Dog Discussion: Pregnant On First Heat Concerns

Pregnant On First Heat Concerns
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Randy
2003-09-18 00:27:11 EST
We have a pair of cockapoos. The female is ten months old. She just came
into her first heat. We tried to keep them apart but had a mishap and they
mated. I would like to let her go through with the pregnancy as we wanted
to have a litter anyway. However everyone says not to breed on the first
heat as the female is not always mature enough. Does it always end in
trouble for the mother and puppies or do we have a good chance of having a
healthy litter? Has anybody had experience with having a litter on the
first heat? What should I be aware of?
Thanks,
Robin



Diana
2003-09-18 04:18:55 EST

"Randy" <rhosler@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:zuaab.22453$dk4.699569@typhoon.sonic.net...
> We have a pair of cockapoos. The female is ten months old. She just came
> into her first heat. We tried to keep them apart but had a mishap and
they
> mated. I would like to let her go through with the pregnancy as we wanted
> to have a litter anyway. However everyone says not to breed on the first
> heat as the female is not always mature enough. Does it always end in
> trouble for the mother and puppies or do we have a good chance of having a
> healthy litter? Has anybody had experience with having a litter on the
> first heat? What should I be aware of?
> Thanks,
> Robin
>

At 10 months it would be very much like allowing a 12 year old child to go
through a full term pregnancy. She's too young and I would strongly urge you
to take her to the vets and have this stopped, for the welfare of your
little dog.

The UK kennel club won't register a litter born if the mother is less than 2
years old, not that registration is a matter for you as you are breeding
cross breeds, but their guidelines were drawn up for the protection and
welfare of the dogs.

Please be kind to your dog and take her to the vet.

Diana



Pat
2003-09-18 11:17:21 EST

"Randy" <rhosler@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:zuaab.22453$dk4.699569@typhoon.sonic.net...
> We have a pair of cockapoos. The female is ten months old. She just came
> into her first heat. We tried to keep them apart but had a mishap and
they
> mated. I would like to let her go through with the pregnancy as we wanted
> to have a litter anyway. However everyone says not to breed on the first
> heat as the female is not always mature enough. Does it always end in
> trouble for the mother and puppies or do we have a good chance of having a
> healthy litter? Has anybody had experience with having a litter on the
> first heat? What should I be aware of?
> Thanks,
> Robin
>
>
As this dog is a mere puppy itself ..it would not only be unkind...but
cruel.
It could be very dangerous in an undeveloped dog.
The earliest a dog should have pups is 2 years of age.
I know now it has happened it is tempting to go ahead.
I would urge you to think again please for the sake of your puppy.
Or at the very least tell the vet what has happened and take his advice
ASAP.
Pat




The Puppy Wizard
2003-09-18 23:32:28 EST
HOWEDY diana,

The goddamned genie is HOWETA the bottle.

MURDERING the puppies will NOT be THERAPEUTIC for MOM DOG.

You're a DOG ABUSER, a LIAR, and a MENTAL CASE.

The Puppy Wizard. <} ; ~ ) >


"Diana" <diana@dogstuffagain.fslife.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bkbppd$qsq$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Randy" <rhosler@sonic.net> wrote in message
> news:zuaab.22453$dk4.699569@typhoon.sonic.net...
> > We have a pair of cockapoos. The female is ten months old.
She just came
> > into her first heat. We tried to keep them apart but had a
mishap and
> they
> > mated. I would like to let her go through with the pregnancy
as we wanted
> > to have a litter anyway. However everyone says not to breed
on the first
> > heat as the female is not always mature enough. Does it
always end in
> > trouble for the mother and puppies or do we have a good chance
of having a
> > healthy litter? Has anybody had experience with having a
litter on the
> > first heat? What should I be aware of?
> > Thanks,
> > Robin
> >
>
> At 10 months it would be very much like allowing a 12 year old
child to go
> through a full term pregnancy. She's too young and I would
strongly urge you
> to take her to the vets and have this stopped, for the welfare
of your
> little dog.
>
> The UK kennel club won't register a litter born if the mother is
less than 2
> years old, not that registration is a matter for you as you are
breeding
> cross breeds, but their guidelines were drawn up for the
protection and
> welfare of the dogs.
>
> Please be kind to your dog and take her to the vet.
>
> Diana
>
>



The Puppy Wizard
2003-09-18 23:37:20 EST
HOWEDY pat,

Abortion is NOT an option, it's MURDER.

