Dog Discussion: Please Give Me Advice~*

Please Give Me Advice~*
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±è³²Èñ
2005-09-21 23:51:38 EST
Hello everyone~!
i wonder my dog's symphom.
my dog species is pekinese.
when i hold my dog and try to make her
stand up, she screams~!
could it be that she has problem??
maybe she has her waist dislocated,,,
please give some advice on this*^^*



Michael A. Ball
2005-09-22 09:02:13 EST
On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:51:38 +0900, "±è³²Èñ" <kimstring@naver.com> wrote:

>Hello everyone~!
>i wonder my dog's symphom.
>my dog species is pekinese.
>when i hold my dog and try to make her
>stand up, she screams~!
>could it be that she has problem??
>maybe she has her waist dislocated,,,
>please give some advice on this*^^*

How old is your dog? Is your dog over weight? How long has your dog had this problem? Has
you dog jumped or fallen from a high place recently? Has anyone stepped on your dog? Can
your dog get onto her/his feet, when she wants to do so? Is your dog's breathing labored?

There is so much we don't know. Even the wisest person here can only speculate about what
the problem might be.

The best advice? Take your dog to your veterinarian this morning.

Whatever it takes.

A*@HushMail.Com
2005-09-22 09:48:22 EST
HOWEDY ±è³²Èñ,

That's a tough enough name to SPELL let alone pronounce.

±è³²Èñ wrote:
> Hello everyone~!
>
> i wonder my dog's symphom.
>
> my dog species is pekinese.

A dog is a dog.

> when i hold my dog and try to make her stand up, she screams~!

Either she's HURT or you're mishandling her.

> could it be that she has problem??

She EITHER don't TRUST you or she's SICK/HURT.

> maybe she has her waist dislocated,,,

Could be. Does she have any SYMPTOMS when
you're not forcing her to stand?

> please give some advice on this*^^*

Could be she needs a vet. OtherWIZE, you need
to learn how to pupperly handle and train her.


<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>


P*@MuchoMail.Com
2005-09-22 10:42:27 EST
HOWEDY michael,

Michael A. Ball wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 12:51:38 +0900, "±è³²Èñ" <kimstring@naver.com> wrote:
>
> >Hello everyone~!
> >i wonder my dog's symphom.
> >my dog species is pekinese.
> >when i hold my dog and try to make her
> >stand up, she screams~!
> >could it be that she has problem??
> >maybe she has her waist dislocated,,,
> >please give some advice on this*^^*
>
> How old is your dog?

That's IRRELEVENT.

> Is your dog over weight?

That's IRRELEVENT.

> How long has your dog had this problem?

That's IRRELEVENT.

> Has you dog jumped or fallen from a high place recently?

She'd have taken him to the VET if she thought she'd been HURT.

> Has anyone stepped on your dog?

That's IRRELEVENT.

> Can your dog get onto her/his feet,

If he couldn't stand on his own she'd have SAID that.

> when she wants to do so?

The dog ONLY cries when she tries to pick him up.

> Is your dog's breathing labored?

She'd have taken her dog to the VET if his
breathing or other signs were abnormal.

> There is so much we don't know.

There's SO MUCH YOU don't know, michael.

> Even the wisest person here

Like yourself, dogman and pawman?

> can only speculate about what the problem might be.

No, we can figure out what the problem is nearly instantly.

> The best advice?

You hurt intimidate and murder dogs, michael.

> Take your dog to your veterinarian this morning.

The dog won't allow her to PICK HIM UP. That means
the dog will PROBABLY BITE HER or the vet when they
touch him. The vet will EXAMINE the dog and if he
finds NOTHING WRONG will probably recommend MURDERING
the dog for having a BAD TEMPERAMENT. Like you do.

> Whatever it takes.

What it takes is MORE BRAINS than you got, michael.

HOWEDY michael,

Michael A. Ball wrote:
> On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 12:17:07 -0400, Wolf Halton
> <arrowstar2000@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> >There is so much trolling going on,

INDEEDY. Look at the scumbags talkin abHOWET The
Amazing Puppy Wizard and SHELTER and RESCUE in
the same post.

> >seems like it is hard to make sense of half the posts.

There's a lotta HISTORY you gotta know to UNDERSTAND
what's GOIN DHOWEN here abHOWETS. The TRUTH is STRANGER
than FICTION. DECENT PEOPLE CANNOT BELIEVE WHAT THEY
READ HERE. IT's BEYOND BELIEF that RESCUE and SHELTER
DOG LOVERS are THE CAUSE of SHELTERS and RESCUE
organizations that MURDER seven million dogs in USA
every year and it's GOIN UP thanks to ETHICKAL BREEDERS
and SHELTER and RESUCE organizations.

> >Somebody educate this newbie. Please!...

These DOG LOVERS MAKE MONEY off of HURTING
INTIMIDATING and MURDERING innocent critters.
LOOK UP racetrack silly and lying "I LOVE
KOEHLER" lynn's WORK HISTORY in "RESCUE".

THEY MAKE THEIR LIVINS HURTIN INTIMDIATIN
and MURDERIN DOGS FOR PLEASURE.

> This group is not owned by anyone.

These ARE The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Forums and School Of HARD KNOCKS and
HUMAN BEHAVIOR RESEARCH LABORATORIES.

You're settin in it. Take off your shoes.
RELAAAXXX. Care for a stick of gum? Smoke
'm if you got 'm <{: ~ ) >

> In my opinion, it is one of the most
> important news groups there is.

INDEED... on accHOWENT of THIS IS HOWE COME WE GOT
"SHELTERS and RESCUES" that MURDER INNOCENT CRITTERS,
like HOWE YOU DO, michael <{): ~ ( >

Here's you murderin innocent critters for FUN and PROFIT:

From: "Michael A. Ball" <Guard...@wireco.net>
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 22:35:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Ethical Dilemma (Son bitten by dog
in schoolyard) (long)

"AussieResc" <aussier...@aol.com> wrote>

> I find this amazing that someone who posts on a
> board for rescue would have this attitude.
> Pat

This NG is specifically for dog rescue. I hate cats and never
give a cat an even break--unless they just happen to break
in the middle.

When I started to work at the animal shelter, cleaning kennels,
I was asked if I liked cats. I replied enthusiastically, "Yes,
if they are cooked right!"

I've never had to work with the cats! :-)

We're all different.

Michael

From: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net> -
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 18:52:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Symphony rests in Peace.

Hello michael,

"Michael A. Ball" <Guard...@wireco.net> wrote in message
news:tp01k9kg212nfe@corp.supernews.com...

> As expected, Symphony, the 12 week old puppy, bite case, was
> euthanized today.

No she wasn't euthanized, she was MURDERED, because
you do that stuff to dogs for a living for yourself.

You're part of the problem, michael.

> He won't be startled, terrified or confused anymore.

That IS reassuring, michael. Is that what your 'boss' told you?

> I like to believe he has perfect hearing now.

I'd prefer you'd take his place.

> Thanks to everyone who made recommendations, and offered
> insight, prayers and encouragement.

BWWWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!! YOU KILL DOGS FOR A LIVING, michael.

> I understood the liability issue long before meeting
> Symphony, but Lynn K.'s experience

Your pal lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn is a pathological
liar MENTAL CASE and notorious dog abuser, you puke.

> with a $30K settlement was a sobering thought.

What would be sobering would be to THINK about what you're doing.

> Still, if there was anyway to nullify that liability
> and have this puppy adopted, I wanted to find it.

Sorry mikey, you just don't have the knowHOWE.

> As Catherine Yronwode well knows, being the guardian of
> a deaf dog requires considerable adjustment for everyone
> involved.

Ask cindymooreon about the tremendous handicap deafness is.
She can't even hear her dogs scream when she pinches and twists
their ears and toes and shocks and jerks and chokes them on her
pronged spiked pinch choke collar, mikey. That's sad, isn't it?

> Even if the shelter had agreed to attempt finding
> a home for > Symphony, it would not have been easy.

