Dog Discussion: Pit Lovers. Ignorance In A Can.

Pit Lovers. Ignorance In A Can.
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Diane Johnson
2005-11-29 02:08:46 EST




This is not to sound condesending, but what is the problem with you pit
lovers? My local pound will not put a pit up for adoption. They are
allways put down. Lets keep in minde the fact that pits are bread of fight
and enjoy killing.

Just like the 3 pits who nearly tore my neighbors dog apart just because he
strayed to close to the dog house. They did not bark at the dog before it
got too close to their reach. They didn't warn that dog that it was too
close. They were all on 15 foot chains when they snatched the little
terrior up and carried it away like lions would its prey. 2 other neighbors
had to risk themselves to save the poor dog from those vicious beasts with
what ever they can grab.

I love how you idealistic pit lovers like to boast that pits act how you
rais them. If that is true then tell me something. Why did my friend (who
loves dogs) get bit in the face (unprovoked and for no reason) by a pit who
was given all the love in the world and never once got beaten or mishandled
a day in its life? That dog never showed any agressive tendencies before
that. Can you consider that dog to be stable? My friend had to get
stitches and was nearly traumatised to the point of fearing other dogs. The
owner of that dog is lucky he didn't get sued.

Why do you pit lovers think that raising is everything and genetics play no
role in personality or temperment? Don't you know that a dog behavior is
influenced by the way it was bread? Don't you know that boarder collies
instinctivly nip at the ankles of joggers because they were bread to heard
sheep that way? How could you possibly intrust your lives to a dog that is
programmed to kill for fun? Even if the statistics are small, you are still
living with an animal that is fully capable of suddenly hurting you, your
child, or a neighbors child, ect for possibly no reason.

One more question. How do you sleep at night?



A*@HushMail.Com
2005-11-29 16:49:21 EST
HOWEDY Diane,

Diane Johnson wrote:
> This is not to sound condesending, but what is the
> problem with you pit lovers?

THAT'S EZ, Diane. HOWER Pit Bull Lovers treat their
fear aggressive little dogs with SPECIAL CARE on
accHOWENT of they NEED SPECIAL CARE <{); ~ ) >

> My local pound will not put a pit up for adoption.
> They are allways put down.

LIKE THAT, FOR EXXXAMPLE.

> Lets keep in minde the fact that pits are bread

You mean Pita bread? Or do you mean fightin BRED Pit Bulls?

> of fight and enjoy killing.

THAT'S the pupaganda put HOWET by the Pit Bull DOG LOVERS
who jerk choke shock intimidate crate and MURDER their own
fear aggressive dogs on their first grHOWEL at a human.

Let's keep in mind A DOG IS A DOG. That dog abusing
mentally ill cowards breed LITTLE dogs to fight in
the pit as a GENTLEMAN'S SPORT doesn't mean the DOG
is viciHOWES, it's the MENTALLY ILL ABUSER who is.

> Just like the 3 pits who nearly tore my neighbors dog
> apart just because he strayed to close to the dog house.

Dogs are terrortorial by NATURE. What was your neighbor's
dog doin OFF of his own TERRORTORY?

> They did not bark at the dog before it got too close to their reach.

The same same will happen with ANY dog CHAINED. It's called
"CHANED DOG SYNDROME" and for THAT reason chaining dogs has
become ILLEGAL in several states in the U.S.

> They didn't warn that dog that it was too close.

Of curse not. That'd chase away the INTRUDER.

> They were all on 15 foot chains when they snatched the little
> terrior up and carried it away like lions would its prey.

THAT AIN'T typical of the Pit Bull, it's typical of ANY CHAINED DOG.

> 2 other neighbors had to risk themselves to save the poor dog
> from those vicious beasts with what ever they can grab.

That was KINDLY of them but the dogs WAS on their own pupperty.

> I love how you idealistic pit lovers like to boast
> that pits act how you rais them.

That's true of ANY dog, Diane. It's the Pit Bull Lovers
who jerk and choke and shock and surgically mutilate
and murder their SPECIAL breed of dog.

> If that is true then tell me something. Why did my friend
> (who loves dogs) get bit in the face (unprovoked and for no
> reason) by a pit who was given all the love in the world and
> never once got beaten or mishandled a day in its life?

Dogs DON'T DO NUTHIN for NO REASON. Perhaps if you
give the DETAILS we can figger HOWET HOWE COME.

> That dog never showed any agressive tendencies before that.

Perhaps it had a BRAIN TUMOR?

> Can you consider that dog to be stable?

You'd have to give the DETAILS to figger HOWET HOWE COME he attacked.

> My friend had to get stitches and was nearly traumatised
> to the point of fearing other dogs. The owner of that dog
> is lucky he didn't get sued.

Yeah.

> Why do you pit lovers think that raising is everything and
> genetics play no role in personality or temperment?

Oh, on accHOWENT of IT IS.

> Don't you know that a dog behavior is influenced by the way it was bread?

You mean like HOWE some BREADS rise and others don't? Like Pita BREAD?

> Don't you know that boarder collies instinctivly nip at the ankles
> of joggers because they were bread to heard sheep that way?

Don't you know THAT is the visual oral reflex and
IT can be EXXXTINGUISHED in a couple minutes?

> How could you possibly intrust your lives to a dog that
> is programmed to kill for fun?

ALL AGGRESSION IS FEAR. ALL FEAR IS CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.

> Even if the statistics are small, you are still living
> with an animal that is fully capable of suddenly hurting
> you, your child, or a neighbors child, ect for possibly
> no reason.

Oh? Sez you. THAT'S INSANE.

> One more question. How do you sleep at night?

With a dictionary as a pillow...

Here's EVERY THING you gotta know abHOWET Pit Bull Dogs:

HOWEDY Kate,

kate wrote:
> I'm a new (and somewhat reluctant) owner of a pit bull.

Congrats!

> I'm not sure this is the right place to ask,

WELCOME to The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Forums. I'm Jerry Howe, The Amazing Puppy
Wizard.

HERE'S YOUR OWN FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual:

<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>

http://www.irishdogs.ie/Information/Wits_End_Dog_Training.pdf

> but I'm giving it a shot.

Good for you. FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS PRECISELY and
ASK The Amazing Puppy Wizard if you need any additional
FREE HEELP and you got a FRIEND FOR LIFE. OtherWIZE you'll
end up like the rest of these lying dog abusing punk
thug coward mental cases who BLAME THE DOG for THEIR
temperament and behavior problems and jerk choke shock
surgically mutilate and MURDER their own fear aggressive
hyperactive HOWETA CON-TROLL dogs and LIE abHOWET it
to protect their own SENSITIVE FEELINS.

> Can pit bulls

A dog is a dog. Pit Bulls ain't as tall as Great
Danes nor as fast as Grey HOWENDS but other than
build and fur, a dog is STILL a DOG.

> play with other dogs off leash?

Pit Bulls GOT a BAD REPUTATION on accHOWENT of
the lying dog abusing punk thug coward mentally
ill Pit Bull FANCIERS who TREAT their big hearted
fighting dogs DIFFERENTLY on accHOWENT of they
don't know HOWE to pupperly handle and train them.

> Can they ever be off leash if not in a fenced area?

Of curse. Didn't you ever watch "The Little Rascals"
on T.V.? That dog Petey was a Pit Bull and he was
NEVER on leash and always played with and protected
the Gang.

> With all the media hype about pits,

That media HYPE is generated by the Pit Bull
Fanciers who MURDER their own dogs on their
first grHOWEL at a human being on accHOWENT
of they're DOG ABUSING PUNK THUG COWARDS.

> and the different rescue websites I've visited,

Those so calle rescue websites are RUN BY the
SAME DOG ABUSING PUNK THUG COWARDS who TREAT
their Pit Bull dogs with SPECIAL CARE so's not
to cause their favorite breed a BAD REPUTATION
on accHOWENT of THEY CAN'T TRAIN THEIR DOGS NOT
TO FIGHT on accHOWENT of ALL AGGRESSION IS FEAR
and ALL FEAR is CAUSED BY MISHANDLING like jerking
and choking and shocking and locking them in boxes
and surgically sexually mutilating them.

> it sounds like you never want them to become overstimulated.

Dogs BECOME "hyperactive" on accHOWENT of the
DOG ABUSERS and PARTICULARLY HOWER Pit Bull
LOVERS HURT and INTIMIDATE their dogs.

> If true,

EVERY THING the EXXXPERTS tell us abHOWET dogs
nd PARTICULARLY the Pit BUll is BULL fabricated
by DOG ABUSING PUNK THUG COWARD MENTAL CASES like
you're writing to here on The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Forums.

> how do you keep a hyper dog from becoming over stimulated?

You EXXXTINGUISH their "HYPERACTIVITY" NEARLY INSTANTLY by
NOT DOIN what the DOG LOVERS tell us to do to HOWER dogs.

> Kate

Chrisman Dinnan wrote:

By "Toughness" I mean that which makes pitbulls
different from a border collie for example. An
owner who has not researched properly must be
informed about various aspects of the breed and
toughness is definatly one of them.

Sure, my dog is pretty much a sissy, raised him
from five weeks old, he took naps in the palm of
my hand while I rubbed his belly and talked to
him, got him that young because I wanted him and
my Bull Terrier (also a sissy) to get along, and
they do, but make no mistake about it, where the
normal dog may bark at a squirel my pitbull "Usul"
(means: the strenght at the base of the pillar)
damm near shimmy up that tree and will bloody his
mouth trying to bite branches to better his position.

It is this determination, their tender and thoughtful
expressions, thier wide, beautiful heads, the purpose
for which the breed originated, thier athleticism, the
gentle manner in which they can take you entire forearm
in their massive jaws and never bruse you when you play,
thier bad gass, TUG-OF-WAR, and "toughness" that sets
them appart from other breeds.

Toughness is a virtue, we should not be
afraid to mention it in this newsgroup.


A Dog Lover's Eulogy To His BEAST Friend:

For Usul... + Congratulations, Graduate Of
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
School Of HARD KNOCKS -
Think, IMPROVISE, And WELCOME GRADUATE STUDENTS!!!:

Hello chrisman,

"Chrisman Dinnan" <broco...@earthlink.net>
news:B87BB320.8DA%brocolli@earthlink.net...

> Something is wrong with the world and I just can¹t
> stand it anymore, no longer will I be greeted by
> your waging tail when I come in the door.

Oh, well that's EZ to figger HOWET, chrisman!

That's on account of you freakin MURDERED your own dog
cause you mishandled him like the rest of your dog lover
pals do with their incessant penchant for crates bribes
pronged spiked pinch choke collars and shock devices.

What the heel do you EXPECT?

That's HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy Wizard DON'T
USE use those "TOOLS" which make your dog THINK
you are freakin G-D, chrisman.

> Your presence is missed, I just thought you should know,

You MURDERED your own dog on accHOWENT of you
COULDN'T STOP JERKING and CHOKING IT on your
pronged spiked pinch choke collar JUST LIKE
HOWE The Amazing Puppy Wizard SEZ YOU WOULD.

DIDN'T YOU, you sorry pathetic dog abusing coward.

> I would have given anything just so you didn¹t have to go.

Yeah. Everything but STOP JERKING and CHOKING your
dog to make you FEEL like freakin G-D you miserable
doubletalkin dog abusin LUNATIC. You REFUSED to learn
HOWE to handle him puperly.

You TRAINED your dog to growl at kids cause you HURT
and INTIMIDATED him just like steve walker done to
his DEAD DOG Sampson and tara o. aka tee done to her
DEAD DOGS Summer and Tyson and Robert Crim did to
his DEAD DOG Fritz The Wonder Dog.

DIDN'T YOU, chrisman.

And NHOWE you're gonna PISS an MOAN abHOWET it
and pass the CRYIN towel and get SYMPATHY from
the rest of these miserable lying dog abusing
punk thug coward MENTAL CASES who JERK CHOKE
SHOCK BRIBE CRATE INTIMIDATE and MURDER their
own DEAD DOGS JUST LIKE HOWE YOU DONE???

NOT HERE on The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Forums, you AIN'T, chrisman... NOT withHOWET bein
IDENTIFIED EXXXPOSED and DISCREDITED as the miserable rotten
lying dog abusing punk thug coward you are.

HOWEver, you're in EXXXCELLENT company, chrisman.

Doesn't take much to teach the wrong lesson. I'll
even show you HOWE you mishandled Usul and HOWE
COME your dog turned on to ATTACK that innocent
CHILD who only wanted to say "HOWEDY DOGGY!".

You done EXACTLY what ATTACK DOG TRAINERS DO
when they're training a ATTACK dog to ATTACK.

> It makes me sad

INDEED? The Amazing Puppy Wizard had been TELLIN
YOU that you was HURTIN your dog with that pronged
spiked pinch choke collar but YOU DIDN'T LIKE THAT.

Tell your SAD story to ed w of PET LOSS dot COIN.
He's GLAD you MURDERED your own DEAD DOG on accHOWENT
of THAT'S HOWE HE MAKES HIS LIVIN you freakin imbecile.

Chrisman Dinnan (broco...@earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: HOW DO YOU GET P.B.'S TO STOP PULLING?
Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.pitbull
Date: 2000/02/23

I use a pinch collar on both my dogs. A choke chain
is NOT the way to go with these dogs and I've even
heard that using a chock chain on a dog that pulls
incessantly can cause damage.

Chrisman

> because I¹m not sure you knew,

HE KNEW, you freakin imbecile! It was HIS NECK
you was jerkin and choking you freakin dog abusing
simpleton!

Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.pitbull
From: Chrisman Dinnan <broco...@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 23:39:43 GMT

Subject: Usul groweled at a kid...

It's been a little while, so perhaps a refresher is in order...

Usul is male. fixed, three years old, a Rossman/McCoy dog
who, despite previous claims to the contrary, is a dog of
questionable breeding. I've had him since he was five weeks
old, he has been loved, pampered, and socialized with people
and other animals.

When Usul was around 2years old, my Bull Terrier "Happy" died.

Usul went through a profound change and seemed to loose all
of his confidence. He began to act overly wary of strangers,
and anything that made loud noise, like skateboards, rollerblades,
kids screaming and running around and the like.

Since this time I have worked to help rebuild his confidence
with various activities and continued socialization. He's
gotten better, he's a great dog in almost every conceivable
way, but he simply is too skittish.

This evening it was dark, not black, but dark. A father
had his two kids with him. His little girl wanted to pet
the doggy and was not about to listen to her dad tell her no.

I could tell Usul was not comfortable with being approached
by this so I told the little girl no! She approached anyway,
I put Usul in a sit, the little girl raised her hand, and Usul
growled.

Not a viscous "I'm gonna attack" type growl, a low
"Leave Me Alone" type growl. Nonetheless, my dog,
my pitbull dog who I wanted to make an ambassador
for the breed, growled at a kid.

I must say, I did not anticipate having to deal
with this level of skittishness.

My Bull Terrier was unflappable.

Nothing ever got him upset and meeting people
seemed to be the purpose for which he existed.

Anyone else had, or having problems like this??

I would appreciate the advise of some of the more
knowledgeable people in this group.

Thanks

Chrisman

> just how much you were loved,

Well, you SHORE got a FUNNY way of SHOWEIN your LOVE, chrisman!

From: Chrisman Dinnan <broco...@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 00:46:33 GMT
Subject: Back in town...

