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Michael 3.0
2004-10-15 23:21:59 EST
Hello fans,

think about this the next time you take a dog to
the local "shelter"



Stu Bykofsky | Sheea didn't have a chance

Dog was destroyed soon after she arrived at 'shelter'

By Stu Bykofsky

s*o@phillynews.com

NINE SHORT minutes.

That was Sheea's lifespan from the time she arrived at Philadelphia
Animal Care and Control Association until they put her down.

The rush to execute the innocent 2-year-old Shetland sheepdog brought
grief to the Troy family and heartbreak to 7-year-old Kayla, who had
named the puppy after getting it as a gift from her uncle Steve two
years ago.

In addition to suffering the cruel loss of their "friendly, playful"
pet, the Troys were subjected to stonewalling, lies and verbal abuse
from workers at PACCA, according to Steve Troy, who said the family is
still waiting for a truthful explanation, not to mention an apology.

"We're challenged now with as many as 200 animals a day coming into
PACCA. A lot of them are strays. A lot of them are owners that don't
like the fact that the dog doesn't match the new rug, or for whatever
reason," PACCA President Joseph Cronauer told me. "Think about what 200
animals a day adds up to."

It adds up to a lot of unwanted pets, but that wasn't the case with the
Troys' little Sheea.

Sheea ran away

For the Troy family, the misery began Sunday, Aug. 8, when Sheea, who
looked like a miniature collie, ran out of the yard of the family home
in Wissinoming. The Troys used to remove Sheea's collar at night and
replace it in the morning, but on this day Sheea ran off before they got
it on her.

The family searched everywhere. They plastered the neighborhood with
"lost dog" posters. They contacted PACCA and the SPCA to ask if a dog
matching Sheea's description had been turned in, said Ed Troy, Steve
Troy's brother. They did everything they could think of doing.

Late on Saturday, Aug. 14, the Troys got a call from Carol Kinback. She
told the Troys she had found their dog and had brought her to the PACCA
shelter on Hunting Park Avenue near Front Street on Wednesday, Aug. 11 -
before seeing the "lost dog" poster.

Kinback never dreamed she was dooming the gentle pet.

Two years ago, PACCA took over from the SPCA responsibility for animal
control, plus sheltering, taking in and adopting out animals in
Philadelphia.

The sad truth is there are more animals than there are homes. Last year,
PACCA received 32,723 animals and destroyed 22,558 of them.

Nine minutes to doom

Kayla's mom, Susan, raced to PACCA to rescue their beloved Sheea, only
to learn she had been put down nine minutes after her arrival.

How could this happen, Susan demanded to know.

"Their story changed many times as my Mom tried to get some answers and
see some paperwork," said Ed Troy. "They refused and told her to leave."

Susan and two sons, Mike and Steve, returned the next day, loudly
demanding answers.

"Again [secretaries] were rude, but finally showed us some paperwork"
indicating the dog had been put down nine minutes after she arrived,
said Steve, who admits he and Mike shouted and that Mike dropped the F bomb.

PACCA refused to let the Troys "talk to the vet or see the cremation
papers," said Ed. "Did they even kill the dog or are they selling these
dogs and not telling us?" he asked. The Troys harbor suspicions because
their pedigree dog was worth $600.

Overseeing PACCA is the city Health Department. Two weeks ago Deputy
Health Commissioner Carmen Paris told me the dog was surrendered by the
owner.

Yesterday afternoon, Paris said she was mistaken. An investigation found
that a PACCA staffer erroneously recorded the woman bringing in the dog
as the owner.

That Good Samaritan, Carol Kinback, told me she has turned in other
strays to PACCA. But this time she had a "sense" something was
different. Usually she's handed a receipt for the dog.

"This time the guy who took the dog took the paper," she said, adding
that Sheea was a "gentle, gentle dog."

In a cruel irony, Mike Troy had put up a "lost dog" poster in the PACCA
lobby just hours before Kinback turned in Sheea.

Was Sheea unpredictable?

As to why Sheea was so quickly put to death, Paris said the shelter told
her the dog was "unpredictable" and became "aggressive."

"She was fine, just scared" at PACCA, Kinback told me.

Family members said the dog was always friendly and playful, never
aggressive. Roseanne McGuire, a dog groomer who worked on Sheea, called
her "a sweetheart" who never nipped, never growled, never bit.

The bottom line is that Sheea apparently died at the hands of those who
should have been her protectors, whether through stupidity, error or
indifference.

The Troys - who went from heartbreak to suspicion and fury - are fuming
at getting neither answers nor apology. They say last August, PACCA
Executive Director George Stem promised them he'd order an investigation
and give them a report.

It's October and they've received nothing.

Paris says the Troys must have misunderstood Stem because PACCA is
unionized and Stem couldn't give the Troys a report that named individuals.

We didn't need names, Steve Troy said. Just an honest answer.

Paris also said one of the Troys had taken a swing at Stem and flipped
over some tables as they stormed out.

Steve Troy admitted he flipped over a table in anger and frustration
after being stonewalled on how and why Kayla's dog died. He denies
threatening Stem. "I'd be in jail now if I did that."

His frustration is understandable. Something smells bad at PACCA, and I
don't mean dog poop.
E-mail Stu Bykofsky at stubyko@phillynews.com or call 215-854-5977.

The Puppy Wizard
2004-10-16 01:13:37 EST
HOWEDY Soup,

"michael 3.0" <michael30@yahooogoogling.com> wrote in message
news:csidnQFO3_fEDu3cRVn-hA@comcast.com...
> Hello fans,
>
> think about this the next time you take a dog to
> the local "shelter"

What's the PROBLEM, it's ONLY a DOG.

HOWEDY People,

What kinda IDIOCY is this?:

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)

"Remember this - The decision to "do right" that most
helps a dog's character is the decision that he makes
himself. You cannot teach a dog to not want something,
any more than you can teach a human not to want
something."

"I'm a Koehler-based trainer and used almost
exactly the same techniques with my very dog
aggressive bitch.

2. I have often rejected many of Koehler's Capt.
13 methods, from his response to digging to tieing
things in a dog's mouth.

FWIW, I use almost none of Koehler's training
techniques, having found methods I prefer, but
still find much value in his approach to dogs.

Briefly, I didn't refer to Koehler and didn't
mean Koehler when I used the term
"confrontational".

Natalie, it is next to impossible to form any kind
of educated opinion on the work of the late Wm.
Koehler from what is said or quoted in this newsgroup.

The conclusion you have reached illustrates that.

"Remember this - The decision to "do right" that
most helps a dog's character is the decision that
he makes himself."

Personally, I'm not a Koehler trainer,
I don't use a choke chain, and I don't
believe a dog learns anything by being
hung.

Please don't make the mistake of believing Jerry's
characterization of me or any other trainer. He has
never met any of us and has no idea how anyone
here actually trains.

Jerry labelling someone as a Koehler type
doesn't make it so.

Lynn K.


"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

> From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
> Subject: Re: That type of thinking kills dogs
> Date: 1999/05/18
>
> Ron Hardin wrote:
>
> > If you're prepared to be impressed by
> > seriousness in a dog, Koehler is for you.
>
> Ron, your whole post was incredibly good.
>
> It resonated with appreciation for honest working dogs.
>
> I've begun to think that the bond and partnership
> that comes from working with a dog is something
> that has to be experienced and felt.
>
> It cannot be explained and someone who is
> limited to begging, cajoling, bribery and hoping
> will never experience it.
>
> Maybe that's really what is meant
> when we say "trust your dog".
>
> Lynn K.

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.

"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.

Should I have refused to groom them?

Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."

Lynn K.

> Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
> news:<04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews>...
>
> > >> Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
> > >> quotes are true.
> > >> In the posts below you take responsibility for
> > >> making those calls.
> > >> In your post above, you state you do not
> > >> make those calls.
> > >>Which one is it?

BBBWEEEEEEAAAAAAHAHAHHAHHAAA!!!