Looking in the mirror couldn't be EZ for you, mikey.
Why do you come here with your tripe? Get the heel
outta here. This forum is for people who want to HELP
dogs, not HELP KILL THEM.

Maybe you and janet and john richardson and the bobsey
twins lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn and cindymooreon will
get together on a nice dog killing forum?

> In fact, there is no guarantee we could have found a
> suitable home.

I guarantee you couldn't find your butt in the dark with
both hands even if you had a couple Thugs helping.

> I'm not sure if the system worked or failed,

What the heel kind of crap are you spouting?
YOU KILL DOGS FOR A LIVELIHOOD.

> but I am sure there will always be plenty of dogs that
> need extra attention.

Yes mike. And your killing machine is warmed up
and ready to kill them too, with your expert help,
mikey. Thanks.

> I petted two or three of them today.

Well, aren't you the nice guy? Did you hold Symphony
and wisper LIES in her ear? Oh, I forgot, her only
problem was she can't hear. Good reason to have killed
her, mikey. Good work.

> Again, thanks to everyone who helped me with this event.

Oh, you are ever so welcome, mikey.

> Michael
> Guard...@wireco.net

Guardian? Of WHAT? The rendering plant you sell the dead animals to?

> Jerry Howe, Puppy Wizard

You mean The Amazing Puppy Wizard, michael <{); ~ ) >

> and many other pseudonyms

The Amazing Puppy Wizard NEVER posts anonymHOWESLY.

> are all the same person.

INDEED?

> His rants are often very sparsely sprinkled with logic;

The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Students ALL OVER The Whole Wild World
REPORT CURING ALL temperament and behavior problems
NEARLY INSTANTLY and FOR FREE, to boot.

Seems THAT would put most of HOWER SHELTER and RESCUE
DOG LOVERS HOWETA THE MURDERING FEARFUL DOGS BUSINESS.

Wouldn't it, michael.

> otherwise he's just a waste of bandwidth.

YOU HURT INTMIIDATE and MURDER INNOCENT CRITTERS FOR
FUN and PROFIT, and The Amazing Puppy Wizard QUOTES
YOUR OWN WORDS to PROVE IT, michael. You're a MENTAL
CASE, like diddler and lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn
amongst MANY others postin here abHOWETS... like
Wolf, perhaps. WE'LL SEE what he's made of, michael,
unless he just chickens HOWET and never posts here
abHOWETS again NHOWE that The Amazing Puppy Wizard
has caused him to IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE and DISCREDIT
HISSELF TO HISSELF, on accHOWENT of THAT is HUMAN
NATURE.

> Occasionally, someone will stumble in and just
> can't resist trying to strike up a thread about
> J.H.

Yeah. They post in to say "THANK YOU The Amazing
Puppy Wizard your METHOD SAVED MY DOG'S LIFE. G-D
BLESS YOU!" and then they never post again on
accHOWENT of they NEVER HAVE BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS.

> They often quote his entire posts-

INDEED. There's LOTS of VALUABLE INFORMATION in
EVERY WON of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Posts.

> -which are often long and pointless.

They MIGHT SEEM POINTLESS if you didn't follow
the players, michael. Like your own posted case
hitory, FOR EXXXAMPLE. If WON didn't KNOW you
was a lying dog abusing punk thug coward mental
case they MIGHT THINK you was a DOG RESCUE and
SHELTER WORKER SAVIN DOGS and KATS LIVES, eh?

BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAA!!!

> When these folks persist after they've
> been advised against doing so, I filter
> them, too.

INDEED. EMBARRASSIN, AIN'T IT, michael.

> This is a good to superior group,

Seems MOST of your posts are WARNIN folks
NOT TO BELIEVE The Amazing Puppy Wizard
when HE QUOTES YOU HURTING INTIMIDATING
and MURDERING innocent critters for FUN
an PROFIT, eh michael?

DON'T FORGET to WARN Wolf abHOWET snippin
cross posts to AVOID EMBARRASSMENT <{); ~ ) >

> but you must be able to use your filter.

INDEED. And you'd have to be a DOG ABUSER
to continue postin here abHOWETS on accHOWENT
of "Birds of a feather sleep together. When
you LIE with PIGS you'll awaken STINKIN LIKE
'm. You're JUDGED BY the company you keep.
When you GET BAGGED FOR LYING you're MARKED
FOR LIFE," The Puppy Wizard's DADDY <{); ~ ) >

> You have to love the sound of the line,

INDEED? PERHAPS the SILENCE in between is sweeter?

> more than you love the sound of your own drum.-
> -Drumline

Well then, The Amazing Puppy Wizard will allHOWE
a dog abuser to P-HOWEND HIS drum FOR HIM. This
bum HURT INTIMIDATED and MURDERED HIS OWN DEAD
DOG for TURNIN ON HIM:

>14. Michael Erskine Aug 18 2004, 12:55 pm
> From: osi...@deltaville.net (Michael Erskine)
> Date: 18 Aug 2004 09:55:49 -0700 Local:
> Subject: Re: This is howe to complain -- and
> where to complain [Ninnyboy]

>"Sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
><news:2oebekF9et41U1@uni-berlin.de>... >

> > > Well, if you bitch to AOL they will trace down
> > > the IP addresses and > > figure out which accHOWENT
> > > is doing it and TURN OFF THE accHOWENT....

> > > GET IT?

>> Yes, Michael, I "HAD IT" before you ever started
>> this thread. It's simply > not worth my effort.

> Kill file me then. Works with Jerry, right?

> >Sionnach, do what you choose. But let me repeat what
> I already said once. His posts drive off sincere people
> who want reasonable advice about problems with their dogs.

michael was havin TRHOWEBLE alphalpha rollin his
dog withHOWET gettin BIT. He came here lookin to
learn HOWE to PUPPERLY HURT and INTIMDIATE his GSD.

> He defeats his own purpose if he will crusade
> against putting a dog down,

SHHHAAAZZZAAAMMM???

> he needs to realize that the people who have
> problems with their dogs,

They HAVE those PROBLEMS on accHOWENT of HOWER
EXXXPERTS teach them HOWE to HURT INTIMDIATE
BRIBE CRATE SURGICALLY SEXUALLY MUTILATE and
MURDER innocent critters.

> and who fail to find a helpful resourse, are
> the ones who put their dogs down.

Seems THOSE dog lovers DON'T LIKE The Amazing
Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual on accHOWENT of IT SEZ you CAN'T HURT INTIMDIATE
BRIBE CRATE and SURGICALLY SEXUALLY MUTILATE dogs
or you'll end up MURDREIN some of 'm like HOWE
michael and michale DONE.

> Those people, the ones who come here to seek advice
> from the supposed experts, don't have Jeryy in their
> killfile.

RIGHT. The Amazing Puppy Wizard doesn't write
for the DOG ABUSERS like yourselfs, HE writes
for the NEW readers to IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE and
DISCREDIT these lying dog abusing punk thug
coward MENTAL CASES.

DECENT PEOPLE DO NOT POST HERE abHOWETS.

>Therefore it takes them about ten seconds to get Jerry's message

You mean, THIS message, michael?:

Here's your FREE copy of The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?G 34D2527A

Just ASK The Amazing Puppy Wizard if you
need any additional FREE heelp. There's NO
arbritrary INFORMATION in your FREE copy
of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual so
study it well and do and follow ALL the
EXXXERCISES AS INSTRUCTED... it's a
PRECISE SCIENCE or it COULDN'T GET 100%
CONSISTENT NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS for
all handlers and all dogs in all fields
or utilities and behaviors all over the
Whole Wild World <{) ; ~ ) >

>and run for cover.

Naaah. They run to STUDY it and THEN
they RUN BACK RIGHT HERE TO REPORT
their 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANT
SUCCESS.

HOWER DOG LOVERS CALL THEM LIARS and FORGERIES.

> How many of them MIGHT have contacted
> you or some other competent person

michael is askin sinofabitch?

