Dog Discussion: Newbie To Group And How To Train To Fetch?

Newbie To Group And How To Train To Fetch?
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Jack Slater
2003-10-02 20:09:15 EST
I'm newbie to the group an am wondering if I can get some direction on
training 3 year old maltese to fetch?



The Puppy Wizard
2003-10-03 05:17:52 EST

"Jack Slater" <jdslater@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:L63fb.24039$%h1.13301@sccrnsc02...
> I'm newbie to the group an am wondering if I can get some
direction on
> training 3 year old maltese to fetch?
>
>

THE FORCE FETCH

Alright! Now you are (finally) ready to force fetch your dog. I
repeat, you want to have an experienced person help you out,
someone who has already force fetched her own dogs whether for
obedience or field. This step in the training entails what is
termed
avoidance behavior. In a nutshell, the dog is taught how to "turn
off" a negative stimulus. He is carefully taught that he has
complete
control over it. This is a very effective way of teaching, but
does
require a more astute sense of timing than some other training
methods and is very difficult for some people to do, for a variety
of reasons. However, if the dog properly knows HOLD at this point,
it's easily done with a minimum of fuss.

Return to your quiet starting place, with the dog on a collar and
leash in front of you, sitting quietly. Instead of opening his
mouth
as you have been for the HOLD, put your hand through the dog's
collar (to hold him steady) and with your thumb and forefinger
pinch
the tip of his ears and say TAKE IT (or FETCH, or whatever
you want) Watch his mouth closely -- the moment he opens his
mouth, pop that dumbbell in, let go of his ear but not the collar,
and PRAISE PRAISE PRAISE. Do this three or four times per
session.

When he is opening his mouth in anticipation of the dumbbell, the
next step is to hold the dumbbell just past his lips. This next
step
is for him to move his head forward that inch (or half inch)
necessary to get the dumbbell. At this point, he has a pretty good
notion that getting that darned thing into his mouth is the way to
turn
off the ear pinch. Most dogs will lean forward and get it. That's
his
second milestone! Praise, praise, praise and repeat three or four
times this session. Remember, I said these sessions were no more
than 5 minutes or so each. That's still true.

Gradually extend the distance so he has to reach further to get
it.
Now here is where a few subtleties come into play. It's not enough
for him to merely reach out and grab it. You want him to commit to
getting it. You want him to be intent on getting it. If he sort of
limply reaches over and gets it, that's not what you want. If you
pinch
him but have to drag him toward the dumbbell, that's not what
you want either. We're back to the visualization. What do you want
him to do? You want him to, if necessary, bust through just about
anything to get that dumbbell. So hold on to that collar until you
feel him pulling out of it to get that. That's his committment.
You
want
to say TAKE IT and have him just about explode out to get the
dumbbell. As you get further along in this, you will release him
when he's made a good committment -- this will help shape a speedy
response nicely. I think you can see why it helps to have an
experienced person around when you are doing this! It can
be difficult to keep all these things in mind when you are
actually
sitting there with a dog in your hands.

About the ear pinch: You must keep the pressure up until the
instant
he has the dumbbell securely in his mouth. Many people have
problems getting the pinch right, either they do not pinch enough,
or they have a very stoic dog in which case case a collar may be
needed to help make the pinch more effective. Also some dogs are
screamers, and if they find that they can stop the pinching by
screaming, they've learned the avoidance technique just fine --
but
not with the behavior you had in mind!

Don't let your dog scream. Use your hand to hold his muzzle closed
and tell him to quit moaning. Some dogs will collapse into a
heap. Don't let them do that, that's why your hand is in the
collar.
Hold them up and get them back into a sitting position. What your
dog is doing is trying to find other ways of avoiding the ear
pinch.

You need to be firm and consistent and demonstrate that
getting the dumbbell is the only means of avoidance.

Remember to keep him under control. When he gets that dumbbell
in his mouth, pull him gently around back to you and sit him back
down. You may in fact want to sit him at your side in the heel
position (whether or not he actually knows the heel position),
hold
the dumbbell in front of him, command him to take it and then pull
him back to a front or finish position as you wish. The pattern
will
do
him good later.

The next major milestone is putting the dumbbell on the ground for
him to pick up. For many dogs this can be a big deal and may be
difficult. Set the dumbbell on the ground just in front of them,
with
your hand on the dumbbell. He may not reach for it, he may
refuse --
keep up the ear pressure until he finally picks it up. If he
really
doesn't seem to understand this, then break this down into an
intermediate step where you hold the dumbbell, but about 1/2 way
between the ground and his mouth.

Once he's picked the dumbbell off the ground, that's a major
milestone and you are just about home free.

As before slowly place the dumbbell further away on the ground in
front of him. Make sure he is pulling out of your hold on the
collar
before you let him pick the dumbbell up. If he drops the dumbbell
from this point on, you will get control of him (put him in a sit
with a
firm hold on his collar) and pinch him back to the dumbbell -- he
can pick it up now so there is no need for you to put it in his
mouth
any more. HE is the one responsible for getting it.

When he is reliably picking up the dumbbell a few feet from you,
then you can stop using the pinch at the beginning of the
exercise.

You will instead reserve it for when he drops the dumbbell or
refuses to pick it up, etc. So for example, you might go out,
place
the
dumbbell 6 feet away, put the long lead on him, tell him to take
it. Let's say he hesitates and doesn't go out. Then you pinch,
force
him to commit, send him to the dumbbell. Let's say he goes and
gets
it, but starts playing with it. Pull him in, and if he hasn't
already dropped the dumbbell, take it out of his mouth, put it
back
where it was, and pinch him to it.

There is one last problem you need to watch for. Many dogs,
especially retrievers, will start pouncing on the dumbbell once
they
are able to run out a few steps to it before picking it up. So
transition to this point with a long cotton lead about 20-30 feet
long.
With this you can spin him round the moment he scoops up the
dumbbell, teaching him that he cannot play with it. If your dog
drops
the dumbbell, use the lead to pull him back to you (do not let him
try
to pick it up), and pinch him back to it. the basic rule of thumb
is
that if he drops it, he will be pinched back to it regardless.

Thoughts to Consider

Force fetching is never completely done, per se (as with any
exercise taught to a dog). You may need to do a refresher course
when it's something new to pick up, or if it's something
disgusting
(like a very dead bird) to pick up. He may also start to get lazy,
you need to keep an eye on him. You may also realize you omitted
some step in training him that shows up later so you will have to
go
back and fix it.

But you should also take care to make sure he doesn't forget any
of
these hard-earned lessons! Make him carry things for you. He can
carry his own ball out to the park. He can carry his own utility
articles to the ring. He can help you carry a light bag of
groceries
into the house. He can help you carry firewood. They will just
love
this, and it's a good way to keep the talents honed. Use it!



The Puppy Wizard
2003-10-03 05:19:55 EST

"Jack Slater" <jdslater@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:L63fb.24039$%h1.13301@sccrnsc02...
> I'm newbie to the group an am wondering if I can get some
direction on
> training 3 year old maltese to fetch?
>
>


"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem Quite Harsh And
Cause You To Cringe. This Is A Normal Reaction The First Few
Times It Happens, But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."

And from terri willis:
Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context, because you
are full of bizarro manure."

lyingfrosty dahl's stick fetch:

"By now the dog is lunging for the dummy. Stick fetch accomplishes
two
things: it teaches the dog that distractions are no excuse to
ignore a
"fetch" command and it transfers much of the momentum-producing
power of
the ear pinch to the stick, thus providing a basis for
force-on-back.

Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper wield the
stick, or do it yourself. Don't make the stick any more obvious
than it
has to be. With the dog at heel, toss the dummy about three feet
in
front of the dog. With your hand on the collar and ear, say,
"fetch."
Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick. Repeat
"fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy.

Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog, sometimes not hitting
it.
Again, you want to make the dog think that by going fast it can
avoid
the stick. As it catches on, try using the stick and no ear pinch.
Usually not many sessions are needed (maybe 3-6). When the dog is
digging out to beat the stick and seems totally reliable without
any ear
pinch, you are finished--you have successfully force-fetched your
retriever.

Many trainers follow force-fetching with a "walking fetch" drill
where
several dummies are lying on the ground, ten feet or more apart.
Trainer
approaches dummies with dog at heel and says, "fetch" as dog's
attention
focuses on the first dummy. Any refusals are corrected with the
ear
pinch. After the dog sits to deliver, the trainer can drop the
dummy
behind the dog for a later circuit. When performance is smooth,
the
stick can be added just as in the fetch from a sitting position.
If the
previous steps have been carefully done, the dog will soon be
lunging
eagerly for each dummy as soon as it sees it.

