to use negative reinforcement, one must
> typically administer the aversive stimulus in order
> to be able to terminate it.

This is not negative reinforcement. Negative means no.

Positive reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
reward emitted immediately by trainer;

Negative reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
no response by trainer;

Aversive reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
aversive stimuli emitted immediately by trainer;

The term "reinforcement is used only tentatively with
"aversion" because aversive stimuli (aka punishment)
typically derange learning and are not followed by clean
learning curves equivalent to those which follow reward
or positive reinforcement;

Escape conditioning = dog has an aversive stimulus
applied without any dog related reason and when
behavior is emitted aversive stim is immediately turned off .

There is some indication that Escape Conditioning
works in a manner closely approximating reward;
but, ear pinch? -- too aversive.

I remind you that you should beat them over the head
with "The Misbehavior of Organisms" by Breland and
Breland, published in B.F. Skinner's CUMULATIVE
RECORD. Ignored by most profs of psychology, but
the distillation of his work.

NO PUNISHMENT.

Must pay attention to who is the animal?

His evolution, his development, and his personal history -
cannot train without respect for who is the dog? So says
the BIG TIME operant conditioning guru - and you can also
refer back to MARY COVER JONES (mother of scientific
systematic psychology), no loving, no learning.

I suppose I could wire up a dog so that his brain was
badly interrupted and the loving method of puppy training
might not work well - but it would still work better than
the methods used by dominatrix and their ilk.

Lovingly applied ethological techniques like the one
espoused by the Wizard of ALL puppies work for all
dogs, for that matter for all mammals higher than cat.

Indeed, they will work for cats if trainer is warmly competent.

You can see this in Key West on any sunny day.
Housecats performing quite happily.

Fondly, Dr. Von

From: TooCool (larrym...@hotmail.com)
The Puppy Wizard's Wits End Training Method

I have studied canine behavior and dog training for
years. I have a huge library that covers every system
of training.

The Puppy Wizard's (Jerry Howe's) Wits' End Training
Method is by far the most scientific, the most advanced,
the kindest, the quickest and the most effective training
method yet discovered.

It is not an assortment of training tips and tricks; it is
a logically consistent system. Every behavior problem
and every obedience skill is treated in the same logically
consistent manner.

Please study his manual carefully. Please endeavor to
understand the basis of his system and please follow
his directions exactly. His manual is a masterpiece.
It is dense with theory, with explanation, with detailed
descriptions about why behavior problems occur and
how their solution should be approached.

One should not pick and choose from among his methods
based upon what you personally like or dislike. His is
not a bag of tricks but a complete and integrated system
for not only training a dog but for raising a loving companion.

When I once said to Jerry that his system creates for
you the dog of your dreams, his response was that it
produces for your dog the owner of his dreams.

You see, Jerry has discovered that if you are gentle
with your dog then he will be gentle with you, if you
praise your dog every time he looks at you, then you
will become the center of your dogs world, if you use
Jerry's sound distraction with praise, then it takes
just minutes-sometimes merely seconds-to train your
dog to not misbehave (even in your absence) (Just 15
seconds this morning to train my 10 week old puppy to
lie quietly and let me clip his nails).

Using Jerry's scientific method (sound distraction /
praise / alteration / variation) it takes just minutes to
train you dog to respond to your commands.

What a pleasure it was for me to see my 6 week old
puppy running as fast has his wobbly little legs would
carry him in response to my recall command-and he
comes running every time I call no matter where we are
or what he is doing.

At ten weeks old now, my puppy never strains upon
his leash thanks to Jerry's hot & cold exercises and
his Family Pack Leadership exercises.

Jerry has discovered that if you scold your dog, if you
scream at him, if you intimidate him, if you hurt him,
if you force him then his natural response is to oppose
you.

Is Jerry a nut?

It doesn't make any difference to me whether he is or not.
It is a logical fallacy to judge a person's ideas based
upon their personality. As far as dogs are concerned, Jerry
wears his heart upon his sleeve. It touches him deeply when
he hears of trainers forcing, intimidating, scolding or
hurting dogs.

More than that, he knows that force is not effective
and that it will certainly lead to behavior problems;
sometime problems so severe that people put their
dogs down because of those problems.

I believe that it is natural for humans to want to control
their dog by force. Jerry knows this too. We have all been
at our wits' end, haven't we?

Dogs have a natural tendency to mimic. In scientific
literature it is referred to allelomimetic behavior. Dogs
respond in like kind to force; they respond in like kind
to praise.

Don't bribe your dog with treats; give him what he
wants most-your kind attention. Give him your praise.
You will be astonished at how your dog 's anxiety will
dissipate and how their behavior problems will dissipate
along with their anxiety.

Treat Jerry Howe's (The Puppy Wizard) Wits' End
Training Method as a scientific principle just as you
would the law of gravity and you will have astounding
success.

Dog behavior is just as scientific as is gravity.

If you follow Jerry's puppy rules you will get a sweet
little Magwai; if you don't you will surely get a little
gremlin (anyone see The Gremlins?). --Larry

From: Mike (m.bidd...@ns.sympatico.ca)
Subject: Re: Info. on the puppy wizard?
Date: 2004-07-18 14:27:02 PST

> > Oh, and did I mention his methods work, ya nuff said.
> > Mike
> Ok Mike which part worked for you?

It helped clear problems from my dogs in the
field using the can penny distraction technique.

Works like a charm.

My dogs get distracted easy from their jobs ie,
retrieving or training to find lost people, oh did
I mention that I am a Search and Rescue Team
Leader.

Sorry that slipped my mind.

I have read volumes of training books and don't
know where people get that Jerry copied others
work as I have NEVER come across his methods
before. I would like to see proof.

Just like Jerry outlined I eliminated problems one
at at time as they arose. I used to try and train to
the way I wanted them but this is backward, you
train out the problems leaving what you want left over.

Funny part is the second dog who had the same
problems as the other didn't need correcting for
some of his habits after I cleared it from the first
dog.

Seemed he learned through osmosis.

Nice side benefit there.

It nearly came to giving them up to a 3rd party
trainer as they were not performing well. The
VAST majority of working dog trainers are
agressive in their actions with the dogs.

I tried it and it didn't work and guess what I
was at my "Whits End" then someone I new
turned me onto Jerry and the rest is history.

I referred friends and families to Jerry's manual
and all have had great results. Starting puppies
out on the distraction technique is especially
good because they never develop the habit.

I had my sisters dog healing, sitting and down
stay reliably at 8-9 weeks. The first night home
following Jerrys advice we ditched the crate and
put the pup on the floor beside the bed and after
2 whimpers NOT A SOUND OUT OF THAT DOG
FOR 6 HRS! first night, that has never happened
in all my days.

Sorry, the man understands dogs its that simple.

Mike

"*.@DCFWatch.com" wrote:

No, the dog learned that I would hold still
the second she began to pull. She would pull
to go where *she* wanted.

Well if she wanted to stop and go in another
direction.. say to sniff my neighbors yard..

she learned if she wanted to do it I would stop
walking and she could go.. and if there wasn't
enough slack on her lead she would just pull me.

Then when she got done doing *her* thing, she woudl
heel.. smile at me and wait for me to say "let's go"
and finish *my* thing. I would refuse to move .. i
looked like an idiot.. freezing mid walk for minutes
waiting for *my* dog to heel and give *me* permission
to go again.

I did the treats and the let's go... she got to do her
stuff and get a cookie.. if she even wanted the cookie.

I wound up calling Jerry.. as I have a half red nose
pit and half amstaff.. who is incredibly protective..

we had a new pup on the way.. and i needed help.. i
followed petsmarts trainnign guides.. memorized them...
and they *did* work, don't get me wrong.. but only
when my pet wanted a cookie or felt the cookie was
better than what she wanted.. which was not often.

She quickly learned to ignore my commands if she
could see my hands were empty. So I called Jerry...
he chatted me for about an hour and a half.. gave me
his link... and even when i had probs intro'ing the
pup he called me withn i5 mins of my email for help
at 10pm on a sunday night.

One.. singular.. uno family pack exercise after
the hot and cold exercise and i could zig zag
down my street.. about face .. whatever.. and
never had tension.

two men were acrossed the street and she walked right
by them... ordinarily she'd snarl and protect us.

And in two days.. my dog.. who bit the puppy if he
even looked like he was going near my husband or kids..
is nursing him every hour.. cleaning him.. rough housing
gently.. and teaching him to go potty outside..

actually watches him to make sure he doesn't go in
the house... and has milk.. which is awesome since
she's 19 months old and has never had a litter.

She also has stopped barking non stop at our neighbor's
dogs and pig.. does not bark at eveyr car that drives by
and has stopped jumping on people. she's even starting
to ignore our cat who has lived on her dome litter box
and our window sill (literally) for over a year and a half.

She also does her commands on cue.. and doesn't look for a treat.

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
Subject: The Amazing Jerry's take on psychobabble
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:13:44 -0400

You might improve the learning of folk who actually
live with and train dogs to do useful things if you
excluded everyone who uses psychobabble from your lists.

