Dog Discussion: Denver On A Dog "Witch Hunt"

Denver On A Dog "Witch Hunt"
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Freedom Fries
2005-06-17 21:44:52 EST
Stupid morons. The owners are the problem not the dogs. Good owners are
being punished for the acts of a few abusive owners.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2358&ncid=2358&e=4&u=/csm/20050617
/ts_csm/apitbull_1

DENVER - During a recent Sunday drive here, Sonya Dias had one thing on her
mind: Get out of the city limits as quickly as possible without letting her
cargo be seen. In the back of her Toyota RAV4, she was carrying Zena, a pit
bull, whom she hoped to keep from city officials - and possible death.

Ms. Dias is part of an unusual "underground railroad" intent on transporting
Denver's pit bulls to safety before city officials can impound and euthanize
them. Last month, the city renewed one of the most sweeping bans in the
nation against the breed and, since May 9, more than 150 pit bulls have been
put down.

Denver's move lies at the center of a growing controversy over how far
cities should go in protecting the public from potentially dangerous dogs.

Across the country, serious or fatal attacks by pit bulls continue to
generate public concern. The issue is raising basic questions about the
balance between public safety and owners' rights and whether the problem
lies with the breed or their handlers.

Not surprisingly, pit bull supporters say the controversial dogs are
unfairly stereotyped: They see them as loving and well-mannered. "[The ban
is] the equivalent, to me, of saying, 'You have to give up your children,'"
says Dias, a 30-something mortgage banker who is helping lead the opposition
to the city ban.

Supporters are becoming increasingly vocal against the ban, signing
petitions, staging a protest, and volunteering to drive dogs 100 miles away
to an animal sanctuary in the south Colorado mountain town of Divide.

The Denver City Council, meantime, is standing by enforcement of the pit
bull ban.

"The problem is when you have a specific breed used for dog fighting and to
protect drug premises," says Councilwoman Carol Boigon, "and they're trained
to be rough."

>From 1984 to 1989, according to the city's website, Colorado saw 20 pit bull
attacks. In Denver, that included the 1986 death of a 3-year-old boy, and
the 1989 mauling that left 59-year-old Rev. Wilbur Billingsley with over 70
bites and two broken legs.

In 1989, the City Council passed a resolution banning the dogs from Denver.

Municipalities across the nation have wrestled with how to balance crackdown
protests from dog owners and keeping public spaces free from dangerous dogs.
A handful of cities have outright bans like Denver's. Georgia and New Mexico
have recently introduced bills that would ban the breed statewide.

However, 12 states - including Colorado - have passed legislation to
prohibit breed-specific bans, according to the National Conference of State
Legislators.

In 2004, Gov. Bill Owens signed a bill prohibiting local governments from
regulating a specific breed - which applied to pit bulls, although
technically they are not a single breed.



Fred Waiss, Sr.
2005-06-18 07:26:49 EST

"Freedom Fries" <bushwasresponsible@911.com> wrote in message
news:42b37c70_1@x-privat.org...
> Stupid morons. The owners are the problem not the dogs. Good owners are
> being punished for the acts of a few abusive owners.
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2358&ncid=2358&e=4&u=/csm/20050617
> /ts_csm/apitbull_1
>
> DENVER - During a recent Sunday drive here, Sonya Dias had one thing on her
> mind: Get out of the city limits as quickly as possible without letting her
> cargo be seen. In the back of her Toyota RAV4, she was carrying Zena, a pit
> bull, whom she hoped to keep from city officials - and possible death.
>
> Ms. Dias is part of an unusual "underground railroad" intent on transporting
> Denver's pit bulls to safety before city officials can impound and euthanize
> them. Last month, the city renewed one of the most sweeping bans in the
> nation against the breed and, since May 9, more than 150 pit bulls have been
> put down.
>
> Denver's move lies at the center of a growing controversy over how far
> cities should go in protecting the public from potentially dangerous dogs.
>
> Across the country, serious or fatal attacks by pit bulls continue to
> generate public concern. The issue is raising basic questions about the
> balance between public safety and owners' rights and whether the problem
> lies with the breed or their handlers.
>
> Not surprisingly, pit bull supporters say the controversial dogs are
> unfairly stereotyped: They see them as loving and well-mannered. "[The ban
> is] the equivalent, to me, of saying, 'You have to give up your children,'"
> says Dias, a 30-something mortgage banker who is helping lead the opposition
> to the city ban.
>
> Supporters are becoming increasingly vocal against the ban, signing
> petitions, staging a protest, and volunteering to drive dogs 100 miles away
> to an animal sanctuary in the south Colorado mountain town of Divide.
>
> The Denver City Council, meantime, is standing by enforcement of the pit
> bull ban.
>
> "The problem is when you have a specific breed used for dog fighting and to
> protect drug premises," says Councilwoman Carol Boigon, "and they're trained
> to be rough."
>
> From 1984 to 1989, according to the city's website, Colorado saw 20 pit bull
> attacks. In Denver, that included the 1986 death of a 3-year-old boy, and
> the 1989 mauling that left 59-year-old Rev. Wilbur Billingsley with over 70
> bites and two broken legs.
>
Compare this to the number of people killed or permanently injured by
drunk drivers. The dogs can't help it. The drunks can. Maybe the wrong breed
is being put down?
Personally, though I have no love for pit bulls, I think Denver has
exceeded good sense. A more sensible policy might be to require large warning
signs at the dog's residence and any demonstration of undue aggression will then
result in death. Any dog lovers that want a big dog can get a golden retriever.
Any pit bull used to protect drug premises should be imprisoned and
rehabilitated. Put down the owner.