Hey guys/gals,

Just wanted to say hello and that I'm back up and posting.
A few things have changed since I was here last...I thought
we banished Jerry Howe, what's goin' on??

Chrisman

> and how much we adored you.

Yeah, you jerked and choked him on your pronged
spiked pinch choke collar and made him hyperactive
and paranoid. See The Amazing Puppy Wizard's post
"Fear Of Thunder And Pronged Collars" and you'll
understand HOWE that works... good buddy.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard won the coveted "Full
Canvass Jacket" Award for that post... just a
little brag on myself a bit.

Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.pitbull
From: Chrisman Dinnan <broco...@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 22:06:15 GMT
Subject: Re: Back in town...

Last time he was here somebody posted his home
address and pictures of his house, that seemed
to shut him up for a while...

Chrisman

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!

> In life there are decisions that have to be made,

Without any INFORMATION, just your WEAK FEARFUL MIND
working for your colossal defective ego to compensate
for your massive inferiority complexes.

Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.pitbull
From: Chrisman Dinnan <broco...@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 00:12:26 GMT

Subject: Re: Back in town...

Nice to hear from you!!

We should have a secret NG, the title for which
would be completely indiscriminate, nothing to
do with dogs. Only certain individuals would
know where to go.

Jerry is a plague on all dog related NG's.
I fear that this might be our only escape....

Chrisman

> I hope you understand and will forgive me,

You mishandled abused and MURDERED your own DEAD DOG
because you lacked INFORMATION and the INTELLIGENCE
to use The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual The Amazing Puppy Wizard REPEATEDLY
offered you.

"Please don't hesitate to ask if there is anything
about this breed that you don't understand. Jeff
and I, as well as millions of others have to do a
better job of telling the best kept secret in the
animal Kingdome...."Pitbulls are sweet and loving
pets, lovers and protectors of children, kissers
of faces, waggers of tails." Chrisman

> I hope this pain will fade.

Not if The Amazing Puppy Wizard got
anything to do with it, it won't.

> Could I have done more,

You got CHEDDAR like tara o. aka tee likes
to give her DEAD DOGS when she MURDERS the
FOR THE SAME REASON?

You did enough don't you think?

You MURDERED your own DEAD DOG JUST LIKE HOWE so
many other DOG LOVERS here have done cause you
WANTED TO HURT and INTIMIDATE him like the rest
of these mentally ill lying dog abusing punk thug
cowards PREFER.

You're a DOG ABUSER chrisman, you're not a dog lover.

> was it me,

Look around and who do you see MURDERED your
POSTER PIT BULL besides YOU, chrisman? Not
nobody else there holdin your dog down to
KILL IT but YOU.

> was this fault?

You mean "was this *MY* fault?"

Take a real good look, ain't nobody standin
there holdin your dog down to KILL HIM but
YOU, ya miserable coward.

> Into this open wound these thoughts are as salt.

You're really breakin my heart. In forty years
of specializing in temperament problems The
Amazing Puppy Wizard ain't NEVER had to KILL a
dog, and HE get the worst cases HE can find.

> Pitbulls are special

A DOG IS A DOG you freakin moron.

What makes your Pit Bulls SO SPECIAL is
their NEED to be HURT and INTIMIDATED
by DOG LOVERS like you and the rest of
these miserable lying dog abusing punk
thug coward MENTAL CASES.

> and I will fight in the street with
> anyone who would disagree,

And you'll MURDER YOUR OWN BEAST FRIEND
faster than any dog hater would cause
you're a Pit Bull LOVER and you want to
PROTECT the reputation of these fine
little big hearted fighting dogs who
ONLY attack other innocent defenseless
dumb critters but YOU EXXXPECT THAT and
PROTECT them from mixin it up with other
dogs so long as they don't scare YOU.

Then they're DEAD MEAT.

> but never again will we spend time on
> the couch watching football,

Well, yeah! That'll freakin HAPPEN when you
fuckin MURDER your own DEAD DOG, ya nit wit!

> just you and me.

Save it chrisman. The Amazing Puppy Wizard don't
think Usul is interested in your bullshit. It was
YOU who fukin MURDERED him on accHOWENT of YOU
COULDN'T STOP JERKIN and CHOKING HIM.

> When editing my film you¹d come and lick my arm,

Stupid dog. That'll learn him, eh?

He picked the wrong PAL to TRUST.

> Oit¹s time to play¹ you¹d say, it was you
> and me against the world, no one dared
> stand in our way.

You MURDERED YOUR OWN DEAD DOG, good buddy.

You got a lot of nerve cryin in your beer.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard gave you the information
and the opportunity to use it, and you turned it
down.

You WANTED to handle and train your dog with
FEAR FORCE and INTIMIDATION so you'd LOOK like
a BIG SHOT and you got what The Amazing Puppy
Wizard been tellin you you'd get, you fukin idiot.

Your DEAD DOG Usul deserved better than you
and your empathy and your pronged spiked pinch
choke collar.

Did you shock him too?

Maybe that would have HEELPED???

> My words are horribly inadequate,

Oh, they're adequate... for a DOG LOVER.

Not for you.

You're makin a mockery outta it.

You're the miserable s.o.b. that did everything
you could to ignore and DENY the fact you was
abusing your dog by the way you was handling him.

You didn't like me for tellin you that, so you
chose to ignore me and hurt and kill your dog
as I've been warnin you about.

And now you got what I been tellin ya was comin.

Surprise, surprise, surprise!

> everything is wrong;

Yeah, I been tellin ya that all along, but you
PREFERED to call me a liar and a fraud. So you
got your just desserts. I only wish he'd have
bit your goddamned throat out for ya first.

> nothing is the same since you have gone.

You'll get over it someHOWE. I'll look in my
koehler book for some tips for ya... You any
good with knots?

> The way you loved us was beyond compare

Yeah, and you done good by him allrighty.

> the tender kisses and the hugs are things I will miss,

Sorry to disappoint you, but those 'hugs' was
a SYMPTOM of ANXIETY... not affection. I've
written about that before when someone else
was asking about "hugs."

> I long for your face to see just one more time,

Go visit where he's at, if they'll let you in.
They mite not. I wouldn't allow you to bother
him in doggy heaven. But check it out, you'll
find out when you get there, eh?

Meanwhile go to ed w's PET LOSS dot COIN and
give him fifty bucks and you'll get a nice
Rainbow Bridge Tee Shirt and his PROMISE to
PURSUE The Amazing Puppy Wizard for teachin
folks HOWE to pupperly handle and train their
dogs so they don't gotta MURDER THEM LIKE YOU
DONE to your own DEAD DOG Usul, chrisman <{); ~ ) >

> one more hug, just one more kiss.

Your DEAD DOG would be sittin there havin a beer
and watchin football with you right now if you'd
have used my manual... The Amazing Puppy Wizard
specializes in temperament and behavior problems,
and my students dogs ALL LIVE.

> Goodbye sweet Usul,

Shove it. You're the bum who held him down
and murdered him BECAUSE YOU COULDN'T STOP
JERKIN AND CHOKING HIM.

> who would never let us come to harm,

Yeah, you done real good by him. Congratulations,
Graduate Of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method School Of HARD KNOCKS <{); ~ ) >

> goodbye good buddy

Yeah... you're the bum who MURDERED him.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard got no empathy for
you or your pals who'd do the EXACT same thing.

> who was always at my side,

You fixed that but freakin good, didnya?

> goodbye good dog,

You bumped him off cause he was a good dog now, didya?
I don't think you're very intelligent. You kill good
dogs for growling at people and you love bad dogs
that fight with dogs.

Oh, no, I got that wrong AGAIN, didn I?

Let's see, you love good dogs that will kill other dogs,
and you kill good dogs because they growl at people...

Hmm, I train my dogs to growl at people, and they only
growl at the RIGHT people to growl at. I train my dogs
never to growl at dogs and they LIKE that as much as
they like growling at people.

O.K. Now let's look at HOWE COME your DEAD DOG Usul
growled at the kid.. it was because of your HANDLING.

I'll pull up your post detailing the incident and
I'll point out each of the obvious handling errors
that YOU TRAINED your dog Usul to growl, without
realizing it cause you didn't want to use my manual
cause you wanted to enjoy your pronged spiked pinch
choke collar cause it made walking him EZ, didnya...

> the best I ever knew, if I could make you
> understand anything, it would be that I love you.

Yeah, that's HOWE COME you jerked and choked him:
Psst! Lookey here! Here's some quotes and some
methods right outta your koehler book. Think,
IMPROVISE, and WELCOME GRADUATE STUDENTS!!!:

The Koehler Method of Dog Training (1962).
New York: Howell Book Book House(p. 52-53)."

Hanging
"First, the trainer makes certain that the collar
and leash are more than adequate for any jerk or
strain that the dog's most frantic actions could
cause. Then he starts to work the dog deliberately
and fairly to the point where the dog makes his grab.

Before the teeth have reached their target, the dog,
weight permitting, is jerked from the ground. As in
coping with some of the afore-mentioned problems the
dog is suspended in mid-air.

However, to let the biting dog recover his footing
while he still had the strength to renew the attack
would be cruelty. The only justifiable course is
to hold him suspended until he has neither the strength
nor inclination to renew the fight.

When finally it is obvious that he is physically
incapable of expressing his resentment and is
lowered to the ground, he will probably stagger
loop-legged for a few steps, vomit once or twice,
and roll over on his side.

The sight of a dog lying, thick-tongued, on his side,
is not pleasant, but do not let it alarm you

THE REAL "HOOD"

"If your dog is a real "hood" who would regard the
foregoing types of protest as "kid stuff" and would
express his resentment of your efforts by biting,
your problem is difficult -- and pressing.

"Professional trainers often get these extreme problems.
Nearly always the "protest biter" is the handiwork of
a person who, by avoiding situations that the dog might
resent, has nurtured the seeds of rebellion and then
cultivated the resultant growth with under correction.

When these people reap their inevitable and oftentimes
painful harvest, they are ready to avail themselves of
"the cruel trainer" whose advice they may have once
rejected because it was incompatible with the sugary
droolings of mealy-mouthed columnists, breed-ring
biddies, and dog psychologists who, by the broken skins
and broken hearts their misinformation causes, can be
proven guilty of the greatest act of cruelty to animals
since the dawn of time.

"With more genuine compassion for the biting dog than
would ever be demonstrated by those who are "too kind"
to make a correction and certainly with more disregard
for his safety, the professional trainer morally feels
obligated to perform a "major operation."

"Since we are presently concerned with the dog that bites
in resentment of the demands of training, we will set our
example in that situation. (In a later chapter we will
deal with the with the much easier problem of the dog
that bites someone other than his master."

Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.pitbull
From: "Sandra" <sal...@sprint.ca>
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 08:01:11 -0500
Subject: Re: For Usul...

So true Jeff! And well said Jen!

Having been on both sides of the rescue
fence, I see both sides as well!

Just this year we took in a 2 yr old male. He was
a beautiful dog, excellent with our family but a
touch leery of strangers (nothing serious) until
he was introduced.

One day hubby and I were out feeding and he decided
that hubby was the biggest enemy in the world! Lunged,
teeth bared, growling, hackles up, barking...the whole
9 yards!

Good thing hubby was outside the kennel!!

That display right there was enough to make us make
the fatal decision. I went in the kennel with him
not 5 minutes later and he was fine. Hubby came in
and he was also fine.

He was not having a bad day, he was not protecting
his food (he was waiting for it as hubby had the
feed bucket).

"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVERY LEARNING THEORY
model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT. Of curse,
Skinner has never to my knowledge, demonstrated
HOWE we escape the phenomenon that an expected
reward not received is experienced as a punishment
and can produce extensive and persistent aggression
(Azrin et al, 1966)."

He made a one way trip to the vet. The prior
owner called shortly after and not really wanting
to share the news with her, I flubbed (bad me!)
But I did ask about the behaviour he showed that
day and she informed me THEN(instead of when she
brought him here!) that he is listed as a dangerous
dog in the next city because of a bad bite to
someone!!!!

Imagine that!!

Someone passing off their problem dog without the
real story to someone unsuspecting! Were it not
for our experience with the breed, someone may
very well have gotten seriously hurt AGAIN from
this dog!!

And 2 yrs ago I put down my first CH bitch. Saved
her from being poisoned, and just a few short months
later, her wiring went bad and she started lunging
at people. People she knew and people she didn't.

I took her to the vet in tears with my youngest son
hugging her to have her put down. Vet tried talking
me out of it, gave me options.

I gave him one!

Afterwards he said that he sees all too often the
family with a dog who bit after the bite has already
happened.

If only people would open their eyes to some of their
dogs' behaviour and take responsibility there would
be fewer bites. Sandra

"Jeff ©(*§*)©" <pitsaregreatREMOVE-.-T...@yahoo.com>
wrote in message news:ra288.106$Qf2.133927@news.uswest.net...

> Maybe there's a miscommunication problem here (which I
> notice happens often with newbies on this ng. We've
> had waaaaay to many trolls here for our own good).
> Let us agree on some basics. Some dogs are genuinely nuts,
> in the Jeffrey Dahmer sort of way. These dogs are a danger
> to their own families, these dogs can attack anyone, anytime.

> Then there are other dogs that are just not too caring of
> strangers, different things set them off and can make them
> less than safe in public but are still perfectly safe for
> the family.

> The former is rather rare, and I highly doubt that Sancho
> would keep such a dog alive, in reality it really would be
> infeasible and to no one's benefit (this dog really wouldn't
> have any contact with anyone else).

> OTOH, there are many dogs that just plain aren't too
> friendly to unfamiliar faces. Happens with APBTs just
> like with all other breeds (though to a far lesser extent).

> I'll agree with Sancho that if one can care for such a dog
> (its not dangerous to the family) then they certainly should
> take care of such a dog but maintain caution (maintain proper
> facilities, etc).

> If they cannot, preferably finding a home that will care
> for them is preferable, perhaps a family that is seeking
> these traits. It's a question of how much one values each
> individual dog.

> I value each dog very highly, I suspect Sancho does as
> well. When you look at it from the perspective of a
> rescue though, you come to the conclusion that there
> are too many better dogs that are being put to sleep
> so why save this one.
> This is probably why the two will have problems seeing
> eye to eye. I view it from a very familial perspective.

> I have a responsibility to my dog, I don't have a
> responsibility to those dogs (yes, I have been involved
> in rescue for years).

> Anyway, flame away. At least we'll get some good traffic
> on this ng (other than from you know who), which will be
> a pleasant change.

> Just to elaborate: I do agree that if one can't guarantee
> an APBT a decent amount of human contact then that dog
> simply will not be happy. Period.
> Finally, I'm not going to refer to Chrisman's specifically
> until he feels comfortable talking about it (or unless
> completely pressed).

> Jeff

Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.pitbull
From: "Igloo" <spamcatc...@att.net>
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 18:27:20 -0000
Subject: Re: For Usul...

> her wiring went bad

What is this supposed to mean?? Are dogs an
electrical circuit that corrodes?

You have no business owning dogs.

> Vet tried talking me out of it, gave me options.

And why didn't you take them? The vet knows a lot
more about "wiring" than you do.

You killed the dog for no other reason than
your mumbo-jumbo psychology.

Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.pitbull
From: "Sandra" <sal...@sprint.ca>
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 16:06:44 -0500
Subject: Re: For Usul...