I recommend to all of you who wish to taste the flavor
of sensible animal behaviorists to read THE MISBEHAVIOR
OF ORGANISMS, Breland and Breland.

This married pair of psychologists began the long trail
of highly trained animals who are symbolized by Shamu
eating a mackrel from a girl's hand instead of eating
the much more tasty pretty girl who is exactly the size
of the natural food of killer whales, seals. Yum!

The essay, by the way, is a chapter in B.F. Skinner's
summing up book, CUMULATIVE RECORD. They include a
sentence which more or less says, "unless you understand
the personal history of the particular animal, and the
history of this animal's species and group, the developmental
history of the animal, you cannot effectively train the animal.

Pigs root and hen's scratch, if you try to train hens without
scratching or pigs without scratching or pigeons without pecking,
you aren't going to have much success.

A conditional reflex is one which is learned, the original
primitive reflex occurs no matter what the history of the
animal, and is hard wired. If you train the animal to respond,
say by ringing a bell immediately before turning on a bright
light, then you've taught the animal and made his native reflex
of pupil constriction conditional upon the ringing of a bell.

Thorndyke added some terminology to this kind of training
and insisted that when you train the animal to make gross
motor responses that this learning is "instrumental", the
animal takes action and uses an instrument.

The Russian word translated as "conditional" in all other
contexts was mistranslated by Pavlov's American translator,
Horsley Gannt, as "conditioned" and so American psychology
went haring after phantasmagora.

The major theorists for the development of the language of
operant conditioning are Edward Thorndike, John Watson, and
B. F. Skinner. Their approach to behaviorism played a major
role in the development of American psychology.

They proposed that learning is the result of the application
of consequences; that is, learners begin to connect certain
responses with certain stimuli. This connection causes the
probability of the response to change (i.e., learning occurs.)

Thorndike labeled this type of learning instrumental. Using
consequences, he taught kittens to manipulate a latch (e.g.,
an instrument). Skinner renamed instrumental as "operant"
because in this learning, one is "operating" on, and is
influenced by, the environment. Where classical conditioning
illustrates S-->R learning, operant conditioning is often
viewed as R-->S learning since it is the consequence that
follows the response that influences whether the response
is likely or unlikely to occur again.

It is through operant conditioning that
voluntary responses are learned.

One should note that Russian Psychology did very well
without the operant language, and only pettifogging
university professors ought to worry about what kind
of label we attach to the learning. Pfui!

Even Skinner understood this!

And please note if you saw the original movie, THE
MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE, you saw a Chinese psychologist
who was based on Andrew Salter, CONDITIONED REFLEX
THERAPY.

Alas, Salter didn't have a Ph.D., but he basically rescued
us from the long Freudian nightmare and returned psychotherapy
to a scientific basis. Alas, the 2nd movie didn't even cite
Salter as a source. "...all the highest nervous activity, as
it manifests itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a
continual change of these three fundamental processes --
excitation, inhibition and disinhibition." Ivan P. Pavlov

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

What's important is, "does Shamu reliably eat
the fish and not the pretty girl?"

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com
To: <d...@arcane-computing.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:38 PM
Subject: Doggy advice

Scott, Jerry Howe forwarded me the letter below.
I'm glad that you referred negatively to Jerry's
habit of CAPITALIZING and HOWEING everything.

I personally hate this habit of his. I think it is his
way of diluting his authority - IME he is a very modest
fellow. However, contrary to your sneer, he is very
competent at living with dogs.

I thought I'd list a series of actions which I found
on the list, folk asking advice on what to do about
dogs doing this and that, for example:

whining,
humping, hunching,
pacing,
self mutilation - paw licking, side sucking,
spinning,
prolonged barking, barking at shadows,
overstimulated barking,
fighting, bullying other dogs,
compulsive digging,
compulsive scratching,
compulsive chewing,
frantic behavior,
chasing light, chasing shadow,
stealing food,
digging in garbage can,
loosing house (toilet) training.
inappropriate fearfulness
aggression.

The thing that is fascinating to me, as an ethologist who
graduated from college 50 years ago and has spent all of
the intervening time working with animals (including the
human animal), is that you never see any of these behaviors
in wild dingoes, jackals, coyotes or wolves, you don't even
see these behaviors in hyenas (who aren't dog related).

You see these behaviors in human managed animals, especially
animals who live with neurotic hysterical humans.

As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving
care.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine

"Linda" <llindaleedan...@msn.com wrote in message
news:

I have been trying for the last 18 months to help my
dog who became fear aggressive at 18 month of age.
I do not know what started the problem but he came
aggressive first with dogs and then began lunging and
snapping at people. Until this time he loved everyone
and could play with any dog. He was well socialized
ad I took him with me everywhere.

At 13 months he passed the Canine Good Citizens
Test except he could let me leave him. I had used
clicker training to teach him manners and tricks but
it was not working on his aggression problem.

I took him to vets who suggested a low protein diet,
trainers who charged $800 to only make him worse.
They tried to use a prong collar and he froze, urinated
and tried to climb on my head to help him. they then
suggested a shock collar I knew this approach was not
working as he was becoming more aggressive.

I took him to an animal behaviorist with Ph. D. 400 miles
away who told me to "KEEP HIM SAFE" and read a book
on the fearful canine. I tried another trainer who tried to
use a nylon chock collar but it only made him worse.

I read hundreds of books,"CULTURE CLASH", "DOG
ARE FROM NEPTUNE", "THE OTHER END OF THE
LEASH", ETC looking for help. We finally went to Purdue
University Small Animal Behavior Clinic and they said he
had fear aggression, punishment would not work, use the
gentle leader and when out walking and he got stressed
have the people stop until he could get in control using
treats, and work on clicker training.

At that point I knew more about clicker training and using
the gentle leader than they did! Nothing was working--he
would not come when I called him and would run away when
I tried to catch him. I was afraid to walk him even in the
neighborhood as we had become that "mean dog and women who
hasn't trained her dog"

I went to four trainers in both Michigan and Florida who
were trainer/specialists in aggression and the last two
were so afraid of him they could not approach him. No one
said I should give up on him and kill him but they would
say "You have to realize he is dangerous and you are
responsible for him."

*(You got LUCKY, Linda... They coulda got Sunshine
DEAD on us. Damned near did... too.)

As last resort I tried the internet again--I had had on
going discussions with trainers from Triple Crown and Dr
Meister with out any help-and I found the ad to Doggy Do
Right and messaged Jerry to ask if this might help my dog.
He said solving the aggression problem was EZ but I could
not believe him even when I downloaded the manual.

The name of the method was right I was at my Wits End.
I had been working for 18 months!

Using the can sound three time he came, and still comes
from anywhere with the command-"comegoodboy" Next
I tried the can when walking him--when he saw a dog three
blocks away he went off-lunging and snapping-I used the
can sound and he looked at me like uhn?

I used it three more times and we got to the other dog-
-the looked at me wagging his tail--the other person
looked at me like why are shaking that can but just walked
on by.

When ever I try to explain about the sound people look at
me like "you must be out of your mind"

The results can make a believer!!!

Three weeks since beginning the Wits End Training
Manual program I walked him without the gentle leader
in a busy shopping area with many dogs.

He just seemed to not notice any one.

When people talked to him or ask his name he would
look at then and wag his tail and let then pet him.

I still can not believe the change in him--we can now
enjoy life out in public.

If I had not found the Wits End method I know there
was no hope for him and he would have hurt someone
Through all this he never growled at me, guarded his
toys or food or showed any sign of aggression with me.

My goal is to get the message out to all dog lovers that
dogs can be trained fast, easily and problems solved with
out force, pain, food or anything but sound and praise!!!!

I know most people would have given up on him a long time
ago but he was and is my life. Solving the problem was EZ
but only with the right approach-sound and praise.

I know because I tried everything else and nothing worked!!!

================================

From: Linda Daniel
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:06 AM
Subject: Re: - Re: dog aggression

Thanks for writing--I would be happy to do almost anything
to get your approach out to dog owners as I know it would
save so many lives. I know at times I was so frustrated I
thought of giving up on Sunshine but of course I never would
have but many people would have. The world just does not
know you can train a dog in just a few sessions and actually
solve problems.

We will be here until late April and we really have no plans-
-just to enjoy the warmth and sun of Florida, so any time
you could meet us would be great. I drive so I would be
happy to come to you anytime anywhere!

We went to Celebration today and two little poodles got
right into his face and he just sat there--I GOT a little
scared but he handled it just fine.--a couple of times people
would ask his name and want to pet him and he just went
to them tail wagging and rolled over for them rub his tummy.

He really just is not concerned about people passing, even
those on rollerblades! I have always used a gentle leader
in public but he spent most of time rubbing his face on the
grass--today I used his collar and he was so much happier!!

Only problem is he will stop to smell and I can not get
stopped soon enough to keep the leash loose. He never
pulled ahead of me but when he gets into smelling I have
a hard time getting him going--at times I think he could
smell a blade of grass for 10 minutes.