.....................FW

> In 1989, the City Council passed a resolution banning the dogs from Denver.
>
> Municipalities across the nation have wrestled with how to balance crackdown
> protests from dog owners and keeping public spaces free from dangerous dogs.
> A handful of cities have outright bans like Denver's. Georgia and New Mexico
> have recently introduced bills that would ban the breed statewide.
>
> However, 12 states - including Colorado - have passed legislation to
> prohibit breed-specific bans, according to the National Conference of State
> Legislators.
>
> In 2004, Gov. Bill Owens signed a bill prohibiting local governments from
> regulating a specific breed - which applied to pit bulls, although
> technically they are not a single breed.
>
>


JD\eagles\
2005-06-18 08:24:05 EST

"Fred Waiss, Sr." <waiss@centurytel.net> wrote in message
news:H4GdnWj-_99jmSnfRVn-tg@centurytel.net...
>
> "Freedom Fries" <bushwasresponsible@911.com> wrote in message
> news:42b37c70_1@x-privat.org...
> > Stupid morons. The owners are the problem not the dogs. Good owners are
> > being punished for the acts of a few abusive owners.
> >
> >
> http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2358&ncid=2358&e=4&u=/csm/20050617
> > /ts_csm/apitbull_1
> >
> > DENVER - During a recent Sunday drive here, Sonya Dias had one thing on
> her
> > mind: Get out of the city limits as quickly as possible without letting
> her
> > cargo be seen. In the back of her Toyota RAV4, she was carrying Zena, a
> pit
> > bull, whom she hoped to keep from city officials - and possible death.
> >
> > Ms. Dias is part of an unusual "underground railroad" intent on
> transporting
> > Denver's pit bulls to safety before city officials can impound and
> euthanize
> > them. Last month, the city renewed one of the most sweeping bans in the
> > nation against the breed and, since May 9, more than 150 pit bulls have
> been
> > put down.
> >
> > Denver's move lies at the center of a growing controversy over how far
> > cities should go in protecting the public from potentially dangerous
> dogs.
> >
> > Across the country, serious or fatal attacks by pit bulls continue to
> > generate public concern. The issue is raising basic questions about the
> > balance between public safety and owners' rights and whether the
> problem
> > lies with the breed or their handlers.
> >
> > Not surprisingly, pit bull supporters say the controversial dogs are
> > unfairly stereotyped: They see them as loving and well-mannered. "[The
> ban
> > is] the equivalent, to me, of saying, 'You have to give up your
> children,'"
> > says Dias, a 30-something mortgage banker who is helping lead the
> opposition
> > to the city ban.
> >
> > Supporters are becoming increasingly vocal against the ban, signing
> > petitions, staging a protest, and volunteering to drive dogs 100 miles
> away
> > to an animal sanctuary in the south Colorado mountain town of Divide.
> >
> > The Denver City Council, meantime, is standing by enforcement of the
> pit
> > bull ban.
> >
> > "The problem is when you have a specific breed used for dog fighting
> and to
> > protect drug premises," says Councilwoman Carol Boigon, "and they're
> trained
> > to be rough."
> >
> > From 1984 to 1989, according to the city's website, Colorado saw 20 pit
> bull
> > attacks. In Denver, that included the 1986 death of a 3-year-old boy,
> and
> > the 1989 mauling that left 59-year-old Rev. Wilbur Billingsley with
> over 70
> > bites and two broken legs.
> >
> Compare this to the number of people killed or permanently
> injured by drunk drivers. The dogs can't help it. The drunks can.
> Maybe the wrong breed is being put down?
> Personally, though I have no love for pit bulls, I think Denver
> has exceeded good sense. A more sensible policy might be to require large
> warning signs at the dog's residence and any demonstration of undue
> aggression will then result in death. Any dog lovers that want a big dog
> can get a golden retriever.
> Any pit bull used to protect drug premises should be imprisoned
> and rehabilitated. Put down the owner.
>
> .....................FW
>
> > In 1989, the City Council passed a resolution banning the dogs from
> Denver.
> >
> > Municipalities across the nation have wrestled with how to balance
> crackdown
> > protests from dog owners and keeping public spaces free from dangerous
> dogs.
> > A handful of cities have outright bans like Denver's. Georgia and New
> Mexico
> > have recently introduced bills that would ban the breed statewide.
> >
> > However, 12 states - including Colorado - have passed legislation to
> > prohibit breed-specific bans, according to the National Conference of
> State
> > Legislators.
> >
> > In 2004, Gov. Bill Owens signed a bill prohibiting local governments
> from
> > regulating a specific breed - which applied to pit bulls, although
> > technically they are not a single breed.
> >
> >
>

Pit Bulls should be banned and destroyed.
Man has instilled bloodlust in this animal for hundreds of years.
It's in it's blood. Recently there was an old woman in my area,
in her 80's, that was walking her poodle when three Pit Bulls
jumped their fence and mauled her and the poodle to death.
They can be sweet and cuddly when treated well, but if they are
mistreated, or one goes in heat and there are males around,
if they miss a couple meals and get grouchy, they will turn on
you.



