Dog Discussion: Jerry's Dog Training Manual "I Am Willing To Take Jerry's Theory On How Dogs Think As A Likely One, Simply Because The Dog Training Methodology He Describes (Based On His Suppositions) Works So Well, " Lisa B.

Jerry's Dog Training Manual "I Am Willing To Take Jerry's Theory On How Dogs Think As A Likely One, Simply Because The Dog Training Methodology He Describes (Based On His Suppositions) Works So Well, " Lisa B.
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Y*@InBox.Com
2005-05-18 01:14:22 EST
Jerry's Dog Training Manual

"I Am Willing To Take Jerry's Theory On How Dogs Think
As A Likely One, Simply Because The Dog Training Methodology
He Describes (Based On His Suppositions) Works So Well," Lisa B.


From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-10 13:34:38 PST

In article <HRI27.3908$187.184...@news-re=ADp.ab.videon.ca> "Jenn"
d=2...@try.it> writes:

> Hi Lynn,

> I used to have a barking problem with my
> German Shepherd Dog a couple of years ago.
> I tried several things recommended to me by
> different trainers, and nothing was working.

> When I read that section of Jerry's Manual,
> I thought the same way you did.

> "What???? PRAISE her for barking?" It sounded
> counterproductive, but I had tried everything else
> I'd heard so I thought I'd try it too.

> Next time she went nuts at a person walking by
> outside, I told her, "Good job! Good girl! You are
> such a good protector!" And instead of continuing
> the barking, she came to me for a belly rub! She
> will still bark (she's a guard dog, that's her job),
> but after one bark, she knows she's done her job
> to warn me by my praise, and she stops.
> Jenn,


Could you be so kind as to post here the
section from Jerry's manual where he
writes that you should JUST praise the
dog when it barks?????????

As I recall, I thought he first advocates
distracting the dog from barking, with
keys or the soft sound of pennies in a
can, before praising.

Perhaps you can tutor me regarding
Jerry's system.

Thanks in advance!

--Marshall Dermer

PS: I don't read Jerry's posts but I look
forward to your post.


From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Clicker training "stay"
Date: 2001-06-21 20:25:38 PST
In article <iqtY6.5456$rA2.1119...@news-r=ADep.ab.videon.ca> "Jenn"
<*.@try.it> writes:

> Hi, DogStar716, sorry you feel this way about
> me. I hope I can change your mind in the future,
> as I love reading your posts, and value (and
> have used) some of your advice.

BWWWWWEEEJAJAJAJAJAJAAAAA!!!

> As for my post to Jer, I am just attempting
> to get a plain answer about something instead
> of a trash- fest. I just want to know if it can be
> done.

> Jenn Standring

I'm not Jerry but sure you could use a clicker to
distract a dog but that is not the purpose of a clicker.

You can also use a teaspoon to cut steak but that
is not the purpose of teaspoon!


--Marshall

Hi Marshall,

I'll do my best to answer you... please bear with me, ok? :-)

Marshall Dermer wrote:
> In article <3B4B013F.914E0...@hotmail.com=AD>
> 2tails <wagginta...@hotmail.com> writes:

> <snip Dave's response>
>
> > Not to mention, the manual has a lot regarding how dogs
> > think, which can't be explained just by a short description
> > of "what to do." The psychology behind the method is
> > needed so that the person reading it will be able to figure
> > out their dogs' problems by themselves.

> > Problems, as in "why is my dog doing 'X,'" and figuring
> > out ways to address it, if necessary.

> >regards,
> >Lisa

> Dear Lisa,

> How would you know if Jerry's analysis
> of "how dog's think" is correct?

> That is, if thinking is some invisible process inside of a
> dog's head how would we know if Jerry or anyone is correct?

Of course, it isn't necessary at all to know how dogs think,
or even if they *do* think. I believe that they do, but of
course I can't prove it, and neither can Jerry.

The heart of the matter is, the discussion in the manual
regarding "how dogs think" is part of a wholistic approach to
dog training.


It helps to comprehend the reasoning behind the
methodology. The methodology works quickly
and easily, therefore lending credence (as far as
I'm concerned) to his theory of how dogs think.


It's the same sort of thing regarding theories of whether the
earth revolves around the sun, or contrariwise. Is it possible
to send a rocket to the moon, based on the assumption
that the sun revolves around the earth?


The answer is, of course, yes, though it would most likely
be enormously complicated. The better solution is to begin
with the theorythattheearthrevolvesarou=ADndthesun.


In other words, the simplest answer or description is the
best, even though it may not be empirically provable.


And so, I am willing to take Jerry's theory on how dogs
think as a likely one, simply because the dog training
methodology he describes (based on his suppositions)
works so well.


I hope this helps you to understand from which perspective
I say the things that I do about Jerry's method and manual.


regards,
Lisa


"If I Knew It Would Be That Easy, I Would Have
Done This A Long Time Ago Saving Myself 5 Years
Of Dealing With A Bouncy, Over Excited Dog!" Jenn.


Hello Jenn,

"brijen" <bri...@vennercnospams.com> wrote in message
news:397cfaa3_1@news.oanet.com...

> Hello Jerry,
> I just wanted to let you know that I am
> trying this right now.


Good.

> I am the woman who wrote to you a while
> ago about trying to walk my dog without the
> pinch collar.

I recall.

> She also goes APE when I grab the leash.
> We have been doing this technique you
> recommend for about a half an hour now
> and the results are already fantastic, as
> well as amusing!

Yeah, dog training should always be more
fun than work.

> At first, we went out and I stood there,
> and Anya kept trying to head out to the
> sidewalk. When I didn't follow, she came
> and sat beside me at heel! (Thanks to
> your help!) She'd NEVER done that before.


It's the same principle as in the Hot And
Cold Exercise.

> I rewarded that with a few steps of a walk,
> but we came in after about 30 seconds. She
> stopped and looked at me as if she were
> thinking, "What? But we just got out here!"
>
> The second and third times, she was even
> MORE eager when she saw the leash, and
> I got the same look when I turned around
> to go back in. The fourth time, she just
> bounced a bit as she walked to the door
> with me, and sat nicely to wait until I hooked
> up the leash, and this last time, I HAD
> TO CALL HER TO ME!!!!!!!!!!


Fine. That's because dogs learn on the basis of
four repetitions. That's not to say they can't learn
some things faster, but for breaking habits, it
usually happens the fourth time we repeat a lesson.

Then we need to repeat the lesson at three more
locations our time in each to generalize the idea.
Let's say your dog gets excited when you take her
lead and go to the front door. She would probably
do the same at the back door, but to not such a degree.


Likewise for any other door.


It would behoove you to repeat the exercise with
several other doors and it would be easiest to
start with a door that had less excitement involved
with it.



> If I knew it would be that easy, I would have
> done this a long time ago saving myself 5
> years of dealing with a bouncy, over excited dog!


The non force methods work fast and easy
because we are not challenging the dog or
calling our attention to their behavior problems.


> I have to tell you how the walk is going though.
> I have a lot of problems there, but it is all ME.
> I have been so conditioned to "correct" her,
> that I still find myself yanking on her collar.


Yes, those habits are hard to break. It's easier for
me to train a person who has no experience at all
because they have no bad habits of pulling and
forcing control.


> I feel so awful! We have only been working
> in the yard without distractions, because I
> honestly don't know what will happen if she
> sees another dog and I won't have the pinch
> collar to keep her from dragging me over for
> a fight.


You know that working the dog in the back
yard is not preferable, because that causes
them some anxiety because it's their free area.
But with your dog and with the difficulty he is
to handle, I don't see any reason you shouldn't
do the Family Leadership Exercise and the come
command several times out there, and then you'll
have the control to do it in a more neutral area.


> The upside is, when I take the leash off it's
> hook and don't take the pinch collar, her
> excitement to go for a walk is NO LONGER
> combined with the intense fear I used to see
> in her eyes at the sight of the pinch!


Our group likes to think that is EXCITEMENT and
eagerness to work. It is sheer terror. The pinch
collar works by overriding the opposition reflex
through fear and that cause tremendous stress
and anxiety that must be released through anxiety
relief mechanisms like barking, digging, whining,
chewing, self mutilation and aggression.


> That does it for me. I can't believe I instilled
> fear in my beautiful dog just for the sake that
> I didn't know how to train. Well, I still don't
> know how, but I'm learning!


That's where I was three dozen years ago. I was
ready to just quit. I wasn't going to sour any more
dogs to make them work.


> Thanks for your help. Please send more
> suggestions if you saw something I could
> be doing differently!

> Jenn & Anya



I was thinking about your difficulties with
your dog. Just getting the Hot And Cold
Exercise and the Family Leadership Exercise
and the come command installed will solve
most of your difficulty with him.

I presume you've got msn messenger. We
can speak over that if you are set up for it,
and I can demonstrate the timing and tone
and tempo for using sound distractions
and praise, or we could speak on the phone.