The RISK of UNNECESSARY, INAPUPRIATE, SURGERY
is greater than the natural course of events, BOTH PHYSICALLY
AND MENTALLY.

MOM DOGS KNOW THEY'RE MOM DOGS.

They GRIEVE the loss of their puppies JUST LIKE
HOWE conscientious DECENT human moms GRIEVE.

Of curse, you and your DOG LOVER PALS here abHOWETS
wouldn't know NUTHIN abHOWET human decency.

The Puppy Wizard. <} ; ~ ) >


"Pat" <Pat@bonniepml.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bkcia1$l5m$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
>
> "Randy" <rhosler@sonic.net> wrote in message
> news:zuaab.22453$dk4.699569@typhoon.sonic.net...
> > We have a pair of cockapoos. The female is ten months old.
She just came
> > into her first heat. We tried to keep them apart but had a
mishap and
> they
> > mated. I would like to let her go through with the pregnancy
as we wanted
> > to have a litter anyway. However everyone says not to breed
on the first
> > heat as the female is not always mature enough. Does it
always end in
> > trouble for the mother and puppies or do we have a good chance
of having a
> > healthy litter? Has anybody had experience with having a
litter on the
> > first heat? What should I be aware of?
> > Thanks,
> > Robin
> >
> >
> As this dog is a mere puppy itself ..it would not only be
unkind...but
> cruel.
> It could be very dangerous in an undeveloped dog.
> The earliest a dog should have pups is 2 years of age.
> I know now it has happened it is tempting to go ahead.
> I would urge you to think again please for the sake of your
puppy.
> Or at the very least tell the vet what has happened and take his
advice
> ASAP.
> Pat
>
>
>



The Puppy Wizard
2003-09-18 23:47:56 EST
HOWEDY Randy,

"Randy" <rhosler@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:zuaab.22453$dk4.699569@typhoon.sonic.net...
>
> We have a pair of cockapoos.

Yeah. HOWER dog lovers was just sayin HOWE you can't
register a litter in UK born to a bitch under 2 years old. That's
probably a mistaken notion, as most of HOWER ETHICAL
and MORAL judgements are MISTAKEN, like the age pups
should leave their litter. They base their policies and beliefs
on FAERIE TAILS.

> The female is ten months old. She just came
> into her first heat. We tried to keep them apart
> but had a mishap and they mated.

Ooops!

> I would like to let her go through with the pregnancy

Of course. You can't take that stuff HOWET.

> as we wanted to have a litter anyway.

Fine. Although HOWER DOG LOVERS do not APPROVE
of mix breed pups, especially when they've got SO MANY
ETHICKALLY BRED purebreeds to find HOWESES for.

> However everyone says not to breed on the first
> heat as the female is not always mature enough.

That's preferable. But Mother Nature sez they can
concieve on their first heat, so that's PERMISSIBLE
by HER.

> Does it always end in trouble for the mother and puppies

Of curse not!

> or do we have a good chance of having a healthy litter?

You've got a better chance than HOWER ETHICKAL BREEDERS.
WON reason for not allHOWEing registration pryor to two years old
is cause of the final screening for dysplasia, sumpthin you're not
likely to get in a cross breed litter.

> Has anybody had experience with having a litter on the first
heat?

The Puppy Wizard has seen a few. There's NO PROBLEM.

> What should I be aware of?