JD\eagles\
2005-06-18 08:31:17 EST

"Fred Waiss, Sr." <waiss@centurytel.net> wrote in message
news:H4GdnWj-_99jmSnfRVn-tg@centurytel.net...
>
> "Freedom Fries" <bushwasresponsible@911.com> wrote in message
> news:42b37c70_1@x-privat.org...
> > Stupid morons. The owners are the problem not the dogs. Good owners are
> > being punished for the acts of a few abusive owners.
> >
> >
> http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2358&ncid=2358&e=4&u=/csm/20050617
> > /ts_csm/apitbull_1
> >
> > DENVER - During a recent Sunday drive here, Sonya Dias had one thing on
> her
> > mind: Get out of the city limits as quickly as possible without letting
> her
> > cargo be seen. In the back of her Toyota RAV4, she was carrying Zena, a
> pit
> > bull, whom she hoped to keep from city officials - and possible death.
> >
> > Ms. Dias is part of an unusual "underground railroad" intent on
> transporting
> > Denver's pit bulls to safety before city officials can impound and
> euthanize
> > them. Last month, the city renewed one of the most sweeping bans in the
> > nation against the breed and, since May 9, more than 150 pit bulls have
> been
> > put down.
> >
> > Denver's move lies at the center of a growing controversy over how far
> > cities should go in protecting the public from potentially dangerous
> dogs.
> >
> > Across the country, serious or fatal attacks by pit bulls continue to
> > generate public concern. The issue is raising basic questions about the
> > balance between public safety and owners' rights and whether the
> problem
> > lies with the breed or their handlers.
> >
> > Not surprisingly, pit bull supporters say the controversial dogs are
> > unfairly stereotyped: They see them as loving and well-mannered. "[The
> ban
> > is] the equivalent, to me, of saying, 'You have to give up your
> children,'"
> > says Dias, a 30-something mortgage banker who is helping lead the
> opposition
> > to the city ban.
> >
> > Supporters are becoming increasingly vocal against the ban, signing
> > petitions, staging a protest, and volunteering to drive dogs 100 miles
> away
> > to an animal sanctuary in the south Colorado mountain town of Divide.
> >
> > The Denver City Council, meantime, is standing by enforcement of the
> pit
> > bull ban.
> >
> > "The problem is when you have a specific breed used for dog fighting
> and to
> > protect drug premises," says Councilwoman Carol Boigon, "and they're
> trained
> > to be rough."
> >
> > From 1984 to 1989, according to the city's website, Colorado saw 20 pit
> bull
> > attacks. In Denver, that included the 1986 death of a 3-year-old boy,
> and
> > the 1989 mauling that left 59-year-old Rev. Wilbur Billingsley with
> over 70
> > bites and two broken legs.
> >
> Compare this to the number of people killed or permanently
> injured by drunk drivers. The dogs can't help it. The drunks can.
> Maybe the wrong breed is being put down?
> Personally, though I have no love for pit bulls, I think Denver
> has exceeded good sense. A more sensible policy might be to require large
> warning signs at the dog's residence and any demonstration of undue
> aggression will then result in death. Any dog lovers that want a big dog
> can get a golden retriever.
> Any pit bull used to protect drug premises should be imprisoned
> and rehabilitated. Put down the owner.
>
> .....................FW

In the recent attack and killing of a 12 year old boy in SF, he was white
and
the family owned the dog. The family were not drug dealers.
The mother locked her son in the basement to run some errands.
The boy got out and was mauled to death.
The female of two Pit Bulls was in heat.

It's a stereotype to say Pit Bulls are only owned by drug dealers.
In my neighborhood I have three neighbors who own Pit Bulls,
all white, all have respectable jobs.

This dog has been bread for many generations to do one thing,
fight other dogs to the death.


>
> > In 1989, the City Council passed a resolution banning the dogs from
> Denver.
> >
> > Municipalities across the nation have wrestled with how to balance
> crackdown
> > protests from dog owners and keeping public spaces free from dangerous
> dogs.
> > A handful of cities have outright bans like Denver's. Georgia and New
> Mexico
> > have recently introduced bills that would ban the breed statewide.
> >
> > However, 12 states - including Colorado - have passed legislation to
> > prohibit breed-specific bans, according to the National Conference of
> State
> > Legislators.
> >
> > In 2004, Gov. Bill Owens signed a bill prohibiting local governments
> from
> > regulating a specific breed - which applied to pit bulls, although
> > technically they are not a single breed.
> >
> >
>