The most important thing to remember is to
pick up and handle the lead in a relaxed manner,
no white knuckles, keep your elbow relaxed and
your arm down at your side with the length of the
lead breaking just below the knee.


Let me know if you need further help.


Jerry.


>> > "James Roberts" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>> > news:3C637444.20DD6735@privacy.net...
>> > > I have downloaded and have read Jerry's Wit's End
>> > > document.
>
>> > > Ignoring what you think of his participation, what
>> > > is your assessment of the merits of his techniques?


>> Paul B <pand...@zfree.co.nz> wrote in message
news:3c638e36@clear.net.nz...


>> > Hello James,
>> > I have used his recommended techniques and
>> > ideas with great success, and over the period
>> > I've used these methods the more I've become
>> > to understand and appreciate how his methods
>> > work and how effective they can be if carried out
>> > correctly.
>
>> > His manual isn't conventional and as such gets
>> > critisized and misunderstood. The basic concept
>> > is to allow the dog to choose whatever behaviour
>> > it wants for any situation but to distract (and
>> > immediately praise ) it from behaviours we deem
>> > undesirable, because of the correctly timed
>> > distractions repeated usually about 4 times (in
>> > each location) the dog decides of it own accord
>> > that this behaviour is undesriable and therefore
>> > pursues something else, if that behaviour is also
>> > inappropriate to us then we carry on distracting,
>> > very soon the dog finds a behaviour that is mutually
>> > acceptable. The benefits of this type of approach
>> > are numerous, firstly we aren't challenging the dog
>> > so there is no conflict so the dog does't develop any
>> > possible negativity to us, the dog decides of it own
>> > free will that a behaviour is unsatisfying so chooses
>> > to cease it (in other words even if we are gone the
>> > dog won't have any desire to pursue that behaviour
>> > i.e. bin raiding etc).
>
>> > I would recommend his manual.
>> > Paul


From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST



>Paul B wrote:
>> While the concept of shake cans is not new,
>> I haven't read any other advice that says to
>> praise immediately regardless of what the dog
>> does next (the common advice is to praise once
>> the dog is doing a desired behaviour or at least
>> stopped the unwanted behaviour), this is unique
>> to Jerry (and Marilyn) and from my own
>> experiences is an important part of the process.


And how do we know this aspect of his
advice is right?

Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.


His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.


--Marshall


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


"Marshall Dermer" <der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu>
wrote in message news:9ihtee$7ib$1@uwm.edu...




From: Paul B (NOSPAMpand...@zfree.co.nz)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 00:13:28 PST

Hello Marshall,


The way I view it from my observation of how
my dogs react is that the distraction interrupts
the dogs thought, not for good or bad, just
interrupts, the dog is therefore distracted for
a second and then will either continue the
behaviour or do something else.


The praise reassures the dog that the sound
distraction is not a threat or punishment,
however if everytime the dog resumes a
particular behaviour it's distracted immediately
(and praised immediately for reassurance) then
it quickly decides this behaviour is not fulfilling
and it ceases.


A dog will offer another behaviour in it's place
and if that is acceptable to us then we let it be
otherwise the distraction continues until a suitable
alternate behaviour is offered.


One example, Sam used to jump up on me
when I arrived home, I would shake can to
distract him right at the moment he was
about to jump up, after about 4 repetitions
he tried sitting and offering me his paw, of
course this was fine so I let it be.


While the concept of shake cans is not new,
I haven't read any other advice that says to
praise immediately regardless of what the
dog does next (the common advice is to
praise once the dog is doing a desired
behaviour or at least stopped the unwanted
behaviour), this is unique to Jerry (and Marilyn)
and from my own experiences is an important
part of the process.



> Thanks Paul! He does recommend praising
> a dog for barking, but he appears to recognize
> that this may not work and so distraction
> is recommended as a back up procedure:


"Estel J. Hines" <ejhi...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:w86dna9lBfNZgbTdRVn-hA@comcast.com...


>>> Until i read the Jerry method of Bark
>>> reduction, it went something like this
>>> with our 11 month old puppy "Yoshi"
>>> Yoshi: Bark, bark,
>>> us: HUSH Youshi
>>> Yoshi Bark, bark......................
>>> us: Hush Youshi
>>> Yoshi BARK, BARK, BARK, ..............................=AD... >
>>> it stopped when Yoshi got tired barking
>>> We decided to try the Jerry method
>>> :Yoshi: BARK, BARK
>>> US: GOOD Yoshi, Good Boy, who is it?
>>> Yoshi Bark, Bark
>>> US: It's ok, good boy Yoshi, We know them.
>>> Yosh without fail, now stops after we say that.
>>> I must say, it is so much more fun, when we
>>> can praise him, to deal with things like this.
>>> Thanks Jerry
>>> ps: We are just starting to go thru the Jerry
>>> Papers, and learn how to live with our son
>>> "Yoshi", whom we love very much. --
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Estel J. Hines



=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


> There really is NOTHING new about
> the advice above!


Nuthin EXXXCEPT HOWE IT'S DONE.

"Dan Moore" <mooret...@worldnet.att.net>


wrote in message
news:fS2Lc.114567$OB3.42357@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.
.=2E



> Tracy,


> What worked for me, in just one storm,
> was to praise the dog after each clap
> of thunder, telling him he's a Good Dog!


> This is an almost 13 year old Doberman, BTW.


> The next time it thundered, he did not even react at
> all--you could not tell it was the same dog as before.


> There was more thunder just the other day, and same
> thing, nada, nothing, zilch, no cowering, whimpering,
> trying to hide at all, it was that simple.


> I got this idea from Jerry Howe, who might seem
> to be a "wild and crazy" character, but his non-
> abusive way of handling dogs WORKS.


> Wonderfully.


> Praise.


> It's that simple.


> Juanita



"Estel J. Hines" <ejhi...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:w86dna9lBfNZgbTdRVn-hA@comcast.com...


> Until i read the Jerry method of Bark reductioon,
> it went something like this with our 11 month old
> puppy "Yoshi"


> Yoshi: Bark, bark,


> us: HUSH Youshi


> Yoshi Bark, bark......................


> us: Hush Youshi


> Yoshi BARK, BARK, BARK, ..............................=AD...i
> it stopped when Yoshi got tired barking


> We decided to try the Jerry method


> :Yoshi: BARK, BARK


> US: GOOD Yoshi, Good Boy, who is it?


> Yoshi Bark, Bark
> US: It's ok, good boy Yoshi, We know them


> Yosh without fail, now stops after we say that


> I must say, it is so much more fun, when we
> can praise him, to deal with things like this


> Thanks Jerry


> ps: We are just starting to go thru the Jerry
> Papers, and learn how to live with our son
> "Yoshi", whom we love very much.
> --
> Best Regards,


> Estel J. Hines



=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

HOWEDY Brandy,



"Brandy Kurtz" <KraftyKur...@wmconnect.com> wrote in message


news:2f66e35d.0407302331.1f18b8c6@posting.google.com...

> KraftyKur...@wmconnect.com (Brandy Kurtz) wrote in message


<news:2f66e35d.0407262049.7b3a7b51@posting.google.com>...


> > Hello everyone! We have a 2 1/2 year old male


> Well I just printed out the Amazing Puppy Wizard info,
> so I haven't actually started to train yet.


> Today a salesman knocked on the door, and Pokey
> was going balisstic. I calmly go to the window to see
> who it is, and off-handly say Good Boy, It's a stranger,
> Good Boy. Pokey shut right up, gave me a quizical
> look, and came and sat beside my feet! OMG, I could
> not believe it!


> I was totally floored, as this has been his
> behavior since a pup. Just wanted to update,
> and Pokey and I are hitting the sack...;)



Well THAT IS encouraging, AIN'T IT.


> Brandy


"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This (Destructive Separation
Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite A Few
Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME
The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer, 33
Years Experience.

Date: 5/22/03 11:24:35 PM Eastern
Daylight Time
From: p...@cfl.rr.com
To: Witsend...@aol.com


Well, let me tell you, your Wits' End
Dog Training Method works.


My dog, Dasie, Loves to chase chameleons
around the barbecue on the patio. I
used this system on four different occasions.


When she went out today, she looked
everywhere else but the barbecue.
Amazing, just amazing.


I will write to Amanda about the video.


I am really excited to learn more, and
understand. Maybe just a little reassurance
that I am going about it the right way.


Thanks again
Paul


From: Chris Williams (k9ap...@webtv.net)
Subject: Re: Thank you Jerry Howe
Date: 2002-03-26 08:16:19 PST


Engrossing account, Anthony. Our best to Angel
and your family.


A friend, who socializes the kittens I've taken
from a feral cat colony, is using the DDR.


She reports far fewer panic problems than
she's had before.


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D



Chris Williams writes:


"The FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method manual
I do find valuable. Much of it I recognize as what
I've always done without thinking of it as "training".
New stuff, I've used. His anchoring technique erased
the last of Mac's fireworks trauma,"

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


----- Original Message -----
From: Hoku Beltz
To: The Puppy Wizard
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:12 PM
Subject: Mahalo

Aloha Jerry,


Just wanted to let you know that the surrogate toy
technique is working wonders. I have not had a
shredded sheet for over a week now. It is nice
to be able to leave the bed made and come home
to a made bed.