FYI...when a dog gets poisoned and they survive, they
don't always keep the same temperment as they previously
had.

Sometimes they suffer mild brain damage not to mention
other damage done internally to various organs.

And if my vet thanked me for making the right decision,
then I think he not only condoned my decision, but agreed
with it!

If you think putting my bitch down wasn't one of the
hardest things I've ever done in my life with dogs,
then you are seriously an ASSHOLE!!!

Until you've walked a mile in someone else's
RESPONSIBLE shoes...don't chastize anyone!!!!

As for me having "no business owning dogs"...I think it's
you who has no business. 13 years with this breed has
taught me alot...not just about the breed, but about all
dogs, their behaviour and the idiots who think they know
it all! Like you!

Sandra

Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.pitbull
From: <bluen...@tcsn.net>
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 10:29:11 -0800
Subject: Re: For Usul...

in article y6E78.192317$vH6.13263...@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com,
#003 at elsan...@juno.com wrote on 2/4/02 2:41 PM:

Yappety Yappety YAP YAP from a complete idiot who
has obviously failed to learn Rule #2............

Thou shalt not suffer a maneater to live............

> why didn't you call me a fuckhead?
> --
> sancho

Because you're several notches below the intellectual
level of the average fuckhead , that's why.

The average fuckhead is able to figure out that a dog
that goes after kids completely without rhyme or reason
is a liability both to the individual owner and to the
breed as a whole.

Chrisman exercised the ultimate responsibility, to
himself, the dog and to the breed as a whole.

Now crawl off his back you indescribable piece of
nattering detritus.

And fuck off , don't wait to do so. fuck off now
while the time is ripe, almost as ripe as your bullshit.

Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.pitbull
From: "Igloo" <spamcatc...@att.net>
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 22:49:42 -0000
Subject: Re: For Usul...

You are so crude and ignorant I am surprised sancho
continues to waste his time debating with you.

He made some very valid points, and all you can do is
type shit, assholes, ass and other profanities.

You probably fancy yourself as a macho tough guy, but
you come across as an illiterate.

Newsgroups: alt.animals.dog
From: Chrisman Dinnan <broco...@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 00:23:58 GMT

Subject: Re: Help with leash training AmStaff

> "Wendy Kubas" <wcku...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:13092-3BEB0FFE-153@storefull-241.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> > Hi,My name is Wendy, I'm new to this
> > disscussion board and webtv so please
> > bear with me. My problem is this...
> I would take him to puppy obedience. It's
> a great help and gives you a good foundation.

Wendy,

I have a two and a half year old American Pitbull
Terrier and, to a degree, I can sympathize with
the issues that you are having.

The good news is, as I'm sure you already know,
this is a great, loving and affectionate breed;
handsome loyal, trustworthy. Watch them around
other dogs though...

Anyway, pulling is part of this breeds personality.
To a certain extent, it would kinda be like taking
the white out of rice...see my point??

Puppy classes is a great idea. This breed is
very intelligent and very trainable.

With a kind but firm hand you can mold this dog
into THE ideal pet.

If you don't mind me asking, what research did you
do on this breed before your purchase??

I only seek to ascertain your level of knowledge
about this breed so I don't give advice that you
already know.

Good Luck!!

Chrisman

DOG TRAININ AIN'T LUCK, DOG ABUSERS.

Punishment Deranges Behavior.
"NO!" Does NOT Have Any Behavioral Function
EXCEPT
To DERANGE Behaviors.

Here's professor dermer pryor:

From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST

And how do we know this aspect of his
advice is right?

Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.

(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
ill-mannered, or just plain ill.­),

--Marshall

"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.

BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!

That's INSANE. Ain't it.

Here's professor dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:

"We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People Should
Come To Their Senses And Support Your Valuable Work.
God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall Dermer,
Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI.

From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<*.@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM

Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,

I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.

You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent­,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts ­to
alert the world to animal abuse.

We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.

Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?

In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.

--Marshall Dermer

Subject: < BEFORE -> "Jerry, You filthy, Unctuous,
No Good Charlatan,"

< AFTER -> "Thank You Jerry For Putting Up With
A Constant Barrage Of Really Infantile
Crap At The Hands Of Supposedly Adult
Dog Lovers.

'Naive' Is Believing You Can Terrorize
A Dog Into Good Behavior," Robert Crim.

>Subject: Re: Fritz---a retrospective
>Date: 02/05/1999
>Author: Robert Crim <fritzg...@earthlink.net>
> You filthy, unctuous, no good charlatan. If you had
> any idea of what dogs and dog people were about
> you would realize the depths of the absolute loathing
> and contempt I hold for you right now. Were it not
> for the blessed distance and anonymity that the internet
> gives us from the scummy likes of you, I would probably
> be in a jail cell right now for turning you into the pile
> of shit you really are

Hey, Howe, you really are a wacko, eh?

Crim wrote this about *YOU,* you insipid piece of cow dung!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman

=====================

> On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:24:15 -0700, dogsnus

<"Terri"@cyberhighway> Wrote:>

> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> come forward and actually believe in his training manual.
Robert Crim writes:

I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope,
understood enough of the manual and it's counterparts by
John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
and use it.

This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.

The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.

To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.

Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use their real
names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.

"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.

Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.

> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
> actually admit to buying and having success with his
> little black box.

I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.

> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
> to him! LOL!

I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.

>Terri

Yes it was, and that is sad.

Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)

===========

Crim wrote THAT about *YOU,* tommy, "you insipid piece of cow dung!"

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@mail.com>
Subject: Alleged Professors of Animal Behavior
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:50:51 -0400

Dear Jerry, I paged through some of the "dog business"
and was astonished at the low quality of opinions arising
from professors of behavior analysis.

I had the very great privilege of meeting Sam Corson
(Pavlov's last Ph.D. student) and his dogs at Ohio
University. I even got to spend a night at Sam's house.

There is no question but that you are a spiritual brother
to Corson and to Pavlov, both of whom knew that the dog's
great capacity for love was the key to shaping doggie behavior.

Paradoxical reward and paradoxical fixing of attention are
both well documented Pavlovian techniques. Even so humorless
a chap as B.F. Skinner taught students like the Breland's whose
"The Misbehavior of Organisms" demonstrate the utility of your
methods and their deep roots in scientific (as opposed to
commercial) psychology.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
you may find my resume in Who's Who in
Science and Technology


Alpha©
2005-11-29 22:02:25 EST
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 02:08:46 -0500, "Diane Johnson"
<*o@alltel.net> wrote:

>
>
>
>
>This is not to sound condesending, but what is the problem with you pit
>lovers? My local pound will not put a pit up for adoption. They are
>allways put down. Lets keep in minde the fact that pits are bread of fight
>and enjoy killing.
>
>Just like the 3 pits who nearly tore my neighbors dog apart just because he
>strayed to close to the dog house. They did not bark at the dog before it
>got too close to their reach. They didn't warn that dog that it was too
>close. They were all on 15 foot chains when they snatched the little
>terrior up and carried it away like lions would its prey. 2 other neighbors
>had to risk themselves to save the poor dog from those vicious beasts with
>what ever they can grab.
>
>I love how you idealistic pit lovers like to boast that pits act how you
>rais them. If that is true then tell me something. Why did my friend (who
>loves dogs) get bit in the face (unprovoked and for no reason) by a pit who
>was given all the love in the world and never once got beaten or mishandled
>a day in its life? That dog never showed any agressive tendencies before
>that. Can you consider that dog to be stable? My friend had to get
>stitches and was nearly traumatised to the point of fearing other dogs. The
>owner of that dog is lucky he didn't get sued.
>
>Why do you pit lovers think that raising is everything and genetics play no
>role in personality or temperment? Don't you know that a dog behavior is
>influenced by the way it was bread? Don't you know that boarder collies
>instinctivly nip at the ankles of joggers because they were bread to heard
>sheep that way? How could you possibly intrust your lives to a dog that is
>programmed to kill for fun? Even if the statistics are small, you are still
>living with an animal that is fully capable of suddenly hurting you, your
>child, or a neighbors child, ect for possibly no reason.
>
>One more question. How do you sleep at night?
>
How about educating yourself on a subject rather than spewing BS.

I sleep very well with my fur baby Pit at my feet.
--
Bob & Trouble

Visit our forums!
http://dog-forums.net

Email: Remove the ©

Michael A. Ball
2005-11-30 09:54:56 EST
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 02:08:46 -0500, "Diane Johnson" <tabletopphoto@alltel.net> wrote:

>This is not to sound condesending, but what is the problem with you pit
>lovers? My local pound will not put a pit up for adoption. They are
>allways put down. Lets keep in minde the fact that pits are bread of fight
>and enjoy killing.
>
>How do you sleep at night?

"Ignorance..."? The qualified has spoken. LOL

The local shelter didn't put a pit up for adoption, for about 20 years, then one day
someone realized that a lot of great pits were being killed--not because they were bad,
vicious or even ugly: just because they were pits. Now, if a pit can pass a pretty
thorough temperament test, they are put up for adoption. But one still has to get a key to
enter their run. On the other hand, if you're a Chow Chow, my favorite breed, you might as
well commit suicide before arriving at the shelter. Period.

Pits "enjoy killing"? Somehow, I doubt that. Do you have any scientific documentation to
substantiate that claim? Actually, I believe that humans are the only specie that "enjoys"
killing. I often fantasize about how I would dispatch a woods arsonist.

Its no secret that Pits are not for everyone; but some people shouldn't have any sort of
dog at all! I find that the average Pit is more reliable, more trustworthy, than the
average human. For every nit wit that's trying to perpetuate aggressive Pits, surely there
is someone, somewhere trying to do the right thing.

As for "unprovoked" attacks, I can only say that failing to identify the provocation
definitely does not make the attack "unprovoked"!

You asked, "How do you sleep at night?" I always rest better after playing with a Pit at
the shelter. They are so appreciative of affection.

Your passionate writing is noteworthy, but the substance of your message, well, is absent.


Play with fire! Zildjan drum sticks

Alpha©
2005-11-30 19:32:36 EST
On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 09:54:56 -0500, Michael A. Ball
<*n@wireco.net> wrote:

>On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 02:08:46 -0500, "Diane Johnson" <tabletopphoto@alltel.net> wrote:
>
>>This is not to sound condesending, but what is the problem with you pit
>>lovers? My local pound will not put a pit up for adoption. They are
>>allways put down. Lets keep in minde the fact that pits are bread of fight
>>and enjoy killing.
>>
>>How do you sleep at night?
>
>"Ignorance..."? The qualified has spoken. LOL
>
>The local shelter didn't put a pit up for adoption, for about 20 years, then one day
>someone realized that a lot of great pits were being killed--not because they were bad,
>vicious or even ugly: just because they were pits. Now, if a pit can pass a pretty
>thorough temperament test, they are put up for adoption. But one still has to get a key to
>enter their run. On the other hand, if you're a Chow Chow, my favorite breed, you might as
>well commit suicide before arriving at the shelter. Period.
>
>Pits "enjoy killing"? Somehow, I doubt that. Do you have any scientific documentation to
>substantiate that claim? Actually, I believe that humans are the only specie that "enjoys"
>killing. I often fantasize about how I would dispatch a woods arsonist.
>
>Its no secret that Pits are not for everyone; but some people shouldn't have any sort of
>dog at all! I find that the average Pit is more reliable, more trustworthy, than the
>average human. For every nit wit that's trying to perpetuate aggressive Pits, surely there
>is someone, somewhere trying to do the right thing.
>
>As for "unprovoked" attacks, I can only say that failing to identify the provocation
>definitely does not make the attack "unprovoked"!
>
>You asked, "How do you sleep at night?" I always rest better after playing with a Pit at
>the shelter. They are so appreciative of affection.
>
>Your passionate writing is noteworthy, but the substance of your message, well, is absent.
>
>
>Play with fire! Zildjan drum sticks

BRAVO!!! Well said Michael Ball :-)
--
Bob & Trouble

Visit our forums!
http://dog-forums.net

Email: Remove the ©

L Bailey
2005-12-03 04:19:04 EST
thats right ur ignorance in unquestionable if u came 2 the pitbull msgboard
where people like pitbulls 2 complain about them go some where else and
do it u haters dont know nothing about pitbulls go some where else and write
about ur Bull SHit on how pits r evil and stop spamming r board with ur
hate people come here 4 go info not ur bull shit lies and fear of
pit dogs go some where else dog nazis well ur at it look up the top 3
biters pits arnt even on that list yes i know there on the top 3 deadlyest
dogs behide 1 or 2 other breeds but overall pitbulls arnt even on the top10
most likey 2 bite u list so STOP ur Lies there r less manbiters by %
in pitbulls then most other breeds ur more like 2 be bitin by ur beloved
black lab or germansheard then a pit i would say that pitbulls need the
least amout of work in the man biting cur deparment then any other breed
man biters have been culled out harder then any other breed know 2 man i
think u need 2 look at other breed where improments could realy be made
L
<*y@HushMail.Com> wrote in
message news:1133300961.397182.183620@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
HOWEDY Diane,

Diane Johnson wrote:
> This is not to sound condesending, but what is the
> problem with you pit lovers?

THAT'S EZ, Diane. HOWER Pit Bull Lovers treat their
fear aggressive little dogs with SPECIAL CARE on
accHOWENT of they NEED SPECIAL CARE <{); ~ ) >

> My local pound will not put a pit up for adoption.
> They are allways put down.

LIKE THAT, FOR EXXXAMPLE.

> Lets keep in minde the fact that pits are bread

You mean Pita bread? Or do you mean fightin BRED Pit Bulls?

> of fight and enjoy killing.

THAT'S the pupaganda put HOWET by the Pit Bull DOG LOVERS
who jerk choke shock intimidate crate and MURDER their own
fear aggressive dogs on their first grHOWEL at a human.

Let's keep in mind A DOG IS A DOG. That dog abusing
mentally ill cowards breed LITTLE dogs to fight in
the pit as a GENTLEMAN'S SPORT doesn't mean the DOG
is viciHOWES, it's the MENTALLY ILL ABUSER who is.

> Just like the 3 pits who nearly tore my neighbors dog
> apart just because he strayed to close to the dog house.

Dogs are terrortorial by NATURE. What was your neighbor's
dog doin OFF of his own TERRORTORY?

> They did not bark at the dog before it got too close to their reach.

The same same will happen with ANY dog CHAINED. It's called
"CHANED DOG SYNDROME" and for THAT reason chaining dogs has
become ILLEGAL in several states in the U.S.

> They didn't warn that dog that it was too close.

Of curse not. That'd chase away the INTRUDER.

> They were all on 15 foot chains when they snatched the little
> terrior up and carried it away like lions would its prey.

THAT AIN'T typical of the Pit Bull, it's typical of ANY CHAINED DOG.

> 2 other neighbors had to risk themselves to save the poor dog
> from those vicious beasts with what ever they can grab.

That was KINDLY of them but the dogs WAS on their own pupperty.

> I love how you idealistic pit lovers like to boast
> that pits act how you rais them.

That's true of ANY dog, Diane. It's the Pit Bull Lovers
who jerk and choke and shock and surgically mutilate
and murder their SPECIAL breed of dog.

> If that is true then tell me something. Why did my friend
> (who loves dogs) get bit in the face (unprovoked and for no
> reason) by a pit who was given all the love in the world and
> never once got beaten or mishandled a day in its life?