Here's HER ALPHALPHA ROLL that michael NEEDS
to do to TRAIN his dog to RESPECT HIM:

HOWEDY sinofabitch,

"Sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:bvtf67$106jeh$1@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...

> <yawn> Once again- that's NOT a quote
> from any post of mine; JH "wrote" it, not me.

No, that's a flat HOWET lie, sinofabich. It's a
direct quote from YOU, with exception of TWO
WORDS, "smartly" and "neatly."

> It's quotes from two different posts, by two
> different people -

ONLY if you're SCHIZOPHRENIC, sinofabitch.

> both taken out of context-

YOU'RE A LIAR.

We got your original post in The Puppy
Wizard's Archives.

You'll see your own words EXXXACTLY as
QUOTED. And we'll likeWIZE see you DENYING
your own words in three different ways!!!

> and with extra wording added in by a third person.

NO. YOU'RE A LIAR.

The ONLY "extra words" SMARTLY and NEATLY,
were INDEEDY, added by The Puppy Wizard, HOWEver
they were NOT SIGNIFICANT, except for poetic license:

You're a liar and a dog abuser and a MENTAL CASE:

"When it was obvious that she had NO intention
of paying any attention to anything but the other
dogs (and that I was in danger of having my arm
dislocated <G>), I didn't even think about it; I
dropped the leash, threw my right arm over the
Lab's shoulder, grabbed her opposite foot with
my left hand, rolled her on her side, leaned on
her, said "GRRRR!" and nipped her ear (not
particularly hard- I wasn't trying to *hurt* her, just
get her attention!)."

From: Sionnach (rhyfe...@msn.com)
Subject: Re: I dropped the leash!
Date: 2003-12-15 07:55:16 PST

> "I Dropped The Leash, Threw My Right Arm
> Over The Lab's Shoulder, Grabbed Her Opposite
> Foot With My Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
> Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into Her Throat
> And Said "GRRRR!" And Neatly Nipped Her Ear,"

<yawn> That's not a quote written by me, kiddo.
That's an amalgam of two different people's posts,
with extra words added by Jerry.

From: Sionnach (rhyfe...@msn.com)
Subject: Re: another question from me and joy?

Date: 2002-04-10 19:40:33 PST

"BethF" wrote:
> I don't think any of our regulars bite their dogs ears
> to leash train them.

He's repeating one of Jerry's confabulations...
I did, once, lightly nip a seriously out-of-control,
temper-tantruming Labrador on the ear to get her attention.

It had fuck-all to do with leash training though, and
everything to do with getting through to an incredibly
hard-headed, tough-minded, and spoiled-rotten dog
that A. she was NOT going to physically control me
the way she had every other female human she'd
dealt with and B. that I was worth paying attention to.

It came up in a discussion where someone else
mentioned having nipped a terrier puppy who
wouldn't stop play-biting. In both cases, it was a
one-time instinctive response to an unusual situation.

--------------------

sinofabitch writes:
> >> What I have said- repeatedly - is that he took
> >> posts from two different people,

THAT'S A LIE.

> >> took pieces of them out of context,

THAT'S A LIE.

> >> cobbled them together,

THAT'S A LIE.

> >> then added his own words:

"Neatly," and "Smartly."

> >> and a fake signature.

"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.

> >> Which is exactly what he did.

INDEED...

> >> The actual quote is misleading

THAT SO?

> >> when taken out of context, and Jerry's
> >> faked "quote" is downright meaningless.

> >Here's Jerry's version

> > "I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
> > Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
> > Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
> > Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
> > Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
> > Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
> > Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.

> > Here's yours;

> > "I dropped the leash, threw my
> > right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
> > grabbed her opposite foot with my
> > left hand, rolled her on her side,
> > leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
> > nipped her ear.
> > --Sara Sionnach

BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!

From: sionnach (rhyfe...@email.msn.com)
Subject: Re: Correct use of prong collar
Date: 2001-05-05 13:03:14 PST

> And Sally responded:
> >Who said that? I would never do or recommend
> >that, and neither would most of the regulars on here.
> >Sally Hennessey

> I've posted my entire quote, since Patch failed to do so.
> Take it out of context and you'd think I was flinging puppies
> across the room!

> here's what I said (keep in mind that we're talking about a
> 12 week old ~25# FCR puppy):

> A small scruff shake is appropriate if he's
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> very persistant.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Um, may I suggest a re-wording that might make
it clearer- given that "scruff shake" is too easily
misinterpreted as "pick the puppy up by the scruff
of the neck and shake the puppy in the air"?

I think I'd phrase it something like "if the puppy is very
persistant, it can be appropriate to take hold of the
loose skin at the back of the neck and give a slight
shake to the *skin*".

Janet's not talking about actually shaking
the puppy, which I think we ALL agree is
abusive."

> and been forwarded to a competent trainer for help,

Like janet boss, sionnach's PARTNER?:

"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828.07753.00000001@mb-m18.aol.com...

> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.

> Janet Boss

"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...

> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916.10096.00001938@mb-m17.aol.com...

> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.

An INSENSITIVE DOG???

> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.

---------------------

> but instead gave up and took the problem dog
> to the vet to be put down?

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHHAHHAAA!!!

Read "interested in hearing" where janet IGNORED
two shock systems that made the litte dog FEAR
AGGRESSIVE of visitors. She told the people to
jerk and choke and shock and murder IT.

> You see, sionnach, many of them come here AFTER
> EXHAUSTING all other options.

TO LEARN HOWE TO HURT INTIMDIATE AND MURDER THEIR
FEAR AGGRESSIVE DOGS, like michael and michael done.
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHHAA!!!

>Jerry, stifles reasonable discourse.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard has PROVEN you AIN'T
GOT THE RIGHT to HURT INTIMDIATE and MURDER
innocent dogs for your own defective ego's.

> He has been doing that in these forums for five years.

FEELS LIKE FOREVER, don't it.

>It's time for that to stop.

michael, like MOST new posters here, NEED to
have their FEARS REINFORCED so they can FEEL
GOOD abHOWET HURTING INTIMDIATING and MURDERIN
their own dogs, like HOWE michael an michael DONE.

> If you do not have the strength to handle the
> "big dog", don't.

THAT'S HOWE COME THESE DOG ABUSING MENTALLY
ILL LYING PUNK THUG COWARDS WARN FOLKS TO
KILLFILE The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >

> I don't blame you.

INDEED. sinofabitch and her punk thug coward
mental case pals are PROVEN LYING DOG ABUSING
MENTAL CASES who PRAY on dog abusing cowards
like michael erskin and dr john bennett.

BWEEEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHHAHAA!!

> You have to stay here, I am just passing thru.

INDEED... JUST LIKE Wolf, eh Wolf?


Pawman
2005-09-23 19:48:02 EST
Originally posted 21 Sep 05

Still waiting for your reply Jerry.....

Jerry


Your last post was full of the usual accusations directed at me, so far

you have accused me (a SGT Police Dog Handler with 26 yrs experience in

the Royal Australian Air Force) of;


Lying,
Deception,
Criminal Misconduct,
Dog Abuse/ animal cruelty,
Murder,
Fraud,
Missappropriation of government funds, and
the list goes on.


Some of these offences are criminal offences and if found guilty the
perpetrator could receive serious prison time.


So what are you going to do about it Jerry. Any normal person who
could prove those things about a person is legally and morally bound to

act upon that information. And if you are aware of these things
happening and you fail to act upon that information then you too are
guilty of a criminal offence, both in Australia and in the US.


So are you just going to threaten to inform the authorities or are you
actually going to do what any normal, sane balanced human being would
do and act upon these so called facts.


What I'm saying to you Jerry (in case you don't understand) is that if
you want to prove that everything you have said is right and that the
accusations you have made about me are valid then all you have to do is

be a man of your word and follow through on your threats to 'tell the
authorities'.