I can never thank you enough for giving Sunshine back!!!!!

I wrote to Purdue and told them about him being able to
walk in a crowd with out the /gentle leader and not having
a problem with other people and dogs.

I told them their advice did not work. Their advice was
to use the gentle leader at all times and when he was
around people or dogs to have him sit and reward with
treats--one really good suggestions was to have people
coming toward us stop when he got stressed or aroused
and not move until we backed away-

- can you just see me yelling at people to stop on the street
until I get his attention with treats.

They also suggested the possibility of using drugs-prozac-
but thought he was too dangerous as the drug would make
him less fearful and then he might attack or become more
sure of himself and become dominate aggressive. Just had
to share their great advice with you but I am sure you have
heard it all--even I am becoming an expert on bad advice.

----------------------------------

("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
(((' (((-((('' ((((

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/, ~-,__,,,.'~ ,-;;--''
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(,_..----''' (,..--''

Meow

/),,/)
( ' ; ')
(,,)-(,,)

/),,/)
(' ; ') kiss me
(,,)-(,,)

/),,/)
( ; ' ) kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)

/),,/)
( ; ) kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)

/)
( * ) and KISS ME HERE!
(,,)-(,,)
The Amazing Pussy Wizard <{@); ~ } >

<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>

http://www.irishdogs.ie/Information/Wits_End_Dog_Training.pdf

Please DON'T BE The Amazing Pussy Wizard's PREY.

IT AIN'T PRETTY.

<(@}; ~ } >


B*@gmail.com
2006-01-05 07:44:55 EST
I'm glad I didn't read any of that tripe above. What a filibuster.
Maybe his copy/paste key is stuck.


A*@HushMail.Com
2006-01-05 13:10:55 EST
HOWEDY bringmewater,

b*r@gmail.com wrote:
> I'm glad I didn't read any of that tripe above.

Yeah. That'd make you FEEL awful freakin STUPID.

> What a filibuster.

WOULDN'T IT.

> Maybe his copy/paste key is stuck.

Lemme see...

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?

> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.

> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.

> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>

From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST

Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.

Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

---------------

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day

Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.

Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.


From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14

B*.@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<*.@bellsouth.net>:

> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.

Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.

Why did you blow it?

--Matt

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????

Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?

I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.


"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918australianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.

> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.

> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

From: "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com>
Date: 2 Dec 2005 10:55:41 -0800
Subject: Re: In defense of Jerry Howe's methods

Mary Healey wrote:
> I'm still asking for 5 original posts from people here at least 5
> years to support your initial contention (NOT HURTING DOGS TO TRAIN

THEM). You're 0 for 2, so far.

That's 2 in 2 as far as I'm concerned but hey, if you insist. I'm
really curious to see what will be the justification this time. So far
we have:

Limited choking? Hey, it's limited, As Neo would say: Woah, there is no

choke.

Dogs pumped full of prozac? Hey, they're trippin man. Remember
Woodstock. Euh.... Woodwhat?

E-Collar? I'm sure some of you will come up with: But my dog look so
pretty with an electrified perm. Swoooon.

So on with the fun. Taken from the "Collars" thread, started by Perry
Templeton June 20 2005

Denis

----------

On 26 Jun 2005 10:52:42 -0700, lucyaa...@claque.net, wrote:

> What does the "choke" in the "choke chain" stand for, then?
> Lucy

one reason I call them slip collars. Their is a correction involved,
and while it causes momentary discomfort, does not choke the dog.
OTOH, it is CAPABLE fo being used to do that, should a situation
warrant it.
--
Janet B
----------

And here's another one from the same author,
taken from the same thread.

----------

167. Janet B
Jun 21, 12:03 pm show options
On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:40:11 +0100, "Alison"

<*.@XYZallofus2.fsnet.co.uk>, wrote:
> I'm just wondering why you had to use choke chains to train"your
> dogs especially as they are so small.

Oh geez - let's see - how many JRTs act like alligators at the end of
a leash? I personally prefer prong collars.

----------

Let's go for the hat trick with the same author, taken from the same
thread:

----------

141. Janet B
Jun 27, 10:01 pm

I don't use choke chains. Not quite true - I use a jeweler's hex link
on Franklin at times - it's puuuuuurty. I know the "sound" thing
and all, and when training a dog in a non-group setting, that sound
may be a factor, but I think it fails in the context of a group class.

So, I prefer the better fitting nylon slip collars, and very often,
pinch collars (small link unless it's a freaky dog, then they need
the milder medium link).

But I use e-collars too. With one of my dogs and with some clients.
For circumstances where a physical collar and leash is not the right
answer. I'm sure Lucy has no clue what THAT means!
--
Janet B
----------

Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what would be the
> > point? Where I come from, choking is choking. It's never
> > limited.

> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs. Thank you for
> your contribution.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

Deltones wrote:
> Rocky wrote:
> > "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> > rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> > > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > > is choking. It's never limited.

Not so in PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING, Deltones.

> > So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> > Thank you for your contribution.

> > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

Looks like you've pushed the mental cases over the edge again...

> Well, I think you carefully avoided quoting the last part of my post.
> You know the one about a bunch of little Colonel Parker doing Elvis's
> out of their dogs? Oh right, limited choking is not abuse, and pumping
> dogs full of drugs to make them behave ain't either in your world huh?
> For the benefit of our gentle readers, here's the part you forgot to
> quote:
> ----------
> Oh, what the hell. Check out a thread started around Nov 23 called
> "Help with a Nuerotic Hound..." where I wonder if you guys are talking
> about dogs or Woody Allen's pharmacy. I'll stick with praises and noise
> distraction to train my dog, thank you.
> ----------

HOWEDY janet,

Looks like you and your pals have gone totally INSANE again:

Janet B wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 14:44:14 -0500, Janet B
> <j...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com>, clicked their heels and said:

> > Since you quoted me repeatedly, where does it say I beat dogs, choke
> > dogs, scream at dogs, etc? Thanks for your clarification.

> responding to my own post, I had to go back and look at the original
> post, to remind myself what "we" are all accused of doing:
> "screaming, choking, shocking, pinching, beating the living crap
> out of your dogs"

> Scream? no

> Choke? no

> Shock? e-collars are a lot more sophisticated than that
> Pinch? if you want to classify a momentary discomfort by a prong
> collar, go ahead, but unless you have first hand experience with one,
> your opinion means nothing

> Beat the living crap out of? hardly - no hitting exists

"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction"
--Janet Boss

"Janet Boss offered a pat on the back, commenting that
ultimately it wasn't Kate's decision. Whose was it? I asked.
Why, it was Teena's, averred Janet.

Janet was in an exculpatory frame of mind because she
contributed to this travesty herself, by advising Kate to
repeat the aggression trigger (grooming) on a daily basis.

It's all in the archives.

Now these two are spouting off about what kind of e-collars
they like to use on their dogs. Well, I've got an AC Delco
model that would be just right for Janet or Kate. BZZZZzzt!
I'd have to find it though, and I can't remember if I left
it in my underground bunker or the crawlspace under my
house," Charlie.

"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828.07753.00000001@mb-m18.aol.com...

> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss

"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...

> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916.10096.00001938@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.

An INSENSITIVE DOG???

> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.

captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A
ResoundingSound Distraction: "When You Chuck The Dog
The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To The Ears And
Give A Popping Sound To The Dog."

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

"Reliable Punishment Cycles, Different Thresholds To Pain And
Punishment, High Tolerance For Correction, Escalation Of Correction
To A Level Where The Dog Yelps When You Punish Him, Thus Making
The Experience One Which The Dog Will Want To Avoid In The Future,"
grant teeboon, RAAF.

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."

THAT'S sumpthin to be PR-HOWED abHOWET.

"BethF" <b...@NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.com>
wrote in message
news:v4r8kkfr257e1a@corp.supernews.com...

Kyle, FWIW, i thought it was pretty funny,
and i often call my little dog the turd, because
he is one. Some folks think its HORRRIBLE i
would insult my dog like that so i guess its just a
matter of personality.

Kyle, the best way to teach him to stay away is to
step on him once. Seriously.

"Whatever Motivates The Dog, But I Daresay Most
Of The Dogs I Have In Classes Just Aren't That
Interested In Praise."

"BethF" <d...@alaska.com> wrote in message
news:uohnj3r4a4e85e@corp.supernews.com...

Maybe that's what we should do - hold back the dobie
girl so that Izzy can put Simon in his place.

"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness," mustang sally.

"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.

This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.

Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
Subject: Re: shock collars

Sally Hennessey <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message

news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63h8ekqiforibadrff2@4ax.com...

Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-
righteous, this post shows and absence of knowledge
in the differences in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps
a lack of ability to perceive same.

The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to
whom corrections and discomfort, even pain, were
unimportant does not mean that such dogs do not exist.

What it means is that you don't know as much about
dogs as you think you do, and you surely don't know
a damn thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.

I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with
one of her housemates; that dog had no fear or
anything, and pain incurred during a fight meant
nothing to her.