"The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWizard@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3k%Sc.23319$Jp6.2396@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> HOWEDY Lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn,
>
> You've been discredited by gettin bagged
> in your lies and discovered in your twenty
> year fight against mental illness in so many
> ways it's PATHETIC and CRUEL to The
> Amazing Puppy Wizard to read the tripe you write.
>
> michael erskin would be INSANE to believe you.
>
> And he'd be NUTS not to apologize to The Amazing
> Puppy Wizard for all the WORK he's cost HIM.
>
> But THAT'S not necessary, on accHOWENT of
> althHOWE it's a DIRTY JOB, someWON gotta
> do it and The Amazing Puppy Wizard didn't notice
> anyWON willing to go the extra mile to push michael
> over the brink of insanity or back into reality.
>
> That's a TOUGH CHOICE. Let's hope michael
> doesn't buy the farm like the dogs you abuse.
>
> "Lynn K." <javagsd@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:37cd72a9.0408121946.5e03e339@posting.google.com...
> > osiris@deltaville.net (Michael Erskine) wrote in message
news:<e59f93b2.0408120909.96d2225@posting.google.com>...
> >
> > > Anyone got ideas on what to do with this dog
> > > that might help him to decide that he wants to
> > > follow and that he has nothing to fear from me?
>
> From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
> Subject: Re: What *did* happen to Fritz?
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
> Date: 2001-01-05 13:39:53 PST
>
> Dserthorse wrote:
> >
> > I remember reading posts about him, and seeing
> > his photos at a binary newsgroup. I know he died :-(
> > I never knew what did happen, and I assumed he
> > had a previously unknown health problem.
>
> Robert put Fritz down for aggression problems.
>
> Lynn K.
>
> From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
> Subject: Re: DOMINANCE ANSWERS =
> Crim Writes About Koehler's "Methods'
> Date: 2000/09/20
>
> Terri McAuley wrote:
>
> > I sincerely believe that this dog was an
> > genetic mess and that I still feel that the
> > end would have been the same, no matter
> > what method of training was or was not used.
>
> I believe the same, and said so to Robert at the time.
>
> He was in a great deal of pain and looking for
> answers that were not readily available.
>
> That doesn't mean that the answers he
> grasped at were correct.
>
> Lynn K.
>
>
>
> <"Terri"@cyberhighway
>
> > Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> > He has millions of people aleady reading
> > his posts and watching him extract his soggy
> > foot out of his mouth!
> > Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2
> > naive childs come forward and actually
> > believe in his training manual.
>
> Robert Crim writes:
>
> I assume that I and my wife are those two
> naive childs since I freely admit to having
> read and, I hope, understood enough of the
> manual and it's counterparts by John Fisher
> and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
> and use it.
>
> This naive child would like to say thank you
> to both Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with
> a constant barrage of really infantile crap at
> the hands of supposedly adult dog lovers.
>
> The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with
> the nagging idea that if people like them had
> been posting earlier, maybe we would not have
> had to hold the head of a really magnificent
> animal in our arms while he was given the
> needle and having to hug him and wait until
> he gasped his last gasp.
>
> To my mind, "naive" is believing you can
> terrorize a dog into good behavior. Naive is
> believing that people that hide behind fake
> names are more honest than people that use
> their real names.
>
> Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
> and amateur "trainers" like Joey
> (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.) are the equal or better
> than those that have studied and lived by their
> craft for decades.
>
> "Stupid" is believing that people do not see
> kindergarten level insults for what they are.
>
> Really stupid is believing that people like
> Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are going
> to just go away because you people act like
> fools. Why do you act like fools? I really
> have no idea, and I don't really care.
>
> > And, to date: I've not seen ONE come
> > forward and actually admit to buying and
> > having success with his little black box.
>
> I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's
> day and take it down to the Animal Shelter for
> their use and testing. You would never believe
> the results, so you'll never know.
>
> > Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man
> > coming by Jerry's posts deserves to get what
> > is sure to be coming to him! LOL!
>
> I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
> Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve, eh?
>
> As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.
>
> >Terri
>
> Yes it was, and that is sad.
>
> Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei
> (do I get to listen to the box first?)
>
> From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
> Subject: Re: Post time
> Date: 1999/06/20
>
> Robert Crim wrote:
> >
> > Thanks, but take a look at the post on "the
> > aggressive city dog" That is almost exactly
> > 180 from what I did. What is the story here?
> >
> > These two different approaches can't possibly co-exist.
>
> I re-read it, and I guess I don't see the problem,
> maybe because I have a misimpression of what
> you did. I don't see the dicotomy you do.
>
> I'm a Koehler-based trainer and used almost
> exactly the same techniques with my very dog
> aggressive bitch.
>
> The only exception is that I do add a "Leave It"
> command when she starts to think about reacting
> to another dog.
>
> But it isn't as if you give a command, then wait
> for the opportunity to punish (Note -I never punish,
> don't believe in it.)
>
> The sequence is more: dog starts to tense,
> "Leave It", "Good Dog, Good Girl", "Come on -
> let's go about our business" as you move on.
>
> There's nothing non-Koehler in that sequence,
> nor is there anything that different from the other
> sequence other than a key word to signal the dog
> to choose a different path.
>
> In other words, I don't see it as black and white.
>
> There's lots of grays in there, and that's where
> the flexibility comes from to modify training to
> suit different dogs.
>
> Lynn K.
>
>
> From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
>
> Subject: Re: Canine Behaviorists! A weird one. =
> Then Why Does The Dog Show Guilt?
> That's What koehler Teaches.
>
> Date: 2000-10-09 20:13:19 PST
>
> Natalie Hulbert wrote:
> >
> > It seems to me that this Koehler person is
> > doing the number one mistake in dog training.
> >
> > * major snippage *
> >
> > I haven't read this Koehler method, but I can
> > see from what I have heard that it is a method
> > that utilises the fact that the dog isn't as complex
> > as humans and uses this against the dog.
>
> Natalie, it is next to impossible to form any kind
> of educated opinion on the work of the late Wm.
> Koehler from what is said or quoted in this newsgroup.
>
> The conclusion you have reached illustrates that.
>
> Reading his books is a very different thing than
> reading the rehash and secondary opinions of
> others, particularly since there have been so
> many changes in dog training since the time
> the books were written.
>
> FWIW, I use almost none of Koehler's training
> techniques, having found methods I prefer, but
> still find much value in his approach to dogs.
>
> Lynn K.
>
>
> From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
> Subject: Re: Aggressive GSD - Help!
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
> Date: 2000-09-02 00:34:35 PST
>
> Ole Tex wrote:
>
> > Of course not. She will go with Lynn or
> > someone else that appears to be reasonable.
> > As a result, the Koehler types will win and
> > another dog will get needled.
>
> Please don't make the mistake of believing Jerry's
> characterization of me or any other trainer. He has
> never met any of us and has no idea how anyone
> here actually trains.
>
> Jerry labelling someone as a Koehler type
> doesn't make it so.
>
> Lynn K.
>
> From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
> Subject: Re: To Dogman
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
> Date: 1999/11/08
>
> Marilyn Rammell wrote:
>
> > You may well be able to have a reasonable
> > discussion with him Lynn (without being called
> > names, being threatened and having vile photos
> > of what he says are you pinned up on a website),
> > but that's only because you don't publicly disagree
> > with Koehler's more brutal approaches and/or you
> > haven't publicly said you agree with even one of
> > Jerry Howe's techniques.
>
> Marilyn, you happen to be very wrong on a number
> of counts in the above. I think your current anger at
> Dogman is coloring your judgement and objectivity.
>
> 1. Dogman has had a number of very inventive
> names for me over the years, involving everything
> from my politics to my choice of footwear. None
> of us are exempt. However, I'll happily take those,
> and the spirit in which they are meant, over Jerry's
> truly insulting names and accusations.
>
> 2. I have often rejected many of Koehler's Capt.
> 13 methods, from his response to digging to tieing
> things in a dog's mouth.
>
> 3. I can cite times I've posted in agreement with
> some of Jerry's suggestion (often acknowedging
> the original source of the technique).
>
> 4. Disagreeing with Dogman is no different than
> disagreeing with anyone else. Witness the frequent
> disagreements on field training techniques he and
> Amy Frost Dahl have.
>
> Lynn K.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --------------
>
> "You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
> Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
> Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
> Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
> LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
>
> lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:
>
> "This Article Is Something We've Put Together
> For SF GSD Rescue
>
> From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
> Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
> Date: 1999/11/20
>
> ginger57@my-deja.com wrote:
> > How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.
>
> Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.
>
> "Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
> forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
> better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
> this situation.
>
> Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
> should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
> to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
> take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
> time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
> whatever other reward system was being used."
>
> 8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
> Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
> works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
> dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
> you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
> walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
> why you have the dog muzzled).
>
> If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
> cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
> voice and the collar.
>
> This is important - the correction must be physically
> very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
> to be corrected at all)."
>
> "I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
> every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
> effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
> older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.

