Dog Discussion: Housetraining A Older Dog

Housetraining A Older Dog
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Nic
2005-12-23 05:24:39 EST
we recently adopted a dog that is 18 months old. while the shelter had her
in her foster home she did not have any problems, she never did anything in
the house. now she just randomly pees on my carpet, she makes no indication
she wants to go out, and sometimes she does this like 5 minutes after i have
walked her. i dont know what to do with her. i want to be able to let her
roam the house but I cant while she is doing this. any ideas? please help.
please email me at nickie_anne@shaw.ca
thank you very much,
Nicole



T*@Mail.Com
2005-12-23 07:03:20 EST
HOWEDY nic,

nic wrote:
> we recently adopted a dog that is 18 months old.

Any three week old puppy got all the brains he needs to
HOWEtwit the cunning of the professional domestic puppy
dog trainer or university trained behaviorist.

WELCOME to The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual Forums. I'm Jerry Howe, The Amazing Puppy
Wizard. <{) ; ~ ) >

ONLY LIARS DOG ABUSERS COWARDS and ACTIVE ACUTE CHRONIC
LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES POST here abHOWETS.

> while the shelter had her in her foster home she did not
> have any problems, she never did anything in the house.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

"Training is not confrontation," lynn k.

<except when it is>

"So what? Whoever said that it's right to
always not confront? We sure can try, but
a dog who knows a command and growls when
given it is certainly being confrontational".
You can't simply walk away and pretend it
didn't happen or leave it for later work in
every situation." Lynn K.

"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs. It's a safety
necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
"Remember this - The decision to "do right" that most
helps a dog's character is the decision that he makes
himself. You cannot teach a dog to not want something,
any more than you can teach a human not to want something."

> now she just randomly pees on my carpet, she makes no indication
> she wants to go out, and sometimes she does this like 5 minutes
> after i have walked her.

HOWEsbreaking is INSTINCTIVE at four weeks of age. There's ONLY
TWO REASONS HOWE COME a dog would have HOWEsbreakin problems:

1. He's SICK.

OR

2. He's UPSET.

> i dont know what to do with her.

You can CURE HOWEsbreaking problems in WON DAY if you
study and follow the INSTRUCTIONS in your own FREE COPY
of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual:

<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>

> i want to be able to let her roam the house but I cant while she is doing this.

Your dog MIGHT be UPSET on accHOWENT of you restrict or bribe her.

> any ideas?

You AIN'T gonna be gettin no INFORMATION from the lying dog
abusing punk thug cowards and active acute chronic long term
incurable MENTAL CASES you're askin for advice here abHOWETS.

> please help.

If your dog is SICK the behavior METHODS WON'T
WORK and you'll KNOW you gotta take him to the vet.

> please email me at nickie_anne@shaw.ca

You'll probably be gettin some emails from the lyin dog abusing
punk thug cowards who'll tell you NOT to BELIEVE The Amazing
Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >

> thank you very much,

You're welcome.

> Nicole

From: Mike (m.bidd...@ns.sympatico.ca)
Subject: Re: Info. on the puppy wizard?
Date: 2004-07-18 14:27:02 PST

> > Oh, and did I mention his methods work, ya nuff said.
> > Mike

> Ok Mike which part worked for you?

It helped clear problems from my dogs in the
field using the can penny distraction technique.

Works like a charm.

My dogs get distracted easy from their jobs ie,
retrieving or training to find lost people, oh did
I mention that I am a Search and Rescue Team
Leader.

Sorry that slipped my mind.

I have read volumes of training books and don't
know where people get that Jerry copied others
work as I have NEVER come across his methods
before. I would like to see proof.

Just like Jerry outlined I eliminated problems one
at at time as they arose. I used to try and train to
the way I wanted them but this is backward, you
train out the problems leaving what you want left over.

Funny part is the second dog who had the same
problems as the other didn't need correcting for
some of his habits after I cleared it from the first
dog.

Seemed he learned through osmosis.

Nice side benefit there.

It nearly came to giving them up to a 3rd party
trainer as they were not performing well. The
VAST majority of working dog trainers are
agressive in their actions with the dogs.

I tried it and it didn't work and guess what I
was at my "Whits End" then someone I new
turned me onto Jerry and the rest is history.

I referred friends and families to Jerry's manual
and all have had great results. Starting puppies
out on the distraction technique is especially
good because they never develop the habit.

I had my sisters dog healing, sitting and down
stay reliably at 8-9 weeks. The first night home
following Jerrys advice we ditched the crate and
put the pup on the floor beside the bed and after
2 whimpers NOT A SOUND OUT OF THAT DOG
FOR 6 HRS! first night, that has never happened
in all my days.

Sorry, the man understands dogs its that simple.

Mike

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?

> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.

> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918australianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.

> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.

> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

From: "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com>
Date: 2 Dec 2005 10:55:41 -0800
Subject: Re: In defense of Jerry Howe's methods

Mary Healey wrote:
> I'm still asking for 5 original posts from people here at least 5
> years to support your initial contention (NOT HURTING DOGS TO TRAIN

THEM). You're 0 for 2, so far.

That's 2 in 2 as far as I'm concerned but hey, if you insist. I'm
really curious to see what will be the justification this time. So far
we have:

Limited choking? Hey, it's limited, As Neo would say: Woah, there is no

choke.

Dogs pumped full of prozac? Hey, they're trippin man. Remember
Woodstock. Euh.... Woodwhat?

E-Collar? I'm sure some of you will come up with: But my dog look so
pretty with an electrified perm. Swoooon.

So on with the fun. Taken from the "Collars" thread, started by Perry
Templeton June 20 2005

Denis

----------

On 26 Jun 2005 10:52:42 -0700, lucyaa...@claque.net, wrote:

> What does the "choke" in the "choke chain" stand for, then?
> Lucy

one reason I call them slip collars. Their is a correction involved,
and while it causes momentary discomfort, does not choke the dog.
OTOH, it is CAPABLE fo being used to do that, should a situation
warrant it.
--
Janet B
----------

And here's another one from the same author,
taken from the same thread.

----------

167. Janet B
Jun 21, 12:03 pm show options
On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:40:11 +0100, "Alison"

<*.@XYZallofus2.fsnet.co.uk>, wrote:
> I'm just wondering why you had to use choke chains to train"your
> dogs especially as they are so small.

Oh geez - let's see - how many JRTs act like alligators at the end of
a leash? I personally prefer prong collars.

----------

Let's go for the hat trick with the same author, taken from the same
thread:

----------

141. Janet B
Jun 27, 10:01 pm

I don't use choke chains. Not quite true - I use a jeweler's hex link
on Franklin at times - it's puuuuuurty. I know the "sound" thing
and all, and when training a dog in a non-group setting, that sound
may be a factor, but I think it fails in the context of a group class.

So, I prefer the better fitting nylon slip collars, and very often,
pinch collars (small link unless it's a freaky dog, then they need
the milder medium link).

But I use e-collars too. With one of my dogs and with some clients.
For circumstances where a physical collar and leash is not the right
answer. I'm sure Lucy has no clue what THAT means!
--
Janet B
----------

Rocky wrote:
> "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what would be the
> > point? Where I come from, choking is choking. It's never
> > limited.
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs. Thank you for
> your contribution.
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
Deltones wrote:
> Rocky wrote:
> > "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
> > rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what would be the
> > > point? Where I come from, choking is choking. It's never limited.

Not so in PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING, Deltones.

> > So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> > Thank you for your contribution.
> > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

Looks like you've pushed the mental cases over the edge again...

> Well, I think you carefully avoided quoting the last part of my post.
> You know the one about a bunch of little Colonel Parker doing Elvis's
> out of their dogs? Oh right, limited choking is not abuse, and pumping
> dogs full of drugs to make them behave ain't either in your world huh?
> For the benefit of our gentle readers, here's the part you forgot to
> quote:
> ----------
> Oh, what the hell. Check out a thread started around Nov 23 called
> "Help with a Nuerotic Hound..." where I wonder if you guys are talking
> about dogs or Woody Allen's pharmacy. I'll stick with praises and noise
> distraction to train my dog, thank you.
> ----------

HOWEDY janet,

Looks like you and your pals have gone totally INSANE again:

Janet B wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 14:44:14 -0500, Janet B
> <j...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com>, clicked their heels and said:
> >Since you quoted me repeatedly, where does it say I beat dogs, choke
> >dogs, scream at dogs, etc? Thanks for your clarification.
> responding to my own post, I had to go back and look at the original
> post, to remind myself what "we" are all accused of doing:
> "screaming, choking, shocking, pinching, beating the living crap
> out of your dogs"
> Scream? no
> Choke? no
> Shock? e-collars are a lot more sophisticated than that
> Pinch? if you want to classify a momentary discomfort by a prong
> collar, go ahead, but unless you have first hand experience with one,
> your opinion means nothing
> Beat the living crap out of? hardly - no hitting exists

"Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
stern correction"
--Janet Boss

"Janet Boss offered a pat on the back, commenting that
ultimately it wasn't Kate's decision. Whose was it? I asked.
Why, it was Teena's, averred Janet.

Janet was in an exculpatory frame of mind because she
contributed to this travesty herself, by advising Kate to
repeat the aggression trigger (grooming) on a daily basis.

It's all in the archives.

Now these two are spouting off about what kind of e-collars
they like to use on their dogs. Well, I've got an AC Delco
model that would be just right for Janet or Kate. BZZZZzzt!
I'd have to find it though, and I can't remember if I left
it in my underground bunker or the crawlspace under my
house," Charlie.

"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20040324071828.07753.00000001@mb-m18.aol.com...

> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...

> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916.10096.00001938@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.

An INSENSITIVE DOG???

> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.

captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A
ResoundingSound Distraction: "When You Chuck The Dog
The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To The Ears And
Give A Popping Sound To The Dog."

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

"Reliable Punishment Cycles, Different Thresholds To Pain And
Punishment, High Tolerance For Correction, Escalation Of Correction
To A Level Where The Dog Yelps When You Punish Him, Thus Making
The Experience One Which The Dog Will Want To Avoid In The Future,"
grant teeboon RAAF.

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."

THAT'S sumpthin to be PR-HOWED abHOWET.

"BethF" <b...@NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.com>
wrote in message
news:v4r8kkfr257e1a@corp.supernews.com...

Kyle, FWIW, i thought it was pretty funny,
and i often call my little dog the turd, because
he is one. Some folks think its HORRRIBLE i
would insult my dog like that so i guess its just a
matter of personality.

Kyle, the best way to teach him to stay away is to
step on him once. Seriously.

"Whatever Motivates The Dog, But I Daresay Most
Of The Dogs I Have In Classes Just Aren't That
Interested In Praise."

"BethF" <d...@alaska.com> wrote in message

news:uohnj3r4a4e85e@corp.supernews.com...

Maybe that's what we should do - hold back the dobie
girl so that Izzy can put Simon in his place.

------------------------------------------------------

"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness," mustang sally.

"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.

This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.

Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
Subject: Re: shock collars

Sally Hennessey <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message

news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63h8ekqiforibadrff2@4ax.com...

Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-
righteous, this post shows and absence of knowledge
in the differences in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps
a lack of ability to perceive same.

The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to
whom corrections and discomfort, even pain, were
unimportant does not mean that such dogs do not exist.

What it means is that you don't know as much about
dogs as you think you do, and you surely don't know
a damn thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.

I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with
one of her housemates; that dog had no fear or
anything, and pain incurred during a fight meant
nothing to her.

I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that
you, Alison, continue to say things to people such as
what you said to Theresa about causing her dog to
suffer (at least I guess that's what you meant by
"you cause your dog suffers" - - must be the King's
English you guys talk about over there) means that
you are an ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person
who is not worth further notice.

Sally Hennessey

"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message

news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv128jnumgmb2m27opr@4ax.com...

Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.

I'm starting to see some similarities here.

Sally Hennessey

From: Momi...@webtv.net (misty)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:29:09 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Jerry, why non-physical praise?

Beth wrote:
> So, jerry's techniques didnt' work for Peach?

Never had a chance to try them on her... I was still
using the e-fence and chains to keep her in the yard.

The suggestions I received here to keep Peach home were:
build a fence... wasn't going to happen.. we plan on putting
a modular home here within the next few years... put more
fence at the top of the pen I used so both dogs could play
bitey face w/o tangling, and similar suggestions.

Jerry was the only one to mention border training... but he
was kook supreme ;-P So I ignored him... no killfiles with
webtv.. at that time Jerry had his own troll, somewhat like
Candace, so the group was not very conducive to learning anything.

At one point I even b*tched about Jerry.

By the time I tried out Jerry's manual Peach had already ran away.

Not very good at the google groups search but you'll find my
first post at "runaway dog message 30" within that thread is
mention of the dogs taking off and being gone for 2 days. I
stopped posting for a bit... my middle boy was devastated that
his dog was gone... Zelda came home but not her mom.

The next few posts from me were ones about/to Jerry.

Then Jerry made the WETM accessible for webbes, I put it
in my e-mail (no storage otherwise on webby unless you put
stuff on a webpage) and read it, read it and read it.

Once I understood what the concept was, I implemented it
on Zelda. It worked and I now have a great housedog!

I only regret that my own distrust of Jerry caused me to lose
another wonderful dog. Peach was an absolute gem with little
kids. I and my boys still miss her. Sometimes I still look
to see if she came home when we get back from trips. Maybe
Peach would still have ran away... I don't know and never will....

~misty

From: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:16:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry, why non-physical praise?

Peach would be there sittin pretty had our pals not given you a bum
steer cause they're EMBARRASSED and AFRAID of losing their careers
and reputations.... Jerry.

Stick around, we're just startin to have FUN learning and
sharing...J;~)

"misty" <Momi...@webtv.net wrote in message news:

16990-3CAB1F8...@storefull-2293.public.lawson.webtv.net...

I don't now whether Peach is dead or alive. I do know she's
not here with us. I really can't blame anyone here for her
loss.

I'm the one who ignored your advice. I did it because of how
you write/wrote. I was unwilling to accept the idea that my
using a shock collar could have any bearing on Peach not
wanting to stay home.

Up until I started using it my main concern had been keeping
my dogs in their own yard.

Once I started using the e-fence... well, then my concern
became how to keep them from running off for days on end.

I lost valuable training time becoming embroiled in the
anti-shock debate and the "Jerry sux" tirades.

I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in the world now <g>
A Wits End Trained dog, one who is completely housetrained,
doesn't chew up stuff, stays in the yard, and doesn't bark all
the time.

IOW a great companion and friend.

Thanks Jerry!

=====================

misty" <Momi...@webtv.net> wrote in message

news:6946-3B6337A1-329@storefull-233.iap.bryant.webtv.net...

We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring. Two
dogs, two collars We now have one dog and no collars.

Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want to come
back in the yard and would run for days.

The last time, Peach didn't come back home.

I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how to train
my dog. She is now border trained. A few minutes each day
reinforces her desire to stay in the yard.

She no longer runs out into the road, I can stop her from
chasing cats and she no longer cringes when we walk around
the yard.

I can not say loud or long enough how much I hate the
e-fence and its collars. If you can't get a regular fence
then you need to train your dog.

I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep my dog in
our yard again.

The price was too high:-( ~misty

--------------------------------

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message

news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...
>
> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?

> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.

> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>
> So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
> Thank you for your contribution.
>-
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
>

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FE730764918australianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

> Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
> > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.

> Ack. You just gave him some moore ammunition.

> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST

Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I have, Solo
> joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.

Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

---------------

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day

Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
> is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
> shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.

Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
much to heart -- I'll try something different. Right now, he's
just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14

B*.@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<*.@bellsouth.net>:

>By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
>suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
>that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
>the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
>crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
>you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
>dealing with behavior problems.

Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.

Why did you blow it?

--Matt

From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????

Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
> run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT. so what does
> that say?

I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants. And
sometimes my parents pretended not to notice. In retrospect,
that's pretty cool.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

PERHAPS your mentally ill daddy or mammy will
come bye an give you another pretty cool spankin?:

"CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready Right Hand,

As it catches on, try using the stick and no ear pinch.

If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin,
say "No! Hold!"," lying frosty dahl.

"Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them more
sharply.

REPEAT, VARYING HOW HARD YOU HIT THE DOG.