Your program is awesome, but you already
know that. Keep up the good work!


Hoku


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


Dave Cohen <coh...@total.net writes:
Re: Barking Deterrants Needed...


Hi. Please understand that I do not know Jerry
and have spoken with him briefly once by email.


I have no stake or interest in the success of his
business. I simply want to thank him publicly for
one of his tips, with regards to separation anxiety.


I thought it seemed far fetched to praise a stuffed
animal and then say good bye to my own dog, but
I am usually a very open minded person, so I tried it.


Well, lo and behold- the damn trick worked!


I think Jerry has some intriguing techniques, and
personally I think everyone who constantly criticizes
him is not understanding his logic.


Thank you Jerry!


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


"Greg M. Silverman"
<*.@no.umn.edu<mailto:g=ADmsNOS...@no.umn.edu>>
wrote in message


Hey, Mr. Wizard, or Alchemist or whatever
your alias of the day is,


I have to say that our dog heels much better than
she did. This is after reading and implementing the
bit in your "Wits End" treatise. And she's a royal
nutter (but then again, aren't they all?).


Cheers! Greg


----- Original Message -----


From: <n> To: "Jerry Howe"
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: Damned Family Leadership Exercise -
Re: Am I expecting to much


Hi Jerry,


When I talked to you on the phone to order to machine
for daughter's new pup, I told you that I had an older
Chessie. I rescued him at 9 years old and have had him
for 3 years.


It's funny, but I thought I'd try some of your book training
with him.


Where I used to say "come" and then say "good boy"
when he obeyed, I have reversed it with a "good boy" first.
It really does work. He was very confused at first,
wondering what he had done to get the praise.
But it really gets the attention and distracts him from
whatever he may have going through his brain when
he hears it.


Dogs are funny, but people are too. Can't wait to get
the Doggy do Right, etc.


Thanks, N


------------------------------=AD------


"Ned" <komod...@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:fQIg9.25850$561.25365@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...


> Hi !
> Our black lab girl is 3 months old (she will be 4 months
> on the 30th).


> When we first brought her home she had a bad habit
> of trying to nip our faces (including my 3 year old twins)
> during playtime. It drove everyone in the house nuts
> and it brought my little girls to tears as you can imagine.


> We tried saying no, and that would just get her even
> more excited, so we would yell no and that would just
> get her "scared" but still excited. In short it just wasn't
> working.


> So we finally did what Jerry has suggested to you.
> We used a sound do distract her and we would
> immediately praise her.


> I have to say that it worked great. BUT she then
> moved on to nipping at the feet LOL silly little thing.


> So again, we tried no, and then louder no, but again
> it didn't work so we went for the distraction and praise.
> I must say that she is doing great!


> I hope that helps.
> Edyta aka Ned


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 9:06 AM


Hello.


I never posted here (or anywhere) before.
I never trained or owned a dog before this
year.


I downloaded the Wit's End, read it, corresponded
with Mr. Howe and trained my dog to come and to
stop barking in a weekend.


Our dog, Jake, had been treated with kindness the
whole time we had him, about 10 months, but his
earlier life is unknown.


I worked on the hot-cold exercise for about 30
minutes when he suddenly "got it". After that
he came to me every time with no hesitation.


I used the cans filled with pennies to teach him
not to bark. If he now starts to bark, I go to the
door or window, say "Good Boy, its' alright" and
he usually calms down right away.


A couple of times I had to get the cans
out again to reinforce the behavior.


We feel a strong bond with this animal
and he is very eager to accept our love.


So with all the vitriolic spewing going on,
I have to believe Mr. Howe is right.


His method worked for us.


I don't know if it would have been quite
as effective if we had tried another method first.


Florence
------------------------------=AD------


----- Original Message -----
From: "nicole" <To: "Jerald D. Howe">
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2003 10:46 AM
Subject: Off to a good start!


Hi Jerald, Just wanted to tell you we read
your manual and have started working with
the dogs...


"Chloe" (the one we adopted--a. k. a.
"The Destroyer") has already shown
great improvement! (In Just 1 DAY!)


She responds even better than our other
(better-behaved) dog "Poe".


We tried out the surrogate toy technique, and
not a thing was touched when we got back!


We were both surprised because Chloe isn't
that interested in toys and was still very uptight
about us reaching for the door... anyway, it
seemed to work.


We both work all day today so we'll see
how that goes... Regardless, we will be
cool as cukes when we get home! ;)


I'm just so thankful we might have a chance
to get through to her! We're very excited about
her progress thus far...


Thank You!


Nicole, Michael, Poe and especially Chloe!


______________________________=AD____


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff & Di"
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2004 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: help, with the At Wits End training manual


HOWEDY Diana,


> Hi Jerry,


> Thanks very much for the prompt reply.
> I'm just writing to let you know that I've
> had some wonderful progress with Molly.


Of curse!


> I took her up to the school in the car when
> I was picking up my daughter. My husband
> went to get our daughter while I stayed in
> the car with Molly. It was a quick trip so I
> wasn't expecting any car sickness, but I
> thought it would be a great opportunity to
> work on her fear of people approaching the
> car.


> When we pulled up, there were already a lot
> of people and kids milling around, and as I
> haven't explained the AWETM to my husband
> of course he was yelling at Molly to shut up
> and sit down.


That'll increase anxiHOWESNESS.


> As you can imagine this didn't help.


> Once he was gone I simply told Molly she
> was good, she growled a few times at people
> and I said "thanks Molly I see them too, they're
> ok" then I asked her to find her ball which was
> in the back.


I wouldn't recommend offering a physical
distraction for two reasons. 1) she's likely
to become dependent on putting something
in her MHOWETH when she's stressed and
2) it may disavail you of successive training
opportunities necessary to extinguish the behavior.


> She loves her ball so was keen to do that and
> didn't notice what was by now a big crowd of
> parents and kids passing the car.


See, we really do want her to notice, so
we can briefly and variably distract and
praise to extinguish the behavior.


> I kept up with the "good girl" and "where's
> your ball" soon she was sitting watching
> the people walk past and offering them
> her ball to throw, not that they noticed her.


Well, it worked well for you this time. Don't
use the ball again the next time, just follow
the praise techniques.


> But it was lovely to see her so relaxed.


INDEEDY. That's the bottom line for successful
nearly instant training. That's why bribing and
withholding bribes fails, cause anxiety increases
as we withhold the reward to elicit the behavior.


> Just to add, I was sitting in the front and she
> was in the back of the wagon, so this was all
> verbal praise and distraction with no touching
> or patting.


Right. Physical contact distracts the dog from
thinking and processing the information.


> Jerry it is so hard not to yell at the dog when
> you are frustrated and want it to behave immediately,


Yeah. It only takes a few minutes to appupriately
extinguish any behavior, but you've got to know HOWE.


> but as you have said it really gets you
> nowhere in the long run.


"Reinforcement NEVER ends."


That's HOWE COME when we train dogs using
non physical methods the behavior is not dependent
on HOWER ability to reinforce manage supervise
bribe and avoid... IOW, we've HOWEtwitted the
cunning of the domestic puppy dog by tempting
the dog to do the undesirable behavior and distracting
and praising before the thought is fulfilled till
it's no longer thought of as a useful behavior.


> I would never of had these great results
> with Molly without your help, as we really
> were stuck in the "yelling at the dog" rut.


Just wait till you apply my methods to your kids.
My methods have rehabilitated severe hyperactive
kids as fast and permanent as the dogs I've heelped.


> I have to work on getting my husband to read
> your manual now, by the way an At Wits End
> Husband Training Manual would be helpful too,
> haha.


Not a chance in heel. If Mrs. Puppy Wizard
discovered it I'd be wearin an apron and workin
insetead of settin right here, stark ravin nekkid,
wearin nuthin but these gawd awful paper slippers.


> Thankyou so much for providing this info for free.


My pleasure. Consider it my vindictive nature...


> I was looking at dog training books in the shops
> today and they are so expensive !! (around $30
> to $40 in Australia) Not that I need them now, but
> I like to browse the dog and pet sections from
> time to time.


Makes The Amazing Puppy Wizard grind HIS teeth...


> You might like think about publishing a book
> one day, I think it would be received very well
> by the general public and reach those without
> internet access.


I probably should do sumpthin. The dog lovers
on the news groups ain't interested in training
their dogs, they seem to enjoy discussing behavior
problems and the training tools they used to cause
them.


> I was going to copy my last letter onto the news
> groups but see that you have already done so.


Yeah, but a lot of folks don't like to read my posts
cause HOWER dog lovers like to tell foks they're
forgeries.


> Feel free to quote this letter too if it helps.


Thank you, but I really wish you'll repost them
cause it'll be more believable coming from you.


These folks think it should take weeks and
months to rehabiliatate behavior problems.
They think they're successful if they've
rehabilitated an aggresson problem after a
year or longer working at it.


