Research Discussion: CIA Has Shills On The Usenet/Some Are Posing As "UFO Debunkers!"//PROOF PROOF PROOF

CIA Has Shills On The Usenet/Some Are Posing As "UFO Debunkers!"//PROOF PROOF PROOF
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Sir Arthur C.B.E. Wholeflaffers A.S.A.
2011-10-09 07:31:37 EST
CIA has shills on the Usenet/Some are posing as "UFO Debunkers!"

The Central Intelligence Agency has shills on usenet. If they see
that you
post dissenting opinions you may find yourself getting little
"friendly"
notes seeking to establish a relationship with you. Later you might
find offers from this person of "insider info" or some other such
thing.

Be careful! They like nothing better than to entrap people
by getting you to ask for some classified information so they
can then bust you.

Another tack is outright threatening email by some "nut"
(often from an AOL or anon account) telling you to shut up
or else bad things will happen.

Other times the email will be more conciliatory, trying to
convince you that it's a waste of time to show up the shills
on the newsgroups.

It's almost funny that people not on the net have
no idea the ideological games their government
plays on usenet. It would be funny if it wasn't such a disgrace. : -
(

Several UFO debunkers have been proven to be affiliated
with the intelligence-community and they have subsequently
been exposed by some excellent investigative work by
certain members of this newsgroup. My deepest respect
goes out to these brave individuals who have flushed
out the "spOOks" and humanity owes each and every one of
you a heart-felt thank-you! Democracy and liberty are more
than just "ideas" to be talked about, they need to be
practiced on a daily basis, if they are to survive.

The Internet is a potentially lucrative source of intelligence useful
to the Usenet spOOks intelligence services:

This intelligence can include:

* Reports on current events
* Analytic assessments by politically astute observers on or near the
scene of those events, many of whom offer unique insights
* Information about the plans and operations of UFO active groups.

IF IT BECAME WIDELY KNOWN THAT DEBUNKERS WERE MONITORING INTERNET
TRAFFIC FOR INTELLIGENCE OR COUNTERINTELLIGENCE PURPOSES, INDIVIDUALS
WITH PERSONAL AGENDAS OR POLITICAL PURPOSES IN MIND, OR WHO ENJOY
PLAYING PRANKS, WOULD DELIBERATELY ENTER FALSE OR MISLEADING
MESSAGES. OUR ANALYSIS FUNCTION WOULD NEED TO ACCOUNT FOR THIS. It
has become readily apparent that certain Usenet spOOk/Debunkers such
as O-BORG, Echelon Spinetti, and Harry Borsch-Belt have been
infiltrating and monitoring these Usenet Alien Sub-Groups for their
own nefarious reasons.

At the same time, it should be noted that a great deal of the message
traffic on the Internet is idle chit-chat with no intelligence value
whatsoever, a veritable "Tower of Babble." MONITORING OF THAT
TRAFFIC WOULD NEED TO BE SUPPORTED BY AUTOMATED FILTERS THAT PASS
THROUGH FOR HUMAN ANALYSIS ONLY THOSE MESSAGES THAT SATISFY CERTAIN
RELEVANCE CRITERIA. It is also important to note that the accuracy of
much of the information on the Internet would be suspect:
"Information and disinformation about breaking events are pretty raw
on the Net. That's the point. You don't know what to think of any
particular bit of information, how to gauge its credibility... You
never really know how to gauge the credibility of the nightly news or
the morning paper, either..."
--------------------------
From: Lugnut@Aardvark.com (Lugnut)
Subject: Re: CIA has shills on the Usenet/Some are posing as "UFO
Debunkers!"
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 01
"Art Wholeflaffer"
<*n@cyberhighway.net> wrote:

>CIA has shills on the Usenet/Some are posing as "UFO Debunkers!"
>
>
>The Central Intelligence Agency has shills on usenet. If they see that you post
>dissenting opinions you may find yourself getting little "friendly" notes seeking to
>establish a relationship with you. Later you might find offers from this person of
>"insider info" or some other such thing.
>

Art, I agree with you, but perhaps not as to specific
agencies/groups represented. Also, the reasons for the obsession of
many "de-bunkers" with visiting believer NGs are many, although some
of the professionals paid to do so are often obvious even to us.

Engineering/science students, many participating in government
funded research projects, are constant visitors, and many of those
feel "obligated" to defend USam against what they feel are unjustified
and unprovoked attacks, often focusing on attacking the beliefs and
credibility of NG participants.