The greatest concern is the MOTHERING ABILITY of an immature
bitch.
She may not know HOWE to take care of them as well as an older
mom.

That's abHOWET it!!!

> Thanks,

You're welcome.

> Robin

Please disregard the LIARS, DOG ABUSERS, and MENTAL CASES
who'll tell you to KILL the puppys. They have no conscience,
morals,
ethics, or human decency.

Here's a partial but HUGELY representative list of HOWER DOG
LOVERS and their MENTAL ILLNESSES, and their abusive methods
and LIES to DEFEND HURTING and KILLING DOGS:

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

> ================
>
>>lynn kosmakos (Lithium, Zoloft, bipolar, manic,
>> depression) will "put down a biter
>> as fast as anyone" yet claims to
>> be a saintly dog rescuer
>>Lynn K. wrote:
>>
>>"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
>>one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
>>schedules and duties causes a great deal of
>>scheduling overhead.
>>
>>And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
>>volunteers get the meaningful experience that
>>they work for.
>>
>>Someone has to be responsible for that
>>Volunteer Program, and it is best done
>>by a non-volunteer."
>>
>>Lynn K.
>>---------------------------------
>>
>>"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
>>every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
>>effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
>>older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.
>>
>>Should I have refused to groom them?
>>
>>Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
>>had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
>>
>>Lynn K.
>>--------------------------------------

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to
MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???


I'll be you've never had to put down litters of
beautiful labrador puppies? If you had did, maybe
you'd be singing a different tune?

"Actually, have held them for the tech to euth, and
put their bodies in the trash bag and in the freezer
for the trash company to come and dispose of.

No different tune," ~Emily

"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me. I volunteered
as assistant to the euthanasia tech at our local shelter
for a while, and I know a bit about overpopulation and
unwanted animals.

This however has nothing at all to do with responsible
breeders, because responsible breeders don't contribute
to that problem," Mustang Sally.

Are those MENTAL CASES, or NOT?

Better report to Soup and update your MENTAL ILLNESS
status. The Puppy Wizard wouldn't wanna push you over
the goddamned edge and see you HURT YOURSELF
from EMBARRASSMENT.

Here's MOORE:

RPD* Mentally Ill AllStaRz as of 7/4/03


-----------------------------------------------
MENTAL ILLNESS IN RPD*
Mental illness is a public issue in these newsgroups.

People are always running around calling other people
mentally ill and diagnosing their illnesses. I think it's only
fair that we have an accurate list of who is and who isn't
mentally ill, so that we can avoid any misunderstandings
and promote group harmony.


Updated list as of 7/04/2003:


list of confirmed or suspected mentally ill (crazy) Regulars
Most of whom are women or homosexuals
=======================================

MaryBeth
MVP (most valuable psycho)
(super psycho bitch lunatic
queen of the mentally fucked
in the head

Has contributed greatly to the annual profit
results at several large pharmaceutical corps
has taken virtually every mentally ill (crazy)
drug treatment in the book, and then some:
prozac, zoloft, amitryptiline, Buspar, Xanax,
effexor, paxil, HRT, wellbutrin, tranquilizers,
clomid, has suffered from or been:

suicidal, agoraphobic, tidal waves of
PMS, mood swings, turned into a hermit,
bloated, just real angry, hubby afraid
of her, high blood pressure, divorced, "raving
bitch"

"zoloft zombie" for four years, "living
through layers and layers of gauze,"

chain smoker, buzzing, weight gain, fatigue,
terrible dry mouth, dull headaches, fuzzy brain,
lack of concentration..etc. severe depression,
severe insomnia,

Panic ALL the time, crying, not sleeping, you
name it...etc...

MaryBeth (on being seriously f'd in the head
aka mentally ill) aka cuckoo! kuckoo! ding! ding! ding!
aka a superpsychotic bitch from hell

"I know for a fact I went thru years of
being overly sensitive, being a b*tch,
being self centered, being self pitying,
you name it, I was a wreck and I ran
over everyone in my path."

