Dog Discussion: Can Castration Cause Weight Gain In Male Dogs?

Can Castration Cause Weight Gain In Male Dogs?
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Greg
2004-07-07 01:44:43 EST
In article <fjEGc.10192$yy1.9739@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
T*d@earthlink.net says...
> HOWEDY Greg,

> Oh. Well what do you EXXXPECT, Greg?
> You couldn't even control your dog.

Hey, both you and michael_ <michael@microyahoogoogle.com> need to back
off on comments about my family.
FYI - my wife really "owns" the dogs anyhow. I old her before she
bought the first one that it would be a bigger responsibility than I was
willing to take on -especially with juggling work, school, and raising a
family. She prevailed with her arguments that she had a dog as a child
and felt that it would be a beneficial companion for us all, especially
the kids. I've never had a dog as a child - but I had numerous fish,
various rodents, as well as turtles and any other animal I could find
including snakes, frogs, injured birds and turtles (of course I was
always required to release the wild animals).
My point is that I had told her before each animal came into the house
that SHE was going to bear ultimate responsibility for them since, while
I have always loved dogs, that I considered them to be major
responsibilities - like having more children.
It was her who:
--searched the papers and visited the sellers to find these dogs.
--paid the astronomical price for these purebreds (personally, I would
have gone to our local humane society and rescued a dog).
--paid the numerous vet bills.
--trained them from going to the bathroom to following commands.
So WHY would I need to "control" my wife or prove "who wears the pants"
in the family? We each have our own domains. Hers is the management of
the dogs. It's funny that between the two of us, they seem to think I'm
their pack leader - -they must not know who in the family is writing the
checks for them.
Guys, when I came to this forum I posted my question as neutral as
possible - and did not indicate my position. In the last post I told
the story and my position became obvious. As you can see, I agree that
it is a bad idea to do a procedure where there is no firm research to
justify the risks. While my wife is beginning to believe me now, she
was convinced by the Vet's greater dog specific training. The real
blame should fall on the Vet for working so hard to convince her that
the castration was a medically justifiable procedure. When I found out
how much the dog weighs - it sunk in that there is something drastically
wrong with a dog weighing almost twice what the average weight for that
breed is.
Puppy Wizard: when I talked about checking the growth hormone levels you
responded that stress might provoke an auto-immune response. Even if
that were so, an auto-imune attack on the pituitary has not been
documented to cause an increase in growth hormone. Now the thyroid
tissue is different: an autoimmune attack may initially result in
increased thyroid levels as the TSH receptors are stimulated by
antibodies, and again as the damaged cell releases stored thyroid
hormones.
You also stated that a CAT or MRI scan of the pituitary "is probably
irrelevant." Not true: a GH releasing tumor may cause accelerated
growth - thus explaining his giantism (IF he can really be classified as
suffering from giantism).
On a final note: those references seemed god at first, but there is not
enough information to retrieve them. The second one about prostate
cancer lacks a publication source.

Amy Dahl
2004-07-07 06:07:41 EST


Greg wrote:

On a final note: those references seemed god at first, but there is not

> enough information to retrieve them. The second one about prostate
> cancer lacks a publication source.

Greg, here's another $.02 for you. I've read a number of articles but
don't have them handy (have moved & been busy). Dogs castrated
young do tend to grow taller and fill out less. I believe this is a
generally accepted observation. On the weight, studies have shown
that castrated dogs tend to gain weight but of course it's not inevitable.
There are other factors, such as the recommendations for feeding on
many dog food labels, which advise feeding more than the dog needs.
In principle, it should be possible to manage weight in a healthy
animal. I feed for condition; if I see too much fat (or too-clearly-
outlined ribs) I adjust the amount.

Many of the studies I've read are disappointing in terms of methodology
and the number of dogs involved. This is especially true of those
relating behavior/aggression and castration. Many rely heavily on
owner observation and it's difficult to tease out to what extent people
believe they are seeing what they have been told they will see (by their
vet). Dealing with people's pets, there are also questions of whether
the selection process leads to an inherent bias.

Castrated males have a high incidence of canine cognitive dysfunction,
but my understanding is that they're working on developing testosterone
supplements as a treatment and I wouldn't be surprised if those are
available by the time your puppy is in the affected age class.

Personally, if a vet pulled that "I'm a vet and you're not" business on
me, I'd find another vet.

My personal bias is to prefer intact males. I like the personality, and
I like the greater muscle and endurance.

Amy Dahl


Michael_
2004-07-07 06:54:53 EST
Greg wrote:

> In article <fjEGc.10192$yy1.9739@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
> ThePuppyWizard@earthlink.net says...
>
>>HOWEDY Greg,
>
>
>
>>Oh. Well what do you EXXXPECT, Greg?
>>You couldn't even control your dog.
>
>
> Hey, both you and michael_ <michael@microyahoogoogle.com> need to back
> off on comments about my family.