Now you are ready to progress to what most people think of
as force-fetching: the ear pinch.

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so urgent that
resisting your will fades in importance.

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to
escaping the ear pinch even get a studded collar and pinch
the ear against that if the dog still does not open its mouth,
get out the shotshell.

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the
collar, even the buckle on the collar.

Persist! Eventually, the dog will give in

With your hand on the collar and ear, say, 'fetch.'

Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick.

Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy.
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell instead of your
thumb; Say 'fetch' while pressing the dummy against its lips
and pinching its ear," lying frosty dahl.

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

sinofabitch writes:
> >> What I have said- repeatedly - is that he took
> >> posts from two different people,

Of curse THAT'S a lie.

> >> took pieces of them out of context,

Of curse. QUOTED. You wanna see it in context?

> >> cobbled them together,

No. There was WON DIRECT QUOTE.

> >> then added his own words:

"Neatly," and "Smartly."

> >> and a fake signature.

"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.

> >> Which is exactly what he did.

INDEEDY. That's HOWE COME you deny it.

> >> The actual quote is misleading

That so?

> >> when taken out of context,

We'd been talkin abHOWET beatin the dog with a shoe...

> >> and Jerry's faked "quote"

The WON sinofabitch totally DENIES.

> >> is downright meaningless.

Only if you're a MENTAL CASE.

> > Here's Jerry's version
> > "I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
> > Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
> > Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
> > Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
> > Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
> > Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
> > Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.
> > Here's yours;
> > "I dropped the leash, threw my
> > right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
> > grabbed her opposite foot with my
> > left hand, rolled her on her side,
> > leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
> > nipped her ear.
> > --Sara Sionnach

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

See?

From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14

B*.@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<*.@bellsouth.n­­et>:

> By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
> suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
> that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
> the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
> crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
> you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
> dealing with behavior problems.

Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.

Why did you blow it?

--Matt

From: Mark Shaw (m...@bangnetcom.com)
Subject: Re: Fido-Shock
Date: 2002-04-10 14:12:18 PST
In article <gWLs8.203228$af7.101030@rwcrn­­­­sc53>,

"Coleman Brumley" <clbrum...@home.com> wrote:
>Has anyone had experience with this product (Fido-Shock).
>If so, what model number, voltage, etc.?

If you're talking about the pet-grade hotwire system, I have
one. It's to keep boarded dogs out of my flowers.

> I have a 1.5 year St Bernard who is scaling (not clearing --
> more like falling over) our 4 foot fence to visit with owners
> walking their dogs. I thought of raising the fence a foot or
> so, but don't think that'll solve the problem. I've tried
> watching her outside, and give a stern "NO" when she
> props on the fence for a peek over it. No avail.
> I've heard this product works after just a couple of tries.

I take it you're considering running the wire across the top
of the fence? I don't think I'd recommend that, although it
may be worth a try. Watch closely -- the one case where I saw
a hotwire used in this fashion caused the dog undue stress and
frustration, and he tried even harder to get over the fence.
So be prepared to take it down right away.

That was a Dane, though. With a Saint things might be
different.
--
Mark Shaw

Subject: Re: Video clip......."Nero" practicing
bark alert, while walking backwards
Date: 2004-06-05 18:53:50 PST

"micha el" <spam_yurs...@spamyourmamma.co­­­­m> wrote in message

news:yIydnZpPsIzg6l_d4p2dnA@comcast.com...

Anyway, contrary to your PR, this is what
it felt like to me when I got shocked by
Hope's collar.
It felt like a bomb going off in my
hand and forearm.

------------------------------­­­­--

"Tricia9999" <tricia9...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20021117101433.10365.00000067@mb-cg.aol.com...

> how effective are these electronic fences in
> keeping a dog on a property????

Some run through it. Others get shocked and become
too scared to go out in the yard anymore.

Just heard of a guy that has to rehome his dog,
because the dog got caught right in the path of
the shock and will now not go near his person,
won't go outside.

Just hides under a desk in the house.

**************

BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHHAAAA!!!

"I'd call the SHOCK fence effective and safe.
Humane is one of those hot words that people
can debate all day so I won't touch that one.
There are people who would call a regular chain
link fence inhumane," liea altshuller.

"I know this is a hard subject to bring up without
starting the whole cruelty thread again so I'll
state my opinion once and won't defend it further:
any method can be cruel for some dogs.

Even the slightest punishment was wrong for Cubbe at the
beginning, but we've come a long way since then.

She t­rusts us now as I mentioned in a recent post.

Point is, she's been rewarded for coming, but she's
never been punished, even in the mildest way, for
not coming.

Is it time for that?

What might I look for to tell?"

"Julia Altshuler" jaltshu...@comcast.net
wrote in message news:McYnb.45145$ao4.106231@attbi_s51...

After talking with the vet yesterday and watching
Cubbe all day today, I'm convinced that the shaking
is behavioral, not physical. Naturally I'll continue
keeping an eye on her, but when I add everything
up, I don't see symptoms of anything neurological--
and the vet agrees.
--Lia

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

> "Training is not confrontation"
> Lynn K.
> <except when it is>
> "So what? Whoever said that it's right to
> always not confront? We sure can try, but
> a dog who knows a command and growls when
> given it is certainly being confrontational".
> You can't simply walk away and pretend it
> didn't happen or leave it for later work in
> every situation."
> Lynn K.
> --------------------------------------

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.
---------------------------------

Paxil Princess psychoclown wrote:

"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
things is something you twisted out of
context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."

"Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them more
sharply.

REPEAT, VARYING HOW HARD YOU HIT THE DOG.

Now you are ready to progress to what most people think of
as force-fetching: the ear pinch.

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so urgent that
resisting your will fades in importance.

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to
escaping the ear pinch even get a studded collar and pinch
the ear against that if the dog still does not open its mouth,
get out the shotshell.

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the
collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist! Eventually, the
dog will give in

With your hand on the collar and ear, say, 'fetch.'

Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick.

Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy.
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell instead of your
thumb; Say 'fetch' while pressing the dummy against its lips
and pinching its ear," lying frosty dahl.

"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:

"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue:

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20

g*.@my-deja.com wrote:
> How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.

Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.

"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.

Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."

8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).

If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.

This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."

Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
<news:04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews>...

> >> Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
> >> quotes are true.
> >> In the posts below you take responsibility for
> >> making those calls.
> >> In your post above, you state you do not
> >> make those calls.
> >> Which one is it?

WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day
For Twenty Years

I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-
depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50
mg of Zoloft every day.

I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to
learn more, while happily sharing pertinent
information I have learned. But if I were ever
to post such sh*t, I would hope that every other
reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we
earn the right to participate in by observing
the easily understood rules and contributing
to in constructive ways."

Lynn K.

"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."

Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------

LYNN K. and LOIS E, and a BiLateral, BiPolar
conversation on Mental problems. LYNN AND LOIS
Almost 50 years on mental illness medications combined

> But I think what Lois was referring to
> was the fact that Darlene actually
> stated at some point that she was
> bipolar--and, IIRC, that meds did not work
> for her--so she was prone to major-league
> ups and downs and sudden
> enthusiasms..

"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."

Lynn K.

LYNN K. and the UNQUIET MIND

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/03

BoxHill wrote:
> I know I am totally off topic here, but have you read
> "The Unquiet Mind"?

Yeah. It's interesting, but kind of
watered down for the mass market, if
you know what I mean. There's really
quite a lot of good work out there and
decent research. Thank God.

Lynn K.
---------------------------------------

MOTHER AND CHILD REUNION
"KUCKOO!! CUCKOO!!!"
MOTHER (LOIS E.) 22 YEARS on TRICYCLICS
DAUGHTER BIPOLAR...

YOU DO THE MATH

"What's really terrific,
is now days you can say proudly,
'I take anti-depressives'"

From: Gary & lois Edwards (g...@bmi.net)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/02

BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS

"I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics
for about 22 years. Been there, done that, have
the t-shirt to prove it. What's really terrific,
is now days you can say proudly,

"I take anti-depressives". Back when I started
taking them it was seen as something shameful.
If you cut your leg off, and were lying there with
a bleeding stump, you'd never let the word
depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
"You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have
any pain meds.....you could become addicted."

The good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt who's
father locked her in her room back in the twenties
because she was simple. A shame that medication
probably would have helped her live a normal life.

No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's
personality, she has a way of making grandiose
plans when at the top of her manic cycle....as
does my daughter. I wasn't saying that anyone
with problems could be counted on to be
irresponsible."

Lois E.
-------------------------------------

DECENT PEOPLE DO NO POST HERE abHOWETS:

Here's professor dermer pryor:

From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST

And how do we know this aspect of his
advice is right?

Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.

(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
ill-mannered, or just plain ill.­),

--Marshall

Here's professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM research
at UofWI marshall "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM "NO!"
into ITS face for five seconds and lock IT in a
box for ten minutes contemplation" dermer:

"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

******IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?*******

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.

BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!

That's INSANE. Ain't it.

Here's professor dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:

"We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People Should
Come To Their Senses And Support Your Valuable Work.
God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall Dermer,
Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI.

From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<*.@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM

Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,

I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.

You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent­,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts ­to
alert the world to animal abuse.

We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.

Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?

In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.

--Marshall Dermer

"Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message

news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?

> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.

> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

BWWWAWHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

>> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
>> will often make the dog either aggressive
>> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
>> to do.
>
> And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
> No matter what Jerry Howe states.
>
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> doubt, please provide a quote (an
> original quote, not from one of Jerry
> Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> shows a regular poster promoting or
> using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

> What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
> which you have read so many. While you're going
> through them, point out those which recommend
> shocking, and pinching, and beating. Thank you.
> --
> -Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!
BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!.


Montana Wildhack
2005-12-23 11:25:11 EST
On 2005-12-23 05:24:39 -0500, "nic" <nickie_anne@shaw.ca> said:

> we recently adopted a dog that is 18 months old. while the shelter had her
> in her foster home she did not have any problems, she never did anything in
> the house. now she just randomly pees on my carpet, she makes no indication
> she wants to go out, and sometimes she does this like 5 minutes after i have
> walked her. i dont know what to do with her. i want to be able to let her
> roam the house but I cant while she is doing this. any ideas? please help.
> please email me at nickie_anne@shaw.ca
> thank you very much,
> Nicole

Find out if the dog has a UTI (urinary tract infection)

Buy some enzyme cleaner that will remove any trace of dog pee scent

Don't let her roam the house until you have found out if she's sick or
you have retrained her.

Thanks for adopting this dog.

A little time & patience should sort everything out, but absolutely
check for a UTI.


T*@Mail.Com
2005-12-23 13:16:54 EST
HOWEDY buggy sky,

montana wildhack wrote:
> On 2005-12-23 05:24:39 -0500, "nic" <nickie_anne@shaw.ca> said:
>
> > we recently adopted a dog that is 18 months old. while the shelter had her
> > in her foster home she did not have any problems, she never did anything in
> > the house. now she just randomly pees on my carpet, she makes no indication
> > she wants to go out, and sometimes she does this like 5 minutes after i have
> > walked her. i dont know what to do with her. i want to be able to let her
> > roam the house but I cant while she is doing this. any ideas? please help.
> > please email me at nickie_anne@shaw.ca
> > thank you very much,
> > Nicole
>
> Find out if the dog has a UTI (urinary tract infection)

You mean on accHOWENT of if the dog AIN'T SICK you got NO
METHOD to CURE HOWEsbreaking problems, buggy sky?

> Buy some enzyme cleaner that will remove any trace of dog pee scent

That's IRRELVENT, buggy sky. Dogs DO NOT mark over their own spots.

> Don't let her roam the house until you have found out if she's sick

The dog PROBABLY AIN'T SICK, buggy sky.

> or you have retrained her.

They can DO THAT in WON DAY, buggy sky.

Should they take the dog to the vet FIRST?

> Thanks for adopting this dog.

BWEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHHAAAAAA!!!

> A little time & patience

You mean, till HEEL freezes over, buggy sky?

> should sort everything out,

You think TIME will TRAIN the dog, buggy sky?

> but absolutely check for a UTI.

You mean, TOMMOROW if the dog is STILL havin
HOWEsbreakin problems after STUFYIN their own
FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual,
don't you, buggy sky.

HOWEDY tara o. aka tee,

Tee wrote:
> "kat" <kat873905@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:1129952264.802980.165430@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> > We don't have any problems with the housetraining.

Well, that's more than tara o. aka tee can say
abHOWET her own fear aggressive hyperactive dogs.

> Reading all the posts in this thread I think your pup
> probably has a learned behavior already. Puppymill
> pups often have this same problem because they were
> brought up in cages where they were allowed to eliminate.

That's ABSURD.

> They got used to it because they had no choice.

They GET OVER IT soon as they're let HOWET of the box.

> As far as he's concerned peeing in the crate is normal.

Till they AIN'T LOCKED IN A BOX nomore.

> I think his confinement anxiety may also be related.

Naaaah?

> A crate may, to him, be too reminiscent of the shelter.

No. Separation / crate anXXXIHOWESNESS is CAUSED by MISHANDLING.

> Some dogs & pups go through shelter shock, some don't,

That's sheer idiocy.

> some take a long time to get over it.

THAT'S INSANE.

> Since you know he was crated at the shelter and he
> exhibits anxiety when in the crate, which may or may
> not be related to the elimination problem,

HE ONLY SHITS AND PISSES WHEN HE'S LOCKED IN THE BOX.

> you may be better served by replacing the crate.

BWEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!

> If you're using a wire crate try using a plastic one instead.

THAT'S INSANE.

> Try moving the crate to another area of the house he's
> comfortable in and consider leaving a television on for
> him for background noise.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHHAAAA!!!

> You might also want to consider abandoning the crate
> altogether for a little while and using an alternative
> confinement method like a baby gate in your bathroom or
> laundry room.

FOR WHAAAAAT??? The dog IS HOWEsbroken.

> --
> Tara

Wed, Oct 26 2005 8:08 am
Subject: Re: Max always has gas

HOWEDY tara o. aka tee,

Tee wrote:
> "buzzsaw" <t...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:xqydnY840rt0TsPeRVn-pg@comcast.com...

> > Anywho - he doesnt have to "go" when he does this
> > as I offer - and many times it is after a bowel
> > movement before a meal. Anything to be concerned
> > about ?

> Nope.

That's EZ for you to say you miserable lying
dog and child abusing murdering mental case.

> Fancy toots when she's anxious or excited.

Perhaps THAT'S HOWE COME they call it "GAStric UPSET".

> If she thinks she's going to get some of our dinner
> she'll sit and poot-poot-pooooooooot looking completely
> innocent the whole time.

"An expected reward not received is experienced
as a punishment and can produce extensive and
persistent aggression (Azrin et al, 1966)."

> She also does this when I tell her we're going for
> a walk but take a minute to get the leash.

"An expected reward not received is experienced
as a punishment and can produce extensive and
persistent aggression (Azrin et al, 1966)."

> She'll be pooting away in the foyer. I tend to
> think of gas as the silent-but-deadly kind which
> is a Boxer problem but this is just butt-noise.

No, it's an ABUSER problem, tara o. aka tee.

> --
> Tara

From: "Tara O." <tara29...@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 15:56:56 -0400
Subject: Boxer Burgers for Dinner Again....

After that oh so long post from last week on Summer's
wonderful progress on being left free to roam the house
all day while I'm at work, the stink-bomber has gone and
contradicted me.

Two days ago I came home to a shredded shoe and lovely
claw digs in my very expensive cherry tables (she was
using them as launching pads from what I can ascertain).

Yesterday, I came home to a plant torn apart, a cup on
the floor (that was sitting next to the sink), another
shoe torn up, and the phone book in a not-so-readable
condition.

Today I went home for lunch and the living room & kitchen
were trashed. She took books off my desk and shredded them
(one of them being The Count of Monte Cristo...not as old
an edition as Matt's). She snatched the bills to be paid
out of my bill holder and shredded them too. She managed
to get the coat closet door open (must not have caught when
I pushed it shut this morning) and proceeded to tear up yet
another shoe, 2 of Amie's new barbie dolls, a hair clip, and
a water gun (all were in a little play bag Amie had put in there).

She is crated at the moment while I'm back at work. Summer
has NEVER chewed on anything but her bones and an occasional
small toy from Amie's room.