Dogs DON'T DO NUTHIN for NO REASON. Perhaps if you
give the DETAILS we can figger HOWET HOWE COME.

> That dog never showed any agressive tendencies before that.

Perhaps it had a BRAIN TUMOR?

> Can you consider that dog to be stable?

You'd have to give the DETAILS to figger HOWET HOWE COME he attacked.

> My friend had to get stitches and was nearly traumatised
> to the point of fearing other dogs. The owner of that dog
> is lucky he didn't get sued.

Yeah.

> Why do you pit lovers think that raising is everything and
> genetics play no role in personality or temperment?

Oh, on accHOWENT of IT IS.

> Don't you know that a dog behavior is influenced by the way it was bread?

You mean like HOWE some BREADS rise and others don't? Like Pita BREAD?

> Don't you know that boarder collies instinctivly nip at the ankles
> of joggers because they were bread to heard sheep that way?

Don't you know THAT is the visual oral reflex and
IT can be EXXXTINGUISHED in a couple minutes?

> How could you possibly intrust your lives to a dog that
> is programmed to kill for fun?

ALL AGGRESSION IS FEAR. ALL FEAR IS CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.

> Even if the statistics are small, you are still living
> with an animal that is fully capable of suddenly hurting
> you, your child, or a neighbors child, ect for possibly
> no reason.

Oh? Sez you. THAT'S INSANE.

> One more question. How do you sleep at night?

With a dictionary as a pillow...

Here's EVERY THING you gotta know abHOWET Pit Bull Dogs:

HOWEDY Kate,

kate wrote:
> I'm a new (and somewhat reluctant) owner of a pit bull.

Congrats!

> I'm not sure this is the right place to ask,

WELCOME to The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Forums. I'm Jerry Howe, The Amazing Puppy
Wizard.

HERE'S YOUR OWN FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual:

<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>

http://www.irishdogs.ie/Information/Wits_End_Dog_Training.pdf

> but I'm giving it a shot.

Good for you. FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS PRECISELY and
ASK The Amazing Puppy Wizard if you need any additional
FREE HEELP and you got a FRIEND FOR LIFE. OtherWIZE you'll
end up like the rest of these lying dog abusing punk
thug coward mental cases who BLAME THE DOG for THEIR
temperament and behavior problems and jerk choke shock
surgically mutilate and MURDER their own fear aggressive
hyperactive HOWETA CON-TROLL dogs and LIE abHOWET it
to protect their own SENSITIVE FEELINS.

> Can pit bulls

A dog is a dog. Pit Bulls ain't as tall as Great
Danes nor as fast as Grey HOWENDS but other than
build and fur, a dog is STILL a DOG.

> play with other dogs off leash?

Pit Bulls GOT a BAD REPUTATION on accHOWENT of
the lying dog abusing punk thug coward mentally
ill Pit Bull FANCIERS who TREAT their big hearted
fighting dogs DIFFERENTLY on accHOWENT of they
don't know HOWE to pupperly handle and train them.

> Can they ever be off leash if not in a fenced area?

Of curse. Didn't you ever watch "The Little Rascals"
on T.V.? That dog Petey was a Pit Bull and he was
NEVER on leash and always played with and protected
the Gang.

> With all the media hype about pits,

That media HYPE is generated by the Pit Bull
Fanciers who MURDER their own dogs on their
first grHOWEL at a human being on accHOWENT
of they're DOG ABUSING PUNK THUG COWARDS.

> and the different rescue websites I've visited,

Those so calle rescue websites are RUN BY the
SAME DOG ABUSING PUNK THUG COWARDS who TREAT
their Pit Bull dogs with SPECIAL CARE so's not
to cause their favorite breed a BAD REPUTATION
on accHOWENT of THEY CAN'T TRAIN THEIR DOGS NOT
TO FIGHT on accHOWENT of ALL AGGRESSION IS FEAR
and ALL FEAR is CAUSED BY MISHANDLING like jerking
and choking and shocking and locking them in boxes
and surgically sexually mutilating them.

> it sounds like you never want them to become overstimulated.

Dogs BECOME "hyperactive" on accHOWENT of the
DOG ABUSERS and PARTICULARLY HOWER Pit Bull
LOVERS HURT and INTIMIDATE their dogs.

> If true,

EVERY THING the EXXXPERTS tell us abHOWET dogs
nd PARTICULARLY the Pit BUll is BULL fabricated
by DOG ABUSING PUNK THUG COWARD MENTAL CASES like
you're writing to here on The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Forums.

> how do you keep a hyper dog from becoming over stimulated?

You EXXXTINGUISH their "HYPERACTIVITY" NEARLY INSTANTLY by
NOT DOIN what the DOG LOVERS tell us to do to HOWER dogs.

> Kate

Chrisman Dinnan wrote:

By "Toughness" I mean that which makes pitbulls
different from a border collie for example. An
owner who has not researched properly must be
informed about various aspects of the breed and
toughness is definatly one of them.

Sure, my dog is pretty much a sissy, raised him
from five weeks old, he took naps in the palm of
my hand while I rubbed his belly and talked to
him, got him that young because I wanted him and
my Bull Terrier (also a sissy) to get along, and
they do, but make no mistake about it, where the
normal dog may bark at a squirel my pitbull "Usul"
(means: the strenght at the base of the pillar)
damm near shimmy up that tree and will bloody his
mouth trying to bite branches to better his position.

It is this determination, their tender and thoughtful
expressions, thier wide, beautiful heads, the purpose
for which the breed originated, thier athleticism, the
gentle manner in which they can take you entire forearm
in their massive jaws and never bruse you when you play,
thier bad gass, TUG-OF-WAR, and "toughness" that sets
them appart from other breeds.

Toughness is a virtue, we should not be
afraid to mention it in this newsgroup.


A Dog Lover's Eulogy To His BEAST Friend:

For Usul... + Congratulations, Graduate Of
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
School Of HARD KNOCKS -
Think, IMPROVISE, And WELCOME GRADUATE STUDENTS!!!:

Hello chrisman,

"Chrisman Dinnan" <broco...@earthlink.net>
news:B87BB320.8DA%brocolli@earthlink.net...

> Something is wrong with the world and I just can\ufffdt
> stand it anymore, no longer will I be greeted by
> your waging tail when I come in the door.

Oh, well that's EZ to figger HOWET, chrisman!

That's on account of you freakin MURDERED your own dog
cause you mishandled him like the rest of your dog lover
pals do with their incessant penchant for crates bribes
pronged spiked pinch choke collars and shock devices.

What the heel do you EXPECT?

That's HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy Wizard DON'T
USE use those "TOOLS" which make your dog THINK
you are freakin G-D, chrisman.

> Your presence is missed, I just thought you should know,

You MURDERED your own dog on accHOWENT of you
COULDN'T STOP JERKING and CHOKING IT on your
pronged spiked pinch choke collar JUST LIKE
HOWE The Amazing Puppy Wizard SEZ YOU WOULD.

DIDN'T YOU, you sorry pathetic dog abusing coward.

> I would have given anything just so you didn\ufffdt have to go.

Yeah. Everything but STOP JERKING and CHOKING your
dog to make you FEEL like freakin G-D you miserable
doubletalkin dog abusin LUNATIC. You REFUSED to learn
HOWE to handle him puperly.

You TRAINED your dog to growl at kids cause you HURT
and INTIMIDATED him just like steve walker done to
his DEAD DOG Sampson and tara o. aka tee done to her
DEAD DOGS Summer and Tyson and Robert Crim did to
his DEAD DOG Fritz The Wonder Dog.

DIDN'T YOU, chrisman.

And NHOWE you're gonna PISS an MOAN abHOWET it
and pass the CRYIN towel and get SYMPATHY from
the rest of these miserable lying dog abusing
punk thug coward MENTAL CASES who JERK CHOKE
SHOCK BRIBE CRATE INTIMIDATE and MURDER their
own DEAD DOGS JUST LIKE HOWE YOU DONE???

NOT HERE on The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Forums, you AIN'T, chrisman... NOT withHOWET bein
IDENTIFIED EXXXPOSED and DISCREDITED as the miserable rotten
lying dog abusing punk thug coward you are.

HOWEver, you're in EXXXCELLENT company, chrisman.

Doesn't take much to teach the wrong lesson. I'll
even show you HOWE you mishandled Usul and HOWE
COME your dog turned on to ATTACK that innocent
CHILD who only wanted to say "HOWEDY DOGGY!".

You done EXACTLY what ATTACK DOG TRAINERS DO
when they're training a ATTACK dog to ATTACK.

> It makes me sad

INDEED? The Amazing Puppy Wizard had been TELLIN
YOU that you was HURTIN your dog with that pronged
spiked pinch choke collar but YOU DIDN'T LIKE THAT.

Tell your SAD story to ed w of PET LOSS dot COIN.
He's GLAD you MURDERED your own DEAD DOG on accHOWENT
of THAT'S HOWE HE MAKES HIS LIVIN you freakin imbecile.

Chrisman Dinnan (broco...@earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: HOW DO YOU GET P.B.'S TO STOP PULLING?
Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.pitbull
Date: 2000/02/23

I use a pinch collar on both my dogs. A choke chain
is NOT the way to go with these dogs and I've even
heard that using a chock chain on a dog that pulls
incessantly can cause damage.

Chrisman

> because I\ufffdm not sure you knew,

HE KNEW, you freakin imbecile! It was HIS NECK
you was jerkin and choking you freakin dog abusing
simpleton!

Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.pitbull
From: Chrisman Dinnan <broco...@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 23:39:43 GMT

Subject: Usul groweled at a kid...

It's been a little while, so perhaps a refresher is in order...

Usul is male. fixed, three years old, a Rossman/McCoy dog
who, despite previous claims to the contrary, is a dog of
questionable breeding. I've had him since he was five weeks
old, he has been loved, pampered, and socialized with people
and other animals.

When Usul was around 2years old, my Bull Terrier "Happy" died.

Usul went through a profound change and seemed to loose all
of his confidence. He began to act overly wary of strangers,
and anything that made loud noise, like skateboards, rollerblades,
kids screaming and running around and the like.

Since this time I have worked to help rebuild his confidence
with various activities and continued socialization. He's
gotten better, he's a great dog in almost every conceivable
way, but he simply is too skittish.

This evening it was dark, not black, but dark. A father
had his two kids with him. His little girl wanted to pet
the doggy and was not about to listen to her dad tell her no.

I could tell Usul was not comfortable with being approached
by this so I told the little girl no! She approached anyway,
I put Usul in a sit, the little girl raised her hand, and Usul
growled.

Not a viscous "I'm gonna attack" type growl, a low
"Leave Me Alone" type growl. Nonetheless, my dog,
my pitbull dog who I wanted to make an ambassador
for the breed, growled at a kid.

I must say, I did not anticipate having to deal
with this level of skittishness.

My Bull Terrier was unflappable.

Nothing ever got him upset and meeting people
seemed to be the purpose for which he existed.

Anyone else had, or having problems like this??

I would appreciate the advise of some of the more
knowledgeable people in this group.

Thanks

Chrisman

> just how much you were loved,

Well, you SHORE got a FUNNY way of SHOWEIN your LOVE, chrisman!

From: Chrisman Dinnan <broco...@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 00:46:33 GMT
Subject: Back in town...

Hey guys/gals,

Just wanted to say hello and that I'm back up and posting.
A few things have changed since I was here last...I thought
we banished Jerry Howe, what's goin' on??

Chrisman

> and how much we adored you.

Yeah, you jerked and choked him on your pronged
spiked pinch choke collar and made him hyperactive
and paranoid. See The Amazing Puppy Wizard's post
"Fear Of Thunder And Pronged Collars" and you'll
understand HOWE that works... good buddy.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard won the coveted "Full
Canvass Jacket" Award for that post... just a
little brag on myself a bit.

Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.pitbull
From: Chrisman Dinnan <broco...@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 22:06:15 GMT
Subject: Re: Back in town...

Last time he was here somebody posted his home
address and pictures of his house, that seemed
to shut him up for a while...

Chrisman

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!

> In life there are decisions that have to be made,

Without any INFORMATION, just your WEAK FEARFUL MIND
working for your colossal defective ego to compensate
for your massive inferiority complexes.

Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.pitbull
From: Chrisman Dinnan <broco...@earthlink.net>
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 00:12:26 GMT

Subject: Re: Back in town...

Nice to hear from you!!

We should have a secret NG, the title for which
would be completely indiscriminate, nothing to
do with dogs. Only certain individuals would
know where to go.

Jerry is a plague on all dog related NG's.
I fear that this might be our only escape....

Chrisman

> I hope you understand and will forgive me,

You mishandled abused and MURDERED your own DEAD DOG
because you lacked INFORMATION and the INTELLIGENCE
to use The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual The Amazing Puppy Wizard REPEATEDLY
offered you.

"Please don't hesitate to ask if there is anything
about this breed that you don't understand. Jeff
and I, as well as millions of others have to do a
better job of telling the best kept secret in the
animal Kingdome...."Pitbulls are sweet and loving
pets, lovers and protectors of children, kissers
of faces, waggers of tails." Chrisman

> I hope this pain will fade.

Not if The Amazing Puppy Wizard got
anything to do with it, it won't.

> Could I have done more,

You got CHEDDAR like tara o. aka tee likes
to give her DEAD DOGS when she MURDERS the
FOR THE SAME REASON?

You did enough don't you think?

You MURDERED your own DEAD DOG JUST LIKE HOWE so
many other DOG LOVERS here have done cause you
WANTED TO HURT and INTIMIDATE him like the rest
of these mentally ill lying dog abusing punk thug
cowards PREFER.

You're a DOG ABUSER chrisman, you're not a dog lover.

> was it me,

Look around and who do you see MURDERED your
POSTER PIT BULL besides YOU, chrisman? Not
nobody else there holdin your dog down to
KILL IT but YOU.

> was this fault?

You mean "was this *MY* fault?"

Take a real good look, ain't nobody standin
there holdin your dog down to KILL HIM but
YOU, ya miserable coward.

> Into this open wound these thoughts are as salt.

You're really breakin my heart. In forty years
of specializing in temperament problems The
Amazing Puppy Wizard ain't NEVER had to KILL a
dog, and HE get the worst cases HE can find.

> Pitbulls are special

A DOG IS A DOG you freakin moron.

What makes your Pit Bulls SO SPECIAL is
their NEED to be HURT and INTIMIDATED
by DOG LOVERS like you and the rest of
these miserable lying dog abusing punk
thug coward MENTAL CASES.

> and I will fight in the street with
> anyone who would disagree,

And you'll MURDER YOUR OWN BEAST FRIEND
faster than any dog hater would cause
you're a Pit Bull LOVER and you want to
PROTECT the reputation of these fine
little big hearted fighting dogs who
ONLY attack other innocent defenseless
dumb critters but YOU EXXXPECT THAT and
PROTECT them from mixin it up with other
dogs so long as they don't scare YOU.

Then they're DEAD MEAT.

> but never again will we spend time on
> the couch watching football,

Well, yeah! That'll freakin HAPPEN when you
fuckin MURDER your own DEAD DOG, ya nit wit!

> just you and me.