I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that
you, Alison, continue to say things to people such as
what you said to Theresa about causing her dog to
suffer (at least I guess that's what you meant by
"you cause your dog suffers" - - must be the King's
English you guys talk about over there) means that
you are an ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person
who is not worth further notice.

Sally Hennessey

"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv128jnumgmb2m27opr@4ax.com...

Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.

I'm starting to see some similarities here.

Sally Hennessey

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?

> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.

> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918australianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.

> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.

> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST

Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.

Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

---------------

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day

Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.

Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14

B*.@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<*.@bellsouth.net>:

> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.

Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.

Why did you blow it?

--Matt

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????

Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?

I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

PERHAPS your mentally ill daddy or mammy will
come bye an give you another pretty cool spankin?:

"CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready Right Hand,

As it catches on, try using the stick and no ear pinch.

If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin,
say "No! Hold!"," lying frosty dahl.

"Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them more
sharply.

REPEAT, VARYING HOW HARD YOU HIT THE DOG.

Now you are ready to progress to what most people think of
as force-fetching: the ear pinch.

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so urgent that
resisting your will fades in importance.

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to
escaping the ear pinch even get a studded collar and pinch
the ear against that if the dog still does not open its mouth,
get out the shotshell.

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the
collar, even the buckle on the collar.

Persist! Eventually, the dog will give in

With your hand on the collar and ear, say, 'fetch.'

Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick.

Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy.
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell instead of your
thumb; Say 'fetch' while pressing the dummy against its lips
and pinching its ear," lying frosty dahl.

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

sinofabitch writes:
> >> What I have said- repeatedly - is that he took
> >> posts from two different people,

Of curse THAT'S a lie.

> >> took pieces of them out of context,

Of curse. QUOTED. You wanna see it in context?

> >> cobbled them together,

No. There was WON DIRECT QUOTE.

> >> then added his own words:

"Neatly," and "Smartly."

> >> and a fake signature.

"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.

> >> Which is exactly what he did.

INDEEDY. That's HOWE COME you deny it.

> >> The actual quote is misleading

That so?

> >> when taken out of context,

We'd been talkin abHOWET beatin the dog with a shoe...

> >> and Jerry's faked "quote"

The WON sinofabitch totally DENIES.

> >> is downright meaningless.

Only if you're a MENTAL CASE.

> > Here's Jerry's version
> > "I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
> > Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
> > Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
> > Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
> > Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
> > Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
> > Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.

> > Here's yours;

> > "I dropped the leash, threw my
> > right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
> > grabbed her opposite foot with my
> > left hand, rolled her on her side,
> > leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
> > nipped her ear.
> > --Sara Sionnach

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

See?

From: Mark Shaw (m...@bangnetcom.com)
Subject: Re: Fido-Shock
Date: 2002-04-10 14:12:18 PST
In article <gWLs8.203228$af7.101030@rwcrn­­­­sc53>,

"Coleman Brumley" <clbrum...@home.com> wrote:
>Has anyone had experience with this product (Fido-Shock).
>If so, what model number, voltage, etc.?

If you're talking about the pet-grade hotwire system, I have
one. It's to keep boarded dogs out of my flowers.

> I have a 1.5 year St Bernard who is scaling (not clearing --
> more like falling over) our 4 foot fence to visit with owners
> walking their dogs. I thought of raising the fence a foot or
> so, but don't think that'll solve the problem. I've tried
> watching her outside, and give a stern "NO" when she
> props on the fence for a peek over it. No avail.
> I've heard this product works after just a couple of tries.

I take it you're considering running the wire across the top
of the fence? I don't think I'd recommend that, although it
may be worth a try. Watch closely -- the one case where I saw
a hotwire used in this fashion caused the dog undue stress and
frustration, and he tried even harder to get over the fence.
So be prepared to take it down right away.

That was a Dane, though. With a Saint things might be different.
--
Mark Shaw

Subject: Re: Video clip......."Nero" practicing
bark alert, while walking backwards
Date: 2004-06-05 18:53:50 PST

"micha el" <spam_yurs...@spamyourmamma.co­­­­m> wrote in message

news:yIydnZpPsIzg6l_d4p2dnA@comcast.com...

Anyway, contrary to your PR, this is what it felt
like to me when I got shocked by Hope's collar.

It felt like a bomb going off in my hand and forearm.

------------------------------­­­­--

"Tricia9999" <tricia9...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021117101433.10365.00000067@mb-cg.aol.com...

> how effective are these electronic fences in
> keeping a dog on a property????

Some run through it. Others get shocked and become
too scared to go out in the yard anymore.

Just heard of a guy that has to rehome his dog,
because the dog got caught right in the path of
the shock and will now not go near his person,
won't go outside.

Just hides under a desk in the house.

**************

BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHHAAAA!!!

"I'd call the SHOCK fence effective and safe.
Humane is one of those hot words that people
can debate all day so I won't touch that one.
There are people who would call a regular chain
link fence inhumane," liea altshuller.

"I know this is a hard subject to bring up without
starting the whole cruelty thread again so I'll
state my opinion once and won't defend it further:
any method can be cruel for some dogs.

Even the slightest punishment was wrong for Cubbe at the
beginning, but we've come a long way since then.

She trusts us now as I mentioned in a recent post.

Point is, she's been rewarded for coming, but she's
never been punished, even in the mildest way, for
not coming.

Is it time for that?

What might I look for to tell?"

"Julia Altshuler" jaltshu...@comcast.net
wrote in message news:McYnb.45145$ao4.106231@attbi_s51...

After talking with the vet yesterday and watching
Cubbe all day today, I'm convinced that the shaking
is behavioral, not physical. Naturally I'll continue
keeping an eye on her, but when I add everything
up, I don't see symptoms of anything neurological--
and the vet agrees.
--Lia

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.
- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar," Lynn K.

"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs. It's a safety
necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

"Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.

<except when it is>

"So what? Whoever said that it's right to
always not confront? We sure can try, but
a dog who knows a command and growls when
given it is certainly being confrontational".
You can't simply walk away and pretend it
didn't happen or leave it for later work in
every situation."
Lynn K.
--------------------------------------

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.
---------------------------------

"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:

"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20

g*.@my-deja.com wrote:
> How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.

Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.

"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.

Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."

8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).

If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.

This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.
---------------------------------

"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.

Should I have refused to groom them?

Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."

Lynn K.

Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
<news:04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews>...

Lynn, looks like he got you there if these quotes are true.

In the posts below you take responsibility for making those calls.

In your post above, you state you do not make those calls.

Which one is it?

WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day
For Twenty Years

I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-depression)
requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every
day.

I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn
more, while happily sharing pertinent information
I have learned. But if I were ever to post such sh*t,
I would hope that every other reader of this group
would be rightfully outraged."

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the
easily understood rules and contributing to in
constructive ways."

Lynn K.

-----------------------------------------

Paxil Princess psychoclown wrote:

"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
things is something you twisted out of
context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."

"Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them more
sharply.

REPEAT, VARYING HOW HARD YOU HIT THE DOG.

Now you are ready to progress to what most people think of
as force-fetching: the ear pinch.

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so urgent that
resisting your will fades in importance.

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to
escaping the ear pinch even get a studded collar and pinch
the ear against that if the dog still does not open its mouth,
get out the shotshell.

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the
collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist! Eventually, the
dog will give in

With your hand on the collar and ear, say, 'fetch.'

Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick.

Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy.
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell instead of your
thumb; Say 'fetch' while pressing the dummy against its lips
and pinching its ear," lying frosty dahl.

LYNN K. and LOIS E, and a BiLateral, BiPolar
conversation on Mental problems. LYNN AND LOIS
Almost 50 years on mental illness medications combined

> But I think what Lois was referring to
> was the fact that Darlene actually
> stated at some point that she was
> bipolar--and, IIRC, that meds did not work
> for her--so she was prone to major-league
> ups and downs and sudden
> enthusiasms..

"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."

Lynn K.

LYNN K. and the UNQUIET MIND

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/03

BoxHill wrote:
> I know I am totally off topic here, but have you read
> "The Unquiet Mind"?

Yeah. It's interesting, but kind of
watered down for the mass market, if
you know what I mean. There's really
quite a lot of good work out there and
decent research. Thank God.

Lynn K.
---------------------------------------

MOTHER AND CHILD REUNION
"KUCKOO!! CUCKOO!!!"
MOTHER (LOIS E.) 22 YEARS on TRICYCLICS
DAUGHTER BIPOLAR...

YOU DO THE MATH

"What's really terrific,
is now days you can say proudly,
'I take anti-depressives'"

From: Gary & lois Edwards (g...@bmi.net)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/02

BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS

"I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics
for about 22 years. Been there, done that, have
the t-shirt to prove it. What's really terrific,
is now days you can say proudly,

"I take anti-depressives". Back when I started
taking them it was seen as something shameful.
If you cut your leg off, and were lying there with
a bleeding stump, you'd never let the word
depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
"You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have
any pain meds.....you could become addicted."