L Alpert
2005-06-18 10:20:48 EST
JD(eagles) wrote:
> "Fred Waiss, Sr." <waiss@centurytel.net> wrote in message
> news:H4GdnWj-_99jmSnfRVn-tg@centurytel.net...
>>
>> "Freedom Fries" <bushwasresponsible@911.com> wrote in message
>> news:42b37c70_1@x-privat.org...
>> > Stupid morons. The owners are the problem not the dogs. Good
>> owners are > being punished for the acts of a few abusive owners.
>> >
>> >
>> http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2358&ncid=2358&e=4&u=/csm/20050617
>> > /ts_csm/apitbull_1
>> >
>> > DENVER - During a recent Sunday drive here, Sonya Dias had one
>> thing on her
>> > mind: Get out of the city limits as quickly as possible without
>> letting her
>> > cargo be seen. In the back of her Toyota RAV4, she was carrying
>> Zena, a pit
>> > bull, whom she hoped to keep from city officials - and possible
>> death. >
>> > Ms. Dias is part of an unusual "underground railroad" intent on
>> transporting
>> > Denver's pit bulls to safety before city officials can impound and
>> euthanize
>> > them. Last month, the city renewed one of the most sweeping bans
>> in the > nation against the breed and, since May 9, more than 150
>> pit bulls have been
>> > put down.
>> >
>> > Denver's move lies at the center of a growing controversy over
>> how far > cities should go in protecting the public from
>> potentially dangerous dogs.
>> >
>> > Across the country, serious or fatal attacks by pit bulls
>> continue to > generate public concern. The issue is raising basic
>> questions about the > balance between public safety and owners'
>> rights and whether the problem
>> > lies with the breed or their handlers.
>> >
>> > Not surprisingly, pit bull supporters say the controversial dogs
>> are > unfairly stereotyped: They see them as loving and
>> well-mannered. "[The ban
>> > is] the equivalent, to me, of saying, 'You have to give up your
>> children,'"
>> > says Dias, a 30-something mortgage banker who is helping lead the
>> opposition
>> > to the city ban.
>> >
>> > Supporters are becoming increasingly vocal against the ban,
>> signing > petitions, staging a protest, and volunteering to drive
>> dogs 100 miles away
>> > to an animal sanctuary in the south Colorado mountain town of
>> Divide. >
>> > The Denver City Council, meantime, is standing by enforcement of
>> the pit
>> > bull ban.
>> >
>> > "The problem is when you have a specific breed used for dog
>> fighting and to
>> > protect drug premises," says Councilwoman Carol Boigon, "and
>> they're trained
>> > to be rough."
>> >
>> > From 1984 to 1989, according to the city's website, Colorado saw
>> 20 pit bull
>> > attacks. In Denver, that included the 1986 death of a 3-year-old
>> boy, and
>> > the 1989 mauling that left 59-year-old Rev. Wilbur Billingsley
>> with over 70
>> > bites and two broken legs.
>> >
>> Compare this to the number of people killed or permanently
>> injured by drunk drivers. The dogs can't help it. The drunks can.
>> Maybe the wrong breed is being put down?
>> Personally, though I have no love for pit bulls, I think
>> Denver has exceeded good sense. A more sensible policy might be to
>> require large warning signs at the dog's residence and any
>> demonstration of undue aggression will then result in death. Any
>> dog lovers that want a big dog can get a golden retriever.
>> Any pit bull used to protect drug premises should be
>> imprisoned and rehabilitated. Put down the owner.
>>
>> .....................FW
>>
>> > In 1989, the City Council passed a resolution banning the dogs
>> from Denver.
>> >
>> > Municipalities across the nation have wrestled with how to balance
>> crackdown
>> > protests from dog owners and keeping public spaces free from
>> dangerous dogs.
>> > A handful of cities have outright bans like Denver's. Georgia and
>> New Mexico
>> > have recently introduced bills that would ban the breed statewide.
>> >
>> > However, 12 states - including Colorado - have passed legislation
>> to > prohibit breed-specific bans, according to the National
>> Conference of State
>> > Legislators.
>> >
>> > In 2004, Gov. Bill Owens signed a bill prohibiting local
>> governments from
>> > regulating a specific breed - which applied to pit bulls, although
>> > technically they are not a single breed.
>> >
>> >
>>
>
> Pit Bulls should be banned and destroyed.
> Man has instilled bloodlust in this animal for hundreds of years.
> It's in it's blood. Recently there was an old woman in my area,
> in her 80's, that was walking her poodle when three Pit Bulls
> jumped their fence and mauled her and the poodle to death.
> They can be sweet and cuddly when treated well, but if they are
> mistreated, or one goes in heat and there are males around,
> if they miss a couple meals and get grouchy, they will turn on
> you.

The boy that was killed in SF recently, the woman left the house instructing
her son to stay in the basement as she knew the female was in heat and that
the male dog was acting "aggressive".

Responsible owners neuter their animals. This woman should be put in
jail......it was her fault for not having the dogs neutered and then knowing
they were acting aggressive and keeping them. I had mine neutered as soon
as he was old enough.






L Alpert
2005-06-18 10:26:21 EST
JD(eagles) wrote:
> "Fred Waiss, Sr." <waiss@centurytel.net> wrote in message
> news:H4GdnWj-_99jmSnfRVn-tg@centurytel.net...
>>
>> "Freedom Fries" <bushwasresponsible@911.com> wrote in message
>> news:42b37c70_1@x-privat.org...
>> > Stupid morons. The owners are the problem not the dogs. Good
>> owners are > being punished for the acts of a few abusive owners.
>> >
>> >
>> http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2358&ncid=2358&e=4&u=/csm/20050617
>> > /ts_csm/apitbull_1
>> >
>> > DENVER - During a recent Sunday drive here, Sonya Dias had one
>> thing on her
>> > mind: Get out of the city limits as quickly as possible without
>> letting her
>> > cargo be seen. In the back of her Toyota RAV4, she was carrying
>> Zena, a pit
>> > bull, whom she hoped to keep from city officials - and possible
>> death. >
>> > Ms. Dias is part of an unusual "underground railroad" intent on
>> transporting
>> > Denver's pit bulls to safety before city officials can impound and
>> euthanize
>> > them. Last month, the city renewed one of the most sweeping bans
>> in the > nation against the breed and, since May 9, more than 150
>> pit bulls have been
>> > put down.
>> >
>> > Denver's move lies at the center of a growing controversy over
>> how far > cities should go in protecting the public from
>> potentially dangerous dogs.
>> >
>> > Across the country, serious or fatal attacks by pit bulls
>> continue to > generate public concern. The issue is raising basic
>> questions about the > balance between public safety and owners'
>> rights and whether the problem
>> > lies with the breed or their handlers.
>> >
>> > Not surprisingly, pit bull supporters say the controversial dogs
>> are > unfairly stereotyped: They see them as loving and
>> well-mannered. "[The ban
>> > is] the equivalent, to me, of saying, 'You have to give up your
>> children,'"
>> > says Dias, a 30-something mortgage banker who is helping lead the
>> opposition
>> > to the city ban.
>> >
>> > Supporters are becoming increasingly vocal against the ban,
>> signing > petitions, staging a protest, and volunteering to drive
>> dogs 100 miles away
>> > to an animal sanctuary in the south Colorado mountain town of
>> Divide. >
>> > The Denver City Council, meantime, is standing by enforcement of
>> the pit
>> > bull ban.
>> >
>> > "The problem is when you have a specific breed used for dog
>> fighting and to
>> > protect drug premises," says Councilwoman Carol Boigon, "and
>> they're trained
>> > to be rough."
>> >
>> > From 1984 to 1989, according to the city's website, Colorado saw
>> 20 pit bull
>> > attacks. In Denver, that included the 1986 death of a 3-year-old
>> boy, and
>> > the 1989 mauling that left 59-year-old Rev. Wilbur Billingsley
>> with over 70
>> > bites and two broken legs.
>> >
>> Compare this to the number of people killed or permanently
>> injured by drunk drivers. The dogs can't help it. The drunks can.
>> Maybe the wrong breed is being put down?
>> Personally, though I have no love for pit bulls, I think
>> Denver has exceeded good sense. A more sensible policy might be to
>> require large warning signs at the dog's residence and any
>> demonstration of undue aggression will then result in death. Any
>> dog lovers that want a big dog can get a golden retriever.
>> Any pit bull used to protect drug premises should be
>> imprisoned and rehabilitated. Put down the owner.
>>
>> .....................FW
>
> In the recent attack and killing of a 12 year old boy in SF, he was
> white and
> the family owned the dog. The family were not drug dealers.
> The mother locked her son in the basement to run some errands.
> The boy got out and was mauled to death.
> The female of two Pit Bulls was in heat.