Hell Jerry I am pleading with you to do it. If you think you can prove

even just one of the criminal accusations you have made against me then

you have my permission to do what all the normal people on this list
would consider the right thing.......


However if you do not follow through with your threats to 'bring me to
justice'.,,, then at least the readers of this list will know that;


1. You are indeed the piss wizard who is all talk and no action,


2. When you accuse people of being so called dog abusers that you are
too gutless to do anything about them, which would make you complicit
with them, or worse then them because you are allowing it to continue.


3. That you are unable to back up a single claim you make.... although

you attempt to convince people that you have conclusive proof.


4. That if you are unable to follow through with your threats and
proove your accusations, then people will see that you are a fraud.


If however you do follow through with your threats and manage to make
your complaints then that will be a win/win situation for me because
that will achieve exactly the same result. I have nothing to lose
because I have nothing to hide, because nothing you say has any
credibility or factual basis.... maybe in your head it does, maybe on
this list you can convince non-professionals that that your fantasy
world is real.....


So now it's all up to you Jerry....


1. Are you going to dodge the issue and start coming up with pathetic
excuses why you can't do what you said you could do?


2. Are you going to try and back off gracefully by saying that that
you have already discredited me? (a cop out for sure) (My moneys on
this one folks :) But even doing that would show that you did not do
what you said you could do.


3. Are you a man or are you (as we all suspect) full of shit?


So don't avoid this Jerry... size this opportunity that I am handing
you on a silver platter.... to walk away now would completely destroy
your credibility with all the list readers.


If you do make a complaint, which I sincerely hope you do, I will know
about it within 5 working days of that complaint hitting Australia.


So come on Jerry, take this opportunity to prove yourself and to
discredit me. I dare you, I double dare you. Please Jerry do it.


Show all the people on this list what sort of amn you really are. Show

them you are a man of principle and that when you make an accusation
that it is factually based and legally provable. Show them that when
you accuse someone of being a dog abuser, a murderer, a fraud that you
can actually prove what you are saying. Show them you are a decent
human being who takes morally correct actions to correct injustices,...

and not just a lying piece of shit.


The balls in your court Jerry......


Grant waits to see what pathetic excuses Jerry makes up to fail to act.



Watch this space folks.... you are about to see Jerry dodge and weave
and make all the excuses he can think of to avoid showing himself up
for what he truly is.


Regards,
Grant "The Paw Man' Teeboon
Police Dog Handler - RAAF
26 yrs service
ICQ# 12854070


M*@MUCHOMAIL.COM
2005-09-24 16:46:09 EST
HOWEDY grant,

Pawman wrote:
> Originally posted 21 Sep 05

> Still waiting for your response jerry.......

I'm still waiting for you to DEFEND yourself, grant.

> Jerry

> Your last post was full of the usual accusations directed at me,

You mean the ones you REFUSE to DEFEND yourself from?

> so far you have accused me (a SGT Police Dog Handler
> with 26 yrs experience in the Royal Australian Air
> Force) of;

> Lying,
> Deception,
> Criminal Misconduct,
> Dog Abuse/ animal cruelty,
> Murder,
> Fraud,
> Missappropriation of government funds, and
> the list goes on.

And I've PROVEN IT, grant.

> Some of these offences are criminal offences

AS STATED.

> and if found guilty the perpetrator could receive
> serious prison time.

I'd prefer you were simply given a dishonorable
discharge and ordered not to come into contact
with any children or dogs, like they do with
ordinary peodiphiles and child abusers.

> So what are you going to do about it Jerry.

I've already EXXXPOSED and DISCREDITED you based
on your own posted case history, grant. What more
would you LIKE?

> Any normal person

The Amazing Puppy Wizard is NOT NORMAL otherWIZE
he'd be believing you and wm koehler like the
rest of these dog abusing mental cases who choke
shock crate intimidate bribe and murder innocent
defenseless dumb critters, grant.

> who could prove those things about a person
> is legally and morally bound to act upon that
> information.

I've been workin on it, grant. When I drop
the hammer on the entire industry, you'll
be among the first to know, TRUST ME, grant.

> And if you are aware of these things happening

You've left a paper trail, grant. I have NO NEED
to "PROVE" anything, grant, you've done it all
for me, thankyourverymuch!

> and you fail to act upon that information

You mean, by IDENTIFYING EXPOSING and DISCREDITING
you, grant? I've already DONE THAT, grant, using
YOUR OWN WRITTEN WORDS.

> then you too are guilty of a criminal offence,

Misery LOVES company, eh grant?

> both in Australia and in the US.

What I teach is universal, grant. There AIN'T NO
BOUNDARIES to decent morals ethics and principles.

> So are you just going to threaten to inform the authorities

Unfortunately, the "authorities" sanction what you do
to innocent defenseless dumb critters based on your
BRAIWASHING and self serving LIES, grant.

> or are you actually going to do what any
> normal, sane balanced human being would do

No, grant, AS STATED:

"The Amazing Puppy Wizard is NOT NORMAL otherWIZE
he'd be believing you and wm koehler like the
rest of these dog abusing mental cases who choke
shock crate intimidate bribe and murder innocent
defenseless dumb critters, grant."

> and act upon these so called facts.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard INTENDS to drop the
hammer on the entire industry in WON FELL SWOOP.

> What I'm saying to you Jerry (in case you don't
> understand) is that if you want to prove that
> everything you have said is right and that the
> accusations you have made about me are valid
> then all you have to do is be a man of your
> word and follow through on your threats to
> 'tell the authorities'.

Unfortunately, the "authorities" are the ones
RESPONSIBLE for entrusting you to hurt intimidate
murder innocent defenseless dumb critters and
have PROVIDED the venue for you to theive from
J.Q. Pubic, grant.

> Hell Jerry I am pleading with you to do it.

Permit me to requisition a large drum of GREASE, grant.

> If you think you can prove even just one of the
> criminal accusations you have made against me

I've PROVEN them ALL, as EVIDENCED by your steadfast
REFUSAL to DEFEND YOURSELF, you miserable dog abusing
coward.

> then you have my permission

BWEEEEAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAA!!!

> to do what all the normal people on this list
> would consider the right thing.......

You mean, IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE and DISCREDIT you
as a dog abusing punk thug coward and thief.

> However if you do not follow through with your
> threats to 'bring me to justice'.,,,

You'll be drawn and quarterd by the time I'm
done EXPOSING you, grant.

> then at least the readers of this list

You mean the like minded dog absusing cowards who
jerk choke shock and murder innocent defenseless
dumb critters, grant?

> will know that;

The "AUTHORITIES" are the same mentally ill
cowards as we got right here who APPROVE of
you hurting intimidating and murdering dogs,
grant.

> 1. You are indeed the piss wizard who is all
> talk and no action,

You're a dog abusing coward who cannot defend hisslef
like the other's here who WON'T TALK BUSINESS, grant.

> 2. When you accuse people

No, grant. I do not ACCUSE anyone of anything,
I PROVE IT IN WRITING, e.g., YOUR OWN WRITTEN
WORDS, grant.

> of being so called dog abusers

I've PROVEN IT, grant. Your FAILURE ratio
at WORK is EVIDENCE, grant.

> that you are too gutless to do anything about them,

Just leave that to The Amazing Puppy Wizard, grant.

> which would make you complicit with them,

Misery LOVES company, eh grant? What I'm doin to
you RIGHT HERE is MORE valuable than havin a LIKE
MINDED inspector general "investigate" your ABUSES.

> or worse then them because you are allowing it to continue.

You've got to be stopped, grant, and I know HOWE to DO IT.

> 3. That you are unable to back up a single claim
> you make....

You mean the "accusations" YOU REFUSE TO DEFEND yourself from?

> although you attempt to convince people that you
> have conclusive proof.

It's ALL in your own WRITTEN WORDS, grant.

> 4. That if you are unable to follow through with
> your threats and proove your accusations, then
> people will see that you are a fraud.

You mean, dog abusers LIKE YOURSELF, grant, the
preponderance of the "dog lovers" here, grant?