The good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt who's
father locked her in her room back in the twenties
because she was simple. A shame that medication
probably would have helped her live a normal life.

No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's
personality, she has a way of making grandiose
plans when at the top of her manic cycle....as
does my daughter. I wasn't saying that anyone
with problems could be counted on to be
irresponsible."

Lois E.
-------------------------------------

DECENT PEOPLE DO NO POST HERE abHOWETS:

Here's professor dermer pryor:

From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST

And how do we know this aspect of his
advice is right?

Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.

(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
ill-mannered, or just plain ill.­),

--Marshall

Here's professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM research
at UofWI marshall "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM "NO!"
into ITS face for five seconds and lock IT in a
box for ten minutes contemplation" dermer:

"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

******IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?*******

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.

BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!

That's INSANE. Ain't it.



"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?

> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.

> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
> > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
> > is choking. It's never limited.

> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>

From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST

Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.

Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

---------------

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day

Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.

Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.


From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14

B*.@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<*.@bellsouth.net>:

> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.

Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.

Why did you blow it?

--Matt

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????

Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?

I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.


"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918australianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
>
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.

> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.

> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!.


I*@Inbox.Com
2006-01-06 16:10:54 EST

b*r@gmail.com wrote:
> I'm glad I didn't read any of that tripe above. What a filibuster.
> Maybe his copy/paste key is stuck.

HOWEDY probe,

probe wrote:
> Jerry

You mean The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >

> you old fart.

Your use of distraction fails on accHOWENT of you didn't
INSTANTLY PRAISE the sound, probe. THE QUESTION
is: Re: Doin The Math 1+1+1= ?

You got a ANSWER, probe?

> How the hell have you been?

These are FAMILY news groups, probe. Seems you're
still traumatized by that alien abduction thing, eh
probe? Did they probe you three ways, probe?

> It has been years since I checked out Usenet

Been in therapy THAT long, eh probe? You'll get over it.

> and you're still here.

INDEEDY. Still makin pals an heelpin folks into treatment facilities.

> And, I suspect, no one is paying any attention to you.

Perhaps they're all busy with namin the new puppy
an guessin mixed breeds an talkin abHOWET snow
snot and commercial dog food.

> LOL

Funny, hunh? Last time we played grabass the poster MURDERED
his DEAD PUPPY DOG on his veterinary behaviorists advice <{) ; ~ ) >

REMEMBER?

> You still touting that magic box from a few years ago?

Yeah, but we was talkin abHOWET jerking choking bribing crating
mutilating and shocking dogs to train them. And we was talkin
abHOWET HOWE COME Search And Rescue dogs DON'T FIND
their victims even on EZ searches for any puppy dog to make.

> The one that, if I recall, could make any dog do anything
> or do nothing?

INDEEDY <{): ~ ) >

> Cats too, I think.

AS STATED:

Hi Jerry, (update 10/31/00)

Teddy, my friend, with the very alpha male Siamese cat
reports all is well. She has been running DDR for well
over a week now and JR has not beaten up on any of the
other cats. Gillie the smallest female cat was living
in the bathroom and JR was attacking her every day.

Teddy forgot to close the bathroom door the second day
she had the DDR and came home to good news "no hair
all over the room." Now she is leaving the bathroom
door open all the time and JR has not attacked Gillie.

Gillie used to be able to sleep with Teddy on the bed but
JR got soooo....bad he would almost maul her if she came
into the bedroom. Teddy told me that yesterday Gillie came
into the bedroom and JR just looked at her and ignored her.

Teddy is so grateful as she was considering putting JR
outside or having him euthanized. Will update you in
another week or so.

Thanks, Elaine

===========

That's correct, probe. Doggy Do Right (And Kitty Will And A Rooster
Did And A Cockatoo And A Horse And A Cow Or Two Did Too) CURES
ALL temperament and behavior problems AUTOMAGICKALLY using THE
SAME SAME pleasant gentle scientific and psychological CONDITIONING
techniques as taught in your own FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual <{); ~ ) >


<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>


Elaine McClung, President of Pet Rescue,
Animal Commisioner, Brevard County, FL
writes: Sep 9,2000

"I ordered from Jerry a long time ago.. He was helpful and
the order was filled promptly. Yes, Doggie Do Right does
indeed exist.

I "had" a very aggressive female Pit.. She was showing
aggression not only towards Dok, Rhodesian Ridgeback,
but our cats and even us.

She now plays with Dok, even to the point of allowing him
to take a toy or bone from her. She no longer shows any
aggression towards us. She is showing some aggression
towards the cats but that is down to a warning growl.

It is not just my opinion that all this aggression existed
before Doggie Do Right as we were advised by three vets
to euthanize her.

I do very much believe that DDR will help JR as I know it
has helped my dogs and cats. I do think your product is a
valuable tool in helping with aggression and other behavior
problems.

I am in Feral CatNetwork (we spay and neuter approximately
100 feral cats a month), I am also a member of a local AKC
dog obedience club, member of a local AKC agility club,
president of Pet Rescue, board member of the Alliance for
Care and Welfare of Animals (on the board are: county
commissioner, vet. rep., rep. from AKC dog club, CFA cat
club, assistant County manager, head of animal control,
director of two different shelters, etc.).

Thanks, Elaine


Hi Jerry,

I wrote to you a week or so ago about the unit. I
have since borrowed one from Elaine Mc Clung. She
speaks very highly of it.

So, I brought it home and plugged it in. Of course,
I wanted it to come on, all the barking stop, and
have every one immediately fall to the floor in little
comas for a few hours. Well, after I got all 27 of
them to be quiet, still no comas. But, it had only
been 36 seconds at that point.

So, I gave it a little longer. Still no comas.
Was this really going to work? I mean, I do
have an unusual situation.

So, by bedtime, a few hours later. I started to
notice just how many were asleep already - with
their feet in the air!

I started to have hope. During the night, all was
calm. In the morning when I got up, only a few
of them WALKED quietly to the door to go out. Not
the usual evacuation.

I had the unit from Sunday afternoon until Tuesday
Morning. I was certainly pleased with the night
effect. I wasn't so sure about the amount of the
day time effect. Until I took it back. Within half
an hour, the monsters had resurfaced. I wondered
if I could break into Elaine's house and if she
would notice :)

I know another person who does dog rescue. She rescues
Beagles. She has 23 in an 1100 square foot house. God
bless her. She is interested to see if it will workfor
her. I also spoke to someone else who does cat rescue,
and she is interested. The cat rescue people have monthly
meetings. Maybe Elaine could give a word or two about it.

So, if there are any words of advice you can send my way
about the best way to use it in my case, I would appreciate
it. I of course wanted to keep it on the highest setting,
but don't know if that is advised, even with my situation
of so many new ones coming and (too few) going.

Also, how I and others can go about getting one, etc.
I think the vets should have the info in their offices.
It must help dogs with separation anxiety. My vet
practices homeopathic as well as traditional medicine,
so I would think it would be right up her alley.

Thank you.
Desiree M Webber
A New Leash On Life

From: llindaleedan...@msn.com (Linda)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 14:00:20 -0700
Subject: My dog Sunshine and Wits End

I have not posted for a while since I got back from Florida.
Just want you all to know how well my Sunshine has done! He
is happy and so well behaved that he is such a joy to be with
now.

I am going to work with a couple of dogs in the neighborhood
who are young and know zero commands. Both play with Sunshine
but the owners can not get them to come back to go home.

Sunshine and I owe everything to Jerry and the Wits End method
for our success. I have had dogs for thirty years but never one
like Sunshine. He was fear aggressive and lunged and tried to
attack any one or dog that came into view.

Using the DoggyDoRight and the Wits End approach he walks off
leash, comes anytime I call him, and is starting agility practice
with other dogs right next to him.

I have learned so much from Sunshine and Jerry that now I want
to share Wits End training methods with other people and their
dogs. Sharing our success hopely can help others realize that
you don't have to give up on a problem dog! Just in case you
all think I am not for real or that Jerry is posting this, anyone
is welcome to come visit us and see my Sunshine.


From: "Regina Guerrero" <>
To: <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 11:42 AM
Subject: Thank You!

I just wanted to take a bit of time to tell you how much I
appreciate your product and your training methods as well.

When my little Chihuahua first arrived I was overwhelmed
with her anxiety and her ability to just Bark endlessly.

I received your product and at first I thought I was using it
wrong, because my puppy just seemed to ignore it.

But after a week or two, she began to calm down considerably
as well as act more friendly towards people on the street.

I can't believe the difference I see in my little puppy.
Your product is a life saver! Thanks again for everything.

Sincerely,
Regina Guerrero

==================

Nevyn" <ali...@wasp.net.au> wrote in message
news:fde575d9.0209090337.34fb7ee2@posting.google.com...

Hi There Jerry

Its Nevyn. Sorry Ive not been posting, but I've been working
weekend work at the tracks with the greyhounds (thanks to
you!).

Well my dogs are the envy of all on my street. I can have them
out in the yard with me, take them walking without a leash,
they will do any command with no hesitation. And they don't
bark anymore! Thanks to your machine!