This was the mother's fault. If she had to lock the child in the basement,
then she should not have even had the dogs. Neutered animals will not
behave like this.

>
> It's a stereotype to say Pit Bulls are only owned by drug dealers.
> In my neighborhood I have three neighbors who own Pit Bulls,
> all white, all have respectable jobs.

It is a stereotype to say that all pit bulls are dangerous. Well trained
and neutered animals do not act like this. Any dog can be taught to be
mean, and most people initially are afraid of my Newfoundland before the
pit.....He isn't mean, but I could have taught him to be, and would be able
to kill a 12 year old just as easily.

>
> This dog has been bread for many generations to do one thing,
> fight other dogs to the death.

Should we automatically incarcerate children of criminals?


>
>
>>
>> > In 1989, the City Council passed a resolution banning the dogs
>> from Denver.
>> >
>> > Municipalities across the nation have wrestled with how to balance
>> crackdown
>> > protests from dog owners and keeping public spaces free from
>> dangerous dogs.
>> > A handful of cities have outright bans like Denver's. Georgia and
>> New Mexico
>> > have recently introduced bills that would ban the breed statewide.
>> >
>> > However, 12 states - including Colorado - have passed legislation
>> to > prohibit breed-specific bans, according to the National
>> Conference of State
>> > Legislators.
>> >
>> > In 2004, Gov. Bill Owens signed a bill prohibiting local
>> governments from
>> > regulating a specific breed - which applied to pit bulls, although
>> > technically they are not a single breed.
>> >
>> >



Fred Waiss, Sr.
2005-06-18 14:28:38 EST

"JD(eagles)" <JDeagles@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:zZ-dnSkw4PGSiSnfRVn-1w@adelphia.com...
>
> "Fred Waiss, Sr." <waiss@centurytel.net> wrote in message
> news:H4GdnWj-_99jmSnfRVn-tg@centurytel.net...
>>
>> "Freedom Fries" <bushwasresponsible@911.com> wrote in message
>> news:42b37c70_1@x-privat.org...
>> > Stupid morons. The owners are the problem not the dogs. Good owners are
>> > being punished for the acts of a few abusive owners.
>> >
>> >
>>
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2358&ncid=2358&e=4&u=/csm/20050617
>> > /ts_csm/apitbull_1
>> >
>> > DENVER - During a recent Sunday drive here, Sonya Dias had one thing on
>> her
>> > mind: Get out of the city limits as quickly as possible without letting
>> her
>> > cargo be seen. In the back of her Toyota RAV4, she was carrying Zena, a
>> pit
>> > bull, whom she hoped to keep from city officials - and possible death.
>> >
>> > Ms. Dias is part of an unusual "underground railroad" intent on
>> transporting
>> > Denver's pit bulls to safety before city officials can impound and
>> euthanize
>> > them. Last month, the city renewed one of the most sweeping bans in the
>> > nation against the breed and, since May 9, more than 150 pit bulls have
>> been
>> > put down.
>> >
>> > Denver's move lies at the center of a growing controversy over how far
>> > cities should go in protecting the public from potentially dangerous
>> dogs.
>> >
>> > Across the country, serious or fatal attacks by pit bulls continue to
>> > generate public concern. The issue is raising basic questions about the
>> > balance between public safety and owners' rights and whether the
>> problem
>> > lies with the breed or their handlers.
>> >
>> > Not surprisingly, pit bull supporters say the controversial dogs are
>> > unfairly stereotyped: They see them as loving and well-mannered. "[The
>> ban
>> > is] the equivalent, to me, of saying, 'You have to give up your
>> children,'"
>> > says Dias, a 30-something mortgage banker who is helping lead the
>> opposition
>> > to the city ban.
>> >
>> > Supporters are becoming increasingly vocal against the ban, signing
>> > petitions, staging a protest, and volunteering to drive dogs 100 miles
>> away
>> > to an animal sanctuary in the south Colorado mountain town of Divide.
>> >
>> > The Denver City Council, meantime, is standing by enforcement of the
>> pit
>> > bull ban.
>> >
>> > "The problem is when you have a specific breed used for dog fighting
>> and to
>> > protect drug premises," says Councilwoman Carol Boigon, "and they're
>> trained
>> > to be rough."
>> >
>> > From 1984 to 1989, according to the city's website, Colorado saw 20 pit
>> bull
>> > attacks. In Denver, that included the 1986 death of a 3-year-old boy,
>> and
>> > the 1989 mauling that left 59-year-old Rev. Wilbur Billingsley with
>> over 70
>> > bites and two broken legs.
>> >
>> Compare this to the number of people killed or permanently
>> injured by drunk drivers. The dogs can't help it. The drunks can.
>> Maybe the wrong breed is being put down?
>> Personally, though I have no love for pit bulls, I think Denver
>> has exceeded good sense. A more sensible policy might be to require large
>> warning signs at the dog's residence and any demonstration of undue
>> aggression will then result in death. Any dog lovers that want a big dog
>> can get a golden retriever.
>> Any pit bull used to protect drug premises should be imprisoned
>> and rehabilitated. Put down the owner.
>>
>> .....................FW
>
> In the recent attack and killing of a 12 year old boy in SF, he was white
> and
> the family owned the dog. The family were not drug dealers.
> The mother locked her son in the basement to run some errands.
> The boy got out and was mauled to death.
> The female of two Pit Bulls was in heat.
>
> It's a stereotype to say Pit Bulls are only owned by drug dealers.
> In my neighborhood I have three neighbors who own Pit Bulls,
> all white, all have respectable jobs.
>
I certainly wasn't implying that all pit bulls are owned by drug
dealers. The original article mentioned this and I was commenting on that use
specifically. Perhaps Denver and other cities should exempt nuetered dogs?

