Research Discussion: New Hubble Pictures Suggest Milky Way Fell Together

New Hubble Pictures Suggest Milky Way Fell Together
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Chatnoir
2010-05-13 09:36:22 EST
http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/58873/title/New_Hubble_pictures_suggest_Milky_Way_fell_together

New Hubble pictures suggest Milky Way fell together
Evidence goes against prevailing galaxy formation scenario
By Ron Cowen Web edition : Tuesday, May 4th, 2010 Text Size



A preliminary analysis of elderly stars in the Milky Way appears to
strike a blow against the prevailing theory of galaxy formation. The
study suggests that several large and seemingly disparate chunks of
the Milky Way galaxy formed at the same time from the collapse of a
single blob of gas and dust.

That’s in direct contrast to the leading galaxy-formation scenario,
which holds that the Milky Way and other galaxies began small and grew
bit by bit for the most part, gravitationally acquiring intergalactic
gas and dust and merging with galaxies in their immediate
neighborhood.

The new evidence, which astronomers emphasize is only tentative, comes
from a new, ongoing study of a familiar globular cluster — a dense,
elderly grouping of more than a million Milky Way stars collectively
known as 47 Tucanae. Earlier this year, Harvey Richer of the
University of British Columbia in Canada and his colleagues began
examining 47 Tucanae with two Hubble Space Telescope cameras — the
newly installed Wide Field Camera 3 and the Advanced Camera for
Surveys, which stopped working early in 2007 but was revived by
astronauts during the servicing mission last year.

The cluster lies near but not inside the Milky Way’s bulge, a massive
concentration of stars that surrounds the galaxy’s core. But because
the cluster shares several properties with the bulge, such as chemical
composition and orbital motion, astronomers consider the age of 47
Tucanae a good proxy for that of the bulge.

An analysis of the Hubble portrait, which includes one of the deepest
infrared views ever recorded, reveals that 47 Tucanae, and therefore
the Milky Way’s bulge, formed between 11 billion and 12 billion years
ago, Richer reported May 4 at a symposium on stellar evolution at the
Space Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore. He said previous age
estimates that did not use the new Hubble camera and put the cluster
at a more youthful 9 billion years old are simply not correct.

“This is not a young cluster. That’s definitive,” Richer said. But he
cautioned that both the analysis and observations of 47 Tucanae are
ongoing, so the precise age determination is still “very preliminary.”



The new age determination places the bulge at roughly the same vintage
as the halo of the Milky Way, a vast spherical region that extends to
the outskirts of the galaxy and envelops the flattened disk containing
the Milky Way’s signature spiral arms,.

Researchers had previously determined the halo’s age by studying
several globular clusters that lie within it. The similarity in age of
47 Tucanae and the galactic halo suggests that the two structures may
have formed simultaneously, in one giant monolithic gravitational
collapse of material, Richer said. “It may have been that major
components of the galaxy pretty much formed everywhere at the same
time very early on and other bits and pieces came along later,” he
noted.

A younger age for the bulge would have indicated that the galaxy grew
more gradually and from the outside in, with the halo forming first
and the central bulge arising a few billion years later.

But if the age estimate holds up, it would appear to be in conflict
with the prescription for galaxy formation dictated by the cold dark
matter theory, which holds that galaxies began as small fry that built
themselves up by stealing gas and stars from their neighbors.

Evidence that the halo and the bulge of the Milky Way formed together
could be seen either as a cosmic coincidence or a finding that
suggests some previously unknown episode of violence early in the
galaxy’s history, commented Rosie Wyse of Johns Hopkins University in
Baltimore, who was not a collaborator on the study.

One possibility, she notes, is that the Milky Way suffered a major
collision not long after its birth that drove material from the halo
into the central part of the galaxy, forming the bulge. That could
also explain why the mass of stars in the bulge is about 10 times
heavier than that in the halo, she said.

The finding does not rule out the possibility that parts of the Milky
Way grew by accreting, or gravitationally accumulating material, from
neighbors, Richer said. Indeed, the Milky Way today continues to grow
by pulling in small neighboring galaxies, such as the Sagittarius
dwarf galaxy