We then work on getting the dog to wait until it is commanded to
"fetch," using repeated "heel" commands and jerks on the lead.
Generally
we don't pursue this to the point where it is absolute--the dog's
getting the idea is enough. Not all youngsters can take heavy
drilling
on contradictory ideas such as "go" and "don't go."

"Happy bumpers" can also be good for the dog's attitude.

The walking fetch drill makes the transition to picking up a dummy
the
dog finds on the ground, not only one which has just been thrown
or
placed by the trainer. Now the dog can be sent to a pile, the
foundation
for forcing on "back" and for blind retrieves. It can be sent,
with
appropriate hand signals, to side and back piles, making an
introduction
to casting. And of course, the dog should deliver perfectly and
you, as
trainer, have the tools to enforce this: command "hold" as the dog
emerges from water and considers putting the bird down to shake,
and
pinch its ear if a dummy or bird is ever dropped. While
force-fetching
is now complete, training has become more varied and interesting
and we
are sure you will want to continue.



The Puppy Wizard
2003-10-03 05:22:03 EST

"Jack Slater" <jdslater@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:L63fb.24039$%h1.13301@sccrnsc02...
> I'm newbie to the group an am wondering if I can get some
direction on
> training 3 year old maltese to fetch?
>
>

Hello cindy,

"Cindy" <tittle@fnord.io.com> wrote in message
news:%%hK6.172$iC1.4036@news6.giganews.com...

> > Do you recall any of your training sessions in which you used
an
> > e collar? Again, I'm not going to use one; I only wanted to
know
> > how such training wasaccomplished in one specific example.
> Lisa, give it up.

Huh?

> No one's going to tell you what you want to know.

Sure, I will.

> It's not the type of training that any ol' person should
undertake.

That's why I came here to identify, expose, and discredit our
"experts" who hurt dogs to train them.

> You've already been given pointers.

Right. Why the run around?

> And you CAN go talk to an experienced trainer

Exactly. That's what this forum is about. We got all kinds of
EXPERTS here, cindy. Talk dog training or screw.

> in person

What are you afraid of, cindy?

> (or attend one of the tritronics seminar) without a dog/collar.

Oh, one by your pal freaky frantik fraud die, for example? Tell me
you and your pals here aren't as BRILLIANT as our shock collar
salesman...

>Besides, didn't you try to claim in another thread that folks
here
> would actually tell anyone who wanted how to use a collar?

Seems to me, folks here are DOUBLE TALKIN US.

> Kinda tough to substantiate that claim, isn't it?

Kinda tough to get a straight answer outta you when our posters
ask
about your FORCED FETCH, remember? You couldn't answer any
questions
about that either... Or was that just because you were being asked
about the forced fetch by an animal abuse investigator? I'll be
happy to find the original thread, if you like.

> --Cindy

So what's the story? HOWE COME our expert trainers here suddnly
can't talk dog traniing? Let's just start right at the beginning,
and we'll go over your methods STEP BY STEP, eh?

Your pal, Jerry "Mr. NICE Guy," Howe. j;~} Who isn't afraid of
discussing the hard questions... because he's been in this
business
for thirty eight years and has heard every excuse in the book for
HURTING dogs to train them...



The Puppy Wizard
2003-10-03 05:28:06 EST

"Jack Slater" <jdslater@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:L63fb.24039$%h1.13301@sccrnsc02...
> I'm newbie to the group an am wondering if I can get some
direction on
> training 3 year old maltese to fetch?
>
>

"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."

"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.

Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies HURT all
their lives like HOWE HOWER dog lovers PREFER to
HURT THEIR DOGS?

Subject: Soft Dogs = An Iron Clad Case Of Dog Abuse -

A Review Of An Article By lying frosty And john (Stick Man) dahl.

Date: 2003-06-19 12:20:53 PST


HOWEDY People,

Without ever having read this article in advance, I've written the
subject header and intend to go through the dahl article to prove
beyond a shadow of a doubt that our expert field dog trainers are
incompetent lying dog abusing Thugs.

> Oak Hill Kennel
> Soft Dogs

So called soft dogs means a dog that'll collapse to the ground or
shake
and quiver for days after being shocked, choked, pinched, and
beaten.
That's what our field dog trainers breed DOWN for, to get a dog
that
won't bite them when they viciously pinch and twist their ears
between
spikes or the buckle of their collars and the brass of a shot
shell.

> by John and Amy Dahl
> First published in The Retriever Journal, December/January
1997-98

amy dahl is a proven liar and dog abuser, who works with her idiot
dh to beat her dogs for her, so she won't break a nail...

> There is not universal agreement as to the meaning of the term
> "soft" in describing a retriever.

Because there's no rhyme or reason to ever hurting a field dog to
make
them interested in working... hunting. That's the most NATURAL
thing in
the world for a Retriever Dog to do.

> Many enthusiasts

dahl means, DOG ABUSERS.

> confuse lack of desire or recalcitrance in training

*(FEAR)

> with softness

You mean the dog's withdrawal to defend itself by cowering
and shaking and pleading not to be HURT someMOORE.

> while others label shyness, spookiness, and other deficiencies
of attitude

HOWER dog abusers blame the dog for being afaid of gettin BEATEN.

> as softness.

What else would we expect our dog abusers to say when they're
jerking
and choking and pinching a dog to motivate them to want to work
with
them as their partners? Oh. That's the problem. Our field dog
training
experts do not train their dogs to be partners, they hurt and
intimidate
and force their dogs to do as they're told, or get HURT.

> We apply the term softness more simply to the inability or
> unwillingness of a retriever to respond well to heavy force.

Hunh?

Oh! You mean PAIN, INTIMIDATION, CHOKING, SHOCKING, and BEATING.

> When dealing with such a dog,

In my nearly forty years of specializing in temperament and
behaivor
problems in mostly giant breed dogs I've never found the need to
beat a
dog with a stick. And it's been over twenty five years since I've
used a
correction... I've learned alot during my career.

> the use of pressure (pain, J.H.) must be restricted to the level
at which a
>desirable response is achieved, without overwhelming the dog.

Well ain't that NICE of you! You don't approve of overly HURTING
your
dogs to motivate them to want to work and do everything you ask.

> Although there seems to be a tendency among some to drop a soft
dog
> like the proverbial hot potato,

Is that on account of there's NO PLEASURE if you can't HURT the
dog?
Or is it because they can't train a dog without HURTING it?

Why must you experts HURT dogs to train them? There isn't anything
you do in field work that I don't need to do for protection work,
just a
little different spin, that's all.

Dog training is dog training and a dog is a dog.

> we find the soft dog,

But not to our experts. Our experts have hard and soft and lots of
other
euphamisms for temperament problems THEY CAUSE by their absurd,
vicious, warped, training methods.

Antiquated doesn't imply ABUSIVE. ABUSE is abusive, anytime.

> on the average, no more difficult to train to top performance
than the
> "hard" dog -- the dog which is not very susceptible to pain.

Notice our experts are moore concerned with pain and HOWE to
administer it than actually motivating the dog to want to work.

That's where I start off teaching my students, HOWE to command
their dog's attention through praise and motivate their dogs to
naturally want to do everything they're asked because that's the
most NATURAL thing for a PACK animal to WANT do, follow the
directions of the pack leaders in a hunt... The very most basic
fundamental rules of dog training are UNKNOWN to our experts.

> Often the soft dog can be taught lessons through light pressure
more
> easily than the hard dog through heavy pressure.

What? What lessons are taught through pain and fear?

Pain and fear inhibit learning and memory recall and inhibit
the dog from TRYING out of fear of being HURT someMOORE.

> Parenthetically, we would deceive ourselves,

You ain't deceiving nobody no moore. I'm blowing the
whistle on you BIG TIME. You're an incompetent abusive
dog molester and a liar to boot.

> and fail to deal with the project of training a dog properly,

PROPERLY? HURTING DOGS IS NOT PROPER.

> if we did not admit that all correction has an element of pain,
> physical or emotional, in it.

Sorry, lyng frosty dahl. Only dog abusing Thugs need to inflict
pain,
fear, and intimidation into a learning situation.

> The key is to understand the

The nature of our dog abusing "trainers." They're mentally
deficient,
and incompetent when it comes to handling and training dogs, or
they wouldn't NEED to HURT them.

> use of pressure

You mean PAIN.

> and to apply it to a degree and with a frequency that
> will get the job done without making the dog go sour.

But it may make some dogs go sour... isn't that correct?

NO.

That's not correct.

There's no correct way to hurt and intimidate a dog to train it.

> Soft dogs are not all soft in the same areas or to the same
degree.

Yes, I expect you'd know all about the different ways dogs
experess pain and fear.

> Some soft dogs lack drive,

Could that be because you're HURTING and INTIMIDATING them,
lying frosty dahl?

> range,

That could be because they know you can't HURT them at a
distance...or in field trials.