The older debunkers, apparently beneficiaries of an upper-class
education, a life devoted to government service (or at least a job
with direct ties to the government), friends still in the government,
and now retired and fetching government checks (SS, SSI, FERF, etc),
have that same steadfast devotion to the old Stars and Stripes that
lured them into the business in the first place.

I have a nephew who attended Yale on an astrophysics scholarship.
The government came recruiting one year, and he was approached. He
didn't fall for it. He now teaches k-12 school students, instead of
injecting school children with uranium.

Whether its part of their job description, or its just their way of
repaying the government for years of support, they're just doing what
is in their nature. Not all government loyalists carry FBI, IRS,
Secret Service, INS, etc. badges. Unfortunately, whether its 8 cops in
L.A., an FBI sniper in Ruby Ridge, Idaho, a USAF SP at Groom Lake,
Nevada, or an onsite-commander in Waco, Texas- they will not hesitate
to do whatever they feel they can get away with.

This is the result of a highly refined method used by the government
to find, recruit and promote those with a tendency to "do whatever
they are told to do".

A lot of the "static" many believers experience in non-skeptic NGs
is a result of this. I'm afraid it will be with us, even after the
people finally regain control of their government. Communism is still
alive and well in the former Soviet Republics. The "Preserve the

Present Government Structure at ALL cost" crowd will always be here,
even after we return the focus of our government to the welfare of the
people.

Perhaps, on that day, we can begin to do more about feeding,
clothing, housing and healing the populace, than worrying about
getting enough human test subjects for the next great experiment.

The scientific community is not big on issues of conscience, much
like the government. That is why they are so quick to jump into bed
together. A moral scientist is usually an unemployed scientist. There
ARE no moral politicians or bureaucrats. They don't exist.

I don't so much mind the government supporters, the human
experimentation supporters, secret R&D supporters, or even athletic
supporters in the believer NGs, because I respect the freedom of
expression, but I resent the fact that they are prepared to deny any
one of us the right to our very life, at any second, based on "orders"
from the high command or to further scientific research.

Trying to address the conscience aspect of any issue related to the
science/government/military love triangle with a debunker is like
trying to discuss birth control with the Pope. Can't be done.


Lugnut-April 8, 1996
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
From: BeryBeryCanary <bery@bery.canary>
Date: Sun, Jul 30, 2000, 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: CIA has shills on the Usenet/Some are STILL posing as
"UFO Debunkers!"//AGREED!!

And it often raises their hair (generating ill-thought emotional
knee-jerk replies) when you bring up the following fact - they are
guaranteed that job and salary (from our taxpayer money), all the
while not having to be (in any way) accountable to those of us who
employ them.

We as their majority employer have simply become the 'threat/problem',
which needs to be reduced/eliminated. Guess that's how the hidden
agenda surfaces on this playing field, when you have to operate
'inside the box' - charading through lies at every opportunity of
human interaction. Has to be quite a sad state to exist in, but hey -
that mental conditioning (or wait was it just testing/sampling?) must
help them under their (self-induced) strains.

From: BeryBeryCanary <bery@bery.canary> Sun, Jul 30, 2000
-------------------------------------------
From: excalibur1308@my-deja.com
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000
Subject: Re: CIA has shills on the Usenet/Some are STILL posing as
"UFO Debunkers!"//AGREED!!