Bert
2010-05-13 12:22:42 EST
On May 13, 9:36 am, chatnoir <wolfbat3...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/58873/title/New_Hubble_pic...
>
> New Hubble pictures suggest Milky Way fell together
> Evidence goes against prevailing galaxy formation scenario
> By Ron Cowen Web edition : Tuesday, May 4th, 2010   Text Size
>
> A preliminary analysis of elderly stars in the Milky Way appears to
> strike a blow against the prevailing theory of galaxy formation. The
> study suggests that several large and seemingly disparate chunks of
> the Milky Way galaxy formed at the same time from the collapse of a
> single blob of gas and dust.
>
> That’s in direct contrast to the leading galaxy-formation scenario,
> which holds that the Milky Way and other galaxies began small and grew
> bit by bit for the most part, gravitationally acquiring intergalactic
> gas and dust and merging with galaxies in their immediate
> neighborhood.
>
> The new evidence, which astronomers emphasize is only tentative, comes
> from a new, ongoing study of a familiar globular cluster — a dense,
> elderly grouping of more than a million Milky Way stars collectively
> known as 47 Tucanae. Earlier this year, Harvey Richer of the
> University of British Columbia in Canada and his colleagues began
> examining 47 Tucanae with two Hubble Space Telescope cameras — the
> newly installed Wide Field Camera 3 and the Advanced Camera for
> Surveys, which stopped working early in 2007 but was revived by
> astronauts during the servicing mission last year.
>
> The cluster lies near but not inside the Milky Way’s bulge, a massive
> concentration of stars that surrounds the galaxy’s core. But because
> the cluster shares several properties with the bulge, such as chemical
> composition and orbital motion, astronomers consider the age of 47
> Tucanae a good proxy for that of the bulge.
>
> An analysis of the Hubble portrait, which includes one of the deepest
> infrared views ever recorded, reveals that 47 Tucanae, and therefore
> the Milky Way’s bulge, formed between 11 billion and 12 billion years
> ago, Richer reported May 4 at a symposium on stellar evolution at the
> Space Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore. He said previous age
> estimates that did not use the new Hubble camera and put the cluster
> at a more youthful 9 billion years old are simply not correct.
>
> “This is not a young cluster. That’s definitive,” Richer said. But he
> cautioned that both the analysis and observations of 47 Tucanae are
> ongoing, so the precise age determination is still “very preliminary.”
>
> The new age determination places the bulge at roughly the same vintage
> as the halo of the Milky Way, a vast spherical region that extends to
> the outskirts of the galaxy and envelops the flattened disk containing
> the Milky Way’s signature spiral arms,.
>
> Researchers had previously determined the halo’s age by studying
> several globular clusters that lie within it. The similarity in age of
> 47 Tucanae and the galactic halo suggests that the two structures may
> have formed simultaneously, in one giant monolithic gravitational
> collapse of material, Richer said. “It may have been that major
> components of the galaxy pretty much formed everywhere at the same
> time very early on and other bits and pieces came along later,” he
> noted.
>
> A younger age for the bulge would have indicated that the galaxy grew
> more gradually and from the outside in, with the halo forming first
> and the central bulge arising a few billion years later.
>
> But if the age estimate holds up, it would appear to be in conflict
> with the prescription for galaxy formation dictated by the cold dark
> matter theory, which holds that galaxies began as small fry that built
> themselves up by stealing gas and stars from their neighbors.
>
> Evidence that the halo and the bulge of the Milky Way formed together
> could be seen either as a cosmic coincidence or a finding that
> suggests some previously unknown episode of violence early in the
> galaxy’s history, commented Rosie Wyse of Johns Hopkins University in
> Baltimore, who was not a collaborator on the study.
>
> One possibility, she notes, is that the Milky Way suffered a major
> collision not long after its birth that drove material from the halo
> into the central part of the galaxy, forming the bulge. That could
> also explain why the mass of stars in the bulge is about 10 times
> heavier than that in the halo, she said.
>
> The finding does not rule out the possibility that parts of the Milky
> Way grew by accreting, or gravitationally accumulating material, from
> neighbors, Richer said. Indeed, the Milky Way today continues to grow
> by pulling in small neighboring galaxies, such as the Sagittarius
> dwarf galaxy

Falling in is no surprize. Falling out proves centrafugal force is
stronger than gavity force "at times" But gravitation wins in the
end. All part opf my gravity space curve theory Trebert