> If however you do follow through with your threats
> and manage to make your complaints then that will
> be a win/win situation for me because that will
> achieve exactly the same result.

No grant. J.Q. Pubic will hoist you from the
yardarms and THEN draw and quarter you and
your miserable ilk, grant.

> I have nothing to lose because

BECAUSE you and your ilk ARE HISTORY, grant.

> I have nothing to hide,

Because you're TOO STUPID to recognize that
what you do is CRIMINALLY INSANE, grant?

Is THAT gonna be your defense?

IT MAY WORK!

I'll vouch for your inability to THINK RATIONALIZE
and SOLVE PROBLEMS, grant. Perhaps the ones who
should be held RESPONSIBLE for your CRIMES are your
superiors and J.Q. Pubic hisself, grant.

> because nothing you say has any credibility or
> factual basis....

Sez you? BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAAAA!!!

WE GOT THE DEAD BODIES and PAPER TRAIL to PROVE IT, grant.

> maybe in your head it does,

Well then, better in MY head than yours, grant.
You don't seem to have any morals ethics or
principles, BASED ON YOUR OWN WRITTEN WORDS and
your job performance, grant. REMEMBER?

> maybe on this list you can convince non-professionals

You mean DECENT HUMAN BEINGS who don't JERK CHOKE
SHOCK and MURDER innocent defenseless dumb critters
to make themselves FEEL POWERFUL, you miserable dog
abusing coward?

> that that your fantasy world is real.....

That's where the DEAD BODIES and PAPER TRAIL come
in handily, grant.

> So now it's all up to you Jerry....

INDEED. As it always has been, grant.

> 1. Are you going to dodge the issue

Not at all, grant. If you recall, it's ME who
has been BEGGING YOU to DEFEND your vicious
actions and misapupriation of governement pupperty.

> and start coming up with pathetic excuses

I haven't made EXXXCUSES, grant. I've PROVEN you're
a dog abusing coward and your perpetual REFUSAL to
DEFEND YOUR METHODS proves it once again, grant.

> why you can't do what you said you could do?

Because you dog abusing cowards REFUSE TO TALK BUSINESS.

> 2. Are you going to try and back off gracefully by
> saying that that you have already discredited me?

Would you consider DEFENDING HURTING dogs as you do, grant?

> (a cop out for sure)

I'm here, you're the bugger HIDING from the TRUTH, grant.

> (My moneys on this one folks :)

Let's talk about you jerking choking and murdering dogs, grant?

> But even doing that would show that you did
> not do what you said you could do.

Let's TALK BUSINESS, grant. HOWE COME SAR dogs FAIL
to find simple searches as in the Jessica Lundren
and the lost scout in Utah and Elizabeth Smart and
them three boys accidentally locked in the trunk of
a car in New Jersey despite they was RIGHT UNDER
THEIR NOSES, grant? Not to mention the Chandra Levy
and Laura Hacking cases, grant, EZ FINDS for ANY
competently trained SAR dog, grant. Is your BUSINESS
PARTNER alpha sweeney still "training" SAR dogs
under your guidance and instruction,, grant?

HE COULDN'T EVEN FIND HIS OWN ESCAPED SAR DOG!

The REASON is because of YOUR METHODS, grant. Those
dogs REFUSED to alert on their FINDS because as soon
as they DO, they GO BACK IN THEIR BOXES and get no
more cookies and resume jerking choking and shocking
training in preparation for readiness for their next
search, grant.

> 3. Are you a man or are you (as we all suspect)

You mean "we all" being the jerk choke and shock
trainers who trained those SAR dogs to FAIL to find
those DEAD CHILDREN while they was STILL ALIVE, grant?

Perhaps you should look into those cases. I'll be
building my credibility ON THEIR DEAD ROTTEN CORPSES,
grant, and using the likes of you and your posted case
history AS EVIDENCE, grant.

> full of shit?

That's EZ for you to say because THAT'S YOUR
ONLY DEFENSE, grant. ISN'T IT. You REFUSE to
TALK BUSINESS because I've PROVEN EVERY THING.

> So don't avoid this Jerry...

Let's talk about HOWE COME a SAR dog would FAIL
to find an EZ foot track three hundred feet
distant from a KNOWN STARTING POINT and IGNORE
the SCENT seeping through a sieve like house
trailer, three hundred feet from the starting
poing OR STANDING RIGHT AT THE TRUNK OF THE
CAR with THREE LIVE CHILDREN still inside slowly
SUFFOCATING TO DEATH, grant?

There's ABSOLUTELY NO WAY to justify such malfeasances,
OTHER THAN that's the PREDICABLE RESPONSE of FEAR FORCE
INTIMIDATION and BRIBE TRAINED SAR dogs, grant.

> size this opportunity that I am handing you
> on a silver platter....

Seems I've got YOUR HEAD on MY silver platter, grant.

> to walk away now would completely destroy
> your credibility with all the list readers.

Would you be willing to TALK BUSINESS, grant?

HOWE COME SAR DOGS FAIL, grant?

Do you train BOMB DETECTION dogs the same way???

> If you do make a complaint,

The Amazing Puppy Wizard doesn't COMPLAIN, grant,
HE PROVES FACTS based on FORENSIC EVIDENCE.

> which I sincerely hope you do,

You're nuthin but a dog abusing coward, grant.

> I will know about it within 5 working days
> of that complaint hitting Australia.

You'll know within WON DAY of my reports hittin
the media, grant. I INTEND to drop the hammer on
you and your ilk BIG TIME, grant. You personally
are SMALL POTATOES, i.e. BUPPKIS, to The Amazing
Puppy Wizard and HIS grand scheme to IDENTIFY
EXPOSE and DISCREDIT abusers of innocent defenseles
dumb critters, grant.

> So come on Jerry, take this opportunity to prove
> yourself and to discredit me.

I've ALREADY DONE THAT, grant, as EVIDENCED by
your REFUSAL TO TALK BUSINESS, grant.

> I dare you, I double dare you.

Neener neener. You're havin a PSYCHOTIC REACTION,
grant. It's CALLED The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME,
it's the SAME RESPONSE your "HYPERACTIVE FRUIT-
LOOP DOGS" have when you jerk choke and shock
them, grant.

> Please Jerry do it.

What's your MOTIVE, grant? Are you trying to
GET OUT OF DUTY to a dangerous or less preferable
assignment by goin to miliary prison, grant?

That would FIT the NATURE of a NATURAL BORN COWARD.

> Show all the people on this list what sort of
> amn you really are.

The regular posters here are JUST LIKE YOU, grant,
they're dog abusing punk thug cowards and active
acute long term incurable MENTAL CASES who choke
shock crate bribe intimidate and MURDER dogs they
FEAR jerking choking shocking and intimidating
somemore, like you do, grant.

> Show them you are a man of principle and that when
> you make an accusation that it is factually based
> and legally provable.

I've been doin THAT since DAY WON, grant.

> Show them that when you accuse someone of being
> a dog abuser, a murderer, a fraud that you can
> actually prove what you are saying.

As I've BEEN DOIN, grant.

> Show them you are a decent human being who takes
> morally correct actions to correct injustices,...

As I've BEEN DOIN, grant.

> and not just a lying piece of shit.

Tsk tsk, it's YOU who REFUSES to TALK BUSINESS, grant.

> The balls in your court Jerry......

AS IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN, grant.

> Grant waits to see what pathetic excuses Jerry
> makes up to fail to act.

Let's TALK BUSINESS, grant:

Punishment Deranges Behavior.
"NO!" Does NOT Have Any Behavioral Function
EXCEPT
To DERANGE Behaviors.

Here's professor dermer pryor:

From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST

And how do we know this aspect of his
advice is right?

Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.

(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
ill-mannered, or just plain ill.­),

--Marshall

"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.

BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!

That's INSANE. Ain't it.

Here's professor dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:

"We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People Should
Come To Their Senses And Support Your Valuable Work.
God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall Dermer,
Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI.