There are probably a load of computer geeks or whatever
you call them saying "Nah this posting is rubbish"
Well four years ago when I was new to the 'net' and
I posted some 'views'...It happened to me just as
described below so please not too much sceptiscm.
Marvin Gaye and Tammt Tyrrell used to sing the
world is just a 'Great Big Onion' they were right !!!
Peel off one layer and underneath is another.
-------------------------------------------
Gee, Paul, I was merely trying to restrict my opinion to the
particular government I know so well. I am not knowledgeable on either
scientific/military/government connections in other countries (UK,
Haiti, South Africa, or anywhere), or the political structure in other
countries. I thought it was evident that I was speaking about the U.S.
in particular.
As a "value added web service provider" with several web hosting
sites, I am aware of the Net's global nature, thank you.
I still maintain that scientists and engineers avoid discussing the
conscience aspects of their work, or the fields in general. If I am
wrong, I would like to see references to these discussions.
As to the assertions I have made concerning human research subjects,
government accountability, the severe lack of conscience in military
and industrial scientific research projects, or the moral abyss known
as Washington D.C., these have yet to be refuted in any significant
manner.
The question, "At what point does the Human price become too high
for the development of a better aircraft?" has yet to be answered AT
ALL by any supporter of government research.
Let me ask ANY scientist/engineer present: When DOES the Human price
become too high in the pursuit of technological superiority? When its
YOUR life? The life of someone in YOUR family? When?
How far must the government be allowed to go before it is held
accountable? Burning hazardous waste? Dumping nuclear waste into the
ocean? False imprisonment? Denial of Human rights? Kidnapping? Death
threats? Murder? Cover-up?
These are the conscience issues government supporters will not
discuss. They can't. It would be too revealing, too telling about
their true regards for their fellow Humans.
Not until the scientific community ceases to furnish the
government/military with the intellectual tools needed to actually
make weapons, put them together, and insists on some rational moral
guidelines for government behavior, it must share the guilt for what
the government does with the contributions/effort science gives it.
The government will imprison John Q. Public for not paying taxes to
fund weapons research, but (to my knowledge) it has not yet resorted
to imprisoning scientists for not agreeing to work on human
experiments, weapon systems, CBW projects, etc., etc.
If anyone cares to answer the aforementioned questions, or to refute
my assertions concerning conscience-fire away.


pax vobiscum

Lugnut
-------------------------------------------
Echelon Spinetti®®® wrote:
>It's possible that this "Lugnut" person is one of Them,…. The
>spOOks are known to use clever manipulation of words in order to "trick"
-------------------------------------------
Gee, the pot calling the kettle black. If you ever want to know who
I
am, what I do for a living, what nationality I am, where I live, where
I was born...all you have to do is ask. 'Course you won't mind telling
also, right? Let's all whip out the IDs.
As for the spOOk thing, I'm no professional debunker (yes,
Virginia, they do exist-despite efforts to put them in the same
category as blue-skinned ETs and Elvis sightings), and would sooner
cut my own throat before I give up my feelings concerning equality,
right to life, human dignity, compassion... as have most in government
and the military.
You want to know how to tell a spook in a crowd? There's a trick to
it. I learned it as a PJ in Vietnam. They are picked because of their
supposed ability to do the unthinkable on command. To kill, maim, cut
& gut, torture, dismember. The "Iron Men". No guilt, no conscience.
That's bullshit. The guilt and the conscience are there. The trick
is hitting the right nerve to bring it out. Fire them up. Sam gives
them the training, but nothing can remove the guilt. Hit the nerve
and up they pop.
How many doors did we kick in today, guys? Just doing our job,
right? How many civies did we abuse today? How many laws did we break
just doing our job? How much wet work did we get done today? Remember
Shelly Kelly? Luther Parks? Jon Walker? (Run those names thru the
Bureau DB) That Ft. Campbell crew still out doing dirty work? Tell 'em
I said hi, esp. that ugly Staff Sgt. with the messed up tattoo.
Hell, most ex-military know the CIA, as well as most Intelligence
agencies in the US maintain gathering ops to monitor everything from
New York daily's to Net NGs. That's no secret. Usually its some
$25,000/year freshman recruit straight out of GT, NYCC, or some other
east coast college.
Its the burr heads behind the scenes I'm after. They furnish the
go-juice, the momentum, the appetite for the machine. I still say they
couldn't scrape up enough brain cells for a thought without the help
of the scientists and engineers on the payroll.
Show me one debunker who advocates a divorce between the ones with
the knowledge, and the ones who want to use that knowledge to kill and
control. Just one.

Lugnut

Sir Gilligan Horry
2011-10-09 14:10:33 EST
On Sun, 9 Oct 2011 04:31:37 -0700 (PDT), "Sir Arthur C.B.E.
Wholeflaffers A.S.A." <science@zzz.com> wrote:

>Other times the email will be more conciliatory, trying to
>convince you that it's a waste of time to show up the shills
>on the newsgroups.


HubbleSite - Out of the ordinary...out of this world...

http://HubbleSite.org

News center, gallery, discoveries, sci-tech, fun and games,
and reference desk.



Gallery - Wallpaper - Picture Album - Hubble Discoveries.