Brad Guth
2010-05-13 13:08:54 EST
On May 13, 9:22 am, bert <herbertglazie...@msn.com> wrote:
> On May 13, 9:36 am, chatnoir <wolfbat3...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/58873/title/New_Hubble_pic...
>
> > New Hubble pictures suggest Milky Way fell together
> > Evidence goes against prevailing galaxy formation scenario
> > By Ron Cowen Web edition : Tuesday, May 4th, 2010   Text Size
>
> > A preliminary analysis of elderly stars in the Milky Way appears to
> > strike a blow against the prevailing theory of galaxy formation. The
> > study suggests that several large and seemingly disparate chunks of
> > the Milky Way galaxy formed at the same time from the collapse of a
> > single blob of gas and dust.
>
> > That’s in direct contrast to the leading galaxy-formation scenario,
> > which holds that the Milky Way and other galaxies began small and grew
> > bit by bit for the most part, gravitationally acquiring intergalactic
> > gas and dust and merging with galaxies in their immediate
> > neighborhood.
>
> > The new evidence, which astronomers emphasize is only tentative, comes
> > from a new, ongoing study of a familiar globular cluster — a dense,
> > elderly grouping of more than a million Milky Way stars collectively
> > known as 47 Tucanae. Earlier this year, Harvey Richer of the
> > University of British Columbia in Canada and his colleagues began
> > examining 47 Tucanae with two Hubble Space Telescope cameras — the
> > newly installed Wide Field Camera 3 and the Advanced Camera for
> > Surveys, which stopped working early in 2007 but was revived by
> > astronauts during the servicing mission last year.
>
> > The cluster lies near but not inside the Milky Way’s bulge, a massive
> > concentration of stars that surrounds the galaxy’s core. But because
> > the cluster shares several properties with the bulge, such as chemical
> > composition and orbital motion, astronomers consider the age of 47
> > Tucanae a good proxy for that of the bulge.
>
> > An analysis of the Hubble portrait, which includes one of the deepest
> > infrared views ever recorded, reveals that 47 Tucanae, and therefore
> > the Milky Way’s bulge, formed between 11 billion and 12 billion years
> > ago, Richer reported May 4 at a symposium on stellar evolution at the
> > Space Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore. He said previous age
> > estimates that did not use the new Hubble camera and put the cluster
> > at a more youthful 9 billion years old are simply not correct.
>
> > “This is not a young cluster. That’s definitive,” Richer said. But he
> > cautioned that both the analysis and observations of 47 Tucanae are
> > ongoing, so the precise age determination is still “very preliminary.”
>
> > The new age determination places the bulge at roughly the same vintage
> > as the halo of the Milky Way, a vast spherical region that extends to
> > the outskirts of the galaxy and envelops the flattened disk containing
> > the Milky Way’s signature spiral arms,.
>
> > Researchers had previously determined the halo’s age by studying
> > several globular clusters that lie within it. The similarity in age of
> > 47 Tucanae and the galactic halo suggests that the two structures may
> > have formed simultaneously, in one giant monolithic gravitational
> > collapse of material, Richer said. “It may have been that major
> > components of the galaxy pretty much formed everywhere at the same
> > time very early on and other bits and pieces came along later,” he
> > noted.
>
> > A younger age for the bulge would have indicated that the galaxy grew
> > more gradually and from the outside in, with the halo forming first
> > and the central bulge arising a few billion years later.
>
> > But if the age estimate holds up, it would appear to be in conflict
> > with the prescription for galaxy formation dictated by the cold dark
> > matter theory, which holds that galaxies began as small fry that built
> > themselves up by stealing gas and stars from their neighbors.
>
> > Evidence that the halo and the bulge of the Milky Way formed together
> > could be seen either as a cosmic coincidence or a finding that
> > suggests some previously unknown episode of violence early in the
> > galaxy’s history, commented Rosie Wyse of Johns Hopkins University in
> > Baltimore, who was not a collaborator on the study.
>
> > One possibility, she notes, is that the Milky Way suffered a major
> > collision not long after its birth that drove material from the halo
> > into the central part of the galaxy, forming the bulge. That could
> > also explain why the mass of stars in the bulge is about 10 times
> > heavier than that in the halo, she said.
>
> > The finding does not rule out the possibility that parts of the Milky
> > Way grew by accreting, or gravitationally accumulating material, from
> > neighbors, Richer said. Indeed, the Milky Way today continues to grow
> > by pulling in small neighboring galaxies, such as the Sagittarius
> > dwarf galaxy
>
> Falling in is no surprise. Falling out proves centrifugal force is
> stronger than gravity force "at times" But gravitation wins in the
> end.  All part of my gravity space curve theory  Trebert

A relatively small black hole can produce a galaxy, though perhaps it
can just as easily consume a galaxy.

