Research Discussion: Earth W/moon Going Rogue (w/o Sun)

Earth W/moon Going Rogue (w/o Sun)
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Brad Guth
2010-07-20 19:56:33 EST
Can complex intelligent life manage without a sun? (seems technically
doable)

First a silly question:
On average, how many main sequence stars of 0.5<10 Ms w/planets,
moons, whatever asteroids and a similar Oort cloud have snuffed out by
now?

My swag: It seems 14 billion years thus far would have to include
most if not at least a high percentage of them, especially of those
having been >2 Ms. Obviously those main sequence stars that started
off below 0.5 Ms should have a much longer lifespan (<40 billion
years), and of those near 10 Ms are going to have a tough time
exceeding a couple hundred million years before turning themselves
into a red supergiant and then a relatively sudden morph into a white
dwarf of perhaps <1.25 Ms (roughly an 8th of their original bulk that
was likely holding onto any number of planets and other stuff).

Anyway you’d care to argue this one, that’s a lot of tidal radii loss
that’ll tend to make whatever planets along with their moons and of
course most everything else that isn’t consumed via the red giant
phase, into rogue items. So, it could be argued that it’s pretty busy
out there, with dark icy planets and their moons (for the most part
inert and lifeless) going pretty much every which way.

Perhaps complex life must have happened for those rogue planets of
Sirius(B) while the light was extremely good, so why not the demise of
Sirius(B) having shared a little something of spare planets, proto-
moons and even complex life for us?

Without our sun we would not likely stick with our other planets (not
even Jupiter unless we exited as a pair in roughly the same
trajectory), although holding onto our moon/Selene gives us access to
a continuous tidal binding force of 2e20 Newtons/sec, or make that
2e20 Joules worth of continuous energy that we wouldn’t otherwise
have. Even setting up a lunar camp/habitat as an off-world outpost,
as safely packaged within our moon/Selene should not be technically
insurmountable. The equatorial bulge of Earth should act as a
sufficient spherical mascon doughnut/love-handle that’ll keep that
physically dark moon within it’s existing orbital trek, as well or
better off than having the sun.

Of course Earth would have become iced over and that exposed surface w/
o sunlight would chill at roughly 40 K, along with that naked moon
might see its average surface temperature at 20 K.

However, as opposed to folks giving up and certain death, whereas life
under a protective layer of ice can't be half bad, unless you're some
kind of sadistic Semite that's too much of a devout ZNR serial pervert
to ever change anything for the better.

If the sun were to suddenly vanish (measurably dimming over the next
thousand years), or more likely gradually go through its red-giant
phase and then nova postal, much like Sirius(B) as clearly having lost
it's tidal radii grip on its planets, as such we might still get along
just fine and dandy on our very dark and icy planet that’s no longer
orbiting our sun that went kaput on us, along with our naked moon
that’s also always dark and perhaps only worth 20 K (at least the
truly rich and powerful would have no problems surviving such cold).
Of course it would be a whole lot nicer if our 40 K frozen to death
Earth were a moon of Jupiter or even Saturn, but no such luck.

In spite of our outside 40 K surface environment, there's still more
than a sufficient geothermal cache, plus loads of thorium, uranium and
other essential elements or minerals within Earth to last us millions
if not a few billions of years, that is as long as the global
population wasn’t more than 700 million (64 million, as roughly less
than 1% of today’s population might be best), and thereby always
enough resources to even keep our bogus and gales-flag wars ongoing so
that our Rothschilds and their Queen will always be happy campers.

Astronomy wise, imagine how crystal clear our perpetual nighttime sky
would always be for astronomy buffs (especially nifty for that IR
spectrum), as nearly always perfectly cloudless (other than scant
vapors that’ll instantly crystallize from our nuclear energy cooling
towers and geothermal driven energy), whereas all of our civilization
other than our "Extreme Winter Olympics" would be situated under a
thick layer of protective ice. Being such a rogue icy planet has it's
biodiversity survival advantages, especially for safely accomplishing
interstellar and multigenerational treks.

If some of us were actually half as good as Einstein at physics,
science and applied technology (William Mook is supposedly way smarter
than Einstein) , as such we might even be capable of steering our
rogue icy planet w/moon towards a suitably passive solar system. Try
to always remember that a thick layer of ice is actually providing a
very good thermal insulator, as well as offering the best kind of
radiation shield, plus it’s relatively asteroid impact resistant to
boot, and as long as we hold onto that pesky moon there’s no good
reason(s) to believe Earth along with its internal cache of thorium
and uranium will ever become geologically dead and inert to the core
like Mars.

Can complex intelligent life (such as us humans) manage without a sun?

At least for a few generations should not be all that insurmountable.
So basically when push comes down to shove, we’re good to go.

Brad Guth / Blog and my Google document pages:
http://bradguth.blogspot.com/
http://docs.google.com/View?id=ddsdxhv_0hrm5bdfj
Brad Guth, Brad_Guth, Brad.Guth, BradGuth, BG / “Guth Usenet”

Sir Gilligan Horry
2010-07-20 20:12:08 EST

Wow, nice post.

I like the "doable" word.

As for a perfect answer, ...

I will first read again tomorrow.

I'm thinking of so much right now.
Everything is important.