Save it chrisman. The Amazing Puppy Wizard don't
think Usul is interested in your bullshit. It was
YOU who fukin MURDERED him on accHOWENT of YOU
COULDN'T STOP JERKIN and CHOKING HIM.

> When editing my film you\ufffdd come and lick my arm,

Stupid dog. That'll learn him, eh?

He picked the wrong PAL to TRUST.

> Oit\ufffds time to play\ufffd you\ufffdd say, it was you
> and me against the world, no one dared
> stand in our way.

You MURDERED YOUR OWN DEAD DOG, good buddy.

You got a lot of nerve cryin in your beer.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard gave you the information
and the opportunity to use it, and you turned it
down.

You WANTED to handle and train your dog with
FEAR FORCE and INTIMIDATION so you'd LOOK like
a BIG SHOT and you got what The Amazing Puppy
Wizard been tellin you you'd get, you fukin idiot.

Your DEAD DOG Usul deserved better than you
and your empathy and your pronged spiked pinch
choke collar.

Did you shock him too?

Maybe that would have HEELPED???

> My words are horribly inadequate,

Oh, they're adequate... for a DOG LOVER.

Not for you.

You're makin a mockery outta it.

You're the miserable s.o.b. that did everything
you could to ignore and DENY the fact you was
abusing your dog by the way you was handling him.

You didn't like me for tellin you that, so you
chose to ignore me and hurt and kill your dog
as I've been warnin you about.

And now you got what I been tellin ya was comin.

Surprise, surprise, surprise!

> everything is wrong;

Yeah, I been tellin ya that all along, but you
PREFERED to call me a liar and a fraud. So you
got your just desserts. I only wish he'd have
bit your goddamned throat out for ya first.

> nothing is the same since you have gone.

You'll get over it someHOWE. I'll look in my
koehler book for some tips for ya... You any
good with knots?

> The way you loved us was beyond compare

Yeah, and you done good by him allrighty.

> the tender kisses and the hugs are things I will miss,

Sorry to disappoint you, but those 'hugs' was
a SYMPTOM of ANXIETY... not affection. I've
written about that before when someone else
was asking about "hugs."

> I long for your face to see just one more time,

Go visit where he's at, if they'll let you in.
They mite not. I wouldn't allow you to bother
him in doggy heaven. But check it out, you'll
find out when you get there, eh?

Meanwhile go to ed w's PET LOSS dot COIN and
give him fifty bucks and you'll get a nice
Rainbow Bridge Tee Shirt and his PROMISE to
PURSUE The Amazing Puppy Wizard for teachin
folks HOWE to pupperly handle and train their
dogs so they don't gotta MURDER THEM LIKE YOU
DONE to your own DEAD DOG Usul, chrisman <{); ~ ) >

> one more hug, just one more kiss.

Your DEAD DOG would be sittin there havin a beer
and watchin football with you right now if you'd
have used my manual... The Amazing Puppy Wizard
specializes in temperament and behavior problems,
and my students dogs ALL LIVE.

> Goodbye sweet Usul,

Shove it. You're the bum who held him down
and murdered him BECAUSE YOU COULDN'T STOP
JERKIN AND CHOKING HIM.

> who would never let us come to harm,

Yeah, you done real good by him. Congratulations,
Graduate Of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method School Of HARD KNOCKS <{); ~ ) >

> goodbye good buddy

Yeah... you're the bum who MURDERED him.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard got no empathy for
you or your pals who'd do the EXACT same thing.

> who was always at my side,

You fixed that but freakin good, didnya?

> goodbye good dog,

You bumped him off cause he was a good dog now, didya?
I don't think you're very intelligent. You kill good
dogs for growling at people and you love bad dogs
that fight with dogs.

Oh, no, I got that wrong AGAIN, didn I?

Let's see, you love good dogs that will kill other dogs,
and you kill good dogs because they growl at people...

Hmm, I train my dogs to growl at people, and they only
growl at the RIGHT people to growl at. I train my dogs
never to growl at dogs and they LIKE that as much as
they like growling at people.

O.K. Now let's look at HOWE COME your DEAD DOG Usul
growled at the kid.. it was because of your HANDLING.

I'll pull up your post detailing the incident and
I'll point out each of the obvious handling errors
that YOU TRAINED your dog Usul to growl, without
realizing it cause you didn't want to use my manual
cause you wanted to enjoy your pronged spiked pinch
choke collar cause it made walking him EZ, didnya...

> the best I ever knew, if I could make you
> understand anything, it would be that I love you.

Yeah, that's HOWE COME you jerked and choked him:
Psst! Lookey here! Here's some quotes and some
methods right outta your koehler book. Think,
IMPROVISE, and WELCOME GRADUATE STUDENTS!!!:

The Koehler Method of Dog Training (1962).
New York: Howell Book Book House(p. 52-53)."

Hanging
"First, the trainer makes certain that the collar
and leash are more than adequate for any jerk or
strain that the dog's most frantic actions could
cause. Then he starts to work the dog deliberately
and fairly to the point where the dog makes his grab.

Before the teeth have reached their target, the dog,
weight permitting, is jerked from the ground. As in
coping with some of the afore-mentioned problems the
dog is suspended in mid-air.

However, to let the biting dog recover his footing
while he still had the strength to renew the attack
would be cruelty. The only justifiable course is
to hold him suspended until he has neither the strength
nor inclination to renew the fight.

When finally it is obvious that he is physically
incapable of expressing his resentment and is
lowered to the ground, he will probably stagger
loop-legged for a few steps, vomit once or twice,
and roll over on his side.

The sight of a dog lying, thick-tongued, on his side,
is not pleasant, but do not let it alarm you

THE REAL "HOOD"

"If your dog is a real "hood" who would regard the
foregoing types of protest as "kid stuff" and would
express his resentment of your efforts by biting,
your problem is difficult -- and pressing.

"Professional trainers often get these extreme problems.
Nearly always the "protest biter" is the handiwork of
a person who, by avoiding situations that the dog might
resent, has nurtured the seeds of rebellion and then
cultivated the resultant growth with under correction.

When these people reap their inevitable and oftentimes
painful harvest, they are ready to avail themselves of
"the cruel trainer" whose advice they may have once
rejected because it was incompatible with the sugary
droolings of mealy-mouthed columnists, breed-ring
biddies, and dog psychologists who, by the broken skins
and broken hearts their misinformation causes, can be
proven guilty of the greatest act of cruelty to animals
since the dawn of time.

"With more genuine compassion for the biting dog than
would ever be demonstrated by those who are "too kind"
to make a correction and certainly with more disregard
for his safety, the professional trainer morally feels
obligated to perform a "major operation."

"Since we are presently concerned with the dog that bites
in resentment of the demands of training, we will set our
example in that situation. (In a later chapter we will
deal with the with the much easier problem of the dog
that bites someone other than his master."

Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.pitbull
From: "Sandra" <sal...@sprint.ca>
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 08:01:11 -0500
Subject: Re: For Usul...

So true Jeff! And well said Jen!

Having been on both sides of the rescue
fence, I see both sides as well!

Just this year we took in a 2 yr old male. He was
a beautiful dog, excellent with our family but a
touch leery of strangers (nothing serious) until
he was introduced.

One day hubby and I were out feeding and he decided
that hubby was the biggest enemy in the world! Lunged,
teeth bared, growling, hackles up, barking...the whole
9 yards!

Good thing hubby was outside the kennel!!

That display right there was enough to make us make
the fatal decision. I went in the kennel with him
not 5 minutes later and he was fine. Hubby came in
and he was also fine.

He was not having a bad day, he was not protecting
his food (he was waiting for it as hubby had the
feed bucket).

"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVERY LEARNING THEORY
model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT. Of curse,
Skinner has never to my knowledge, demonstrated
HOWE we escape the phenomenon that an expected
reward not received is experienced as a punishment
and can produce extensive and persistent aggression
(Azrin et al, 1966)."

He made a one way trip to the vet. The prior
owner called shortly after and not really wanting
to share the news with her, I flubbed (bad me!)
But I did ask about the behaviour he showed that
day and she informed me THEN(instead of when she
brought him here!) that he is listed as a dangerous
dog in the next city because of a bad bite to
someone!!!!

Imagine that!!

Someone passing off their problem dog without the
real story to someone unsuspecting! Were it not
for our experience with the breed, someone may
very well have gotten seriously hurt AGAIN from
this dog!!

And 2 yrs ago I put down my first CH bitch. Saved
her from being poisoned, and just a few short months
later, her wiring went bad and she started lunging
at people. People she knew and people she didn't.

I took her to the vet in tears with my youngest son
hugging her to have her put down. Vet tried talking
me out of it, gave me options.

I gave him one!

Afterwards he said that he sees all too often the
family with a dog who bit after the bite has already
happened.

If only people would open their eyes to some of their
dogs' behaviour and take responsibility there would
be fewer bites. Sandra

"Jeff \ufffd(*\ufffd*)\ufffd" <pitsaregreatREMOVE-.-T...@yahoo.com>
wrote in message news:ra288.106$Qf2.133927@news.uswest.net...

> Maybe there's a miscommunication problem here (which I
> notice happens often with newbies on this ng. We've
> had waaaaay to many trolls here for our own good).
> Let us agree on some basics. Some dogs are genuinely nuts,
> in the Jeffrey Dahmer sort of way. These dogs are a danger
> to their own families, these dogs can attack anyone, anytime.

> Then there are other dogs that are just not too caring of
> strangers, different things set them off and can make them
> less than safe in public but are still perfectly safe for
> the family.

> The former is rather rare, and I highly doubt that Sancho
> would keep such a dog alive, in reality it really would be
> infeasible and to no one's benefit (this dog really wouldn't
> have any contact with anyone else).

> OTOH, there are many dogs that just plain aren't too
> friendly to unfamiliar faces. Happens with APBTs just
> like with all other breeds (though to a far lesser extent).

> I'll agree with Sancho that if one can care for such a dog
> (its not dangerous to the family) then they certainly should
> take care of such a dog but maintain caution (maintain proper
> facilities, etc).

> If they cannot, preferably finding a home that will care
> for them is preferable, perhaps a family that is seeking
> these traits. It's a question of how much one values each
> individual dog.

> I value each dog very highly, I suspect Sancho does as
> well. When you look at it from the perspective of a
> rescue though, you come to the conclusion that there
> are too many better dogs that are being put to sleep
> so why save this one.
> This is probably why the two will have problems seeing
> eye to eye. I view it from a very familial perspective.

> I have a responsibility to my dog, I don't have a
> responsibility to those dogs (yes, I have been involved
> in rescue for years).

> Anyway, flame away. At least we'll get some good traffic
> on this ng (other than from you know who), which will be
> a pleasant change.

> Just to elaborate: I do agree that if one can't guarantee
> an APBT a decent amount of human contact then that dog
> simply will not be happy. Period.
> Finally, I'm not going to refer to Chrisman's specifically
> until he feels comfortable talking about it (or unless
> completely pressed).

> Jeff

Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.pitbull
From: "Igloo" <spamcatc...@att.net>
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 18:27:20 -0000
Subject: Re: For Usul...

> her wiring went bad

What is this supposed to mean?? Are dogs an
electrical circuit that corrodes?

You have no business owning dogs.

> Vet tried talking me out of it, gave me options.

And why didn't you take them? The vet knows a lot
more about "wiring" than you do.

You killed the dog for no other reason than
your mumbo-jumbo psychology.

Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.pitbull
From: "Sandra" <sal...@sprint.ca>
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 16:06:44 -0500
Subject: Re: For Usul...

FYI...when a dog gets poisoned and they survive, they
don't always keep the same temperment as they previously
had.

Sometimes they suffer mild brain damage not to mention
other damage done internally to various organs.

And if my vet thanked me for making the right decision,
then I think he not only condoned my decision, but agreed
with it!

If you think putting my bitch down wasn't one of the
hardest things I've ever done in my life with dogs,
then you are seriously an ASSHOLE!!!

Until you've walked a mile in someone else's
RESPONSIBLE shoes...don't chastize anyone!!!!

As for me having "no business owning dogs"...I think it's
you who has no business. 13 years with this breed has
taught me alot...not just about the breed, but about all
dogs, their behaviour and the idiots who think they know
it all! Like you!

Sandra

Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.pitbull
From: <bluen...@tcsn.net>
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 10:29:11 -0800
Subject: Re: For Usul...

in article y6E78.192317$vH6.13263...@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com,
#003 at elsan...@juno.com wrote on 2/4/02 2:41 PM:

Yappety Yappety YAP YAP from a complete idiot who
has obviously failed to learn Rule #2............

Thou shalt not suffer a maneater to live............

> why didn't you call me a fuckhead?
> --
> sancho

Because you're several notches below the intellectual
level of the average fuckhead , that's why.

The average fuckhead is able to figure out that a dog
that goes after kids completely without rhyme or reason
is a liability both to the individual owner and to the
breed as a whole.

Chrisman exercised the ultimate responsibility, to
himself, the dog and to the breed as a whole.

Now crawl off his back you indescribable piece of
nattering detritus.

And fuck off , don't wait to do so. fuck off now
while the time is ripe, almost as ripe as your bullshit.

Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.pitbull
From: "Igloo" <spamcatc...@att.net>
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 22:49:42 -0000
Subject: Re: For Usul...

You are so crude and ignorant I am surprised sancho
continues to waste his time debating with you.

He made some very valid points, and all you can do is
type shit, assholes, ass and other profanities.

You probably fancy yourself as a macho tough guy, but
you come across as an illiterate.

Newsgroups: alt.animals.dog
From: Chrisman Dinnan <broco...@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 00:23:58 GMT

Subject: Re: Help with leash training AmStaff

> "Wendy Kubas" <wcku...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:13092-3BEB0FFE-153@storefull-241.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> > Hi,My name is Wendy, I'm new to this
> > disscussion board and webtv so please
> > bear with me. My problem is this...
> I would take him to puppy obedience. It's
> a great help and gives you a good foundation.

Wendy,

I have a two and a half year old American Pitbull
Terrier and, to a degree, I can sympathize with
the issues that you are having.

The good news is, as I'm sure you already know,
this is a great, loving and affectionate breed;
handsome loyal, trustworthy. Watch them around
other dogs though...

Anyway, pulling is part of this breeds personality.
To a certain extent, it would kinda be like taking
the white out of rice...see my point??

Puppy classes is a great idea. This breed is
very intelligent and very trainable.

With a kind but firm hand you can mold this dog
into THE ideal pet.

If you don't mind me asking, what research did you
do on this breed before your purchase??

I only seek to ascertain your level of knowledge
about this breed so I don't give advice that you
already know.

Good Luck!!

Chrisman

DOG TRAININ AIN'T LUCK, DOG ABUSERS.

Punishment Deranges Behavior.
"NO!" Does NOT Have Any Behavioral Function
EXCEPT
To DERANGE Behaviors.

Here's professor dermer pryor:

From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST

And how do we know this aspect of his
advice is right?

Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.

(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
ill-mannered, or just plain ill.\ufffd),

--Marshall

"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.

BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!

That's INSANE. Ain't it.

Here's professor dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:

"We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People Should
Come To Their Senses And Support Your Valuable Work.
God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall Dermer,
Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI.

From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<*.@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM

Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,

I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.

You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent\ufffd,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts \ufffdto
alert the world to animal abuse.

We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.

Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?

In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.