>
> Should I have refused to groom them?
>
> Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
> had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
>
> Lynn K.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --------------
>
>
> > Explanation, not confrontation.
>
> From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
> Subject: Re: I read rec.pets.dogs.behavior yesterday. Yikes!
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.breeds
> Date: 2001-01-03 22:31:57 PST
>
> Woodlawn412 wrote:
>
> > I'm sorry if I made you feel defensive--any of
> > you--but it was such awful stuff to read.
>
> What you have to realize is that it is all of the
> same people - except the looney. He sticks to
> .behavior, and we're grateful for that.
>
> Don't take his shit seriously. He likes to scream
> at imaginary demons.
>
> Lynn K.
>
> From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
> Subject: Re: Questions on rehabilitation was Re: To Dogman
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
> Date: 1999/11/10
>
> Marilyn Rammell wrote:
>
> > It certainly does appear that your world
> > has harsher realities - you say that for
> > every 'one' dog you take into your program,
> > 'FIVE' others die!!!
>
> <snip>
>
> > Confrontational methods 'to turn a dog around'
> > with these dogs would be far from beneficial.
>
> Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
> just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
> we need to crate train a dog immediately because
> they are usually in need of medical care and they
> are in foster homes with other dogs.
>
> It's a safety necessity.
>
> > Can you please explain "spending months building
> > the dog from the ground up" What method do you
> > use that takes months?
>
> Every dog is different, and their problems are
> different, and many take time. We just had a
> very fearful 4 month old that we didn't put up
> for adoption for 6 weeks because it took that
> long to build her confidence.
>
> I've got an older foster now - dog aggressive,
> starved to the point of muscle loss and food
> protective, dominant, an escape artist and
> roamer, totally untrained.
>
> I'd love to be able to have 4 months to turn
> him into the spectacular dog I know he can
> be.
>
> But I don't have the luxury of that time.
>
> Instead I've had to do what I can in 2 weeks.
>
> That means correcting him for issuing fight
> challenges rather than careful desensitization,
> confronting him about food protection rather
> than letting it subside naturally, and minimal
> obedience training limited to housebreaking,
> cratetraining, allowing himself to be handled,
> sit, down, stay, and leash manners.
>
> And carefully placing him in a home I feel
> can do the rest that needs to be done.
>
> (He goes to that home on Sunday.)
>
> > I too would like the answers to Anonymous's questions (below)
>
> I didn't answer those because I think that
> Anon. post was Jerry Howe.
>
> Briefly, I didn't refer to Koehler and didn't
> mean Koehler when I used the term
> "confrontational".
>
> Using compulsion may have been a more
> accurate way to put it.
>
> It is simply a necessity, rather than a choice.
>
> For example, the newly neutered dog-aggressive
> foster I described above. I'd prefer to give him
> time to heal, keep him away from other dogs,
> then carefully monitor interactions, positively
> reinforcing him for non-reaction.
>
> But he had to come into my home, with 2
> other dogs, immediately from the shelter
> and surgery.
>
> A small enough home that keeping dogs
> competely separated is impossible. So
> I had to do things like put him on a tiedown
> as my own dogs moved through the room
> and verbally correct him when he challenged them.
>
> Do I think the dog is damaged by it?
>
> Not really.
>
> It isn't ideal, but he's alive and will make a decent pet.
>
> Lynn K.
>
> "Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
> Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
> lynn.
>
> lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
> For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
> pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
> When he barks, use the line for a correction.
>
> - if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
>
> Lynn K.
>
> "I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
> one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
> schedules and duties causes a great deal of
> scheduling overhead.
>
> And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
> volunteers get the meaningful experience that
> they work for.
>
> Someone has to be responsible for that
> Volunteer Program, and it is best done
> by a non-volunteer."
>
> Lynn K.
> ---------------------------------
>
> "I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
> every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
> effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
> older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.
>
> Should I have refused to groom them?
>
> Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
> had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
>
> Lynn K.
>
>
> Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
> news:<04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews>...
>
> > >> Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
> > >> quotes are true.
> > >> In the posts below you take responsibility for
> > >> making those calls.
> > >> In your post above, you state you do not
> > >> make those calls.
> > >>Which one is it?
>
> ------------------------------------------
>
> WORDS OF WISDOM
> from our own Lynn Kosmakos
> 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day
> For Twenty Years
>
> I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
>
> "I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-depression)
> requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every
> day.
>
> I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn
> more, while happily sharing pertinent information
> I have learned. But if I were ever to post such sh*t,
> I would hope that every other reader of this group
> would be rightfully outraged."
>
> "Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
> the right to participate in by observing the
> easily understood rules and contributing to in
> constructive ways."
>
> Lynn K.
>
> -----------------------------------------
>
> "It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
> - she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
> a comment she made about scarey side effects of
> Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
> I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
> any side effect is far less frightening than the
> very real dangers of life without it."
>
> Lynn K.
> -----------------------------------------
>
> "Only the unenlightened speak of wisdom and right action
> as separate, not the wise. If any man knows one, he
> enjoys the fruit of both. The level which is reached by
> wisdom is attained through right action as well. He who
> perceives that the two are one knows the truth."
>
> "Even the wise man acts in character with his nature,
> indeed all creatures act according to their natures.
> What is the use of compulsion then? The love and
> hate which are aroused by the objects of sense arise
> from Nature, do not yield to them. They only obstruct
> the path." Bhagavad Gita, adapted by Krishna with
> permission from His FREE copy of my FREE Wits'
> End Dog Training Method manual.
>
> Force training JERRYIZES dogs, and GETS THEM DEAD.
>
>
> From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
> Subject: Re: ABSURDITY-TO-INSANITY
> Date: 1999/05/22
>
> Ruth Hoffman wrote:
>
> > By the way, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think
> > I learned about shake cans from Koehler's book.
>
> Ruth, I just checked the basic book & didn't find it
> there. I doubt if he would have it in the upper level
> books, but I didn't check.
>
> However, I did come across a Koehler quote that
> I really like, that really points out what is missing
> from Jerry's approach:
>
> "Remember this - The decision to "do right" that
> most helps a dog's character is the decision that
> he makes himself."
>
> By never holding a dog accountable for his actions
> and always distracting the dog, rather than giving
> him the opportunity to offer an acceptable response,
> Jerry never lets the dog make a decision.
>
> Lynn K.
>
> "Speech is a mirror of the soul: as a man speaks,
> so is he." Publilius Syrus, First century B.C., Maxim 1073
>
> "We are what we do."
>
> From: Amy Dahl (amy@oakhillkennel.com)
> Subject: Re: I read rec.pets.dogs.behavior yesterday. Yikes!
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.breeds
> Date: 2001-01-08 03:33:05 PST
>
> Pamela Noelle Powell wrote:
> >
> > You would go with those who DON'T use physical force.
> > You'll get much more from a dog if you train with love and
> > kindness. Yes, you can train a dog with physical force,
> > you can ear pinch train, you can train with spiked collars
> > etc., and eventually the dog will do your bidding, but only
> > because its terrified and doesn't want the pain any longer.
>
> Pam and Jay,
>
> Eamil me if you'd like to visit sometime and see some dogs that
> will open your eyes. I don't claim everyone has to train my
way,
> but my dogs are trained with force, and ear pinches, and they
are
> as eager, enthusiastic, confident, etc. as can be. You will be
> able to see it. There is no fear involved, and there is nothing
> about physical methods that is incompatible with love and
> kindness.
>
> lying frosty dahl.
>
> From: Lynn K. (javagsd@yahoo.com)
> Subject: Re: "Alpha Rolling" DEBUNKED by Ian Dunbar
> Date: 2004-02-22 14:12:07 PST
>
> > But modern, well-educated trainers have
> > come to accept that physical dominance
> > over the dog is not a good idea under any
> > circumstances short of an emergency.
>
> Right. It's unsafe, misunderstood, ill-timed,
> and too much, too late. That doesn't mean
> that it can't be effective.
>
> Lynn K.
>
> > The Monks' books are particularly bad
> > on the subject of pack dynamics and
> > dominance. Remember
>
> "Others to avoid: Kevin Behan, C.W. Meisterfeld,
> Jan F??? "The DogWhisperer", anything
> published by TPH," Lynn K.
>
> From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
> Subject: Re: need your help - lab is becoming dominant
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
> Date: 1999/12/27
>
> Beth Fleischer wrote:
>
> > I would seriously suggest buying this book! Great book!
>
> "How to Be Your Dog's Best Friend" by the
> Monks (actually Job Michael Evans) is a
> decent book, but not a great book.
>
> And you should know that they later repudiated
> the alpha roll advise.
>
> As well they should have. It was rotten advise.
>
> Lynn K.
>
> From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
> Subject: Re: Help?!
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
> Date: 1999/05/22
>
> Jerry Howe wrote:
>
> > That's a fact. The monks are harsh, heavy
> > handed louts. The information in their books
> > is outdated.
> > No intelligent dog lover would endorse them.
>
> I didn't see where Diane mentioned the Monks.
>
> She referred to Job Michael Evans, who left the
> monastery. There's a hell of a lot of difference
> between the late Evans and the Monks, and I
> know that Diane knows that difference.
>
> Apparently you don't.
>
> Lynn K.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --------------
>
> > that your dog has been selectively bred
> > for generations to cooperate with humans.
>
> From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
> Subject: Re: Help! (The day after)
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
> Date: 2000-12-01 14:18:59 PST
>
> Elaine Gallant wrote:
>
> > Re-read the statement. It doesn't say the
> > strongest is the more dominant.
> > The more dominant one gets their way.
>
> There are a whole lot of interactions that have
> nothing to do with power plays.
>
> Most of them, in fact.
>
> And that's one of the biggest problems with
> blind adherence to pack theories - they just
> don't apply to a lot of situations.
>
> Lynn K.
>
> You're full of crap. You can't even teach
> someWON HOWE to HOWEsbreak their
> puppy withHOWET SEEIN IT:
>
> From: Jerry Howe (jhowe@cfl.rr.com)
> Subject: Re: When gentle training fails...
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
> Date: 2000/01/14
>
> "Lynn Kosmakos" <lkosmakos@home.com> wrote in message
> news:387ED11F.FA18A214@home.com...
> >
> >
> > Audrey wrote:
> > >
> > > My brother has a new puppy. He's read all
> > > the literature on gentle training for housebreaking.
> > > Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be working.
> > >They can't seem to get Toby to stop going to the
> > > bathroom on the floor.
> >
> > Unfortunately, nobody can tell why they're having
> > trouble without a bit more description of what they
> > are doing.
> >
> > Lynn K.


From: Lynn K. (javagsd@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Free Feeding (Was Re: Repeating Commands)
Date: 2001-07-17 21:59:53 PST
d*6@aol.com (DogStar716) wrote in message
news:<20010717101836.26725.00004349@ng-mi1.aol.com>...

> For example, if one was to use the dogs regular
> kibble as a motivator in class, the dog will probably
> not be as motivated as he would be if a different type
> of treat was offered (say, a piece of hotdog).

Not necessarily. Remember that there is value added
to the treat by virtue of getting it from the handler as a
reward.

That's the reason I handfed Java for a week.

To add value to the food.

It isn't just another piece of kibble when it
comes from Mom as a reward.

Lynn K.

From: Lynn K. (javagsd@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Kali gets her CDX!
Date: 2003-10-26 13:49:37 PST

"KrisHur" <kris_brock@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<vpnufuisi9pve2@corp.supernews.com>...> THANKS!

You deserve it! You have my empathy on the heeling
problem. 2 of 29 qualified in Open A & B this morning
at Sacramento - ring fouled overnight by conformation
people exercising their dogs.

A Borzoi vomited on the spot, a Rottie peed on it, and
almost every other dog (including Java) dropped their
nose to the spot and started tracking.

ARRRGH!

Lynn K.

"Just as he thinks my decision not to put a
dog that faded in the heat into active SAR
duty was somehow questionable."

"my decision to not continue with an
unmotivated dog and potentially risk
lives is hardly something I view as a failure.

So, does your dog BURN HOWET in the
heat on accHOWENT of he's SO HIGHLY
MOTIVATED or is he UNTRAINED?