P.S.
Brad, what are some of your favorite YouTube videos recently ?

Give 3 or 5 YouTube video links if you like.



___



On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 16:56:33 -0700 (PDT), Brad Guth
<*h@gmail.com> wrote:

>Can complex intelligent life manage without a sun? (seems technically
>doable)
>
>First a silly question:
>On average, how many main sequence stars of 0.5<10 Ms w/planets,
>moons, whatever asteroids and a similar Oort cloud have snuffed out by
>now?
>
>My swag: It seems 14 billion years thus far would have to include
>most if not at least a high percentage of them, especially of those
>having been >2 Ms. Obviously those main sequence stars that started
>off below 0.5 Ms should have a much longer lifespan (<40 billion
>years), and of those near 10 Ms are going to have a tough time
>exceeding a couple hundred million years before turning themselves
>into a red supergiant and then a relatively sudden morph into a white
>dwarf of perhaps <1.25 Ms (roughly an 8th of their original bulk that
>was likely holding onto any number of planets and other stuff).
>
>Anyway you’d care to argue this one, that’s a lot of tidal radii loss
>that’ll tend to make whatever planets along with their moons and of
>course most everything else that isn’t consumed via the red giant
>phase, into rogue items. So, it could be argued that it’s pretty busy
>out there, with dark icy planets and their moons (for the most part
>inert and lifeless) going pretty much every which way.
>
>Perhaps complex life must have happened for those rogue planets of
>Sirius(B) while the light was extremely good, so why not the demise of
>Sirius(B) having shared a little something of spare planets, proto-
>moons and even complex life for us?
>
>Without our sun we would not likely stick with our other planets (not
>even Jupiter unless we exited as a pair in roughly the same
>trajectory), although holding onto our moon/Selene gives us access to
>a continuous tidal binding force of 2e20 Newtons/sec, or make that
>2e20 Joules worth of continuous energy that we wouldn’t otherwise
>have. Even setting up a lunar camp/habitat as an off-world outpost,
>as safely packaged within our moon/Selene should not be technically
>insurmountable. The equatorial bulge of Earth should act as a
>sufficient spherical mascon doughnut/love-handle that’ll keep that
>physically dark moon within it’s existing orbital trek, as well or
>better off than having the sun.
>
>Of course Earth would have become iced over and that exposed surface w/
>o sunlight would chill at roughly 40 K, along with that naked moon
>might see its average surface temperature at 20 K.
>
>However, as opposed to folks giving up and certain death, whereas life
>under a protective layer of ice can't be half bad, unless you're some
>kind of sadistic Semite that's too much of a devout ZNR serial pervert
>to ever change anything for the better.
>
>If the sun were to suddenly vanish (measurably dimming over the next
>thousand years), or more likely gradually go through its red-giant
>phase and then nova postal, much like Sirius(B) as clearly having lost
>it's tidal radii grip on its planets, as such we might still get along
>just fine and dandy on our very dark and icy planet that’s no longer
>orbiting our sun that went kaput on us, along with our naked moon
>that’s also always dark and perhaps only worth 20 K (at least the
>truly rich and powerful would have no problems surviving such cold).
>Of course it would be a whole lot nicer if our 40 K frozen to death
>Earth were a moon of Jupiter or even Saturn, but no such luck.
>
>In spite of our outside 40 K surface environment, there's still more
>than a sufficient geothermal cache, plus loads of thorium, uranium and
>other essential elements or minerals within Earth to last us millions
>if not a few billions of years, that is as long as the global
>population wasn’t more than 700 million (64 million, as roughly less
>than 1% of today’s population might be best), and thereby always
>enough resources to even keep our bogus and gales-flag wars ongoing so
>that our Rothschilds and their Queen will always be happy campers.
>
>Astronomy wise, imagine how crystal clear our perpetual nighttime sky
>would always be for astronomy buffs (especially nifty for that IR
>spectrum), as nearly always perfectly cloudless (other than scant
>vapors that’ll instantly crystallize from our nuclear energy cooling
>towers and geothermal driven energy), whereas all of our civilization
>other than our "Extreme Winter Olympics" would be situated under a
>thick layer of protective ice. Being such a rogue icy planet has it's
>biodiversity survival advantages, especially for safely accomplishing
>interstellar and multigenerational treks.
>
>If some of us were actually half as good as Einstein at physics,
>science and applied technology (William Mook is supposedly way smarter
>than Einstein) , as such we might even be capable of steering our
>rogue icy planet w/moon towards a suitably passive solar system. Try
>to always remember that a thick layer of ice is actually providing a
>very good thermal insulator, as well as offering the best kind of
>radiation shield, plus it’s relatively asteroid impact resistant to
>boot, and as long as we hold onto that pesky moon there’s no good
>reason(s) to believe Earth along with its internal cache of thorium
>and uranium will ever become geologically dead and inert to the core
>like Mars.
>
>Can complex intelligent life (such as us humans) manage without a sun?
>
>At least for a few generations should not be all that insurmountable.
>So basically when push comes down to shove, we’re good to go.
>
>Brad Guth / Blog and my Google document pages:
> http://bradguth.blogspot.com/
> http://docs.google.com/View?id=ddsdxhv_0hrm5bdfj
> Brad Guth, Brad_Guth, Brad.Guth, BradGuth, BG / “Guth Usenet”



_________



.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.