--Marshall Dermer

Subject: < BEFORE -> "Jerry, You filthy, Unctuous,
No Good Charlatan,"

< AFTER -> "Thank You Jerry For Putting Up With
A Constant Barrage Of Really Infantile
Crap At The Hands Of Supposedly Adult
Dog Lovers.

'Naive' Is Believing You Can Terrorize
A Dog Into Good Behavior," Robert Crim.

>Subject: Re: Fritz---a retrospective
>Date: 02/05/1999
>Author: Robert Crim <fritzg...@earthlink.net>
> You filthy, unctuous, no good charlatan. If you had
> any idea of what dogs and dog people were about
> you would realize the depths of the absolute loathing
> and contempt I hold for you right now. Were it not
> for the blessed distance and anonymity that the internet
> gives us from the scummy likes of you, I would probably
> be in a jail cell right now for turning you into the pile
> of shit you really are

Hey, Howe, you really are a wacko, eh?

Crim wrote this about *YOU,* you insipid piece of cow dung!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman

=====================

> On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:24:15 -0700, dogsnus

<"Terri"@cyberhighway> Wrote:>

> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> come forward and actually believe in his training manual.
Robert Crim writes:

I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope,
understood enough of the manual and it's counterparts by
John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
and use it.

This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.

The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.

To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.

Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use their real
names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.

"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.

Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.

> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
> actually admit to buying and having success with his
> little black box.

I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.

> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
> to him! LOL!

I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.

>Terri

Yes it was, and that is sad.

Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)

===========

Crim wrote THAT about *YOU,* tommy, "you insipid piece of cow dung!"

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@mail.com>
Subject: Alleged Professors of Animal Behavior
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:50:51 -0400

Dear Jerry, I paged through some of the "dog business"
and was astonished at the low quality of opinions arising
from professors of behavior analysis.

I had the very great privilege of meeting Sam Corson
(Pavlov's last Ph.D. student) and his dogs at Ohio
University. I even got to spend a night at Sam's house.

There is no question but that you are a spiritual brother
to Corson and to Pavlov, both of whom knew that the dog's
great capacity for love was the key to shaping doggie behavior.

Paradoxical reward and paradoxical fixing of attention are
both well documented Pavlovian techniques. Even so humorless
a chap as B.F. Skinner taught students like the Breland's whose
"The Misbehavior of Organisms" demonstrate the utility of your
methods and their deep roots in scientific (as opposed to
commercial) psychology.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
you may find my resume in Who's Who in
Science and Technology



Mac
2005-12-03 22:29:12 EST
Please learn to spell correctly, then come back and post your message.
Perhaps then we will read it.