_____________________________________________



___





___

Alt Alien Research Intelligence Agency Official Admiral Wizzard.
(i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/SirGilliganHorry/Alien_UFO_Research_Intelligence_Agency.jpg)
... here... http://bit.ly/gsYSvc

"Project Mothership" UFOs Aliens Proof Evidence...
http://www.geocities.ws/project_mothership/

Documentary "WATER" ... by Saida Medvedeva.
Beautiful Documentary ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d20NrDX9Es

For Those Who Want To Know...
http://www.WantToKnow.info

Alien UFO Video Proof. Aliens UFOs Free Videos. Free UFO Videos...
http://AliensUFOsFreeVideos.blogspot.com

Aliens UFOs Extraterrestrials Videos Documentaries...
http://Aliens.conforums.com

___

Sir Arthur CB Wholeflaffers ASA
2011-10-10 03:56:30 EST
On Oct 9, 11:10 am, Sir Gilligan Horry <G...@ga7rm5er.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 9 Oct 2011 04:31:37 -0700 (PDT), "Sir Arthur C.B.E.
>
> Wholeflaffers A.S.A." <scie...@zzz.com> wrote:
> >Other times the email will be more conciliatory, trying to
> >convince you that  it's a waste of time to show up the shills
> >on the newsgroups.
>
> HubbleSite - Out of the ordinary...out of this world...
>
> http://HubbleSite.org
>
> News center, gallery, discoveries, sci-tech, fun and games,
> and reference desk.
>
> Gallery - Wallpaper - Picture Album - Hubble Discoveries.
>
> _____________________________________________
>
> ___
>
> ___
>
> Alt Alien Research Intelligence Agency Official Admiral Wizzard.
> (i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/SirGilliganHorry/Alien_UFO_Research_Intelligence_Agency.jpg)
>  ... here...http://bit.ly/gsYSvc
>
> "Project Mothership" UFOs Aliens Proof Evidence...http://www.geocities.ws/project_mothership/
>
> Documentary "WATER" ... by Saida Medvedeva.
> Beautiful Documentary ...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d20NrDX9Es
>
> For Those Who Want To Know...http://www.WantToKnow.info
>
> Alien UFO Video Proof. Aliens UFOs Free Videos. Free UFO Videos...http://AliensUFOsFreeVideos.blogspot.com
>
> Aliens UFOs Extraterrestrials Videos Documentaries...http://Aliens.conforums.com
>
> ___

The Chinese-style execution van will be going though your block so
help the State and please point out all debunkers, their supporters,
sympathizers and enablers. They will be transported for safe-
keeping. If you cooperate I can assure you that your interrogation
will go quickly and painlessly. Sie werden folgen.

Sir Gilligan Horry
2011-10-10 04:20:52 EST
On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 00:56:30 -0700 (PDT), Sir Arthur CB Wholeflaffers
ASA <science@zzz.com> wrote:

>On Oct 9, 11:10?am, Sir Gilligan Horry <G...@ga7rm5er.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 9 Oct 2011 04:31:37 -0700 (PDT), "Sir Arthur C.B.E.
>>
>> Wholeflaffers A.S.A." <scie...@zzz.com> wrote:
>> >Other times the email will be more conciliatory, trying to
>> >convince you that ?it's a waste of time to show up the shills
>> >on the newsgroups.
>>
>> HubbleSite - Out of the ordinary...out of this world...
>>
>> http://HubbleSite.org


> Sie werden folgen.

Sie knen w臧len, Ihre Freunde,
in der Milchstra゚e und anderen Dimensionen.

_____________________
A.U.Y.V.N intelligence agency
conversation with Filmmaker James Fox...

QUOTES:
Yes, we followed you on YouTube too. Good work on the Gulf reporting.
And we also mainly follow your UFO research. As for the Milky Way
Galaxy and the billions of Galaxies and the Universe... it's just
really busy OUT THERE with many different species of ETs. And sadly
it's not all 100% lovely. Also, one problem of several problems is we
Humans lost direct contact with our spirit selves. That info is in Dr.
Roger Leir's book "UFO Crash in Brazil". ... Above all... MIB are some
type of either negative multi-dimensional worker or energy construct,
and as we said, they would be part of the THIRD PARTY mentioned in the
"Decide" intelligence data. ............ Also, you and our teams know
about how many different types of ETs have visited Earth, say within
the past 100 years... maybe over 200 different species of ETs
.......... and look at them all ..... ALL COVERT.