> birdiness,

Perhaps the pain has something to do with diminished
desire to even think about a bird???

> or initiative.

HOWE could your hickory stick fail to motivate your dogs???

> These failings are not necessarily related to softness

Right. They're related to incompetent uncaring vicious rotten dog
abusing Thugs hurting dogs because they don't understand HOWE
to train them without inflicting PAIN and INTIMIDATING them.

> and are about equally common in average and hard dogs.

You mean a dog is a dog, dahl?

> Slowness, dislike of the water, and avoidance of difficult cover
may
> all occur in the temperamentally soft dog, but again are not
necessarily
> a result of the softness.

Moore doubletalk.

> Dogs that are extremely susceptible to discomfort in cold water,
may,
> however, be described as having a form of softness that prevents
their
> becoming good cold water dogs, even with extensive training.

I wouldn't know... I'm afraid of cold unless it's food.

> When we think of soft dogs we more often think of those we know
> or have trained who were soft in the sense that it took very
little
> physical force to make them comply.

Oh, now that's a switch (pardon the pun).

> Often these dogs were extremely talented, had great drive and
speed,
> were birdy and intelligent and had endearing personalities.
Several
> made excellent field trial performers.

Rare is it that you have a dog you don't need to hurt a lot?

> Modern electric collars can make training less traumatic for
soft
> dogs such as this golden bitch

Yes, shocking the dog is much nicer than beating and twisting its
ears
and choking IT... wouldn't you agree, DOG LOVERS?

> One of these was FC/AFC Jaffer's Blackie. Blackie was a large
dog
> with great drive, intelligence, and charisma. He was soft. A
lesson
> could be taught to him quickly with little pressure,

You mean without hurting and intimidating him much?

> and he would retain it.

Yes. Research into learning tells us we cannot learn and retain
and
recall information if we are in pain and under duress.

> Shortly after Blackie came in for training, at 2 1/2 years of
age,
> John was running the dog on some lining problems when
> Blackie stopped midway to the dummies

You and john were in front of the dog?

> and plastered his nose to the ground. He was glued to bitch
scent
> from a female who had run the test previously.

Well, that would make a dog trainer angry, wouldn't it?

> John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and gave the dog
two or
> three medium whacks on the rump with a training stick while
holding
> him partially off the ground.

What is this "training stick?" I've never used a stick except to
throw
for the dog to play with. You beat your dogs in training with a
stick.

> John then told Blackie to sit, ran back to the line and cast him
back
> to the dummies.

And the dog came to you and your dh dog abuser?

> Blackie responded beautifully and we can't remember his ever
putting
> his nose down while being run on a test again.

Because you were smart enough to pick IT off the ground and BEAT
IT.

> He was an example of a dog having all the right characteristics
of a
> competitive retriever

You mean Blackie didn't try to defend himself as any respectable
dog
would do because he's been beaten down.

> while soft enough to learn the lessons quickly and with little
> pressure.

Seems to me you'd do well to get the heel outta this business
before
you end up in jail for animal abuse.

> FC Oak Hill Exponent (Pudge) was another example of a soft dog
with
> great drive, speed, and cold water ability. Pudge was so soft
that
> she could and would avoid a simple swat on the rump with a
riding
> crop, even when on a check cord.

Why would you want to beat a dog with a horse whip while
it's tied to a tree? Oh! Of curse! You got to tie the dog or IT
will RUN AWAY from your BEATIN.

> This form of softness, moving quickly to avoid physical
correction,

Amazing! The dog has the audacity to avoid being beaten by you?

> made her difficult in some ways,

Yeah. You had a hard time BEATING her cause she keeps ducking, you
pig.

> but she was so susceptible to what pressure we were able to
apply

You mean you was able to train her even though you kept missing
hitting
her with your horse whip?

> that her learning rate was almost unbelievable.

Oh. Maybe she became so confident she could outmanouver you
swinging
your horse whip that she was able to relax enough to figure out
HOWE
COME you were beating her???

> When she was three years old,

Did she make it to four, or did she throw herself into the ocean
to
avoid being beaten anyMOORE?

> even though she was an excellent marker, she
> couldn't do tests having two bird throwers close together. Faced
> with this situtation, Pudge couldn't decide which one to go to
and
> would pop (stop and look back) out of confusion.

That's because SHE'S AFRAID OF YOU HURTIN HERsomeMOORE.

That's the same problem you guys have with the glove in the
directed
retrieve and the other example you mentioned the other day about
the dog
going to the previous exercise when the field is changed... you
HURT the
dog and that's why they go out of control. Same problem for
barking on
line in susan fraser's example where she and lyingdogDUMMY
concluded
they've got to "steady" the dog moore by BEATING HIM for barking,
the
reason he barks in the first place... kinda like homeopathy or "if
it don't
kill you it'll make you stronger."

> This behavior was making it difficult to teach her the more
> challenging marking tests.

The dog was scared out of her wits, becase you and your dummy
husband BEAT HER.

> Pudge had had two force-on-back programs with a stick

You mean you needed to beat her for two sessions...

> and a long 100-yd cord before this
You let her run full tilt for 100 yards and then jerk her
assoverbucket
to teach her a lesson. That's a good way to cripple or kill a dog.

> and was well forced to go.

You mean, you BEAT HER IN ADVANCE WHILE TIED, as per
your "STICK FETCH" method.

> John's solution to the popping on marks was to put the electric
> collar on her -- with no preliminary conditioning we are ashamed
to
> say, as we would not do this today -

Well let's talk about that, since you refuse to discuss this
aspect in
our snake proofing discussions... From your own words, the dog
must
be properly conditioned to the collar before and after the
training
involving introducing the dog to the shock, so the dog doesn't
become
DEPENDENT on wearing the shock collar to be TRAINED... or COLLAR
WIZE.

IOW, our so called snake proofing lessons are INEFFECTIVE unless
the
dog has been properly conditioned to the shock collar, a
proceedure that
requires at least a week, preferable two weeks and a few days of
wearing
the collar after the training has been effected to OUTWIT the dog
into
responding even in the absence of DURESS, i.e. wearing his shock
collar.

Got it?

Your snake and poison proofing methods are faulty, and you
and I know this, and NOBODY is saying nothing, but KILLFILE JERRY.

> - and send Pudge on her marks.

You leave marks on the dog? Naaah.

> When she popped he would give the back cast with transmitter
> in hand, nick her lightly with the collar,

You mean SHOCK her. Let's discuss corrections.

Every incompetent trainer who uses force will agree that a light
correction is going to nag the dog and NOT be effective, and
may even provoke the dog. So, are you giving an ineffective lite
correction, or are you giving the dog an EFFECTIVE correction?

YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS NO MOORE.

As a koehler trainer, you know as well as I do that koehler would
solidly chastise you for giving lite corrections, as he has
stressed
throughout his definitive treatise on PAIN and INTIMIDATION
methods of ABUSE you call TRAINING.

> and holler "Back!"

As you shock IT.

> This worked so well that after two or three sessions of this
kind
> Pudge stopped popping, drove back to her birds, and made her
> FC within the year.

So, evidentally the lite corrections were EFFECTIVE corrections.
That's
why I've offered one thousand dollars for any trainer to train a
dog
while wearing a dual tuned shock collar themselves... lite
corrections
m* @$$.

You're a liar and dog abuser.

> On the other extreme, the really hard dogs we have trained
require
> much more frequent and heavy application of pressure to get the
job
> done.

You HURT dogs you're too stupid to train.

> Such were Dual Ch/AFC Warpath Macho, who was extremely
> difficult to get to stop on a whistle, and FC Penney's Nifty
> Bouncer, who had convinced himself and almost us that he would
never
> wait until he was sent to take off after a bird. Both of these
dogs,
> although excellent performers, needed frequent and convincing
use of
> physical force to keep them under wraps.

BECAUSE YOU'RE A DOG ABUSER AND DON'T KNOW HOWE
TO MOTIVATE A HUNTIN DOG TO HUNT.

> They, too, were happy, hard workers, but being tough they were
> higher maintenance dogs in training.

"HIGH MAINTENANCE?" You mean they NEEDED A LOT of PAIN.

Yeah. Are there any two letters in the alphabet (FC, JH, CH,
etc.) worth beating your dog over?

Any "trainer" who has to hurt their dog to make him work, should
get the heel outta this business and leave the work to those who
know HOWE to outwit the cunning of a domestic puppy dog
without beating IT.

> What degree of softness, and in combination with what other
traits,
> might we want in an hypothetical "ideal" retriever?

Why don't you learn HOWE to make your dogs enjoy working with you
and
teach them what you want them to do, instead of just beating
choking and
shocking it into them?

> The late Mike Paterno, who trained and handled the famed NAFC/FC
Dee's
> Dandy Dude, once said "The easiest dog to train is a soft fast
dog.