_______________________

The CEO of 'NEXUS Magazine' said
"The Government said we can all
talk about anything except crap
about the Government dealing in drugs".

YouTube Deleted Alien Evidence UFO Proof ... 2_ET_Yes_or_No.AVI
Video Deleted by YouTube for "inappropriate content".
http://www.youtube.com/DennyEarthSpace

Sir Gilligan Horry's Video Will Save The World!!! ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXXRTPGt7Pc
"Show The World !!! ... Please Copy. Please Share".

Mr HVAC and Hagar are ...
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj256/AliensUFOsProof/Mr_HVAC_Hagar_Gods.jpg

_______________________

Mark Earnest
2010-07-20 21:04:27 EST
On Jul 20, 6:56 pm, Brad Guth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Can complex intelligent life manage without a sun? (seems technically
> doable)
>
> First a silly question:
> On average, how many main sequence stars of 0.5<10 Ms w/planets,
> moons, whatever asteroids and a similar Oort cloud have snuffed out by
> now?
>
> My swag:  It seems 14 billion years thus far would have to include
> most if not at least a high percentage of them, especially of those
> having been >2 Ms.  Obviously those main sequence stars that started
> off below 0.5 Ms should have a much longer lifespan (<40 billion
> years), and of those near 10 Ms are going to have a tough time
> exceeding a couple hundred million years before turning themselves
> into a red supergiant and then a relatively sudden morph into a white
> dwarf of perhaps <1.25 Ms (roughly an 8th of their original bulk that
> was likely holding onto any number of planets and other stuff).
>
> Anyway you’d care to argue this one, that’s a lot of tidal radii loss
> that’ll tend to make whatever planets along with their moons and of
> course most everything else that isn’t consumed via the red giant
> phase, into rogue items.  So, it could be argued that it’s pretty busy
> out there, with dark icy planets and their moons (for the most part
> inert and lifeless) going pretty much every which way.
>
> Perhaps complex life must have happened for those rogue planets of
> Sirius(B) while the light was extremely good, so why not the demise of
> Sirius(B) having shared a little something of spare planets, proto-
> moons and even complex life for us?
>
> Without our sun we would not likely stick with our other planets (not
> even Jupiter unless we exited as a pair in roughly the same
> trajectory), although holding onto our moon/Selene gives us access to
> a continuous tidal binding force of 2e20 Newtons/sec, or make that
> 2e20 Joules worth of continuous energy that we wouldn’t otherwise
> have.  Even setting up a lunar camp/habitat as an off-world outpost,
> as safely packaged within our moon/Selene should not be technically
> insurmountable.  The equatorial bulge of Earth should act as a
> sufficient spherical mascon doughnut/love-handle that’ll keep that
> physically dark moon within it’s existing orbital trek, as well or
> better off than having the sun.
>
> Of course Earth would have become iced over and that exposed surface w/
> o sunlight would chill at roughly 40 K, along with that naked moon
> might see its average surface temperature at 20 K.
>
> However, as opposed to folks giving up and certain death, whereas life
> under a protective layer of ice can't be half bad, unless you're some
> kind of sadistic Semite that's too much of a devout ZNR serial pervert
> to ever change anything for the better.
>
> If the sun were to suddenly vanish (measurably dimming over the next
> thousand years), or more likely gradually go through its red-giant
> phase and then nova postal, much like Sirius(B) as clearly having lost
> it's tidal radii grip on its planets, as such we might still get along
> just fine and dandy on our very dark and icy planet that’s no longer
> orbiting our sun that went kaput on us, along with our naked moon
> that’s also always dark and perhaps only worth 20 K (at least the
> truly rich and powerful would have no problems surviving such cold).
> Of course it would be a whole lot nicer if our 40 K frozen to death
> Earth were a moon of Jupiter or even Saturn, but no such luck.
>
> In spite of our outside 40 K surface environment, there's still more
> than a sufficient geothermal cache, plus loads of thorium, uranium and
> other essential elements or minerals within Earth to last us millions
> if not a few billions of years, that is as long as the global
> population wasn’t more than 700 million (64 million, as roughly less
> than 1% of today’s population might be best),  and thereby always
> enough resources to even keep our bogus and gales-flag wars ongoing so
> that our Rothschilds and their Queen will always be happy campers.
>
> Astronomy wise, imagine how crystal clear our perpetual nighttime sky
> would always be for astronomy buffs (especially nifty for that IR
> spectrum), as nearly always perfectly cloudless (other than scant
> vapors that’ll instantly crystallize from our nuclear energy cooling
> towers and geothermal driven energy), whereas all of our civilization
> other than our "Extreme Winter Olympics" would be situated under a
> thick layer of protective ice.  Being such a rogue icy planet has it's
> biodiversity survival advantages, especially for safely accomplishing
> interstellar and multigenerational treks.
>
> If some of us were actually half as good as Einstein at physics,
> science and applied technology (William Mook is supposedly way smarter
> than Einstein) , as such we might even be capable of steering our
> rogue icy planet w/moon towards a suitably passive solar system.  Try
> to always remember that a thick layer of ice is actually providing a
> very good thermal insulator, as well as offering the best kind of
> radiation shield, plus it’s relatively asteroid impact resistant to
> boot, and as long as we hold onto that pesky moon there’s no good
> reason(s) to believe Earth along with its internal cache of thorium
> and uranium will ever become geologically dead and inert to the core
> like Mars.
>
> Can complex intelligent life (such as us humans) manage without a sun?
>
> At least for a few generations should not be all that insurmountable.
> So basically when push comes down to shove, we’re good to go.
>
> Brad Guth / Blog and my Google document pages:
>  http://bradguth.blogspot.com/
>  http://docs.google.com/View?id=ddsdxhv_0hrm5bdfj
>  Brad Guth, Brad_Guth, Brad.Guth, BradGuth, BG / “Guth Usenet”