We guess... a variety of some advanced ETs, slowly seed planets and
life, first with dinosaurs, then later somewhat advanced life, ...
then see what planets makes it and what doesn't.
What else is there to do in the Universe, James? ... Because we are
all stuck in the universe for eternity, in physicality and in the
other dimensions including our after-life.
Maybe a bit like our oceans... some species make it, and some don't.
Some people try to save some species of fish, some fish get
genetically modified, and some fish get nuked, some fish get the gulf
oil, some fish are pets, it goes on and on.

However, there are a variety of amazing species of extraterrestrials
OUT THERE and we have to seek them out.
You choose your friends in the World and in the Milky Way Galaxy,
James.

Keep up the Good Work !!!
We are glad to be your friend, James Fox !!!

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/guest/fox-james/6695


_____________________


The Patriot
2011-10-10 10:59:54 EST

"Sir Arthur C.B.E. Wholeflaffers A.S.A."
<*e@zzz.com> wrote in message
news:087a20fa-bcde-4c07-acc3-628014f075ab@x25g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
CIA has shills on the Usenet/Some are posing as "UFO
Debunkers!"

The Central Intelligence Agency has shills on usenet.
If they see
that you
post dissenting opinions you may find yourself getting
little
"friendly"
notes seeking to establish a relationship with you.
Later you might
find offers from this person of "insider info" or some
other such
thing.

Be careful! They like nothing better than to entrap
people
by getting you to ask for some classified information
so they
can then bust you.

Another tack is outright threatening email by some
"nut"
(often from an AOL or anon account) telling you to
shut up
or else bad things will happen.

*************************************************************
You better shut up Holeflapper or something bad may
happen to you.



The Patriot
2011-10-10 11:03:14 EST

"Sir Arthur CB Wholeflaffers ASA" <science@zzz.com>
wrote in message
news:521df962-c708-4f81-a678-55682f39ebf0@20g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 9, 11:10 am, Sir Gilligan Horry
<*.@ga7rm5er.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 9 Oct 2011 04:31:37 -0700 (PDT), "Sir Arthur
> C.B.E.
>
> Wholeflaffers A.S.A." <scie...@zzz.com> wrote:
> >Other times the email will be more conciliatory,
> >trying to
> >convince you that it's a waste of time to show up
> >the shills
> >on the newsgroups.
>
> HubbleSite - Out of the ordinary...out of this
> world...
>
> http://HubbleSite.org
>
> News center, gallery, discoveries, sci-tech, fun and
> games,
> and reference desk.
>
> Gallery - Wallpaper - Picture Album - Hubble
> Discoveries.
>
> _____________________________________________
>
> ___
>
> ___
>
> Alt Alien Research Intelligence Agency Official
> Admiral Wizzard.
> (i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/SirGilliganHorry/Alien_UFO_Research_Intelligence_Agency.jpg)
> ... here...http://bit.ly/gsYSvc
>
> "Project Mothership" UFOs Aliens Proof
> Evidence...http://www.geocities.ws/project_mothership/
>
> Documentary "WATER" ... by Saida Medvedeva.
> Beautiful Documentary
> ...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d20NrDX9Es
>
> For Those Who Want To
> Know...http://www.WantToKnow.info
>
> Alien UFO Video Proof. Aliens UFOs Free Videos. Free
> UFO Videos...http://AliensUFOsFreeVideos.blogspot.com
>
> Aliens UFOs Extraterrestrials Videos
> Documentaries...http://Aliens.conforums.com
>
> ___

The Chinese-style execution van will be going though
your block so
help the State and please point out all debunkers,
their supporters,
sympathizers and enablers. They will be transported
for safe-
keeping. If you cooperate I can assure you that your
interrogation
will go quickly and painlessly. Sie werden folgen.