~ BG

Bert
2010-05-14 08:25:54 EST
On May 13, 1:08 pm, Brad Guth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 13, 9:22 am, bert <herbertglazie...@msn.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 13, 9:36 am, chatnoir <wolfbat3...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > >http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/58873/title/New_Hubble_pic...
>
> > > New Hubble pictures suggest Milky Way fell together
> > > Evidence goes against prevailing galaxy formation scenario
> > > By Ron Cowen Web edition : Tuesday, May 4th, 2010   Text Size
>
> > > A preliminary analysis of elderly stars in the Milky Way appears to
> > > strike a blow against the prevailing theory of galaxy formation. The
> > > study suggests that several large and seemingly disparate chunks of
> > > the Milky Way galaxy formed at the same time from the collapse of a
> > > single blob of gas and dust.
>
> > > That’s in direct contrast to the leading galaxy-formation scenario,
> > > which holds that the Milky Way and other galaxies began small and grew
> > > bit by bit for the most part, gravitationally acquiring intergalactic
> > > gas and dust and merging with galaxies in their immediate
> > > neighborhood.
>
> > > The new evidence, which astronomers emphasize is only tentative, comes
> > > from a new, ongoing study of a familiar globular cluster — a dense,
> > > elderly grouping of more than a million Milky Way stars collectively
> > > known as 47 Tucanae. Earlier this year, Harvey Richer of the
> > > University of British Columbia in Canada and his colleagues began
> > > examining 47 Tucanae with two Hubble Space Telescope cameras — the
> > > newly installed Wide Field Camera 3 and the Advanced Camera for
> > > Surveys, which stopped working early in 2007 but was revived by
> > > astronauts during the servicing mission last year.
>
> > > The cluster lies near but not inside the Milky Way’s bulge, a massive
> > > concentration of stars that surrounds the galaxy’s core. But because
> > > the cluster shares several properties with the bulge, such as chemical
> > > composition and orbital motion, astronomers consider the age of 47
> > > Tucanae a good proxy for that of the bulge.
>
> > > An analysis of the Hubble portrait, which includes one of the deepest
> > > infrared views ever recorded, reveals that 47 Tucanae, and therefore
> > > the Milky Way’s bulge, formed between 11 billion and 12 billion years
> > > ago, Richer reported May 4 at a symposium on stellar evolution at the
> > > Space Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore. He said previous age
> > > estimates that did not use the new Hubble camera and put the cluster
> > > at a more youthful 9 billion years old are simply not correct.
>
> > > “This is not a young cluster. That’s definitive,” Richer said. But he
> > > cautioned that both the analysis and observations of 47 Tucanae are
> > > ongoing, so the precise age determination is still “very preliminary.”
>
> > > The new age determination places the bulge at roughly the same vintage
> > > as the halo of the Milky Way, a vast spherical region that extends to
> > > the outskirts of the galaxy and envelops the flattened disk containing
> > > the Milky Way’s signature spiral arms,.
>
> > > Researchers had previously determined the halo’s age by studying
> > > several globular clusters that lie within it. The similarity in age of
> > > 47 Tucanae and the galactic halo suggests that the two structures may
> > > have formed simultaneously, in one giant monolithic gravitational
> > > collapse of material, Richer said. “It may have been that major
> > > components of the galaxy pretty much formed everywhere at the same
> > > time very early on and other bits and pieces came along later,” he
> > > noted.
>
> > > A younger age for the bulge would have indicated that the galaxy grew
> > > more gradually and from the outside in, with the halo forming first
> > > and the central bulge arising a few billion years later.
>
> > > But if the age estimate holds up, it would appear to be in conflict
> > > with the prescription for galaxy formation dictated by the cold dark
> > > matter theory, which holds that galaxies began as small fry that built
> > > themselves up by stealing gas and stars from their neighbors.
>
> > > Evidence that the halo and the bulge of the Milky Way formed together
> > > could be seen either as a cosmic coincidence or a finding that
> > > suggests some previously unknown episode of violence early in the
> > > galaxy’s history, commented Rosie Wyse of Johns Hopkins University in
> > > Baltimore, who was not a collaborator on the study.
>
> > > One possibility, she notes, is that the Milky Way suffered a major
> > > collision not long after its birth that drove material from the halo
> > > into the central part of the galaxy, forming the bulge. That could
> > > also explain why the mass of stars in the bulge is about 10 times
> > > heavier than that in the halo, she said.
>
> > > The finding does not rule out the possibility that parts of the Milky
> > > Way grew by accreting, or gravitationally accumulating material, from
> > > neighbors, Richer said. Indeed, the Milky Way today continues to grow
> > > by pulling in small neighboring galaxies, such as the Sagittarius
> > > dwarf galaxy
>
> > Falling in is no surprise. Falling out proves centrifugal force is
> > stronger than gravity force "at times" But gravitation wins in the
> > end.  All part of my gravity space curve theory  Trebert
>
> A relatively small black hole can produce a galaxy, though perhaps it
> can just as easily consume a galaxy.
>
>  ~ BG- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Black hole produces "gamma ray bursts" GRB Just put up a post on GRB
that I think is quite profound O ya TreBert