"<G> I do know the power of meds, especially
on a long term basis, and it's not pretty.

You become another person, if it's not
the correct med for you.

--All the best,
MaryBeth

"Yup Diane, I am taking Zoloft, and my
Rheumatologist told me that taking
Ultram with it can cause seizures."

"I have all the symptoms.I am suicidal at
times (cyclical) have severe insomnia,
'crawly' skin etc. I have an appt to see
my doc next Friday to test for menopause."

--MaryBeth

"I noticed that antidepressants cut
libido into the dead zone and I had no real
emotions, like not laughing at funny stuff,
couldn't cry either.....except about my suicidal
thoughts (but at the time I thought there was no
other way out)."

--MaryBeth

"Hi, new to group, just starting Clomid
today. I talked with RE and pharmacist re:
zoloft (50 mg daily) and ineraction with Clomid.
They reported none. Not sure about the prozac
tho.

Gonna poat a new message to intorduce myself :)"

--MaryBeth <still feeling like herself> <G>

"I wasted about 10 years of my life, and
lost many many treasured ppl and things.
Please don't do the same.
(((((((SCOUT))))))))))

--MaryBeth

"Slowly but surely my depression got
worse and worse. They put me on meds for it, and
all along kept telling me to wait on the TKR, as
'it really wasn't that bad.....yet". HA!"

The depression got so bad, and lots of other things
happened and my ex and I would up divorced four
years after our move. It was horrible.

The hardest thing I have ever gone thru"

--MaryBeth



Theresa Willis (paxil, depression, robot displacement)

shelly couvrette

OCD, depression, drugs to be named later
(familial mental illness, possibly related to
family bed) obsessively starves her dogs
according to friends, family, strangers and
3 different vets, but not herself

lynn kosmakos (Lithium, Zoloft, bipolar, manic,
depression) will "put down a biter
as fast as anyone" yet claims to
be a saintly dog rescuer

Leah

Effexor for chronic depression, in denial about being
mentally ill. Has taken several other mentally ill
medications before settling on effexor for her chronic
mental problems

Tara Green

was on antidepressants for a few years
prior to her marriage. During her
marriage, she learned a lot:

"With the therapist I saw during my
marriage I learned that some situational
depressions are masked as chemical
simply because of our too human ability
to prolong the impact of the causal
situations indefinitely"

Sounds like more denial, see leah


Tara is also a drunk who has also had
problems with other substances

TARA on being a drunk/substance abuser:

"Tara (who had some problems with quite a
few substances as well, but who thinks they
are separate issues.....so which camp does
that put me in???)"

"Believe it or not, some people don't have
a problem with drugs even though they are
alcoholics. I'm not one of those people, but they do exist."

aka, tara has problems with both

Kevin Michael Vail

various mental illness drugs, started with
zoloft, didn't like that, then went to
antidepressant, stopped after sufficent
side effects, now on SSRI and in therapy

Furpaw (SSRI, cognitive therapy)

Chris Jung (Prozac and Welbutrin, cognitive therapy)

Charlie Wilkes

drugged out, crazy, fucked up all his
life, Christ the shit he's been through
including psych wards and electroshock
treatments but now pulling down major
cash as a business consultant. Triumphing
over adversity, with a damn good life and a
well trained dog (very much unlike Leah)

Karen DuChateaux
aka Karibear

suffered from clinical depression for
years until some drug or something brought her
out of it. Some of her best friends "are certifiable"
and have various degrees of psychoses.

Familial mental disability.

Refuses to say whether or not she is
currently using drug or cognitive therapy
for mental illness.

Mike "DumbOxDumb" Dufort (pending)

threatened non violent dog expert Jerry Howe
with Mike's fully armed US Army Platoon.

Threatened to bring his platoon to Jerry's
HOWSE. also OCD (obsessed with Jerry's posts)

Jim Sabatke Jim is currently on Effexor which he takes
because of his depression/mental problems.