"L Bailey" <lonb13@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:cqdkf.12525$aA2.11310@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> thats right ur ignorance in unquestionable if u came 2 the pitbull
> msgboard where people like pitbulls 2 complain about them go some
> where else and do it u haters dont know nothing about pitbulls go some
> where else and write about ur Bull SHit on how pits r evil and stop
> spamming r board with ur hate people come here 4 go info not ur
> bull shit lies and fear of pit dogs go some where else dog nazis well
> ur at it look up the top 3 biters pits arnt even on that list yes i know
> there on the top 3 deadlyest dogs behide 1 or 2 other breeds but overall
> pitbulls arnt even on the top10 most likey 2 bite u list so STOP ur
> Lies there r less manbiters by % in pitbulls then most other breeds ur
> more like 2 be bitin by ur beloved black lab or germansheard then a pit
> i would say that pitbulls need the least amout of work in the man biting
> cur deparment then any other breed man biters have been culled out
> harder then any other breed know 2 man i think u need 2 look at other
> breed where improments could realy be made
> L
> <AnimalBehaviorForensicSciencesResearchLaboratory@HushMail.Com> wrote in
> message news:1133300961.397182.183620@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> HOWEDY Diane,
>
> Diane Johnson wrote:
>> This is not to sound condesending, but what is the
>> problem with you pit lovers?
>
> THAT'S EZ, Diane. HOWER Pit Bull Lovers treat their
> fear aggressive little dogs with SPECIAL CARE on
> accHOWENT of they NEED SPECIAL CARE <{); ~ ) >
>
>> My local pound will not put a pit up for adoption.
>> They are allways put down.
>
> LIKE THAT, FOR EXXXAMPLE.
>
>> Lets keep in minde the fact that pits are bread
>
> You mean Pita bread? Or do you mean fightin BRED Pit Bulls?
>
>> of fight and enjoy killing.
>
> THAT'S the pupaganda put HOWET by the Pit Bull DOG LOVERS
> who jerk choke shock intimidate crate and MURDER their own
> fear aggressive dogs on their first grHOWEL at a human.
>
> Let's keep in mind A DOG IS A DOG. That dog abusing
> mentally ill cowards breed LITTLE dogs to fight in
> the pit as a GENTLEMAN'S SPORT doesn't mean the DOG
> is viciHOWES, it's the MENTALLY ILL ABUSER who is.
>
>> Just like the 3 pits who nearly tore my neighbors dog
>> apart just because he strayed to close to the dog house.
>
> Dogs are terrortorial by NATURE. What was your neighbor's
> dog doin OFF of his own TERRORTORY?
>
>> They did not bark at the dog before it got too close to their reach.
>
> The same same will happen with ANY dog CHAINED. It's called
> "CHANED DOG SYNDROME" and for THAT reason chaining dogs has
> become ILLEGAL in several states in the U.S.
>
>> They didn't warn that dog that it was too close.
>
> Of curse not. That'd chase away the INTRUDER.
>
>> They were all on 15 foot chains when they snatched the little
>> terrior up and carried it away like lions would its prey.
>
> THAT AIN'T typical of the Pit Bull, it's typical of ANY CHAINED DOG.
>
>> 2 other neighbors had to risk themselves to save the poor dog
>> from those vicious beasts with what ever they can grab.
>
> That was KINDLY of them but the dogs WAS on their own pupperty.
>
>> I love how you idealistic pit lovers like to boast
>> that pits act how you rais them.
>
> That's true of ANY dog, Diane. It's the Pit Bull Lovers
> who jerk and choke and shock and surgically mutilate
> and murder their SPECIAL breed of dog.
>
>> If that is true then tell me something. Why did my friend
>> (who loves dogs) get bit in the face (unprovoked and for no
>> reason) by a pit who was given all the love in the world and
>> never once got beaten or mishandled a day in its life?
>
> Dogs DON'T DO NUTHIN for NO REASON. Perhaps if you
> give the DETAILS we can figger HOWET HOWE COME.
>
>> That dog never showed any agressive tendencies before that.
>
> Perhaps it had a BRAIN TUMOR?
>
>> Can you consider that dog to be stable?
>
> You'd have to give the DETAILS to figger HOWET HOWE COME he attacked.
>
>> My friend had to get stitches and was nearly traumatised
>> to the point of fearing other dogs. The owner of that dog
>> is lucky he didn't get sued.
>
> Yeah.
>
>> Why do you pit lovers think that raising is everything and
>> genetics play no role in personality or temperment?
>
> Oh, on accHOWENT of IT IS.
>
>> Don't you know that a dog behavior is influenced by the way it was bread?
>
> You mean like HOWE some BREADS rise and others don't? Like Pita BREAD?
>
>> Don't you know that boarder collies instinctivly nip at the ankles
>> of joggers because they were bread to heard sheep that way?
>
> Don't you know THAT is the visual oral reflex and
> IT can be EXXXTINGUISHED in a couple minutes?
>
>> How could you possibly intrust your lives to a dog that
>> is programmed to kill for fun?
>
> ALL AGGRESSION IS FEAR. ALL FEAR IS CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.
>
>> Even if the statistics are small, you are still living
>> with an animal that is fully capable of suddenly hurting
>> you, your child, or a neighbors child, ect for possibly
>> no reason.
>
> Oh? Sez you. THAT'S INSANE.
>
>> One more question. How do you sleep at night?
>
> With a dictionary as a pillow...
>
> Here's EVERY THING you gotta know abHOWET Pit Bull Dogs:
>
> HOWEDY Kate,
>
> kate wrote:
>> I'm a new (and somewhat reluctant) owner of a pit bull.
>
> Congrats!
>
>> I'm not sure this is the right place to ask,
>
> WELCOME to The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
> NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
> Method Manual Forums. I'm Jerry Howe, The Amazing Puppy
> Wizard.
>
> HERE'S YOUR OWN FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
> 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
> Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual:
>
> <{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
> <{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
> <{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
> <{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
> <{#}: ~ } > http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u < { ~ :{@}>
> <{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
> <{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
> <{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
> <{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
>
> http://www.irishdogs.ie/Information/Wits_End_Dog_Training.pdf
>
>> but I'm giving it a shot.
>
> Good for you. FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS PRECISELY and
> ASK The Amazing Puppy Wizard if you need any additional
> FREE HEELP and you got a FRIEND FOR LIFE. OtherWIZE you'll
> end up like the rest of these lying dog abusing punk
> thug coward mental cases who BLAME THE DOG for THEIR
> temperament and behavior problems and jerk choke shock
> surgically mutilate and MURDER their own fear aggressive
> hyperactive HOWETA CON-TROLL dogs and LIE abHOWET it
> to protect their own SENSITIVE FEELINS.
>
>> Can pit bulls
>
> A dog is a dog. Pit Bulls ain't as tall as Great
> Danes nor as fast as Grey HOWENDS but other than
> build and fur, a dog is STILL a DOG.
>
>> play with other dogs off leash?
>
> Pit Bulls GOT a BAD REPUTATION on accHOWENT of
> the lying dog abusing punk thug coward mentally
> ill Pit Bull FANCIERS who TREAT their big hearted
> fighting dogs DIFFERENTLY on accHOWENT of they
> don't know HOWE to pupperly handle and train them.
>
>> Can they ever be off leash if not in a fenced area?
>
> Of curse. Didn't you ever watch "The Little Rascals"
> on T.V.? That dog Petey was a Pit Bull and he was
> NEVER on leash and always played with and protected
> the Gang.
>
>> With all the media hype about pits,
>
> That media HYPE is generated by the Pit Bull
> Fanciers who MURDER their own dogs on their
> first grHOWEL at a human being on accHOWENT
> of they're DOG ABUSING PUNK THUG COWARDS.
>
>> and the different rescue websites I've visited,
>
> Those so calle rescue websites are RUN BY the
> SAME DOG ABUSING PUNK THUG COWARDS who TREAT
> their Pit Bull dogs with SPECIAL CARE so's not
> to cause their favorite breed a BAD REPUTATION
> on accHOWENT of THEY CAN'T TRAIN THEIR DOGS NOT
> TO FIGHT on accHOWENT of ALL AGGRESSION IS FEAR
> and ALL FEAR is CAUSED BY MISHANDLING like jerking
> and choking and shocking and locking them in boxes
> and surgically sexually mutilating them.
>
>> it sounds like you never want them to become overstimulated.
>
> Dogs BECOME "hyperactive" on accHOWENT of the
> DOG ABUSERS and PARTICULARLY HOWER Pit Bull
> LOVERS HURT and INTIMIDATE their dogs.
>
>> If true,
>
> EVERY THING the EXXXPERTS tell us abHOWET dogs
> nd PARTICULARLY the Pit BUll is BULL fabricated
> by DOG ABUSING PUNK THUG COWARD MENTAL CASES like
> you're writing to here on The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
> 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
> WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Forums.
>
>> how do you keep a hyper dog from becoming over stimulated?
>
> You EXXXTINGUISH their "HYPERACTIVITY" NEARLY INSTANTLY by
> NOT DOIN what the DOG LOVERS tell us to do to HOWER dogs.
>
>> Kate
>
> Chrisman Dinnan wrote:
>
> By "Toughness" I mean that which makes pitbulls
> different from a border collie for example. An
> owner who has not researched properly must be
> informed about various aspects of the breed and
> toughness is definatly one of them.
>
> Sure, my dog is pretty much a sissy, raised him
> from five weeks old, he took naps in the palm of
> my hand while I rubbed his belly and talked to
> him, got him that young because I wanted him and
> my Bull Terrier (also a sissy) to get along, and
> they do, but make no mistake about it, where the
> normal dog may bark at a squirel my pitbull "Usul"
> (means: the strenght at the base of the pillar)
> damm near shimmy up that tree and will bloody his
> mouth trying to bite branches to better his position.
>
> It is this determination, their tender and thoughtful
> expressions, thier wide, beautiful heads, the purpose
> for which the breed originated, thier athleticism, the
> gentle manner in which they can take you entire forearm
> in their massive jaws and never bruse you when you play,
> thier bad gass, TUG-OF-WAR, and "toughness" that sets
> them appart from other breeds.
>
> Toughness is a virtue, we should not be
> afraid to mention it in this newsgroup.
>
>
> A Dog Lover's Eulogy To His BEAST Friend:
>
> For Usul... + Congratulations, Graduate Of
> WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
> School Of HARD KNOCKS -
> Think, IMPROVISE, And WELCOME GRADUATE STUDENTS!!!:
>
> Hello chrisman,
>
> "Chrisman Dinnan" <broco...@earthlink.net>
> news:B87BB320.8DA%brocolli@earthlink.net...
>
>> Something is wrong with the world and I just can\ufffdt
>> stand it anymore, no longer will I be greeted by
>> your waging tail when I come in the door.
>
> Oh, well that's EZ to figger HOWET, chrisman!
>
> That's on account of you freakin MURDERED your own dog
> cause you mishandled him like the rest of your dog lover
> pals do with their incessant penchant for crates bribes
> pronged spiked pinch choke collars and shock devices.
>
> What the heel do you EXPECT?
>
> That's HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy Wizard DON'T
> USE use those "TOOLS" which make your dog THINK
> you are freakin G-D, chrisman.
>
>> Your presence is missed, I just thought you should know,
>
> You MURDERED your own dog on accHOWENT of you
> COULDN'T STOP JERKING and CHOKING IT on your
> pronged spiked pinch choke collar JUST LIKE
> HOWE The Amazing Puppy Wizard SEZ YOU WOULD.
>
> DIDN'T YOU, you sorry pathetic dog abusing coward.
>
>> I would have given anything just so you didn\ufffdt have to go.
>
> Yeah. Everything but STOP JERKING and CHOKING your
> dog to make you FEEL like freakin G-D you miserable
> doubletalkin dog abusin LUNATIC. You REFUSED to learn
> HOWE to handle him puperly.
>
> You TRAINED your dog to growl at kids cause you HURT
> and INTIMIDATED him just like steve walker done to
> his DEAD DOG Sampson and tara o. aka tee done to her
> DEAD DOGS Summer and Tyson and Robert Crim did to
> his DEAD DOG Fritz The Wonder Dog.
>
> DIDN'T YOU, chrisman.
>
> And NHOWE you're gonna PISS an MOAN abHOWET it
> and pass the CRYIN towel and get SYMPATHY from
> the rest of these miserable lying dog abusing
> punk thug coward MENTAL CASES who JERK CHOKE
> SHOCK BRIBE CRATE INTIMIDATE and MURDER their
> own DEAD DOGS JUST LIKE HOWE YOU DONE???
>
> NOT HERE on The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
> NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
> Method Forums, you AIN'T, chrisman... NOT withHOWET bein
> IDENTIFIED EXXXPOSED and DISCREDITED as the miserable rotten
> lying dog abusing punk thug coward you are.
>
> HOWEver, you're in EXXXCELLENT company, chrisman.
>
> Doesn't take much to teach the wrong lesson. I'll
> even show you HOWE you mishandled Usul and HOWE
> COME your dog turned on to ATTACK that innocent
> CHILD who only wanted to say "HOWEDY DOGGY!".
>
> You done EXACTLY what ATTACK DOG TRAINERS DO
> when they're training a ATTACK dog to ATTACK.
>
>> It makes me sad
>
> INDEED? The Amazing Puppy Wizard had been TELLIN
> YOU that you was HURTIN your dog with that pronged
> spiked pinch choke collar but YOU DIDN'T LIKE THAT.
>
> Tell your SAD story to ed w of PET LOSS dot COIN.
> He's GLAD you MURDERED your own DEAD DOG on accHOWENT
> of THAT'S HOWE HE MAKES HIS LIVIN you freakin imbecile.
>
> Chrisman Dinnan (broco...@earthlink.net)
> Subject: Re: HOW DO YOU GET P.B.'S TO STOP PULLING?
> Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.pitbull
> Date: 2000/02/23
>
> I use a pinch collar on both my dogs. A choke chain
> is NOT the way to go with these dogs and I've even
> heard that using a chock chain on a dog that pulls
> incessantly can cause damage.
>
> Chrisman
>
>> because I\ufffdm not sure you knew,
>
> HE KNEW, you freakin imbecile! It was HIS NECK
> you was jerkin and choking you freakin dog abusing
> simpleton!
>
> Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.pitbull
> From: Chrisman Dinnan <broco...@earthlink.net>
> Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 23:39:43 GMT
>
> Subject: Usul groweled at a kid...
>
> It's been a little while, so perhaps a refresher is in order...
>
> Usul is male. fixed, three years old, a Rossman/McCoy dog
> who, despite previous claims to the contrary, is a dog of
> questionable breeding. I've had him since he was five weeks
> old, he has been loved, pampered, and socialized with people
> and other animals.
>
> When Usul was around 2years old, my Bull Terrier "Happy" died.
>
> Usul went through a profound change and seemed to loose all
> of his confidence. He began to act overly wary of strangers,
> and anything that made loud noise, like skateboards, rollerblades,
> kids screaming and running around and the like.
>
> Since this time I have worked to help rebuild his confidence
> with various activities and continued socialization. He's
> gotten better, he's a great dog in almost every conceivable
> way, but he simply is too skittish.
>
> This evening it was dark, not black, but dark. A father
> had his two kids with him. His little girl wanted to pet
> the doggy and was not about to listen to her dad tell her no.
>
> I could tell Usul was not comfortable with being approached
> by this so I told the little girl no! She approached anyway,
> I put Usul in a sit, the little girl raised her hand, and Usul
> growled.
>
> Not a viscous "I'm gonna attack" type growl, a low
> "Leave Me Alone" type growl. Nonetheless, my dog,
> my pitbull dog who I wanted to make an ambassador
> for the breed, growled at a kid.
>
> I must say, I did not anticipate having to deal
> with this level of skittishness.
>
> My Bull Terrier was unflappable.
>
> Nothing ever got him upset and meeting people
> seemed to be the purpose for which he existed.
>
> Anyone else had, or having problems like this??
>
> I would appreciate the advise of some of the more
> knowledgeable people in this group.
>
> Thanks
>
> Chrisman
>
>> just how much you were loved,
>
> Well, you SHORE got a FUNNY way of SHOWEIN your LOVE, chrisman!
>
> From: Chrisman Dinnan <broco...@earthlink.net>
> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 00:46:33 GMT
> Subject: Back in town...
>
> Hey guys/gals,
>
> Just wanted to say hello and that I'm back up and posting.
> A few things have changed since I was here last...I thought
> we banished Jerry Howe, what's goin' on??
>
> Chrisman
>
>> and how much we adored you.
>
> Yeah, you jerked and choked him on your pronged
> spiked pinch choke collar and made him hyperactive
> and paranoid. See The Amazing Puppy Wizard's post
> "Fear Of Thunder And Pronged Collars" and you'll
> understand HOWE that works... good buddy.
>
> The Amazing Puppy Wizard won the coveted "Full
> Canvass Jacket" Award for that post... just a
> little brag on myself a bit.
>
> Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.pitbull
> From: Chrisman Dinnan <broco...@earthlink.net>
> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 22:06:15 GMT
> Subject: Re: Back in town...
>
> Last time he was here somebody posted his home
> address and pictures of his house, that seemed
> to shut him up for a while...
>
> Chrisman
>
> BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!
>
>> In life there are decisions that have to be made,
>
> Without any INFORMATION, just your WEAK FEARFUL MIND
> working for your colossal defective ego to compensate
> for your massive inferiority complexes.
>
> Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.pitbull
> From: Chrisman Dinnan <broco...@earthlink.net>
> Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 00:12:26 GMT
>
> Subject: Re: Back in town...
>
> Nice to hear from you!!
>
> We should have a secret NG, the title for which
> would be completely indiscriminate, nothing to
> do with dogs. Only certain individuals would
> know where to go.
>
> Jerry is a plague on all dog related NG's.
> I fear that this might be our only escape....
>
> Chrisman
>
>> I hope you understand and will forgive me,
>
> You mishandled abused and MURDERED your own DEAD DOG
> because you lacked INFORMATION and the INTELLIGENCE
> to use The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
> NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE Wits' End Dog Training
> Method Manual The Amazing Puppy Wizard REPEATEDLY
> offered you.
>
> "Please don't hesitate to ask if there is anything
> about this breed that you don't understand. Jeff
> and I, as well as millions of others have to do a
> better job of telling the best kept secret in the
> animal Kingdome...."Pitbulls are sweet and loving
> pets, lovers and protectors of children, kissers
> of faces, waggers of tails." Chrisman
>
>> I hope this pain will fade.
>
> Not if The Amazing Puppy Wizard got
> anything to do with it, it won't.
>
>> Could I have done more,
>
> You got CHEDDAR like tara o. aka tee likes
> to give her DEAD DOGS when she MURDERS the
> FOR THE SAME REASON?
>
> You did enough don't you think?
>
> You MURDERED your own DEAD DOG JUST LIKE HOWE so
> many other DOG LOVERS here have done cause you
> WANTED TO HURT and INTIMIDATE him like the rest
> of these mentally ill lying dog abusing punk thug
> cowards PREFER.
>
> You're a DOG ABUSER chrisman, you're not a dog lover.
>
>> was it me,
>
> Look around and who do you see MURDERED your
> POSTER PIT BULL besides YOU, chrisman? Not
> nobody else there holdin your dog down to
> KILL IT but YOU.
>
>> was this fault?
>
> You mean "was this *MY* fault?"
>
> Take a real good look, ain't nobody standin
> there holdin your dog down to KILL HIM but
> YOU, ya miserable coward.
>
>> Into this open wound these thoughts are as salt.
>
> You're really breakin my heart. In forty years
> of specializing in temperament problems The
> Amazing Puppy Wizard ain't NEVER had to KILL a
> dog, and HE get the worst cases HE can find.
>
>> Pitbulls are special
>
> A DOG IS A DOG you freakin moron.
>
> What makes your Pit Bulls SO SPECIAL is
> their NEED to be HURT and INTIMIDATED
> by DOG LOVERS like you and the rest of
> these miserable lying dog abusing punk
> thug coward MENTAL CASES.
>
>> and I will fight in the street with
>> anyone who would disagree,
>
> And you'll MURDER YOUR OWN BEAST FRIEND
> faster than any dog hater would cause
> you're a Pit Bull LOVER and you want to
> PROTECT the reputation of these fine
> little big hearted fighting dogs who
> ONLY attack other innocent defenseless
> dumb critters but YOU EXXXPECT THAT and
> PROTECT them from mixin it up with other
> dogs so long as they don't scare YOU.
>
> Then they're DEAD MEAT.
>
>> but never again will we spend time on
>> the couch watching football,
>
> Well, yeah! That'll freakin HAPPEN when you
> fuckin MURDER your own DEAD DOG, ya nit wit!
>
>> just you and me.
>
> Save it chrisman. The Amazing Puppy Wizard don't
> think Usul is interested in your bullshit. It was
> YOU who fukin MURDERED him on accHOWENT of YOU
> COULDN'T STOP JERKIN and CHOKING HIM.
>
>> When editing my film you\ufffdd come and lick my arm,
>
> Stupid dog. That'll learn him, eh?
>
> He picked the wrong PAL to TRUST.
>
>> Oit\ufffds time to play\ufffd you\ufffdd say, it was you
>> and me against the world, no one dared
>> stand in our way.
>
> You MURDERED YOUR OWN DEAD DOG, good buddy.
>
> You got a lot of nerve cryin in your beer.
>
> The Amazing Puppy Wizard gave you the information
> and the opportunity to use it, and you turned it
> down.
>
> You WANTED to handle and train your dog with
> FEAR FORCE and INTIMIDATION so you'd LOOK like
> a BIG SHOT and you got what The Amazing Puppy
> Wizard been tellin you you'd get, you fukin idiot.
>
> Your DEAD DOG Usul deserved better than you
> and your empathy and your pronged spiked pinch
> choke collar.
>
> Did you shock him too?
>
> Maybe that would have HEELPED???
>
>> My words are horribly inadequate,
>
> Oh, they're adequate... for a DOG LOVER.
>
> Not for you.
>
> You're makin a mockery outta it.
>
> You're the miserable s.o.b. that did everything
> you could to ignore and DENY the fact you was
> abusing your dog by the way you was handling him.
>
> You didn't like me for tellin you that, so you
> chose to ignore me and hurt and kill your dog
> as I've been warnin you about.
>
> And now you got what I been tellin ya was comin.
>
> Surprise, surprise, surprise!
>
>> everything is wrong;
>
> Yeah, I been tellin ya that all along, but you
> PREFERED to call me a liar and a fraud. So you
> got your just desserts. I only wish he'd have
> bit your goddamned throat out for ya first.
>
>> nothing is the same since you have gone.
>
> You'll get over it someHOWE. I'll look in my
> koehler book for some tips for ya... You any
> good with knots?
>
>> The way you loved us was beyond compare
>
> Yeah, and you done good by him allrighty.
>
>> the tender kisses and the hugs are things I will miss,
>
> Sorry to disappoint you, but those 'hugs' was
> a SYMPTOM of ANXIETY... not affection. I've
> written about that before when someone else
> was asking about "hugs."
>
>> I long for your face to see just one more time,
>
> Go visit where he's at, if they'll let you in.
> They mite not. I wouldn't allow you to bother
> him in doggy heaven. But check it out, you'll
> find out when you get there, eh?
>
> Meanwhile go to ed w's PET LOSS dot COIN and
> give him fifty bucks and you'll get a nice
> Rainbow Bridge Tee Shirt and his PROMISE to
> PURSUE The Amazing Puppy Wizard for teachin
> folks HOWE to pupperly handle and train their
> dogs so they don't gotta MURDER THEM LIKE YOU
> DONE to your own DEAD DOG Usul, chrisman <{); ~ ) >
>
>> one more hug, just one more kiss.
>
> Your DEAD DOG would be sittin there havin a beer
> and watchin football with you right now if you'd
> have used my manual... The Amazing Puppy Wizard
> specializes in temperament and behavior problems,
> and my students dogs ALL LIVE.
>
>> Goodbye sweet Usul,
>
> Shove it. You're the bum who held him down
> and murdered him BECAUSE YOU COULDN'T STOP
> JERKIN AND CHOKING HIM.
>
>> who would never let us come to harm,
>
> Yeah, you done real good by him. Congratulations,
> Graduate Of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's WWW Wits'
> End Dog Training Method School Of HARD KNOCKS <{); ~ ) >
>
>> goodbye good buddy
>
> Yeah... you're the bum who MURDERED him.
>
> The Amazing Puppy Wizard got no empathy for
> you or your pals who'd do the EXACT same thing.
>
>> who was always at my side,
>
> You fixed that but freakin good, didnya?
>
>> goodbye good dog,
>
> You bumped him off cause he was a good dog now, didya?
> I don't think you're very intelligent. You kill good
> dogs for growling at people and you love bad dogs
> that fight with dogs.
>
> Oh, no, I got that wrong AGAIN, didn I?
>
> Let's see, you love good dogs that will kill other dogs,
> and you kill good dogs because they growl at people...
>
> Hmm, I train my dogs to growl at people, and they only
> growl at the RIGHT people to growl at. I train my dogs
> never to growl at dogs and they LIKE that as much as
> they like growling at people.
>
> O.K. Now let's look at HOWE COME your DEAD DOG Usul
> growled at the kid.. it was because of your HANDLING.
>
> I'll pull up your post detailing the incident and
> I'll point out each of the obvious handling errors
> that YOU TRAINED your dog Usul to growl, without
> realizing it cause you didn't want to use my manual
> cause you wanted to enjoy your pronged spiked pinch
> choke collar cause it made walking him EZ, didnya...
>
>> the best I ever knew, if I could make you
>> understand anything, it would be that I love you.
>
> Yeah, that's HOWE COME you jerked and choked him:
> Psst! Lookey here! Here's some quotes and some
> methods right outta your koehler book. Think,
> IMPROVISE, and WELCOME GRADUATE STUDENTS!!!:
>
> The Koehler Method of Dog Training (1962).
> New York: Howell Book Book House(p. 52-53)."
>
> Hanging
> "First, the trainer makes certain that the collar
> and leash are more than adequate for any jerk or
> strain that the dog's most frantic actions could
> cause. Then he starts to work the dog deliberately
> and fairly to the point where the dog makes his grab.
>
> Before the teeth have reached their target, the dog,
> weight permitting, is jerked from the ground. As in
> coping with some of the afore-mentioned problems the
> dog is suspended in mid-air.
>
> However, to let the biting dog recover his footing
> while he still had the strength to renew the attack
> would be cruelty. The only justifiable course is
> to hold him suspended until he has neither the strength
> nor inclination to renew the fight.
>
> When finally it is obvious that he is physically
> incapable of expressing his resentment and is
> lowered to the ground, he will probably stagger
> loop-legged for a few steps, vomit once or twice,
> and roll over on his side.
>
> The sight of a dog lying, thick-tongued, on his side,
> is not pleasant, but do not let it alarm you
>
> THE REAL "HOOD"
>
> "If your dog is a real "hood" who would regard the
> foregoing types of protest as "kid stuff" and would
> express his resentment of your efforts by biting,
> your problem is difficult -- and pressing.
>
> "Professional trainers often get these extreme problems.
> Nearly always the "protest biter" is the handiwork of
> a person who, by avoiding situations that the dog might
> resent, has nurtured the seeds of rebellion and then
> cultivated the resultant growth with under correction.
>
> When these people reap their inevitable and oftentimes
> painful harvest, they are ready to avail themselves of
> "the cruel trainer" whose advice they may have once
> rejected because it was incompatible with the sugary
> droolings of mealy-mouthed columnists, breed-ring
> biddies, and dog psychologists who, by the broken skins
> and broken hearts their misinformation causes, can be
> proven guilty of the greatest act of cruelty to animals
> since the dawn of time.
>
> "With more genuine compassion for the biting dog than
> would ever be demonstrated by those who are "too kind"
> to make a correction and certainly with more disregard
> for his safety, the professional trainer morally feels
> obligated to perform a "major operation."
>
> "Since we are presently concerned with the dog that bites
> in resentment of the demands of training, we will set our
> example in that situation. (In a later chapter we will
> deal with the with the much easier problem of the dog
> that bites someone other than his master."
>
> Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.pitbull
> From: "Sandra" <sal...@sprint.ca>
> Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 08:01:11 -0500
> Subject: Re: For Usul...
>
> So true Jeff! And well said Jen!
>
> Having been on both sides of the rescue
> fence, I see both sides as well!
>
> Just this year we took in a 2 yr old male. He was
> a beautiful dog, excellent with our family but a
> touch leery of strangers (nothing serious) until
> he was introduced.
>
> One day hubby and I were out feeding and he decided
> that hubby was the biggest enemy in the world! Lunged,
> teeth bared, growling, hackles up, barking...the whole
> 9 yards!
>
> Good thing hubby was outside the kennel!!
>
> That display right there was enough to make us make
> the fatal decision. I went in the kennel with him
> not 5 minutes later and he was fine. Hubby came in
> and he was also fine.
>
> He was not having a bad day, he was not protecting
> his food (he was waiting for it as hubby had the
> feed bucket).
>
> "Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
> reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVERY LEARNING THEORY
> model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT. Of curse,
> Skinner has never to my knowledge, demonstrated
> HOWE we escape the phenomenon that an expected
> reward not received is experienced as a punishment
> and can produce extensive and persistent aggression
> (Azrin et al, 1966)."
>
> He made a one way trip to the vet. The prior
> owner called shortly after and not really wanting
> to share the news with her, I flubbed (bad me!)
> But I did ask about the behaviour he showed that
> day and she informed me THEN(instead of when she
> brought him here!) that he is listed as a dangerous
> dog in the next city because of a bad bite to
> someone!!!!
>
> Imagine that!!
>
> Someone passing off their problem dog without the
> real story to someone unsuspecting! Were it not
> for our experience with the breed, someone may
> very well have gotten seriously hurt AGAIN from
> this dog!!
>
> And 2 yrs ago I put down my first CH bitch. Saved
> her from being poisoned, and just a few short months
> later, her wiring went bad and she started lunging
> at people. People she knew and people she didn't.
>
> I took her to the vet in tears with my youngest son
> hugging her to have her put down. Vet tried talking
> me out of it, gave me options.
>
> I gave him one!
>
> Afterwards he said that he sees all too often the
> family with a dog who bit after the bite has already
> happened.
>
> If only people would open their eyes to some of their
> dogs' behaviour and take responsibility there would
> be fewer bites. Sandra
>
> "Jeff \ufffd(*\ufffd*)\ufffd" <pitsaregreatREMOVE-.-T...@yahoo.com>
> wrote in message news:ra288.106$Qf2.133927@news.uswest.net...
>
>> Maybe there's a miscommunication problem here (which I
>> notice happens often with newbies on this ng. We've
>> had waaaaay to many trolls here for our own good).
>> Let us agree on some basics. Some dogs are genuinely nuts,
>> in the Jeffrey Dahmer sort of way. These dogs are a danger
>> to their own families, these dogs can attack anyone, anytime.
>
>> Then there are other dogs that are just not too caring of
>> strangers, different things set them off and can make them
>> less than safe in public but are still perfectly safe for
>> the family.
>
>> The former is rather rare, and I highly doubt that Sancho
>> would keep such a dog alive, in reality it really would be
>> infeasible and to no one's benefit (this dog really wouldn't
>> have any contact with anyone else).
>
>> OTOH, there are many dogs that just plain aren't too
>> friendly to unfamiliar faces. Happens with APBTs just
>> like with all other breeds (though to a far lesser extent).
>
>> I'll agree with Sancho that if one can care for such a dog
>> (its not dangerous to the family) then they certainly should
>> take care of such a dog but maintain caution (maintain proper
>> facilities, etc).
>
>> If they cannot, preferably finding a home that will care
>> for them is preferable, perhaps a family that is seeking
>> these traits. It's a question of how much one values each
>> individual dog.
>
>> I value each dog very highly, I suspect Sancho does as
>> well. When you look at it from the perspective of a
>> rescue though, you come to the conclusion that there
>> are too many better dogs that are being put to sleep
>> so why save this one.
>> This is probably why the two will have problems seeing
>> eye to eye. I view it from a very familial perspective.
>
>> I have a responsibility to my dog, I don't have a
>> responsibility to those dogs (yes, I have been involved
>> in rescue for years).
>
>> Anyway, flame away. At least we'll get some good traffic
>> on this ng (other than from you know who), which will be
>> a pleasant change.
>
>> Just to elaborate: I do agree that if one can't guarantee
>> an APBT a decent amount of human contact then that dog
>> simply will not be happy. Period.
>> Finally, I'm not going to refer to Chrisman's specifically
>> until he feels comfortable talking about it (or unless
>> completely pressed).
>
>> Jeff
>
> Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.pitbull
> From: "Igloo" <spamcatc...@att.net>
> Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 18:27:20 -0000
> Subject: Re: For Usul...
>
>> her wiring went bad
>
> What is this supposed to mean?? Are dogs an
> electrical circuit that corrodes?
>
> You have no business owning dogs.
>
>> Vet tried talking me out of it, gave me options.
>
> And why didn't you take them? The vet knows a lot
> more about "wiring" than you do.
>
> You killed the dog for no other reason than
> your mumbo-jumbo psychology.
>
> Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.pitbull
> From: "Sandra" <sal...@sprint.ca>
> Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 16:06:44 -0500
> Subject: Re: For Usul...
>
> FYI...when a dog gets poisoned and they survive, they
> don't always keep the same temperment as they previously
> had.
>
> Sometimes they suffer mild brain damage not to mention
> other damage done internally to various organs.
>
> And if my vet thanked me for making the right decision,
> then I think he not only condoned my decision, but agreed
> with it!
>
> If you think putting my bitch down wasn't one of the
> hardest things I've ever done in my life with dogs,
> then you are seriously an ASSHOLE!!!
>
> Until you've walked a mile in someone else's
> RESPONSIBLE shoes...don't chastize anyone!!!!
>
> As for me having "no business owning dogs"...I think it's
> you who has no business. 13 years with this breed has
> taught me alot...not just about the breed, but about all
> dogs, their behaviour and the idiots who think they know
> it all! Like you!
>
> Sandra
>
> Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.pitbull
> From: <bluen...@tcsn.net>
> Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 10:29:11 -0800
> Subject: Re: For Usul...
>
> in article y6E78.192317$vH6.13263...@bin6.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com,
> #003 at elsan...@juno.com wrote on 2/4/02 2:41 PM:
>
> Yappety Yappety YAP YAP from a complete idiot who
> has obviously failed to learn Rule #2............
>
> Thou shalt not suffer a maneater to live............
>
>> why didn't you call me a fuckhead?
>> --
>> sancho
>
> Because you're several notches below the intellectual
> level of the average fuckhead , that's why.
>
> The average fuckhead is able to figure out that a dog
> that goes after kids completely without rhyme or reason
> is a liability both to the individual owner and to the
> breed as a whole.
>
> Chrisman exercised the ultimate responsibility, to
> himself, the dog and to the breed as a whole.
>
> Now crawl off his back you indescribable piece of
> nattering detritus.
>
> And fuck off , don't wait to do so. fuck off now
> while the time is ripe, almost as ripe as your bullshit.
>
> Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.pitbull
> From: "Igloo" <spamcatc...@att.net>
> Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 22:49:42 -0000
> Subject: Re: For Usul...
>
> You are so crude and ignorant I am surprised sancho
> continues to waste his time debating with you.
>
> He made some very valid points, and all you can do is
> type shit, assholes, ass and other profanities.
>
> You probably fancy yourself as a macho tough guy, but
> you come across as an illiterate.
>
> Newsgroups: alt.animals.dog
> From: Chrisman Dinnan <broco...@earthlink.net>
> Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 00:23:58 GMT
>
> Subject: Re: Help with leash training AmStaff
>
>> "Wendy Kubas" <wcku...@webtv.net> wrote in message
>> news:13092-3BEB0FFE-153@storefull-241.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
>> > Hi,My name is Wendy, I'm new to this
>> > disscussion board and webtv so please
>> > bear with me. My problem is this...
>> I would take him to puppy obedience. It's
>> a great help and gives you a good foundation.
>
> Wendy,
>
> I have a two and a half year old American Pitbull
> Terrier and, to a degree, I can sympathize with
> the issues that you are having.
>
> The good news is, as I'm sure you already know,
> this is a great, loving and affectionate breed;
> handsome loyal, trustworthy. Watch them around
> other dogs though...
>
> Anyway, pulling is part of this breeds personality.
> To a certain extent, it would kinda be like taking
> the white out of rice...see my point??
>
> Puppy classes is a great idea. This breed is
> very intelligent and very trainable.
>
> With a kind but firm hand you can mold this dog
> into THE ideal pet.
>
> If you don't mind me asking, what research did you
> do on this breed before your purchase??
>
> I only seek to ascertain your level of knowledge
> about this breed so I don't give advice that you
> already know.
>
> Good Luck!!
>
> Chrisman
>
> DOG TRAININ AIN'T LUCK, DOG ABUSERS.
>
> Punishment Deranges Behavior.
> "NO!" Does NOT Have Any Behavioral Function
> EXCEPT
> To DERANGE Behaviors.
>
> Here's professor dermer pryor:
>
> From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
> Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
> Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST
>
> And how do we know this aspect of his
> advice is right?
>
> Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
> His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.
>
> (Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
> few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
> ill-mannered, or just plain ill.\ufffd),
>
> --Marshall
>
> "At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
> But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
> shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
> then you will have achieved too things.
>
> First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
> and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.
>
> How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
> minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
> biting.
>
> **********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************
>
> When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
> forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
> closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
> before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).
>
> "No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
> to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
> dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
> UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.
>
> BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!
>
> That's INSANE. Ain't it.
>
> Here's professor dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:
>
> "We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People Should
> Come To Their Senses And Support Your Valuable Work.
> God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall Dermer,
> Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI.
>
> From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
> To: "The Puppy Wizard"
> <ThePuppyWiz...@earthlink.net>
> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM
>
> Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
> Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,
>
> I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
> and now must applaud your attempts to save
> animals from painful training procedures.
>
> You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent\ufffd,
> who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts \ufffdto
> alert the world to animal abuse.
>
> We are lucky to have you, and more people should
> come to their senses and support your valuable
> work.
>
> Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
> charity to fund your important work?
> Have you thought about holding a press conference
> so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
> and significant work?
>
> In closing, my only suggestion is that you
> try to keep your messages short for most
> readers may refuse to read a long message
> even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
> I wish you well in your endeavors.
>
> --Marshall Dermer
>
> Subject: < BEFORE -> "Jerry, You filthy, Unctuous,
> No Good Charlatan,"
>
> < AFTER -> "Thank You Jerry For Putting Up With
> A Constant Barrage Of Really Infantile
> Crap At The Hands Of Supposedly Adult
> Dog Lovers.
>
> 'Naive' Is Believing You Can Terrorize
> A Dog Into Good Behavior," Robert Crim.
>
>>Subject: Re: Fritz---a retrospective
>>Date: 02/05/1999
>>Author: Robert Crim <fritzg...@earthlink.net>
>> You filthy, unctuous, no good charlatan. If you had
>> any idea of what dogs and dog people were about
>> you would realize the depths of the absolute loathing
>> and contempt I hold for you right now. Were it not
>> for the blessed distance and anonymity that the internet
>> gives us from the scummy likes of you, I would probably
>> be in a jail cell right now for turning you into the pile
>> of shit you really are
>
> Hey, Howe, you really are a wacko, eh?
>
> Crim wrote this about *YOU,* you insipid piece of cow dung!
>
> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
> --
> Dogman
> mailto:dog...@i1.net
> http://www.i1.net/~dogman
>
> =====================
>
>> On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:24:15 -0700, dogsnus
>
> <"Terri"@cyberhighway> Wrote:>
>
>> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
>> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
>> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
>> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
>> come forward and actually believe in his training manual.
> Robert Crim writes:
>
> I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
> since I freely admit to having read and, I hope,
> understood enough of the manual and it's counterparts by
> John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
> and use it.
>
> This naive child would like to say thank you to both
> Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
> of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
> adult dog lovers.
>
> The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
> nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
> earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
> of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
> given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
> gasped his last gasp.
>
> To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.
>
> Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
> names are more honest than people that use their real
> names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
> and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
> are the equal or better than those that have studied and
> lived by their craft for decades.
>
> "Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
> level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
> that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
> going to just go away because you people act like fools.
>
> Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
> don't really care.
>
>> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
>> actually admit to buying and having success with his
>> little black box.
>
> I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
> take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
> testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
> never know.
>
>> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
>> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
>> to him! LOL!
>
> I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
> Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
> eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.
>
>>Terri
>
> Yes it was, and that is sad.
>
> Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
> listen to the box first?)
>
> ===========
>
> Crim wrote THAT about *YOU,* tommy, "you insipid piece of cow dung!"
>
> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
>
> From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
> To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@mail.com>
> Subject: Alleged Professors of Animal Behavior
> Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:50:51 -0400
>
> Dear Jerry, I paged through some of the "dog business"
> and was astonished at the low quality of opinions arising
> from professors of behavior analysis.
>
> I had the very great privilege of meeting Sam Corson
> (Pavlov's last Ph.D. student) and his dogs at Ohio
> University. I even got to spend a night at Sam's house.
>
> There is no question but that you are a spiritual brother
> to Corson and to Pavlov, both of whom knew that the dog's
> great capacity for love was the key to shaping doggie behavior.
>
> Paradoxical reward and paradoxical fixing of attention are
> both well documented Pavlovian techniques. Even so humorless
> a chap as B.F. Skinner taught students like the Breland's whose
> "The Misbehavior of Organisms" demonstrate the utility of your
> methods and their deep roots in scientific (as opposed to
> commercial) psychology.
>
> George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
> you may find my resume in Who's Who in
> Science and Technology
>
>
>