She's never bothered our shoes, stolen things from the counters
or been destructive in any other way towards our belongings....
except for the plants when she was young and scared of being alone.

Now why would a pup who has been a perfect angel for her 7
months with us, suddenly become destructive? Nothing has
changed. My hours are the same. I go home everyday for an
hour at lunch and let her out & play with her.

Her food is the same, she still has all
her toys, bones, etc. I just don't get it.

I spoke with her at length about this before coming back
to work and she put me in my place quite efficiently. She
looked at me, farted the most gawd-awful smelling thing
ever to haunt mankind, then she walked into the next room
and ignored my existence.

I know she's a pup but my other puppies have always been
destructive first and worked out of it. They didn't go
for 7 months of being non-destructive, well-behaved angel's
to demons from dogdom. Any ideas?

Tara O.
From: IHateToSayItButITOLDYO...@Inbox.Com
Date: 18 Oct 2005 20:34:35 -0700

From: "Tara O." <tara29...@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 23:43:38 -0500
Subject: Re: sad - "Really Stupid Is (ninnyboy)


"Rocky" <m...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9153D88E56B04australianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

> He said that I caused Rocky's idiopathic epilepsy through
> abusive training. That's a lie. And libel. And impossible.

This sounds very similar to me causing Summer's aggression, her
separation anxiety, and her people fear by crate training her.
--
Tara O.

From: "Tara O." <tara29...@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 08:55:53 -0500
Subject: Update

I wanted to thank all of you again for your input.
This boy's name was Ty, short for Tyson by the way.

I sent him to the bridge yesterday.

I wasn't going to although I also wasn't sure I would
ever adopt him out but I wanted to give him the chance
and I did NOT want to send another dog to the bridge.

Two days ago when I came home from work, my house was
destroyed, there were 18 piles of poop, the countertop
contents were on the floor and Ty was standing there
eating that day's dinner.

The mess, while not pleasant to clean up wasn't a problem
but I did learn that he could escape the wire crate I had
him in by raising enough hell in it.

That was the first day he'd been placed between two other
dogs and not kept in my office space. Fancy was visibly
shaken and Pebbles (Min. Dach.) was huddled in the far back
corner of her crate which was moved about 3' from where it
had been.

I think he had intimidated my dogs but luckily they were
crated. This made me wonder more about my decision to keep
him in my home. Had any or all of my pets not been crated,
I may have come home to more than a cleaning problem.

Still though, I had his HW treatment scheduled for yesterday
afternoon and I just couldn't bring myself to change the reason
for the appointment.

When I went home yesterday at noon to let the dogs out I
had a big problem. Ty was still crated (I put him back in
the plastic crate) luckily.

I put my 3 plus my deaf foster out back then took Ty out
front. We came back in and went to the kitchen so he could
get some water. He saw the other 4 dogs outback although
they didn't see him. He was fine and relaxed then started
lapping up water.

Suddenly and with no provocation, he bolted towards the
french doors and hit them so hard that he broke them open.
He was almost off the deck before I regained my footing
enough to stop him. The only reason I was able to stop
him was due to my never letting go of his leash but he
managed to catch me totally by surprise and I'm the one
who knew better than to trust his actions.

I was able to get him back in and pull the door back
before the deafie came lunging from the other side.
I let my guard down for just a few seconds and that's
what happened. Had I not had his leash still in hand,
he would've gotten to my dogs for sure.

I still have no idea what made him do that because he
wasn't watching them and they weren't watching him so
there was no provocation except their mere existence.

We went to the vet and I told them that I was sending
him to the bridge. While we waited outside (he couldn't
be trusted inside due to other dogs in the waiting room)
he was so wonderful and loving.

He sat next to me and we just played for a bit. Twice I
got in the car with him to leave because he was just so
beautiful and wonderful with me and the other people that
he met that I had a really hard time doing what I did.

At least he went down in my arms while I talked to him
rather than going alone in a shelter. Things like this
are enough to make a person want to quit. (Quit shelter/
rescue/foster care.)
--
Tara O.


From: "Tara O." <tara29...@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 00:14:04 -0400
Subject: Re: Tara, what's happening with Summer?

Thanks for thinking about us Marie and Paulette.
Summer went to the bridge this evening unfortunately.

Her sudden aggression grew more consistent and also
turned on one adult although no injuries were sustained.
I had made an appointment for Thursday to have a thyroid
panel drawn and sent off to see if her aggression could've
been attributable to low thyroid levels. I'd spoken with
professional behaviorists, two vets, and dozens of Boxer
breeders, trainers & owners. No one thought that thyroid
was the cause considering that she had no other symptoms.

I found that alot of Boxer owners have dogs with thyroid
problems and who are on medication. The ones that became
aggressive did not get better with medication unfortunately.

Also, there are no studies that conclusively show that
aggression is definitely related to thyroid disorders.
All her other bloodwork came back normal so it seemed
to be a temperament problem.

Wednesday night, Amie knelt down to kiss Summer goodnight,
as always, and Summer growled at her. She also tried to
go after my brother-in-law on Monday. I made the extremely
tough decision to send her to the bridge without waiting to
test for thyroid. If she could growl at Amie then I no longer
had faith that this was just a fluke. I've also come to find
out that quite a few Boxers have suddenly turned aggressive
between the ages of 12-24 months of age.

Some of the owners of these dogs had private lifestyles
that allowed them to manage the dog's behavior since
visitors are infrequent. In those cases, behaviorists,
rofessional trainers, and medication have been tried but
have not worked. The other owners whose dogs turned were
like me in that there were children around and frequent
visitors in the home. They also made the same choice I did.

I'm sure Jerry will go to town with this news. I've been
grappling with this decision since she turned on those 2
children a few weekends ago. I had hopes that something
would prove to be medically wrong with her, something that
when treated, would make this behavior disappear. When she
turned on my brother-in-law Monday night I began to lose what
little hope I had left. When she growled at Amie two nights
ago I made the decision to put her down vs. taking chances
with the lives and safety of children.

I took Summer to work with me today so that we could spend the
time together. I took her to the vet, feeding her cheddar cubes
while we waited. We played and I laughed and tried very hard not
to show any anxiety or worry because I wanted her to be happy.
Just before it was time for the injection, I fed her a Milky Way
bar because she's always been a chocoholic. When the time came,
I held her in my arms and sang 'you are my sunshine' to her while
stroking her head.

I've never loved any dog half as much as I loved Summer. She
came in second only to Amie in my heart. This was honestly the
absolute hardest thing I've ever done and wish it on no one.
Hopefully Summer has the wings and halo I know she deserves.

--
Tara O.


From: "Tara O." <tara29...@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 23:33:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Separation Anxiety

Move the crate to your bedroom but not when she's howling
so she won't think its a reward for that behavior. She
needs to feel safe and secure and she obviously doesn't any
longer in the kitchen. Letting her sleep in your room should
calm her because she'll be able to hear and smell you, hopefully
taking a sense of security and comfort from that. Give it a few
weeks then try putting her back in the kitchen if you really don't
want her in your room. But for the time being, its essential for
your dog's mental health, as well as physical health, that she get
the sleep and peace she desperately needs. I'm sure it will also
send you back to sleeping through the night as well, a much added
bonus.

--
Tara O.


From: "Tara O." <nos...@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 00:28:10 -0500
Subject: Re: SA Question

"Melanie L Chang" <mlch...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:b68i2v$f0tn$2@netnews.upenn.edu...

> I believe that there's a lot of research into the hereditary
> basis of generalized anxiety. There's a colony of anxious dogs,
> I think at Cornell. It's a trait that can be selected for quite
> effectively. Since SA often goes hand-in-hand with other anxiety
> problems in dogs, I'd say that yes, SA can have a genetic component.
> This would explain why lifestyle changes and traumas can push
> some dogs over the edge, but others can just kind of cope with
> them.

"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It A
Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know
Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If He Thought Solo
Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.

Makes sense especially since it also effects puppies whose
only change has been going from breeder to new home. Summer
had it from the time I got her at 12 weeks, I know some puppy
rescues who have it, and we get alot of emails from owners who
can't deal with their dogs anymore due to SA and they've had
them since puppyhood.

While some of the problem may be due to lack of training or
misuse of the term SA being applied to general destructo-dog
lifestage, I do think there's an increase in the real medical
problem. The 15mo I have here now has been dumped twice for SA.

He just mentally freaks and can get out of both plastic and wire
crates without regard for harm to himself. He goes into panic
mode and can't stop. He also has some OCD behaviors.

I have him on Clomicalm to assist while we undergo behavior
modification. Its helping some but not a whole lot. An 8yo
we have has terrible SA and has torn nails & bloodied his gums
while eating through a crate.

When he's loose he destroys anything he can and urinates and
poops everywhere. He's also on Clomicalm at the moment and
its worked wonders for him. His first owner stuck him outside
at the age of 2 because they couldn't deal with the SA.

He dumped at age 7, adopted from the shelter and returned 2
weeks later for the same problem.

I just hate to see a dog suffering that way and am thinking
that its becoming more frequent. Its also become a big cause
for owner surrenders.
--
Tara


From: "Tara O." <tara29...@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 14:35:39 -0400
Subject: Re: Can't leave puppy!!

Really now. I trained Summer, on my own, without medication
even though it was available, with patience, hard work, and
time. 6.5 months to be exact.

I started her out with 10 minutes of being alone until 3
consecutive days of returning to a calm, healthy puppy &
clean house were achieved. Then I'd increase the time away
to 15-20 minutes. I repeated this for months until she was
able to successfully, and happily, remain out of her crate
and out of danger for the time that I was at work.

I'd call that training. I'd call those results.

Just a note to the people who are reading this. I have
had JH kill-filed for a long time and I do not normally
respond to his posts. I can imagine he's said horrible
things about me and made absurd accusations as well.

Some recent posts have been slipping through my filter and
I've seen responses to Jerry's comments to my posts. I
realize its futile in that he won't admit to being wrong,
nor will he stop being malicious.

However, I do not want the OP to think that he's right
or that I'm speaking on this issue without experience.

My pup may always have issues with separation anxiety
but the severity of the issues and behavior related to
this disorder is significantly less than it used to be.

Summer threw herself into windows and doors, eliminated
all over the place, tore up whatever was in the vicinity,
and would be panting, panicing and shaking something fierce
by the time I'd return. Now the only problem we have when
I leave is that she's in her terrible twos puppy stage and
is just naturally hornery, not at all attributable to SA.
--
Tara O.
Amie & Summer:


From: "Tara O." <tara29...@yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 21:18:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Summer Problems

"Melanie L Chang" <mlch...@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:9qcmlj$90o$1@netnews.upenn.edu...


> Tara, I don't know that there's a whole lot anyone here
> can tell you -- at least, there isn't much I can tell you,
> as I've only the one case study to fall back on (Solo) and
> haven't seen Summer in person. There are others here more
> qualified to help you.
>
> That said:
> I strongly urge you not to fall back on medication without
> the supervision of a knowledgeable behaviorist. It shouldn't
> be prescribed to begin with without a complete evaluation
> looking at both behavioral and clinical parameters. In
> addition, it's largely useless without concomittant behavioral
> modification training.
>
> A behaviorist is not someone you need to go to week after week.
> The way my experience has gone is that we had one long initial
> evaluation with a detailed history taken, observation through
> two-way mirrors in a few different situations, observation of
> how I handled the dog, etc. and a clinical evaluation. We were
> prescribed a program including medication and a VERY detailed
> behavior mod protocol. We had a follow-up appointment about a
> month and a half later where we adjusted a few things.
>
> We haven't had an official appointment since then -- we
> communicate through phone calls and occasionally our
> behaviorist has seen us in my office, etc. more or less
> as a personal favor. Most behavior patients get evaluated
> in one or two (long) appointments and the rest is consults
> by phone, etc. The appointments are not cheap, but they
> also aren't an ongoing expense and phone consults are
> supposed to be free.
>
> If you want to go to a behaviorist you might be looking at
> a $200 or so initial expense (not including meds, if prescribed,
> but many psychopharm remedies are quite cheap, including Elavil)
> and probably not much more expense for the next several months,
> until you schedule a follow-up if needed. It's not a small amount
> of money, but it's not an impossible fee, either, and if you can
> find a good behaviorist, it could be well worth it.
>
> If you can't find a good behaviorist in your area, I believe
> that a number of well-respected clinicians will consult by phone.
> I don't know what's wrong with Summer, I don't know if it's
> analogous to what's wrong with Solo, and I don't know if
> anything that helped us will help you. But I found the
> following literature very helpful:
>
> _The Culture Clash_ by Jean Donaldson
> _Dogs are from Neptune_ by Jean Donaldson
> _The Cautious Canine_ by Patricia McConnell
> _How to be the Leader of the Pack_ by Patricia McConnell
> _Calming Signals_ by Turid Rugaas
> _Don't Shoot the Dog_ by Karen Pryor
> _Clinical Behavioral Medicine for Small Animals_ by Karen Overall
> (Nicholas Dodman has a couple of books out that address
> behavioral issues as well, but I'm not a big fan of his.
> However, you might like what he has to say, so it's worth
> taking a look.)
> Good luck.

Thanks Melanie. I'm going to get a few of those books if I can.
So far, the Boxer breeders and trainers I've talked with aren't
optimistic at all and are pretty much trying to prepare more the
real possibility of having to send Summer to the bridge.

I can't afford a cat-scan or even a behaviorist til sometime
after Christmas. Due to problems I'd rather not get into, the
money situation around here is in the red for the foreseeable
future.

I haven't had any success with socializing her to overcome her
fear of people so I know that I'm way out of my league with this
new aggression issue. For all that Jerry would like to blame
this on her being crated, that's not the cause.

Summer hasn't been crated much at all over the last month or so.
She no longer spends her days in the crate and she's not spent
a night in the crate since last Christmas when she was boarded
at the vet. She only goes to her crate when she wants to be
alone or when she's frightened. Therefore I think its more of
a safe haven than an anxiety builder.

I was considering the possibility of meds, as you may recall,
as a means of keeping her calm in situations where she will
panic. Thereby hopefully she could learn that there's nothing
to fear after a while of being calm and being near people.

I was hoping that there was a medication out there that could
help to keep her calm until I could afford a behaviorist and
professional trainer with experience in aggression. So far,
I haven't heard anything hopeful in regards to this coming
from other trainers who've been there and done that.

Since posting this problem on a few email lists, I've
received a large number of responses from people who've
had similar problems, some who've spent a small fortune
on trying to find the cause and train the behavior away,
all to no avail.

I'm going to make an appointment for her to see the vet
again this week. There's likely nothing he can tell me
but I want her to have some bloodwork done, some tests,
something that might indicate a physical cause. I've
also joined a list for aggression in animals that has
more than 100 professional aggression trainers and
behaviorists, as well as vets, on board who offer advice
and assistance.

Maybe I'll find out something that can give me hope.
Summer has been acting like her normal self on and off
today. The off-times, she was withdrawn, not even
wanting to play with the other dogs.

Tumors, from what I've come to understand, are prevalent
in Boxers. It also seems that its not so abnormal for a
perfectly healthy, happy, dog to turn aggressive after a
year or more of age. This pup that I have now, isn't the
same pup I had just a few short months ago, and certainly
not the same pup I had a year ago.

She still has the fear problem, but she no longer
wishes for human interaction like she used to.
--
Tara O.
Amie & Summer:

Oh, hey? Charlie?

Just checked HOWET melanie's website. Here's
sumthin to make anybody in their right mind, SICK:

"On a related note, I volunteer for the Delaware
Valley Pomeranian Club breed rescue program.

Breed rescue is a good choice for someone who
wants a dog, knows exactly the type of dog s/he
wants, and would like to adopt a dog who needs
a home.

Click here for information on DVPC rescue. If
you have questions, you can email me by hitting t
he email cue at the bottom of the page.

I am quite "into" dogs, dog rescue, and responsible
dog ownership. Soon my dog (who does not have
her own page) and I will be involved in dog activities
like obedience and agility.

For information on animal rescue (including dogs),
try Kyler Laird's rescue pages. For information on
just about anything you can do with dogs, go to the
Dog-Play website."

Yeah. Her links take us to cindy sadist mooreon's
viciHOWES k-9 web and Master Of Deception
blankman's crapola.

