Dog Discussion: Neighbours Dog Constantly Whimpering, What Should I Do

Neighbours Dog Constantly Whimpering, What Should I Do
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Dave Turner
2005-07-15 10:35:59 EST
ive just moved in to a new house and ive been here for a week. Every night
and every morning i hear my next door neighbours dog whimpering, and i find
it very difficult listening to an animal in distress (and its not much fun
being woken up at 7am by such sounds either). I havent met the neighbours
yet, and i feel like i'll get on their wrong side if i introduce myself and
straight away ask about their dog, because afterall i have to live next to
them, but i am concerned about the welfare of their dog - why would it be
whimpering so often? i had a look over the fence tonight and i could see
that the dog was free to roam around, so maybe it's just cold? (it has
dropped down to ~5 degrees celcius each night recently)



Y*@HushMail.Com
2005-07-15 15:12:39 EST
HOWEDY Dave,

Dave Turner wrote:
> ive just moved in to a new house and ive
> been here for a week.

Congrats.

> Every night and every morning i hear my
> next door neighbours dog whimpering,

Dogs cry on accHOWENT of they're afraid
hungry thirsty hot cold or neglected.

> and i find it very difficult listening
> to an animal in distress

LikeWIZE. HOWEver, it doesn't seem to bother
HOWER EXXXPERTS who can't train their dogs
not to bark, even despite their shock collars
as YOU'LL SEE in the current threads on barkin
and dominance urination.

> (and its not much fun being woken up at
> 7am by such sounds either).

Well, the DOG'S COMFORT is the important issue, ain't it.

> I havent met the neighbours yet,

Good. This'll give you an EXXXCELLENT opportunity.

> and i feel like i'll get on their wrong side if
> i introduce myself and straight away ask about
> their dog,

HOWE COME? Folks LOVE talkin abHOWET their dogs.

IN FACT, in a couple minutes you'll be gettin
posts from DOG LOVERS talkin abHOWET HOWE to
jerk choke shock and spray aversives in dog's
faces and surgically mutilate them to break
their anXXXIHOWESNESS barkin and others will
tell you HOWE to COMPLAIN to the authorities
so their dog may be taken away from them and
murdered <{); ~ ) >

Your neighbor AIN'T gonna be HAPPY abHOWET
you COMPLAININ abHOWET a problem that PROBABLY
BOTHERS THEM as much as it does you, UNLESS
you got SOME ADVICE as to HOWE to CURE it.

> because afterall i have to live next to them,

Well, you'll enjoy makin new friends when you
visit to bring them their own FREE COPY of The
Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual <{); ~ ) >

> but i am concerned about the welfare of their dog -

Good. LikeWIZE <{); ~ ) >

> why would it be whimpering so often?

The A.M. crying is PROBABLY on accHOWENT of
he's waitin on his breakfast or he's heard
his family wakin up.

> i had a look over the fence tonight and i could
> see that the dog was free to roam around, so maybe
> it's just cold? (it has dropped down to ~5 degrees
> celcius each night recently)

Could be. HOWEver, if dogs are left HOWET they
become CONDITIONED to temperature changes and
should be O.K. with it.

Here's your FREE copy of The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?G 34D2527A

Just ASK The Amazing Puppy Wizard if you
need any additional FREE heelp. There's NO
arbritrary INFORMATION in your FREE copy
of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual so
study it well and do and follow ALL the
EXXXERCISES AS INSTRUCTED... it's a
PRECISE SCIENCE or it COULDN'T GET 100%
CONSISTENT NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS for
all handlers and all dogs in all fields
or utilities and behaviors all over the
Whole Wild World <{) ; ~ ) >

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:41:01 -0500
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D."
<*.@mindspring.com>
Subject: "time-out"

Dan, my own firm hatred of punishment has
recently been intensified by meeting The
Puppy Wizard, Jerry Howe, whose work with
dogs is marvelous.