If Earth/Moon went rogue, everyone would have to go into cryonic
hibernation for a few months or years, depending on how
far we were going, and then when it successfully migrated to a better,
newer star, the star itself could thaw us all out.

In such a way, Earth could go on for more than tens of billions of
years.
Just wonder what would happen when all the molten interiors
solidified.
Would Earth no longer be counted among the living?


Brad Guth
2010-07-20 21:11:54 EST
On Jul 20, 5:12 pm, Sir Gilligan Horry <G...@ga7rm5er.com> wrote:
> Wow, nice post.
>
> I like the "doable" word.
>
> As for a perfect answer, ...
>
> I will first read again tomorrow.
>
> I'm thinking of so much right now.
> Everything is important.
>
> P.S.
> Brad, what are some of your favorite YouTube videos recently ?
>
> Give 3 or 5 YouTube video links if you like.
>
> ___
>
> On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 16:56:33 -0700 (PDT), Brad Guth
>
>
>
> <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Can complex intelligent life manage without a sun? (seems technically
> >doable)
>
> >First a silly question:
> >On average, how many main sequence stars of 0.5<10 Ms w/planets,
> >moons, whatever asteroids and a similar Oort cloud have snuffed out by
> >now?
>
> >My swag:  It seems 14 billion years thus far would have to include
> >most if not at least a high percentage of them, especially of those
> >having been >2 Ms.  Obviously those main sequence stars that started
> >off below 0.5 Ms should have a much longer lifespan (<40 billion
> >years), and of those near 10 Ms are going to have a tough time
> >exceeding a couple hundred million years before turning themselves
> >into a red supergiant and then a relatively sudden morph into a white
> >dwarf of perhaps <1.25 Ms (roughly an 8th of their original bulk that
> >was likely holding onto any number of planets and other stuff).
>
> >Anyway you’d care to argue this one, that’s a lot of tidal radii loss
> >that’ll tend to make whatever planets along with their moons and of
> >course most everything else that isn’t consumed via the red giant
> >phase, into rogue items.  So, it could be argued that it’s pretty busy
> >out there, with dark icy planets and their moons (for the most part
> >inert and lifeless) going pretty much every which way.
>
> >Perhaps complex life must have happened for those rogue planets of
> >Sirius(B) while the light was extremely good, so why not the demise of
> >Sirius(B) having shared a little something of spare planets, proto-
> >moons and even complex life for us?
>
> >Without our sun we would not likely stick with our other planets (not
> >even Jupiter unless we exited as a pair in roughly the same
> >trajectory), although holding onto our moon/Selene gives us access to
> >a continuous tidal binding force of 2e20 Newtons/sec, or make that
> >2e20 Joules worth of continuous energy that we wouldn’t otherwise
> >have.  Even setting up a lunar camp/habitat as an off-world outpost,
> >as safely packaged within our moon/Selene should not be technically
> >insurmountable.  The equatorial bulge of Earth should act as a
> >sufficient spherical mascon doughnut/love-handle that’ll keep that
> >physically dark moon within it’s existing orbital trek, as well or
> >better off than having the sun.
>
> >Of course Earth would have become iced over and that exposed surface w/
> >o sunlight would chill at roughly 40 K, along with that naked moon
> >might see its average surface temperature at 20 K.
>
> >However, as opposed to folks giving up and certain death, whereas life
> >under a protective layer of ice can't be half bad, unless you're some
> >kind of sadistic Semite that's too much of a devout ZNR serial pervert
> >to ever change anything for the better.
>
> >If the sun were to suddenly vanish (measurably dimming over the next
> >thousand years), or more likely gradually go through its red-giant
> >phase and then nova postal, much like Sirius(B) as clearly having lost
> >it's tidal radii grip on its planets, as such we might still get along
> >just fine and dandy on our very dark and icy planet that’s no longer
> >orbiting our sun that went kaput on us, along with our naked moon
> >that’s also always dark and perhaps only worth 20 K (at least the
> >truly rich and powerful would have no problems surviving such cold).
> >Of course it would be a whole lot nicer if our 40 K frozen to death
> >Earth were a moon of Jupiter or even Saturn, but no such luck.
>
> >In spite of our outside 40 K surface environment, there's still more
> >than a sufficient geothermal cache, plus loads of thorium, uranium and
> >other essential elements or minerals within Earth to last us millions
> >if not a few billions of years, that is as long as the global
> >population wasn’t more than 700 million (64 million, as roughly less
> >than 1% of today’s population might be best),  and thereby always
> >enough resources to even keep our bogus and gales-flag wars ongoing so
> >that our Rothschilds and their Queen will always be happy campers.
>
> >Astronomy wise, imagine how crystal clear our perpetual nighttime sky
> >would always be for astronomy buffs (especially nifty for that IR
> >spectrum), as nearly always perfectly cloudless (other than scant
> >vapors that’ll instantly crystallize from our nuclear energy cooling
> >towers and geothermal driven energy), whereas all of our civilization
> >other than our "Extreme Winter Olympics" would be situated under a
> >thick layer of protective ice.  Being such a rogue icy planet has it's
> >biodiversity survival advantages, especially for safely accomplishing
> >interstellar and multigenerational treks.
>
> >If some of us were actually half as good as Einstein at physics,
> >science and applied technology (William Mook is supposedly way smarter
> >than Einstein) , as such we might even be capable of steering our
> >rogue icy planet w/moon towards a suitably passive solar system.  Try
> >to always remember that a thick layer of ice is actually providing a
> >very good thermal insulator, as well as offering the best kind of
> >radiation shield, plus it’s relatively asteroid impact resistant to
> >boot, and as long as we hold onto that pesky moon there’s no good
> >reason(s) to believe Earth along with its internal cache of thorium
> >and uranium will ever become geologically dead and inert to the core
> >like Mars.
>
> >Can complex intelligent life (such as us humans) manage without a sun?
>
> >At least for a few generations should not be all that insurmountable.
> >So basically when push comes down to shove, we’re good to go.
>
> >Brad Guth / Blog and my Google document pages:
> >http://bradguth.blogspot.com/
> >http://docs.google.com/View?id=ddsdxhv_0hrm5bdfj
> > Brad Guth, Brad_Guth, Brad.Guth, BradGuth, BG / “Guth Usenet”
>
> _________
>
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
>
> _______________________
>
> The CEO of 'NEXUS Magazine' said
> "The Government said we can all
> talk about anything except crap
> about the Government dealing in drugs".
>
> YouTube Deleted Alien Evidence UFO Proof ... 2_ET_Yes_or_No.AVI
> Video Deleted by YouTube for "inappropriate content".http://www.youtube.com/DennyEarthSpace
>
> Sir Gilligan Horry's Video Will Save The World!!! ...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXXRTPGt7Pc
> "Show The World !!! ... Please Copy. Please Share".
>
> Mr HVAC and Hagar are ...http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj256/AliensUFOsProof/Mr_HVAC_Haga...
>
> _______________________