>
> From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
> Subject: Re: Fear-based Aggression
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
> Date: 2000-11-23 22:58:32 PST
>
> Elaine Gallant wrote:
>
> > >But even if there is no physical evidence
> > >of abuse, just the dog's reaction to the
> > >approach of a strange human, how could
> > >you read this as anything except fear?
> >
> > Who knows? I'm not a mind reader and neither are you.
> >
> > Stop projecting.
>
> Uhm, it's my job to know when a dog is afraid :-)
>
> And it doesn't take mind reading to do that.
>
> Dogs are very happy to tell us what they are feeling.
>
> Lynn K.
>
> From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
> Subject: Re: A.K.C. PROHIBITS USE OF
> Date: 1999/05/21
>
> Ron Hardin wrote:
> >
> > Koehler's idea of handling a dog involves a
> > dog working at liberty.
>
> Absolutely, the most basic concept of Koehler's
> approach is recognition of the fact that the dog
> always has a choice.
>
> Training is really teaching the dog what choices
> get rewarded, and a correction is a signal to make
> a different choice.
>
> Learning the choices the handler wants is what
> frees the dog.
>
> Lynn K.
>
> > He will choose to do so, given the opportunity.
>
> From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
> Subject: Re: this group
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
> Date: 2000/08/06
>
> De Ceuster Peter wrote:
>
> > you prob aren't going to change people who
> > do slap their dogs, if this continues already
> > for such a long time i don't know who you
> > people are
>
> Peter, what you have to realize it that you can't
> form any opinionat all about people or their training
> methods based upon Jerry's rants.
>
> I know a number of the people he attacks personally,
> or by reputation, and his accusations are simply false.
>
> Personally, I'm not a Koehler trainer,
> I don't use a choke chain, and I don't
> believe a dog learns anything by being
> hung.
>
> But that's not what Jerry would have people believe :-)
>
> Lynn K.
>
> > Confrontation denies him that opportunity
> > and is a pure threat.
>
> From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
> Subject: Re: Dog's play out of control
> View: Complete Thread (6 articles)
> Original Format
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
> Date: 1999/10/13
>
>
> mjgerard@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > Now every time our puppy gets in our bed
> > he initiates play with my husband
>
> Common problem. All too often, dogs learn that they
> can dictate the agenda and start to see their owners as
> the source of entertainment.
>
> One way to get a hold on this is to teach the dog
> to "settle" and to learn how to be quiet and patient
> when in the presence of the owner.
>
> There are lots of good instructions on teaching
> a dog to settle, by using long stokes along their
> sides and a crooning voice, with a "no" everytime
> they jump up or grab at hands,etc..
>
> The Monks of New Skete and Brian Kilcommons'
> books describe it well. Additionally, I like to have
> a dog lay at my feet for 30-60 minutes daily, by
> sitting on their leash while I watch tv, read, or am
> on the computer.
>
> The dog soonlearns that he's going to be there
> for a while, so he might as well relax and wait
> for you to decide it's time to play.
>
> Lynn K.
>
> > He has no choice to escalate his warnings
> > under increasing pressure/confrontation.
>
> From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
> Subject: Re: HOWE, ABOUT RESCUE
> Date: 2000-10-02 21:43:11 PST
>
> Ron Hardin wrote:
> >
> > It's life, Cindy. What the dog has a right to.
> >
> > ``Every living creature has a right to the
> > consequences of his actions.'' Koehler.
> >
> >Understand that and Koehler will become clear.
>
> Oh.My.God. Do you really not understand
> that being homeless is not an action, but a
> condition?
>
> Comparing roadkill risk to Koehler on corrections
> is nonsensical. I could quote Koehler back to you
> on appropriate correction levels, but it still wouldn't
> be a valid analogy.
>
> Lynn K.
>
> > When a GSD doesn't immediately cooperate,
> > it is usually because he doesn't understand
> > what is being asked of him.
>
> From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
> Subject: Re: Help--Need constructive advice!
> Date: 2000-12-12 23:56:46 PST
>
> Geoff, none of us can tell you what is going
> on with Dido given the limited description of
> her behavior.
>
> Unpredictable with strangers and tense and
> snippy really doesn't tell us whether she's
> being protective, territorial, possessive,
> frightened, etc..
>
> In fact, we can't really tell without seeing her in person.
>
> And that's the best advice I can give you.
>
> Get referrals to a good trainer/behaviorist
> who can observe her in the home situation.
>
> People like vets and friends really aren't
> qualified to deal with behavior problems.
>
> With a baby on the way you really can't
> afford the risk of not getting expert advice.
>
> Lynn K.
>
> > That's where training fits in.
>
> From: Jerry Howe (jhowe@cfl.rr.com)
> Subject: Re: Help--Need constructive advice!
> Date: 2000-12-13 03:08:57 PST
>
> Hello lyinglynn,
>
> "Lynn Kosmakos" <lkosmakos@home.com>
> wrote in message news:3A372B2A.9A36644C@home.com...
> >
> > Geoff, none of us can tell you what is going
> > on with Dido given the limited description of
> > her behavior.
>
> What limited? The dog occasionally growls
> and snaps at them when disturbed, and is
> aggressive towards strangers.
>
> > Unpredictable with strangers
>
> No. He's PREDICTABLE.
>
> > and tense and snippy
>
> O.K. NOW you know what's the matter.
>
> The dog needs to learn to relax.
>
> > really doesn't tell us whether she's being
> > protective, territorial, possessive, frightened, etc..
>
> What the hell difference does that make?
>
> The dog snaps when disturbed suddenly,
> and doesn't trust strangers.
>
> > In fact, we can't really tell without seeing her in person.
>
> Can't tell WHAT???
>
> What KIND of aggression the dog has?
>
> Does that mean you're gonna HANG the
> dog any differently? HANGING the dog is
> what koehler would have them do.
>
> "I LOVE KOEHLER." Your words.
>
> That's the treatment in the koehler book.
>
> > And that's the best advice I can give you.
>
> You HURT dogs to train them. You think
> THAT sounds like someone who's got
> lots of good advice???
>
> > Get referrals to a good trainer/behaviorist
> > who can observe her in the home situation.
>
> You mean someone like yourself? Trainers
> who need to SEE behaviors are incompetent,
> as are trainers who jerk and choke and shock
> dogs and twist and pinch their ears and toes.
>
> BUT you only do those things when you
> PROOF a dog, HUNH?
>
> > People like vets and friends really aren't
> > qualified to deal with behavior problems.
>
> Right. But some lying, dog abusing coward
> like you is gonna jerk and choke the dog for
> them???
>
> And take a pocketfull of money.
>
> And then tell them to kill the dog,
> that they dun everything right???
>
> The dog is 99% good, but we got to
> KILL that one percent TO BE FAIR?
>
> And then we can all pass around the
> crying towel and talk about BAD BREEDING.
>
> > With a baby on the way you really
> > can't afford the risk of not getting
> > expert advice.
>
> There's less than 10% chance of finding
> a competent trainer or behaviorist.
>
> Most of them use the nilif, crating, and
> leash and choke collar corrections, like
> YOU do.
>
> > Lynn K.
>
> And you kill dogs you can't intimidate into
> subordinating themselves to your AUTHORITY.
>
> Your pal, Jerry "The Phony," Howe.
>
> P.S. For the record, you are a proven liar and dog abuser. j;~}
>
> > Not only does the dog understand more, he
> > also gains trust and confidence through the
> > training process.
>
> From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
> Subject: Re: whining problem
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
> Date: 2000-12-10 21:04:33 PST
>
> John Doe wrote:
>
> > He seems to know what the word no
> > means, but I suspect when I say no,
> > he simply doesn't realize he is whining,
>
> Yep - most dogs have no clue when they
> are whining. It's simply stress or excitement
> being shed through their mouths, not a
> conscious act.
>
> Enjoy your walks. The whining will fade.
>
> Lynn K.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --------------
>
> > My recommendation is to get
> > involved in training with this dog.
>
> From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
> Subject: Re: Dog will not stay in yard!
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
> Date: 2000-12-10 20:52:46 PST
>
> Lacey Loe wrote:
> >
> > how do we keep him from wanting to
> > get out of the yard?
>
> You cannot teach a dog to not want something,
> any more than you can teach a human not to
> want something.
>
> What you can do is prevent the dog from getting
> what he wants by dog proofing the fencing, or
> deny his opportunity to want it by keeping him
> elsewhere than in the yard alone.
>
> Lynn K.
>
> From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
> Subject: Re: electric fence info?
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
> Date: 2000-11-21 00:39:11 PST
>
> Mark Messersmith wrote:
> >
> > We have a backyard that is completely fenced
> > except for an eight foot span that seperates our
> > yard from my parent's yard. We do not want to
> > fence this span, as we use it all the time for the kids
>
> An electronic fence sounds like a pretty good solution
> to this situation. I assume that your parents' yard is
> also fenced on 3 sides so that no other dogs could
> wander into the combined back yards.
>
> Lynn K.
>
> "misty" <Momisty@webtv.net>
> wrote in message
>
> news:16990-3CAB1F8C-1@storefull-
> 2293.public.lawson.webtv.net...
>
> > I don't now whether Peach is dead or alive.
> > I do know she's not here with us. I really can't
> > blame anyone here for her loss. I'm the one
> > who ignored your advice.
> >
> > I did it because of how you write/wrote.
> > I was unwilling to accept the idea
> > that my using a shock collar could have
> > any bearing on Peach not wanting to stay
> > home.
> >
> > Up until I started using it my main concern
> > had been keeping my dogs in their own yard.
> >
> > Once I started using the e-fence...well,
> > then my concern became how to keep
> > them from running off for days on end.
> >
> > I lost valuable training time becoming
> > embroiled in the anti-shock debate and
> > the "Jerry sux" tirades.
> >
> > I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in
> > the world now <g> A Wits End> Trained dog,
> > one who is completely housetrained,
> > doesn't chew up stuff, stays in the yard,
> > and doesn't bark all the time.
> >
> > IOW a great companion and friend.
> >
> > Thanks Jerry!
>
> =====================
>
> "misty" <Momisty@webtv.net>
> wrote in message
>
news:6946-3B6337A1-329@storefull-233.iap.bryant.webtv.net
>
> > We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this
> > Spring. Two dogs, two collars We now have
> > one dog and no collars.
> >
> > Peach and Zelda would run thru
> > the fence, not want to come back in the yard
> > and would run for days.
> >
> > The last time, Peach didn't come back home.
> >
> > I used the Wit's End Training Manual to
> > learn how to train my dog. She is now
> > border trained. A few minutes each day
> > reinforces her desire to stay in the yard.
> >
> > She no longer runs out into the road, I
> > can stop her from chasing cats and she
> > no longer cringes when we walk around
> > the yard.
> >
> > I can not say loud or long enough how
> > much I hate the e-fence and its collars.
> >
> > If you can't get a regular fence
> > then you need to train your dog. I will never
> > rely on an electronic collar to keep my dog in
> > our yard again.
> >
> > The price was too high:-(
> > ~misty
>
> ============
>
> From: Paul B (NOSPAMpaul_bousie@clear.net.nz)
> Subject: Re: Fence Jumping
>
> Date: 2000-09-29 04:33:37 PST
>
> Been well experienced in dogs escaping from our
> yard I know exactly the frustration you are going
> through. Sam used to jump over the fence so I
> made it higher then we got Roz and she went
> under it, through it and climbed over it.
>
> I've decided there are only 2 ways to stop the escaping,
> 1 is to have an escape proof fence, the other to train the