There is a literature on harms caused by time
out, and perhaps you'd like to look at
http://www.dogydoright.com
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

"As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving
care."

George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com
To: <d...@arcane-computing.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:38 PM
Subject: Doggy advice

Scott, Jerry Howe forwarded me the letter below.
I'm glad that you referred negatively to Jerry's
habit of CAPITALIZING and HOWEING everything.

I personally hate this habit of his. I think it is his
way of diluting his authority - IME he is a very modest
fellow. However, contrary to your sneer, he is very
competent at living with dogs.

I thought I'd list a series of actions which I found
on the list, folk asking advice on what to do about
dogs doing this and that, for example:

whining,
humping, hunching,
pacing,
self mutilation - paw licking, side sucking,
spinning,
prolonged barking, barking at shadows,
overstimulated barking,
fighting, bullying other dogs,
compulsive digging,
compulsive scratching,
compulsive chewing,
frantic behavior,
chasing light, chasing shadow,
stealing food,
digging in garbage can,
loosing house (toilet) training.
inappropriate fearfulness
aggression.

The thing that is fascinating to me, as an ethologist who
graduated from college 50 years ago and has spent all of
the intervening time working with animals (including the
human animal), is that you never see any of these behaviors
in wild dingoes, jackals, coyotes or wolves, you don't even
see these behaviors in hyenas (who aren't dog related).

You see these behaviors in human managed animals,
especially animals who live with neurotic hysterical humans.

As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there is
no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving care.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine


~shady Angel~
2005-07-15 21:31:48 EST
Dave Turner wrote:
> ive just moved in to a new house and ive been here for a week. Every
> night and every morning i hear my next door neighbours dog
> whimpering, and i find it very difficult listening to an animal in
> distress (and its not much fun being woken up at 7am by such sounds
> either). I havent met the neighbours yet, and i feel like i'll get on
> their wrong side if i introduce myself and straight away ask about
> their dog, because afterall i have to live next to them, but i am
> concerned about the welfare of their dog - why would it be whimpering
> so often? i had a look over the fence tonight and i could see that
> the dog was free to roam around, so maybe it's just cold? (it has
> dropped down to ~5 degrees celcius each night recently)

I feel for you as my dog has statred moaning when I go to work and have to
chain him up he is a pit bull so when he moans he soundz like somebody is
murdering him, so there may not be anything wrong with the dog apart from
suffereing lonelyness.
--
~shady angel~
Heya guys I'm back



Lil' Dave
2005-07-16 07:32:02 EST
"Dave Turner" <nobody@nowhere.nohow> wrote in message
news:42d7ca5d@quokka.wn.com.au...
> ive just moved in to a new house and ive been here for a week. Every night
> and every morning i hear my next door neighbours dog whimpering, and i
find
> it very difficult listening to an animal in distress (and its not much fun
> being woken up at 7am by such sounds either). I havent met the neighbours
> yet, and i feel like i'll get on their wrong side if i introduce myself
and
> straight away ask about their dog, because afterall i have to live next to
> them, but i am concerned about the welfare of their dog - why would it be
> whimpering so often? i had a look over the fence tonight and i could see
> that the dog was free to roam around, so maybe it's just cold? (it has
> dropped down to ~5 degrees celcius each night recently)
>
>

Greettings to the down-under OP.

Except for small, hairless varieties, most dogs have no problem with such
external temperatures if overhead shelter and a a windbreak is provided.
Food is important, that's their heat source. All animals need water,
preferrably in liquid form. Bedding is important to be clean and dry.

There are a variety of reasons for a dog to issue a oral sound indicating
physical pain or emmotional distress. Not unusual for a relatively new dog,
not used to the external night-time environment. Dog could also be sensing
a hunting animal, or similar nocturnal creature. This includes a variety of
insects as well but unlikely due to the temperature.

A few visits with the neighbors should put your relationship in stable
enough condition to allow such a question if you register with them what
you're telling this newsgroup.