Hagar
2010-05-14 10:15:46 EST

"bert" <herbertglazier79@msn.com> wrote in message
news:ead1e3d8-3da8-4471-8f3a-67cc0f1f3ca8@g21g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
On May 13, 1:08 pm, Brad Guth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 13, 9:22 am, bert <herbertglazie...@msn.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 13, 9:36 am, chatnoir <wolfbat3...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > >http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/58873/title/New_Hubble_pic...
>
> > > New Hubble pictures suggest Milky Way fell together
> > > Evidence goes against prevailing galaxy formation scenario
> > > By Ron Cowen Web edition : Tuesday, May 4th, 2010 Text Size
>
> > > A preliminary analysis of elderly stars in the Milky Way appears to
> > > strike a blow against the prevailing theory of galaxy formation. The
> > > study suggests that several large and seemingly disparate chunks of
> > > the Milky Way galaxy formed at the same time from the collapse of a
> > > single blob of gas and dust.
>
> > > That\ufffds in direct contrast to the leading galaxy-formation scenario,
> > > which holds that the Milky Way and other galaxies began small and grew
> > > bit by bit for the most part, gravitationally acquiring intergalactic
> > > gas and dust and merging with galaxies in their immediate
> > > neighborhood.
>
> > > The new evidence, which astronomers emphasize is only tentative, comes
> > > from a new, ongoing study of a familiar globular cluster \ufffd a dense,
> > > elderly grouping of more than a million Milky Way stars collectively
> > > known as 47 Tucanae. Earlier this year, Harvey Richer of the
> > > University of British Columbia in Canada and his colleagues began
> > > examining 47 Tucanae with two Hubble Space Telescope cameras \ufffd the
> > > newly installed Wide Field Camera 3 and the Advanced Camera for
> > > Surveys, which stopped working early in 2007 but was revived by
> > > astronauts during the servicing mission last year.
>
> > > The cluster lies near but not inside the Milky Way\ufffds bulge, a massive
> > > concentration of stars that surrounds the galaxy\ufffds core. But because
> > > the cluster shares several properties with the bulge, such as chemical
> > > composition and orbital motion, astronomers consider the age of 47
> > > Tucanae a good proxy for that of the bulge.
>
> > > An analysis of the Hubble portrait, which includes one of the deepest
> > > infrared views ever recorded, reveals that 47 Tucanae, and therefore
> > > the Milky Way\ufffds bulge, formed between 11 billion and 12 billion years
> > > ago, Richer reported May 4 at a symposium on stellar evolution at the
> > > Space Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore. He said previous age
> > > estimates that did not use the new Hubble camera and put the cluster
> > > at a more youthful 9 billion years old are simply not correct.
>
> > > \ufffdThis is not a young cluster. That\ufffds definitive,\ufffd Richer said. But he
> > > cautioned that both the analysis and observations of 47 Tucanae are
> > > ongoing, so the precise age determination is still \ufffdvery preliminary.\ufffd
>
> > > The new age determination places the bulge at roughly the same vintage
> > > as the halo of the Milky Way, a vast spherical region that extends to
> > > the outskirts of the galaxy and envelops the flattened disk containing
> > > the Milky Way\ufffds signature spiral arms,.
>
> > > Researchers had previously determined the halo\ufffds age by studying
> > > several globular clusters that lie within it. The similarity in age of
> > > 47 Tucanae and the galactic halo suggests that the two structures may
> > > have formed simultaneously, in one giant monolithic gravitational
> > > collapse of material, Richer said. \ufffdIt may have been that major
> > > components of the galaxy pretty much formed everywhere at the same
> > > time very early on and other bits and pieces came along later,\ufffd he
> > > noted.
>
> > > A younger age for the bulge would have indicated that the galaxy grew
> > > more gradually and from the outside in, with the halo forming first
> > > and the central bulge arising a few billion years later.
>
> > > But if the age estimate holds up, it would appear to be in conflict
> > > with the prescription for galaxy formation dictated by the cold dark
> > > matter theory, which holds that galaxies began as small fry that built
> > > themselves up by stealing gas and stars from their neighbors.
>
> > > Evidence that the halo and the bulge of the Milky Way formed together
> > > could be seen either as a cosmic coincidence or a finding that
> > > suggests some previously unknown episode of violence early in the
> > > galaxy\ufffds history, commented Rosie Wyse of Johns Hopkins University in
> > > Baltimore, who was not a collaborator on the study.
>
> > > One possibility, she notes, is that the Milky Way suffered a major
> > > collision not long after its birth that drove material from the halo
> > > into the central part of the galaxy, forming the bulge. That could
> > > also explain why the mass of stars in the bulge is about 10 times
> > > heavier than that in the halo, she said.
>
> > > The finding does not rule out the possibility that parts of the Milky
> > > Way grew by accreting, or gravitationally accumulating material, from
> > > neighbors, Richer said. Indeed, the Milky Way today continues to grow
> > > by pulling in small neighboring galaxies, such as the Sagittarius
> > > dwarf galaxy
>
> > Falling in is no surprise. Falling out proves centrifugal force is
> > stronger than gravity force "at times" But gravitation wins in the
> > end. All part of my gravity space curve theory Trebert
>
> A relatively small black hole can produce a galaxy, though perhaps it
> can just as easily consume a galaxy.
>
> ~ BG- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Black hole produces "gamma ray bursts" GRB Just put up a post on GRB
that I think is quite profound O ya TreBert