> dogs not to want to escape.
>
> I suppose a third method is to keep them
> inside but I don't consider that a solution.
>
> Making the fence escape proof can be almost impossible
> if the dog is determined, to stop it climbing over as yours
> is doing put an extension on top of the fence that angles
> inwards at about 30-45 degrees. Never use chicken wire
> as the dogs tear through that like paper.
>
> The only training method to prevent this I can recall is
> Jerry's technique, essentially it involves walking around the
> perimeter of the fenced area with the dog and using sound
> distractions and praise to teach the dog it's boundary.
>
> I have had partial success with it (i.e. I have deterred Roz
> from escaping from various points along the fence) but then
> again I haven't really followed it through completely.
>
> One last glimmer of hope, as the dog gets older it may
> become more settled, Sam never escapes now although
> he's quite capable of getting out, he 2.5 years old and
> seemed to settle at about 2. So there you are, only 1.5
> years of escaping left!!!
>
> Paul.
>
>
> From: Nevyn (greatdane@badmama.com.au)
> Subject: Re: radio fence
> Date: 2003-11-05 04:17:45 PST
>
> Hi folks,
>
> In my opinion the use of a radioshock fence is a waste of
> time, effort or money. I can understand it if you a rich snob
> who cares nothing about their dogs safey or behaviours.
>
> At work I boundary train all the dogs to the bricked area
> (Four kennels with 26 cages with 1 dog in each, 1 services
> building and 2 catterys which is surrounded by scrubland to
> the east and woodlands to the north and a lake to the west).
>
> This works well, because then when people buy them the dogs
> are easier to boundary train to a door or fence or yard.
>
> However on a personal note, my two shelter mutts, who I
> trained using the WITS END DOG MANUAL available at
> www.doggydoright.com will not go past the back door, or the
> back gate or the front gate without permission.
>
> And it is nice, for when you are having a party, you can leave
> your gates open for people, and your dogs won't be the least
> concerned.
>
> I find this better then spending your well earned money on a
> piece of junk Why not use it to invest in a horse? Or a new
> house? Make a nice aquarium? Build a nursery for a child?
>
> Save your money. Train your dog. Please. -- Thankyou,
> Nevyn
>
> Nevyn E.D. Veterinary Nurse & Animal Trainer
> greatdane@badmama.com.au
> "You can judge a man's heart by his treatment
> of animals"
> __________________________________
>
>
> "Nevyn" <greatdane@badmama.com.au> wrote in message
> news:1061695905.896739@grimiore.conceptual.net.au...
>
> HOWEDY Group,
>
> Here some SUCCESS STORIES ive had using
> JERRY'S MANUAL
>
> 1) My dogz, two bitches - Vicious, barking,
> aggressive, pulled on leash, wanted to kill
> any dogs they saw, fought between each other.
>
> TWO WEEKS using Jerry's manual, they
> were calm, friends, my companions.
>
> 2) ADDED A BEAGLE PUPPY (male) to my "PACK", the
> girls had -NO PROBLEMS- with him from the moment I
> dropped him by their noses.
>
> 3) My FRIENDS dogs 2 MALES barking and jumping
> at the fence all night 3 DAYS TRAINING WITH JERRY'S
> MANUAL they were CALMED AND HAVEN'T BARKED ONCE!
>
> Added a NEW MALE DOG (2 yrs old) AND
> WELCOMED HIM WITH NO WUCKAS !
>
> 4) POODLE that ATE food from the KITCHEN BENCH -
> lock him in a box? NO! USE JERRYS MANUAL! 4 DAYS
> AND HES NEVER DONE IT SINCE!
>
> 5) ABUSED DOGS AT THE SHELTER I WORK AT -
> HAD TO BE FED WITH A BUCKET ON A STICK -
> ONE WEEK ON JERRYS MANUAL, THE SUPERVISOR
> TOLD ME TO PUT THEM IN THE PUBLIC KENNELS
> FOR SALE !
>
> Quite amazing to - I thought they were just dull coloured
> dogs, but after I had removed the fear and anxiety their
> hairs coloured up amazingly.
>
> 6) STAFFY FEMALE who would NOT DROP HER
> BALL! She carried it around all day and night - 3
> DAYS on jerrys MANUAL and she now DROPS
> it when u ASK her to!
>
> BWHWHAHAHAHAAHA !!!!
>
> Nevyn
>
> > While you are doing so, stop and think
> > about how you've explained to him what
> > you want if he is resistant.
>
> From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
> Subject: Re: CONFUSED???!!! = Forget the lies of Jerry
> Howe... Here is what people REALLY say about the Kohler
> Method Of Dog Training (long)
> Date: 2000-11-02 16:20:14 PST
>
> Marilyn wrote:
>
> > These people agree with this??????
> > then, shame on them!
> >
> > Koehler On Correcting The Housebreaking Backslider.
> >
> > "If the punishment is not severe enough, some of these
> > "backsliders" will think they're winning and will continue
> > to mess in the house. An indelible impression can
> > sometimes be made by giving the dog a hard spanking of
>
> Who agrees with it? I don't know anyone.
>
> Lynn K.
>
> "Handsome Jack Morrison" aka dogman
> <handsomemorrison@thedetonatorearthlink.net> wrote in
> <message
> news:spb3ivgh7prvq9omhka0bcif0tfknv6oop@4ax.com...
> > On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:52:18 -0400, "Krishur"
> > <kris_brock@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Good books huh?
> >
> > Absolutely. Some are, in fact, classics.
> >
> > >Which idea was your favorite, the one where they
> > >tell you to alpha roll a "dominant" dog,
> >
> > There's nothing inherently wrong with rolling a dog
> > (i.e., it *can* and *does* work in *some*
> > situations). Unfortunately, most people either do it
> > incorrectly, do it at the wrong time, etc.
> >
> > >or where they tell you that you didn't hit him hard
> > >enough if he doesn't yelp or approaches you within
> > >5 minutes of his punishment?
> >
> > If physical discipline is deemed necessary (after
> > careful evaluation), it's much more cruel not to get
> > it over with quickly than it is to do it
> > incrementally and half-heartedly, which usually only
> > invites the need for even more discipline.
> >
> > >Maybe you liked when they recommend these beatings
> > >for housebreaking accidents, chewing/destructive
> > >behavior, stealing, trying to get on your bed
> > >at night and dog on dog aggression.
> >
> > At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
> > dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
> > *not* constitute a "beating."
> >
> > I'm sorry if you don't agree.
> >
> > And each of those behavior "problems" needs to be
> > looked at in its proper context.
> >
> > A quote from the Monks:
> >
> > "We repeat, these situations may merit physical
> > discipline. Since no book can pretend to analyze
> > every individual dog and situation, we feel
> > obligated to emphasize from the outset that
> > discipline is never an arbitrary training technique
> > to be applied to each and every dog for all offenses.
> >
> > We do, however, believe that physical and verbal
> > discipline can be an effective technique.
> >
> > The best policy if you experience any of the above
> > problems is to consult a qualified trainer or
> > veterinarian for evaluation of your individual
> > situation....
> >
> > "If discipline is decided upon as a training
> > technique, it should be the proper technique. We
> > feel we have developed several methods that depend
> > less on violent physical force than timing, a flair
> > for drama, and the element of surprise.
> >
> > We feel an obligation, as responsible trainers, to
> > map out these methods, rather than simply skip
> > the topic because it is unpleasant. Dog owners
> > want to know what to do."
> >
> > In other words, physical discipline is reserved for
> > those serious, special occasions when other methods
> > have failed.
> >
> > For example, they do not recommend using physical
> > discipline for *routine* housebreaking chores --
> > only on those rare occasions when an already
> > reliably housebroken dog is (after careful
> > evaluation) deemed to be soiling the house on
> > purpose, backsliding, etc.
> >
> > I'll give you an actual example. Years ago, an
> > adult dog was brought to me as an *incurable*
> > house-soiler. It was either get the dog reliably
> > housetrained or the dog was going on a one way trip
> > to the pound. Being the kind, compassionate trainer
> > that I am, I was prepared to do whatever it took to
> > get this dog house-trained and save his life.
> >
> > After several weeks of more or less traditional
> > training, and to poor result, I brought out the big
> > guns -- physical and verbal discipline.
> >
> > Whenever the dog soiled the house (no, you
> > don't even have to catch him in the act), I
> > immediately (but very calmly) tossed a leash
> > on his collar, dragged him to the scene of the
> > crime, and (using a large chair as a prop)
> > tethered him to the leg of the chair, with his
> > nose about two inches away from the poop.
> >
> > After a couple of swats on the rump, some
> > loud vocalizing, and a wait of about 20 minutes,
> > I'd release the dog and then ignore him for a while.
> >
> > I had to repeat this process *three* times, I think --
> > and the house-soiling miraculously stopped. The dog
> > went home to enjoy a long and contented life with
> > his original owners, and I got to feel good about
> > myself.
> >
> > So, yes, the Monk's books are good ones. Even for
> > novices.
> >
> > Yup, that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.
> >
> > -- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the
> > detonator to reply via e-mail
>
>
> Koehler On Correcting The Housebreaking
> Backslider.
>
> "If the punishment is not severe enough, some of
> these "backsliders" will think they're winning and
> will continue to mess in the house.
>
> An indelible impression can sometimes be
> made by giving the dog a hard spanking of long
> duration, then leaving him tied by the mess he's
> made so you can come back at twenty minute
> intervals and punish him again for the same
> thing. (Dogs are REALLY stupid. J.H.)
>
> In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
> disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
> light spanking that some owners seem to think is
> adequate punishment. It will be better for your dog,
> as well as the house, if you really pour it on him."
>
> "Housebreaking Problems:
>
> "The Koehler Method of Dog Training"
> Howell Book House, 1996"
>
> Occasionally, there is a pup who seems determined to
> relieve himself inside the house, regardless of how
> often he has the opportunity to go outside. This dog
> may require punishment.
>
> Make certain he is equipped with a collar
> and piece of line so he can't avoid correction.
>
> When you discover a mess, move in fast, take him to
> the place of his error, and hold his head close enough
> so that he associates his error with the punishment.
>
> Punish him by spanking him with a light strap or
> switch. Either one is better than a folded newspaper.
>
> It is important to your future relationship that you
> do not rush at him and start swinging before you get
> hold of him.
>
> When he's been spanked, take him outside.
> Chances are, if you are careful in your feeding
> and close observation, you will not have to do
> much punishing.
>
> Be consistent in your handling.
>
> To have a pup almost house-broken and then force
> him to commit an error by not providing an opportunity
> to go outside is very unfair. Careful planning will
> make your job easier.
>
> The same general techniques of housebreaking
> apply to grown dogs that are inexperienced in the
> house.
>
> For the grown dog who was reliable in the house
> and then backslides, the method of correction
> differs somewhat.
>
> In this group of "backsliders" we have the
> "revenge piddler." This dog protests being alone by
> messing on the floor and often in the middle of a bed.
>
> The first step of correction is to confine the dog
> closely in a part of the house when you go away, so
> that he is constantly reminded of his obligation.
>
> The fact that he once was reliable in the house is
> proof that the dog knows right from wrong, and it
> leaves you no other course than to punish him
> sufficiently to convince him that the satisfaction of
> his wrongdoing is not worth the consequences.
>
> If the punishment is not severe enough, some of
> these "backsliders" will think they're winning and
> will continue to mess in the house.
>
> An indelible impression can sometimes be made
> by giving the dog a hard spanking of long duration,
> then leaving him tied by the mess he's made so you
> can come back at twenty minute intervals and