Hello Greg,

The Puppy Wizard and myself don't specialize in
human relations, so you'll have to excuse us. The problem
is though, that the people who do specialize in human
relations here, will often lie to you, dis and misinform
you, and be nice to you and tell you what you want to hear.
So I guess you've got to pick your poison. Anyway,
good luck in your search for the truth. Let us know if you
come up with anything good.



--
this is michael
reporting live...
http://dogtv.com




> FYI - my wife really "owns" the dogs anyhow. I old her before she
> bought the first one that it would be a bigger responsibility than I was
> willing to take on -especially with juggling work, school, and raising a
> family. She prevailed with her arguments that she had a dog as a child
> and felt that it would be a beneficial companion for us all, especially
> the kids. I've never had a dog as a child - but I had numerous fish,
> various rodents, as well as turtles and any other animal I could find
> including snakes, frogs, injured birds and turtles (of course I was
> always required to release the wild animals).
> My point is that I had told her before each animal came into the house
> that SHE was going to bear ultimate responsibility for them since, while
> I have always loved dogs, that I considered them to be major
> responsibilities - like having more children.
> It was her who:
> --searched the papers and visited the sellers to find these dogs.
> --paid the astronomical price for these purebreds (personally, I would
> have gone to our local humane society and rescued a dog).
> --paid the numerous vet bills.
> --trained them from going to the bathroom to following commands.
> So WHY would I need to "control" my wife or prove "who wears the pants"
> in the family? We each have our own domains. Hers is the management of
> the dogs. It's funny that between the two of us, they seem to think I'm
> their pack leader - -they must not know who in the family is writing the
> checks for them.
> Guys, when I came to this forum I posted my question as neutral as
> possible - and did not indicate my position. In the last post I told
> the story and my position became obvious. As you can see, I agree that
> it is a bad idea to do a procedure where there is no firm research to
> justify the risks. While my wife is beginning to believe me now, she
> was convinced by the Vet's greater dog specific training. The real
> blame should fall on the Vet for working so hard to convince her that
> the castration was a medically justifiable procedure. When I found out
> how much the dog weighs - it sunk in that there is something drastically
> wrong with a dog weighing almost twice what the average weight for that
> breed is.
> Puppy Wizard: when I talked about checking the growth hormone levels you
> responded that stress might provoke an auto-immune response. Even if
> that were so, an auto-imune attack on the pituitary has not been
> documented to cause an increase in growth hormone. Now the thyroid
> tissue is different: an autoimmune attack may initially result in
> increased thyroid levels as the TSH receptors are stimulated by
> antibodies, and again as the damaged cell releases stored thyroid
> hormones.
> You also stated that a CAT or MRI scan of the pituitary "is probably
> irrelevant." Not true: a GH releasing tumor may cause accelerated
> growth - thus explaining his giantism (IF he can really be classified as
> suffering from giantism).
> On a final note: those references seemed god at first, but there is not
> enough information to retrieve them. The second one about prostate
> cancer lacks a publication source.

The Puppy Wizard
2004-07-07 07:43:59 EST
BWEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!

"Greg" <not@thisaddress.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1b5558b1b0a9b9429897c3@news-server.rochester.rr.com...
> In article
<fjEGc.10192$yy1.9739@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
> ThePuppyWizard@earthlink.net says...
> > HOWEDY Greg,
>
> > Oh. Well what do you EXXXPECT, Greg?
> > You couldn't even control your dog.
>
> Hey, both you and michael_ <michael@microyahoogoogle.com> need
to back
> off on comments about my family.
> FYI - my wife really "owns" the dogs anyhow. I old her before
she
> bought the first one that it would be a bigger responsibility
than I was
> willing to take on -especially with juggling work, school, and
raising a
> family. She prevailed with her arguments that she had a dog as
a child
> and felt that it would be a beneficial companion for us all,
especially
> the kids. I've never had a dog as a child - but I had numerous
fish,
> various rodents, as well as turtles and any other animal I could
find
> including snakes, frogs, injured birds and turtles (of course I
was
> always required to release the wild animals).
> My point is that I had told her before each animal came into the
house
> that SHE was going to bear ultimate responsibility for them
since, while
> I have always loved dogs, that I considered them to be major
> responsibilities - like having more children.
> It was her who:
> --searched the papers and visited the sellers to find these
dogs.
> --paid the astronomical price for these purebreds (personally, I
would
> have gone to our local humane society and rescued a dog).
> --paid the numerous vet bills.
> --trained them from going to the bathroom to following commands.
> So WHY would I need to "control" my wife or prove "who wears the
pants"
> in the family? We each have our own domains. Hers is the
management of
> the dogs. It's funny that between the two of us, they seem to
think I'm
> their pack leader - -they must not know who in the family is
writing the
> checks for them.
> Guys, when I came to this forum I posted my question as neutral
as
> possible - and did not indicate my position. In the last post I
told
> the story and my position became obvious. As you can see, I
agree that
> it is a bad idea to do a procedure where there is no firm
research to
> justify the risks. While my wife is beginning to believe me
now, she
> was convinced by the Vet's greater dog specific training. The
real
> blame should fall on the Vet for working so hard to convince her
that
> the castration was a medically justifiable procedure. When I
found out
> how much the dog weighs - it sunk in that there is something
drastically
> wrong with a dog weighing almost twice what the average weight
for that
> breed is.
> Puppy Wizard: when I talked about checking the growth hormone
levels you
> responded that stress might provoke an auto-immune response.
Even if
> that were so, an auto-imune attack on the pituitary has not been
> documented to cause an increase in growth hormone. Now the
thyroid
> tissue is different: an autoimmune attack may initially result
in
> increased thyroid levels as the TSH receptors are stimulated by
> antibodies, and again as the damaged cell releases stored
thyroid
> hormones.
> You also stated that a CAT or MRI scan of the pituitary "is
probably
> irrelevant." Not true: a GH releasing tumor may cause
accelerated
> growth - thus explaining his giantism (IF he can really be
classified as
> suffering from giantism).
> On a final note: those references seemed god at first, but there
is not
> enough information to retrieve them. The second one about
prostate
> cancer lacks a publication source.