From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<*.@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM

Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,

I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.
You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent­,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts ­to
alert the world to animal abuse.

We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.

Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?

In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.

--Marshall Dermer

Subject: < BEFORE -> "Jerry, You filthy, Unctuous,
No Good Charlatan,"

< AFTER -> "Thank You Jerry For Putting Up With
A Constant Barrage Of Really Infantile
Crap At The Hands Of Supposedly Adult
Dog Lovers.

'Naive' Is Believing You Can Terrorize
A Dog Into Good Behavior," Robert Crim.

>Subject: Re: Fritz---a retrospective
>Date: 02/05/1999
>Author: Robert Crim <fritzg...@earthlink.net>
> You filthy, unctuous, no good charlatan. If you had
> any idea of what dogs and dog people were about
> you would realize the depths of the absolute loathing
> and contempt I hold for you right now. Were it not
> for the blessed distance and anonymity that the internet
> gives us from the scummy likes of you, I would probably
> be in a jail cell right now for turning you into the pile
> of shit you really are

Hey, Howe, you really are a wacko, eh?

Crim wrote this about *YOU,* you insipid piece of cow dung!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman

=====================

> On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:24:15 -0700, dogsnus

<"Terri"@cyberhighway> Wrote:>

> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> come forward and actually believe in his training manual.
Robert Crim writes:

I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope,
understood enough of the manual and it's counterparts by
John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
and use it.

This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.

The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.

To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.

Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use their real
names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.

"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.

Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.

> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
> actually admit to buying and having success with his
> little black box.

I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.

> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
> to him! LOL!

I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.

>Terri

Yes it was, and that is sad.

Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)

===========

Crim wrote THAT about *YOU,* tommy, "you insipid piece of cow dung!"

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@mail.com>
Subject: Alleged Professors of Animal Behavior
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:50:51 -0400

Dear Jerry, I paged through some of the "dog business"
and was astonished at the low quality of opinions arising
from professors of behavior analysis.

I had the very great privilege of meeting Sam Corson
(Pavlov's last Ph.D. student) and his dogs at Ohio
University. I even got to spend a night at Sam's house.

There is no question but that you are a spiritual brother
to Corson and to Pavlov, both of whom knew that the dog's
great capacity for love was the key to shaping doggie behavior.

Paradoxical reward and paradoxical fixing of attention are
both well documented Pavlovian techniques. Even so humorless
a chap as B.F. Skinner taught students like the Breland's whose
"The Misbehavior of Organisms" demonstrate the utility of your
methods and their deep roots in scientific (as opposed to
commercial) psychology.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
you may find my resume in Who's Who in
Science and Technology

From: "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net>
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 17:26:31 GMT

Subject: Dr. George VonHilshimer Writes: "No Loving, No Learning."

HOWEDY People,

Perhaps the PROBLEM is "TOO MANY WORDS?"

From: "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net>
To: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 4:40 AM
Subject: Fw: Counter Cruising must stop

> From: "diannes" <dian...@bolt.sonic.net>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 12:18 PM
> Subject: Re: Counter Cruising must stop
> > LeeCharlesKelley <kelleymet...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > I wrote:
> > > > LeeCharlesKelley <kelleymet...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > > On another note: I understand why someone
> > > > > proclaiming a method that works on all dogs,
> > > > > all the time, would send up "red flag" to you
> > > > > and others, but the fact remains, if a technique
> > > > > *doesn't* work 100% of the time, with all dogs,
> > > > > then there must be a flaw in the philosophy
> > > > > underlying that technique.
> > > > Ditto for dog training. No failure nor flaw of method
> > > > is involved - that's just acceptance of reality.
> > > First of all, I didn't say that there was a flaw in the
> > > method, though anyone is welcome to make that
> > > leap.
> > > I said there was a flaw in the underlying philosophy
> > > and its model of learning.
> > Correction accepted. I think that perhaps we are using
> > terminology differently here. Here is my use of the terms:

Jerry, I don't know where you find these folk who can't read.

> In order to use negative reinforcement, one must
> typically administer the aversive stimulus in order
> to be able to terminate it.

This is not negative reinforcement. Negative means no.

Positive reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
reward emitted immediately by trainer;

Negative reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
no response by trainer;

Aversive reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
aversive stimuli emitted immediately by trainer;

The term "reinforcement is used only tentatively with
"aversion" because aversive stimuli (aka punishment)
typically derange learning and are not followed by clean
learning curves equivalent to those which follow reward
or positive reinforcement;

Escape conditioning = dog has an aversive stimulus
applied without any dog related reason and when
behavior is emitted aversive stim is immediately turned off .

There is some indication that Escape Conditioning
works in a manner closely approximating reward;
but, ear pinch? -- too aversive.

I remind you that you should beat them over the head
with "The Misbehavior of Organisms" by Breland and
Breland, published in B.F. Skinner's CUMULATIVE
RECORD. Ignored by most profs of psychology, but
the distillation of his work.

NO PUNISHMENT.

Must pay attention to who is the animal?

His evolution, his development, and his personal history -
cannot train without respect for who is the dog? So says
the BIG TIME operant conditioning guru - and you can also
refer back to MARY COVER JONES (mother of scientific
systematic psychology), no loving, no learning.

I suppose I could wire up a dog so that his brain was
badly interrupted and the loving method of puppy training
might not work well - but it would still work better than
the methods used by dominatrix and their ilk.

Lovingly applied ethological techniques like the one
espoused by the Wizard of ALL puppies work for all
dogs, for that matter for all mammals higher than cat.

Indeed, they will work for cats if trainer is warmly competent.

You can see this in Key West on any sunny day.
Housecats performing quite happily.

Fondly, Dr. Von

From: TooCool (larrym...@hotmail.com)
The Puppy Wizard's Wits End Training Method

I have studied canine behavior and dog training for
years. I have a huge library that covers every system
of training.

The Puppy Wizard's (Jerry Howe's) Wits' End Training
Method is by far the most scientific, the most advanced,
the kindest, the quickest and the most effective training
method yet discovered.

It is not an assortment of training tips and tricks; it is
a logically consistent system. Every behavior problem
and every obedience skill is treated in the same logically
consistent manner.

Please study his manual carefully. Please endeavor to
understand the basis of his system and please follow
his directions exactly. His manual is a masterpiece.
It is dense with theory, with explanation, with detailed
descriptions about why behavior problems occur and
how their solution should be approached.

One should not pick and choose from among his methods
based upon what you personally like or dislike. His is
not a bag of tricks but a complete and integrated system
for not only training a dog but for raising a loving companion.

When I once said to Jerry that his system creates for
you the dog of your dreams, his response was that it
produces for your dog the owner of his dreams.

You see, Jerry has discovered that if you are gentle
with your dog then he will be gentle with you, if you
praise your dog every time he looks at you, then you
will become the center of your dogs world, if you use
Jerry's sound distraction with praise, then it takes
just minutes-sometimes merely seconds-to train your
dog to not misbehave (even in your absence) (Just 15
seconds this morning to train my 10 week old puppy to
lie quietly and let me clip his nails).

Using Jerry's scientific method (sound distraction /
praise / alteration / variation) it takes just minutes to
train you dog to respond to your commands.

What a pleasure it was for me to see my 6 week old
puppy running as fast has his wobbly little legs would
carry him in response to my recall command-and he
comes running every time I call no matter where we are
or what he is doing.

At ten weeks old now, my puppy never strains upon
his leash thanks to Jerry's hot & cold exercises and
his Family Pack Leadership exercises.

Jerry has discovered that if you scold your dog, if you
scream at him, if you intimidate him, if you hurt him,
if you force him then his natural response is to oppose
you.

Is Jerry a nut?

It doesn't make any difference to me whether he is or not.
It is a logical fallacy to judge a person's ideas based
upon their personality. As far as dogs are concerned, Jerry
wears his heart upon his sleeve. It touches him deeply when
he hears of trainers forcing, intimidating, scolding or
hurting dogs.