*****************************************
Black Holes themselves do NOT produce gamma ray bursts. Their
immense gravity suck in material towards the events horizon with
such force that some of it is "squeezed" out in the form of radiation
at the poles (along the axis of rotation) of the BH, at near the speed
of light.



HVAC
2010-05-14 10:36:38 EST

"bert" <herbertglazier79@msn.com> wrote in message
news:ead1e3d8-3da8-4471-8f3a-67cc0f1f3ca8@g21g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...

> Black hole produces "gamma ray bursts" GRB

In a sense. It is the 'birth' of a black hole
that is signalled by a GRB. Since we observe
about 1-2 GRBs a day, that's a lot of black holes.




> Just put up a post on GRB
> that I think is quite profound O ya TreBert



I smell another Nobel for you, Bert!



Brad Guth
2010-05-14 11:16:20 EST
On May 13, 6:36 am, chatnoir <wolfbat3...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/58873/title/New_Hubble_pic...
>
> New Hubble pictures suggest Milky Way fell together
> Evidence goes against prevailing galaxy formation scenario
> By Ron Cowen Web edition : Tuesday, May 4th, 2010   Text Size
>
> A preliminary analysis of elderly stars in the Milky Way appears to
> strike a blow against the prevailing theory of galaxy formation. The
> study suggests that several large and seemingly disparate chunks of
> the Milky Way galaxy formed at the same time from the collapse of a
> single blob of gas and dust.
>
> That’s in direct contrast to the leading galaxy-formation scenario,
> which holds that the Milky Way and other galaxies began small and grew
> bit by bit for the most part, gravitationally acquiring intergalactic
> gas and dust and merging with galaxies in their immediate
> neighborhood.
>
> The new evidence, which astronomers emphasize is only tentative, comes
> from a new, ongoing study of a familiar globular cluster — a dense,
> elderly grouping of more than a million Milky Way stars collectively
> known as 47 Tucanae. Earlier this year, Harvey Richer of the
> University of British Columbia in Canada and his colleagues began
> examining 47 Tucanae with two Hubble Space Telescope cameras — the
> newly installed Wide Field Camera 3 and the Advanced Camera for
> Surveys, which stopped working early in 2007 but was revived by
> astronauts during the servicing mission last year.
>
> The cluster lies near but not inside the Milky Way’s bulge, a massive
> concentration of stars that surrounds the galaxy’s core. But because
> the cluster shares several properties with the bulge, such as chemical
> composition and orbital motion, astronomers consider the age of 47
> Tucanae a good proxy for that of the bulge.
>
> An analysis of the Hubble portrait, which includes one of the deepest
> infrared views ever recorded, reveals that 47 Tucanae, and therefore
> the Milky Way’s bulge, formed between 11 billion and 12 billion years
> ago, Richer reported May 4 at a symposium on stellar evolution at the
> Space Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore. He said previous age
> estimates that did not use the new Hubble camera and put the cluster
> at a more youthful 9 billion years old are simply not correct.
>
> “This is not a young cluster. That’s definitive,” Richer said. But he
> cautioned that both the analysis and observations of 47 Tucanae are
> ongoing, so the precise age determination is still “very preliminary.”
>
> The new age determination places the bulge at roughly the same vintage
> as the halo of the Milky Way, a vast spherical region that extends to
> the outskirts of the galaxy and envelops the flattened disk containing
> the Milky Way’s signature spiral arms,.
>
> Researchers had previously determined the halo’s age by studying
> several globular clusters that lie within it. The similarity in age of
> 47 Tucanae and the galactic halo suggests that the two structures may
> have formed simultaneously, in one giant monolithic gravitational
> collapse of material, Richer said. “It may have been that major
> components of the galaxy pretty much formed everywhere at the same
> time very early on and other bits and pieces came along later,” he
> noted.
>
> A younger age for the bulge would have indicated that the galaxy grew
> more gradually and from the outside in, with the halo forming first
> and the central bulge arising a few billion years later.
>
> But if the age estimate holds up, it would appear to be in conflict
> with the prescription for galaxy formation dictated by the cold dark
> matter theory, which holds that galaxies began as small fry that built
> themselves up by stealing gas and stars from their neighbors.
>
> Evidence that the halo and the bulge of the Milky Way formed together
> could be seen either as a cosmic coincidence or a finding that
> suggests some previously unknown episode of violence early in the
> galaxy’s history, commented Rosie Wyse of Johns Hopkins University in
> Baltimore, who was not a collaborator on the study.
>
> One possibility, she notes, is that the Milky Way suffered a major
> collision not long after its birth that drove material from the halo
> into the central part of the galaxy, forming the bulge. That could
> also explain why the mass of stars in the bulge is about 10 times
> heavier than that in the halo, she said.
>
> The finding does not rule out the possibility that parts of the Milky
> Way grew by accreting, or gravitationally accumulating material, from
> neighbors, Richer said. Indeed, the Milky Way today continues to grow
> by pulling in small neighboring galaxies, such as the Sagittarius
> dwarf galaxy

