Research Discussion: Life On Saturn's Moon Enceladus ?

Life On Saturn's Moon Enceladus ?
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HVAC
2010-02-09 17:46:37 EST
Some of 'the major ingredients for life' are present on one of
Saturn's moons, according to University College London scientists.

A team from the Mullard Space Science Laboratory working on the
Cassini-Huygens mission have found negatively charged water ions in
the ice plume of Enceladus.

Their analysis of data gathered during the spacecraft's plume fly-
throughs in 2008 provide evidence for the presence of liquid water.

The spacecraft's plasma spectrometer, used to gather this data, also
found other species of negatively charged ions including hydrocarbons.

MSSL's Professor Andrew Coates, lead author of a paper on the latest
discovery, said: "While it's no surprise that there is water there,
these short-lived ions are extra evidence for sub-surface water and
where there's water, carbon and energy, some of the major ingredients
for life are present.

The surprise for us was to look at the mass of these ions. There were
several peaks in the spectrum, and when we analysed them we saw the
effect of water molecules clustering together one after the other."

Enceladus thus joins Earth, Titan and comets where negatively charged
ions are known to exist in the solar system. Negative oxygen ions were
discovered in Earth's ionosphere at the dawn of the space age. At
Earth's surface, negative water ions are present where liquid water is
in motion, such as waterfalls or crashing ocean waves.

The plasma spectrometer measures the density, flow velocity and
temperature of ions and electrons that enter the instrument. But since
the discovery of Enceladus' water ice plume, the instrument has also
successfully captured and analysed samples of material in the jets.

Early in its mission, Cassini-Huygens discovered the plume that
fountains water vapour and ice particles above Enceladus. Since then,
scientists have found that these water products dominate Saturn's
magnetic environment and create Saturn's huge E-ring.

At Titan, the same instrument detected extremely large negative
hydrocarbon ions with masses up to 13,800 times that of hydrogen. Dr
Coates and his colleagues believe large ions are the source of the
smog-like haze that blocks most of Titan's surface from view.

The new findings add to astronomers' growing knowledge of the detailed
chemistry of Enceladus' plume and Titan's atmosphere, giving new
understanding of environments beyond Earth where prebiotic or life-
sustaining environments might exist.

Professor Keith Mason, Chief Executive of the Science and Technology
Facilities Council (STFC), which funds the UK involvement in Cassini-
Huygens, said: "This measurement of water ions in the ice plume of
Enceladus is incredibly exciting and provides us with further hope of
finding water and maybe even life on this distant icy moon."

BradGuth
2010-02-09 18:40:14 EST
On Feb 9, 2:46 pm, HVAC <mr.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Some of 'the major ingredients for life' are present on one of
> Saturn's moons, according to University College London scientists.
>
> A team from the Mullard Space Science Laboratory working on the
> Cassini-Huygens mission have found negatively charged water ions in
> the ice plume of Enceladus.
>
> Their analysis of data gathered during the spacecraft's plume fly-
> throughs in 2008 provide evidence for the presence of liquid water.
>
> The spacecraft's plasma spectrometer, used to gather this data, also
> found other species of negatively charged ions including hydrocarbons.
>
> MSSL's Professor Andrew Coates, lead author of a paper on the latest
> discovery, said: "While it's no surprise that there is water there,
> these short-lived ions are extra evidence for sub-surface water and
> where there's water, carbon and energy, some of the major ingredients
> for life are present.
>
> The surprise for us was to look at the mass of these ions. There were
> several peaks in the spectrum, and when we analysed them we saw the
> effect of water molecules clustering together one after the other."
>
> Enceladus thus joins Earth, Titan and comets where negatively charged
> ions are known to exist in the solar system. Negative oxygen ions were
> discovered in Earth's ionosphere at the dawn of the space age. At
> Earth's surface, negative water ions are present where liquid water is
> in motion, such as waterfalls or crashing ocean waves.
>
> The plasma spectrometer measures the density, flow velocity and
> temperature of ions and electrons that enter the instrument. But since
> the discovery of Enceladus' water ice plume, the instrument has also
> successfully captured and analysed samples of material in the jets.
>
> Early in its mission, Cassini-Huygens discovered the plume that
> fountains water vapour and ice particles above Enceladus. Since then,
> scientists have found that these water products dominate Saturn's
> magnetic environment and create Saturn's huge E-ring.
>
> At Titan, the same instrument detected extremely large negative
> hydrocarbon ions with masses up to 13,800 times that of hydrogen. Dr
> Coates and his colleagues believe large ions are the source of the
> smog-like haze that blocks most of Titan's surface from view.
>
> The new findings add to astronomers' growing knowledge of the detailed
> chemistry of Enceladus' plume and Titan's atmosphere, giving new
> understanding of environments beyond Earth where prebiotic or life-
> sustaining environments might exist.
>
> Professor Keith Mason, Chief Executive of the Science and Technology
> Facilities Council (STFC), which funds the UK involvement in Cassini-
> Huygens, said: "This measurement of water ions in the ice plume of
> Enceladus is incredibly exciting and provides us with further hope of
> finding water and maybe even life on this distant icy moon."