> It's unfortunate that the newsgroups are cluttered
> with rubbish, as It would be nice to discuss dogs
>from time to time with other dog lovers.


That ain't gonna happen cause decent folks
don't post there. Every WON is interested
in saving dogs lives by hurting them as a last
resort when forcing avoiding and bribing didn't work.


> cheers,


LikeWIZE.


> Dianna


Yours, Jerry.


----- Original Message -----
From: "LEE " <>
To: <ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net>
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 6:11 AM
Subject: Wits end training in England


HOWEDY Lee,


> Hi,
> I have stumbled across your training method on the internet


EXCELLENT!


Nuthin happens by accident or coincidence.


> and I am pleased to say, one part of it has worked
> already after only 3 days of training.


Wonderful! Please follow the method entirely and
PRECISELY. It NEVER FAILS, but it's very unforgiving
of mistakes and doesn't play well with other methods.


> I own two boxers, one of which is a rescue dog who
> sufferred from 'seperation anxiety'


SA usually takes no more than WON day or two, to break.


> and would constantly chew his bedding in his crate
> when in the house alone. After only 2 sessions of
> praising his favourite nylon bone and leaving it in
> front of the crate before leaving, the behaviour is gone!
> Lee.


HOWETSTANDING!


From: Mike (m.bidd...@ns.sympatico.ca)
Subject: Re: Info. on the puppy wizard?
Date: 2004-07-15 12:28:54 PST


Alan,


The puppy wizard calls it as he sees it.


He isn't PC and that pisses people off.


The fact is that I have used his FREE
methods and they DO in fact work.


What a crock of shit relating his methods
to a science experiment.


Yes, the man is a cross posting menace
and has proly smoked too many batts in
his day but he has the canine species best
interest at heart and doesn't profit from his
point of view.


He is a selfless advocate for dogs and
that's enough for me to respect the man
no matter how controversial he gets.


Oh, and did I mention his methods work, ya nuff said.


Mike


From: Mike (m.bidd...@ns.sympatico.ca)
Subject: Re: Info. on the puppy wizard?
Date: 2004-07-18 14:27:02 PST


> > Oh, and did I mention his methods work, ya nuff said.


> > Mike


> Ok Mike which part worked for you?


It helped clear problems from my dogs in the
field using the can penny distraction technique.
Works like a charm. My dogs get distracted easy
from their jobs ie, retrieving or training to find lost
people, oh did I mention that I am a Search and
Rescue Team Leader.


Sorry that slipped my mind.


I have read volumes of training books and don't
know where people get that Jerry copied others
work as I have NEVER come across his methods
before. I would like to see proof.


Just like Jerry outlined I eliminated problems one
at at time as they arose. I used to try and train to
the way I wanted them but this is backward, you
train out the problems leaving what you want left
over.


Funny part is the second dog who had the same
problems as the other didn't need correcting for
some of his habits after I cleared it from the first
dog. Seemed he learned through osmosis.


Nice side benefit there.


It nearly came to giving them up to a 3rd party
trainer as they were not performing well. The
VAST majority of working dog trainers are
agressive in their actions with the dogs.


I tried it and it didn't work and guess what?
I was at my "Whits End" then someone I
knew turned me onto Jerry and the rest is history.


I referred friends and families to Jerry's manual
and all have had great results. Starting puppies
out on the distraction technique is especially
good because they never develop the habit.


I had my sisters dog healing, sitting and down
stay reliably at 8-9 weeks.


The first night home following Jerrys advice
we ditched the crate and put the pup on the
floor beside the bed and after 2 whimpers
NOT A SOUND OUT OF THAT DOG FOR
6 HRS! first night, that has never happened
in all my days.


Sorry, the man understands dogs its that simple.


Mike


The Puppy Wizard sez:


"A dog is a dog as a child is a child. They only
respond in PREDICTABLE NORMAL NATURAL
INNATE INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE ways to
situations and circumstances of their environment
which we create for them.


ALL BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS ARE CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.
Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture."
We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions
And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.


In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.


http://tinyurl.com/2v9oh


Here's professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM research
at UofWI, marshall "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM
"NO!" into ITS face for five seconds and lock IT in a
box for ten minutes contemplation," dermer:


"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.


First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.


How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.


**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************


When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).


"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.


BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!


That's INSANE. Ain't it.


The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{}TPW ; ~ } >


P=2ES. Contacting Dr. P:


Please note that due to the large number of
requests I receive, I can no longer give free,
personal advice on problems related to dog
training and behavior.


In order for me to give such advice we would
have to "talk" about the problem at length.


That is, I would need detailed information about
the dog, it's environment and routine, the problem,
and the situation in which the problem occurs.


Thus, this type of consultation takes time which
I cannot afford to give away for free.


If you wish such advice, please see the information
I have provided about my K9 Behavioral Consulting
practice. Another alternative to obtaining personal
advice is to participate in e-mail, chat room, &
newsgroup discussions.


P=2EP.S. BWEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!


YOU'RE FRAUDS, drs p. and dermer!


Either DEFEND your LIES, ABUSE And
Degrees or get the heel HOWETA THIS
BUSINESS.


"If you talk with the animals, they will talk with you
and you will know each other.
If you do not talk to them, you will not know them,
and what you do not know you will fear.


What one fears, one destroys."
Chief Dan George


"If you've got them by the balls their hearts
and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.


The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{}TPW ; ~ } >


"(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-
tempered, ill-mannered, or just plain ill.),"
--Marshall


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
> To: "The Puppy Wizard"
> <ThePuppyWiz...@earthlink.net> Sent: Friday, July
> 23, 2004 2:53 PM Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard


> Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,


> I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
> and now must applaud your attempts to save
> animals from painful training procedures.


> You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent,
> who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts to
> alert the world to animal abuse.


> We are lucky to have you, and more people should
> come to their senses and support your valuable
> work.


> Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
> charity to fund your important work?


> Have you thought about holding a press conference
> so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
> and significant work?


> In closing, my only suggestion is that you
> try to keep your messages short for most
> readers may refuse to read a long message
> even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.


> I wish you well in your endeavors.


> --Marshall Dermer
> --Marshall Dermer
> Marshall Dermer/Associate Professor/
> Behavior Analysis Specialty/Department
> of Psychology/University of Wisconsin-
> Milwaukee/Milwaukee,WI 53201


> der...@uwm.edu http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
------------------------------=AD--------


All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer


"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.


"If you've got them by the balls their hearts
and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.


The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >


GOT MILK?


U*@yahoo.com
2005-05-18 02:17:27 EST
Hey assHOWE,

Why are you so incredibly desperate for attention? I'd expect this
behavior from a 13-year old, but you, at your age, have no excuse.

What are you trying to accomplish with your entirely childish crap?
Either do something real about "dog abusers" instead of badgering a few
dozen people in a newsgroup or shut the fuck up.


Y*@InBox.Com
2005-05-18 03:31:20 EST
HOWEDY pat you miserable lying dog abusin mental case,

unsurreality_2005@yahoo.com wrote:
> Hey assHOWE,
>
> Why are you so incredibly desperate for attention?

The Amazing Puppy Wizard has IDENTIFIED EXXXPOSED and
DISCREDITED all the EXXXPERTS in the behavior industry.

> I'd expect this behavior from a 13-year old,

In some cultures that when a boy becomes a man, pat.

> but you, at your age,

The Amazing Puppy Wizard is timeless, pat.

> have no excuse.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard relies on SUCCESS, not EXXXCUSES.

> What are you trying to accomplish with your entirely childish crap?

The Amazing Puppy Wizard intends to research human behavior, pat.

> Either do something real about "dog abusers"

We're doin that RIGHT NHOWE, pat.

> instead of badgering a few dozen people in a newsgroup

You mean the EXXXPERTS like professor SCRUFF SHAKE dermer and
his punk thug coward partner dr. mark plonsky of UofWI and
the rest of the university behaviorsists who likeWIZE HURT
INTIMIDATE and MURDER dogs, punks like captain arthur haggerty
his little girl babbette and his graduate students booby maida
and uncle matty margolis the lying theives, Master Of Deception
blankman and lying frosty dahl and lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn
and janet boss and leah roberts and big b and tommy sorenson
aka lyingdogDUMMY aka jack morrison and the rest of these punk
thug coward mental cases.

> or shut the fuck up.

You'll ENJOY THIS, pat:

From: YourWorstFreakinNightmare@InBox.Com
Date: 17 May 2005 15:51:45 -0700

Subject: Re: New lab puppy - Biting question

HOWEDY jim,

Jim wrote:
> Hi

> I have recently adopted a labrador puppy.

You've been readin HOWER forums for a couple months NHOWE:

Local: Sat,Apr 23 2005 1:39 am
Subject: Re: Tarheel Canine

HERE'S EVERY THING YOU GOTTA KNOW
abHOWET HOWE to pupperly handle and train
your dogs, children and SP-HOWESES:

Study my manual carefully and follow all the
instructions and exercises precisely and you'll
get 100% TOTAL NON PHYSICAL CONTROL
NEARLY INSTANTLY:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?E­­183232FA

> The puppy came from friends of ours whose dog had 6 puppies
> (only 5 survived). Anyhow, we picked her up on Sunday (May 8)
> and they said at the time she was 4 weeks old.