It's most likely that our Milky Way has been a composite of at least
two significant clusters and their associated molecular mass of
perhaps 3e41 kg each, as well as having picked up a few odds and ends
(<1e41 kg) along the way.

~ BG

Brad Guth
2010-05-14 11:27:17 EST
On May 14, 5:25 am, bert <herbertglazie...@msn.com> wrote:
> On May 13, 1:08 pm, Brad Guth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 13, 9:22 am, bert <herbertglazie...@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > > On May 13, 9:36 am, chatnoir <wolfbat3...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> > > >http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/58873/title/New_Hubble_pic...
>
> > > > New Hubble pictures suggest Milky Way fell together
> > > > Evidence goes against prevailing galaxy formation scenario
> > > > By Ron Cowen Web edition : Tuesday, May 4th, 2010   Text Size
>
> > > > A preliminary analysis of elderly stars in the Milky Way appears to
> > > > strike a blow against the prevailing theory of galaxy formation. The
> > > > study suggests that several large and seemingly disparate chunks of
> > > > the Milky Way galaxy formed at the same time from the collapse of a
> > > > single blob of gas and dust.
>
> > > > That’s in direct contrast to the leading galaxy-formation scenario,
> > > > which holds that the Milky Way and other galaxies began small and grew
> > > > bit by bit for the most part, gravitationally acquiring intergalactic
> > > > gas and dust and merging with galaxies in their immediate
> > > > neighborhood.
>
> > > > The new evidence, which astronomers emphasize is only tentative, comes
> > > > from a new, ongoing study of a familiar globular cluster — a dense,
> > > > elderly grouping of more than a million Milky Way stars collectively
> > > > known as 47 Tucanae. Earlier this year, Harvey Richer of the
> > > > University of British Columbia in Canada and his colleagues began
> > > > examining 47 Tucanae with two Hubble Space Telescope cameras — the
> > > > newly installed Wide Field Camera 3 and the Advanced Camera for
> > > > Surveys, which stopped working early in 2007 but was revived by
> > > > astronauts during the servicing mission last year.
>
> > > > The cluster lies near but not inside the Milky Way’s bulge, a massive
> > > > concentration of stars that surrounds the galaxy’s core. But because
> > > > the cluster shares several properties with the bulge, such as chemical
> > > > composition and orbital motion, astronomers consider the age of 47
> > > > Tucanae a good proxy for that of the bulge.
>
> > > > An analysis of the Hubble portrait, which includes one of the deepest
> > > > infrared views ever recorded, reveals that 47 Tucanae, and therefore
> > > > the Milky Way’s bulge, formed between 11 billion and 12 billion years
> > > > ago, Richer reported May 4 at a symposium on stellar evolution at the
> > > > Space Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore. He said previous age
> > > > estimates that did not use the new Hubble camera and put the cluster
> > > > at a more youthful 9 billion years old are simply not correct.
>
> > > > “This is not a young cluster. That’s definitive,” Richer said. But he
> > > > cautioned that both the analysis and observations of 47 Tucanae are
> > > > ongoing, so the precise age determination is still “very preliminary.”
>
> > > > The new age determination places the bulge at roughly the same vintage
> > > > as the halo of the Milky Way, a vast spherical region that extends to
> > > > the outskirts of the galaxy and envelops the flattened disk containing
> > > > the Milky Way’s signature spiral arms,.
>
> > > > Researchers had previously determined the halo’s age by studying
> > > > several globular clusters that lie within it. The similarity in age of
> > > > 47 Tucanae and the galactic halo suggests that the two structures may
> > > > have formed simultaneously, in one giant monolithic gravitational
> > > > collapse of material, Richer said. “It may have been that major
> > > > components of the galaxy pretty much formed everywhere at the same
> > > > time very early on and other bits and pieces came along later,” he
> > > > noted.
>
> > > > A younger age for the bulge would have indicated that the galaxy grew
> > > > more gradually and from the outside in, with the halo forming first
> > > > and the central bulge arising a few billion years later.
>
> > > > But if the age estimate holds up, it would appear to be in conflict
> > > > with the prescription for galaxy formation dictated by the cold dark
> > > > matter theory, which holds that galaxies began as small fry that built
> > > > themselves up by stealing gas and stars from their neighbors.
>
> > > > Evidence that the halo and the bulge of the Milky Way formed together
> > > > could be seen either as a cosmic coincidence or a finding that
> > > > suggests some previously unknown episode of violence early in the
> > > > galaxy’s history, commented Rosie Wyse of Johns Hopkins University in
> > > > Baltimore, who was not a collaborator on the study.
>
> > > > One possibility, she notes, is that the Milky Way suffered a major
> > > > collision not long after its birth that drove material from the halo
> > > > into the central part of the galaxy, forming the bulge. That could
> > > > also explain why the mass of stars in the bulge is about 10 times
> > > > heavier than that in the halo, she said.
>
> > > > The finding does not rule out the possibility that parts of the Milky
> > > > Way grew by accreting, or gravitationally accumulating material, from
> > > > neighbors, Richer said. Indeed, the Milky Way today continues to grow
> > > > by pulling in small neighboring galaxies, such as the Sagittarius
> > > > dwarf galaxy
>
> > > Falling in is no surprise. Falling out proves centrifugal force is
> > > stronger than gravity force "at times" But gravitation wins in the
> > > end.  All part of my gravity space curve theory  Trebert
>
> > A relatively small black hole can produce a galaxy, though perhaps it
> > can just as easily consume a galaxy.
>
> >  ~ BG- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Black hole produces "gamma ray bursts" GRB  Just put up a post on GRB
> that I think is quite profound  O ya   TreBert