W*@Animail.Net
2005-07-16 19:29:34 EST
HOWEDY Lil' Dave,

Lil' Dave wrote:
> "Dave Turner" <nobody@nowhere.nohow> wrote in message
> news:42d7ca5d@quokka.wn.com.au...
>
> > ive just moved in to a new house and ive been here for a week.
> > Every night and every morning i hear my next door neighbours
> > dog whimpering, and i find it very difficult listening to an
> > animal in distress (and its not much fun being woken up at
> > 7am by such sounds either).

So long as he's UP he can stick his head HOWET the
window and say "HOWEDY!" to his neighbor's dog an
TELL HIM HE'S A GOOD BOY and he MIGHT JUST RELAXXX
and GO BACK TO SLEEP JUST LIKE HOWE The Amazing Puppy
Wizard trains HIS neighbor's dogs not to EVER bark or
whine unnecessarily <{); ~ ) >

> > I havent met the neighbours yet, and i feel like
> > i'll get on their wrong side if i introduce myself
> > and straight away ask about their dog,

Dog lovers LOVE talkin abHOWET their dogs.

> > because afterall i have to live next to them,
> > but i am concerned about the welfare of their
> > dog -

Well then, if he's CON-CERNED he should make it
over there at his earliest opportunity and tell
his neighbor that their dog is UNHAPPY and he
can offer them his own FREE COPY of The Amazing
Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual and they'll TRAIN their dog NEARLY
INSTANTLY withHOWET HURTIN IT and FOR FREE, to
boot <{); ~ ) >

> > why would it be whimpering so often?

Usually they WHIMPER on accHOWENT of they're AFRAID.

> > i had a look over the fence tonight and i could see
> > that the dog was free to roam around, so maybe it's
> > just cold?

Could be THAT, too <{); ~ ) >

> > (it has dropped down to ~5 degrees celcius each night recently)

AbHOWET 25F? That's chilly enough to make him
cry if he's not pupperly HOWESED <{); ~ ) >

> Greettings to the down-under OP.

LikeWIZE <{); ~ ) >

Seems you're abHOWET the only NON Student of The
Amazing Puppy Wizard who SEEMS to UNDERSTAND dogs
a little <{); ~ ) >

> Except for small, hairless varieties, most dogs have
> no problem with such external temperatures if overhead
> shelter and a a windbreak is provided. Food is important,
> that's their heat source. All animals need water, preferrably
> in liquid form. Bedding is important to be clean and dry.
>
> There are a variety of reasons for a dog to issue a oral
> sound indicating physical pain or emmotional distress.
> Not unusual for a relatively new dog, not used to the external
> night-time environment. Dog could also be sensing a hunting
> animal, or similar nocturnal creature. This includes a variety
> of insects as well but unlikely due to the temperature.

Pretty good logic, DHOWEN Under <{); ~ ) >

> A few visits with the neighbors should put your
> relationship in stable enough condition to allow
> such a question

You mean, INSTEAD of JUST BEIN HONEST and OFFERING
A FREE GENTLE FAST EZ SAFE SOLUTION i.e. PRAISE THE
DOG when IT becomes AFRAID and EXXXTINGUISHING the
behavior problem NEARLY INSTANTLY?

Here's your FREE copy of The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?G 34D2527A

Just ASK The Amazing Puppy Wizard if you
need any additional FREE heelp. There's NO
arbritrary INFORMATION in your FREE copy
of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual so
study it well and do and follow ALL the
EXXXERCISES AS INSTRUCTED... it's a
PRECISE SCIENCE or it COULDN'T GET 100%
CONSISTENT NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS for
all handlers and all dogs in all fields
or utilities and behaviors all over the
Whole Wild World <{) ; ~ ) >

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:41:01 -0500
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D."
<*.@mindspring.com>
Subject: "time-out"

Dan, my own firm hatred of punishment has
recently been intensified by meeting The
Puppy Wizard, Jerry Howe, whose work with
dogs is marvelous.