YouTubes for me are clunky, meaning slow to load and often the video
result is marginal at best, not to mention loading up my temporary
hard-disk space that drags everything else down to its knees. I guess
I’m not as wealthy as most.

I prefer to read plain text and look at JPGs or GIF images, because
it’s faster and I can still multitask without running out of computer
capability.

~ BG

Androcles
2010-07-20 21:23:27 EST

"Mark Earnest" <gmearnest@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0d9de77a-3b71-4c2e-9e63-6e41c50eb3a8@d8g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...

If Earth/Moon went rogue, everyone would have to go into cryonic
hibernation for a few months or years, depending on how
far we were going, and then when it successfully migrated to a better,
newer star, the star itself could thaw us all out.

In such a way, Earth could go on for more than tens of billions of
years.
Just wonder what would happen when all the molten interiors
solidified.
Would Earth no longer be counted among the living?
========================================
If pigs could fly they'd be pigeons.
In hypothetical sentences introduced by 'if' and referring to
past time, where conditions are to be deemed 'unfulfilled',
the verb will regularly be found in the pluperfect subjunctive,
in both protasis and apodosis.
-- Donet, "Principles of Elementary Latin Syntax"


Brad Guth
2010-07-20 21:27:23 EST
On Jul 20, 6:04 pm, Mark Earnest <gmearn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jul 20, 6:56 pm, Brad Guth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Can complex intelligent life manage without a sun? (seems technically
> > doable)
>
> > First a silly question:
> > On average, how many main sequence stars of 0.5<10 Ms w/planets,
> > moons, whatever asteroids and a similar Oort cloud have snuffed out by
> > now?
>
> > My swag:  It seems 14 billion years thus far would have to include
> > most if not at least a high percentage of them, especially of those
> > having been >2 Ms.  Obviously those main sequence stars that started
> > off below 0.5 Ms should have a much longer lifespan (<40 billion
> > years), and of those near 10 Ms are going to have a tough time
> > exceeding a couple hundred million years before turning themselves
> > into a red supergiant and then a relatively sudden morph into a white
> > dwarf of perhaps <1.25 Ms (roughly an 8th of their original bulk that
> > was likely holding onto any number of planets and other stuff).
>
> > Anyway you’d care to argue this one, that’s a lot of tidal radii loss
> > that’ll tend to make whatever planets along with their moons and of
> > course most everything else that isn’t consumed via the red giant
> > phase, into rogue items.  So, it could be argued that it’s pretty busy
> > out there, with dark icy planets and their moons (for the most part
> > inert and lifeless) going pretty much every which way.
>
> > Perhaps complex life must have happened for those rogue planets of
> > Sirius(B) while the light was extremely good, so why not the demise of
> > Sirius(B) having shared a little something of spare planets, proto-
> > moons and even complex life for us?
>
> > Without our sun we would not likely stick with our other planets (not
> > even Jupiter unless we exited as a pair in roughly the same
> > trajectory), although holding onto our moon/Selene gives us access to
> > a continuous tidal binding force of 2e20 Newtons/sec, or make that
> > 2e20 Joules worth of continuous energy that we wouldn’t otherwise
> > have.  Even setting up a lunar camp/habitat as an off-world outpost,
> > as safely packaged within our moon/Selene should not be technically
> > insurmountable.  The equatorial bulge of Earth should act as a
> > sufficient spherical mascon doughnut/love-handle that’ll keep that
> > physically dark moon within it’s existing orbital trek, as well or
> > better off than having the sun.
>
> > Of course Earth would have become iced over and that exposed surface w/
> > o sunlight would chill at roughly 40 K, along with that naked moon
> > might see its average surface temperature at 20 K.
>
> > However, as opposed to folks giving up and certain death, whereas life
> > under a protective layer of ice can't be half bad, unless you're some
> > kind of sadistic Semite that's too much of a devout ZNR serial pervert
> > to ever change anything for the better.
>
> > If the sun were to suddenly vanish (measurably dimming over the next
> > thousand years), or more likely gradually go through its red-giant
> > phase and then nova postal, much like Sirius(B) as clearly having lost
> > it's tidal radii grip on its planets, as such we might still get along
> > just fine and dandy on our very dark and icy planet that’s no longer
> > orbiting our sun that went kaput on us, along with our naked moon
> > that’s also always dark and perhaps only worth 20 K (at least the
> > truly rich and powerful would have no problems surviving such cold).
> > Of course it would be a whole lot nicer if our 40 K frozen to death
> > Earth were a moon of Jupiter or even Saturn, but no such luck.
>
> > In spite of our outside 40 K surface environment, there's still more
> > than a sufficient geothermal cache, plus loads of thorium, uranium and
> > other essential elements or minerals within Earth to last us millions
> > if not a few billions of years, that is as long as the global
> > population wasn’t more than 700 million (64 million, as roughly less
> > than 1% of today’s population might be best),  and thereby always
> > enough resources to even keep our bogus and gales-flag wars ongoing so
> > that our Rothschilds and their Queen will always be happy campers.
>
> > Astronomy wise, imagine how crystal clear our perpetual nighttime sky
> > would always be for astronomy buffs (especially nifty for that IR
> > spectrum), as nearly always perfectly cloudless (other than scant
> > vapors that’ll instantly crystallize from our nuclear energy cooling
> > towers and geothermal driven energy), whereas all of our civilization
> > other than our "Extreme Winter Olympics" would be situated under a
> > thick layer of protective ice.  Being such a rogue icy planet has it's
> > biodiversity survival advantages, especially for safely accomplishing
> > interstellar and multigenerational treks.
>
> > If some of us were actually half as good as Einstein at physics,
> > science and applied technology (William Mook is supposedly way smarter
> > than Einstein) , as such we might even be capable of steering our
> > rogue icy planet w/moon towards a suitably passive solar system.  Try
> > to always remember that a thick layer of ice is actually providing a
> > very good thermal insulator, as well as offering the best kind of
> > radiation shield, plus it’s relatively asteroid impact resistant to
> > boot, and as long as we hold onto that pesky moon there’s no good
> > reason(s) to believe Earth along with its internal cache of thorium
> > and uranium will ever become geologically dead and inert to the core
> > like Mars.
>
> > Can complex intelligent life (such as us humans) manage without a sun?
>
> > At least for a few generations should not be all that insurmountable.
> > So basically when push comes down to shove, we’re good to go.
>
> > Brad Guth / Blog and my Google document pages:
> >  http://bradguth.blogspot.com/
> >  http://docs.google.com/View?id=ddsdxhv_0hrm5bdfj
> >  Brad Guth, Brad_Guth, Brad.Guth, BradGuth, BG / “Guth Usenet”
>
> If Earth/Moon went rogue, everyone would have to go into cryonic
> hibernation for a few months or years, depending on how
> far we were going, and then when it successfully migrated to a better,
> newer star, the star itself could thaw us all out.
>
> In such a way, Earth could go on for more than tens of billions of
> years.
> Just wonder what would happen when all the molten interiors
> solidified.
> Would Earth no longer be counted among the living?

First of all, this loss of sun doesn't happen overnight (not even for
Sirius B). We're talking about many thousands of years for getting
prepared.

Secondly, while under a protective thick layer of ice plus going a few
meters underground, having lost our sun would make little if any
difference as long as you didn't want to go outside in the buff.

Eventually the interior of Earth would age and via half life cycles
lose most of its thorium and uranium benefits, subsequently cooling to
something less than desirable (though we're talking billions of years
down the road). However, as long as we manage to hold onto our moon/
Selene, there's 2e20 N/sec or 2e20 Joules worth of tidal force/energy
that's always going somewhere and doing something.