> This dog has been bread for many generations to do one thing,
> fight other dogs to the death.
>
>
>>
>> > In 1989, the City Council passed a resolution banning the dogs from
>> Denver.
>> >
>> > Municipalities across the nation have wrestled with how to balance
>> crackdown
>> > protests from dog owners and keeping public spaces free from dangerous
>> dogs.
>> > A handful of cities have outright bans like Denver's. Georgia and New
>> Mexico
>> > have recently introduced bills that would ban the breed statewide.
>> >
>> > However, 12 states - including Colorado - have passed legislation to
>> > prohibit breed-specific bans, according to the National Conference of
>> State
>> > Legislators.
>> >
>> > In 2004, Gov. Bill Owens signed a bill prohibiting local governments
>> from
>> > regulating a specific breed - which applied to pit bulls, although
>> > technically they are not a single breed.
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>


JD\eagles\
2005-06-18 16:38:56 EST

"L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote in message
news:T4qdnZbywMWQsinfRVn-oA@comcast.com...
> JD(eagles) wrote:
>> "Fred Waiss, Sr." <waiss@centurytel.net> wrote in message
>> news:H4GdnWj-_99jmSnfRVn-tg@centurytel.net...
>>>
>>> "Freedom Fries" <bushwasresponsible@911.com> wrote in message
>>> news:42b37c70_1@x-privat.org...
>>> > Stupid morons. The owners are the problem not the dogs. Good
>>> owners are > being punished for the acts of a few abusive owners.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2358&ncid=2358&e=4&u=/csm/20050617
>>> > /ts_csm/apitbull_1
>>> >
>>> > DENVER - During a recent Sunday drive here, Sonya Dias had one
>>> thing on her
>>> > mind: Get out of the city limits as quickly as possible without
>>> letting her
>>> > cargo be seen. In the back of her Toyota RAV4, she was carrying
>>> Zena, a pit
>>> > bull, whom she hoped to keep from city officials - and possible
>>> death. >
>>> > Ms. Dias is part of an unusual "underground railroad" intent on
>>> transporting
>>> > Denver's pit bulls to safety before city officials can impound and
>>> euthanize
>>> > them. Last month, the city renewed one of the most sweeping bans
>>> in the > nation against the breed and, since May 9, more than 150
>>> pit bulls have been
>>> > put down.
>>> >
>>> > Denver's move lies at the center of a growing controversy over
>>> how far > cities should go in protecting the public from
>>> potentially dangerous dogs.
>>> >
>>> > Across the country, serious or fatal attacks by pit bulls
>>> continue to > generate public concern. The issue is raising basic
>>> questions about the > balance between public safety and owners'
>>> rights and whether the problem
>>> > lies with the breed or their handlers.
>>> >
>>> > Not surprisingly, pit bull supporters say the controversial dogs
>>> are > unfairly stereotyped: They see them as loving and
>>> well-mannered. "[The ban
>>> > is] the equivalent, to me, of saying, 'You have to give up your
>>> children,'"
>>> > says Dias, a 30-something mortgage banker who is helping lead the
>>> opposition
>>> > to the city ban.
>>> >
>>> > Supporters are becoming increasingly vocal against the ban,
>>> signing > petitions, staging a protest, and volunteering to drive
>>> dogs 100 miles away
>>> > to an animal sanctuary in the south Colorado mountain town of
>>> Divide. >
>>> > The Denver City Council, meantime, is standing by enforcement of
>>> the pit
>>> > bull ban.
>>> >
>>> > "The problem is when you have a specific breed used for dog
>>> fighting and to
>>> > protect drug premises," says Councilwoman Carol Boigon, "and
>>> they're trained
>>> > to be rough."
>>> >
>>> > From 1984 to 1989, according to the city's website, Colorado saw
>>> 20 pit bull
>>> > attacks. In Denver, that included the 1986 death of a 3-year-old
>>> boy, and
>>> > the 1989 mauling that left 59-year-old Rev. Wilbur Billingsley
>>> with over 70
>>> > bites and two broken legs.
>>> >
>>> Compare this to the number of people killed or permanently
>>> injured by drunk drivers. The dogs can't help it. The drunks can.
>>> Maybe the wrong breed is being put down?
>>> Personally, though I have no love for pit bulls, I think
>>> Denver has exceeded good sense. A more sensible policy might be to
>>> require large warning signs at the dog's residence and any
>>> demonstration of undue aggression will then result in death. Any
>>> dog lovers that want a big dog can get a golden retriever.
>>> Any pit bull used to protect drug premises should be
>>> imprisoned and rehabilitated. Put down the owner.
>>>
>>> .....................FW
>>
>> In the recent attack and killing of a 12 year old boy in SF, he was
>> white and
>> the family owned the dog. The family were not drug dealers.
>> The mother locked her son in the basement to run some errands.
>> The boy got out and was mauled to death.
>> The female of two Pit Bulls was in heat.
>
> This was the mother's fault. If she had to lock the child in the
> basement, then she should not have even had the dogs. Neutered animals
> will not behave like this.
>
>>
>> It's a stereotype to say Pit Bulls are only owned by drug dealers.
>> In my neighborhood I have three neighbors who own Pit Bulls,
>> all white, all have respectable jobs.
>
> It is a stereotype to say that all pit bulls are dangerous. Well trained
> and neutered animals do not act like this. Any dog can be taught to be
> mean, and most people initially are afraid of my Newfoundland before the
> pit.....He isn't mean, but I could have taught him to be, and would be
> able to kill a 12 year old just as easily.
>
>>
>> This dog has been bread for many generations to do one thing,
>> fight other dogs to the death.
>
> Should we automatically incarcerate children of criminals?