There is a literature on harms caused by time
out, and perhaps you'd like to look at
http://www.dogydoright.com
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

"As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving
care."

George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com
To: <d...@arcane-computing.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:38 PM
Subject: Doggy advice

Scott, Jerry Howe forwarded me the letter below.
I'm glad that you referred negatively to Jerry's
habit of CAPITALIZING and HOWEING everything.

I personally hate this habit of his. I think it is his
way of diluting his authority - IME he is a very modest
fellow. However, contrary to your sneer, he is very
competent at living with dogs.

I thought I'd list a series of actions which I found
on the list, folk asking advice on what to do about
dogs doing this and that, for example:

whining,
humping, hunching,
pacing,
self mutilation - paw licking, side sucking,
spinning,
prolonged barking, barking at shadows,
overstimulated barking,
fighting, bullying other dogs,
compulsive digging,
compulsive scratching,
compulsive chewing,
frantic behavior,
chasing light, chasing shadow,
stealing food,
digging in garbage can,
loosing house (toilet) training.
inappropriate fearfulness
aggression.

The thing that is fascinating to me, as an ethologist who
graduated from college 50 years ago and has spent all of
the intervening time working with animals (including the
human animal), is that you never see any of these behaviors in wild
dingoes, jackals, coyotes or wolves, you don't even see these behaviors

in hyenas (who aren't dog related).

You see these behaviors in human managed animals,
especially animals who live with neurotic hysterical humans.

As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there is no treatment
more useful for dogs than tender loving care.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine

> if you register with them what you're telling this newsgroup.

You mean THIS newsgroup?:

SATAN'S DOG
A "Symbolic" Tap Under The Chin To Communicate
From lying frosty amy dahl
And A Bitch Slap From The Left Hand Of G-D

HOWEDY dog lovers,

If Satan had a dog, what breed would it be?

The AMAZING Puppy Wizard thinks it would be
a Maltese or Bichon or maybe a nice little
Peekapoo or Chihuaha<{); ~ ) >

What kinda dog do you got?

If it's good enough for you, would it likeWIZE
be suitable for Satan, bein cut off the same
cloth an all?

HOWE COME it would / would not?

The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <} ; ~ ) >

Satan, the Great Deceiver would NEVER ask:

Can you tell a truth from a lie?

Take off your shoes and socks and see if
you can cHOWENT HOWE many LIES
are in the following QUOTES:

= = = Jerome Bigge writes:
= = = I do know that hitting, hurting
= = = your dog will often make the
= = = dog either aggressive or a fear
= = = biter, neither of which we want to do.

And then we got, matty! Follow his discussion!
This is what's called, a liar and dog abuser:

= = And neither does anyone else,
= = Jerome. No matter
= = what Jerry Howe states.

"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This (Destructive Separation
Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite A Few
Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME
The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer, 33
Years Experience.

You DO remember KILLFILING MARILYN for her coment above
regarding her success with The Puppy Wizard's Surrogate Toy
Separation Anxiety / Bed Time Calming Technique (STSA/BTCT)?

Perhaps you likeWIZE recall a pediatrician, Dr. Z, who commented
that his bed time calming technique was quite similar?

= = You're scary Marilyn.

= = Marilyn must be quite a disturbed
= = individual. I feel very sorry for her
= = and her family.

"His Amazing Progress Almost Makes Me Cry.
Your Method Takes Positive Training To The
Next Level And Should Really Be Used By All
Trainers Who Call Themselves Trainers. Thank
You For Helping Me Save His Life," Kay Pierce,
Professional Trainer, 30 Years Experience.

= = BUT, giving you the benefit of the
= = doubt, please provide a quote (an
= = original quote, not from one of Jerry
= = Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
= = shows a regular poster promoting or
= = using an abusive form of training.

= = --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

> > The actual quote is misleading when taken
> > out of context, and Jerry's faked "quote"
> > is downright meaningless.