That so?

> The hardest dog to train is a fast hard dog."

I just love it when two dog abusers talk about abusing dogs.
You'll
notice their discussions have no meaning to anyone other than a
dog
abuser.

> There is a good deal of truth in this statement.

Yeah. He's talkin abHOWET the same reasons as you
couldn't lay your horse whip on Pudge. The dog HOWEtwits
you to avoid gettin BEAT.

> The fast soft dog may have plenty of speed, style, and momentum
> to make a top retriever while being responsive enough to be
brought
> under control easily. Conversely, the hard fast dog -- already
tough
> to get under control -- covers so much ground so rapidly that a
single
> cast or whistle refusal often puts him beyond recovery.

IOW he's outta HURTING range.

> In trials this gives an overall appearance of discipline
> failure, and in training makes teaching hazard concepts
difficult as
> he can get out of the area of the hazard so quickly.

That doesn't have to be the case. If you didn't HURT the dog,
he'd WANT to work and listen.

> A soft dog, especially a smart soft dog, can be particularly
> well-suited to a beginning trainer.

For the reasons stated above. LESS NEED TO HURT IT means
the dog earns faster and remembers easier... because of the
ABSENCE OF YOUR TRAINING METHODS...

> A novice training his or her first dog is usually willing to
adapt
> the methods to the dog,

Good point. If you had effective methods, the dog would adapt to
the
method. That's called TRAINING, isn't it, lying frosty dahl.

> and to invest the time and tennis-shoe soles needed to teach
each
> concept with minimal pressure.

You mean they're willing to actually work at training the dog
instead of
just beating choking shocking and pinching and twisting its ears
and
toes and testicles and shooting it with slingshots?

> Such a team are Lane and Huck, who have recently begun training
> with us a couple of times a week. Huck (the dog) is very
intelligent,
> soft, and responsive. Until his move to our area, Lane had no
> guidance on how to train him.

You mean he managed to train his dog without the help of
watching a EXXXPERT beat the dog at the heel of an expert
dog abuser like you?

> He noticed that the books contradict one another

Imagine that? And I've discredited all the books...

> and treated them with (appropriate) skepticism.

Get outta this busines... dog abuser.

> Using his intuition and his knowledge of what he wanted
> the dog to know -- and his voice -- Lane had taught Huck to mark
> multiple falls and to handle extremely well. Our input has been
to
> explain field trials and the types of tests Huck needs to learn
to
> compete. Right now it looks as though Huck will be competitive
in
> the Derby.

Imagine that, he managed to train a dog WITHOUT HURTING IT???

SHAAAZZZAAAM!!!

> Lane's commands are unconventional, but who cares? Huck is a
> wonderful example of what a soft dog can achieve for a dedicated
> trainer who pays attention to the dog's response and employs a
light
> touch.

YET YOU PREFER TO INFLICT PAIN and INTIMIDATION
because you're an incompetent dog abusing Thug.

> By the same token, a soft or sensitive dog will fare less
> well with a trainer who is predisposed to train all individuals
> exactly the same and with plenty of force. And conversely, a
hard
> dog might require more force than many novices are willing to
apply.

I just love to hear a dog abuser discuss abusing dogs...

> Bitches as a general rule tend to be somewhat softer than males,
and
> this may explain the high level of performance they often
achieve in
> the hunting field and in trials. Being more easily trained by
less
> physical pressure, they learn quickly and retain lessons well.

Hey? That's what I've been telling you bums for years.

Now you notice.

NEXT, you FORGET and resume HURTING the dog again
ON ACCOUNT OF YOU LIKE TO HURT DOGS...AND CAN'T
TRAIN A DOG WITHHOWET HURTIN THEM.

> This is by no means universally applicable, of course.

Of course, that's HOWE come you got that title LYING in
front of your name, lying frosty dahl.

> When we think of such bitches as Nodak Bonnie Girl; Want To
> (Missy), one of the best bitches we have ever worked with; or
> Scarlett of Lakestone, also extremely talented, we are also
> reminded that great hardness is by no means exclusive to males.

Ahhh. Good. I like to remember all the dogs I've hurt in the past
because I didn't know any better. But the problem is, your list of
recent memory is already bigger than my entire list of forty years
professionally working with mostly giant breeds with handler
aggression problems from dogs having been abused by lying
dog abusing Thugs like you, lying frosty dahl.

> Breed differences in softness may perhaps be best addressed by
> considering the Chesapeake Bay Retriever.

Yes, now there's a dog you're AFRAID to HURT cause they'll likely
defend
themselves and let you have it, and customers frown on their so
called
self proclaimed expert trainers HANGING their dogs because they've
been
HURTING them and the dog was provoked to ultimately defend
himself.

> While they are considered the toughest of the retriever breeds
by
> many writers, the Chesapeake in fact has a distinct inclination
to
> softness.

Perhaps that's because you're AFRAID TO HURT THEM CAUSE
THEY TEND TO DEFEND THEMSELVES???

> We have seen many individuals of this breed who were so soft
that the
> slightest tap with a training stick would make them flinch and
cower.

Yes. The next move is to go for your throat.

Dogs don't LIKE being beaten.

> Some of these dogs can be well trained

SOME?

> if they have great talent and Drive,

But not by a dog abuser. YOU RUIN DOGS.

> but care must be taken to avoid traumatizing them with
> high levels of physical force;

Because they're likely to rip your goddamned throat out for ya.

I'd love to get you in court in front of a criminal jury for dog
abuse.

> the Chesapeake rarely can learn through these methods and
> is easily ruined.

That's HOWE COME our Labrador lovers have bred their dogs
DOWN to be willing to tolerate being jerked and choked and
beaten and shocked and having their ears and toes and testicles
pinched and twisted.

> Labs and Goldens can be found in all combinations of softness
and
> hardness, as well as with variations in speed, drive and other
traits,
> but the same principles of training apply.

You mean if we don't hurt and intimidate the dog they learn
faster.

> Chesapeake Bay Retrievers are often soft

You mean they don't understand PAIN and INTIMIDATION. When they
collapse, that's when they get dangerous, because you risk pushing
their
SURVIVAL INSTINCT button, and that's when the dog turns on you.

Chessies are too big for a gentle lady like yourself to HANG
unless
you're prepared in advance with a hitch on something or a nice
tree
limb or door to HANG your student over till his eyes roll back in
his
head and his tongue turns thick and blue and falls out the side of
its mouth and when you put IT on the ground it should stagger to i
t's feet and PUKE, or you didn't freakin HANG IT PROPERLY... as
per your koehler book.

> In training the soft dog it is of utmost importance to show the
dog
> what is expected of her or him.

Oy! What a miserable s.o.b. you are. A soft dog you're gonna
train, a
tough dog you're gonna beat and shock and choke and twist and
pinch???

> Often the trainer must find a creative solution to make a
concept
> clear to that particular dog.

You mean like my plan to see you criminally prosecuted as a dog
abuser?

> Once the dog understands through these demonstrations what you
> require, very little force is needed to get results.

Once you're committed to a criminal facility for the mentally
insane,
we'll get laws passed protecting J. Q. Pubic from abusers like you
and janet boss and lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn and cindymooreon...
and the rest of your Thug pals who call themselves EXPERT dog
trainers because they can beat a dog to make it fearful enough to
"REALLY DIG OUT to beat your stick"...

> For example, many dogs need to be convinced to return from an
> opposite shore by water after getting their bird.

Yeah. Imagine if you called IT and IT realized you couldn't HURT
IT at
that range?

Maybe YOU FEAR watching five or six months of beatin and choking
and shocking a CASH CUSTOMER'S dog flip you the dew claw and
head for the hills where he won't ever get shocked or choked or
beaten
or chucked or cuffed or twisted or pinched again, DISSAPPEAR!!!

Damn, you got lots of ways to HURT a dog, don't you?
I've never done most of what you teach.

> One common method is to first teach the "here" (come) command
and
> collar condition the dog,

O.K., EXXXPERT. Collar conditioning refers to leavin the collar
on the dog for a week or two PRYOR to SHOCKIN IT so IT
don't figger the COLLAR is what's to BE FEARED, and will
therefor ONLY work while wearing the abusive device.

> then on the retrieve "here" "here" and they will plunge in and
come back.

Yeah? Suppose your shock collar malfunctions?

YOU GOT A LOST DOG AGAIN...

> Alternatively, the "here" command can be taught and thoroughly
> reinforced in the yard using distractions and correction
(typically
> a jerk on a long check cord),

Oh... Nobody jerks and chokes dogs to train them to come...
NOT HERE, anyHOWE.

> until the dog is so reliable he or she can be called back across
the
water.