Bad example. This is a animal, animals have genetic instinctual traits.
These animals have been breed to be fighters, hence the name "Pit".
Criminals make choices to commit crimes, children
don't become criminals because of centuries of breeding.




>
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> > In 1989, the City Council passed a resolution banning the dogs
>>> from Denver.
>>> >
>>> > Municipalities across the nation have wrestled with how to balance
>>> crackdown
>>> > protests from dog owners and keeping public spaces free from
>>> dangerous dogs.
>>> > A handful of cities have outright bans like Denver's. Georgia and
>>> New Mexico
>>> > have recently introduced bills that would ban the breed statewide.
>>> >
>>> > However, 12 states - including Colorado - have passed legislation
>>> to > prohibit breed-specific bans, according to the National
>>> Conference of State
>>> > Legislators.
>>> >
>>> > In 2004, Gov. Bill Owens signed a bill prohibiting local
>>> governments from
>>> > regulating a specific breed - which applied to pit bulls, although
>>> > technically they are not a single breed.
>>> >
>>> >
>
>



Scott Stone
2005-06-19 00:55:15 EST
Fred Waiss, Sr. wrote:

>
> "Freedom Fries" <bushwasresponsible@911.com> wrote in message
> news:42b37c70_1@x-privat.org...
> > Stupid morons. The owners are the problem not the dogs. Good owners are
> > being punished for the acts of a few abusive owners.
> >
> >
> http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2358&ncid=2358&e=4&u=/csm/20050617
>
> > /ts_csm/apitbull_1
> >
> > DENVER - During a recent Sunday drive here, Sonya Dias had one thing
> on her
> > mind: Get out of the city limits as quickly as possible without
> letting her
> > cargo be seen. In the back of her Toyota RAV4, she was carrying Zena,
> a pit
> > bull, whom she hoped to keep from city officials - and possible death.
> >
> > Ms. Dias is part of an unusual "underground railroad" intent on
> transporting
> > Denver's pit bulls to safety before city officials can impound and
> euthanize
> > them. Last month, the city renewed one of the most sweeping bans in the
> > nation against the breed and, since May 9, more than 150 pit bulls
> have been
> > put down.
> >
> > Denver's move lies at the center of a growing controversy over how far
> > cities should go in protecting the public from potentially dangerous
> dogs.
> >
> > Across the country, serious or fatal attacks by pit bulls continue to
> > generate public concern. The issue is raising basic questions about the
> > balance between public safety and owners' rights and whether the problem
> > lies with the breed or their handlers.
> >
> > Not surprisingly, pit bull supporters say the controversial dogs are
> > unfairly stereotyped: They see them as loving and well-mannered.
> "[The ban
> > is] the equivalent, to me, of saying, 'You have to give up your
> children,'"
> > says Dias, a 30-something mortgage banker who is helping lead the
> opposition
> > to the city ban.
> >
> > Supporters are becoming increasingly vocal against the ban, signing
> > petitions, staging a protest, and volunteering to drive dogs 100
> miles away
> > to an animal sanctuary in the south Colorado mountain town of Divide.
> >
> > The Denver City Council, meantime, is standing by enforcement of the pit
> > bull ban.
> >
> > "The problem is when you have a specific breed used for dog fighting
> and to
> > protect drug premises," says Councilwoman Carol Boigon, "and they're
> trained
> > to be rough."
> >
> > From 1984 to 1989, according to the city's website, Colorado saw 20
> pit bull
> > attacks. In Denver, that included the 1986 death of a 3-year-old boy,
> and
> > the 1989 mauling that left 59-year-old Rev. Wilbur Billingsley with
> over 70
> > bites and two broken legs.
> >
> Compare this to the number of people killed or permanently
> injured by drunk drivers. The dogs can't help it. The drunks can.
> Maybe the wrong breed is being put down?
> Personally, though I have no love for pit bulls, I think Denver
> has exceeded good sense. A more sensible policy might be to require
> large warning signs at the dog's residence and any demonstration of
> undue aggression will then result in death. Any dog lovers that want a
> big dog can get a golden retriever.
> Any pit bull used to protect drug premises should be imprisoned
> and rehabilitated. Put down the owner.