Marika
2005-12-04 10:06:47 EST

mac wrote:
> Please learn to spell correctly, then come back and post your message.

Thanks. Keep us posted. I am trying to be patient; but it is a tough
blow
to weather.

mk5000

"et inanis,
rota tu volubilis,
status malus,
vana salus "--o fortuna, carl orff


Mershey
2005-12-04 12:06:46 EST

marika wrote:
> mac wrote:
> > Please learn to spell correctly, then come back and post your message.
>
> Thanks. Keep us posted. I am trying to be patient; but it is a tough
> blow
> to weather.
>


Hope you enjoy these thoughts. The discussion reminds me of the time
my (then)
eighth grade daughter asked us: "Daddy, when you were in the eighth
grade,
what did you like to cook in the microwave oven?".


Marika
2005-12-05 17:57:16 EST

Mershey wrote:
> >
>
>
> Hope you enjoy these thoughts. The discussion reminds me of the time
> my (then)
> eighth grade daughter asked us: "Daddy, when you were in the eighth
> grade,
> what did you like to cook in the microwave oven?".

I thought you had her for alot longer than 10 years.

mk5000

"As he folds me in his arm,
When I snuggle somewaht closer,
While he shields me from all harm.
There's a kiss or two you know"--My Automobile Boy
words and music by M.N. Hinds, copyright 1901 by Ben Chadwick

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