Like many of our mental cases, Jim has
had trouble finding the right med(s) to keep
him from going kuckoo!! kuckoooo!!! or
getting the "brain shivers"

From: Jim Sabatke (jsabatke@execpc.com)
Subject: Re: anyone using Effexor?
alt.support.depression.medication
Date: 2002-11-29 20:25:16 PST

EFFEXOR
"I'm on 375 mg/day and it has worked
wonders for me. The only down side is
that my blood pressure has elevated
somewhat; oh and if I miss a dose by a
couple of hours the "brain shivers" can
be really bad.

Good luck!

Jim"

"I switched from Paxil to Effexor about
5 months ago. I tapered off of the Paxil
and tapered onto the Effexor at the same
time."

Jim

"After several years on Effexor IR, my
pdoc tried switching me to XR. I
experienced fairly severe Effexor
withdrawel until I went back to the IR."

Jim


<YOUR NAME GOES HERE>
(please proudly add your name and the drugs/disorders
specific to you, if you are also mentally ill). If we all come
forward, we can help each other with our problems.

Remember, mental illness is nothing to be ashamed of.

It's not your fault if you have a defective brain which
may cause you to act like an extreme hypocrite and/or
idiot and/or robot without your being aware of it).

Also, please notify us if you are *not* mentally ill, and
have been added to this by mistake, so we can make
our corrections and remove you from the crazy person list.
--
mental health weekly
===========================================

Can you tell the TRUTH from a LIE?:

> > > Jerome Bigge writes:
> > > I do know that hitting, hurting
> > > your dog will often make the
> > > dog either aggressive or a fear
> > > biter, neither of which we want to do.

And then we got, matty! Follow his discussion!
This is what's called, a liar and dog abuser:

> > And neither does anyone else,
> > Jerome. No matter
> > what Jerry Howe states.

"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This I've Suggested It To Quite
A Few Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY
TIME The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer,
33 Years Experience.

You DO remember KILLFILING MARILYN for her coment above
regarding her success with The Puppy Wizard's Surrogate Toy
Separation Anxiety / Bed Time Calming Technique (STSA/BTCT)?

Perhaps you likeWIZE recall a pediatrician, Dr. Z, who
commented that his bed time calming technique was quite
similar?

> > You're scary Marilyn.

> > Marilyn must be quite a disturbed
> > individual. I feel very sorry for her
> > and her family.

"His Amazing Progress Almost Makes Me Cry.
Your Method Takes Positive Training To The
Next Level And Should Really Be Used By All
Trainers Who Call Themselves Trainers. Thank
You For Helping Me Save His Life," Kay Pierce,
Professional Trainer, 30 Years Experience.

> > BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> > doubt, please provide a quote (an
> > original quote, not from one of Jerry
> > Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> > shows a regular poster promoting or
> > using an abusive form of training.

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

> > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to
MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???

"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know
Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If He Thought Solo
Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.

You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN
SHY" dog to be BEATEN by a strange male trainer
is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR for a DOG LOVER?

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."

You think HURTIN dogs and CRINGING
is COURTEOUS?

"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?"

Means the author is a dog abuser of the worst magnitude.

"When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first time,
spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth and walk away.
The dog won't be too thrilled with this but just ignore him
and continue your normal behavior."

You think HURTING your dog is NORMAL BEHAVIOR?

--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"Courteous Canines"

You think HOWER pal mikey is playin with a full deck?

Yeah. When I preload my dog's mouth with bitter apple,
suppose I don't get used to being stupid and cruel, mikey?

Then HOWE do I train my dog if I can't HURT it?

"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My Right Arm Over The Lab's
Shoulder, Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My Left Hand, Rolled
Her On Her Side, Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into Her
Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sionnach.

Oh, THANKS, sinofabitch...

And from terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
something you twisted out of context,
because you are full of bizarro manure."

"Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a
helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.
Tougher, less tractable dogs may require
you to progress to striking them more
sharply," lying frosty dahl, ethical breeder,
expert trainer.

You think a EXXXPERT trainer got to BEAT
a HUNTIN dog to MAKE IT HUNT?

"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.

Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies HURT all
their lives like HOWE HOWER dog lovers PREFER to
HURT THEIR DOGS?

"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."

The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.

We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...

terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
things is something you twisted out of
context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."

Sez on our FAQ'S pages at K9 Web you should knee the dog in
the chest, step on its toes, throw him down by his ears and
climb all over it like a raped ape growling into his throat
and bite IT on his ears, or leash pop it on a pronged spiked
pinch choke collar or pop him in the snout with the heel of
your palm.

"BethF" <dawg@alaska.com> wrote in message
news:ugc7us32ki5fb9@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Frank" <flmarcher@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:d2f1624e.0206101912.2980eb03@posting.google.com...
> > dfrntdrums@aol.comMURK-OFF (Leah) wrote in message
> > news:<20020610173326.01953.00000597@mb-fx.aol.com>...
> > > >"brianev" brianev@attbi.com wrote:
> > > > I ENJOYED reading your book, and
> > > > AGREED with what you had to say.
> > > > I find it sick to hear what people
> > > > do with their dogs.
> > > Keep in mind that everything he says that
> > > the regular posters of this ng do to their
> > > dogs are lies.
> > > All of it. Every last bit.
> > All of it?
> > Ear pinching?
> > Shock collars?
> > Spiked chokers?
> > The regulars lie more in their denials than
> > Howe does in his accusing of them.
:
> Uh, Frank? Who do you see denying anything?
> Its quite interesting that a newbie like yourself
> would see denials when everyone has Jerry
> killfiled and therefore don't even read his posts,
> let alone respond to them.

"Rocky" <2dogs@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?

> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.

> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?

BWWWAWHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

You think matty's playin with a full
goddamned deck?

matty's NOT a liar and dog abuser.

Isn't that true, Marilyn?

Of course not, but THIS IS:

"Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap,"
professora gingold.

"Marshall Dermer" <dermer@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:a3h5qn$mra$1@uwm.edu...

> >Di,

> I don't believe you mentioned a particular
> kind of training. If you are interested in
> training retrieval behavior than do
> consider our own Amy Dahl's:

> The 10-Minute Retriever : How to Make a
> Well-Mannered, Obedient and
> Enthusiastic Gun Dog in 10 Minutes a
> Day by John I. Dahl, Amy Dahl

You failed to mention your pals the dahls are
proven liars and dog abusers, professor "SCRUFF SHAKE:"

"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A
Dog I Do Not Believe There Is A Single
Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A
Dog Is Anything But Destructive,"

LUCKY thing CHIN CHUCK absolutely don't
mean slap the goddamned dog, we'd look like
a conspiracy of LIARS and DOG abusers if
CHIN CHUCK DID mean SLAP the dog.

"I don't see why anyone would want to choke or
beat a dog, or how any trainer could possibly get
a good working dog by making them unhapper,
fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying frosty dahl.

DOES THAT SOUND LIKE THE TRUTH?

> just $17.95 at Amazon.com.

> (Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
> few regulars here who are either ill-
> tempered, ill-mannered, or just plain ill.)
> --Marshall

Or HOWE about HOWER just plain CRUEL
STUPID and ABUSIVE DOG ABUSERS,
professor SCRUFF SHAKE?

amy lying frosty dahl continues:

"On the other extreme, the really hard dogs
we have trained require much more
frequent and heavy application of pressure
(PAIN j.h.) to get the job done,

This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome

Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher,
less tractable dogs may require you to
progress to striking them more sharply"

BUT NOBODY DOES THAT HERE...