I agree entirely.

I had a girlfriend once that had 3 Dobermans (yes, two were trained to
be guard dogs). After a while I got to be good friends with 2 of them
(the young one and the bigger guard dog...go figure), but never with the
third.

After they had killed two and injured several animals in the
neighborhood, the city got down on her big time. She couldn't
understand why the picked on her and her dogs, as they were just doing
what came naturally. She just didn't/wouldn't understand!!!


Certain dogs will behave in certain ways. And when a person owns a dog
with a reputation, then you get all the baggage with that breed, like it
or not.


Kinda like owning a car. I had a red sports car. I never got a ticket
(I don't speed...much), but I did get warned several times and got
followed many, many times. Just comes with the territory.

So I agree. Want a big dog, get a Lab or some such. And as to personal
protection... the girls nastiest guard dog was soundly whupped by a nice
friendly Black Lab, that was protecting some little kids that were
playing. That 'wimpy dog' as my friend called it sure made her big bad
animal look bad.




--
Scott

It isn't the gold that I am wanting so much as just finding the gold.
Robert W. Service

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Bodacious
2005-06-19 07:00:41 EST
We had an example here in the UK of the law being an ass. A paedophile was
released from prison and allowed to move back into the street where the
little girl he assaulted still lives. Seems pit bulls are more dangerous
than paedophiles !!
Best wishes
Wess

--
The best things in Life are free -but they are not things.
"Fred Waiss, Sr." <waiss@centurytel.net> wrote in message
news:H4GdnWj-_99jmSnfRVn-tg@centurytel.net...
>
> "Freedom Fries" <bushwasresponsible@911.com> wrote in message
> news:42b37c70_1@x-privat.org...
> > Stupid morons. The owners are the problem not the dogs. Good owners are
> > being punished for the acts of a few abusive owners.
> >
> >
> http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2358&ncid=2358&e=4&u=/csm/20050617
> > /ts_csm/apitbull_1
> >
> > DENVER - During a recent Sunday drive here, Sonya Dias had one thing on
> her
> > mind: Get out of the city limits as quickly as possible without letting
> her
> > cargo be seen. In the back of her Toyota RAV4, she was carrying Zena, a
> pit
> > bull, whom she hoped to keep from city officials - and possible death.
> >
> > Ms. Dias is part of an unusual "underground railroad" intent on
> transporting
> > Denver's pit bulls to safety before city officials can impound and
> euthanize
> > them. Last month, the city renewed one of the most sweeping bans in the
> > nation against the breed and, since May 9, more than 150 pit bulls have
> been
> > put down.
> >
> > Denver's move lies at the center of a growing controversy over how far
> > cities should go in protecting the public from potentially dangerous
> dogs.
> >
> > Across the country, serious or fatal attacks by pit bulls continue to
> > generate public concern. The issue is raising basic questions about the
> > balance between public safety and owners' rights and whether the
> problem
> > lies with the breed or their handlers.
> >
> > Not surprisingly, pit bull supporters say the controversial dogs are
> > unfairly stereotyped: They see them as loving and well-mannered. "[The
> ban
> > is] the equivalent, to me, of saying, 'You have to give up your
> children,'"
> > says Dias, a 30-something mortgage banker who is helping lead the
> opposition
> > to the city ban.
> >
> > Supporters are becoming increasingly vocal against the ban, signing
> > petitions, staging a protest, and volunteering to drive dogs 100 miles
> away
> > to an animal sanctuary in the south Colorado mountain town of Divide.
> >
> > The Denver City Council, meantime, is standing by enforcement of the
> pit
> > bull ban.
> >
> > "The problem is when you have a specific breed used for dog fighting
> and to
> > protect drug premises," says Councilwoman Carol Boigon, "and they're
> trained
> > to be rough."
> >
> > From 1984 to 1989, according to the city's website, Colorado saw 20 pit
> bull
> > attacks. In Denver, that included the 1986 death of a 3-year-old boy,
> and
> > the 1989 mauling that left 59-year-old Rev. Wilbur Billingsley with
> over 70
> > bites and two broken legs.
> >
> Compare this to the number of people killed or permanently
> injured by drunk drivers. The dogs can't help it. The drunks can.
> Maybe the wrong breed is being put down?
> Personally, though I have no love for pit bulls, I think Denver
> has exceeded good sense. A more sensible policy might be to require large
> warning signs at the dog's residence and any demonstration of undue
> aggression will then result in death. Any dog lovers that want a big dog
> can get a golden retriever.
> Any pit bull used to protect drug premises should be imprisoned
> and rehabilitated. Put down the owner.
>
> .....................FW
>
> > In 1989, the City Council passed a resolution banning the dogs from
> Denver.
> >
> > Municipalities across the nation have wrestled with how to balance
> crackdown
> > protests from dog owners and keeping public spaces free from dangerous
> dogs.
> > A handful of cities have outright bans like Denver's. Georgia and New
> Mexico
> > have recently introduced bills that would ban the breed statewide.
> >
> > However, 12 states - including Colorado - have passed legislation to
> > prohibit breed-specific bans, according to the National Conference of
> State
> > Legislators.
> >
> > In 2004, Gov. Bill Owens signed a bill prohibiting local governments
> from
> > regulating a specific breed - which applied to pit bulls, although
> > technically they are not a single breed.
> >
> >
>


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