Well, seems nobody recommends jerking a dog to make IT come. BUT
SHOCKING IT seems to be in vogue. What's the difference? You're
punishing the dog for coming no matter HOWE you lie about what
you're
doing.

We'll discuss the come command, snake, and poison proofing, and
collar conditioning in another EXXXPOSE of our dog abusing Thugs.

> We currently have some Chesapeake puppies who need to learn this
> lesson.

NO DHOWET.

You shove your fingers down their throats to choke them out of
mouthing
anything, in the litter box. That's HOWE COME you got to beat and
choke
and shock them to take the retrieve article.

AND THAT'S HOWE COME YOU CAN'T TRAIN THEM TO COME
WITHOWET A SHOCK COLLAR BEING WORN AT ALL TIMES.

> They are too small to wear the electric collar

Your pal fraudreck of sit means sit shock collar talk net radio
suggested
punching some extra holes in the collar.

Pretty smart, huh?

> and as they are soft-natured

Until you start choking and beating them.

> and beginning to teethe (a condition which exacerbates softness

SOFTNESS??? YOU MEAN PISSIN THEMSELVES HOWETA FEAR
and PANCAKING on the grHOWEnd submissively?

> in many dogs),

Yes, because you shove your fingers down their throats to choke
them out
of mouthing ANYTHING, THAT'S HOWE COME YOU GOT TO HURT THEM
TO FORCE THEM TO PICK SOMETHING UP.

> the second method is much too harsh,

For a YOUNG puppy.

> so we are applying the soft-dog method.

You mean, you're REFRAINING from HURTIN THEM.

> We demonstrate the principle by making it impossible to do
> anything but come straight back.

You mean you jerk and choke them on your pronged spiked
pinch choke collar and drag them back to you.

> We use a large trolling reel, 40 lb test monofilament

AND???

> and a trolling rod handle

To jerk and choke the puppy with...

> (end of the line attached to the puppy, of course).

Yes, the chokee.

> Put it in free spool and thumb the spool going out to avoid
> a backlash and when the dog reaches the far shore and the bird
> simply reel him back slowly but with steady pressure.

Choking him all the while on your pronged spiked pinch choke
collar.

> If this is done correctly

There ain't no correct way to jerk choke beat or shock a dog.
When you care to TEACH The Puppy Wizard HOWE to do
so, we'll call for a panel of jurists to observe the LESSON
and we'll call it a criminal trial for animal abuse. When the
jurors invite you to halt abusing your dogs, you'll be escorted
to a SOFT ROOM where you'll be swaddled in a nylon shirt
and you'll be wearin a paper robe and slippers, till you come
HOWET of your power induced fog and are ready to be held
for CRIMINAL SENTENCING as an animal abuser.

> the dog will never panic and will take kindly to being guided
> directly back to his ever-so-forbearing trainer.

Where he'll be tied to a tree and beaten to motivate IT to
REALLY DIG IN to beat the stick, and sent again for another
drag and choke till IT gets the idea that runnin away is futile
and painful.

> Usually very few repetitions are necessary for the lesson
> to be learned.

Amazing!

You say you didn't NEED to HURT the dog. But you did need to
hurt him up till then, because that's the nature of a dog abusing
Thug, or you'd have NO WAY to KNOW if the dog is HARD or SOFT
cause the ONLY way you'll KNOW if a dog is soft or hard is to
HURT IT and SEE HOWE IT RESPONDS.

You're no trainer, you're a liar and a dog abuser and you're
rippin your customers off for the best of their dog's abilities
and months of worthless training and board to have you an
your IDIOT dh BEAT and CHOKE and SHOCK their dog till
it is afraid to do anything but HUNT?

Hmm. The Puppy Wizard always thought dogs loved to hunt.

> This method is not for use in "cheating" situations but simply
for
> getting a soft, unschooled dog to return and not mill around on
the
> far shore.

Right. The "cheaters" get shocked, beaten, or choked IN ADVANCE,
to keep them honest.

> Every aspect of training should be made crystal clear to
> the soft dog before employing such methods as electric collar
> reinforcement, slingshot, etc.

Oh goody, we were talking about your use of the slingshot.

You denied you use it to shoot the dog, as koehler teaches.

I've never read this web page before as my stomach usually
empties uncontrollably HOWETA the wrong end when I read
about hurting dogs to train them by expert dog trainers who
don't do what they say they do when they're talking about
not doing what they'd never do.

Like you've said, you'd never hit a dog.

> Another creative solution was needed for FC Glenspey's Evergreen
> Cricket, whom John got in training at 11 months of age. A
talented
> bitch, Cricket was also very soft and had been treated roughly
by
> others before she came here.

But you'd NEVER do THAT.

> She would try to escape any physical correction and was good at
it.

IMAGINE? You musta tried HARD.

> She had become so shy of big men during her puppyhood that
> any hulking stranger of six feet in height could put her to
flight.

Oh. Well, perhaps that's on account of she's afraid your dummy
dh john will BUSHWHACK HER and haul her off the grHOWEnd
and BEAT HER a few times as he's obligated to do at your bidding?

> In one Qualifying stake judged by a particularly large and heavy
man,
> Cricket practically bolted when he raised his judge's book over
her head
> to call for the birds in the first series.

That's cause it reminds her of your dh john whippin her with a
belt
while suspended in the air by her pronged spiked pinch choke
collar.

> This fear of large men had to be solved. Cricket loved treats,
and
> we capitalized on this by distributing treats to all of the
large
> men we knew at a field trial -- there are usually several. John
> would approach these men -- to Cricket, monsters -- with her on
lead
> and casually encourage her up to them. The men, having been
briefed,
> would call her up in a gentle way and feed her treats. It
worked.
> Cricket lost her fear of big men and became competitive in field
> trials.

Whoopie! You overcame the fears you instilled in her...trying to
teach IT to want to hunt...

> The modern electric collar has become an excellent tool for
> reinforcement of taught commands among soft dogs in particular.

You mean, to MOTIVATE the dog to want to work.

> By comparison, the emotion and drama of shouting and running out
to the
> dog to make a correction,

To beat the dog? Yeah, that's HOWE COME you have dh dummy john
BUSHWACK the dog... and BEAT IT for you.

> as needed in conventional training,

You think conventional training means HURT the dog?

> can be too threatening for many soft dogs.

You mean, dogs that'll BREAK when you HURT them?

> Furthermore, the superior timing of corrections with the collar

Yeah. See "Swiss Cheese" method where The Puppy Wizard
reviewed your method and pointed HOWET fifteen mistaken
BURNS you inflicted on your dog to confHOWEND her in the
field... That's HOWE COME it takes you six months or MOORE
to train a dog that should take a couple weeks if you didn't HURT
IT.

> generally allows lessons to be learned with fewer corrections.

That so? Pryor, you said you expertly train the dog first, and
ony rely on BURNING THE DOG for "finishing IT."

> The lower levels of shock are no problem for the soft dog

Yeah? Is that HOWE COME they got TEST LITES?

> but they act as a reminder that someone out there is maintaining
control.

You mean, ready to HURT them.

> Often corrections

You mean inflicting pain fear and force.

> can be accomplished with no shock at all merely by holding aloft
the
transmitter,

THREATENING the dog with the trainsmitter? Didn't you say the
dog won't associate YOU with the SHOCK????

But NOW IT DOES?

> recognizable to the dog from a considerable distance.

BECAUSE THE DOG KNOWS YOU ARE HURTING IT.

> On the other hand,

It's EZier than havin dummy dh john BUSHWHACK AND BEAT HER.

> the really hard dogs sometimes require such an escalation of
shock
> intensity that even they are often confused and scared by the
sensation
> of hard shock.

That'd be considered CRUEL, even by you, lying frosty dahl.

Wouldn't you agree?

> It is of course absolutely necessary to know your dog

Yeah, kinda like The Puppy Wizard would like to get to know you...

> and what he can take,

You mean HOWE MUCH PAIN IT CAN WITHSTAND before
running away, pancaking, or attackin you or anybody nearby.

> and learn from,

You sayin we learn best by gettin choked and shocked for
doin HOWER most favorite passtimes???

> before applying any physical pressure in a training situation.

And then what, you GUESS HOWE MUCH PAIN IT LIKES???

> Soft dogs often prove to be excellent performers as well as
rapid
learners.

Yeah, that's what happens when you DON'T HURT THEM.

> So we should perhaps not decry the soft dog as an inadequate
wimp,

Because they won't stand up to your abusive training methods?

> but rather see softness as a trait to be taken advantage of

Oh? By learning HOWE to train all dogs withHOWET HURTIN THEM?

> through which we can train a dog more quickly, efficiently and
thoroughly.

You mean withHOWET HURTIN THEM, like HOWE The Puppy
Wizard's students report?

>The soft dog may be showing us, "Hey! you don't have to hurt me

RIGHT.