Oh yeah, I loaned your machine to several friends and family

-- Here are some reports:

"I would say my dogs are well trained, but they suffer severe
anxiety when no body is home. This machine quietened them
almost instantly - still they barked, in the beginning, but
just one or two barks. Then slowly they just stopped...
beginning to bark, then instantly stopping.

It took only 2 weeks, and we did nothing.

Truly amazing;

I have recommomeded it to my family, and perhaps they will buy
one. Its a shame you don't sell them publicly". -- Kylie, 30,
on dogs Lili (11 yr mutt bitch) and Sheeba (4 yr Rotty X)

"My two dogs barked insanely when someone would go
past. With this little machine they quietened right down,
and even became partly obedient, and we did nothing!

Great stuff.

We ran it only on the lowest setting, too!" - Ed, 65, on his
two male Dobermans, 5 yrs old.

Well I have some more, and am collecting more, but I only have
one machine so its a slow process. Once again I say thankyou
Jerry! My family was on the verge of giving them up! :(

But no longer :)

=====================

A non dog owner writes:
Dear Jerry-

I just wanted to let you know how wonderful your Doggy Do
Right product is. I was skeptical at first, but have been
tremendously pleased.

As you know, we had a neighbor's dog that was extremely
bothersome, at times barking loudly for 3 hours straight.
Within a few days, the barking decreased, and now it is
just the occasional bark. this dog lives approximately
500 feet away, and even at that distance, the machine has
done wonders.

You were always available and patient to answer my
questions, and now I can be in my own home without going
nuts from the barking. As an added pleasure, all the
other minor barking nuisances in the neighborhood have
stopped as well.

Quiet is wonderful! Thank you.

Pam Graves

===========================

> You must be a zillionaire by now.

INDEED, you'd THINK SO:

"misty" <Momi...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6786-3C0E896C-19@storefull-231.iap.bryant.webtv.net...

Thanks Tricia9999, that was an interesting read! Course my little
gray box seems to be working... Buddy stopped biting the baby! No
negative side-effects seen occurring...not to the bird, the other
bird or Zelda. ~misty

===========

"misty" <Momi...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:21047-3CAD0E8A-173@storefull-2291.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Jerry sent me the DDR when I mentioned my cockatoo was stressed
out by my then just learning to walk baby.

Buddy was screaming day and night..lunging at Joey whenever he
crawled up to Buddy's cage and nipping the baby ( if Buddy wanted
to his beak is powerful enough to sever an adult's finger in one
snap!)

At first we noticed nothing... after a few days ..nothing..nothing
except quiet :-)

That's not to say Buddy never screams.. heh.. he'a a 'Too.. but
the late night scream-a-thons ended.

He also tolerates Joey playing in his water dish <sigh> just
what I want...2 splashers! Buddy loves to bathe in his water
until there's more water on the floor and walls than in his
dish :-)

Twice now Buddy has had marathon scream-a-thons... for a few
days each time. It takes that long for me to realize the DDR
is unplugged :-O Once cos DH did some maintenance and forgot
to plug it back in (of course he remembered to plug the washing
machine back in ;-P)

The second time I had unplugged it while sweeping...and
forgot to plug it back in...

We sure enjoy him being such a good bird! He's been so loving to
everyone... my older 2 boys love being able to give him scritches
again.

~misty

(No, Jerry, you can't have the DDR back just yet! :-)

===================

"misty" <Momi...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:1199-3BD34D6A-229@storefull-235.iap.bryant.webtv.net...

Jerry has taken the time to help me out off the NG. I have a very
loud cockatoo who has been having problems adjusting to my 8
month old son.

Joey is learning to walk. He likes to use Buddy's cage as a hold on
for dear life object.

Buddy wasn't exposed to toddlers prior to Joey.. my older two boys
went through this stage in a different house where Buddy had his own
room and the boys had only visits, not daily contact 24/7.

Buddy has always been spooked by "tiny" humans. Joey has been driving
him nuts! He showed his disapproval by non-stop screaming. A
cockatoo scream can be heard a block away with all the widows
shut <g> being in the house it makes your ears pop and your nerves
crawl.

Jerry sent me Free his DDR. He sent instructions on how to use it.
He answered my questions quite politely.
I have been using the DDR in my kitchen ( where Buddy is located~
teensy 4 room house) for 3 weeks.

At first I noticed no difference in Buddy's behavior. Then I realized
after a week that he no longer screamed for hours on end. This isn't
to say he stopped completely <bg> he still demands his share of all
meals. But he doesn't start screaming at 10 pm when he wants
_everyone_ to go to bed.

Last week he had a day where he screamed all day. My nerves were
frazzled. I went to turn the DDR up a notch per Jerry's instructions.

I discovered the DDR was shut off! I turned it back on and left it on
the lowest setting. Buddy calmed back down and quit screaming.
In the time that I've had the DDR on I've had a lot of c*ts come to my
house. One I adopted and he's quite the sweetie. He's a yellow tiger
named Gatomon ( means c*t monster) who is very friendly with my kids
and Zelda.

I may not like how Jerry treats other posters but I do like the
methods he shares. Being on a limited budget I like things that
are free. I also like the fact that I can e-mail him and get advice
whenever I need it.

Even my DH who is a technical minded kind of guy thinks the DDR is
working. ( He went to Devry and has a degree in electronics, knows
alot about radios and anything mechanical... he's a jack of all trades
around the house <g>). He does NDT for a living.

We don't expect to need the DDR forever.. As soon as Joey is walking,
Buddy will realize that he's not a strange animal.. some kind of
furless dog or c*t <bg>.

So, yes, there are some of us out here who do appreciate Jerry's
methods if not his condemnation of other "regulars". Honey, flies
that sort of thing....
~misty


> LMAO.

That's curiHOWES, AIN'T IT???

HOWEver, NON VIOLENT TRAINING METHODS AIN'T APPRECIATED by
lying dog abusing punk thug coward active acute chronic long
term incurable mental cases like YOU and your punk thug coward
mental case pals who DON'T LIKE NOT HURTIN innocent defenseless
dumb critters TO TRAIN THEM:

From: "whitershadeofpale" <bigbadba...@adelphia.net>
Date: 9 Dec 2005 19:02:29 -0800

Subject: Re: Husband's cat hates me - follow up

Lumpy wrote:
> God, Diane. I have new respect for you. You really must love that cat.
> Lucky Hodge, lucky you to have the capacity for that kind of love.

It is very interesting, how people handle things.

One sees it this way, one sees it another.

In cases that are extreme, we have to be extreme (im not saying
anything new)

I can't help but feel that a majority of cat slaves are scared of
losing the cats affection by cracking down on them..nonsense, break bad

on em. This is not about physical domination but a display of will.

-----------

That's YOU, probe.

> Idiot.

Yeah. Here's HOWE your advice works:

From: Momi...@webtv.net (misty)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:29:09 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Jerry, why non-physical praise?

Beth wrote:
> So, jerry's techniques didnt' work for Peach?

Never had a chance to try them on her... I was still
using the e-fence and chains to keep her in the yard.

The suggestions I received here to keep Peach home were:
build a fence... wasn't going to happen.. we plan on putting
a modular home here within the next few years... put more
fence at the top of the pen I used so both dogs could play
bitey face w/o tangling, and similar suggestions.

Jerry was the only one to mention border training... but he
was kook supreme ;-P So I ignored him... no killfiles with
webtv.. at that time Jerry had his own troll, somewhat like
Candace, so the group was not very conducive to learning anything.

At one point I even b*tched about Jerry.

By the time I tried out Jerry's manual Peach had already ran away.

Not very good at the google groups search but you'll find my
first post at "runaway dog message 30" within that thread is
mention of the dogs taking off and being gone for 2 days. I
stopped posting for a bit... my middle boy was devastated that
his dog was gone... Zelda came home but not her mom.

The next few posts from me were ones about/to Jerry.

Then Jerry made the WETM accessible for webbes, I put it
in my e-mail (no storage otherwise on webby unless you put
stuff on a webpage) and read it, read it and read it.

Once I understood what the concept was, I implemented it
on Zelda. It worked and I now have a great housedog!

I only regret that my own distrust of Jerry caused me to lose
another wonderful dog. Peach was an absolute gem with little
kids. I and my boys still miss her. Sometimes I still look
to see if she came home when we get back from trips. Maybe
Peach would still have ran away... I don't know and never will....

~misty

From: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:16:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry, why non-physical praise?

Peach would be there sittin pretty had our pals not given you a bum
steer cause they're EMBARRASSED and AFRAID of losing their careers
and reputations.... Jerry.

Stick around, we're just startin to have FUN learning and
sharing...J;~)

"misty" <Momi...@webtv.net wrote in message news
16990-3CAB1F8...@storefull-2293.public.lawson.webtv.net...

I don't now whether Peach is dead or alive. I do know she's
not here with us. I really can't blame anyone here for her
loss.