More than that, he knows that force is not effective
and that it will certainly lead to behavior problems;
sometime problems so severe that people put their
dogs down because of those problems.

I believe that it is natural for humans to want to control
their dog by force. Jerry knows this too. We have all been
at our wits' end, haven't we?

Dogs have a natural tendency to mimic. In scientific
literature it is referred to allelomimetic behavior. Dogs
respond in like kind to force; they respond in like kind
to praise.

Don't bribe your dog with treats; give him what he
wants most-your kind attention. Give him your praise.
You will be astonished at how your dog 's anxiety will
dissipate and how their behavior problems will dissipate
along with their anxiety.

Treat Jerry Howe's (The Puppy Wizard) Wits' End
Training Method as a scientific principle just as you
would the law of gravity and you will have astounding
success.

Dog behavior is just as scientific as is gravity.

If you follow Jerry's puppy rules you will get a sweet
little Magwai; if you don't you will surely get a little
gremlin (anyone see The Gremlins?). --Larry

From: Mike (m.bidd...@ns.sympatico.ca)
Subject: Re: Info. on the puppy wizard?
Date: 2004-07-18 14:27:02 PST

> > Oh, and did I mention his methods work, ya nuff said.
> > Mike
> Ok Mike which part worked for you?

It helped clear problems from my dogs in the
field using the can penny distraction technique.

Works like a charm.

My dogs get distracted easy from their jobs ie,
retrieving or training to find lost people, oh did
I mention that I am a Search and Rescue Team
Leader.

Sorry that slipped my mind.

I have read volumes of training books and don't
know where people get that Jerry copied others
work as I have NEVER come across his methods
before. I would like to see proof.

Just like Jerry outlined I eliminated problems one
at at time as they arose. I used to try and train to
the way I wanted them but this is backward, you
train out the problems leaving what you want left over.

Funny part is the second dog who had the same
problems as the other didn't need correcting for
some of his habits after I cleared it from the first
dog.

Seemed he learned through osmosis.

Nice side benefit there.

It nearly came to giving them up to a 3rd party
trainer as they were not performing well. The
VAST majority of working dog trainers are
agressive in their actions with the dogs.

I tried it and it didn't work and guess what I
was at my "Whits End" then someone I new
turned me onto Jerry and the rest is history.

I referred friends and families to Jerry's manual
and all have had great results. Starting puppies
out on the distraction technique is especially
good because they never develop the habit.

I had my sisters dog healing, sitting and down
stay reliably at 8-9 weeks. The first night home
following Jerrys advice we ditched the crate and
put the pup on the floor beside the bed and after
2 whimpers NOT A SOUND OUT OF THAT DOG
FOR 6 HRS! first night, that has never happened
in all my days.

Sorry, the man understands dogs its that simple.

Mike

"*.@DCFWatch.com" wrote:

No, the dog learned that I would hold still
the second she began to pull. She would pull
to go where *she* wanted.

Well if she wanted to stop and go in another
direction.. say to sniff my neighbors yard..

she learned if she wanted to do it I would stop
walking and she could go.. and if there wasn't
enough slack on her lead she would just pull me.

Then when she got done doing *her* thing, she woudl
heel.. smile at me and wait for me to say "let's go"
and finish *my* thing. I would refuse to move .. i
looked like an idiot.. freezing mid walk for minutes
waiting for *my* dog to heel and give *me* permission
to go again.

I did the treats and the let's go... she got to do her
stuff and get a cookie.. if she even wanted the cookie.

I wound up calling Jerry.. as I have a half red nose
pit and half amstaff.. who is incredibly protective..

we had a new pup on the way.. and i needed help.. i
followed petsmarts trainnign guides.. memorized them...
and they *did* work, don't get me wrong.. but only
when my pet wanted a cookie or felt the cookie was
better than what she wanted.. which was not often.

She quickly learned to ignore my commands if she
could see my hands were empty. So I called Jerry...
he chatted me for about an hour and a half.. gave me
his link... and even when i had probs intro'ing the
pup he called me withn i5 mins of my email for help
at 10pm on a sunday night.

One.. singular.. uno family pack exercise after
the hot and cold exercise and i could zig zag
down my street.. about face .. whatever.. and
never had tension.

two men were acrossed the street and she walked right
by them... ordinarily she'd snarl and protect us.

And in two days.. my dog.. who bit the puppy if he
even looked like he was going near my husband or kids..
is nursing him every hour.. cleaning him.. rough housing
gently.. and teaching him to go potty outside..

actually watches him to make sure he doesn't go in
the house... and has milk.. which is awesome since
she's 19 months old and has never had a litter.

She also has stopped barking non stop at our neighbor's
dogs and pig.. does not bark at eveyr car that drives by
and has stopped jumping on people. she's even starting
to ignore our cat who has lived on her dome litter box
and our window sill (literally) for over a year and a half.

She also does her commands on cue.. and doesn't look for a treat.

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
Subject: The Amazing Jerry's take on psychobabble
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:13:44 -0400

You might improve the learning of folk who actually
live with and train dogs to do useful things if you
excluded everyone who uses psychobabble from your lists.

I recommend to all of you who wish to taste the flavor
of sensible animal behaviorists to read THE MISBEHAVIOR
OF ORGANISMS, Breland and Breland.

This married pair of psychologists began the long trail
of highly trained animals who are symbolized by Shamu
eating a mackrel from a girl's hand instead of eating
the much more tasty pretty girl who is exactly the size
of the natural food of killer whales, seals. Yum!

The essay, by the way, is a chapter in B.F. Skinner's
summing up book, CUMULATIVE RECORD. They include a
sentence which more or less says, "unless you understand
the personal history of the particular animal, and the
history of this animal's species and group, the developmental
history of the animal, you cannot effectively train the animal.

Pigs root and hen's scratch, if you try to train hens without
scratching or pigs without scratching or pigeons without pecking,
you aren't going to have much success.

A conditional reflex is one which is learned, the original
primitive reflex occurs no matter what the history of the
animal, and is hard wired. If you train the animal to respond,
say by ringing a bell immediately before turning on a bright
light, then you've taught the animal and made his native reflex
of pupil constriction conditional upon the ringing of a bell.

Thorndyke added some terminology to this kind of training
and insisted that when you train the animal to make gross
motor responses that this learning is "instrumental", the
animal takes action and uses an instrument.

The Russian word translated as "conditional" in all other
contexts was mistranslated by Pavlov's American translator,
Horsley Gannt, as "conditioned" and so American psychology
went haring after phantasmagora.

The major theorists for the development of the language of
operant conditioning are Edward Thorndike, John Watson, and
B. F. Skinner. Their approach to behaviorism played a major
role in the development of American psychology.

They proposed that learning is the result of the application
of consequences; that is, learners begin to connect certain
responses with certain stimuli. This connection causes the
probability of the response to change (i.e., learning occurs.)

Thorndike labeled this type of learning instrumental. Using
consequences, he taught kittens to manipulate a latch (e.g.,
an instrument). Skinner renamed instrumental as "operant"
because in this learning, one is "operating" on, and is
influenced by, the environment. Where classical conditioning
illustrates S-->R learning, operant conditioning is often
viewed as R-->S learning since it is the consequence that
follows the response that influences whether the response
is likely or unlikely to occur again.

It is through operant conditioning that
voluntary responses are learned.

One should note that Russian Psychology did very well
without the operant language, and only pettifogging
university professors ought to worry about what kind
of label we attach to the learning. Pfui!

Even Skinner understood this!

And please note if you saw the original movie, THE
MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE, you saw a Chinese psychologist
who was based on Andrew Salter, CONDITIONED REFLEX
THERAPY.

Alas, Salter didn't have a Ph.D., but he basically rescued
us from the long Freudian nightmare and returned psychotherapy
to a scientific basis. Alas, the 2nd movie didn't even cite
Salter as a source. "...all the highest nervous activity, as
it manifests itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a
continual change of these three fundamental processes --
excitation, inhibition and disinhibition." Ivan P. Pavlov

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

What's important is, "does Shamu reliably eat
the fish and not the pretty girl?"