> much,

MUCH? You don't gotta HURT the dog MUCH to achieve faster
and better learning than HURTIN IT A LOT???

> I get the idea,

The dog does, the dog abuser doesn't. The dog abuser LOVES
HER WORK. You can tell by the detailed knowled of dog's
response's to the PAIN she enjoys inflcting.

> and I'd like to cooperate."

Yeah, "if you'd kindly stop CHOKIN and SHOCKIN me, please."

> Let's hope many of them are that way and that we, as trainers,

You're not a trainer, you're a dog abuser a liar and a rip off.

> can recognize it and make the most of it when they come to
> us with that wonderful nature.

Ain't that touchin? You gonna LOVE workin dogs when we get
LAWS PASSED protecting them from thugs like you.

> lying frosty dahl
> http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force2.html
> Oak Hill Kennel, Pinehurst, NC (910) 295-6710
> Copyright \ufffd 1998 Oak Hill Kennel



The Puppy Wizard
2003-10-03 05:34:18 EST

"Jack Slater" <jdslater@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:L63fb.24039$%h1.13301@sccrnsc02...
> I'm newbie to the group an am wondering if I can get some
direction on
> training 3 year old maltese to fetch?
>
>


Here's your EXXXPERT dog trainers from N.C., the lying
frosty and john dahl's, ENDORSED and RECOMMENDED
by HOWER good professor lying doc SCRUFF SHAKE
dermer of the department of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at UofWI:

Oak Hill Kennel
Force-Fetching Without "The Collar" Part I
by John and Amy Dahl
First published in The Retriever Journal, February/March 1998

Force-fetching is the process of making a dog absolutely reliable
in its
bird/dummy handling and delivery. It converts retrieving from a
matter of
play to a matter of obedience. It provides a foundation of
confidence for
advanced training--no matter how confusing or stressful a
situation, the dog
knows that going when sent is the right thing to do. This
confidence is the
basis of greater style and intensity than is possible in any
play-retrieve.

Although many owners are uncomfortable applying systematic direct
pressure
(i.e. pain) to their dogs, it is far more humane to force-fetch,
and yields
infinitely better results, than to situationally reprimand a dog
that lacks
the foundation to understand clearly what its trainer desires.


You do not need an electric collar to force-fetch your dog. The
main
advantage
of the collar is in giving well-timed corrections to a dog working
at a
distance.
For close-in work, other methods of reinforcement are equally or
more
effective.

Force-fetching may be the most intimidating part of training for
the novice.
Many feel it can only be done by a professional. Some of the best
retriever
writers--James Lamb Free, for one--say that it is unnecessary.
Others
mention it but don't provide instructions. Why such frustrating
vagueness?
One reason is that it is done differently for every dog, and
experience is a
great asset in knowing when to apply pressure, when to let up, and
when to
move on.

We hope, in this article, to give you the information you need to
make these
judgments, and to do a good job force-fetching your own retriever.
Our
procedure works on a wide variety of dogs, including the softest
Chesapeakes; while some tough Labs may be rushed through by
increasing the
pressure, we do not recommend this, particularly for novice
trainers.

You do not need an electric collar to force-fetch your dog. The
main
advantage of the collar is in giving well-timed corrections to a
dog working
at a distance, with greater safety and less elaborate setups than
older
methods such as the shotgun, slingshot, or BB gun. For close-in
work, other
methods of reinforcement are equally or more effective. Many
successful
collar trainers today teach obedience and force-fetch without the
collar,
then use the dog's understanding of commands to introduce
electric-shock
correction, instead of teaching with the collar.

The first key to successful force-fetching is to judge progress by
the dog's
response at each step, not according to what you have done or a
timetable of
predicted results. No one can tell you how long it will or should
take to
force-fetch your dog. Dogs vary widely in the time it takes to
master
force-fetch, and progress depends further on the trainer: how
effectively
he/she communicates with the dog, consistency of work, etc. Be
sure the dog
has fully mastered each step before attempting the next. Don't get
hung up
on trying to get the job done fast--focus instead on what a good,
reliable
retriever your dog is going to be.

The second key is patience. Most retrievers will try your
patience! Progress
in force-fetching is not steady, but tends to go in jumps and
breakthroughs
(with periods of no apparent progress in between). At some point,
or at
several points, the lack of correct response is likely to make you
feel that
you are in a struggle or contest with your dog, and by golly, you
are going
to win! The way to win is through patience. With continual
insistence you
will outlast all of your dog's explorations of how not to fetch
properly. Do
not be in a hurry; skipping or shortcutting steps will cost you
much more
time and frustration down the road.

The third key is the dog's attitude. As Mike Lardy says, "there is
no
attitude drill." The only way to develop an eager, happy retriever
is to
maintain the dog's trust and enthusiasm throughout its training,
including
force-fetching. This is the most demanding phase of training the
dog has yet
faced--don't make it a miserable grind. We want to teach a
productive and
confident response to training pressure. In every session, mix in
movement
(heeling, coming when called) and build confidence by reviewing
work the dog
knows. Some sessions may begin or end with a "happy bumper" if it
doesn't
reinforce bad habits like dropping the dummy. Keep sessions
short--five
minutes is plenty. Do not begin before your dog\ufffds permanent teeth
are fully
in; it must be able to hold the dummy firmly without pain.


Place the dummy in the dog's
mouth as described in the text

Support the dog's chin and
praise
Give some thought to your attitude, too. Refrain from trying to
evaluate
your dog's quality or potential while you are force-fetching it.
Ease of
force-fetching has very little to do with the overall quality of
the dog,
and progress will often seem slow or imperceptible. Do not take
this as a
reflection on your dog or on you as a trainer.

The details of the procedure, such as commands used, ear pinch vs.
toe
pinch, and whether or not to use a training table, can be varied
with good
results. We describe our method, but if you are fortunate enough
to work
under the supervision of an experienced trainer, we encourage you
to follow
his or her instructions.

Before beginning force-fetch, the dog must have mastered basic
obedience:
"heel," "sit," "stay," come when called. It is easiest if the dog
wears a
choke or pinch collar, to which a checkcord is attached, and a
wide (one
inch) buckle collar adjusted to be snug and ride high on the dog's
neck
behind its head.


Accepting the Dummy
This step may be anything from trivially easy to a prolonged
ordeal. Tell
the dog to "sit" in the heel position. Attempt to place the dummy
in the
dog's mouth as follows: with your left hand on top of the dog's
muzzle, find
the indentation in the gum behind the upper canine teeth. With the
right
hand place the dummy against the front of the dog's mouth. Pull
upward with
your left while pressing in and downward with the dummy against
the dog's
chin with your right. As the dog's mouth begins to open, roll the
dummy in
over the lower canine teeth. Say, "hold" and cage the dog's mouth
with your
right hand.
Most dogs respond with some degree of head movement--open their
mouths wide
to drop the dummy, try to push it away with their tongue, etc. If,
in its
efforts to resist, the dog stands up, forget the dummy and give an
emphatic
sit correction while saying, "Sit!" Then start over. If the dog
repeatedly
stands up to struggle, back up and work on obedience some more.
You may find
it helps to switch from a choke to a pinch collar.

As soon as the dog relaxes and accepts the situation, praise it,
then take
the dummy out of its mouth while saying, "leave it!" Heel forward
a few
steps, sit the dog, and repeat.

An important principle of training is to avoid getting into any
protracted
physical struggles with a dog. If your dog is committed to
fighting
introduction of the dummy into its mouth, put a loop of its check
cord
around its muzzle before putting in the dummy (see photo
sequence). Pull to
tighten the check cord, and the dog is now fighting the cord
instead of you.
While many dogs succeed in spitting the dummy out, repetition of
this
procedure usually gets them to accept the dummy satisfactorily.


If necessary, make a loop to
put over the dog's muzzle Snug it up and the dummy
stays in


Holding the Dummy
This is the step most likely to be shortcut by the inexperienced
trainer
eager to get to advanced work, usually with bad results. The goal
is to get
the dog to hold the dummy firmly and without dropping, first while
sitting
still and then while moving (walking, trotting, running). When
John started
training years ago, this constituted the whole of force-fetching,
and even
now we consider it more important than the ear pinch. Continuing
before a
dog is solid can lead to nervous snapping at the dummy or bird
followed by
spitting it out, or to incessant chomping and rolling, even
crushing birds
(hardmouth).

Progress to holding without
support

Using a stick to encourage
a firm hold. Praise when the
dog's grip tightens
Once the dog is accepting the dummy without a struggle, place the
dummy in
the dog's mouth, say "Hold," and support its jaw with a hand under
its chin
to prevent its dropping the dummy. Praise the dog--tell it,
"Good!" while
rubbing its ears with the other hand. After about four or five
seconds, take
hold of the dummy with your right hand, say "leave it!," and roll
the dummy
out of the dog's mouth (never snatch the dummy away). Heel the dog
forward
and repeat. Holds should start out fairly brief; ultimately we
want to
condition the dog to like having a dummy in its mouth, so don't
prolong it
to the point where it becomes distasteful.