I'm the one who ignored your advice. I did it because of how
you write/wrote. I was unwilling to accept the idea that my
using a shock collar could have any bearing on Peach not
wanting to stay home.

Up until I started using it my main concern had been keeping
my dogs in their own yard.

Once I started using the e-fence... well, then my concern
became how to keep them from running off for days on end.

I lost valuable training time becoming embroiled in the
anti-shock debate and the "Jerry sux" tirades.

I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in the world now <g>
A Wits End Trained dog, one who is completely housetrained,
doesn't chew up stuff, stays in the yard, and doesn't bark all
the time.

IOW a great companion and friend.

Thanks Jerry!

=====================

misty" <Momi...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6946-3B6337A1-329@storefull-233.iap.bryant.webtv.net...

We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring. Two
dogs, two collars We now have one dog and no collars.

Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want to come
back in the yard and would run for days.

The last time, Peach didn't come back home.

I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how to train
my dog. She is now border trained. A few minutes each day
reinforces her desire to stay in the yard.

She no longer runs out into the road, I can stop her from
chasing cats and she no longer cringes when we walk around
the yard.

I can not say loud or long enough how much I hate the
e-fence and its collars. If you can't get a regular fence
then you need to train your dog.

I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep my dog in
our yard again.

The price was too high:-( ~misty

--------------------------------

"misty" <Momi...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:12208-3BB67479-427@storefull-234.iap.bryant.webtv.net...

Hi Cathy! Yes I used The Wits End Method to train my girl, Zelda.
You can check the archives and see I'm a real person.. I post in
misc.kids.breastfeeding, alt.cats rec.pets.cats.annecdotes( not
lately, my kitty died) rec.pets.dogs.behavior rec.pets.birds and
a ton of webtv firewalled ngs.

Zelda and her mom, Peach (RB) both loved to run the neighborhood
with my neighbors 2 male dogs. An e-fence couldn't keep them home,
chains pulled up and Peach could jump/climb a 5 ft. fence.

I wrote in here for advice and felt like Jerry had jumped down my
throat. Upon re-reading his post to me..well..it hit home hard
that I was being abusive to my dog.

The thought of shocking my dog ever again makes me want to puke.

Like I've said before... I might not like the way Jerry treats
some of the other posters but he gave me ( for _free_) a way to
teach myself and my dog.

I can let Zelda outside and not worry that a potty break will mean
she'll be gone for 2 days or, worse yet, not ever come home...like
her mom.

Zelda stopped chewing everything in sight once I started applying
Jerry's methods. One time of "bad slipper!" and she never chewed
another one up :-D

I don't post here a lot because I don't ave any problems needing
solved. I do join in occasionally or post informative lnks. I just
feel that my limited experience precludes me from jumping in every
thread <shrug> but I do read all of them.

If you want my phone number, e-mail me. We would have to set up a
time because I'm on the webbie a lot and we only have 1 phone line.

~misty

=============

b*e@hotmail.com
Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 17:01:53 GMT

Subject: Re: How do I change my dog's learned obnoxious barking
behavior?

On Thu, 20 Dec 2001 08:26:18 -0500, "Jerry Howe"
<*.@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> You got questions matt. The OP didn't want questions.
> The OP HAS questions, matt. You got any answers, matt?

Who died and made you THE authority on usenet etiquette?


================

Pupular opinion and CASE HISTORY DATA, probe.

Here's you, probe:

From: Duane Smith <billyspra...@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 02:44:37 GMT

Subject: Re: Saw the Vet here is my decision
Re: My Dog bit me today, Should I be concerned

On Sun, 10 Feb 2002 11:14:56 -0000, "Patch"
<d.guipago-gle...@LOLntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> You think its amusing to use this pups life for a
> pathetic and childish jibe

Not especially. But it sure strikes me as amusing any
time I get an opportunity to use Jerry for one.

Now, get a life.

===========

Hi Jerry,

I received email from Mark Shaw on 10/6 which I just read today.
Sorry I didn't have time to get to it sooner. We have had a lot
going on in our area concerning animals. We formed a new Task
Force to address spay/neuter, pet overpopulation and animal
abuse. I needed to do a lot of research before the first meeting and
time was just not available for anything else.

Anyway the letter went on to say that we are in collusion, I tried
to defraud him, and have sent none of the materials that he has
asked for although he has yet to furnish the P.O. Box number that
he wanted them sent to in the first place. He goes on to state that
I am no longer eligible for the "fictions reward." All of this is in
answer to postings that prove I was "sharing" his email with you
which in his opinion was a breach of good manners. His email only
had terms and conditions of the reward which I would consider
"public information."

Be that as it may, I would like to state that you had my permission
to post any email I have sent you regarding DDR including this
email.

I'm very sorry that you have to put up with this type of situation
from someone that obviously never intended to make good on his
reward offer in the first place.

I had a call from a friend of mine with a very aggressive cat. I
have loaned her my DDR for a few weeks to see if it will calm JR
down. I will let you know the results. She goes to the same holistic
vet that I go to and he is also interested.

In case Mark does post to the list again I would like to say that I
do very much believe that DDR will help JR as I know it has helped
my dogs and cats. I have entirely too much to do, to worry about his
opinions or reward.

The only reason I was willing to apply for the reward was on your
behalf as I do think your product is a valuable tool in helping with
aggression and other behavior problems.

I am in Feral Cat Network (we spay and neuter approximately 100
feral cats a month), I am also a member of a local AKC dog
obedience club, member of a local AKC agility club, president of
Pet Rescue, board member of the Alliance for Care and Welfare of
Animals (on the board are: county commissioner, vet. rep., rep. from
AKC dog club, CFA cat club, assistant County manager, head of
animal control, director of two different shelters, etc.).

I listed these not to be on an ego trip but to let Mark know that I
am involved with animals and have very little time to play games
with him also I would not recommend your product if I did not
believe in it.

Please feel free to post this email as it has no copyright on it as
did Mark Shaw's last email to me.

Take care Jerry and don't let the Mark's of the world get you down.

Elaine

Thank you, Elaine. I have been trying to educate the mark's of this
world, with some occasional successes. I guess that's variable
reinforcement?

Yours, Jerry.

===============

From: Robin Barr <robinba...@cox.net>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 12:50:58 -0800

Subject: Re: HELP needed ASAP

In article <O31ud.13611$r72.108...@weber.videotron.net>,

regimbalm <regimb...@videotron.ca> wrote:
> MauiJNP wrote:
>
> > my dog tries to jump up on the table. he did it today when
> > I wasn't there and he ate my nephew's food. My sister was
> > home, I wasn't. My mom said if he does it again, he will
> > have to find a new house. I believe her.
>
> > She will kick him (rather us as I will never get rid of him) out.

> > what should I do?

> > she I squirt him with water when he tries to jump on the chairs?
> > I don't want to have to smack him bottom or nose or something like
> > that.
>
> > Should I feed him from the table so he is not so desparate to get
> > up there? or will that make it worse? right now, he NEVER gets
> > anything from the table. thanks for any help.

> why don't you tie him outside during the meals and if he try to go on
> the table do the same go tie him and verbally reprehend him . He needs
> to learn it's not ok to jump on table.

> I would also suggest you go a do basic obedience training you
> need to learn how to control your do,, good luck

I'm only jumping in on this thread now, so don't know if the Puppy
Wizard responded to the original poster with a link to his Wit's End
Dog Training Manual, which he offers at no cost. Although you are
correct to say the dog needs to learn to not jump on the table, and
your suggestion would certainly contain the dog, I don't think it
would TEACH the dog very effectively or quickly.

The Puppy Wizard (Jerry) offers a very quick, kind and gentle way
to teach a dog anything, even eliminating separation anxiety and
allergies.

I hope the original poster sees this, and if you own a dog, perhaps
you might be interested in taking a look also. You'll find it's so
much quicker (and kinder, and gentler) than any other method.

The proof is in the pudding, right? Just give it a try. You've
heard the old saying, you get more with honey than vinegar. If
you do try this method and find it effective, please pass it on
to other pet owners. You'll be doing a good deed. I'm planning
to email it to my friends, relatives, and business associates who
are pet owners as a Christmas or Chanukah gift.

And more, if you have any questions about the training method, or run
into difficulties, unlike the tone of many of the Puppy Wizard's posts
(aka the Grim Reaper), you'll find him extremely helpful, always
available, patient (yes, I said patient:) and kind (yes, I said kind:).



================

From: Robin <robin4...@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 22:49:15 -0700
Subject: Re: Paging Puppy Wizard

In article <pan.2005.06.16.03.47.42.331...@skepticism.us>,
"Kurtis D. Rader" <kra...@skepticism.us> wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:50:08 -0700, Robin wrote:
> > In article <1118672970.419103.259...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> > bringmewa...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> you must have missed his posts where he shows
> >> he's psycho and not worth 10 seconds worth of time
>
> > I disagree. If you can look past the way he communicates,
>
> How he communicates is precisely the point. The reason
> rational people no longer listen to the "puppy wizard"
> has nothing to do with grammar

Kurtis,

I believe myself to be rational (I'm not saying this
defensively), and the reactions from the people in my
world (friends, family, tradespeople, neighbors,
acquaintences, business people, my healthcare givers,
and it goes on and on) seem to reflect that I probably
am rational.