Frosty the Snowman?

~ BG

BradGuth
2010-02-09 21:05:41 EST
On Feb 9, 2:46 pm, HVAC <mr.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Some of 'the major ingredients for life' are present on one of
> Saturn's moons, according to University College London scientists.
>
> A team from the Mullard Space Science Laboratory working on the
> Cassini-Huygens mission have found negatively charged water ions in
> the ice plume of Enceladus.
>
> Their analysis of data gathered during the spacecraft's plume fly-
> throughs in 2008 provide evidence for the presence of liquid water.
>
> The spacecraft's plasma spectrometer, used to gather this data, also
> found other species of negatively charged ions including hydrocarbons.
>
> MSSL's Professor Andrew Coates, lead author of a paper on the latest
> discovery, said: "While it's no surprise that there is water there,
> these short-lived ions are extra evidence for sub-surface water and
> where there's water, carbon and energy, some of the major ingredients
> for life are present.
>
> The surprise for us was to look at the mass of these ions. There were
> several peaks in the spectrum, and when we analysed them we saw the
> effect of water molecules clustering together one after the other."
>
> Enceladus thus joins Earth, Titan and comets where negatively charged
> ions are known to exist in the solar system. Negative oxygen ions were
> discovered in Earth's ionosphere at the dawn of the space age. At
> Earth's surface, negative water ions are present where liquid water is
> in motion, such as waterfalls or crashing ocean waves.
>
> The plasma spectrometer measures the density, flow velocity and
> temperature of ions and electrons that enter the instrument. But since
> the discovery of Enceladus' water ice plume, the instrument has also
> successfully captured and analysed samples of material in the jets.
>
> Early in its mission, Cassini-Huygens discovered the plume that
> fountains water vapour and ice particles above Enceladus. Since then,
> scientists have found that these water products dominate Saturn's
> magnetic environment and create Saturn's huge E-ring.
>
> At Titan, the same instrument detected extremely large negative
> hydrocarbon ions with masses up to 13,800 times that of hydrogen. Dr
> Coates and his colleagues believe large ions are the source of the
> smog-like haze that blocks most of Titan's surface from view.
>
> The new findings add to astronomers' growing knowledge of the detailed
> chemistry of Enceladus' plume and Titan's atmosphere, giving new
> understanding of environments beyond Earth where prebiotic or life-
> sustaining environments might exist.
>
> Professor Keith Mason, Chief Executive of the Science and Technology
> Facilities Council (STFC), which funds the UK involvement in Cassini-
> Huygens, said: "This measurement of water ions in the ice plume of
> Enceladus is incredibly exciting and provides us with further hope of
> finding water and maybe even life on this distant icy moon."

How about Frosty the Snowman?