Next we want to get the dog to take responsibility for holding the
dummy.
When the dog is comfortable with the five-second hold with your
hand
supporting its chin (often in the first session), lower your hand
briefly;
if the dog's hold slackens, quickly bring your hand back up to
close its
mouth and repeat "Hold!" If the dog lowers its head, raise it back
up when
you return your hand to its chin.

We then increase the dog's responsibility by adding correction.
Now when you
place the dummy in the dog's mouth and lower your hand from its
chin, allow
the dog to drop the dummy and, as soon as the dummy leaves the
dog's mouth,
chuck the dog under the chin with your ever-ready right hand while
saying
"No!" For a cooperative or young dog, use a fairly gentle tap--it
will
understand your disapproval. Tougher, less tractable dogs may
require you to
progress to striking them more sharply. Quickly put the dummy back
in the
dog's mouth and repeat, "Hold."

Mix up holds with correction and holds where you "rescue" the dog
from its
mistake by supporting its chin. If the dog gets to quickly
spitting out the
dummy and ducking away, you are using too much correction and not
enough
help. Praise the dog when the dummy is in its mouth, whether the
dog is
holding on its own or whether you are supporting it. Continue to
heel the
dog forward frequently, after doing one to three holds in one
spot. As the
dog learns, lengthen the duration of holds, but continue to keep
the
sessions short. Always try to end with success, even if you have
to simplify
the task in order for the dog to be successful.

Don't be surprised if, as you progress with this stage, you find
your dog
clamping his mouth shut so that you need to pry it open to put the
dummy in.
This is common and is usually associated with a firmer grip when
holding.
Take it as a sign you are making headway.

As the dog gets the idea, increase its level of responsibility.
Walk out
front, then all the way around the dog as it sits holding the
dummy. With a
stick, tap and stroke the dog's body, neck, even legs. This is to
teach the
dog that it must concentrate and hold on regardless of
distractions. Next
use the stick to tap the ends of the dummy. The dog should respond
by
tightening its grip (praise it!). You can also jerk the dummy cord
lightly
while saying "Hold." Here is where you can make some headway with
a
slack-mouthed dog or one that rolls and chomps the dummy. Tap the
dummy when
it is dangling or when the dog is rolling it. If the dog drops it,
chuck it
solidly under the chin, say "No! Hold!" and put the dummy back in
place.


Use tension on the lead, chin
support, body language, and praise
to get the dog moving


Moving While Holding
Getting the dog to hold the dummy while moving is a challenge. If
you tell
the dog to "heel" while it is holding the dummy, the likely
response is to
spit out the dummy and trot along beside you, tail high. It
appears to be
thinking, "oh, what a relief. Back to plain old simple heeling and
done with
this stressful dummy-in-the-mouth stuff!" It works better to get
the dog
moving without a command. Help the dog by putting your right hand
under its
chin, pull forward on its lead with your left, and repeat, "Hold."
The dog
will probably act confused, so make sure you support its jaw and
praise it
as soon as it begins to move. Don't go far--a couple of steps is
plenty the
first time. Have the dog sit and "Leave it."

Work until the dog will hold
and heel at a run

Use the same techniques as before to get the dog holding the dummy
on its
own while moving, and to get it moving farther. Keep working until
the dog
can go over obstacles at a fast trot or lope without dropping the
dummy.
Have it come to heel position and sit while holding. For all this
movement,
use body language rather than verbal commands ("sit" usually does
not cause
a problem).

While none of these steps should be skipped or shortcut, it
sometimes works
to get the dog moving with the dummy before using the stick to
create
distractions. This is especially good for dogs which quickly learn
to hold
the dummy tightly and without chomping and rolling it. For dogs
with more
nervous mouths, work with them sitting until they will hold the
dummy firmly
and still.

In Part II, we will describe how to get the dog to grab the dummy
on
command, thus developing a fast, positive pick-up and laying the
foundation
for going when sent.

Oak Hill Kennel, Pinehurst, NC (910) 295-6710
Copyright \ufffd 1998 Oak Hill Kennel

==================================

Oak Hill Kennel
Force-Fetching Without "The Collar" Part II
by John and Amy Dahl
First published in The Retriever Journal, April/May 1998

Last issue we described how to teach your dog the most important
part of
force-fetch: to carry and deliver dummies with a firm hold and
without
fumbling, rolling, or dropping them. With the "fetch" command, we
condition
a fast, positive pick-up and, equally important, establish the
basis for
reliably going when sent. When the procedure is complete, you will
discover
an added benefit in the dog's respect for, and appreciation of,
your
authority. Responses to commands become faster and more willing;
in general
the dog seems to thrive on being given instructions and on
learning, in
place of the doubtful compliance typical of the unforced dog.


Introduction of the Fetch Command
This step is not difficult, but it is important for what follows.
As when
you were beginning the hold, place the dummy in the dog's mouth,
but this
time say "Fetch!" as you do so. Give the dog a chance to get a
good grip on
the dummy and hold it for a second or two, then take the dummy as
you say,
"Leave it!" or your release command. Continue to include movement
and an
occasional longer hold. Five to ten repetitions of "fetch!" in one
spot
could be followed by holding while heeling to a new spot. Use your
judgment
regarding praise in this stage: for some dogs it is motivating,
but others
are distracted by it. You can always praise a dog that sits to
deliver after
an extended hold.

Preliminary: grasp the
collar, force dummy into
the dog's mouth while
saying, "Fetch."

Administering the ear pinch.
Spend enough repetitions so you are sure the dog understands that
"fetch"
means "the dummy goes in the mouth." Now get ready for a session
that will
last as long as it takes. It is time to expand the meaning of
"fetch" to
mean, "open your mouth and accept the dummy." Start with a review
of the
"fetch"-"leave it" routine. Then sit the dog, grasp hold of the
tight buckle
collar with your left hand, hold the dummy in front of its mouth
with your
right hand, and say, "fetch" as you press the dummy against the
dog's lips.

A common and reasonable response to the sudden discomfort is
resistance--the
dog clamps its mouth shut. This is fine, except that you are going
to keep
up the pressure until you overcome the resistance. It may take a
few seconds
or over an hour. If resistance is prolonged, repeat, "fetch" in a
calm voice
at intervals to remind the dog that you are asking it to do
something
specific. When the clenched mouth slackens, quickly roll in the
dummy.

Repetitions of this routine should quickly become easier. Continue
to
practice until the dog readily opens its mouth on command. Now you
are ready
to progress to what most people think of as force-fetching: the
ear pinch.


Reaching for the Dummy
Slip an empty shotshell into your pocket before the next session.
As always,
begin with some review. Then sit the dog. Take hold of its buckle
collar and
ear as follows. Slide the last three fingers of your left hand
towards the
dog's head under the collar, and curl them over the collar to
grasp it
firmly. With your thumb and index finger, pull the dog's left ear
back over
the collar (inside up) and hold it there gently. The "ear pinch"
is
administered by pressing with your thumbnail at the boundary
between hair
and bare skin (don't pinch yet). Depending on the size and
strength of your
hands, you may want to press against the collar or against your
index finger
.
Hold the dummy in front of the dog's mouth. Say "fetch" while
pressing the
dummy against its lips and pinching its ear. If the dog opens its
mouth,
roll the dummy in and quickly let off the ear pressure as you do.
Praise it.
You want it to get the idea that the ear-pinch means, "get that
dummy in
your mouth!"

If the dog clenches its mouth shut, you may be in for another
extended
session. Keep pinching and press the dummy harder against the
dog's lips.
Repeat "fetch." Again, keep your voice calm. If several minutes
pass and the
dog still does not open its mouth, get out the shotshell. Try
pinching the
ear between the metal casing and the collar, even the buckle on
the collar.
Persist! Eventually, the dog will give in and open its mouth. Be
ready, roll
that dummy in, stop the ear pressure, and praise the dog.

Fortunately, you usually don't have to fight this battle more than
once
(perhaps because the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided
it isn't
worth it). After a fetch command, the dog (not you) should be
holding the
dummy. Tell it to "leave it" as you take it away.

If your dog resists opening its mouth, just do 10-15 repetitions
and end the
session. If it complies readily, then after a few repetitions
pinch its ear
and say, "fetch," but hold the dummy still and maintain ear
pressure. Use
your hold on the buckle collar to force the dog's head forward. As
soon as
the dog's mouth is approximately around the dummy, release the
pressure. The
command now means, "reach forward and take the dummy." Repeat.