Merging black holes or perhaps closely interacting black holes are
likely GRB worthy. Obviously when significant items are consumed by a
black hole should offer GRBs.

Perhaps those odd spheres orbiting close to our sun were neutron stars
or some new kind of black holes.
http://stereo-ssc.nascom.nasa.gov/browse/2010/01/23/behind/euvi/195/2048/
http://gazbom.blogspot.com/2010/01/nasa-images-earth-sized-spherical.html
(too many spheres to hide) January 22 through February 19 blocked out
entirely.
http://www.tesis.lebedev.ru/en/sun_pictures.html?m=1&y=2010

~ BG

Hagar
2010-05-15 10:42:07 EST

"Brad Guth" <bradguth@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:98e9010f-50a7-455c-bcba-9895b27a1238@y18g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
On May 13, 6:36 am, chatnoir <wolfbat3...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/58873/title/New_Hubble_pic...
>

< snip numbnutz drivel >

It's most likely that our Milky Way has been a composite of at least
two significant clusters and their associated molecular mass of
perhaps 3e41 kg each, as well as having picked up a few odds and ends
(<1e41 kg) along the way.

*****************************************
GuthBall, the stuff the solar system is made of, is al homogeneous in
nature, being the direst result of a super nova, which equally sprinkles
the atomic seeds of the periodic table throughout the galactic
neighborhood. The clouds of matter contain all the building blocks
for everything we see and their progenitors were, in all likelihood, third
generation stars, containing all the elements created in previous super
nova events.
Please explain source for your "along the way" theory as well as the
two mass citation, which obviously spent a long time in your colon.



Hagar
2010-05-15 12:59:32 EST

"HVAC" <mr.hvac@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hsjn5i$cpi$1@hvac.motzarella.org...
>
> "bert" <herbertglazier79@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:ead1e3d8-3da8-4471-8f3a-67cc0f1f3ca8@g21g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
>
>> Black hole produces "gamma ray bursts" GRB
>
> In a sense. It is the 'birth' of a black hole
> that is signalled by a GRB. Since we observe
> about 1-2 GRBs a day, that's a lot of black holes.
>
>
>
>
>> Just put up a post on GRB
>> that I think is quite profound O ya TreBert
>
>
>
> I smell another Nobel for you, Bert!
>
Nahhh ... he just pooped in his britches again ...it just smells like
the Al Gore and Hussein Obama Nobels .... shitty, that is


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