~ BG

Mark Earnest
2010-07-20 21:48:04 EST
On Jul 20, 8:23 pm, "Androcles" <Headmas...@Hogwarts.physics_z> wrote:
> "Mark Earnest" <gmearn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:0d9de77a-3b71-4c2e-9e63-6e41c50eb3a8@d8g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
>
> If Earth/Moon went rogue, everyone would have to go into cryonic
> hibernation for a few months or years, depending on how
> far we were going, and then when it successfully migrated to a better,
> newer star, the star itself could thaw us all out.
>
> In such a way, Earth could go on for more than tens of billions of
> years.
> Just wonder what would happen when all the molten interiors
> solidified.
> Would Earth no longer be counted among the living?
> ========================================
> If pigs could fly they'd be pigeons.


I'm not trying to presume to solve the fate of the Earth in five
billion years or so,
I'm just throwing stuff out to think about.




> In hypothetical sentences introduced by 'if' and referring to
>  past time, where conditions are to be deemed 'unfulfilled',
>  the verb will regularly be found in the pluperfect subjunctive,
>  in both protasis and apodosis.
> -- Donet, "Principles of Elementary Latin Syntax"


Mark Earnest
2010-07-20 21:48:53 EST
On Jul 20, 8:27 pm, Brad Guth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 20, 6:04 pm, Mark Earnest <gmearn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 20, 6:56 pm, Brad Guth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Can complex intelligent life manage without a sun? (seems technically
> > > doable)
>
> > > First a silly question:
> > > On average, how many main sequence stars of 0.5<10 Ms w/planets,
> > > moons, whatever asteroids and a similar Oort cloud have snuffed out by
> > > now?
>
> > > My swag:  It seems 14 billion years thus far would have to include
> > > most if not at least a high percentage of them, especially of those
> > > having been >2 Ms.  Obviously those main sequence stars that started
> > > off below 0.5 Ms should have a much longer lifespan (<40 billion
> > > years), and of those near 10 Ms are going to have a tough time
> > > exceeding a couple hundred million years before turning themselves
> > > into a red supergiant and then a relatively sudden morph into a white
> > > dwarf of perhaps <1.25 Ms (roughly an 8th of their original bulk that
> > > was likely holding onto any number of planets and other stuff).
>
> > > Anyway you’d care to argue this one, that’s a lot of tidal radii loss
> > > that’ll tend to make whatever planets along with their moons and of
> > > course most everything else that isn’t consumed via the red giant
> > > phase, into rogue items.  So, it could be argued that it’s pretty busy
> > > out there, with dark icy planets and their moons (for the most part
> > > inert and lifeless) going pretty much every which way.
>
> > > Perhaps complex life must have happened for those rogue planets of
> > > Sirius(B) while the light was extremely good, so why not the demise of
> > > Sirius(B) having shared a little something of spare planets, proto-
> > > moons and even complex life for us?
>
> > > Without our sun we would not likely stick with our other planets (not
> > > even Jupiter unless we exited as a pair in roughly the same
> > > trajectory), although holding onto our moon/Selene gives us access to
> > > a continuous tidal binding force of 2e20 Newtons/sec, or make that
> > > 2e20 Joules worth of continuous energy that we wouldn’t otherwise
> > > have.  Even setting up a lunar camp/habitat as an off-world outpost,
> > > as safely packaged within our moon/Selene should not be technically
> > > insurmountable.  The equatorial bulge of Earth should act as a
> > > sufficient spherical mascon doughnut/love-handle that’ll keep that
> > > physically dark moon within it’s existing orbital trek, as well or
> > > better off than having the sun.
>
> > > Of course Earth would have become iced over and that exposed surface w/
> > > o sunlight would chill at roughly 40 K, along with that naked moon
> > > might see its average surface temperature at 20 K.
>
> > > However, as opposed to folks giving up and certain death, whereas life
> > > under a protective layer of ice can't be half bad, unless you're some
> > > kind of sadistic Semite that's too much of a devout ZNR serial pervert
> > > to ever change anything for the better.
>
> > > If the sun were to suddenly vanish (measurably dimming over the next