Good.

> We took her to the vet this past Sat. and they said there's
> no way she's 4 weeks.

PERHAPS your vet is psychic?

> More like 5-6 weeks she said. We're trying to nail
> down the date, but let's just use 5-6 weeks old.

WHATEVER.

> So far she's an excellent dog.

THAT SO? You're writin to tell us your puppy is PERFECT?

> Only a few bathroom accidents in the house.

Dogs HOWEsbreak INSTINCTIVELY at four weeks of age.

> As soon as we take her outside, she goes.

SHAZZZAAAMMM?

> The only minor issue we're having is her biting.

You mean MHOWETHING. MHOWETHING is BONDING behavior, jack.

> Man does she love to bite.

THAT MEANS SHE REALLY REALLY LOVES YOU, jack.

> First couple of days weren't so bad, but now that she's
> getting used to us and the house,

Familiarity breeds CONTEMPT, jim.

> she's becoming more confident.

Well, you better stop THAT. Your dog will become ALPHALPHAL.

> And the biting has increased tenfold.

THAT'S BONDING ACTIVITY, jim.

> What's the best way to deal with this?

TELL HER SHE'S A GOOD DOG, jim. Tell her IN ADVANCE.
And NON PHYSICALLY BRIEFLY and ALTERNATELY DISTRACT
and PRAISE after she starts BONDING behaviors.

> Here's what we've tried or are currently trying:

DECENT PEOPLE DO NOT POST HERE abHOWETS, jim, as
YOU'VE SEEN, seein as you've been READIN HOWER forums.

> --Substitute a chew toy (this is the old standby,

Substituting REWARDS her BONDING behavior and teaches
her to MHOWETH you so she can get her REWARD, jim.

> but she sometimes refuses to chew the toy and wants
> to chew us instead)

THAT'S ON ACCHOWENT OF SHE LOVES YOU, jim.

> --Low growl, turned into a bark (this worked only for
> me and only a couple of times; she ignores it now)

Your dog thinks you're a IMBECILE, jim.

> --Ignoring her/Time out

THAT will INCREASE her EFFORTS to BOND, jim.

> (this is tough to do because if you walk away,
> she just bites your ankles;

SEE?

> so we have to stand on the steps [she can't
> climb them yet] and ignore her (back turned,
> no eye contact, wait a minute, return);

To REWARD her BONDING attempts, jim?

> if that doesn't work, she gets a "timeout".

You mean your lock IT in a box when IT wants to say "HOWEDY, jim"?

> I repeat the word timeout over and over

Dogs don't speak English, jim.

> and carry her to her bedroom (the laundry room).

THAT REWARDS HER BONDING EFFORTS, jim.

> Leave her there for a couple of minutes, then come collect her.

THAT'S INSANE, jim.

You should SCRUFF SHAKE and CHIN CHUCK IT, jim. The INSTRUCTIONS
are at the bottom for your edification, jim.

> --Shove fingers in mouth, press down.

That's HOWE sindy SADIST MOOREON and lying frosty dahl
and lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn PREFER, jim <{) ; ~ ) >

> This was the method recommended by the vet.

That so? Care to tell us who your VET is, jim?
The Amazing Puppy Wizard would like a consultation
with him and his staff and the local media, jim.

> (this worked well in the beginning,

You mean chokin your puppy for BONDING behavior, jim?

> but she seems to have built up a tolerance;

INDEED?

> now, she'll bite, get "gagged", come back and bite
> some, repeat; she'll do this like 8-10 times before
> she gives up)

Stupid dog, eh jim?

> --Flip over on back and stare/hover over her head

You should try humpin her leg like HOWE dogs in the wild do it...

> (only done once and she did not like this at all;

Naaah?

> wriggled like crazy trying to get up,

You think your dog didn't LIKE that, jim?

> cried;

Your dog is a DRAMA QUEEN, eh jim?

Try throwing IT to the GRHOWEND and grHOWEL
into ITS throat and bite IT on its ears.

LIKE THIS:

"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My Right Arm Over The Lab's
Shoulder, Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My Left Hand,
Rolled Her On Her Side, Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled
Into Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And Neatly Nipped Her
Ear," sionnach.

Sez on our FAQ'S pages at K9 Web you should knee
the dog in the chest, step on its toes, throw him
down by his ears and climb all over it like a raped
ape growling into his throat and bite IT on his ears,
or leash pop it on a pronged spiked pinch choke collar
or pop him in the snout with the heel of your palm.

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

> I wasn't sure if this was good or not

THAT'S HOWE COME DECENT PEOPLE DO NOT POST HERE
abHOWETS, AIN'T IT, jim <{) : ~ ( >

> (she looked quite panicky),

She's FAKIN IT, jim.

"BethF" <b...@NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.c­­om>
wrote in message news:v4r8kkfr257e1a@corp.supernews.com...
"Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatri...@adelphia.net>
wrote in message

Kyle, FWIW, i thought it was pretty funny,
and i often call my little dog the turd, because
he is one. Some folks think its HORRRIBLE i
would insult my dog like that so i guess its just a
matter of personality.

Kyle, the best way to teach him to stay away is to
step on him once. Seriously.

> so I haven't done it since the initial time)

NO PROBLEMO, jim:

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It. "mike duforth, author:
"CourteHOWES Canine."

PERHAPS you just need some puppy raisin tips, eh jim?:

"Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a
helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.
Tougher, less tractable dogs may require
you to progress to striking them more
sharply," lying frosty dahl, ethical breeder,
expert trainer.

CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever
Ready Right Hand, As it catches on, try
using the stick and no ear pinch.

"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.

"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."

Borrowed from: "Puppy Raising Tips" from
professional trainers, John and Amy Dahl.

"Around four months many puppies can withstand a
correction. Unfortunately this is the time they start
teething and if their mouth hurts, they may act
generally sensitive. If this is the case, be patient and
wait for all those baby teeth to fall out.

In training, retrievers often respond to physical correction
better than verbal correction. While "NO!" is extremely
useful if puppy is about to bite an electrical cord or steal
food off the table, when you are teaching them something
(like obedience) a sharp jerk on their lead or swat with a
stick gets the message across with less emotion and less
effect on their confidence.

If they drop the dummy and act like their mouth hurts
when they are teething, stop all retrieving and wait for
their mouth to feel better. A correction should be just
severe enough to get the dog to respond.

Repeated weak corrections are very stressful to the dog."

=====================

Amy Dahl writes:

"From where I sit, there is a difference. I haven't noticed
any of the contingent who like Koehler trying to force
their method on everyone, or calling others names because
they do not use the method.

I personally believe the Koehler method is a more
humane way of teaching than any alternative I have
studied.

And I am not averse to learning--I have studied a
number of methods.

Koehler, of course, stops far short of the specialized
work I do with retrievers, and some of the things in his
book, such as making the dog walk behind the handler
on the "finish," are inappropriate for retriever work.

Why do I think Koehler's method is more humane than others?

First, I don't believe "corrections vs. no corrections" is as
significant to dogs as it is to people. Applied correctly,
Koehler's method uses *no* intimidation, fear, or emotional
manipulation. It is clear and definite, and the handler's
actions are always predictable. The method is masterfully
designed to prevent confrontation or vying for control in
any way. It places high demands of responsibility on the
trainer, and takes a great deal of commitment to do correctly,
so it is not for the casual "dabbler." When done well,very
few corrections are needed.

In brief, I think the clarity, predictability, and absence
of emotional blackmail weigh more strongly in the method's
favor, than the occasional brief unpleasantness of correction
weighs against it." lying frosty dahl.

END lyingfrosty dahl

> All of these work to some degree,

That so?

> but it's hit or miss.

PERHAPS you're not bein CONSISTENT?

> I don't mind the work teaching her to not bite,

GOOD. You'll have a lotta that.

> but I'm just looking for suggestions/recommendations.

You ain't had ENOUGH YET, jim?

> Anything I should avoid doing?

Yeah. You should get rid of that stupid dog
and get WON that RESPECTS the alphalpha.

> Is it that I don't stick to one method?

YOU BEEN USING WON METHOD, jim. You been HURTIN
and INTIMDIATING your dog JUST LIKE HOWE your
VET instructed you, jim.

> She also likes to chew the sofa.

Good. THAT'S from anXXXIHOWESNESS, from abusin her, jim.

> Should I use the same method for deterring sofa
> biting that I do for biting me?

SHORE! Despite that it AIN'T WORKED on accHOWENT
of you ain't been CONSISTENT...

> Thanks for any advice.

You should SCRUFF SHAKE CHOKE BEAT and CHIN CHUCK IT.

LIKE THIS:

captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A
ResoundingSound Distraction: "When You Chuck The Dog
The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To The Ears And
Give A Popping Sound To The Dog."