Actually it's Frosty the Snowmime w/o nose or mouth, because there's
no atmosphere which makes that frosty nose and mouth useless.

Life under a solid layer of dry ice?

~ BG

Double-A
2010-02-09 21:53:27 EST
On Feb 9, 6:05 pm, BradGuth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 9, 2:46 pm, HVAC <mr.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Some of 'the major ingredients for life' are present on one of
> > Saturn's moons, according to University College London scientists.
>
> > A team from the Mullard Space Science Laboratory working on the
> > Cassini-Huygens mission have found negatively charged water ions in
> > the ice plume of Enceladus.
>
> > Their analysis of data gathered during the spacecraft's plume fly-
> > throughs in 2008 provide evidence for the presence of liquid water.
>
> > The spacecraft's plasma spectrometer, used to gather this data, also
> > found other species of negatively charged ions including hydrocarbons.
>
> > MSSL's Professor Andrew Coates, lead author of a paper on the latest
> > discovery, said: "While it's no surprise that there is water there,
> > these short-lived ions are extra evidence for sub-surface water and
> > where there's water, carbon and energy, some of the major ingredients
> > for life are present.
>
> > The surprise for us was to look at the mass of these ions. There were
> > several peaks in the spectrum, and when we analysed them we saw the
> > effect of water molecules clustering together one after the other."
>
> > Enceladus thus joins Earth, Titan and comets where negatively charged
> > ions are known to exist in the solar system. Negative oxygen ions were
> > discovered in Earth's ionosphere at the dawn of the space age. At
> > Earth's surface, negative water ions are present where liquid water is
> > in motion, such as waterfalls or crashing ocean waves.
>
> > The plasma spectrometer measures the density, flow velocity and
> > temperature of ions and electrons that enter the instrument. But since
> > the discovery of Enceladus' water ice plume, the instrument has also
> > successfully captured and analysed samples of material in the jets.
>
> > Early in its mission, Cassini-Huygens discovered the plume that
> > fountains water vapour and ice particles above Enceladus. Since then,
> > scientists have found that these water products dominate Saturn's
> > magnetic environment and create Saturn's huge E-ring.
>
> > At Titan, the same instrument detected extremely large negative
> > hydrocarbon ions with masses up to 13,800 times that of hydrogen. Dr
> > Coates and his colleagues believe large ions are the source of the
> > smog-like haze that blocks most of Titan's surface from view.
>
> > The new findings add to astronomers' growing knowledge of the detailed
> > chemistry of Enceladus' plume and Titan's atmosphere, giving new
> > understanding of environments beyond Earth where prebiotic or life-
> > sustaining environments might exist.
>
> > Professor Keith Mason, Chief Executive of the Science and Technology
> > Facilities Council (STFC), which funds the UK involvement in Cassini-
> > Huygens, said: "This measurement of water ions in the ice plume of
> > Enceladus is incredibly exciting and provides us with further hope of
> > finding water and maybe even life on this distant icy moon."
>
> How about Frosty the Snowman?
>
> Actually it's Frosty the Snowmime w/o nose or mouth, because there's
> no atmosphere which makes that frosty nose and mouth useless.
>
> Life under a solid layer of dry ice?
>
>  ~ BG


Would be hard for him to find a corncob pipe there too, and coal for
his eyes!