> Here's Jerry's version

> "I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
> Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
> Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
> Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
> Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
> Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
> Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.

> Here's yours;

> "I dropped the leash, threw my
> right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
> grabbed her opposite foot with my
> left hand, rolled her on her side,
> leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
> nipped her ear.
> --Sara Sionnach

BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!

That's INSANE. Ain't it.

"When you get bagged for lying you're MARKED
FOR LIFE," The Puppy Wizard's DADDY.

LIKE THIS:

From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
Subject: Re: Leg Humper
Date: 1999/09/14

B*.@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
<*.@bellsouth.n­­et>:

>By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
>suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
>that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
>the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
>crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
>you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
>dealing with behavior problems.

Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
up until this last paragraph.

Why did you blow it?

--Matt

"Rocky" <> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?

> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.

> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?
> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

BWWWAWHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

"Tricia9999" <tricia9...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021117101433.10365.00000067@mb-cg.aol.com...

> how effective are these electronic fences in
> keeping a dog on a property????

Some run through it. Others get shocked and become
too scared to go out in the yard anymore.

Just heard of a guy that has to rehome his dog,
because the dog got caught right in the path of
the shock and will now not go near his person,
won't go outside.

Just hides under a desk in the house.

BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHHAAAA!!!

"I'd call the SHOCK fence effective and safe.
Humane is one of those hot words that people
can debate all day so I won't touch that one.
There are people who would call a regular chain
link fence inhumane," liea altshuller.

"I know this is a hard subject to bring up without
starting the whole cruelty thread again so I'll
state my opinion once and won't defend it further:
any method can be cruel for some dogs.

Even the slightest punishment was wrong for Cubbe at the
beginning, but we've come a long way since then.

She t­rusts us now as I mentioned in a recent post.

Point is, she's been rewarded for coming, but she's
never been punished, even in the mildest way, for
not coming.

Is it time for that?

What might I look for to tell?"

"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshu...@comcast.net>
wrote in message news:McYnb.45145$ao4.106231@attbi_s51...
> After talking with the vet yesterday and watching
> Cubbe all day today, I'm convinced that the shaking
> is behavioral, not physical. Naturally I'll continue
> keeping an eye on her, but when I add everything
> up, I don't see symptoms of anything neurological--
> and the vet agrees.
> --Lia

From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST

Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

>> I try really hard not to yell. The times that I
>> have, Solo joined in and then lunged to the end of
>> the leash.

"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know
Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If He Thought Solo
Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.

You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN
SHY" dog to be BEATEN by a strange male trainer
is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR for a DOG LOVER?

> Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
> thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
> others' dogs at agility trials or training.
--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828.07753.00000001@mb-m18.aol.com...

> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.

> Janet Boss

"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...

> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916.10096.00001938@mb-m17.aol.com...

> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.

An INSENSITIVE DOG???

> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had apointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.


"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to
MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???

"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know
Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If He Thought Solo
Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.

You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN
SHY" dog to be BEATEN by a strange male trainer
is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR for a DOG LOVER?

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."

You think HURTIN dogs and CRINGING
is courteHOWES?

"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?"

Means the author is a dog abuser of the worst magnitude.

"When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first time,
spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth and walk
away.

The dog won't be too thrilled with this but just
ignore him and continue your normal behavior."

You think HURTING your dog is NORMAL BEHAVIOR?

--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"Courteous Canines"

You think HOWER pals are playin with a full deck?

Yeah. When I preload my dog's mouth with bitter apple,
suppose I don't get used to being stupid and cruel, mikey?

Then HOWE do I train my dog if I can't HURT it?