From: sionnach (rhyfe...@email.msn.com)
Subject: Re: Correct use of prong collar
Date: 2001-05-05 13:03:14 PST

> And Sally responded:
> >Who said that? I would never do or recommend that, and
> >neither would most of the regulars on here.
> >Sally Hennessey
> I've posted my entire quote, since Patch failed to do so.
> Tke it out of context and you'd think I was flinging puppies
> across the room!
> here's what I said (keep in mind that we're talking about a
> 12 week old ~25# FCR puppy):
> A small scruff shake is appropriate if he's
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^­­^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> very persistant.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Um, may I suggest a re-wording that might make
it clearer-given that "scruff shake" is too easily
misinterpreted as "pick the puppy up by the scruff
of the neck and shake the puppy in the air"?

I think I'd phrase it something like "if the puppy is very
persistant, it can be appropriate to take hold of the loose
skin at the back of the neck and give a slight shake to
the *skin*".

Janet's not talking about actually shaking the puppy,
which I think we ALL agree is abusive.

Aggression, Opposition And Allelomimetic Behavior -
Teaching RESPECT For Your HIGHER INTELLIGENCE -
"BAD DOG ALWAYS WORKS!!!"

Here's professor SCRUFF SHAKE:

Mine will go "bonkers" if he has been exercise deprived.

From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: new puppy bitting/chewing hands
Date: 1999/07/05

In article
<976F54CA8C2C77AB.9DF245927D0D­­AB8B.90BA464FE454E...@lp.airn­e­ws.net


> Jason <asl...@removethisline.geociti­­es.com> writes:
:
> I would assume that all puppies like to bite and chew
> on just about anything. How do you train a young
> puppy NOT to chew on hands and feet? Although
> there is a time and place for saying 'no' and giving
> the dog a scruff shake I do no know if this is appropriate
> at this age.

At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral
function. But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy
by its neck and shake it a bit, and the frequency
of the biting decreases then you will have achieved
too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has
decreased; and two, you have established "No"
as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted biting.

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before
mild forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's
mouth closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad
Dog" came before stronger punishement (the
kind discussed above).

My dog is about 1.5 years old. "No" is usually
sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog" to
stop a behavior.

"Bad Dog" ALWAYS works.

then, of course, quickly say "Good Dog" when
he is appropriately behaving.

In providing verbal punishment and reinforcement
as in using nonverbal punishement and reinforcement,
timing is very important.

Use these consquences to control behavior much
as in the game where a child is told "your getting hot"
or "your getting cold." If the delay between the behavior
and the consquence is too long then the behavior will
not appropriately change.

--Marshall

From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Update on Puppy Biting
Date: 1999/06/14

In article <37675817.19034...@news3.bga.c­­om>
c*n@NO_JUNKdillonet.com writes:

> My previous thread seems to have deteriorated
> off topic, but I would still like some input on
> biting and aggressive behavior. To recount I
> have a Chow/Lab mix who is now 9 weeks old.
> The biggest problem I had with him is biting.
:
> This could have been when petting him, walking
> by, or when playing. This seems to be his way of
> playing or getting attention, but it can drive me nuts.
> To stop this I've distracted with chew toys,

Distraction can be a BIG mistake! Why? Because if
your manipulation of the chew toy is reinforcing then
you are inadvertently reinforcing your dog for biting if
you follow his biting with activating the chew toy.

The standard way to curtail biting is to either "yelp
loudly," "clamp the dog's mouth shut with your hand,"
or "pick him up by the scruff of his neck" and say "no"
whenever he bites.

All of these are punishment procedures and
to work they must be put into place promptly,
within say .5 sec, after the bite.

Isolating the dog after a bite is another form
of punishment called time-out (from reinforcement
but it is hard to rapidly implement--within .5
sec of a bite.

If one of these procedures does not work, that is,
your dog behaves as if it were a game, then you
are not using an effective punisher/procedure.

> I said NO, and failing that put him in my room
> alone for a few min. When in there he barks
> and whines, but afterwards behaves much better.
> After about a week of this the biting has decreased
> remarkably, but hasn't stopped outright. Still does it
> when he gets into hyper Puppy Jihad mode.

Well, be patient.

You can, of course, use differential reinforcement
of other behavior to eliminate biting. If there is a
situation in which your dog often bites. then create
the situation and if your dog goes without biting for
1 sec. offer a reinforcer (click and treat if you use
a clicker).

Then gradually increase the time that your dog
must go without biting for the reinforcer to be
delivered. Eventually, your dog will not bite and
the other behaviors that you have been reinforcing
will be more frequent.

Another factor to consider is whether your dog
is getting sufficient exercise.

Mine will go "bonkers" if he has been exercise deprived.

Best wishes,

Marshall

"Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap,"
professora gingold.

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will
Seem Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe.
This Is A Normal Reaction The First Few Times
It Happens, But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."

"I have heard advice stating that you should
pre-load your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work
as efficiently as possible. What does this mean?

When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first
time, spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth
and walk away. The dog won't be too thrilled with
this but just ignore him and continue your normal
behavior." --Mike Dufort author of the zero selling
book "Courteous Canines"

> Jim

If you are interested in purchasing a dignified stick to
lay across you puppy's arse, just send a personal check
or money order in the amount of $30-$40 for a 30"-40"
long whuppin stick.

These all natural hickory switches will outlast an
entire litter of puppies! MAYBE MOORE!! Supplies
limited, so HURRY! Be the first in your club to have
the hickory switch training aid guaranteed for the life
of your dog (which may be much shorter ...

"Accentuate The Positive"
Hello People,

"Accentuate The Positive." That's the title of our friend captain
haggerty's column in the recent a.k.c. gazette. "When positive
reinforcement is all that is necessary, training is pleasurable to
both of you," says the good cap'n. At least we can agree on that.
Maybe the good capt'n has been reading my posts here and is feeling
a lot self-conscious about our recent progress teaching dog
owners to understand what's gone wrong.

Well, its about time. Too bad the good cap'n (teacher to uncle matty
[see L.A.Weekly article] and our own boob maida and ???possibly
our own anonymous dogman???) is on the wrong side the fear,
force, confrontation, and pain issue. Our traditional trainers
led by the likes of our good cap'n and our Descartean professors
of behavior are the root of the problem, rather than a source of
information and inspiration that we desperately need and want...

Too bad our good cap'n is hiding behind the cover of the akc and
their publication The A.K.C. Gazzette, where he can't be forced to
respond to this criticism and indictment of his methods, methodology,
and madness, and engage in discussion or debate or at least try to
defend his unconscionalble point of view, that hurting dogs to train
them is appropriate, intellignent, and justifiable based on his
thirty sumthin years of hurting dogs to train them and killing dogs
he can't abuse into subordination... or TRAIN, if you will.

You think he knows enough about dog training and conditioning
behavior to teach you HOWE to use only positive reinforcement? He
can't do it himself, so HOWE do you expect him to teach you?

The good cap'n mumbles on about his perception of clicker training
and calls it LUCK. He then goes on to say: "if you have to let a
dog know when it is doing something right, then you must also let it
know when it is doing something wrong." (Don't you just love it when
dog lovers refer to your dog as IT?) HOWE does the good cap'n
extrapolate the need to let the dog know he's doing something we
want, to being obligated to tell the dog he's doing something we
don't want? That's the point to positive only methods. WE do not
NEED to tell the dog NO if we are smart enough to OUTWIT the
PUPPY DOG.

It's EZ if you know HOWE. The good cap'n doesn't.

The good cap'n further shoves his foot deep into his mouth with:
"the latter requires some sort of negative reinforcement, which, of
course, is something of an oxymoron," Too bad he doesn't
understand the scientific meaning of the terms positive and negative
reinforcent.

Yes I know exactly what the cap'n means. He means that he does not
have the intellect to be able to train a dog without hurting and
confronting him.

First he start off talking purely positive and then he says that
because we tell the dog when he's doing something right, that we're
obligated to tell the dog when he's doing something wrong. That's
what the cap'n does. Competent dog trainers don't do that because
it's confrontational and causes aversions to commands and handler.

"It can be as uncomplicated as saying a firm NO." EXACTLY MY POINT.
Competent trainers don't be telling dogs firmly NO on account of that's
what provokes dogs to do more of the same behavior to make
us stop in our tracks to tell them NO and spend time distracted
with them, when all we would have needed is to allow the dog to attempt
the behavior and make a brief distraction and praise. Do
that a few times in a row and the dog will be broken of that behavior.

But our heavy handed thick headed weak minded cap'n can't figure
that out because he doesn't have the brains to outwit a puppy dog
or he would, wouldn't he???

Or, is it because he enjoys jerking and choking and confronting
dogs to make them do what he wants? I think our friend the good
cap'n might have some CONTROL issues to deal with in his own
personality complex.