Kurtis, the reason I look beyond the exterior, is
because sometimes, not always, there is something
of value. I've found this to be true many times in
my life.

If you've been following my posts, I have a difficult
situation with my little dog, and I've followed all the
mainstream thinking and techniques for separation anxiety,
to no avail.

One of the reasons I decided to take Jerry's manual more
seriously was the feedback from those who had who had
achieved positive results. And I'm glad I did (please
see my post to Jerry about tonight's session using Jerry's
SA technique).

> or spelling. It is about his surety that he has the
> only valid viewpoint and all others are wrong.

Kurtis, I say this gentle respect (tone can be misinterpreted
with this form of communication) - read again what you said
above. You are doing what you accuse Jerry of, the surety
that you have the only valid viewpoint and all others (who
support Jerry) are wrong. (i.e. they're not rational).

> It is about his atrocious manners. It is about his
> presumption to know enough about an individual to
> judge them an abuser of animals from a single usenet
> message.

I can't argue with you. But this doesn't have the
same emotional charge for me as it does for you.

> > Please know he has supporters, some of whom doctorate
> > level professionals, and this is for a reason.
>
> I know plenty of "smart" people who believe in astrology
> and homeopathy. Just because someone is knowledgeable about
> one topic does not preclude them being idiots in other areas.

Kurtis, please listen to yourself; your judgement about
people who believe in astrology and homeopathy (idiots?),
you are so unwielding and harsh ("the surety that you have
the only valid viewpoint and all others are wrong.")

> > Personally, I like Jerry. He's a colorful character,
> > to say the least,
>
> I like colorful people as well. The world would be
> extremely boring and limited if everyone were like
> me. But just because someone has a different worldview,
> style of dress, or speaking style doesn't mean I should
> treat them as an authority on an arbitrary subject.

No need to treat or think of him as an authority!

(Ooops! <{); ~ ) > )

> I've read way too many posts by PW and visited his web site.
> While there are nuggets of useful information in what he says
> I can get the same advice from other sources

(CITES PLEASE??? <{); ~ ) > )

> without the abuse.

(Seems kurtis means EMBARRASSMENT <{); ~ ) > )

Now Kurtis, you know the same advice is not available
elsewhere. You're speaking an untruth to give weight
to your arguement.

I'm going to receive all kind of flack for this statement -
there's something about Jerry that has completely pushed your
buttons, and it has nothing to do with Jerry.

(Hint: look to one or both of your parents for the
source of this anger, that's who you're angry at)
I KNOW I'm going to regret having said that, but
this is kind of mood I'm in right now.

Anyway, you seem like a nice guy. Best regards,
Robin

From: Robin <robin4...@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 12:50:08 -0700
Subject: Re: Paging Puppy Wizard

In article <1118672970.419103.259...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,

b*.@gmail.com wrote:
> you must have missed his posts where he shows he's
> psycho and not worth 10 seconds worth of time

I disagree. If you can look past the way he communicates,
his information is worth exploring, and his message is about
absolute love, trust, respect and 'do no harm'.

If he could only communicate that way to the humans
who provoke him, which are many :), he would be able
to get thru to many more people without being written
off as a nut.

Please know he has supporters, some of whom doctorate
level professionals, and this is for a reason. Personally,
I like Jerry. He's a colorful character, to say the least,
and I enjoy learning from him. And, if you meet him halfway,
he'll give back to you tenfold.

Regards,
Robin

=============

Lucy wrote:
> > It's the same puppy that is now my perfect dog [...]

"It is by muteness that a dog becomes
so utterly beyond value."

Like a confessor Priest?

"With him, words play no torturing tricks..., "
--John Galsworthy.

Don't bet your dog won't tell on you...
Their behaviors reflect
HOWER words, actions and training quirks.
Jerry HOWE, The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >

> In other words, your puppy grew up.

Within a few minutes?

Outstanding growing up process this must have been, to occur
after repeating just a few times the dreaded praise for bad
behavior!

Lucy


"As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there is
no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving care."
George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine.

You GET The Critter You TRAINED

A DOG Is A Dog;
As A KAT Is A KAT;
As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES.

ALL Behavior Problems Are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING

ALL Critters Only Respond In
PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.

Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture."
We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions
And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.

Punishment Deranges Behavior.
"NO!" Does NOT Have Any Behavioral Function
EXCEPT
To DERANGE Behaviors.

Here's professor dermer pryor:

From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST

And how do we know this aspect of his
advice is right?

Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.

(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
ill-mannered, or just plain ill.­),

--Marshall

Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of
Wisconsin-Milwaukee/ Milwaukee, WI 53201/ der...@uwm.edu
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
"Life is just too serious to be taken entirely seriousyl!"

From: der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer) -
Date: 1998/08/28
Subject: Re: Puppy growls and snaps

In article <6s6ea0$8c...@uwm.edu> der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu
(Marshall Dermer) writes:
> In article <35E60819.65178...@pilot.msu.edu>
> tami sutherland<suthe...@pilot.msu.edu> writes:
>
>> However, there have been incidences where she has
>> growled and snapped at us...for instance, when we
>> were trying to dry her off after bathtime.
>
> When your three-month old pooch growls or snaps, IMMEDIATELY
> pick her up ONLY by the skin at the back of her neck, for 5
> sec, and loudly say, "NO!" Alternatively, say "NO!" and hold
> her mouth shut for say 15 sec.
>
> If she so snaps that you can't do the above then you
> will have to find another way to administer a prompt
> correction, for example, throwing a can filled with
> pennies, or a tug on the collar.

--Marshall

"Oops! I would start by only holing her mouth
shut for say 5 sec.

At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.

BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!

That's INSANE. Ain't it.

Here's professor dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:

"We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People Should
Come To Their Senses And Support Your Valuable Work.
God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall Dermer,
Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI.

From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<*.@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM

Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,

I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.

You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent­,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts ­to
alert the world to animal abuse.

We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.

Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?

In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.

--Marshall Dermer

Subject: < BEFORE -> "Jerry, You filthy, Unctuous,
No Good Charlatan,"

< AFTER -> "Thank You Jerry For Putting Up With
A Constant Barrage Of Really Infantile
Crap At The Hands Of Supposedly Adult
Dog Lovers.

'Naive' Is Believing You Can Terrorize
A Dog Into Good Behavior," Robert Crim.

>Subject: Re: Fritz---a retrospective
>Date: 02/05/1999
>Author: Robert Crim <fritzg...@earthlink.net>
> You filthy, unctuous, no good charlatan. If you had
> any idea of what dogs and dog people were about
> you would realize the depths of the absolute loathing
> and contempt I hold for you right now. Were it not
> for the blessed distance and anonymity that the internet
> gives us from the scummy likes of you, I would probably
> be in a jail cell right now for turning you into the pile
> of shit you really are

Hey, Howe, you really are a wacko, eh?

Crim wrote this about *YOU,* you insipid piece of cow dung!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman

=====================

> On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:24:15 -0700, dogsnus

<"Terri"@cyberhighway> Wrote:>

> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> come forward and actually believe in his training manual.
>

Robert Crim writes:

I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope,
understood enough of the manual and it's counterparts by
John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
and use it.

This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.

The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.

To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.

Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use their real
names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.

"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.

Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.

> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
> actually admit to buying and having success with his
> little black box.

I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.

> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
> to him! LOL!

I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.

>Terri

Yes it was, and that is sad.

Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)

===========

Crim wrote THAT about *YOU,* tommy,
"you insipid piece of cow dung!"

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@mail.com>
Subject: Alleged Professors of Animal Behavior
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:50:51 -0400

Dear Jerry, I paged through some of the "dog business"
and was astonished at the low quality of opinions arising
from professors of behavior analysis.

I had the very great privilege of meeting Sam Corson
(Pavlov's last Ph.D. student) and his dogs at Ohio
University. I even got to spend a night at Sam's house.

There is no question but that you are a spiritual brother
to Corson and to Pavlov, both of whom knew that the dog's
great capacity for love was the key to shaping doggie behavior.

Paradoxical reward and paradoxical fixing of attention are
both well documented Pavlovian techniques. Even so humorless
a chap as B.F. Skinner taught students like the Breland's whose
"The Misbehavior of Organisms" demonstrate the utility of your
methods and their deep roots in scientific (as opposed to
commercial) psychology.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
you may find my resume in Who's Who in
Science and Technology

<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>

"The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change,
Or They'd Not Be Scientific And Would Not Obtain
Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective Results
For All Handler's
And All Dogs,
NEARLY INSTANTLY,
As Taught In Your FREE Copy Of The Puppy Wizard's FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual,"
The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >


B*@gmail.com
2006-01-15 09:12:31 EST
yeah it's 3 baby ! I'm a genius !

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