> punish him again for the same thing.
>
> In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
> disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
> light spanking that some owners seem to think is
> adequate punishment.
>
> It will be better for your dog, as well as the house,
> if you really pour it on him.
>
> "Handsome Jack Morrison"
> <handsomemorrison@thedetonatorearthlink.net> wrote in
> <message
> news:a236iv0ngp58gv9jmi818kbmk928rjcokq@4ax.com...
> > On 26 Jul 2003 22:14:29 GMT, dogstar716@aol.com
> > (DogStar716)
> wrote:
> >
> > >>>Never mind dogman :)
> > >>
> > >>You too? Some folks just never learn.
> > >
> > >Uh huh :)
> >
> > One of the signs of mental illness is to say "Uh
> > huh" a lot.
> >
> > >>PS: If the "trainer" you were talking about isn't
> > >>on this list, he (or she) is NOT an approved
> > >>Koehler trainer, no matter how loud you scream
> > >>otherwise.
> > >
> > >May I laugh again? LOL! One doesn't need to be on
> > >a list to use Koehlers methods or teach his
> > >methods.
> >
> > Let me be among the first (apparently) to tell you
> > that not every trainer who uses a leash is a
> > *Koehler* trainer.
> >
> > Sheesh.
> >
> > This person may call herself a Koehler trainer, but
> > if she's hanging 12 week old puppies, she's about as
> > far from a Koehler trainer as a dog trainer can
> > possibly be.
> >
> > Again, this is just your IGNORANCE showing.
> >
> > I can call myself a devout Christian, but if I'm not
> > adhering to the doctrine, I'm something else.
> >
> > >>http://www.koehlerdogtraining.com/patoflearn.html
> > >Sorry, the very first sentences make me aware that
> > >whoever wrote it knows nothing about PR based
> > >training:
> > >
> > >"Amidst the current (and politically correct) trend
> > >in Positive Reinforcement Only training systems"
> > >
> > >You cannot use PR only.
> >
> > Au contraire. Many, many posters to r.p.d.b. (and
> > many other places as well) *claim* that they use
> > nothing but R. You know, the PPers.
> >
> > And they do it quite loudly, too.
> >
> > Surely you aren't blind (and deaf), as well as
> > ignorant?
> >
> > Those are hard handicaps to overcome, Dogstar.
> >
> > >And if you knew anything about PR BASED training,
> > >you would realize that. It's not all cookies and
> > >babytalk.
> >
> > There is no stronger supporter of R than Handsome
> > Jack Morrison, but I also use every behavioral tool
> > in my bag, including R-, P, and P-, because I know
> > that even R has its limits.
> >
> > You'd know that too, if you didn't have your head in
> > the sand.
> >
> > > But that seems to be the battle cry of the
> > > Koehler-ites.
> >
> > The Koehlerites have no battle cry.
> >
> > They have behaviorism on their side, and that's more
> > than enough.
> >
> > >I don't need instruction on how to give my dogs a
> > >proper leash correction as I do not rely on a leash
> > >to control or teach my dog.
> >
> > That may or may not be suitable for your needs, but
> > it's not suitable for the majority of dog owners,
> > especially since the advent of leash laws.
> >
> > Besides, after just a few weeks of proper Koehler
> > training, Koehler dogs likewise are no longer in
> > need of a leash.
> >
> > That you apparently don't know that, once again
> > shows me just how ignorant of anything to do with
> > Koehler you are.
> >
> > >My last two dogs have been trained offleash right
> > >from the start, using rewards for what I like, and
> > >nothing for what I don't like.
> >
> > Good for you, and if that level of training is good
> > enough for you, fine. But it's not good enough for
> > many of the rest of us.
> >
> > >Again, I'm not saying Koehler doesn't work.
> >
> > I really have no idea what you're saying anymore,
> > because you apparently know so damn little about
> > Koehler and behavioral principles in general that
> > it's hard to have an informed discussion with you.
> >
> > PS: It boggles my mind at how stupid you must be to
> > keep denying that those certain harsh methods are
> > only for LAST RESORT situations, intended only to
> > SAVE A DOG'S LIFE, even after I've repeatedly given
> > you direct *quotes* from Koehler's book saying just
> > that.
> >
> > It's like you don't even care how stupid people
> > think you are, or how devious you are, etc.
> >
> > That can't help your cause any. You'd think that
> > you'd at least want to *appear* to be honest, even
> > if you're not. -- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently
> > remove the detonator to reply via e-mail
>
> > Lynn K.
>
> From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
> Subject: Re: my new web site and long time, no see!
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
> Date: 1999/11/27
>
> Anonymous wrote:
> >
> > Miss Cindi's site is really 'Come read about
> > Dogman & Koehler & Ecollars' You must
> > think we're stupid Miss Cindi.
> >
> > Hope you're earning enough >>>>>
>
> Huh? Did you even go to Cindi's site?
>
> It's for her rescue organization.
>
> And Cindi is a full time student.
>
> You're out of your mind.
>
> Lynn K.
>
> From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
> Subject: Re: hitting your dog. Is it Dog Abuse?
> Date: 1999/07/20
>
> Robert Crim wrote:
> >
> > Every time he took a shit on the floor,
> > I just rubbed his nose in it (like the
> > Koehler book said, I guess)
>
> You guess wrong.
>
> Lynn K.
>
> From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
> Subject: Re: That type of thinking kills dogs
> Date: 1999/05/18
>
> Ron Hardin wrote:
>
> > If you're prepared to be impressed by
> > seriousness in a dog, Koehler is for you.
>
> Ron, your whole post was incredibly good.
>
> It resonated with appreciation for honest working dogs.
>
> I've begun to think that the bond and partnership
> that comes from working with a dog is something
> that has to be experienced and felt.
>
> It cannot be explained and someone who is
> limited to begging, cajoling, bribery and hoping
> will never experience it.
>
> Maybe that's really what is meant
> when we say "trust your dog".
>
> Lynn K.
>
> "Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
> Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
> lynn.
>
> lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
> For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
> pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
> When he barks, use the line for a correction.
>
> - if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
>
> Lynn K.
>
> "I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
> one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
> schedules and duties causes a great deal of
> scheduling overhead.
>
> And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
> volunteers get the meaningful experience that
> they work for.
>
> Someone has to be responsible for that
> Volunteer Program, and it is best done
> by a non-volunteer."
>
> Lynn K.
> ---------------------------------
>
> "I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
> every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
> effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
> older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.
>
> Should I have refused to groom them?
>
> Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
> had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
>
> Lynn K.
>
>
> Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
> news:<04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews>...
>
> > >> Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
> > >> quotes are true.
> >
> > >> In the posts below you take responsibility for
> > >> making those calls.
> >
> > >> In your post above, you state you do not
> > >> make those calls.
> >
> > >>Which one is it?
>
>
> From: Jerry Howe (jhowe2@bellsouth.net)
> Subject: That type of thinking kills dogs
> Date: 1999/05/18
>
> The eloquent way that Koehler rationalizes
> and justifies violence and brutality is the
> direct cause of many dogs being destroyed.
>
> I know, because I have to deal with them
> all of the time. People don't come to me
> and say, gee, jer, my dogs great, let's see
> how good we can make him.
>
> I specialize in problem dogs.
>
> They come to me because they've already
> F'd their pet up based on Koehler type of
> advice and while trying to get him straightened
> out, have gotten burned again by one or two
> or three more incompetent trainers that use
> the F'n Koehler method.
>
> When they get to me, they are at their Wits' End.
>
> Usually, their only hope is that I'll take the dog
> and find it a safe place to live, so they don't
> have to kill it.
>
> That's why I get disgusted with trainers like
> you. I usually get the dog back in the original
> home in two or three weeks, if the family is
> willing to give the dog another chance.
>
> Fortunately, I'm pretty convincing,
> I guarantee everything I do.
>
> That Koehler doesn't mention hanging for
> ordinary biters is not saying much. Especially
> because the dog would never have had an
> aggression problem, were it not for the harsh,
> abusive, cruel, methodology.
>
> The reference to "The Real "Hood" for professional
> trainer to handle the most extreme problem, a dog
> who regards "the most reasonable demands of
> elementary obedience as sufficient reason to attack
> his master"?
>
> Here's the scoop:
>
> What this brute calls "reasonable demands
> of elementary obedience" is in fact a systematic
> breaking of the dogs spirit, and any dog that won't
> break during the seven week abuse program, will turn.
>
> His method makes the dog turn on his handler
> out of self defense.
>
> Koehler is a monster, and birds of a feather, flock together.
>
> Sincerely,
> Jerry Howe,
> Wits' End Dog Training
>
> > gwen wrote:
> >
> > > I guess the main thing that is
> > > harsh is the hanging dog theory.
> > > Of course I am certain there
> > > are dogs that require this when
> > > all else fails.
> >
>
> lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn wrote:
>
> > But remember, the point of hanging a dog
> > is to stop a full-force attack on yourself!
> >
> > Koehler does NOT recommend hanging in
> > his section of dealing with the different types
> > of biters. His only mention of it is in a section
> > called "The Real "Hood"" for professional
> > trainer to handle the most extreme problem,
> > a dog who regards "the most reasonable
> > demands of elementary obedience as sufficient
> > reason to attack his master".
> >
> > Koehler's righteous outrage about well meaning
> > people who create these monsters is far more
> > eloquent that any words of mine could be :
> >
> > "Professional trainers often get these extreme
> > problems. Nearly always, the protest biter is the
> > handiwork of a person who, by avoiding situations
> > the dog might resent, has nurtured the seeds of
> > rebellion and then cultivated the resultant growth
> > with under-correction.
> >
> >
> > When these people reap their inevitable and
> > oftentimes painful harvest, they are ready to
> > avail themselves of the help of "the cruel
> > trainer" whose advice they may once have rejected
> > because it was incompatible with the sugary droolings
> > of mealy-mouthed columnists, breed-ring biddies, and
> > dog psychologists who, by the broken skin and broken
> > hearts their misinformation causes, can be proven
> > guilty of the greatest act of cruelty to animals since
> > the dawn of time." (page 52, The Koehler Method of Dog
> > Training)
> >
> > Oh Yeah - I LOVE Koehler.
> >
> > Lynn K
>
> NHOWE BACK INTO YOUR STRAIGHT JACKET.
>
> The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
>
>
> From: Marshall Dermer (dermer@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
> Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
> Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST
>
> >Paul B wrote:
> >> While the concept of shake cans is not new,
> >> I haven't read any other advice that says to
> >> praise immediately regardless of what the dog
> >> does next (the common advice is to praise once
> >> the dog is doing a desired behaviour or at least
> >> stopped the unwanted behaviour), this is unique
> >> to Jerry (and Marilyn) and from my own experiences
> >> is an important part of the process.
>
> And how do we know this aspect of his advice is right?
>
> Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
>
> His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.