Gwen Watson
2004-07-07 11:15:39 EST


Amy Dahl wrote:

>
>
>
>My personal bias is to prefer intact males. I like the personality, and
>I like the greater muscle and endurance.
>
>Amy Dahl
>
>

You need to meet my one male that was neutered at age 12 months.
And one women told he would become a couch potatoe. Well that
never happened. In fact he never slowed down. He has awesome
endurance as well as grand muscle. Of course the fact that I do
take him swimming regular plays a factor. But he also has
a rare disorder called "fibrotic myopathy" which has not
slowed him down one bit. He is for sure a very high drive
Schutzhund line dog full of fire at age, 5.5 and still going
strong and hard. I recently did go to one of Fred's certified
"no limitations" instructors and I am quite please with the results
and how calm it has made him outside.

At any rate neutering doesn't necesarrily slow a dog down or give them
less endurance or muscle. And if it slowed Blade down I would hate
to see what he might have
been like.

Personally I more or less prefer my males neutered since all the neighbors
around have "free roaming" bitches in heat all the time. I am totally on
edge whenever I let my Pembroke outside due to this, since he is
showing in AKC conformation at least until he turns 2.5 years old.
If no pts. at that time he will be neutered quite quickly.

Gwen


The Puppy Wizard
2004-07-07 21:15:06 EST
You're a dog abusing mental case, gwen honey.

Your dogs are DYING from STRESS.


"Gwen Watson" <gwen@ig.utexas.edu> wrote in message
news:cch43u$j4r$1@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu...
>
>
> Amy Dahl wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >My personal bias is to prefer intact males. I like the
personality, and
> >I like the greater muscle and endurance.
> >
> >Amy Dahl
> >
> >
>
> You need to meet my one male that was neutered at age 12 months.
> And one women told he would become a couch potatoe. Well that
> never happened. In fact he never slowed down. He has awesome
> endurance as well as grand muscle. Of course the fact that I do
> take him swimming regular plays a factor. But he also has
> a rare disorder called "fibrotic myopathy" which has not
> slowed him down one bit. He is for sure a very high drive
> Schutzhund line dog full of fire at age, 5.5 and still going
> strong and hard. I recently did go to one of Fred's certified
> "no limitations" instructors and I am quite please with the
results
> and how calm it has made him outside.
>
> At any rate neutering doesn't necesarrily slow a dog down or
give them
> less endurance or muscle. And if it slowed Blade down I would
hate
> to see what he might have
> been like.
>
> Personally I more or less prefer my males neutered since all the
neighbors
> around have "free roaming" bitches in heat all the time. I am
totally on
> edge whenever I let my Pembroke outside due to this, since he is
> showing in AKC conformation at least until he turns 2.5 years
old.
> If no pts. at that time he will be neutered quite quickly.
>
> Gwen
>



R*@gmail.com
2012-03-14 06:34:25 EST
On Sunday, 4 July 2004 08:27:36 UTC+5:30, Greg wrote:
> I hope you can help direct me to a published peer reviewed journal
> showing aany association, or lack of association between male dog
> castration and weight gain. My web search found veterinarians referring
> to an association, but no hard data. I'm wondering if this is just folk
> lore or if there is any studies to show the association. I HAVE found
> numerous controlled studies of hypogonadal adult males that showed an
> association between testosterone replacement in men with testosterone
> deficencies and a decrease in body fat and increase in lean body mass,
> but I don't know if that information can be generalized to dogs. My
> kids are currently debating this issue and I'm having no luck finding
> any evidence either way. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> ---Thanks for any help you can provide.

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