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

Sez it all, eh Charlie? Three years of workin
UNSUCCESSFULLY with Solo and the UofPA
behavior clinic, and melanie is a expert on SAVIN
DOGS from the needley by gettin them new
HOWESES.

But still, GO FOR IT, Charlie. She's lookin good,
and you know she's got PLENTY of dough... she'll
treat you RIGHT, while she's breakin your heart.

Practice them anchoring and collapsing techniques
while you're dealin with her, and you'll be ALLRIGHT!

Just ask The Puppy Wizard if you need any extra free
heelp... BWWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!! GO FOR IT!

The Puppy Wizard. <} : ~ ) >

From: "Tara O." <tara29...@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 20:28:55 -0400
Local: Fri, Sep 7 2001 8:28 pm
Subject: Re: Escape artist Dog

Jerry, couldn't you offer her sincere advice rather than
using her post a your own personal attack referendum? She
doesn't know any of us here so 99% of your post was lost on
her. You put everybody else down, people who DO offer advice,
yet you offer very little yourself. You wonder why so many
people have you killfiled and call you a troll. Its behavior
like this, personal attacks on other ng members, with no advice
to the actual poster.

The rest of us provide FREE, on the spot, advice. You offer
a link to a website where someone has to place an order for
your manual then wait for it to be sent to them. If your
manual is free, then why not just divulge your expertise on
the ng when responding to posts?
--
Tara O.
Amie & Summer:

From: "Tara O." <tara29...@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 23:58:15 -0400
Local: Wed, Jul 11 2001 11:58 pm
Subject: Re: Dog training "tips".

I wasn't following the previous thread so I don't know what
was said. However, after reading your comment, I'd like to
urge you not to give up. Handing out your own advice is pretty
much all you can do because the advice you're giving is based on
the methods you've used. If people ask you for advice and you
refuse to give it, you'd be doing a disservice to their pets IMO.

Believe it or not, I've had quite a few people comment on how
obedient Summer is and ask how I did it. She's not good enough
to compete for an obedience title by any means but in general,
I think these people are just referring to her manners.

Summer was born with good manners, and a more-than-healthy
does of people-fear. That is why she is so well-behaved in
public. I tell people that I really can't take the credit
for that but I do tell them that we went through obedience
classes. I give them the name of the club, the price, and
the person to contact. I make it sound like the end-all-be-
all of dog training.

We all know its not, the training takes place at home. However,
getting these people to consider going to obedience classes,
even under semi-false pretenses doesn't bother me a bit. Once
they get there they'll learn more about dog behavior and how
big their role is in the way their pet behaves and responds.

They've already spent the money so its unlikely they'll back
out of class. The way I see it is that even if they never do
an ounce of training at home, the classes will at least have
given the owners more insight into why their dogs do the things
they do and will make them aware that its not the dog's fault.

I went way off on a tangent there but I wanted to explain why
when I give advice, I always promote obedience classes. I even
give them more credit than they might deserve by implying that
their dogs will become obedient after the course.

I still dish out my own particular training techniques/corrections
such as using a tin can with pennies inside to correct a bad
behavior, or suggesting the use of a crate to a new puppy owner, etc.

If people ask, I'll give. Hell, I even dish out my $.02 when
its *not* asked for ;-)
--
Tara O.
Amie & Summer:

From: "Tara O." <tara29...@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 09:24:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Cubbe and crate

"Leah" <dfrntdr...@aol.comMURK-OFF> wrote in message
news:20010905091344.23405.00000017@mb-ft.aol.com...

> I am SO glad I had Madigan crate-trained... otherwise I'd
> be starting it from scratch right now. She was alone for
> 2 hours last night. Up until recently, she wouldn't do
> anything except maybe look for paper to shred, especially
> only being alone such a short period of time. However,
> when hubby got home, he found CDs and coasters torn to bits
> all over the house. She's starting to go for my shoes, too,
> which I've been able to leave out up until now.
> From now on, until she's over this new destructo-phase, she's
> going to be crated whenever we leave the house. My instructor
> said that the 11-month teething period is much worse than the
> 6-month. I didn't believe her. :}

I send you whatever leftover patience I have then. When did
I post about Summer's complete turnaround from trustworthy
angel to demonic shredder?

She left the paper and went to trashcan shopping and counter
cruising. A few pair of shoes became casualties of her
plundering, as well as a few books, toys, a plant, the bag of
M&Ms, a bag of Friendship Bread Starter, and sooooo many others.

That was around the 10mo period I think. She's no more
trustworthy now than she was then so prepare yourself for
a long wait ;)
--
Tara O. (In some cultures what I do would be
considered normal.) Summer & Ami

From: "Tara O." <tara29...@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 16:53:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Boxer Burgers for Dinner Again....

"Stacy Rally" <stacyra...@yahoo.com> wrote in
message news:9ejpmq$39atm$1@ID-83899.news.dfncis.de...

> I don't have any advice to add, since my husband
> still has to call me everyday with the "damage
> report", so I am obviously in no place to give
> advice on this subject. I just wanted to
> comment that I think it is funny that you refer
> to "Boxer Burgers". I am always threatening to
> have "Puppy Burgers" for dinner, and my friends
> think that it is sick. They just don't get the
> humour. Of course, we never do have puppy burgers,
> but I'm betting that if we do, my nice, big,
> muscular pit bull will make a good dinner! At
> least she'd offset some of the damage she's done
> by being dinner! =)

LOL, well anyone who knows me knows that I'd never
intentionally hurt an animal, especially Summer.
However, I often threaten to especially to her. I
tell her that I'm gonna sell her to a vacuum
cleaner salesman cuz she HATES vacuum cleaners,
running or not. She huffs at me and walks away
;-)

You had the two pups who were bound and determined
to escape wherever you enclosed them right? How's
that going?

Tara O.

From: "Tara O." <tara29...@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 15:43:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Dog house for boxer puppy?

"Susan Thomas" <tho...@ils.unc.edu> wrote in message
news:9kcbcp$3o5$1@news2.isis.unc.edu...

> Any recommendations for a dog house for a boxer puppy?
> We are keeping her outside. I have looked at DogLoo II
> and Indigo doghouses. I know they are too large right
> now but I wanted to get one that the dog would be able
> to use when grown.
> Any comments/recommendations?

Susan, Boxers don't like temperature changes so they don't
make good outside dogs. I have a Boxer and while she may
be a little more extreme than others (don't know since I
haven't asked), she won't stay outside in the summer for
more than the length of time it takes to sniff out a spot
and go. Same thing in the winter. The only time she enjoys
being outside is when the temp is between 65-75 degrees.

Boxers make absolutely *wonderful* housepets. They're happy,
loving, and full of laughs. They can be mischievous, just as
any puppy can, but can be trained the same as any puppy.

I live in a townhouse with my daughter and Summer who just
turned a year old. She's not too big for the house, nor is
she destructive towards anything but paper and sometimes Amie's
toys, when she's not supervised.

She's crate trained and sleeps in her crate while I'm at work.
At night, she sleeps in my bedroom with me. She's also fully
housebroken and has been since a few weeks after I got her.

I'd recommend that you join one of the Boxer mailing lists on
Yahoo. You can learn so much about the breed as well as hear
other Boxer owner's stories of their dog's antics. I don't
think you'll find one person on any of the lists who keep their
babies outside all the time. Many breeders have heated and
cooled kennels where the show dogs stay but the regular ol pet
owners keep their dogs in the house.

While I realize the choice is yours to make, I really think
you'd be missing out on a wonderful companion who'll make you
laugh and giggle everyday.
--
Tara O.

From: "Tara O." <tara29...@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 22:30:14 -0400
Subject: Separation Anxiety - Long

Just an update and maybe a relief-post for those
who have pups with separation anxiety. As most of
you know, I got Summer when she was 3 months old,
straight from her outside kennel with sire, dam, 1
sis & 2 brothers. The breeder had not done any
socialization with the pups and the pups had
never, to my knowledge, gone inside the house.

I put her in my car, drove 3 hours home with her
(with a bump on her head from accidentally running
into a fence post while playing). She was very
withdrawn and scared but Amie & I did everything
we could to love on her, make her feel welcome and
safe and play...play...play with her. She went to
the vet for her last puppy shots, this scared
her...new people, noises, smells, etc.

We got home, she began reacting violently to one
of her vaccinations and we rushed her back to the
vet for yet another shot. A few days later she
had surgery to remove the lump on her head as it
was gathering fluid & tissue and applying pressure
to her skull. Again, a scary experience for a pup
unused to people and indoors.

I firmly believe all of this contributed to her
separation anxiety. If left alone, she would
panic, relieve herself, body slam doors and
windows and shred anything she could get her mouth
or paws on. If I were standing just outside the
front door, say speaking to the mailman, she would
bodyslam the door, howl and poop on the carpet, in
a matter of only minutes.

I have been crating Summer during the days while
I'm at work for her safety as well as to protect
an apartment where any property damage is grounds
for eviction. She took to her crate well, never
fussed about it and uses it even when we're home.

When she was about 6-7 months old and had time to
see that we always came back, I began leaving her
out for 10 minute spaces of time each evening
until I came home 3 evenings straight to no mess
and a safe, happy-to-see-mommy puppy.

I then increased the time away to roughly 20
minutes, repeating the same 3-day rule. Each time
I worked her up going almost double the time.

I am happy to report that after 3 months of
working on this, Summer doing the all of the
work, today marks the 3rd day in a row that
Summer was left out of her crate for the entire
workday. She doesn't leave the window according
to my neighbors. Each time I pull up, she's on
the couch, with her face pressed to the window
and won't get down til she hears my key in the
door.

We then have 15 minutes of 'good girl', rolling
on the floor, tummy-rubs, etc. before she goes
outside to do her thing.

I am sooooooooo proud of my little girl. While I
only had to provide the patience, she had to do
all the hard work and deal with her fear. She did
it !!!!

I know this is very long and I apologize but I
thought for anyone who be having similar problems,
they could see that there can be a light at the
end of the tunnel and I thought details would
help.
--
Tara O.

From: "Tara O." <tara29...@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:27:44 -0400
Subject: Re: Advice to Newbies

"Leah" <dfrntdr...@aol.comMURK-OFF> wrote in message
news:20010822180707.15102.00002262@mb-fv.aol.com...

> Keep believing Jerry Howe. :} She is neither out of control,
> a lunger, or a biter. She's made a lot of progress on the
> leash now that I'm using a clicker and a GL. Yes, she did
> bite me once, and that was entirely my fault. This last time
> I only posted because it was a funny story. She didn't *bite*
> me. She was chewing on her bone, and I had my finger in the way.
> She was more upset about it than I was.

Leah, don't bother, no amount of reiteration will work.
According to Jerry, I'm not qualified to give an opinion
on anything since Summer *was* a problem pup but the fact
that she no longer suffers from SA doesn't count for anything,
nor the fact that I trained her out of it on my own and without
meds. Kinda reminds me of the tabloid people. You know, how
no matter what a person does that's good, they always manage
to publish something bad that happened 10 years ago just because
its more sensational than showing and telling the truth.
--
Tara O.
Amie & Summer:

From: "Tara O." <tara29...@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 22:13:39 -0400
Subject: Summer Problems

I believe I now have a pup that's become fear-aggressive,
possibly just flat-out aggressive. If you all remember
my posting the 'mentally slow' account a week or so ago,
I related my worry over her having become withdrawn.

This is getting worse.

I wish that were the only problem at the moment but
unfortunately its not.

Yesterday we were at DH's house and one of Amie's friends
came over. This little 6yo boy has been coming over for
as long as Summer has been visiting there. IOW, Summer
has seen him and even played with him for about 6 months
now, on a regular basis. After this boy (Sully....not
Sully the dog) was in the house, he and Amie were in the
hallway getting ready to enter her room.

All the sudden, Summer lunged and snapped at him, thank
GOD she didn't actually get hold of him. I was standing
right there and saw the whole thing. Sully wasn't even
looking at her, let alone doing anything to provoke such
an attack. Summer was scolded and crated and Sully soothed,
although I give the boy credit for giving me a weak smile
and shrugging saying 'I wasn't scared.'

Today Summer was in the backyard with the other 3 dogs
when the neighbor out back came outside to do yardwork.

She commenced to lunging, snapping, growling, and barking
at the fence, trying to get to him. I immediately brought
her in the house after giving her a firm 'NO' then locking
her in the crate for a time-out.

About 15 minutes later, I let her out and
she was just walking around the house.

Amie's best friend, a little girl named Cadie, knocked
at the door to play and Summer ran to the door, took
one look at her, then lunged and snapped at her, luckily
there was glass in place!

She was crated again for close to 4 hours because Cadie
was there, then Sully came as well, plus the guy out back
was still doing yardwork.

As you all know, Summer has never been aggressive except
for the time that kid was taunting the dogs from outside
the fence. Given her gradual withdrawal from me and Amie,
and now this aggressive behavior, I'm very worried.

The vet had said she was physically fit so I don't think
there's anything causing this other than a mental/behavioral
problem although that seems like too light a word to describe
what's going on.

Due to events in the last 3 days, I'm broke, and can't
afford a behaviorist for the next few months at least.
I'm going to request medication for her and hopefully
that will help. If this new aggression isn't fear or
anxiety based though, I don't know that medication will
help.

I haven't been able to train her out of her people-fear
with all the socialization I could give her over the last
year. I don't think I can train this aggression away by
myself either. I hate to think of the consequences if
medication and future training by someone doesn't work.

In a household with a 6yo, 3 other dogs, a constant flux
of other children and adults coming and going, I can't
have an aggressive dog. She'd have to be crated constantly.

I'm probably overreacting about the future right now but
having a dog that attacks would be irresponsible of me,
considering the kind of life I have and that there are
small children present.

For all that I sound as if I have no hope, don't think
that I'm giving up on her. If the time ever comes that
she can't be helped, she won't be rehomed.

She wouldn't do well with strangers and the alternative
is one that I don't want to think of.

Does anyone have a different take on this than mine?
--
Tara O.
Amie & Summer:.

From: "Tara O." <tara29...@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 21:00:09 -0400
Subject: Re: Boxer Burgers for Dinner Again....

"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010524174915.14600.00001065@ng-mm1.aol.com

> Adolescence. Molars :setting: in the jaw - a
> very typical age to "test". No big surprises
> here except why you let her continue to fail
> over several days.

The first day I figured it was just a fluke and
that since my daughter had been at her father's
house in those shoes (he has a lab puppy & our
mini. dachshund) that maybe the other dog's smell
was strong on the shoe. IOW, I gave her the
benefit of doubt.

The second day (yesterday) I was surprised and
thought maybe she got or bored or agititated. I
brought out an extra toy for her to have and left
the house this morning, giving her a treat as I
go, like normal. I knew that if she messed up
today that it was a new behavior problem.

I didn't want to go back to crating her so fast
without giving her the benefit of doubt. Given
her previously suffered anxiety disorder, Summer
has been crated while I work since I brought her
home. Its taken months on end of building her
out-of-crate time when I'm not home to being all
day. She just achieved that goal last month and
did fine until this week. I didn't want to jump
the gun by re-crating her so instead I gave her an
extra day (2 if you count the 1st day shoe
episode).

> Before giving her that freedom again, make sure
> you have a plan to do it in small steps and set
> her up for success (not so much free space!).
> At this age, some dogs can handle it, some dogs can't.

Believe me, we've been working incremental
'out-times', building her up from 15-minute
increments to the final all-day for months. I'm
saddened that we must go back to square one after
finally overcoming her separation anxiety. A note
here for anyone who might think this behavior is
related to the anxiety.

Never before was she destructive to things on tables,
desks, counters, etc. She would body slam the door
and window, pant, growl, eliminate, etc. when she
suffered a panic attack.

This destruction is very much puppy-type destruction
and not at all similar to what I'd see when she had anxiety.

> Backpeddle a bit, focus on "structure" for her
> every day life (as well as training sessions)
> and in another week (on a weekend!) give it a
> try for an hour or so. She needs to earn the freedom.

Well after today that is the plan. We are
currently in obedience training classes once a
week. I work with her for anywhere from 30
minutes to an hour a day (broken down into 15
minute sessions). I walk her twice a day and take
her for car rides almost everyday. My schedule or
routine rarely ever varies so I've been able to
create the structure she's needed.

