Research Discussion: Cash For Clunkers Wrap-up

Cash For Clunkers Wrap-up
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HVAC
2010-03-07 13:37:20 EST
Think of it this way:

A clunker that travels 12,000 miles a year at 15 mpg uses 800 gallons
of gas a year.

A vehicle that travels 12,000 miles a year at 25 mpg uses 480 gallons
a year.

So, the average Cash for Clunkers transaction will reduce US gasoline
consumption by 320 gallons per year.

They claim 700,000 vehicles so that's 224 million gallons saved per
year.

That equates to a bit over 5 million barrels of oil.

5 million barrels is about 5 hours worth of US consumption.

More importantly, 5 million barrels of oil at $70 per barrel costs
about $350 million dollars

So, the government paid $3 billion of our tax dollars to save $350
million.

We spent $8.57 for every dollar we saved.


I'm pretty sure they will do a great job with our health care,
though.

Brad Guth
2010-03-07 14:04:17 EST
On Mar 7, 10:37 am, HVAC <mr.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Think of it this way:
>
> A clunker that travels 12,000 miles a year at 15 mpg uses 800 gallons
> of gas a year.
>
> A vehicle that travels 12,000 miles a year at 25 mpg uses 480 gallons
> a year.
>
> So, the average Cash for Clunkers transaction will reduce US gasoline
> consumption by 320 gallons per year.
>
> They claim 700,000 vehicles so that's 224 million gallons saved per
> year.
>
> That equates to a bit over 5 million barrels of oil.
>
> 5 million barrels is about 5 hours worth of US consumption.
>
> More importantly, 5 million barrels of oil at $70 per barrel costs
> about $350 million dollars
>
> So, the government paid $3 billion of our tax dollars to save $350
> million.
>
> We spent $8.57 for every dollar we saved.
>
> I'm pretty sure they will do a great job with our health care,
> though.

Actually a 10% return on our public investment is more than a thousand
percent better off than most government investments that we usually
never get to see more than a 1% worth of any net value. (usually
whatever government does has become a perpetual money sink-hole, with
only those grossly negative or vanishing returns that would make
treasonous crooks like ENRON, AIG, our SEC and Madoff look like gods)

On top of that, our bankrupt state of Washington that's billions in
default allowed spendy new cars as being purchased sales tax free,
just so that the already rich and powerful got an extra public funded
bailout perk to boot.

How about we form a class action group that insures we get our fair
share?

~ BG

Brad Guth
2010-03-07 14:22:41 EST
On Mar 7, 10:37 am, HVAC <mr.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Think of it this way:
>
> A clunker that travels 12,000 miles a year at 15 mpg uses 800 gallons
> of gas a year.
>
> A vehicle that travels 12,000 miles a year at 25 mpg uses 480 gallons
> a year.
>
> So, the average Cash for Clunkers transaction will reduce US gasoline
> consumption by 320 gallons per year.
>
> They claim 700,000 vehicles so that's 224 million gallons saved per
> year.
>
> That equates to a bit over 5 million barrels of oil.
>
> 5 million barrels is about 5 hours worth of US consumption.
>
> More importantly, 5 million barrels of oil at $70 per barrel costs
> about $350 million dollars
>
> So, the government paid $3 billion of our tax dollars to save $350
> million.
>
> We spent $8.57 for every dollar we saved.
>
> I'm pretty sure they will do a great job with our health care,
> though.

Actually most of those replacement cars have not been averaging more
than 5 mpg better mileage unless they also downsized, although the
price per barrel is not exactly staying below $80/barrel for long, and
those 5 mpg better performing cars and of those downsized having their
10 mpg improvement should have a 10 year lifespan that’ll eventually
make up for the difference, but perhaps never pay off or break even
for their public funded investment unless oil soars above $150/barrel.