> > > thousand years), or more likely gradually go through its red-giant
> > > phase and then nova postal, much like Sirius(B) as clearly having lost
> > > it's tidal radii grip on its planets, as such we might still get along
> > > just fine and dandy on our very dark and icy planet that’s no longer
> > > orbiting our sun that went kaput on us, along with our naked moon
> > > that’s also always dark and perhaps only worth 20 K (at least the
> > > truly rich and powerful would have no problems surviving such cold).
> > > Of course it would be a whole lot nicer if our 40 K frozen to death
> > > Earth were a moon of Jupiter or even Saturn, but no such luck.
>
> > > In spite of our outside 40 K surface environment, there's still more
> > > than a sufficient geothermal cache, plus loads of thorium, uranium and
> > > other essential elements or minerals within Earth to last us millions
> > > if not a few billions of years, that is as long as the global
> > > population wasn’t more than 700 million (64 million, as roughly less
> > > than 1% of today’s population might be best),  and thereby always
> > > enough resources to even keep our bogus and gales-flag wars ongoing so
> > > that our Rothschilds and their Queen will always be happy campers.
>
> > > Astronomy wise, imagine how crystal clear our perpetual nighttime sky
> > > would always be for astronomy buffs (especially nifty for that IR
> > > spectrum), as nearly always perfectly cloudless (other than scant
> > > vapors that’ll instantly crystallize from our nuclear energy cooling
> > > towers and geothermal driven energy), whereas all of our civilization
> > > other than our "Extreme Winter Olympics" would be situated under a
> > > thick layer of protective ice.  Being such a rogue icy planet has it's
> > > biodiversity survival advantages, especially for safely accomplishing
> > > interstellar and multigenerational treks.
>
> > > If some of us were actually half as good as Einstein at physics,
> > > science and applied technology (William Mook is supposedly way smarter
> > > than Einstein) , as such we might even be capable of steering our
> > > rogue icy planet w/moon towards a suitably passive solar system.  Try
> > > to always remember that a thick layer of ice is actually providing a
> > > very good thermal insulator, as well as offering the best kind of
> > > radiation shield, plus it’s relatively asteroid impact resistant to
> > > boot, and as long as we hold onto that pesky moon there’s no good
> > > reason(s) to believe Earth along with its internal cache of thorium
> > > and uranium will ever become geologically dead and inert to the core
> > > like Mars.
>
> > > Can complex intelligent life (such as us humans) manage without a sun?
>
> > > At least for a few generations should not be all that insurmountable.
> > > So basically when push comes down to shove, we’re good to go.
>
> > > Brad Guth / Blog and my Google document pages:
> > >  http://bradguth.blogspot.com/
> > >  http://docs.google.com/View?id=ddsdxhv_0hrm5bdfj
> > >  Brad Guth, Brad_Guth, Brad.Guth, BradGuth, BG / “Guth Usenet”
>
> > If Earth/Moon went rogue, everyone would have to go into cryonic
> > hibernation for a few months or years, depending on how
> > far we were going, and then when it successfully migrated to a better,
> > newer star, the star itself could thaw us all out.
>
> > In such a way, Earth could go on for more than tens of billions of
> > years.
> > Just wonder what would happen when all the molten interiors
> > solidified.
> > Would Earth no longer be counted among the living?
>
> First of all, this loss of sun doesn't happen overnight (not even for
> Sirius B).  We're talking about many thousands of years for getting
> prepared.
>
> Secondly, while under a protective thick layer of ice plus going a few
> meters underground, having lost our sun would make little if any
> difference as long as you didn't want to go outside in the buff.
>
> Eventually the interior of Earth would age and via half life cycles
> lose most of its thorium and uranium benefits, subsequently cooling to
> something less than desirable (though we're talking billions of years
> down the road).  However, as long as we manage to hold onto our moon/
> Selene, there's 2e20 N/sec or 2e20 Joules worth of tidal force/energy
> that's always going somewhere and doing something.
>
>  ~ BG- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