I know better than to do otherwise after having dealt
with her separation anxiety and poor socialization.
I've just never seen one of the other puppies I've
raised backslide at this age. They have become
obnoxious but have grown out of their 'tear em up'
phase. Summer seems to be working backwards.

Thanks Janet,
Tara O.

From: "Tara O." <tara29...@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 22:20:07 -0400
Subject: Worried about Summer

Well, I left yesterday for Florida. Amie's dad came and got
her & the crate (she went with him willingly). He called me
shortly after to say that he couldn't get Summer in the crate
so I needed to go by on my way out to lock her up. I did that
and she wasn't very happy about it. Her crate was facing Sully's
(water-pawing puppy) so they were able to see each other. I
thought she'd be okay.

I called first thing this morning to check on her and he
said that last night, he couldn't get her back in the crate
without physically putting her there which he didn't do.

He didn't want to freak her out. He said that she wouldn't
come near him, not even for a treat. He's been the only person
to date that she's totally accepted and wiggles & kidney-beans
for. I just chalked it up to her being upset that I wasn't
there too.

I came home today and he brought her back to me. She wouldn't
come near me. When I speak to her she turns her head away. If
I try to approach her she runs away from me.

She's now been home for 3 hours and still won't come near me.
She won't even go outside to potty. I'm really worried that
I just set her back big time with her separation anxiety.

Normally I'd think she is mad at me (I know, some of you
don't think dogs can get mad). But she won't even eat or
go outside. Any input would be greatly appreciated
--
Tara O.

From: "Tara O." <tara29...@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 22:21:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Worried about Summer

I forgot to add that she also won't go near Amie or allow
Amie to approach or touch her either so its not just me.
--
Tara O.

From: Momi...@webtv.net (misty)
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 14:07:14 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Worried about Summer

Tara O. wrote:
>> I came home today and he brought her
>> back to me. She wouldn't come near
>> me. When I speak to her she turns her
>> head away. If I try to approach her she
>> runs away from me. She's now been
>> home for 3 hours and still won't come
>> near me.
>> She won't even go outside to potty. I'm
>> really worried that I just set her back
>> big time with her separation anxiety.
>> Normally I'd think she is mad
>> at me (I know, some of you don't think
>> dogs can get mad). But she won't even
>> eat or go outside. Any input would be
>> greatly appreciated.
Cindy wrote:
>That doesn't sound like separation
> anxiety but something else. (With SA,
> you never [at least IME] get a dog
> *ignoring* you, it's always the other
> extreme.) Sounds like either fear or
> pain. If fear, I'd give her some time, if
> pain, I'd have a vet check her over.
> That's an odd one, keep us posted.
>--Cindy

I thought the main components of separation anxiety
were stress and fear? Summer has been stressed out,
was fearful of the crate, and fearful of Tara's ex.

I can understand Summer's avoidance of her favorite
people in this way. If a dog has been "punished", it
will act fearful, use avoidance and/or aggressive
towards whomever or whatever it perceives as the "punisher".

Perhaps Summer feels like she has been "punished" by
being separated from her pack and is fearful of further
"punishment".

I interpret this from using time-outs with my kids,
they hate being sent away from us (sent to their room).

~Misty~
³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³³


From: "Tee" <crappolagozh...@netscape.net>
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 22:54:22 -0400
Subject: Re: Feeding in crate--good or bad idea?

"Marie" <m...@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:EM_ic.14993$swh.7347@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...

> Macula still seems to consider the crate , at any time
> other than bedtime, as evil exile. She will not touch
> bones, kongs, etc., I think because she's stressed-
> -barking in a high pitched tone.
>
> I'm thinking about moving her food dish into the crate.
> In addition to (hopefully) making the crate more palatable,
> this may have other pluses:
> the location of her dish right now always attracts ants
> in the summer, and right now the food dish is a magnet
> for the rugrats whenever they are on the floor in this
> room. The potential downsides are that the crate is
> closer to the nursery, and therefore possibly even more
> accessible: and the crate is in our bedroom, which is
> carpeted, and I worry about how much mess might be made
> and the possibility of ants and other ickies invaded the
> bedroom.
>
> Do any of you feed in the crate? Does it work? Will
> this make things better for Macula, do you think?

Does Macula need to be in the crate? I feed in the crate
when I have a new foster dog but that's the only time. If
ants & kidlets are a problem, put the bowl up on top of the
crate, or the counter. This won't work well if you're free-
feeding but it'll work to help ween her onto scheduled feedings.

Like feeding her when you fee the kids. They're probably in
high chairs so they can't bother her or the food. I don't
have any advice on getting a reluctant dog to accept the crate
after long-term attempts. All the dogs I've had have taken to
crating right away.

With the exception of two who had severe confinement anxiety,
all the others not only go in quietly but they nap in their
crates at every opportunity. In this aspect, my breed is easy.
--
Tara

From: "Tara O." <tara29...@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 16:37:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Worried about Summer

"Cindy" <tit...@eris.io.com> wrote in message
news:54tX6.50120$Uo3.1765174@news6.giganews.com...

> Is Summer on any kind of medication? She sounds like
> a candidate for trying some of them out to see the effect.

No she's not. We had done so well on our own with the
timed absences over 6 months that the vet and I wanted
to see if we could bring her out of her anxiety naturally.

It did work as most of you will recall when a few months
ago we'd finally worked up to her being alone during the
workday, outside of her crate, with excellent results.
Then of course about 3 weeks ago she hit the terrible
twos and is being crated again.

As an update...she's a little better today although not much.
She slept, curled in a ball under the table, all evening yesterday.
She still hadn't eaten, drank or gone outside by 11pm when I went
to bed. She was non-responsive to my efforts at getting her to
play, although she would wake up and just look at me.

I checked her over for any physical signs of
ailment and there were none.

My husband swears that nothing out of the ordinary happened.
She had her own food, water, played well with his lab puppy,
but just wouldn't come near him.

He left her to herself since he didn't want to force her
to endure attention she obviously didn't want.

Anyway, sometime last night she came upstairs and went to
sleep under my bed which is her preferred place to sleep
at night. This morning she came downstairs with me and
went outside although she still wouldn't play with me, or
with any of her toys. She slept again for about 3 hours
then I was able to get her to drink. Still no food though.
I don't think the poor pup slept a wink from the time I
left her Saturday morning until she came home at 7 last
night <sigh>.

She's no longer running away from me luckily. She is
however only tolerating my touch. She won't wag her nub,
no wiggling, no playing, etc. Oh, another weird thing
she did last night was to leave the table and paw at her
crate door til I opened it. She then went inside and
curled herself into a ball. She did it again this morning
after coming in from pottying.

I have to wonder if she thinks that she's done something
very wrong. Or if she no longer trusts me not to leave
her for good. That's why I was worried about the separation
anxiety.

Maybe it was so extreme, although not physically apparent,
that she's begun to fear me or lost whatever security she
felt with me. Her use of the crate has always been there,
but not to the extent that she's scrunching herself up in
the back of it.

If I didn't know Scott inside and out I'd really think
something bad happened to her. But he is and always has
been a huge dog lover, and he's always adored Summer.

I just don't know what to think. The vet said that if she
continues in her self-imposed fast, that I should bring her
in tomorrow or Wednesday depending on my instincts. Since
I know what food she ate, where she stayed, and who was
around her, we both feel that a physical problem is problem
not likely.
--
Tara O.

From: "Tara O." <tara29...@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 16:44:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Worried about Summer

> "misty" <Momi...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:23541-3B2E5162-65@storefull-234.iap.bryant.webtv.net...

> I thought the main components of separation anxiety
> were stress and fear? Summer has been stressed out,
> was fearful of the crate, and fearful of Tara's ex.

You know, its strange that she'd fear him because she's
known him since we brought her home. My ex and I are
still very close and he comes by the house quite often.

We've lately been spending alot of time at his house, Summer
included, since we're trying to work out our differences.
She has always (well after about 2 months of seeing him)
adored him. She begs him to play with her, for attention,
etc. She has spent a good bit of time at his house playing
with his pup and our miniature dachshund so the surroundings
were also familiar to her.

She was definitely afraid though according to him and to
her behavior since last night. I wasn't there with her
so that must be the reason, although I don't understand
why she's shunning me now.

> Perhaps Summer feels like she has been "punished" by
> being separated from her pack and is fearful of further
> "punishment".

I think there is some truth to this since she is hiding
in her crate as if that's the only place she's allowed
to be. Her crate is her home beyond a doubt, its her
safe haven, but there have been times that she's been
put in her crate for bad behavior. More so to keep me
from screaming at her than to teach her a lesson so she
does associate the crate to some extent as a place where
I put her when she's been bad.
--
Tara O.

From: "Tara O." <tara29...@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 22:00:06 -0400
Subject: Separation Anxiety

For those of you who may have seen my previous post a
while back on Summer suffering from SA and being crated
when I'm not home and asleep, I have an update...

I let her stay out Friday night when I went to bed, hoping
that her need to keep me awake and moving had magically
disappeared...she did ok, only woke me up 6 times in 4 hours
(this is a progress). I put her in her crate around 5am
because I really needed some uninterrupted sleep. Saturday
night I did the same thing and she only woke me up 3 times
in about 4 hours....that's a 50% reduction! She did however
willing come downstairs to her crate after she realized I
wasn't getting up.

I also left her alone in the house yesterday. I've been
working her alone time up from 10 minutes to 15 minutes
and that seemed to be pushing it. Well yesterday I left
her alone to run to the grocery store, planning to be
gone for about 20 minutes. Someone who, had I seen her
coming I would've left my groceries and bolted out the
door, I used to work with spotted me and wanted to give
me the long version of her life story for the last 5 years.

I ended up not getting home til an hour and 15 minutes
after I'd left (lines were backed up at the registers
too, go figure).

Amie and I walked in the door and to what did our wondering
eyes behold??? A CLEAN HOUSE AND A SAFE DOG!!!!!! She did
it! I think it had something to do with working with her
the previous nights, getting her used to being "alone" even
when I'm physically present.

I'm so proud of her! Amie and I left the groceries in the
car and immediately took Summer out for a walk so she could
socialize and get out of the house. Since she loves her
walks, that was the best way I could think of to praise her
besides all the verbal praise she got.

I remembered the milk & eggs about 2 hours later, sitting
out there in the trunk lol.

Anyways, I think we're on track and together, we're making
great progress. My goal is to be able to leave her unattended
for the entire day that I'm at work and have her not be afraid
or anxious. I'm shooting for July 1st.

Thanks for listening.
--
Tara O.

HOWEDY tara o. aka tee,

Tee wrote:
> I have an Innotek IUT-300 UltraSmart remote trainer in hand.

IT AIN'T GONNA MAKE YOU SMART, tara o. aka tee.

> The collar itself goes on today but will not be used
> for several days as I don't want him to make a collar
> association if possible.

Oh goody! You DID get WIZE to the "collar conditioning".
CuriHOWES AIN'T IT, that NOWON HERE HAS EVER MENTIONED
collar conditioning OTHER THAN The Amazing Puppy Wizard
<{); ~ ) >, and YOU DON'T READ HIS POSTS...

> On Saturday

That's TODAY! HURRAY!

> I'm going to set him up to fail so I can use
> the collar and provide him with a few clear
> associations.

Ahhh.

> Joe Joe knows, without doubt, that counter-cruising and
> trash-raiding are unacceptable. I'm going to intentionally
> put something yummy on the counter and make myself visibly
> scarce. I know he'll take the bait. I plan to tone him for
> approaching/thinking about the food and stimulate him for
> touching the food.

Oh. GOOD IDEA! THAT'LL WIZE HIM UP TO THE COLLAR.

BWEEEEEEEEEAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

> Same with the trashcan and I plan to do this until Monday.

You mean, till you BURN him on Monday.

HE WON'T GO NEAR THEM WHILE YOU'RE WATCHIN so YOU
WON'T BE ABLE TO BURN HIM, tara o. aka tee.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHHAAA!!!

> The way I see it is that I'm taking something I know
> he has made a "this is NOT allowed" association with
> and providing a nick to accompany it.

You mean a SHOCK, tara o. aka tee. Let's not get TOO technical.

> This way when the marking behavior is addressed he will hopefully:
> a) not make a collar association

You mean with the collar that's been "toning" him for a couple days.

> b) know that the correction is a result of

THE RESULT OF YOU HURTIN HIM.

> him doing something inappropriate

Dogs EAT STUFF when they're anXXXIHOWES
and INSECURE, JUST LIKE HOWE YOU DO, with
your bulemia and STUFF.

REMEMBER?

> I have someone local coming by Monday evening just to
> meet Joe Joe and try to figure out the best, least risky
> in terms of possible negative side associations, way to
> handle identifying & association marking Fancy.

Ahhh. EXXXCELLENT! We wouldn't want someWON who
DON'T KNOW HOWE to PUPPERLY HURT a dog to mess
IT up by shockin IT a the wrong time.

> I have websites from Dobbs, Castle, Tritronics and various
> retriever related ecollar articles bookmarked as well as
> some research I did into the archives for conversations
> between Lynn, Amy, Susan F, Trisha, etc.

BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHHAHAAA!!! ALL THE
DOG ABUSERS WHO DON'T POST HERE ABHOWETS nodoGamenedMOORE, eh tara o.
aka tee?

You certainly DID NOT SEE any "COLLAR CONDITIONING"
advice in The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Archives that
DIDN'T COME FROM The Amazing Puppy Wizard.

> I plan to see if I can find a book or two on e-collar
> training at Barnes & Noble this afternoon. Hopefully
> my efforts in this direction and correct use of the tool

You mean PAIN FEAR and INTIMDIATION.

> will provide the fix we're searching for.

Well tara o. aka tee, the FIX AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN
on accHOWENT of as you REPRESS ANXXXIHOWESNESS
BEHAVIORS those behaviors CHANGE to OTHER, often
worse, seemingly UNRELATED behaviors, like attackin
innocent critters and havin halucinations and OCD
behaviors.

> I hope it also calms any fears some of you
> seem to have about me using an e-collar.

HOWE COME you didn't give THIS OPPORTUNITY to
your own DEAD DOG Summer pryor to MURDERIN her?

> It seems to me the best tool for the job

You mean HURTIN him.

> at this point and that it may be foolish to not try it.

And THAT'S HOWE COME you're BOXER RESCUE of NC.

> --
> Tara

HOWEDY tara o. aka tee,

Tee wrote:
> "Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
> news:Fri9691D0D7479Eaustralianshepherdca@rocky-dog.com...
> > At this point, I'd worry less about the *later*
> > than I would about the *now*.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHHAHHAAAA!!!

CuriHOWES AIN'T IT HOWE you got a case of DOMINANCE
PISSIN JUST LIKE HOWE professora melanie's dog Skeeter
got, for the same same same same REASON, tara o. aka tee.

You punk thug coward mental cases HURT and INTIMIDATE
your dogs and make them GO MENTAL JUST LIKE YOURESELVES.

Perhaps it's allelomimetic behavior?

> > As you said in another post, if this problem isn't solved soon,

The PROBLEM is that tara o. aka tee JERKS CHOKES
BRIBES CRATES and INTIMDIATES her dog JUST LIKE
HOWE professora melanie done to her DOMINANCE
PEEIN Papilion Skeeter <{); ~ ) >

> > Joe Joe has to leave.

Seems there's a lotta THAT goin arHOWEND
amongst HOWER RESCUE DOG LOVERS <{): ~ ) >

What makes you MENTAL CASES think you can
play hide the weenie with dogs swapping
them in and HOWET of HOWESES and NOT EXXXPECT
them to BE FEARFUL of their new abuser?

> > I'd be looking at aversions now.

You mean HURT the dog, matty, on accHOWENT
of you don't know HOWE to pupperly handle
and train a dog or your own dog wouldn't
be DYIN of PSYCHOGENIC SEIZURES, matty.

> I'm using aversions now

INDEED. PERHAPS THAT'S HOWE COME the dog
is ANXXXIHOWES and AGGRESSIVE towards the
other dog whom he's already fought with?

> by always supervising and yelling

THAT'S HOWE COME YOUR DOGS ARE
AFRAID AND HOWETA CON-TROLL.