*******************************************************
Sie sind wahnsinnig Mr. Holeflapper.



Sir Arthur C.B.E. Wholeflaffers A.S.A.
2011-10-11 04:55:37 EST
On Oct 10, 8:03 am, "The Patriot" <xxx...@charter.net> wrote:
> "Sir Arthur CB Wholeflaffers ASA" <scie...@zzz.com>
> wrote in messagenews:521df962-c708-4f81-a678-55682f39ebf0@20g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 9, 11:10 am, Sir Gilligan Horry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <G...@ga7rm5er.com> wrote:
> > On Sun, 9 Oct 2011 04:31:37 -0700 (PDT), "Sir Arthur
> > C.B.E.
>
> > Wholeflaffers A.S.A." <scie...@zzz.com> wrote:
> > >Other times the email will be more conciliatory,
> > >trying to
> > >convince you that it's a waste of time to show up
> > >the shills
> > >on the newsgroups.
>
> > HubbleSite - Out of the ordinary...out of this
> > world...
>
> >http://HubbleSite.org
>
> > News center, gallery, discoveries, sci-tech, fun and
> > games,
> > and reference desk.
>
> > Gallery - Wallpaper - Picture Album - Hubble
> > Discoveries.
>
> > _____________________________________________
>
> > ___
>
> > ___
>
> > Alt Alien Research Intelligence Agency Official
> > Admiral Wizzard.
> > (i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/SirGilliganHorry/Alien_UFO_Research_Intelligence_Agency.jpg)
> > ... here...http://bit.ly/gsYSvc
>
> > "Project Mothership" UFOs Aliens Proof
> > Evidence...http://www.geocities.ws/project_mothership/
>
> > Documentary "WATER" ... by Saida Medvedeva.
> > Beautiful Documentary
> > ...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d20NrDX9Es
>
> > For Those Who Want To
> > Know...http://www.WantToKnow.info
>
> > Alien UFO Video Proof. Aliens UFOs Free Videos. Free
> > UFO Videos...http://AliensUFOsFreeVideos.blogspot.com
>
> > Aliens UFOs Extraterrestrials Videos
> > Documentaries...http://Aliens.conforums.com
>
> > ___
>
> The Chinese-style execution van will be going though
> your block so
> help the State and please point out all debunkers,
> their supporters,
> sympathizers and enablers.  They will be transported
> for safe-
> keeping.  If you cooperate I can assure you that your
> interrogation
> will go quickly and painlessly.  Sie werden folgen.
>
> *******************************************************
> Sie sind wahnsinnig Mr. Holeflapper.

Art, I agree with you, but perhaps not as to specific
agencies/groups represented. Also, the reasons for the obsession of
many "de-bunkers" with visiting believer NGs are many, although some
of the professionals paid to do so are often obvious even to us.

Engineering/science students, many participating in government
funded research projects, are constant visitors, and many of those
feel "obligated" to defend USam against what they feel are unjustified
and unprovoked attacks, often focusing on attacking the beliefs and
credibility of NG participants.

The older debunkers, apparently beneficiaries of an upper-class
education, a life devoted to government service (or at least a job
with direct ties to the government), friends still in the government,
and now retired and fetching government checks (SS, SSI, FERF, etc),
have that same steadfast devotion to the old Stars and Stripes that
lured them into the business in the first place.

I have a nephew who attended Yale on an astrophysics scholarship.
The government came recruiting one year, and he was approached. He
didn't fall for it. He now teaches k-12 school students, instead of
injecting school children with uranium.

Whether its part of their job description, or its just their way of
repaying the government for years of support, they're just doing what
is in their nature. Not all government loyalists carry FBI, IRS,
Secret Service, INS, etc. badges. Unfortunately, whether its 8 cops in
L.A., an FBI sniper in Ruby Ridge, Idaho, a USAF SP at Groom Lake,
Nevada, or an onsite-commander in Waco, Texas- they will not hesitate
to do whatever they feel they can get away with.

This is the result of a highly refined method used by the government
to find, recruit and promote those with a tendency to "do whatever
they are told to do".

A lot of the "static" many believers experience in non-skeptic NGs
is a result of this. I'm afraid it will be with us, even after the
people finally regain control of their government. Communism is still
alive and well in the former Soviet Republics. The "Preserve the

Present Government Structure at ALL cost" crowd will always be here,
even after we return the focus of our government to the welfare of the
people.

Perhaps, on that day, we can begin to do more about feeding,
clothing, housing and healing the populace, than worrying about
getting enough human test subjects for the next great experiment.

The scientific community is not big on issues of conscience, much
like the government. That is why they are so quick to jump into bed
together. A moral scientist is usually an unemployed scientist. There
ARE no moral politicians or bureaucrats. They don't exist.

I don't so much mind the government supporters, the human
experimentation supporters, secret R&D supporters, or even athletic
supporters in the believer NGs, because I respect the freedom of
expression, but I resent the fact that they are prepared to deny any
one of us the right to our very life, at any second, based on "orders"
from the high command or to further scientific research.

Trying to address the conscience aspect of any issue related to the
science/government/military love triangle with a debunker is like
trying to discuss birth control with the Pope. Can't be done.
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