A "Symbolic" Tap Under The Chin To Communicate
From amy dahl
And A Bitch Slap From The Left Hand Of G-D

HOWEDY People,

=From: Amy Dahl (amy(at)oakhillkennel.com)
=.
= Subject: Re: Jerry - I need an answer,
= don't mean to start a war
= Date: 2000-10-11 06:06:36 PST
=
=David Johnston wrote:
=
== Like a lot of people, I came here to learn. I'm not
== a trainer but I have had to take responsibility in
== training my pekes because they don't seem to fit
== the mold of most of the training classes I've tried
== out.
=
== Anyone who's read "The Intelligence of Dogs" will
== figure their brain power sits somewhere
== between a hitching post and a turnip.
=
= Nice to see I'm not the only person who thought that
= book was somewhere beyond left field.

Ooops!

== This list has given me a lot of food for thought and
== a lot of good advice.

BWWEEEEEEJAJAJAJAJAJAAA!!!

== But when I start reading about things like hanging
== and and the like in posts related to the training of
== a dog who sounds pretty much normal, it makes
== me start to wonder what the heck people are doing.

Perhaps you should reconsider every thing you thought
you knew abHOWET behavior.

= I think it is important to sort out who is saying what,

Yeah... and denyin their own words.

= and where.

Don't matter where. When you get bagged
for lying you're marked for life, lying frosty dahl.

= Consider the issue of "hanging."

No. Not till we consider HOWE COME you
gotta hang dogs in the first place.

"Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap,"
professora gingold.

captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A
ResoundingSound Distraction: "When You Chuck The Dog
The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To The Ears And
Give A Popping Sound To The Dog."

= I have never seen anyone on this newsgroup
= recommend hanging during the training of a
= dog which seems "pretty much normal."

IMAGINE?

lying frosty dahl sez she doesn't twist:

"None of my posts, prior to or subsequent to
Jerry Howe's attacks, encourage anyone to
twist ears, beat dogs, confront, intimidate,
frighten, or any of the crap he constantly
attributes to me."

BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!

"On the other extreme, the really hard dogs
we have trained require much more frequent
and heavy application of pressure (PAIN j.h.)
to get the job done.

I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A
Dog I Do Not Believe There Is A Single
Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A
Dog Is Anything But Destructive,"

LUCKY thing CHIN CHUCK absolutely don't
mean slap the goddamned dog, we'd look like
a conspiracy of LIARS and DOG abusers if
CHIN CHUCK DID mean SLAP the dog.

captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK" Makes
A ResoundingSound Distraction: "When You Chuck The
Dog The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To The
Ears And Give A Popping Sound To The Dog."

"I don't see why anyone would want to choke or
beat a dog, or how any trainer could possibly get
a good working dog by making them unhapper,
fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying frosty dahl.

= A few posters who work with rescue

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

= or shelter dogs _

"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me. I volunteered
as assistant to the euthanasia tech at our local shelter
for a while, and I know a bit about overpopulation and
unwanted animals.

This however has nothing at all to do with responsible
breeders, because responsible breeders don't contribute
to that problem," Mustang Sally.

I'll be you've never had to put down litters of
beautiful labrador puppies? If you had did, maybe
you'd be singing a different tune?

"Actually, have held them for the tech to euth, and
put their bodies in the trash bag and in the freezer
for the trash company to come and dispose of.

No different tune," ~Emily

Lynn K. wrote:

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.
---------------------------------

"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.

Should I have refused to groom them?

Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."

Lynn K.

= defend_their_use_of_the_procedure_

Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob=
<04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7(at)TeraNews=...


= ==Lynn, looks like he got you there if these quotes are true.
= ==In the posts below you take responsibility for making those
= == calls.
= ==In your post above, you state you do not make those calls.
= ==Which one is it?
= :
= = Nope, Bob. Mikey isn't a stupid man and he
= = knows well the difference between:
= =
= = 1. A non-shelter rescue group that occasionally
= = has to put a dog down for health or temperament
= = reasons. (Yep, I'm involved with that.)
= :
= = 2. A trainer hired to evaluate a dog who might
= = determine the dog is potentially dangerous.
= = (Yes, again, I've been in that position.)
= :
= = 3. Public pounds that routinely kill stray and
= = abandoned animals. (Nope, I only pull animals
= = from those pounds into the private rescue programs.)
=
= -----------------------------------


amy lying frosty dahl continues:

"On the other extreme, the really hard dogs
we have trained require much more
frequent and heavy application of pressure
(PAIN j.h.) to get the job done,

This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome

Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher,
less tractable dogs may require you to
progress to striking them more sharply"

BUT NOBODY DOES THAT HERE...