Actually a 10% return on our public investment is more than a thousand
percent better off than most government investments that we usually
never get to see more than a 1% worth of any net value. (usually
whatever government does has become a perpetual money sink-hole, with
only those grossly negative or vanishing returns that would make
treasonous crooks like ENRON, AIG, our SEC and Madoff look like gods)

On top of that, our bankrupt state of Washington that's billions in
default allowed spendy new cars as being purchased sales tax free,
just so that the already rich and powerful got an extra public funded
bailout perk to boot.

How about we form a class action group that insures we get our fair
share, no matters what?

~ BG

Double-A
2010-03-07 15:03:10 EST
On Mar 7, 11:22 am, Brad Guth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 7, 10:37 am, HVAC <mr.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Think of it this way:
>
> > A clunker that travels 12,000 miles a year at 15 mpg uses 800 gallons
> > of gas a year.
>
> > A vehicle that travels 12,000 miles a year at 25 mpg uses 480 gallons
> > a year.
>
> > So, the average Cash for Clunkers transaction will reduce US gasoline
> > consumption by 320 gallons per year.
>
> > They claim 700,000 vehicles so that's 224 million gallons saved per
> > year.
>
> > That equates to a bit over 5 million barrels of oil.
>
> > 5 million barrels is about 5 hours worth of US consumption.
>
> > More importantly, 5 million barrels of oil at $70 per barrel costs
> > about $350 million dollars
>
> > So, the government paid $3 billion of our tax dollars to save $350
> > million.
>
> > We spent $8.57 for every dollar we saved.
>
> > I'm pretty sure they will do a great job with our health care,
> > though.
>
> Actually most of those replacement cars have not been averaging more
> than 5 mpg better mileage unless they also downsized, although the
> price per barrel is not exactly staying below $80/barrel for long, and
> those 5 mpg better performing cars and of those downsized having their
> 10 mpg improvement should have a 10 year lifespan that’ll eventually
> make up for the difference, but perhaps never pay off or break even
> for their public funded investment unless oil soars above $150/barrel.
>
> Actually a 10% return on our public investment is more than a thousand
> percent better off than most government investments that we usually
> never get to see more than a 1% worth of any net value. (usually
> whatever government does has become a perpetual money sink-hole, with
> only those grossly negative or vanishing returns that would make
> treasonous crooks like ENRON, AIG, our SEC and Madoff look like gods)
>
> On top of that, our bankrupt state of Washington that's billions in
> default allowed spendy new cars as being purchased sales tax free,
> just so that the already rich and powerful got an extra public funded
> bailout perk to boot.
>
> How about we form a class action group that insures we get our fair
> share, no matters what?
>
>  ~ BG


Yes, let's do that! It's called a revolution!

Double-A




Jenny6833A
2010-03-07 15:07:04 EST
On Mar 7, 11:37�am, HVAC <mr.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Think of it this way:

Why 'this" way instead of some more accurate way?

> A clunker that travels 12,000 miles a year at 15 mpg uses 800 gallons
> of gas a year.
>
> A vehicle that travels 12,000 miles a year at 25 mpg uses 480 gallons
> a year.
>
> So, the average Cash for Clunkers transaction will reduce US gasoline
> consumption by 320 gallons per year.
>
> They claim 700,000 vehicles so that's 224 million gallons saved per
> year.
>
> That equates to a bit over 5 million barrels of oil.
>
> 5 million barrels is about 5 hours worth of US consumption.
>
> More importantly, 5 million barrels of oil at $70 per barrel costs
> about $350 million dollars
>
> So, the government paid $3 billion of our tax dollars to save $350
> million.
>
> We spent $8.57 for every dollar we saved.

What was it worth to keep a whole lot of bad stuff out of the
atmosphere?

Did the program contribute to saving an endangered industry without
which we'd be subject to blackmail by foreigners? If so, what price
do you put on that?

Did the program give a much needed boost to the national economy at a
time when it was in danger of collapse? If so, what price do you put
on that?

Did the program reduce the need to support unemployed workers? If so,
how much was saved?

Were there intangible benefits to the program, benefits that cannot be
reduced to dollars? If so, what are they?