"Try pinching the ear between the metal
casing and the collar, even the buckle on
the collar. Persist! Eventually, the dog will
give in but will squeal, thrash around, and
direct their efforts to escaping the ear pinch"

OR ATTACKING HIS ABUSER.

"You can press the dog's ear with a
shotshell instead of your thumb even
get a studded collar and pinch the ear
against that Make the dog's need to stop
the pinching so urgent that resisting your
will fades in importance.

CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever
Ready Right Hand, As it catches on, try
using the stick and no ear pinch.

When the dog is digging out to beat the
stick and seems totally reliable without
any ear pinch, you are finished

This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome"

If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly
under the chin, say "No! Hold!"

(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps
because the ear is getting tender, or the
dog has decided it isn't worth it)" lying
frosty dahl.

"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.

From: Marshall Dermer (dermer@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
In article <38CC0C43.94E2DDD1@earthlink.net>
r*z@earthlink.net writes:

>> -snip headers etc.

>> Yes. you're right, I really should find
>> the book.. they don't have these books
>> in the local pet stores I frequent, where
>> do you find Koehler?

> I got a nice large print copy from
> Amazon.com

>Richard

Please try Powell's Books in Portland
Oregon. Their URL is:

http://www.powells.com/

Unlike Amazon.com, Powell's keeps both
new and used books on its shelves. You
can order books via e-email.

Koehler Method Of Dog
Training
by Koehler, W R
Published by HOWELL BOOK
HOUSE (0876056575,

========================================================

Here's some quotes and some methods right outta your
koehler book professor "SCRUFF SHAKE and scream
"NO!" into its face for 5 seconds:"

"The Koehler Method of Dog Training (1962). New York:
Howell Book Book House(p. 52-53)."

Hanging

"First, the trainer makes certain that the collar
and leash are more than adequate for any jerk
or strain that the dog's most frantic actions could
cause. Then he starts to work the dog deliberately
and fairly to the point where the dog makes his grab.

Before the teeth have reached their target,
the dog, weight permitting, is jerked from
the ground.

As in coping with some of the afore-mentioned
problems the dog is suspended in mid-air.

However, to let the biting dog recover
his footing while he still had the strength
to renew the attack would be cruelty.

The only justifiable course is to hold him
suspended until he has neither the strength
nor inclination to renew the fight.

When finally it is obvious that he is
physically incapable of expressing his
resentment and is lowered to the ground,
he will probably stagger loop-legged for a
few steps, vomit once or twice, and roll
over on his side.

The sight of a dog lying, thick-tongued,
on his side, is not pleasant, but do not
let it alarm you

THE REAL "HOOD"

"If your dog is a real "hood" who would
regard the foregoing types of protest as
"kid stuff" and would express his
resentment of your efforts by biting,
your problem is difficult -- and pressing.

"Professional trainers often get these
extreme problems. Nearly always the
"protest biter" is the handiwork of a
person who, by avoiding situations that
the dog might resent, has nurtured the
seeds of rebellion and then cultivated
the resultant growth with under correction.

When these people reap their inevitable
and oftentimes painful harvest, they are
ready to avail themselves of "the cruel
trainer" whose advice they may have
once rejected because it was incompatible
with the sugary droolings of mealy-
mouthed columnists, breed-ring biddies,
and dog psychologists who, by the
broken skins and broken hearts their
misinformation causes, can be proven guilty
of the greatest act of cruelty to animals
since the dawn of time.

"With more genuine compassion for the
biting dog than would ever be demonstrated
by those who are "too kind" to make a
correction and certainly with more disregard
for his safety, the professional trainer
morally feels obligated to perform a "major
operation."

"Since we are presently concerned with
the dog that bites in resentment of the
demands of training, we will set our
example in that situation. (In a later
chapter we will deal with the with the
much easier problem of the dog that
bites someone other than his master."

Are we havin FUN yet?

Got a lite, professor SCRUFF SHAKE?

The Puppy Wizard. <} : ~ ) >


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