"Try pinching the ear between the metal
casing and the collar, even the buckle on
the collar. Persist! Eventually, the dog will
give in but will squeal, thrash around, and
direct their efforts to escaping the ear pinch"

OR ATTACKING HIS ABUSER.

"You can press the dog's ear with a
shotshell instead of your thumb even
get a studded collar and pinch the ear
against that Make the dog's need to stop
the pinching so urgent that resisting your
will fades in importance.

CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever
Ready Right Hand, As it catches on, try
using the stick and no ear pinch.

When the dog is digging out to beat the
stick and seems totally reliable without
any ear pinch, you are finished

This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome"

If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly
under the chin, say "No! Hold!"

(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps
because the ear is getting tender, or the
dog has decided it isn't worth it)" lying
frosty dahl.

= to avoid (or minimize) harm from a (potentially redeemable)
= dog who attacks them. *Not* routine training.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

= Apparently, however, some newcomers to this group
= have got the impression, from reading Jerry's rantings
= and misquotations, that it is something that many of us
= do every day, for the fun of it.

"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know
Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If He Thought Solo
Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.

captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK" Makes
A ResoundingSound Distraction: "When You Chuck The
Dog The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To The
Ears And Give A Popping Sound To The Dog."

And from terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
things is something you twisted out of
context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."

"Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a
helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.
Tougher, less tractable dogs may require
you to progress to striking them more
sharply," lying frosty dahl, ethical breeder,
expert trainer, discoverer of cannibalism
in Labradors.

You think a EXXXPERT trainer got to BEAT
a HUNTIN dog to MAKE IT HUNT?

"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.

Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies
HURT all their lives like HOWE HOWER dog
lovers PREFER to HURT THEIR DOGS?

"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."

The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.

We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...

= Another instance. I once published an article containing
= the phrase, "tougher, less tractable dogs may require you
= to progress to striking them more sharply." This followed
= a description of a "symbolic" tap under the chin to ommunicate,

Cites please? You tend to CONfHOWEND your
methods and motives for HURTIN dogs when you're
not REALLY HURTIN them. You was talkin abHOWET
beatin the dog with a stick for your stick fetch, not
smackin IT under his chin so he can get a sHOWEND
distraction.

= without hurting the dog,

Don't MATTER if you HURT the dog or NOT.

The dog ain't gonna APPRECIATE you for it.

= that the trainer disapproves

Seems the trainer is blamin the dog cause he
couldn't TRAIN the dog to DO what he wants.

= of the dog's spitting out a dummy which the
= dog has already been trained to accept.

You mean when you're choking and pinchin his ear.

captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A
ResoundingSound Distraction: "When You Chuck The Dog
The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To The Ears And
Give A Popping Sound To The Dog."

= The context is that if the dog is among the huge majority
= who try to cooperate, the correction is unnecessary.

That so? The Puppy Wizard sez you're a liar.

= Jerry Howe has posted that sentence myriad times
= on this newsgroup, not in the context in which I wrote it,

Don't matter WHAT the CON-TEXT is when you're
beatin and shockin a dog and denyin you're HURTIN
IT or you wouldn't be jerk and chokin and shockin an
beatin IT in the first place if you didn't INTEND TO HURT..

= but attached to another statement so that it sounds
= as though I am advocating beating a dog with a stick.

IMAGINE?

=There is a lot more that could be said about the
= context of my article,

Yeah. That's HOWE COME your pal sindy sadist
mooreon doesn't post here noMOORE. She didn't
wanna get bagged for lyin like you do.

Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher,
less tractable dogs may require you to
progress to striking them more sharply"

= but I'll only mention a couple of points.

Let's discuss every thing. Your STICK FETCH.
You know, the WON you changed three times
to suite your false defenses and CONfHOWEND
it with chin chuckin to make it SHOWEND like
you're just beatin the dog with your hand.

= That article has been published in The Retriever
= Journal and on my website, *never* (by me or with
= my permission) on this newsgroup.

SHAAAZZZAAAMMM!!!

=In the context of common practices of retriever
=training, which operate on a paradigm of "teaching"
=mainly through force,

You mean HURT the dog to make IT hunt.

= the procedure is considerably more humane

You mean beatin the dog with a stick and pinchin
and twistin his ears and toes and shocking and
jerking and choking IT.

= than any alternative

You mean, like TRAININ IT?

= I have read (that actually gets the job done).

You mean a method of trainin that WORKS?
Well, you COULD learn HOWE to train a dog
then you wouldn't NEED to HURT IT.

=No, it is not perfect, and John (husband) and
=I are constantly working to find ways to improve it by
=making it less stressful to the dogs.

Yeah. You even tried and miserably failed
clicker trainin. See "clicker project fizzles."

= But it is offered as an improvement

You mean beatin an shockin a dog is a IMPROVEMENT.

= to what else is available to the novice attempting
= to train a retriever.

You think novice trainers should be HURTIN
their dogs on the advice of a trainer who sez
hurtin the dog to train IT is an IMPROVEMENT?

=More context, in case you are still reading.

You make a good point. AnyWON readin your
pathos is either as NUTS as The Puppy Wizard
or is workin on a master's degree in criminal
insanity.

= The procedure described in the article takes up
= a very short time, a small proportion of a retriever's
= training,

Compared to the amHOWENT of jerkin and
chokin it gets to learn to hunt?

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to
MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???

= most of which is built around the positive
= reinforcement of completing retrieves.

You mean like table work? Or tying IT to a tree
and beatin IT with at stick to make it "REALLY
DIG HOWET?"

= (Some trainers complete the task in one week.)

Takes you six months to train a dog IF you get LUCKY.

= It "opens the door"

You mean the beatin dogs with sticks an
twistin an pinchin their ears and shockin them.

= for the dogs to do the work they were bred
= to love and to accompany their owners hunting-

You mean instead of askin the dog if he
wants to go huntin?

= -and in such a way that their owners aren't
= constantly losing their tempers!

Tempers? You mean, when you go HOWET
to ENJOY a day of murderin some innocent
critters?

=The force used in the procedure is *not* typical
=of the dog's whole course of training nor the treatment
=the dog receives while working.

"REINFORCEMENT NEVER ENDS."

Ain't that correct, lyin frosty dahl.

=If you want to read the original, go to

You coulda just copied the pertinent text here....

=http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force1.html

That's NICE. The PERTINENT TEXT is not on that page...

=Amy Frost Dahl Retriever Training phone: (910) 295-6710
=Oak Hill Kennel & Handling email: amy(at)oakhillkennel.com
=Pinehurst, NC 28370
======================

After a gentle reminder she finallly gave the correct link:

= 2. I thought there was a link to Part II of the article, but
= I re-read Part I after posting the link and there is not.
= If you want to read Part II, you can click on the link
= to the Library page and find it there, or just go to
= http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force2.html .
=--
=Amy Frost Dahl Retriever Training phone: (910) 295-6710
=Oak Hill Kennel & Handling
=================================


Lil' Dave
2005-07-17 07:26:35 EST
Don't know how you expect anyone to take you seriously. You can't even
spell simple words correctly in many cases, and use capitalization like a
whim. You should consider training yourself before assuming a position for
training others including animals. Until you address that issue, I sure
won't consider anything you have to say.

<*r@Animail.Net> wrote in message
news:1121556574.027017.276690@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
HOWEDY Lil' Dave,



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