Is it necessary, wise, and valid to reduce all evaluations to dollars?

Can you, with a modicum of thought, think of more questions that bear
on the decision to go ahead with the program? If so, what are they?

Me, I don't pretend to know the answers to any of those questions, but
I can say this:

It really pisses me off when people cherry pick data to come to a
foregone conclusion.


> I'm pretty sure they will do a great job with our health care,
> though.

I'm pretty sure they won't, but no matter how much they screw it up,
the result will be an improvement over what we have now.

:-)

Jenny

Brad Guth
2010-03-07 15:22:52 EST
On Mar 7, 12:03 pm, Double-A <double...@hush.com> wrote:
> On Mar 7, 11:22 am, Brad Guth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mar 7, 10:37 am, HVAC <mr.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Think of it this way:
>
> > > A clunker that travels 12,000 miles a year at 15 mpg uses 800 gallons
> > > of gas a year.
>
> > > A vehicle that travels 12,000 miles a year at 25 mpg uses 480 gallons
> > > a year.
>
> > > So, the average Cash for Clunkers transaction will reduce US gasoline
> > > consumption by 320 gallons per year.
>
> > > They claim 700,000 vehicles so that's 224 million gallons saved per
> > > year.
>
> > > That equates to a bit over 5 million barrels of oil.
>
> > > 5 million barrels is about 5 hours worth of US consumption.
>
> > > More importantly, 5 million barrels of oil at $70 per barrel costs
> > > about $350 million dollars
>
> > > So, the government paid $3 billion of our tax dollars to save $350
> > > million.
>
> > > We spent $8.57 for every dollar we saved.
>
> > > I'm pretty sure they will do a great job with our health care,
> > > though.
>
> > Actually most of those replacement cars have not been averaging more
> > than 5 mpg better mileage unless they also downsized, although the
> > price per barrel is not exactly staying below $80/barrel for long, and
> > those 5 mpg better performing cars and of those downsized having their
> > 10 mpg improvement should have a 10 year lifespan that’ll eventually
> > make up for the difference, but perhaps never pay off or break even
> > for their public funded investment unless oil soars above $150/barrel.
>
> > Actually a 10% return on our public investment is more than a thousand
> > percent better off than most government investments that we usually
> > never get to see more than a 1% worth of any net value. (usually
> > whatever government does has become a perpetual money sink-hole, with
> > only those grossly negative or vanishing returns that would make
> > treasonous crooks like ENRON, AIG, our SEC and Madoff look like gods)
>
> > On top of that, our bankrupt state of Washington that's billions in
> > default allowed spendy new cars as being purchased sales tax free,
> > just so that the already rich and powerful got an extra public funded
> > bailout perk to boot.
>
> > How about we form a class action group that insures we get our fair
> > share, no matters what?
>
> >  ~ BG
>
> Yes, let's do that!  It's called a revolution!
>
> Double-A

Viva la revolution! (in other words, lock and load)

How about first having a "cash for bums" rally, whereas we get a
hundred grand bounty for every bum or illegal migrant we manage to
drag off the streets (no questions asked). We could call this our
"don't ask, don't tell rebate policy", whereas those empty prisons
intended as our modern version of the "poor house" can finally be put
to good usage, and because they're all so smart is why they can all
fend for themselves while waiting to get legally adopted, sponsored or
exported in exchange for oil or whatever else we need. (I understand
Haiti still pays $1/50/day, and they need at least a couple hundred
thousand replacements as is)

~ BG

Default
2010-03-07 18:18:46 EST
On Sun, 7 Mar 2010 10:37:20 -0800 (PST), HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Think of it this way:
That way insanity lies

You can't think about it rationally - these are politicians telling
the sheeple what to believe.

And we haven't scratched the surface of what it took to manufacture
these "environmentally friendly" vehicles just so we could waste
resources in un recyclable materials, or for the energy and waste to
the countryside to grab the raw materials, so a few corporations can
make a profit, while creating "super fund sites" that the taxpayer
will have to clean up at a much higher cost in the future, wasting
more energy and materials - to do a half-assed job and spawn thousands
of new cancers.