YOU'RE MENTAL CASES... THE WHOWEL DAMNED BUNCH OF YOU.

> when I see him lift his leg near her.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHHAHAAA!!!

THE FIRST RULE OF AVERSIVE TRAININ IS:

YOU GOT TO HURT THE DOG ENOUGH EVERY TIME TILL
THE BEHAVIOR IS EXXXTINGUISHED OR YOU'LL VARIABLY
REINFORCE THE BAD BEHAVIOR.

Ask dr sidman or professor SCRUFF SHAKE dermer
or his punk thug coward dog abusing pal dr mark
plonsky of UofWI <{); ~ ) >

BWEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

> He stops and comes to me immediately

THAT'S SUBMISSIVE BEHAVIOR, tara o. aka tee.
Your dog is AFRAID OF YOU JUST LIKE HOWE you
MADE YOUR OWN DEAD DOG Summer FEAR AGGRESSIVE
of small children despite that she was RAISED
with them.

> but sometimes I'm too late

THAT'S HOWE COME AVERSIVES FAIL.

BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHHAAAA!!!

> or his body language doesn't indicate that
> he's about to approach and pee on Fancy.

Oh yeah, the BODY LANGUAGE. HOWE was your
DEAD DOG Summer's BODY LANGUAGE when you
shoved the cheddar and chocolate in her
head and MURDERED HER DESPITE that The
Amazing Puppy Wizard offered her a SAFE
PERMENANT FREE HOWES FOREVER where she'd
NEVER BE HURT and INTIMDATED like HOWE
you done to her, tara o. aka tee.

> I do praise him when he potties,

BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

You're in your element, eh tara.

> just as I do Fancy, because when I witness it
> habit dictates that I praise "good dog go potty"
> in my very happy voice.

BWEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

> Since I'm supervising outdoor times now

Oh, so NHOWE you CAN HURT HIM EVERY TIME.

> I've been witness to all such events.

But you wasn't ABLE to HURT him sometimes.

> Having spent the last two weeks interrupting him

You mean, INTIMIDATING him.

> with no noticable cure in sight

IN FACT, his BAD BEHAVIOR has INCREASED to CONSTANTLY
as a DIRECT RESULT of YOU ABUSING YOUR DOGS, tara o.
aka tee <{); ~ ) >

> I am trying to find another alternative.

ANY behavior that's CONSISTENT REPEATABLE or PREDICTABLE
is EZ to EXXXTINGUISH NEARLY INSTANTLY so long as you AIN'T
HURTING INTIMDIATING BRIBING and AVOIDING the PROBLEM <{); ~ ) >

> Joe Joe may get yelled at

THAT'S HOWE COME HE'S ANXXXHOWES
AND PISSIN AND ATTACKING.

> which he doesn't like at all

SHAZAM?

> and will cower easily)

Oh? You mean JUST LIKE HOWE matty's dog cowers.

> and easily call off

On accHOWENT of YOU INTIMDIATE him.

> but its not a lasting impression,

On accHOWENT of YOU DIDN'T HURT HIM LIKE THE LAST TIME.

You ever heard of CONSISTENCY?

If you want PAIN FEAR FORCE and INTIMDATION
to WORK YOU GOTTA KNOW HOWE TO HURT FORCE
and INTIMDATE PUPPERLY or you'll REINFORCE
the BAD BEHAVIOR, dog lovers <{); ~ ) >

THAT'S HOWE COME YOU CAN'T TRAIN YOUR DOGS USING PAIN.

YOU CAN'T HURT SOME DOGS ENOUGH
SO YOU GOT TO MURDER THEM.

> or he chooses to continue the behavior

On accHOWENT of he's FRANTICK.

You dog is DYING from STRESS. He's PISSSIN HIS GUTS HOWET.

> the same as the dogs know the trashcan is off-
> limits but they choose to raid it anyway.

Oh? THAT'S ON ACCHOWENT OF YOU TRY TO FORCE BRIBE
and INTIMDATE and AVOID the PROBLEM, dog lovers.

Takes minutes to break a dog of garbage eatin or
C-HOWENTER surfin no matter HOWE long IT been doin
THAT <{); ~ ) >

But you can't do that if you bribe hurt intimdiate and avoid.

> I really don't think he's connecting peeing on Fancy to anything.

Of curse not, on accHOWET of you don't know what
you're talkin abHOWET or you wouldn't HURT and
INTIMDIATE your dogs from the git go.

WOULD YOU.

BWEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

> Today I had the dogs out due to a need to vacate for
> an exterminator. I had both dogs on one leash with
> a coupler because I can't handle two leashes with him
> pulling like freight train (with a pinch collar on).

The dog PULLS on accHOWENT of HE'S AFRAID of
your pronged spiked pinch choke collar YOU use
to CHOKE HIM.

> One of the incidents occured in an outdoor mall.

You shouldn't touch livin critters, tara o. aka tee.
Your own daughter is on ANTI PSYCHOTIC meds in 1st grade.

> We were walking down the pavement when Fancy sidled to
> the left to sniff a bush. Suddenly and without even
> looking at her Joe Joe lifted his left leg and started
> peeing on her.

You should PRAISE HIM and HE'LL STOP.

> One second he was walking and the next he was peeing
> on Fancy. There was no visible warning.

BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHHAAAA!!!

THAT'S VARIABLE REINFORCEMNT, tara o. aka tee.

> Walking back to the car took us through a treed area where
> I purposely walked them through in hopes of giving them time
> to potty if they needed to.

The dog is MARKING. THAT MEANS HE GOT NO NEED TO "POTTY."

He's doin it from ANXXXIHOWESNESS <{); ~ ) >

> Joe Joe made two different attempts to lift his leg on Fancy.

Was you ABLE to HURT him PRYOR to STARTIN?

IF NOT, you're VARIABLY REINFORCING BAD BEHAVIORS...

> Once they were just walking, no trees, bushes
> or sniffing happening and the other was when
> she stopped, turned to look at me and he turned,
> looked directly at her, then sidled next to her
> and started to lift his leg.

UNLESS YOU WAS ABLE TO HURT HIM EACH TIME,
AND UNLESS YOU'RE ABLE TO HURT HIM EVERY
TIME, YOU'RE VARIABLY REINFORCING THE BAD
BEHAVIOR.

EACH TIME YOU DO SO MAKES IT HARDER TO BREAK.

> Then an hour later we were at the park, walking the
> trails, when Fancy was on the left and stopped to
> sniff a bush. Joe Joe attempted to sniff the bush
> as well, from behind Fancy, walked up along side her
> then got immediately called off as I just knew what
> he was thinking.

So, you're sayin you MISSED the last two TRAINING
OPPORTUNITIES and PUNISHED him on the third repetition.

BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

THAT'S MAKE YOUR DOG GO INSANE, like your own DEAD DOG Summer.

Wait??? YOUR DOG ALREADY IS INSANE, or he wouldn't be DOIN THIS.

> He looked at me, put the leg down,

THAT TAUGHT HIM TO DO THE BEHAVIOR ONLY WHEN YOU
CAN'T CATCH HIM, tars o. aka tee. You better up
your ANTI PSYCHOTIC MEDS.

> sat like a good boy, then stood & urinated on her anyway.

Seems your dog knows you're dumber than dirt, eh tara.

> I don't think it was defiance

BWEEEEAHAHAHAHHAHAA!!!

YOUR DOG IS TELLIN YOU TO GO F' YOURSELF, tara o. aka tee.

> so much as he was interrupted

"INTERRUPTED"??? HE PISSED ON HER ANYHOWE
RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU JUST AS SOON AS YOU
STOPPED INTIMIDATING HIM SOMEMOORE.

> but as soon as the interruption passed,

You mean the INTIMIATION that makes him so ANXXXIHOWES.

> and he wasn't sure what the interruption was about,

YOU BEEN HURTIN AND INTIMDIATING HIM FOR TWO WEEK
FOR THE SAME PROBLEM, tara o. aka tee. YOU couldn't
HURT your dog three HOWETA FOUR TIMES HE DONE IT
and THEN when you CAUGHT HIM HE TOLD YOU TO F' OFF.

BWEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!

THAT MEANS YOU GOTTA HURT HIM SOMEMOORE, tara o. aka tee.

> he went back to his business.

The BUSINESS of throwin you the dew claw...

BWEEEEEEEEEAHAHAHHAAHAA!!!

> At home, not an hour later, in the backyard, he
> peed on her again but I didn't see that one.

YOU'LL NEVER EXXXTINGUISH A BEHAVIOR IF YOU
CAN'T HURT THE DOG EVERY TIME HE DOES BAD,
you freakin MENTAL CASE.

> I'd just opened the door when UPS arrived and I had to
> run out front to sign for something. It took about 2
> minutes total of being unsurpervised that time.

BWEEEEEEAHAHAHAHHHAAAA!!!

THAT'S HOWE COME AVERSIVES DON'T WORK, dog lovers.

AVERSIVES ONLY WORK IN A LABORATORY SETTING.

BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

LIKE RIGHT HERE, on The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Forums
and SCHOOL Of HARD KNOCKS and HUMAN BEHAVIOR
RESEARCH LABORATORY <{); ~ ) >

WELCOME, LABORATORY SUBJECTS!

> Sometimes its just her he pees on for seemingly no good reason.

Duh? HE'D RECENTLY FOUGHT WITH HER for which
YOU INTIMIDATED him someMOORE <{); ~ ) >

> Sometimes it appears to be overmarking.

BWEEEEEEEEAAHHAHAHHAHAHAAA!!!

DOGS ARE CONSISITENT, tara o. aka tee, UNLIKE you dog "trainers."

> Sometimes he looks and sometimes he doesn't

Even the DOG knows where his tallywhacker is, tara o. aka tee.

> but I'm pretty sure he always *knows* what he's doing.

UNLIKE YOURSELVES.

> Using an electronic collar,

Will probably make him attack the other dog, tara o. aka tee.

THEN YOU CAN MURDER IT JUST LIKE HOWE YOU DONE YOUR
OWN DEAD DOG Summer on accHOWENT of you COULDN'T STOP
HURTING and INTIMDIATING and LOCKING IT IN A BOX.

> something I was considering purchasing anyway

To HURT and INTIMDIATE your BOXER RESCUE of NC dogs,
tara o. aka tee <{); ~ ) >

> for other reasons,

On accHOWENT of YOU CAN'T TRAIN YOUR DOGS.

> would still require my supervision

Duh? Perhaps you can put a sensor in his diaper
to burn his tallywhacker when he tries it again?

> because I'd have to see him in his approach

You mean HURT your dog someMOORE, tara o. aka tee.

THAT's HOWE COME HE'S DOIN IT, tara o. aka tee.

You know HOWE tricky that BODY LANGUAGE is... he even
DONE IT RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU as you was INTIMIDATIN
him someMOORE. REMEMBER? THEN HE DONE IT AGAIN AND AGAIN.

REMEMBER?

YOUR METHOD AIN'T WORKIN and shockin the dog AIN'T
gonna make him FEEL SAFE and HAPPY, tara o. aka tee.

> in order to issue a correction.
> My issues with this are threefold.

BWEEEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

> First, I don't want him to mistake the correction

Not to worry, tara o. aka tee. HE AIN'T GONNA MISTAKE NUTHIN.

> or not understand it at all

He'll UNDERSTAND you're HURTIN him for bein near
the other dog and he'll TRY to MURDER HER on
accHOWENT of YOU HURTIN HIM for bein near her.

> and its my current opinion that he's not
> understanding why I call him off.

Oh? WHAT DOES THAT MATTER? If you can EXXXTINGUISH
a BEHAVIOR the dog DON'T GOT TO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU
CAN'T TELL HIM, tara o. aka tee. All your pain fear
force and intimidation TELLS HIM is that YOU'RE A
DOG ABUSING MENTAL CASE who HURTS and INTIMDIATES
and won't hesitate to MURDER HIM JUST LIKE HOWE
you done your own DEAD DOG Summer DESPITE that The
Amazing Puppy Wizard offereed her a SAFE FREE HOWES
FOREVER where she'd NEVER be HURT and INTIMDIATED
like HOWE you do to your fear aggressive hyperactive
pissers. You couldn't even HOWEsbreak your Daxie.

> He obeys

No, he's MOMENTARILY INTIMDIATED, which is HOWE
COME he ANXXXHOWESLY DOMINANCE PISSES JUST LIKE
HOWE professora melanie's dog Skeeter does...
FOR THE SAME SAME SAME SAME REASON... YOU HURT
YOUR DOGS.

BWEEEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!

> but he doesn't seem to get the *why* of it

On accHOWENT of it's a OBSESSIVE COMPULSIVE ANXXXIHOWESNESS
BEHAVIOR that HE CAN'T CON-TROLL other than to DO IT WHEN
YOU AIN'T WATCHIN on accHOWENT of you'll HURT HIM someMOORE.

REMEMBER NHOWE?

> and I am unsure about how to drive that point home.

YOU CAN'T. You got to KNOW HOWE to modify behavior
using NON PHYSICAL CON-DITIONING but you AIN'T GOT
THE INTELLECT to HOWEtwit the cunning of the domestic
puppy dog even AFTER The Amazing Pupy Wizard and HIS
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students ALL
OVER The WHOWEL WILD WORLD TOLD YOU HOWE THEY DONE IT
EZ GENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY and FOR FREE, to boot <{); ~ ) >

BUT YOU PREFER TO HURT INTIMDIATE and MURDER innocent critters.

> Secondly, I don't want to indefinitely supervise these
> two every time they want to go outside to play in the
> yard. Its just not feasible all of the time.

Then you'll NEVER TRAIN HIM NOT TO DO THAT.

> I know there are people who do it regularly

BWEEEAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

> but I'm not one of those people and don't plan to become one.

This IS "ALL ABHOWET ME," ain't it, tara o. aka tee.

> I have a large fenced-in backyard for the dogs to play
> & hang out in without the need for me to babysit them.

But you can't leave them HOWET on accHOWENT of
THEY'LL ESCAPE and bark and dig constantly.

> I'm sorry if anyone thinks that makes me less
> deserving or less devoted than is allowed a caring
> pet owner but that's the way it is.

Naaah, not at all, tara o. aka tee. HOWEver, that little
ISSUE of MURDERING and SHOCKING and CHOKING your dogs DOES
make it a bit difficult to fathom you bein a DEVOTED DOG
LOVER.

IN FACT, YOUR POSTED CASE HISTORY makes you LOOK LIKE
a miserable lying dog abusing punk thug coward active
acute long term incurable MENTAL CASE who chokes shocks
and murders dogs and CALLS IT DEVOTION.

> Third, if this behavior isn't 100% curable

ALL behavior problems ARE 100% CURABLE NEARLY
INSTANTLY but NOT if you HURT INTIMDIATE CHOKE
SHOCK SPRAY AVERSIVES CRATE BRIBE SURGICALLY
MUTILATE and MURDER INNOCENT CRITTERS, tara o.
aka tee, you miserable lying dog abusing mental
case <{); ~ ) >

> then he's going to be rehomed and its better

You should GET RID of your dogs and child and SP-HOWES
on accHOWENT of you're a MENTAL CASE tara o. aka tee.

> to figure that out *now*, after 7 weeks here, than
> to figure it out a month from now giving him that
> much more time to believe this is forever and make
> it that much more difficult to find himself rehomed
> later.

HOWE COME you RESCUE DOG LOVERS think you
can TRY dogs for a couple months and GET
RID OF THEM and GET ANOTHER?

THAT'S INSANE.

THAT'S WHAT YOU JUST DONE BUT INSTEAD OF EXXXCHAGING
YOU MURDERED YOUR OWN DEAD DOG Summer. REMEMBER???

> This is taking into account

Deja Vu?

> that should he require rehoming it may well take 1-2
> months before the right, approved, home comes along.

BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAA!!!

SO YOU'LL MURDER IT INSTEAD... SO IT WON'T SUFFER.

> I do NOT want to lose him

Tsk tsk tsk... but you WON'T STOP HURTIN HIM.

> but if he has to go then its kinder for him
> to do it sooner rather than later.

You mean pryor to him GETTIN ATTACHED to you
HURTING and INTIMDIATING him, tara o. aka tee?