If we still have a molten world in five billion years, it seems there
would be no problem with keeping warm.

Brad Guth
2010-07-20 22:15:03 EST
On Jul 20, 6:48 pm, Mark Earnest <gmearn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jul 20, 8:23 pm, "Androcles" <Headmas...@Hogwarts.physics_z> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "Mark Earnest" <gmearn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:0d9de77a-3b71-4c2e-9e63-6e41c50eb3a8@d8g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > If Earth/Moon went rogue, everyone would have to go into cryonic
> > hibernation for a few months or years, depending on how
> > far we were going, and then when it successfully migrated to a better,
> > newer star, the star itself could thaw us all out.
>
> > In such a way, Earth could go on for more than tens of billions of
> > years.
> > Just wonder what would happen when all the molten interiors
> > solidified.
> > Would Earth no longer be counted among the living?
> > ========================================
> > If pigs could fly they'd be pigeons.
>
> I'm not trying to presume to solve the fate of the Earth in five
> billion years or so,
> I'm just throwing stuff out to think about.
>
> > In hypothetical sentences introduced by 'if' and referring to
> >  past time, where conditions are to be deemed 'unfulfilled',
> >  the verb will regularly be found in the pluperfect subjunctive,
> >  in both protasis and apodosis.
> > -- Donet, "Principles of Elementary Latin Syntax"

Which is exactly the idea here. Eventually it'll take open minds
doing exactly what others like yourself are willing to offer, and
that's contributing in a positive/constructive way so that each good/
bad idea feeds the next natural progression of our deductively
figuring this out.

~ BG


Androcles
2010-07-20 22:36:39 EST

"Mark Earnest" <gmearnest@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c760476a-77d7-49a0-b47e-517679665184@d37g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 20, 8:23 pm, "Androcles" <Headmas...@Hogwarts.physics_z> wrote:
> "Mark Earnest" <gmearn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:0d9de77a-3b71-4c2e-9e63-6e41c50eb3a8@d8g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
>
> If Earth/Moon went rogue, everyone would have to go into cryonic
> hibernation for a few months or years, depending on how
> far we were going, and then when it successfully migrated to a better,
> newer star, the star itself could thaw us all out.
>
> In such a way, Earth could go on for more than tens of billions of
> years.
> Just wonder what would happen when all the molten interiors
> solidified.
> Would Earth no longer be counted among the living?
> ========================================
> If pigs could fly they'd be pigeons.


I'm not trying to presume to solve the fate of the Earth in five
billion years or so,
I'm just throwing stuff out to think about.
=====================================
<yawn>



> In hypothetical sentences introduced by 'if' and referring to
> past time, where conditions are to be deemed 'unfulfilled',
> the verb will regularly be found in the pluperfect subjunctive,
> in both protasis and apodosis.
> -- Donet, "Principles of Elementary Latin Syntax"


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