The capitalist economic model - make money for your super rich
patrons, and leave the peons to bear the cost of cleaning up your
mess.
--

Brad Guth
2010-03-07 20:16:30 EST
On Mar 7, 3:18 pm, default <defa...@defaulter.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 7 Mar 2010 10:37:20 -0800 (PST), HVAC <mr.h...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Think of it this way:
>
> That way insanity lies
>
> You can't think about it rationally - these are politicians telling
> the sheeple what to believe.
>
> And we haven't scratched the surface of what it took to manufacture
> these "environmentally friendly" vehicles just so we could waste
> resources in un recyclable materials, or for the energy and waste to
> the countryside to grab the raw materials, so a few corporations can
> make a profit, while creating "super fund sites" that the taxpayer
> will have to clean up at a much higher cost in the future, wasting
> more energy and materials - to do a half-assed job and spawn thousands
> of new cancers.
>
> The capitalist economic model - make money for your super rich
> patrons, and leave the peons to bear the cost of cleaning up your
> mess.
> --

With that truth seeking attitude you can't possibly be one of those
parrots not left behind.

~ BG


Bast
2010-03-07 22:45:25 EST


HVAC wrote:
> Think of it this way:
>
> A clunker that travels 12,000 miles a year at 15 mpg uses 800 gallons
> of gas a year.
>
> A vehicle that travels 12,000 miles a year at 25 mpg uses 480 gallons
> a year.
>
> So, the average Cash for Clunkers transaction will reduce US gasoline
> consumption by 320 gallons per year.
>
> They claim 700,000 vehicles so that's 224 million gallons saved per
> year.
>
> That equates to a bit over 5 million barrels of oil.
>
> 5 million barrels is about 5 hours worth of US consumption.
>
> More importantly, 5 million barrels of oil at $70 per barrel costs
> about $350 million dollars
>
> So, the government paid $3 billion of our tax dollars to save $350
> million.
>
> We spent $8.57 for every dollar we saved.
>
>
> I'm pretty sure they will do a great job with our health care,
> though.



Ya, but don't forget those car sales SAVED the American Car industry, so
G.M. and Chrysler didn't go belly-up and need billions in government bailout
money for years to come.
.....OOPS,.., nevermind.



Brad Guth
2010-03-07 23:09:11 EST
On Mar 7, 7:45 pm, "Bast" <faken...@nomail.invalid> wrote:
> HVAC wrote:
> > Think of it this way:
>
> > A clunker that travels 12,000 miles a year at 15 mpg uses 800 gallons
> > of gas a year.
>
> > A vehicle that travels 12,000 miles a year at 25 mpg uses 480 gallons
> > a year.
>
> > So, the average Cash for Clunkers transaction will reduce US gasoline
> > consumption by 320 gallons per year.
>
> > They claim 700,000 vehicles so that's 224 million gallons saved per
> > year.
>
> > That equates to a bit over 5 million barrels of oil.
>
> > 5 million barrels is about 5 hours worth of US consumption.
>
> > More importantly, 5 million barrels of oil at $70 per barrel costs
> > about $350 million dollars
>
> > So, the government paid $3 billion of our tax dollars to save $350
> > million.
>
> > We spent $8.57 for every dollar we saved.
>
> > I'm pretty sure they will do a great job with our health care,
> > though.
>
> Ya, but don't forget those car sales SAVED the American Car industry, so
> G.M. and Chrysler didn't go belly-up and need billions in government bailout
> money for years to come.
> .....OOPS,.., nevermind.

NO, NO, NO

We just let those silly bastards sink in their own cesspools, side by
side along with those greedy union cesspools.

If your products and services can't cut it in the open market place
that's already import quota and/or banishment protected as is, it's
nothing but too bad, fun while it lasted and goodbye Charley.

~ BG
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