> There would be no good time for us because the
> entire family loves him :(

SO LEARN HOWE TO HURT HIM ENOUGH TO MAKE IT
WANT TO STAY THERE WHERE HE'S SO LOVED YOU'LL
SPEND A FEW HUNDRED BUCKS ON A SHOCK COLLAR
TO MAKE HIM FEEL WELCOME.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAHAAA!!!

> All of the above is why I'm desperate for a quick fix.

HE WOULDN'T DO THAT IF YOU DIDN'T HURT HIM.

> I know they rarely exist

NOT SO. The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual Students ALL OVER The WHOWEL
WILD WORLD REPORT CURING ALL temperament and behavior
problems NEARLY INSTANTLY.

You and your MENTAL CASE PALS CALL THEM LIARS and FORGERIES.

> and that its frowned upon to hope for one but the
> situation is desperate.

BWEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA!!!

Well tara o. aka tee, ask tommy soronsen HOWE to
HURT your dog JUST LIKE HOWE he taught professor
melanie HOWE to jerk and choke Skeeter on her
pronged spiked pinch choke collar for his DOMINANCE
PISSIN.

BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAHAA!!!

> Its not just undesirable behavior but unsanitary,

NOT AS UNSANITARY AS YOUR MINDS, dog lovers.

> disgusting

NOT AS DISGUSTING AS YOUR MINDS, dog lovers.

> and requiring heavy effort on the part of all
> family members to keep it down to a minimum.

IOW, THE DOG HAS TRAINED YOU TO PAY HIM ATTENTION.

> Fancy is acting withdrawn

THEY RECENTLY FOUGHT. YOU KEEP PUNISHING HIM.
THAT MAKE HER FEARFUL, tara o. aka tee.

> and the two dogs got into a fight on Sunday.

SHAAAZZZAAAMMM???

> What started as a perfect fit between perfect (IMO)
> dogs has quickly become something different.

YOU MEAN YOU RUINED THEM JUST LIKE HOWE your pals done...

> Joe Joe is still an exceptional dog,

But not for your MENTALLY ILLL HOWES.

> still a great fit,

That so? PERHAPS YOU'RE TALKIN ABHOWET A DIFFERENT DOG?

> still the coolest boy I've ever had live with me

Oh, so THAT'S HOWE COME you HURT him.

> but this problem is of the deal-breaking kind

You mean, LIKE THIS?:

"dejablues" <dejabl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2p4lk6FgvpbrU1@uni-berlin.de...

I recently rehomed one of my dogs that
submissively urinated, we tried for two
years to get him over it but nothing worked.
It is not a behavior I can live with.

------------------

BWEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHHAHHAAA!!!

> and I want to find a way to make it disappear quickly.

OH? You could DO THAT if you STOPPED HURTING HIM.

> We are the 4th home (okay, we were also number 2)

BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

Third time's the CHARM, eh tara?

> this poor dog has lived in in only 2.5 years and
> I don't want to see him go to number 5.

SO YOU'LL HURT HIM SOMEMOORE... TILL HE GOES INSANE
LIKE HOWE YOU DONE YOUR OWN DEAD DOG SUMMER.

> --
> Tara

HOWEDY multi mentally, socially, morally, ethically,
challenged insufficent, stiffled, stunted, abused,
abuser, tara o. aka tee,

Tee wrote:
> "Janet Puistonen" <boxh...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:8eAte.11113$aR1.8755@trndny02...
> > We were just discussing that at home yesterday, because my
> > new rescue dog was supposedly "house trained," according
> > to the forms from the shelter.
>
> > But she is only partially so by my definition, since she
> > has accidents in the house. Despite being taken out every
> > few hours on a fairly regular schedule, she will relieve
> > herself in the house if she feels the need and she's able
> > to sneak off. Unlike a new puppy, she won't actually do
> > it in from of you. My definition of house trained is "won't
> > do it in the house under normal circumstances no matter what,
> > unless sick." (The workday thing doesn't some up since we are
> > both self employed and never leave the dog all day alone indoors.)
>
> Are you sure the accidents aren't stress/confusion related?

You mean, on accHOWENT of HOWEsbreakin is INSTINCTIVE
at four weeks of age, tara o. aka tee? The Amazing
Puppy Wizard TENDS TO AGREE with THAT, tara o. aka tee.

> By that I mean the dog is in a new home with new
> people, smells, routines, expectations.

Yeah, IOW, the dog AIN'T GOT NO BAD HABITS in his new
environment so TRAININ is MUCH EZier, tara o. aka tee.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard TENDS TO AGREE with THAT, too.

> It may be possible that she's still a little unsure of herself.

She's had the dog for MONTHS. The Amazing Puppy Wizard
does NOT TEND TO AGREE with THAT, tara o. aka tee.

> Also, have you had her checked for a UTI?

You mean, on accHOWENT of you ain't got no method
to HOWEsbreak a dog that keeps HOWEtwittin you. The
Amazing Puppy Wizard TENDS TO AGREE with THAT, too,
tara o. aka tee <{): ~ ) >

> --
> Tara

HOWEver, The Amazing Puppy Wizard DOES
NOT TEND TO AGREE with THIS:

"Tending To Agree With The Positive Reinforcement Method"?

HOWEDY People,

Hello Tara,

"Tara O." <tara29...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:n%Zy6.30496$BC6.8869056@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.co
m...

> I tend to agree with the positive reinforcement
> method.

Oh, that's nice. I tend to think people who tend to
agree with positive reinforcement methods tend to be
pulling our chains... That's what I tend to think,
based on my experience working with people who tend to
agree with positive reinforcement who TEND TO
hurt their dogs when their tendencies to use positive
methods are outweighed by their tendencies to run out
of information or intellect and TEND to get frustrated
and TEND NOT to do the things they TEND TO believe are
right, when they TEND to be frustrated, or TEND to be
at a loss for INTELLECT, and TEND TO resort to
violence because they TEND to be shy on BRAINS... I
TEND TO view those folks as hypocrites, that's what I
TEND to do because I just happen to TEND to be HONEST,

> IMO, shock collars should be used only after normal
> obedience training methods have failed.

If your NORMAL obedience training TENDED to properly
train dogs, there would be a TENDENCY to have well
trained dogs. But that's not the case, becasuse NORMAL
obedience training TENDS to provoke, intimidate, and
confound your dog and inhibit his ability to think
and learn to want to work and think and learn... SEE?

That's what I TEND to think about NORMAL obedience
training which TENDS to FAIL because it TENDS to
resort to VIOLENCE instead of TENDING TOWARDS
THE MOST EFFECTIVE SCIENTIFIC METHODS AVAILABLE.

> It just bothers me to imagine shocking my dog, even
> at a very low frequency.

It bothers me less to think of shocking the dog than
thinking about what punishment and confrontation can
do to a dog's temperament. That's what I tend to think
based on my thirty eight years professional experience
training dogs.

> I will definitely admit that there are many dogs who
> either can't or won't benefit from training without
> such things as e-collars.

Is that based on your thirty eight years of experience
specializing in temperament and behavior problems and
protection training in giant breed dogs? Or is that
based on your TENDANCY to believe incompetent dog
abusing Thugs who tell you they TEND to get excellent
results from HURTING dogs to train them because they
TEND NOT TO be intelligent enough to outwit the
cunning of the domestic puppy dog???

OR IS IT BASED ON YOUR TENDENCY TO MURDER
YOUR OWN DEAD DOG Summer?

> I just hope its a last-resort, not a first.

And I just hope you figure out why your pals here who
hurt dogs to train them TEND to claim they have me in
their killfiles, because they TEND NOT TO be able to
answer my questions in good conscience...That's what
they TEND to do around here because our lying dog
abusing Thugs TEND to be INCOMPETENT, IMMORAL,
UNETHICAL, UNPRINCIPLED, DOG ABUSING COWARDS.

Like yourself.

That's what I tend to think.

Your pal, Jerry "The PHONY," Howe. j;~}
The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{) ; ~ ) >

<*.@EarthLink.Net>
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:12:11
GMT Local: Thurs, Oct 7 2004 10:12 am

Subject: "I'm Shocked That I Shocked" tara o. aka tee,
NC Boxer Rescue Abuse

HOWEDY People

Here's WON of HOWER MENTAL CASES
hurtin dogs and lying abHOWET it again.

"I'm shocked that I shocked"

"Tara O." <nos...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bh9f81$vrac2$1@ID-92443.news.uni-berlin.de...

> Due to someone reprimanding Jar-Jar & the word
> "rescue" in the post, I decided to read down and see
> what he was spewing now. I was able to learn that
> besides choking, pinching, crating, abusing and
> murdering my dog, I also shocked her. I must be
> suffering from amnesia.

> Can someone point me to a post where I said
> I shocked my dog, or any dog, or that I even
> know *how* to use an e-collar....assuming I had one
> which must have been stolen at the same time I lost
> my memory.

> One would think Jerry would be happy with the
> "murder" part and all my other training sins but
> evidently not.
> --
> Tara

HOWEDY tara o.,

You didn't HURT INTIMIDATE and MURFDER
your own DEAD DOG Summer:

Date: 2003-04-28 18:09:04 PST

> "Tara O." wrote:

> > Labs are a breed that are normally trained for
> > field work with ear pinches, e-collars and other
> > forms of physical interaction without making them
> > fearful or aggressive.

==============

From: Tara O. (tara29...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Dane hyper when passing other dogs
Date: 2001-04-21 12:07:54 PST

I think its pertinent to mention that I've never had
any dogs who exhibited signs of aggression or were in
any way, shape, or form resistent to whatever
"training" I did with them.

I would not feel comfortable relying on my past
experience or a book to train a dog to stop biting,
snapping or growling.
--
Tara O.

===================

From: Tara O. (tara29...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Canine Behaviors For Dummies
Date: 2001-06-11 19:42:23 PST

"joshua" <jos...@ycsi.net> wrote in message
news:9g3uoi$sc7$0@63.90.193.133...

> I cant seem to understand why people believe prong
> collars are cruel and inhumane. They do nothing more
> than pinch, getting the attention of the animal.

> Choke collars, on the other hand, do permanent
> damage. They bruise the esophagus.

> Shock collars will eventually destroy nerve endings,
> much the same as electric fencing.

Joshua, you have just reopened a can of worms
that can quickly cause infestation here lol
--
Tara O.

==============

From: Tara O. (tara29...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: jerry howe
Date: 2001-04-04 11:58:06 PST

> People are tired of being abused and insulted simply
> for saying they use a prong collar, or a choke
> collar, or an e-collar, or a crate, etc. If you want
> to LEARN more about dog training and dog behavior,
> then listen to what they have to say, too.

"I've never not listened to what people say here.
I use a crate, am about to begin with a choke collar,
I'm not the bad guy here." tara o.

======================

From: Tara O. (tara29...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Electronic Training Collars
Date: 2001-05-11 17:29:33 PST

""Twzl, Sligo and Roy Happy Together"" wrote

> BTW, this is one of the frequent topics on obedience
> email lists. When people say that they haven't used
> corrections, it turns out that they feel that if
> they do it, it's not a real correction. :)

That makes sense in a weird sort of way. I don't
honestly think that its humanly possible to train
anyone or anything without correction. Its human
nature to say 'no' or to stop a behavior by doing
something. I used a tin can with coins to correct
Summer's bad puppy behaviors and the cold shoulder
to correct her other less desirable behaviors. I
have said 'no' so many times that I probably sound
like a broken record. Amie can attest to that
lol.

It seems to me that some people are automatically
equating the term correction with punishment. I
guess they can go hand in hand since my tin can
wasn't something Summer liked. My ignoring her
when she's misbehaving is also something she
doesn't like. Therefore it can be viewed as
punishment? And that term is 100% negative.

Maybe if more people saw it as correction and not
the total negative, they'd be less inclined to
want to be PP.

Don't know if the way I wrote that made sense, it
makes sense in my head but then again the men with
the white coats could come a'knockin at any
moment.

Tara O.

===================

From: Tara O. (nos...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Any hope? rage?
Date: 2003-03-26 05:46:02 PST

Yes I see and understand your point. There's no such
thing as 100% vigilence 100% of the time IMO. You
could call an e-fence company to find out if its
possible to wire only your front door so that if she
gets within a certain range of that front door the
collar will start working. I'd think there would be a
way to work that and it may be inexpensive to do
so.

There are also items called Scat Mats that you place
in front of doors or any area you don't want your dog
to proceed through. When stepping on the mat, it gives
off a vibration, something which most dogs hate.
They'll stay far away from the mats. I believe you can
buy them from
--
Tara

==================

Tara O. (nos...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Need advice--barking dog
Date: 2003-08-06 17:38:14 PST

you could consider installing an invisible fence just
inside the fence line so he cannot get too close. You
could talk to your neighbor about splitting the cost
of whichever alternative you both find most
acceptable.
--
Tara

=================

From: Tara O. (nos...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Containment Collars
Date: 2003-03-11 07:12:57

I know people who have electric fences and it works
very well for them. I know people who have them and
whose dogs escape and refuse to come back in. From
the details I know of all involved, I wouldn't use an
e-fence on:

1. An adult dog that wasn't raised with the fence from
a puppy
2. A dog with a high prey drive
3. A very stubborn dog

If I put my female out in an e-fence, the very first
kid, cat, dog or squirrel she sees would have her
bolting through the barrier shock or not. When she
finally loses interest in whatever has caused her to
leave and her adrenalin has diminished, she will think
rationally and realize she's not willing to come back
into the yard because she knows the shock would get
her.

you have a dog who just has to go after or
up to any and everything that walks down the street
then I'd definitely not recommend one of these
systems. The people I know who it works for installed
them when their dogs were pups so they were brought up
trained to it. Two of the ones I know it didn't work
for have adult adopted dogs who weren't raised
with this kind of invisible barrier.

===================

From: Tara O. (tara29...@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: escape artist, thunder, aggression
questions Date: 2001-05-12 07:56:04 PST

Since he got a taste of freedom and knows he can
get out I doubt you'll be able to stop him short
of tethering him or using a more sophisticated
device like an e-fence but I wouldn't recommend
going the electronic fence route without first
doing your homework on the pros and cons of them
and understand that they are not fool-proof.

=========================

MacKenzie's First Pinch Collar Class
Date: 2003-07-08 13:54:19 PST

I consider myself to be a pretty good basic obed.
trainer of Boxers with some learned but not necessarily
practiced, advanced training knowledge.

I think this because not only have I worked
with all the dogs I've had at my house but I'm also
the one in charge of all the dogs in our rescue, their
behavioral issues (identifying and working with),
basic training (done in the foster home) and a host of
other things. I'm the one who gives the advice and
walks the foster volunteers through alot of things.

Now I don't believe, for a second, that I would be
successful at teaching basic obedience to other dogs
in a class environment. Maybe I would but probably
not. Other trainers with class experience may think I
have no clue what I'm doing because my experience
has been primarily hands-on and with only one breed.

=========================

From: "Tee" <crapolagozh...@netscape.net>
Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2003 14:14:15 -0500

Subject: Re: Free to Good Home, One Slightly Used Boxer

"shelly" <scouvre...@bluemarble.net> wrote in message
news:Pine.BSF.4.56.0312171301560.21501@tesla.bluemarble.net...

> mmmmm. potatoes. potatoes are harriet's favorite, and
> elliott's *only* vice. he wants to be a potatoE farmer when
> he grows opposable thumbs (i think he is in talks with HarCo
> about thumb prostheses). i can't count the number of times
> i've come home to potatoes strewn throughout the house. and,
> there are toothmarks in every damned one of them, too! don't
> tell anyone, but i took a big-assed bowl of elliott-inspired
> potatoE salad to a party last summer. heh.

LOL. Well you know what they say about dogs' mouths.

> that sounds familiar. and, if it's not the dogs, it's the
> cats. did i tell ya'll about the stick of butter harriet
> scored from the cats? i finally got smart and put the butter
> in the upper cupboard. unfortunately, i forgot to shut the
> door all the way, so echo (the same cat), climbed inside and
> helped herself. i would've never noticed, except for the tip
> of her tail sticking out of the cupboard.

Too funny. I never realized cats were such thieves.

> i've given up hope that harriet will grow out of her, um,
> creativeness. i try to look at the bright side: it's
> relatively cheap entertainment (i almost always get a good
> laugh out of it).