>
> --Marshall
>
> =================
>
> "Marshall Dermer" <dermer@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu>
> wrote in message news:9ihtee$7ib$1@uwm.edu...
> >
> From: Paul B (NOSPAMpanders@zfree.co.nz)
> Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
> Date: 2001-07-12 00:13:28 PST
>
> Hello Marshall,
>
> The way I view it from my observation of how
> my dogs react is that the distraction interrupts
> the dogs thought, not for good or bad, just
> interrupts, the dog is therefore distracted for
> a second and then will either continue the
> behaviour or do something else.
>
> The praise reassures the dog that the sound
> distraction is not a threat or punishment,
> however if everytime the dog resumes a
> particular behaviour it's distracted immediately
> (and praised immediately for reassurance) then
> it quickly decides this behaviour is not fulfilling
> and it ceases.
>
> A dog will offer another behaviour in it's place
> and if that is acceptable to us then we let it be
> otherwise the distraction continues until a suitable
> alternate behaviour is offered.
>
> One example, Sam used to jump up on me
> when I arrived home, I would shake can to
> distract him right at the moment he was
> about to jump up, after about 4 repetitions
> he tried sitting and offering me his paw, of
> course this was fine so I let it be.
>
> While the concept of shake cans is not new,
> I haven't read any other advice that says to
> praise immediately regardless of what the
> dog does next (the common advice is to
> praise once the dog is doing a desired
> behaviour or at least stopped the unwanted
> behaviour), this is unique to Jerry (and Marilyn)
> and from my own experiences is an important
> part of the process.
>
> > Thanks Paul! He does recommend praising
> > a dog for barking, but he appears to recognize
> > that this may not work and so distraction
> > is recommended as a back up procedure:
>
> "Estel J. Hines" <ejhines@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:w86dna9lBfNZgbTdRVn-hA@comcast.com...
> >
> >>> Until i read the Jerry method of Bark reduction,
> >>> it went something like this with our 11 month old
> >>> puppy "Yoshi"
> >
> >>> Yoshi: Bark, bark,
> >
> >>> us: HUSH Youshi
> >
> >>> Yoshi Bark, bark......................
> >
> >>> us: Hush Youshi
> >
> >>> Yoshi BARK, BARK, BARK, .................................
> >
> >>> it stopped when Yoshi got tired barking
> >
> >>> We decided to try the Jerry method
> >
> >>> :Yoshi: BARK, BARK
> >
> >>> US: GOOD Yoshi, Good Boy, who is it?
> >
> >>> Yoshi Bark, Bark
> >
> >>> US: It's ok, good boy Yoshi, We know them
> >
> >>> Yosh without fail, now stops after we say that
> >
> >>> I must say, it is so much more fun, when we
> >>> can praise him, to deal with things like this
> >
> >>> Thanks Jerry
> >
> >>> ps: We are just starting to go thru the Jerry
> >>> Papers, and learn how to live with our son
> >>> "Yoshi", whom we love very much. --
> >
> >>> Best Regards,
> >>> Estel J. Hines
>
> ==============
>
> > There really is NOTHING new about the advice above!
>
> Nuthin EXXXCEPT HOWE IT'S DONE.
>
> Here's MOORE SCIENCE, professor SCRUFF SHAKE:
>
> "Leprechaun" <Leprechaun@attglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:m01Hc.20882$uK.16329@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
>
> > >Jerry believes he's a dog trainer.
> >
> > Fortunately, I happen to believe he is too.
> > I took a rescued three year old beagle that
> > had been kept outside all of its life that didn't
> > even recognize or respond to its name to
> > Jerry's home (That ugly cinder block shack???
> > get real) and in just over one hour of working
> > with the dog, he was coming on command
> > (not a quickly as he does now, but still...) and
> > walking with us on a loose lead.
> >
> > His "hot/cold" exercise and "come when called"
> > command and pack exercise WORK!
> >
> > > and in all likelihood he's never even been near a dog.
> >
> > Well, he's been near mine, and done wonders for him.
> >
> > You don't have to like him. You don't have
> > to agree with his methods, but as far as I
> > am concerned, I've never seen any other
> > training approach that was as fast and easy.
> >
> > <<<< Rest of original post deleted >>>>
> >
> > Ron Flanagan
> > Orlando, Florida
>
> -----------------------
>
> > "Zack Pellers" <ZackPellers@GUESSWHERE.cc>
> > wrote in message
> > dlinge1@towson.edu (Derek) wrote in news:
> > 697700b8.0405202039.5c7374b9@posting.google.com:
> >
> > Your dog needs to be retrained. Contact Mr. Jerry Howe.
> >
> > Http://www.DoggyDoRight.com
> >
> > You can start by downloading the free training
> > manual available on the site above. I used it on
> > my 4 year old Fila Brasileiro.
> >
> > When I first brought him home from rescue, he
> > was similar to the way you decribed your dog.
> > After using Mr. Howe's training method, the dog
> > was cured within 72 hours.
> >
> > -Jack
>
> "Dan Moore" <mooreteam@worldnet.att.net>
>
> wrote in message
> news:fS2Lc.114567$OB3.42357@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.
> ..
> >
> > Tracy,
> >
> > What worked for me, in just one storm,
> > was to praise the dog after each clap
> > of thunder, telling him he's a Good Dog!
> >
> > This is an almost 13 year old Doberman, BTW.
> >
> > The next time it thundered, he did not even react at
> > all--you could not tell it was the same dog as before.
> >
> > There was more thunder just the other day, and same
> > thing, nada, nothing, zilch, no cowering, whimpering,
> > trying to hide at all, it was that simple.
> >
> > I got this idea from Jerry Howe, who might seem
> > to be a "wild and crazy" character, but his non-
> > abusive way of handling dogs WORKS.
> >
> > Wonderfully.
> >
> > Praise.
> >
> > It's that simple.
> >
> > Juanita
>
> "Ted Rumple" <rumplemint@kalbar.net> wrote in message
> news:30aa784b.0309290208.135e9ab1@posting.google.com...
> >
> > Jerry, I am forever in your debt. The system you have
> > created for training dogs is absolutely amazing!
> >
> > I can't wait until the new version is available for human
> > children!
> >
> > Thank you for your service to humanity!
>
> Here's professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM research
> at UofWI, marshall "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM
> "NO!" into ITS face for five seconds and lock IT in a
> box for ten minutes contemplation," dermer:
>
> "At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
> But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
> shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
> then you will have achieved too things.
>
> First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
> and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.
>
> How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
> minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
> biting.
>
> **********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************
>
> When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
> forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
> closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
> before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).
>
> "No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
> to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
> dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
> UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.
>
> BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!
>
> That's INSANE. Ain't it.
>
> The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{}TPW ; ~ } >
>
> P.S. Contacting Dr. P:
>
> Please note that due to the large number of
> requests I receive, I can no longer give free,
> personal advice on problems related to dog
> training and behavior.
>
> In order for me to give such advice we would
> have to "talk" about the problem at length.
>
> That is, I would need detailed information about
> the dog, it's environment and routine, the problem,
> and the situation in which the problem occurs.
>
> Thus, this type of consultation takes time which
> I cannot afford to give away for free.
>
> If you wish such advice, please see the information
> I have provided about my K9 Behavioral Consulting
> practice. Another alternative to obtaining personal
> advice is to participate in e-mail, chat room, &
> newsgroup discussions.
>
> P.P.S. BWEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!
>
> YOU'RE FRAUDS, drs p. and dermer!
>
> Either DEFEND your LIES, ABUSE And
> Degrees or get the heel HOWETA THIS
> BUSINESS.
>
> "If you talk with the animals, they will talk with you
> and you will know each other.
> If you do not talk to them, you will not know them,
> and what you do not know you will fear.
>
> What one fears, one destroys."
> Chief Dan George
>
> "(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
> few regulars here who are either ill-
> tempered, ill-mannered, or just plain ill.),"
> --Marshall
>
> "Rootman" <no-one@nowhere.org> wrote in message
> news:vd83djr9fv0cc0@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> > Mini Adolph Hitler (aka megalomanic) wrote:
> >
> > <snipped>
> >
> > Something else that was completely stupid,
> > ignorant false and nongermane.
> >
> >
> > JH, you are a goosestepping, facist, brownshirt,
> > terrorist supporting, nazi thug. YOU hurt and kill
> > dogs then try and cover it up by dreaming up false
> > quotes to support your own retard methods.
> >
> > Go and practice your wild facism somewhere else.
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
> few regulars here who are either ill-
> tempered, ill-mannered, or just plain ill.),"
> --Marshall
>
>
> The Puppy Wizard sez "A dog is a dog as a child
> is a child. They only respond in PREDICTABLE
> NORMAL NATURAL INNATE INSTINCTIVE
> REFLEXIVE ways to situations and circumstances
> of their environment which we create for them.
>
> ALL BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS ARE CAUSED BY
> MISHANDLING. Damn The Descartean War of
> "Nature Vs Nurture." We Teach By HOWER Words
> And Actions And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.
>
> In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
> FAILURE MEANS DEATH. SAME SAME SAME
> SAME, For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.
>
> "If you talk with the animals, they will talk with you
> and you will know each other.
> If you do not talk to them, you will not know them,
> and what you do not know you will fear.
>
> What one fears, one destroys."
> Chief Dan George
>
> "(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
> few regulars here who are either ill-
> tempered, ill-mannered, or just plain ill.),"
> --Marshall
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Marshall Dermer" <dermer@csd.uwm.edu>
> > To: "The Puppy Wizard"
> > <ThePuppyWizard@earthlink.net> Sent: Friday, July
> > 23, 2004 2:53 PM Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
> >
> >
> > Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,
> >
> > I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
> > and now must applaud your attempts to save
> > animals from painful training procedures.
> >
> > You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent,
> > who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts to
> > alert the world to animal abuse.
> >
> > We are lucky to have you, and more people should
> > come to their senses and support your valuable
> > work.
> >
> > Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
> > charity to fund your important work?
> >
> > Have you thought about holding a press conference
> > so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
> > and significant work?
> >
> > In closing, my only suggestion is that you
> > try to keep your messages short for most
> > readers may refuse to read a long message
> > even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
> >
> > I wish you well in your endeavors.
> >
> > --Marshall Dermer
> >
> > Marshall Dermer/Associate Professor/Behavior
> > Analysis Specialty/Department of Psychology/
> > University of Wisconsin- -Milwaukee/ Milwaukee,
> > WI 53201
> > dermer@uwm.edu http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
>
> > --------------------------------------
>
> "If you've got them by the balls their hearts
> and minds will follow,"
> John Wayne.
>
> The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
>
> GOT MILK?
>