"One good thing about negative reinforcement is that when
appropriately delivered, it can immediately stop an unwanted
behavior." O.K. cap'n. You can repress a behavior but there
is often a replacement behavior that may be worse than the
behavior you are trying to repress. I can give dozens of
examples so don't even start with that.

"Now I know there are people who claim that they use only positive
reinforcement and no negatives." But the good cap'n isn't familar
enough with dog training and behavior to do that. "I'm a bit
skeptical when when I hear this claim." And that's all the proof I
need to prove our good cap'n to be an incompetent dog trainer.

"You CAN train a dog using all positives. Generally speaking,
though, it is not as efficacious." Now ain't that an oxymoron?
Either that or it's an outright lie. What's the story? If you hurt a
dog he's going to want to work more willingly and more creatively
than if you are only using positive motivation and conditioning
techniques which will make the dog think he's working instinctively
through his natural pack cooperative teamwork effort as NATURE
PROGRAMMED HIM?

Come off it cap'n. Get the heel outta this business and stop
misleading people because you ain't bright enough to train a dog
without hurting them.

Then the good cap'n continues on talking about corrections and
punishiment and says "punishment free training is a wonderful
sounding concept, a great sales pitch." The cap'n is fighting for
his career and reputation. His ship is sinking fast.

Then our good cap'n, the expert who isn't bright enough to train a
puppy dog without hurting him, has the nerve to say "They are making
some great adjustments and sacrifices for what they feel to
be the sake of their dog." Does the cap'n think that training dogs
quickly and without fear, force, confrontation, punishment, or
negative side effects is not as sensible as training a dog by
locking IT inside of a crate and a chin cuffing and scruff shaking
and jerking and choking IT on a pronged choke or shock collar and
time outs and punishments?

Something is very wrong here. We've got an expert who can't train a
dog without hurting him telling YOU that WE can't train dogs as
quickly and effectively using proven scientific and psychological
behavior conditoning and modification techniques. That's outrageous,
isn't it folks?

Our simple minded cap'n continues to discredit himself saying:
"Some even feel that corrections would shatter their relationship
with their dog. I'm sure that they do not have that tenuous a
relationship with their dogs, but if they feel they do, that is
their perorgative." What's tenuous about a good relationship?
Suppose it only deteriorates your relationship A LITTLE. That's
GOOD? There's no need to force and hurt dogs to train them IF our
cap'n's got enough intelligence, he's only using it to fabricate
arguments to defend his thirty sumthin year history of abusing dogs
and calling it training.

He then goes on the rationalize HOWE non force training takes
longer. He don't get it. He don't understand getting a dog to want
to do everything you ask because YOU know HOWE to make Natural
Law work for you to compel your dog to want to do anything you ask
without force, fear, or punishment.

The cap'n goes off rambling about the combination approach of
sometimes being positive and sometimes being corrective forgetting
about such things as allelomimetic behavior and consistancy and
slobbers all over himself saying "it reduces stress by letting the
dog realize what's wanted and you can tell by the expression on it's
face IT appreciates the guidance." "Why limit yourself?"

The good cap'n don't get it because he's not intellectually capable
of understanding. He goes on to say: "Punishment free trainers
deserve credit for taking a road less traveled. It's not a road that
I choose to take. I want to get the job done expeditiously." So he
confronts and punishes a dog because he doen't think making a dog
want to do everything you ask using purely positive proven
scientific and psychological techniques is possible.

Your positive pal, Jerry "Mr NICE Guy," Howe. j;~}


Kadaitcha Man
2005-05-18 12:30:16 EST
On 18 May 2005 00:31:20 -0700, YourWorstFreakinNightmare@InBox.Com
scribbled the following boring shit:

>HOWEDY pat you miserable lying dog abusin mental case,
>
>unsurreality_2005@yahoo.com wrote:
>> Hey assHOWE,
>>
>> Why are you so incredibly desperate for attention?
>
>The Amazing Puppy Wizard has IDENTIFIED EXXXPOSED and
>DISCREDITED all the EXXXPERTS in the behavior industry.

You are a big fat LIAR, you snotfucked cuntfungus!

>> I'd expect this behavior from a 13-year old,
>
>In some cultures that when a boy becomes a man, pat.

Not true. boys do not become a man until they reach the age of
majority. So shut up about it, you stumpnecked cuntblister.

>> but you, at your age,
>
>The Amazing Puppy Wizard is timeless, pat.

LIAR. You reduced yourself to acting like a 2 year old by insulting
posters in this newsgroup, you stupid braindead fannyfart.


>
>The Amazing Puppy Wizard relies on SUCCESS, not EXXXCUSES.

LIAR.

>
>> What are you trying to accomplish with your entirely childish crap?
>
>The Amazing Puppy Wizard intends to research human behavior, pat.

LIAR.


>> Either do something real about "dog abusers"
>
>We're doin that RIGHT NHOWE, pat.

LIAR. You are plastering everybody as dog abusers instead of getting
your facts straight. Otherwise stop it or end up stuck with a
defamation lawsuit, which can happen if you don't stop, you snotfucked
pillock.


>> instead of badgering a few dozen people in a newsgroup
>
>You mean the EXXXPERTS like professor SCRUFF SHAKE dermer and
>his punk thug coward partner dr. mark plonsky of UofWI and
>the rest of the university behaviorsists who likeWIZE HURT
>INTIMIDATE and MURDER dogs, punks like captain arthur haggerty
>his little girl babbette and his graduate students booby maida
>and uncle matty margolis the lying theives, Master Of Deception
>blankman and lying frosty dahl and lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn
>and janet boss and leah roberts and big b and tommy sorenson
>aka lyingdogDUMMY aka jack morrison and the rest of these punk
>thug coward mental cases.


You shut the fuck up and fuck off. You are not wanted in here and you
better be very careful, or you will get shitted on by us venomous
newsgroup posters as we will heap alot of verbal abuse all over you as
long as you refuse to leave the newsgroup. Good luck fighting the
defamation and slander lawsuits that will be slapped on you in the
coming weeks. See you in court!

FOAD.

YourConscience
2005-05-18 17:39:13 EST
HOWEDY kadaitcha man,

The Amazing Puppy Wizard is researching YOUR kinda
human behavior. The DATA amd RESULTS are indellibly
archived RIGHT HERE.

As for defamatin, the good captain arthur haggerty
JUST LOST his suit for defamation against The Amazing
Puppy Wizard on accHOWENT of he COULDN'T PROVE he AIN'T
a DOG ABUSER and A COWARD on accHOWENT of if he DENIES
it he's a LIAR on accHOWENT of The Amazing Puppy Wizard
QUOTED him HURTIN and INTIMIDATING dogs and if he DENIED
THAT, he'd PROVE hisself to be a doGgamened MENTAL CASE.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAAAAA!!!

Attention kiddies and decent people, the following
post from kadaitcha man contains mindless vulgarity.
Puke bags are recommended. Do not read if you got a
weak stomach or disapprove of mindless profanity:

Kadaitcha Man wrote:
> On 18 May 2005 00:31:20 -0700,
> YourWorstFreakinNightmare@InBox.Com
> scribbled the following boring shit:
>
> >HOWEDY pat you miserable lying dog abusin mental case,
> >
> >unsurreality_2005@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> Hey assHOWE,
> >>
> >> Why are you so incredibly desperate for attention?
> >
> >The Amazing Puppy Wizard has IDENTIFIED EXXXPOSED and
> >DISCREDITED all the EXXXPERTS in the behavior industry.
>
> You are a big fat LIAR, you snotfucked cuntfungus!
>
> >> I'd expect this behavior from a 13-year old,
> >
> >In some cultures that when a boy becomes a man, pat.
>
> Not true. boys do not become a man until they reach the age of
> majority. So shut up about it, you stumpnecked cuntblister.
>
> >> but you, at your age,
> >
> >The Amazing Puppy Wizard is timeless, pat.
>
> LIAR. You reduced yourself to acting like a 2 year old by insulting
> posters in this newsgroup, you stupid braindead fannyfart.
>
>
> >
> >The Amazing Puppy Wizard relies on SUCCESS, not EXXXCUSES.
>
> LIAR.
>
> >
> >> What are you trying to accomplish with your entirely childish
crap?
> >
> >The Amazing Puppy Wizard intends to research human behavior, pat.
>
> LIAR.
>
>
> >> Either do something real about "dog abusers"
> >
> >We're doin that RIGHT NHOWE, pat.
>
> LIAR. You are plastering everybody as dog abusers instead of getting
> your facts straight. Otherwise stop it or end up stuck with a
> defamation lawsuit, which can happen if you don't stop, you
snotfucked
> pillock.
>
>
> >> instead of badgering a few dozen people in a newsgroup
> >
> >You mean the EXXXPERTS like professor SCRUFF SHAKE dermer and
> >his punk thug coward partner dr. mark plonsky of UofWI and
> >the rest of the university behaviorsists who likeWIZE HURT
> >INTIMIDATE and MURDER dogs, punks like captain arthur haggerty
> >his little girl babbette and his graduate students booby maida
> >and uncle matty margolis the lying theives, Master Of Deception
> >blankman and lying frosty dahl and lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn
> >and janet boss and leah roberts and big b and tommy sorenson
> >aka lyingdogDUMMY aka jack morrison and the rest of these punk
> >thug coward mental cases.
>
>
> You shut the fuck up and fuck off. You are not wanted in here and you
> better be very careful, or you will get shitted on by us venomous
> newsgroup posters as we will heap alot of verbal abuse all over you
as
> long as you refuse to leave the newsgroup. Good luck fighting the
> defamation and slander lawsuits that will be slapped on you in the
> coming weeks. See you in court!
>
> FOAD.