As it starts to get the idea, stop pushing its head forward. You
want the
forward momentum to come from the dog. Soon it will try to grab
the dummy
before you can pinch it. Hold it back by the collar until you give
the
command. As when we restrain young dogs on marks, this restraint
will
increase its forward drive.

Start mixing in instances where you give the command and stop
restraining
the dog, but do not pinch the ear. Try not to be predictable about
when you
do and do not pinch--maybe pinch twice in a row, then do three
fetches with
no pinch. You want the dog to think that it is "beating the pinch"
by
getting the dummy fast. Any time it is slow, pinch! Now you can
use a new
standard for knowing when it is time to progress: if the dog is
reliable at
one level after several repetitions without a pinch, it is
probably ready to
move on.

Start holding the dummy four or five inches in front of the dog
when you say
"fetch." When it is solid reaching this far, hold the dummy
farther forward.
Soon it will have to stand up in order to reach far enough. Now
tell it to
"hold," then "sit" with the dummy before telling it to "leave it."
If you
restrain it by holding the collar, it should start lunging
aggressively for
the dummy when released. If it doesn't, you may be trying to
advance too
fast--back up and work on a shorter reach. Be sure you are in
position with
your hold on collar and ear every time you give the command,
whether you
plan to pinch or not.

When your dog will lunge three feet and grab the dummy, whether
you pinch
its ear or not, you are ready to move on.


Picking the Dummy up from the Ground
This is another area where resistance is common. It seems that
picking up an
object from the ground requires a far greater subordination of
will than
does grabbing it from your hand, and most dogs need some
convincing. We try
to break it down into several parts: holding the dummy lower,
holding just
above the ground, holding by the string with one end on the
ground, standing
with toe on end of dummy so that it is tilted up, and finally
dummy lying on
the ground. Progress through the different holding positions as
before: when
the dog is solid and reliable, move on to the next. Make sure,
when the
dummy starts contacting the ground, that it does not get dirty or
sandy.
Dogs don't like the feeling of grit in their teeth. Working on a
lawn will
keep it clean.
If your dog is one that totally balks at picking the dummy up off
the
ground, and you have tried going back to review previous steps,
you might
make some headway by giving in a little. Toss a dummy forward far
enough to
be a short freebie and release the dog. Repeat but say "fetch" as
you
release it. Repeat, shortening the distance--approaching the
problem from
the opposite direction, as it were. Sometimes simply kicking the
dummy to
move it forward a little is all that is needed. Intuitively it
seems as
though the dog must be forced through every part of this
procedure, but
experience shows that relenting a little at this point may be just
as
effective.

Some dogs will not respond to "easing up" with a short throw, but
will
squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to escaping the
ear pinch by
every possible means except getting the dummy. As mentioned
previously, it
is important not to establish a pattern of struggling with the dog
physically. If you cannot physically restrain the dog, increasing
the
pressure may do the trick. You can press the dog's ear with a
shotshell
instead of your thumb; even get a studded collar and pinch the ear
against
that. Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so urgent that
resisting your
will fades in importance.

While many Labrador and Golden retrievers can be accelerated
through
force-fetch by using heavy pressure from the beginning, we do not
recommend
that inexperienced trainers use this heavy-handed approach. If you
cannot
reliably tell when the dog understands for sure what is expected,
pressure
becomes mere abuse. The cost to the dog's confidence, in you and
in its
work, is great.

By the time this issue is resolved, most dogs will dive on the
dummy when
you say, "fetch," but many will fumble it, lie down, or just be
very slow to
come up with it. This is continued resistance to your increasing
authority,
and the job is not done until it is overcome. As your dog lunges
forward
toward the dummy, move forward yourself so the dog remains in heel
position.
As soon as its jaws reach the dummy, pull its head up with your
hand on the
collar. This works best if you continue moving forward a step or
two past
where the dummy was lying. If the dog drops the dummy,
correct--use a chuck
under the chin or pinch its ear and place the dummy in its mouth.
If it
doesn't make rapid progress, you can increase the pressure by
requiring it
to pick up the dropped dummy (stay on the ear until it does).



Pull the dog's head forward and up to develop
a quick pick-up. The thumb is ready if the
dog fumbles and drops the dummy. Reviewing with movement helps
maintain a good attitude

When the dog executes these fetches reliably without correction,
without
your having your hand on its ear and collar, you are ready for the
last
step.

Stick Fetch

Stick fetch. By now the dog
is lunging for the dummy.
Stick fetch accomplishes two things: it teaches the dog that
distractions
are no excuse to ignore a "fetch" command and it transfers much of
the
momentum-producing power of the ear pinch to the stick, thus
providing a
basis for force-on-back.
Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper wield the
stick, or
do it yourself. Don't make the stick any more obvious than it has
to be.
With the dog at heel, toss the dummy about three feet in front of
the dog.
With your hand on the collar and ear, say, "fetch." Immediately
tap the dog
on the hindquarters with the stick. Repeat "fetch" and pinch the
ear all the
way to the dummy. Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog,
sometimes not
hitting it. Again, you want to make the dog think that by going
fast it can
avoid the stick. As it catches on, try using the stick and no ear
pinch.
Usually not many sessions are needed (maybe 3-6). When the dog is
digging
out to beat the stick and seems totally reliable without any ear
pinch, you
are finished--you have successfully force-fetched your retriever.

Many trainers follow force-fetching with a "walking fetch" drill
where
several dummies are lying on the ground, ten feet or more apart.
Trainer
approaches dummies with dog at heel and says, "fetch" as dog's
attention
focuses on the first dummy. Any refusals are corrected with the
ear pinch.
After the dog sits to deliver, the trainer can drop the dummy
behind the dog
for a later circuit. When performance is smooth, the stick can be
added just
as in the fetch from a sitting position. If the previous steps
have been
carefully done, the dog will soon be lunging eagerly for each
dummy as soon
as it sees it.

We then work on getting the dog to wait until it is commanded to
"fetch,"
using repeated "heel" commands and jerks on the lead. Generally we
don't
pursue this to the point where it is absolute--the dog's getting
the idea is
enough. Not all youngsters can take heavy drilling on
contradictory ideas
such as "go" and "don't go."


"Happy bumpers" can also be good for the dog's attitude.
The walking fetch drill makes the transition to picking up a dummy
the dog
finds on the ground, not only one which has just been thrown or
placed by
the trainer. Now the dog can be sent to a pile, the foundation for
forcing
on "back" and for blind retrieves. It can be sent, with
appropriate hand
signals, to side and back piles, making an introduction to
casting. And of
course, the dog should deliver perfectly and you, as trainer, have
the tools
to enforce this: command "hold" as the dog emerges from water and
considers
putting the bird down to shake, and pinch its ear if a dummy or
bird is ever
dropped. While force-fetching is now complete, training has become
more
varied and interesting and we are sure you will want to continue.

Oak Hill Kennel, Pinehurst, NC (910) 295-6710
Copyright \ufffd 1998 Oak Hill Kennel



KrisHur
2003-10-03 07:32:57 EST
In my competition classes the trainers always break it down to bits and
pieces.

First step is to get the dog allow you to put the dumbbell in her mouth. Say
your cue, "Take it" or "Fetch" while putting the dumbbell in her mouth. Hold
the dumbbell right against her lips and she should open her mouth, pop it
in. If she doesn't open up, you may need to open her mouth and put it in.
Either way, immediately take it back giving a release command, "Out" or
"Give" are common and use that cue when removing the dumbbell from her
mouth. Praise like crazy and treat when she accepts the dumbbell and gives
it up--instill in her mind that this is the most fun game ever played.

Next encourage her to hold it for a second--initially you may need to hold
her muzzle to keep her from spitting it out; say a cue such as "Hold".
Praise and treat for even a millisecond of holding (even if you needed to
hold her muzzle) and then hold out longer and longer before giving her the
cookie--move slowly and give her lots of encouragement--allow her to be more
right than wrong.

When she's readily taking it from your hand and holding it, offer it to her
a couple inches off the floor again using your cue.

When she's readily taking it from near the floor, put it on the floor and
give her the cue.

When she's doing that put the dumbbell a foot or two in front of her and
give her the cue. When she goes out to get it, as soon as it's in her mouth
tell her "Come". Praise and treat like crazy for coming to you with the
dumbbell.

If you are doing competition now is the time to encourage her to come front
and sit with the dumbbell until you take it. Don't worry if her front is
crooked right now you just want her to come and sit while holding the
dumbbell.

Have fun,

--
Kristen &
Kali CD, CGC, TDI, TT
http://www.kristenandkali.com




"Jack Slater" <jdslater@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:L63fb.24039$%h1.13301@sccrnsc02...
> I'm newbie to the group an am wondering if I can get some direction on
> training 3 year old maltese to fetch?
>
>


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