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com
To: <d...@arcane-computing.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:38 PM
Subject: Doggy advice

Scott, Jerry Howe forwarded me the letter below.
I'm glad that you referred negatively to Jerry's
habit of CAPITALIZING and HOWEING everything.

I personally hate this habit of his. I think it is his
way of diluting his authority - IME he is a very modest
fellow. However, contrary to your sneer, he is very
competent at living with dogs.

I thought I'd list a series of actions which I found
on the list, folk asking advice on what to do about
dogs doing this and that, for example:

whining,
humping, hunching,
pacing,
self mutilation - paw licking, side sucking,
spinning,
prolonged barking, barking at shadows,
overstimulated barking,
fighting, bullying other dogs,
compulsive digging,
compulsive scratching,
compulsive chewing,
frantic behavior,
chasing light, chasing shadow,
stealing food,
digging in garbage can,
loosing house (toilet) training.
inappropriate fearfulness
aggression.

The thing that is fascinating to me, as an ethologist who
graduated from college 50 years ago and has spent all of
the intervening time working with animals (including the
human animal), is that you never see any of these behaviors
in wild dingoes, jackals, coyotes or wolves, you don't even
see these behaviors in hyenas (who aren't dog related).

You see these behaviors in human managed animals, especially
animals who live with neurotic hysterical humans.

As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving
care.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine

"Linda" <llindaleedan...@msn.com wrote in message
news:

I have been trying for the last 18 months to help my
dog who became fear aggressive at 18 month of age.
I do not know what started the problem but he came
aggressive first with dogs and then began lunging and
snapping at people. Until this time he loved everyone
and could play with any dog. He was well socialized
ad I took him with me everywhere.

At 13 months he passed the Canine Good Citizens
Test except he could let me leave him. I had used
clicker training to teach him manners and tricks but
it was not working on his aggression problem.

I took him to vets who suggested a low protein diet,
trainers who charged $800 to only make him worse.
They tried to use a prong collar and he froze, urinated
and tried to climb on my head to help him. they then
suggested a shock collar I knew this approach was not
working as he was becoming more aggressive.

I took him to an animal behaviorist with Ph. D. 400 miles
away who told me to "KEEP HIM SAFE" and read a book
on the fearful canine. I tried another trainer who tried to
use a nylon chock collar but it only made him worse.

I read hundreds of books,"CULTURE CLASH", "DOG
ARE FROM NEPTUNE", "THE OTHER END OF THE
LEASH", ETC looking for help. We finally went to Purdue
University Small Animal Behavior Clinic and they said he
had fear aggression, punishment would not work, use the
gentle leader and when out walking and he got stressed
have the people stop until he could get in control using
treats, and work on clicker training.

At that point I knew more about clicker training and using
the gentle leader than they did! Nothing was working--he
would not come when I called him and would run away when
I tried to catch him. I was afraid to walk him even in the
neighborhood as we had become that "mean dog and women who
hasn't trained her dog"

I went to four trainers in both Michigan and Florida who
were trainer/specialists in aggression and the last two
were so afraid of him they could not approach him. No one
said I should give up on him and kill him but they would
say "You have to realize he is dangerous and you are
responsible for him."

*(You got LUCKY, Linda... They coulda got Sunshine
DEAD on us. Damned near did... too.)

As last resort I tried the internet again--I had had on
going discussions with trainers from Triple Crown and Dr
Meister with out any help-and I found the ad to Doggy Do
Right and messaged Jerry to ask if this might help my dog.
He said solving the aggression problem was EZ but I could
not believe him even when I downloaded the manual.

The name of the method was right I was at my Wits End.
I had been working for 18 months!

Using the can sound three time he came, and still comes
from anywhere with the command-"comegoodboy" Next
I tried the can when walking him--when he saw a dog three
blocks away he went off-lunging and snapping-I used the
can sound and he looked at me like uhn?

I used it three more times and we got to the other dog-
-the looked at me wagging his tail--the other person
looked at me like why are shaking that can but just walked
on by.

When ever I try to explain about the sound people look at
me like "you must be out of your mind"

The results can make a believer!!!

Three weeks since beginning the Wits End Training
Manual program I walked him without the gentle leader
in a busy shopping area with many dogs.

He just seemed to not notice any one.

When people talked to him or ask his name he would
look at then and wag his tail and let then pet him.

I still can not believe the change in him--we can now
enjoy life out in public.

If I had not found the Wits End method I know there
was no hope for him and he would have hurt someone
Through all this he never growled at me, guarded his
toys or food or showed any sign of aggression with me.

My goal is to get the message out to all dog lovers that
dogs can be trained fast, easily and problems solved with
out force, pain, food or anything but sound and praise!!!!

I know most people would have given up on him a long time
ago but he was and is my life. Solving the problem was EZ
but only with the right approach-sound and praise.

I know because I tried everything else and nothing worked!!!

================================

From: Linda Daniel
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:06 AM
Subject: Re: - Re: dog aggression

Thanks for writing--I would be happy to do almost anything
to get your approach out to dog owners as I know it would
save so many lives. I know at times I was so frustrated I
thought of giving up on Sunshine but of course I never would
have but many people would have. The world just does not
know you can train a dog in just a few sessions and actually
solve problems.

We will be here until late April and we really have no plans-
-just to enjoy the warmth and sun of Florida, so any time
you could meet us would be great. I drive so I would be
happy to come to you anytime anywhere!

We went to Celebration today and two little poodles got
right into his face and he just sat there--I GOT a little
scared but he handled it just fine.--a couple of times people
would ask his name and want to pet him and he just went
to them tail wagging and rolled over for them rub his tummy.

He really just is not concerned about people passing, even
those on rollerblades! I have always used a gentle leader
in public but he spent most of time rubbing his face on the
grass--today I used his collar and he was so much happier!!

Only problem is he will stop to smell and I can not get
stopped soon enough to keep the leash loose. He never
pulled ahead of me but when he gets into smelling I have
a hard time getting him going--at times I think he could
smell a blade of grass for 10 minutes.

I can never thank you enough for giving Sunshine back!!!!!

I wrote to Purdue and told them about him being able to
walk in a crowd with out the /gentle leader and not having
a problem with other people and dogs.

I told them their advice did not work. Their advice was
to use the gentle leader at all times and when he was
around people or dogs to have him sit and reward with
treats--one really good suggestions was to have people
coming toward us stop when he got stressed or aroused
and not move until we backed away-

- can you just see me yelling at people to stop on the street
until I get his attention with treats.

They also suggested the possibility of using drugs-prozac-
but thought he was too dangerous as the drug would make
him less fearful and then he might attack or become more
sure of himself and become dominate aggressive. Just had
to share their great advice with you but I am sure you have
heard it all--even I am becoming an expert on bad advice.

----------------------------------

("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
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(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
(((' (((-((('' ((((

|\ _.-'~~""'~`'~)
/, ~-,__,,,.'~ ,-;;--''
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(,_..----''' (,..--''

Meow

/),,/)
( ' ; ')
(,,)-(,,)

/),,/)
(' ; ') kiss me
(,,)-(,,)

/),,/)
( ; ' ) kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)

/),,/)
( ; ) kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)

/)
( * ) and KISS ME HERE!
(,,)-(,,)
The Amazing Pussy Wizard <{@); ~ } >

<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>

Please DON'T BE The Amazing Pussy Wizard's PREY.

IT AIN'T PRETTY.

<{@); ~ } >
> Watch this space folks.... you are about to see Jerry dodge and weave
> and make all the excuses he can think of to avoid showing himself up
> for what he truly is.

> Regards,
> Grant 'The Paw Man' Teeboon
> Police Dog Handler - RAAF
> 26 yrs service
> ICQ# 12854070

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