Kadaitcha Man
2005-05-18 22:35:43 EST
On 18 May 2005 14:39:13 -0700, "YourConscience"
<*d@HushMail.Com> scribbled the
following boring shit:

>HOWEDY kadaitcha man,
>
>The Amazing Puppy Wizard is researching YOUR kinda
>human behavior. The DATA amd RESULTS are indellibly
>archived RIGHT HERE.

You are still a LIAR, you snotfucked cuntflap!

>As for defamatin, the good captain arthur haggerty
>JUST LOST his suit for defamation against The Amazing
>Puppy Wizard on accHOWENT of he COULDN'T PROVE he AIN'T
>a DOG ABUSER and A COWARD on accHOWENT of if he DENIES
>it he's a LIAR on accHOWENT of The Amazing Puppy Wizard
>QUOTED him HURTIN and INTIMIDATING dogs and if he DENIED
>THAT, he'd PROVE hisself to be a doGgamened MENTAL CASE.

I do not give a shit what you say, you stupid paranoid douchebag. You
are one fucked up snotfucked cuntfungus and a vile piece of shit on
USENET.

>BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAAAAA!!!
>
>Attention kiddies and decent people, the following
>post from kadaitcha man contains mindless vulgarity.
>Puke bags are recommended. Do not read if you got a
>weak stomach or disapprove of mindless profanity:

FUCK YOU, SHITBAG!

Go and get fucked you lazy shitbag cunt. You are not worth the
cuntfuck trouble.

You shut the fuck up and fuck off. You are not wanted in here and you
better be very careful, or you will get shitted on by us venomous
newsgroup posters as we will heap alot of verbal abuse all over you
as long as you refuse to leave the newsgroup. Good luck fighting the
defamation and slander lawsuits that will be slapped on you in the
coming weeks. See you in court!

FOAD.

Kadaitcha Man








U*@yahoo.com
2005-05-18 23:11:01 EST

Y*e@InBox.Com wrote:
> HOWEDY pat you miserable lying dog abusin mental case,
>
> unsurreality_2005@yahoo.com wrote:
> > Hey assHOWE,
> >
> > Why are you so incredibly desperate for attention?
>
> The Amazing Puppy Wizard has IDENTIFIED EXXXPOSED and
> DISCREDITED all the EXXXPERTS in the behavior industry.

Well, no, you haven't exposed one. Let's start with exposing one.

>
> > I'd expect this behavior from a 13-year old,
>
> In some cultures that when a boy becomes a man, pat.

True enough - you haven't reached being a man even yet.

>
> > but you, at your age,
>
> The Amazing Puppy Wizard is timeless, pat.
>
> > have no excuse.
>
> The Amazing Puppy Wizard relies on SUCCESS, not EXXXCUSES.

A) Your system (that you call YOURS) is not 100% successful. B) You
PROMISED to take down all these dog abusers in court for - tell us -
how many years?

>
> > What are you trying to accomplish with your entirely childish crap?
>
> The Amazing Puppy Wizard intends to research human behavior, pat.

"The Amazing Puppy Wizard" does not intend that in even the remote
possibility. It's an excuse to act "clever." Which you aren't.

>
> > Either do something real about "dog abusers"
>
> We're doin that RIGHT NHOWE, pat.

Well, no we aren't. You are simply insane and believe that. Hopefully
the meds will kick in something and brighten you up.

>
> > instead of badgering a few dozen people in a newsgroup
>
> You mean the EXXXPERTS like professor SCRUFF SHAKE dermer and
> his punk thug coward partner dr. mark plonsky of UofWI and
> the rest of the university behaviorsists who likeWIZE HURT
> INTIMIDATE and MURDER dogs, punks like captain arthur haggerty
> his little girl babbette and his graduate students booby maida
> and uncle matty margolis the lying theives, Master Of Deception
> blankman and lying frosty dahl and lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn
> and janet boss and leah roberts and big b and tommy sorenson
> aka lyingdogDUMMY aka jack morrison and the rest of these punk
> thug coward mental cases.

Sure. That's who I mean. They are 20 times more intelligent than you.
They can even spell and act civilized. You can't do either. They can
also act as adults. YOU CAN'T.

>
> > or shut the fuck up.
>
> You'll ENJOY THIS, pat:

I don't know if I'd enjoy this or not since I won't read it - I know
the garbage you post.

Have a wonderful day!

Pat

<SNIP>


U*@yahoo.com
2005-05-18 23:25:11 EST
Provide the case # and where it was held. I'm more than sure you are
lying again.


YourConscience wrote:
> HOWEDY kadaitcha man,
>
> The Amazing Puppy Wizard is researching YOUR kinda
> human behavior. The DATA amd RESULTS are indellibly
> archived RIGHT HERE.
>
> As for defamatin, the good captain arthur haggerty
> JUST LOST his suit for defamation against The Amazing
> Puppy Wizard on accHOWENT of he COULDN'T PROVE he AIN'T
> a DOG ABUSER and A COWARD on accHOWENT of if he DENIES
> it he's a LIAR on accHOWENT of The Amazing Puppy Wizard
> QUOTED him HURTIN and INTIMIDATING dogs and if he DENIED
> THAT, he'd PROVE hisself to be a doGgamened MENTAL CASE.
>
> BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAAAAA!!!
>
> Attention kiddies and decent people, the following
> post from kadaitcha man contains mindless vulgarity.
> Puke bags are recommended. Do not read if you got a
> weak stomach or disapprove of mindless profanity:
>
> Kadaitcha Man wrote:
> > On 18 May 2005 00:31:20 -0700,
> > YourWorstFreakinNightmare@InBox.Com
> > scribbled the following boring shit:
> >
> > >HOWEDY pat you miserable lying dog abusin mental case,
> > >
> > >unsurreality_2005@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >> Hey assHOWE,
> > >>
> > >> Why are you so incredibly desperate for attention?
> > >
> > >The Amazing Puppy Wizard has IDENTIFIED EXXXPOSED and
> > >DISCREDITED all the EXXXPERTS in the behavior industry.
> >
> > You are a big fat LIAR, you snotfucked cuntfungus!
> >
> > >> I'd expect this behavior from a 13-year old,
> > >
> > >In some cultures that when a boy becomes a man, pat.
> >
> > Not true. boys do not become a man until they reach the age of
> > majority. So shut up about it, you stumpnecked cuntblister.
> >
> > >> but you, at your age,
> > >
> > >The Amazing Puppy Wizard is timeless, pat.
> >
> > LIAR. You reduced yourself to acting like a 2 year old by insulting
> > posters in this newsgroup, you stupid braindead fannyfart.
> >
> >
> > >
> > >The Amazing Puppy Wizard relies on SUCCESS, not EXXXCUSES.
> >
> > LIAR.
> >
> > >
> > >> What are you trying to accomplish with your entirely childish
> crap?
> > >
> > >The Amazing Puppy Wizard intends to research human behavior, pat.
> >
> > LIAR.
> >
> >
> > >> Either do something real about "dog abusers"
> > >
> > >We're doin that RIGHT NHOWE, pat.
> >
> > LIAR. You are plastering everybody as dog abusers instead of
getting
> > your facts straight. Otherwise stop it or end up stuck with a
> > defamation lawsuit, which can happen if you don't stop, you
> snotfucked
> > pillock.
> >
> >
> > >> instead of badgering a few dozen people in a newsgroup
> > >
> > >You mean the EXXXPERTS like professor SCRUFF SHAKE dermer and
> > >his punk thug coward partner dr. mark plonsky of UofWI and
> > >the rest of the university behaviorsists who likeWIZE HURT
> > >INTIMIDATE and MURDER dogs, punks like captain arthur haggerty
> > >his little girl babbette and his graduate students booby maida
> > >and uncle matty margolis the lying theives, Master Of Deception
> > >blankman and lying frosty dahl and lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn
> > >and janet boss and leah roberts and big b and tommy sorenson
> > >aka lyingdogDUMMY aka jack morrison and the rest of these punk
> > >thug coward mental cases.
> >
> >
> > You shut the fuck up and fuck off. You are not wanted in here and
you
> > better be very careful, or you will get shitted on by us venomous
> > newsgroup posters as we will heap alot of verbal abuse all over you
> as
> > long as you refuse to leave the newsgroup. Good luck fighting the
> > defamation and slander lawsuits that will be slapped on you in the
> > coming weeks. See you in court!
> >
> > FOAD.

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