Song
2004-10-16 06:34:26 EST

"michael 3.0" <michael30@yahooogoogling.com> brought me to tears with this
news story in news:csidnQFO3_fEDu3cRVn-hA@comcast.com...
> Hello fans,
>
> think about this the next time you take a dog to
> the local "shelter"
>
>
>
> Stu Bykofsky | Sheea didn't have a chance
>
> Dog was destroyed soon after she arrived at 'shelter'
>
> By Stu Bykofsky
>
> stubyko@phillynews.com
>
> NINE SHORT minutes.
>
> That was Sheea's lifespan from the time she arrived at Philadelphia
> Animal Care and Control Association until they put her down.
>
> The rush to execute the innocent 2-year-old Shetland sheepdog brought
> grief to the Troy family and heartbreak to 7-year-old Kayla, who had
> named the puppy after getting it as a gift from her uncle Steve two
> years ago.
>
> In addition to suffering the cruel loss of their "friendly, playful"
> pet, the Troys were subjected to stonewalling, lies and verbal abuse
> from workers at PACCA, according to Steve Troy, who said the family is
> still waiting for a truthful explanation, not to mention an apology.
>
> "We're challenged now with as many as 200 animals a day coming into
> PACCA. A lot of them are strays. A lot of them are owners that don't
> like the fact that the dog doesn't match the new rug, or for whatever
> reason," PACCA President Joseph Cronauer told me. "Think about what 200
> animals a day adds up to."
>
> It adds up to a lot of unwanted pets, but that wasn't the case with the
> Troys' little Sheea.
>
> Sheea ran away
>

<snipped>

His frustration is understandable. Something smells bad at PACCA, and I
> don't mean dog poop.
> E-mail Stu Bykofsky at stubyko@phillynews.com or call 215-854-5977.

How sad that these things go on! That poor family! The poor dog! I am
stunned by the huge numbers of unwanted pets as well. What is wrong with
people?

I feel ashamed to be human sometimes...





Sionnach
2004-10-16 15:16:56 EST

"michael 3.0" <michael30@yahooogoogling.com> wrote in message
news:csidnQFO3_fEDu3cRVn-hA@comcast.com...
> Hello fans,
>
> think about this the next time you take a dog to
> the local "shelter"

<shrug> While this story is unfortunate, it won't in the slightest change
my mind about taking dogs to my local shelters - especially since the two
*owned* dogs I've turned in - both of them with NO ID, one of them an intact
male Pit Bull Terrier - were reunited with their owners within 48 hours.




Michael A. Ball
2004-10-16 21:15:01 EST
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:21:59 -0400, "michael 3.0"
<*0@yahooogoogling.com> wrote:

This news feature lacks the polish and objectivity of a hard news story,
and contains some serious editing/proofreading problems.

The writer suggests the dog might not have been killed, but sold. Being
small, Shetland sheepdogs are highly sought after dogs, which makes
killing Sheea illogical. Perhaps the investigation will show that some
wrong was committed.

For me, the article causes no second thoughts about taking strays to the
shelter. However, it does remind me of why I am so careful about making
my dogs identifiable, and providing a level of security that is nearly
fail safe. My dogs are micro chipped. Their collars, bearing multiple
tags, are never removed.

I acknowledge that accidents do happen to all of us; but in general,
there wouldn't be some many shelter problems, if the pet-owning public
just did the right thing.

Michael
When I die, I want to go where dogs go!

The Puppy Wizard
2004-10-17 10:59:34 EST
HOWEDY michael,

"Michael A. Ball" <Guardian@wireco.net> wrote in message
news:lbe3n0hhjjoiumeacfb9srvkbsh0t55sss@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:21:59 -0400, "michael 3.0"
> <michael30@yahooogoogling.com> wrote:
>
> This news feature lacks the polish and
> objectivity of a hard news story,

Unlike your story where you MURDERED
Symphony on accHOWENT of she was DEAF.

> and contains some serious editing/proofreading problems.

If not being able to PRAISE IT with your voice was
THAT much of a PROBLEM for you mikey maybe
you coulda just put a SHOCK collar on IT like most
of your RESCUE an SHELTER pals do, and let IT live.

> The writer suggests the dog might not have been killed,

Yeah. That'd be a HOWEtside chance with DOG LOVERS
like you runnin arHOWEND, you miserable coward. You
make your livin off of MURDERIN innocent dogs.

REMEMBER mikey?

> but sold.

Who'd BUY a DEAF DOG, mikey?

Haven't you taken dogs that you was supposed
to MURDER and kept them for yourself?

> Being small, Shetland sheepdogs are highly
> sought after dogs,

A dog is a dog.

> which makes killing Sheea illogical.

If she got SCARED while a shelter dog lover
LIKE YOU choked and dragged and shoved
her into a crate she mighta GOT SCARED
and snapped at them and then you'd of
MURDERED her on the spot like HOWE
you done Symphony. EXXXCEPT for that
Symphony wasn't AGGRESSIVE or SCARED.

You gave her a cookie and told her it was O.K.
and they you MURDERED her, dog abuser.

REMEMBER, mikey?

> Perhaps the investigation will show that
> some wrong was committed.

You think an INVESTIGATION to SEE if some
"WRONG" was committed, is warranted, mikey?

> For me,

You're the bum who MURDERS shelter dogs.

REMEMBER, mikey?

You're the WON who'd DONE whatever "WRONG"
mighta been done, for fun an profit, eh mikey?

> the article causes no second thoughts
> about taking strays to the shelter.

You murder dogs for walkin arHOWEND.

> However, it does remind me of why I am
> so careful about making my dogs identifiable,
> and providing a level of security that is nearly
> fail safe.

You're full of crap mikey.

Your dogs will run HOWET on you
NEARLY INSTANTLY if given the chance.

> My dogs are micro chipped. Their collars,
> bearing multiple tags, are never removed.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard's dogs never
wear collars unless they're on leash. They
got no use for leavin their terrortory on their
own.

> I acknowledge that accidents do happen
> to all of us; but in general, there wouldn't
> be some many shelter problems, if the
> pet-owning public just did the right thing.

Yeah. Like bring in stray dogs for you to MURDER.

> Michael
> When I die, I want to go where dogs go!

NOT A CHANCE IN HEEL.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <:{) ; ~ ) >



-michael 3.1
2004-10-17 23:13:08 EST
The Puppy Wizard wrote:

> HOWEDY michael,
>
> "Michael A. Ball" <Guardian@wireco.net> wrote in message
> news:lbe3n0hhjjoiumeacfb9srvkbsh0t55sss@4ax.com...
>
>>On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 23:21:59 -0400, "michael 3.0"
>><michael30@yahooogoogling.com> wrote:
>>
>>This news feature lacks the polish and
>>objectivity of a hard news story,


Hello Michael,
Hello Wiz,

This was a FRONT PAGE story in the high circulation
Philly Daily News

It was the ENTIRE front page, including picture of
dog and little girl who owned her before the
shelter murdered sheea nine minutes after she
arrived because they follow Sue Sternberg's
methods for quick and efficient dog murdering
of harmless, innocent dogs, because they get
PAID to murder dogs. it's their JOB.


> Unlike your story where you MURDERED
> Symphony on accHOWENT of she was DEAF.
>
>
>>and contains some serious editing/proofreading problems.

Tell it to the DAILY NEWS



> If not being able to PRAISE IT with your voice was
> THAT much of a PROBLEM for you mikey maybe
> you coulda just put a SHOCK collar on IT like most
> of your RESCUE an SHELTER pals do, and let IT live.
>
>
>>The writer suggests the dog might not have been killed,
>
>
> Yeah. That'd be a HOWEtside chance with DOG LOVERS
> like you runnin arHOWEND, you miserable coward. You
> make your livin off of MURDERIN innocent dogs.
>
> REMEMBER mikey?
>
>
>> but sold.


That's possible, since all the dog execution facility
cares about is money, not dogs.




> Who'd BUY a DEAF DOG, mikey?
>
> Haven't you taken dogs that you was supposed
> to MURDER and kept them for yourself?
>
>
>> Being small, Shetland sheepdogs are highly
>>sought after dogs,

If the shelter did sell the dog, it was pretty
effing stupid of them to make up an excuse that
they murdered her in 9 minutes instead of telling
the truth that they sold her. Either way, I hope
they get sued into oblivion.

But I think they did murder her. Because she was
"unstable" while being terrified of the people who
where manhandling her, the people who get paid to
exterminate dogs. The people whose PRIMARY job
function is to exterminate dogs for PROFIT.

And they probably followed Sue Sternberg's "Kill
First (preferably within 9 minutes) ask questions
later" approach to dog rescue and "sheltering".

BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAAA!!!


hope that was of heelp.



--
this is michael
reporting live...
http://dogtv.com
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