Mentally I've accepted that she'll always be like this.
It should be listed as a breed trait IMO because most
Boxers are counter cruisers & trash raiders anyway.

I still have hope though only because I want the demmed
ugly crate out of my living room. She loves her crate
unfortunately and the last time I tried to take it away
she let me know she didn't appreciate it.

Its just big, taller than my regular furniture, so even
in disguise it looks out of place.

> she's been talking to harriet!

Yeah well, I've long suspected someone has been at this
keyboard when I'm sleeping. Now I know who. You really
ought to shut down your pc at night, me too, so the two
heathens can't talk to each other.

> ha! i can usually tell when harriet's been into
> something, because bits of it get stuck to her flews.

I wish that were the case with Fancy. Instead it looks
like she dove, nose first, into a bowl of shaving cream.

> aw, did she have her halo on?

absolutely and it was at its brightest too.

> clever girl!

shh, she can hear you!

> mine, when they're caught red-handed, run to their crates. i
> guess their crates are doggie Home Base? harriet will even
> run to hers if she *thinks* she might've done something Bad.
> and, i think i've mentioned before that elliott hides food in
> harriet's crate--never in his, though, so i have to wonder if
> he's that smart or that st00pid. it's often hard to tell with
> him.

Fancy does that when I'm home and she's done something naughty.
Its only when I'm not in the house and she does something that
I catch her sitting on the sofa (or the kitchen table once...as
if THAT didn't give her away) looking all angelic.

Now once I find what she has done, she bolts
to her crate and pretends to be sleeping.

--
Tara

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!

The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >


DrZonk
2005-12-23 16:52:55 EST
In article <HfQqf.53655$2k.26371@pd7tw1no>, nickie_anne@shaw.ca says...
> we recently adopted a dog that is 18 months old. while the shelter had her
> in her foster home she did not have any problems, she never did anything in
> the house. now she just randomly pees on my carpet, she makes no indication
> she wants to go out, and sometimes she does this like 5 minutes after i have
> walked her. i dont know what to do with her. i want to be able to let her
> roam the house but I cant while she is doing this. any ideas? please help.
> please email me at nickie_anne@shaw.ca
> thank you very much,
> Nicole

Hello Nicole,

Just wanted to warn you in advance of this pervert and newsgroup abuser
who is trolling the room. His alias is The Amazing Puppy Wizard and real
name is Jerry Howe.

Since you are new here, you just got hooked by replying
to this well known netloon and troll. Once he baits you
as he does with others, you became troll bait and he will flame
you and harass you through this newsgroup and in email.

PLEASE killfile this well known Jerry Howe aka
The Puppy Wizard who is using alot of alias in
here. He is a pathological liar, pervert and
bastard net kook.

All he does is slander and defame people in
here and never listens when told to stop. He knows
nothing about dog training or canine behavior.

He just makes this up, his nose gets longer and
longer like Pinocchio due to lying for years
and he has been abusively trolling this newsgroup
and others for years.

He keeps putting " XXX " in each word, which means
that he is so perverted and he is mentally ill and
off his medication and it is better that all of
you keep him in your killfiles for the time being.

A*@MuchoMail.Com
2005-12-23 17:58:58 EST
Here's your own FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizarrd's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual:

<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>


From: <BNTDO...@aol.com>
To: <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: Wits end Training

Hi Jerry,
Send the post to whom ever you wish to. Believe
me I will keep you updated. I got to tell you His
amazing progress almost makes me cry.
Kay Pierce

From: BNTDO...@aol.com
To: jho...@bellsouth.net
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: THANKS ALISON! - "Owners Should Always
Be Given The Cold, Hard Facts: They Should NEVER FEEL
GUILTY For Having An Aggressive Dog Euthanized."

Dear Jerry,

It's Kay here. I don't know who these people are that
maligning you and your training manual but tell them
from me that it does work.

Hunter is just doing so well even the people who advocated
putting him down are impressed with him.

I even started using it with the neighbor's dog. I went over
there to help her cut his nails. She started yelling at him
for growling at me. I told her to tell him what a good boy he
is instead. Lo and behold he stopped growling and I could
do his nails. All 4 feet.

My dog Hunter was trained with the old jerk and pull method
and my other dog was trained with treats. Hunter has gotten
his enthusiasm back for his training and I couldn't be more
pleased.

He even tried to kiss a child the other day.

Major break through.

This is the dog that a few months ago tried to eat the kids
through the fence. I can now take him in the car with me
again without him trying to chase cars through the windshield.

So Jerry tell these people that the first rule of dog training is:

Do No Harm.

The 2nd rule is whatever works without breaking the first rule.

Aggressive dogs don't need to be put down. Hunter was
diagnosed aggressive and he is going to stay alive and by my
side where he belongs.

Thank you so much.
Kay

========================

From: <BNTDO...@aol.com>
To: <jho...@bellsouth.net>

Cc: <HullCr...@aol.com>; <britp...@yahoo.com>;
<*.@thefelixfamily.com>;
<*.@hotmail.com>

Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 6:50 PM
Subject: Head Hunter

Dear Jerry,

Just thought I would write to let you know how
well Hunter is doing. He had been trained using
the conventional methods for obedience. He had
gotten used to a choker and a pinch collar.

Alot of pain and a lot of jerking around. I had also
tried using positive reinforcement methods that I
had been trained in. He was so busy looking for
the treat that he didn't really want to work.

So I went back to using the pinch collar on him
and also a gentle leader when we were in public.
Slowly by degrees his behavior got worse and
he did deserve his reputation as a vicious dog.
The vet had recommended that he be put down.
I was in a panic when I found your web site.

Thanks! He is now the happy dog that I first
started out with 5 years ago. I am a professional
trainer and it was distressing to me that I could not
help my own dog. I had been told that some dogs
don't respond to any kind of training and that a
vicious dog can never be trusted again.

I disagree!

Hunter is a sight hound and now I can take him
with me and he doesn't chase cars as much
anymore which is one of his main problems.

We are working on the dog aggression thing.
And I am confident that will be successful too.
I also have your BIOSOUND machine and that
too is working good. I know of several rescue
groups that would benefit from it.

This is rather long I know but it comes from the
heart. My Head Hunter Green and I have together
along time and have been through so much together.

Thank you for helping me save his life.

Kay Pierce

========================

> I know how to get the socks back,

By REWARDING him with a TREAT.

But that only REINFORCES his "bad behavior"
and may PROVOKE the repetition of the event
which may make him HYPER if he can't do it to
get you to release a reward for NOT doin it
or GIVIN IT UP. Then he's gonna want it back...

"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVERY LEARNING THEORY
model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT. Of curse,
Skinner has never to my knowledge, demonstrated
HOWE we escape the phenomenon that an expected
reward not received is experienced as a punishment
and can produce extensive and persistent aggression
(Azrin et al, 1966)."

> I want to know how to stop the anger so that
> if anyone unknowingly tries to take it away
> from him they won't end up hurt.

Well then, you gotta teach him to TRUST:

"...all the highest nervous activity, as it manifests
tself in the conditional reflex, consists of a continual
change of these three fundamental processes -- excitation,
inhibition and disinhibition," Ivan P. Pavlov

"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement. IOW,
emotions, not outside rewards, are what
reinforces any behavior."

"All animals learn best through play." -- Konrad Lorenz

Pavlov Told Us So 100 Years Ago. Sam Corson,
Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At UofOH
Oxford, That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive
Dogs Can Easily And Readily Be Done Using TLC.
Tender Loving Care Is At The Root Of The
Scientific Management Of Doggys. <{) ; ~ ) >

ALL temperament and behavior problems are CAUSED
BY MISHANDLING and therefore CAN BE CURED NEARLY
INSTANTLY by simply studying and applying the
METHODS PRINCIPLES and PHILOSOPHY of behavior AS
TAUGHT in your own FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual:

"The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change,
Or They'd Not Be Scientific And Would Not Obtain
Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective Results
For All Handler's
And All Dogs,
NEARLY INSTANTLY,
As Taught In Your FREE Copy Of The Puppy Wizard's FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual,"
The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >


DrZonk
2005-12-23 20:40:35 EST
In article <1135378738.492720.38860@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
A*t@MuchoMail.Com says...

>
> From: <BNTDO...@aol.com>
> To: <jho...@bellsouth.net>
> Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 7:22 PM
> Subject: Re: Wits end Training
>
> Hi Jerry,
> Send the post to whom ever you wish to. Believe
> me I will keep you updated. I got to tell you His
> amazing progress almost makes me cry.
> Kay Pierce

Hello Kay,

Just wanted to warn you in advance of this pervert and newsgroup abuser
who is trolling the room. His alias is The Amazing Puppy Wizard and real
name is Jerry Howe.

Since you are new here, you just got hooked by replying
to this well known netloon and troll. Once he baits you
as he does with others, you became troll bait and he will flame
you and harass you through this newsgroup and in email.

PLEASE killfile this well known Jerry Howe aka
The Puppy Wizard who is using alot of alias in
here. He is a pathological liar, pervert and
bastard net kook.

All he does is slander and defame people in
here and never listens when told to stop. He knows
nothing about dog training or canine behavior.

He just makes this up, his nose gets longer and
longer like Pinocchio due to lying for years
and he has been abusively trolling this newsgroup
and others for years.

He keeps putting " XXX " in each word, which means
that he is so perverted and he is mentally ill and
off his medication and it is better that all of
you keep him in your killfiles for the time being.

A Poor Shepherd Boy And His Dog At His Masters Feet
2005-12-23 21:30:37 EST

DrZonk wrote:
> In article <1135378738.492720.38860@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> AtHisMastersFeet@MuchoMail.Com says...
>
> >
> > From: <BNTDO...@aol.com>
> > To: <jho...@bellsouth.net>
> > Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 7:22 PM
> > Subject: Re: Wits end Training
> >
> > Hi Jerry,
> > Send the post to whom ever you wish to. Believe
> > me I will keep you updated. I got to tell you His
> > amazing progress almost makes me cry.
> > Kay Pierce
>
> Hello Kay,
>
> Just wanted to warn you in advance of this pervert and newsgroup abuser
> who is trolling the room. His alias is The Amazing Puppy Wizard and real
> name is Jerry Howe.
>
> Since you are new here, you just got hooked by replying
> to this well known netloon and troll. Once he baits you
> as he does with others, you became troll bait and he will flame
> you and harass you through this newsgroup and in email.
>
> PLEASE killfile this well known Jerry Howe aka
> The Puppy Wizard who is using alot of alias in
> here. He is a pathological liar, pervert and
> bastard net kook.
>
> All he does is slander and defame people in
> here and never listens when told to stop. He knows
> nothing about dog training or canine behavior.
>
> He just makes this up, his nose gets longer and
> longer like Pinocchio due to lying for years
> and he has been abusively trolling this newsgroup
> and others for years.
>
> He keeps putting " XXX " in each word, which means
> that he is so perverted and he is mentally ill and
> off his medication and it is better that all of
> you keep him in your killfiles for the time being.



"Linda" <llindaleedan...@msn.com wrote in message
news:

I have been trying for the last 18 months to help my
dog who became fear aggressive at 18 month of age.
I do not know what started the problem but he came
aggressive first with dogs and then began lunging and
snapping at people. Until this time he loved everyone
and could play with any dog. He was well socialized
ad I took him with me everywhere.

At 13 months he passed the Canine Good Citizens
Test except he could let me leave him. I had used
clicker training to teach him manners and tricks but
it was not working on his aggression problem.

I took him to vets who suggested a low protein diet,
trainers who charged $800 to only make him worse.
They tried to use a prong collar and he froze, urinated
and tried to climb on my head to help him. they then
suggested a shock collar I knew this approach was not
working as he was becoming more aggressive.

I took him to an animal behaviorist with Ph. D. 400 miles
away who told me to "KEEP HIM SAFE" and read a book
on the fearful canine. I tried another trainer who tried to
use a nylon chock collar but it only made him worse.

I read hundreds of books,"CULTURE CLASH", "DOG
ARE FROM NEPTUNE", "THE OTHER END OF THE
LEASH", ETC looking for help. We finally went to Purdue
University Small Animal Behavior Clinic and they said he
had fear aggression, punishment would not work, use the
gentle leader and when out walking and he got stressed
have the people stop until he could get in control using
treats, and work on clicker training.

At that point I knew more about clicker training and using
the gentle leader than they did! Nothing was working--he
would not come when I called him and would run away when
I tried to catch him. I was afraid to walk him even in the
neighborhood as we had become that "mean dog and women who
hasn't trained her dog"

I went to four trainers in both Michigan and Florida who
were trainer/specialists in aggression and the last two
were so afraid of him they could not approach him. No one
said I should give up on him and kill him but they would
say "You have to realize he is dangerous and you are
responsible for him."

*(You got LUCKY, Linda... They coulda got Sunshine
DEAD on us. Damned near did... too.)

As last resort I tried the internet again--I had had on
going discussions with trainers from Triple Crown and Dr
Meister with out any help-and I found the ad to Doggy Do
Right and messaged Jerry to ask if this might help my dog.
He said solving the aggression problem was EZ but I could
not believe him even when I downloaded the manual.

The name of the method was right I was at my Wits End.
I had been working for 18 months!

Using the can sound three time he came, and still comes
from anywhere with the command-"comegoodboy" Next
I tried the can when walking him--when he saw a dog three
blocks away he went off-lunging and snapping-I used the
can sound and he looked at me like uhn?

I used it three more times and we got to the other dog-
-the looked at me wagging his tail--the other person
looked at me like why are shaking that can but just walked
on by.

When ever I try to explain about the sound people look at
me like "you must be out of your mind"

The results can make a believer!!!

Three weeks since beginning the Wits End Training
Manual program I walked him without the gentle leader
in a busy shopping area with many dogs.

He just seemed to not notice any one.

When people talked to him or ask his name he would
look at then and wag his tail and let then pet him.

I still can not believe the change in him--we can now
enjoy life out in public.

If I had not found the Wits End method I know there
was no hope for him and he would have hurt someone
Through all this he never growled at me, guarded his
toys or food or showed any sign of aggression with me.

My goal is to get the message out to all dog lovers that
dogs can be trained fast, easily and problems solved with
out force, pain, food or anything but sound and praise!!!!

I know most people would have given up on him a long time
ago but he was and is my life. Solving the problem was EZ
but only with the right approach-sound and praise.

I know because I tried everything else and nothing worked!!!

================================

From: Linda Daniel
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:06 AM
Subject: Re: - Re: dog aggression

Thanks for writing--I would be happy to do almost anything
to get your approach out to dog owners as I know it would
save so many lives. I know at times I was so frustrated I
thought of giving up on Sunshine but of course I never would
have but many people would have. The world just does not
know you can train a dog in just a few sessions and actually
solve problems.

We will be here until late April and we really have no plans-
-just to enjoy the warmth and sun of Florida, so any time
you could meet us would be great. I drive so I would be
happy to come to you anytime anywhere!

We went to Celebration today and two little poodles got
right into his face and he just sat there--I GOT a little
scared but he handled it just fine.--a couple of times people
would ask his name and want to pet him and he just went
to them tail wagging and rolled over for them rub his tummy.

He really just is not concerned about people passing, even
those on rollerblades! I have always used a gentle leader
in public but he spent most of time rubbing his face on the
grass--today I used his collar and he was so much happier!!

Only problem is he will stop to smell and I can not get
stopped soon enough to keep the leash loose. He never
pulled ahead of me but when he gets into smelling I have
a hard time getting him going--at times I think he could
smell a blade of grass for 10 minutes.

I can never thank you enough for giving Sunshine back!!!!!

I wrote to Purdue and told them about him being able to
walk in a crowd with out the /gentle leader and not having
a problem with other people and dogs.

I told them their advice did not work. Their advice was
to use the gentle leader at all times and when he was
around people or dogs to have him sit and reward with
treats--one really good suggestions was to have people
coming toward us stop when he got stressed or aroused
and not move until we backed away-

- can you just see me yelling at people to stop on the street
until I get his attention with treats.

They also suggested the possibility of using drugs-prozac-
but thought he was too dangerous as the drug would make
him less fearful and then he might attack or become more
sure of himself and become dominate aggressive. Just had
to share their great advice with you but I am sure you have
heard it all--even I am becoming an expert on bad advice.

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