Double-A


BradGuth
2010-02-09 22:05:55 EST
On Feb 9, 6:53 pm, Double-A <double...@hush.com> wrote:
> On Feb 9, 6:05 pm, BradGuth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 9, 2:46 pm, HVAC <mr.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Some of 'the major ingredients for life' are present on one of
> > > Saturn's moons, according to University College London scientists.
>
> > > A team from the Mullard Space Science Laboratory working on the
> > > Cassini-Huygens mission have found negatively charged water ions in
> > > the ice plume of Enceladus.
>
> > > Their analysis of data gathered during the spacecraft's plume fly-
> > > throughs in 2008 provide evidence for the presence of liquid water.
>
> > > The spacecraft's plasma spectrometer, used to gather this data, also
> > > found other species of negatively charged ions including hydrocarbons.
>
> > > MSSL's Professor Andrew Coates, lead author of a paper on the latest
> > > discovery, said: "While it's no surprise that there is water there,
> > > these short-lived ions are extra evidence for sub-surface water and
> > > where there's water, carbon and energy, some of the major ingredients
> > > for life are present.
>
> > > The surprise for us was to look at the mass of these ions. There were
> > > several peaks in the spectrum, and when we analysed them we saw the
> > > effect of water molecules clustering together one after the other."
>
> > > Enceladus thus joins Earth, Titan and comets where negatively charged
> > > ions are known to exist in the solar system. Negative oxygen ions were
> > > discovered in Earth's ionosphere at the dawn of the space age. At
> > > Earth's surface, negative water ions are present where liquid water is
> > > in motion, such as waterfalls or crashing ocean waves.
>
> > > The plasma spectrometer measures the density, flow velocity and
> > > temperature of ions and electrons that enter the instrument. But since
> > > the discovery of Enceladus' water ice plume, the instrument has also
> > > successfully captured and analysed samples of material in the jets.
>
> > > Early in its mission, Cassini-Huygens discovered the plume that
> > > fountains water vapour and ice particles above Enceladus. Since then,
> > > scientists have found that these water products dominate Saturn's
> > > magnetic environment and create Saturn's huge E-ring.
>
> > > At Titan, the same instrument detected extremely large negative
> > > hydrocarbon ions with masses up to 13,800 times that of hydrogen. Dr
> > > Coates and his colleagues believe large ions are the source of the
> > > smog-like haze that blocks most of Titan's surface from view.
>
> > > The new findings add to astronomers' growing knowledge of the detailed
> > > chemistry of Enceladus' plume and Titan's atmosphere, giving new
> > > understanding of environments beyond Earth where prebiotic or life-
> > > sustaining environments might exist.
>
> > > Professor Keith Mason, Chief Executive of the Science and Technology
> > > Facilities Council (STFC), which funds the UK involvement in Cassini-
> > > Huygens, said: "This measurement of water ions in the ice plume of
> > > Enceladus is incredibly exciting and provides us with further hope of
> > > finding water and maybe even life on this distant icy moon."
>
> > How about Frosty the Snowman?
>
> > Actually it's Frosty the Snowmime w/o nose or mouth, because there's
> > no atmosphere which makes that frosty nose and mouth useless.
>
> > Life under a solid layer of dry ice?
>
> >  ~ BG
>
> Would be hard for him to find a corncob pipe there too, and coal for
> his eyes!
>
> Double-A

Under that global ocean of solid co2 and ice could be something
hydrocarbon, or perhaps black diamond (carbonado).

~ BG

Bert
2010-02-10 02:39:04 EST
On Feb 9, 5:46 pm, HVAC <mr.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Some of 'the major ingredients for life' are present on one of
> Saturn's moons, according to University College London scientists.
>
> A team from the Mullard Space Science Laboratory working on the
> Cassini-Huygens mission have found negatively charged water ions in
> the ice plume of Enceladus.
>
> Their analysis of data gathered during the spacecraft's plume fly-
> throughs in 2008 provide evidence for the presence of liquid water.
>
> The spacecraft's plasma spectrometer, used to gather this data, also
> found other species of negatively charged ions including hydrocarbons.
>
> MSSL's Professor Andrew Coates, lead author of a paper on the latest
> discovery, said: "While it's no surprise that there is water there,
> these short-lived ions are extra evidence for sub-surface water and
> where there's water, carbon and energy, some of the major ingredients
> for life are present.
>
> The surprise for us was to look at the mass of these ions. There were
> several peaks in the spectrum, and when we analysed them we saw the
> effect of water molecules clustering together one after the other."
>
> Enceladus thus joins Earth, Titan and comets where negatively charged
> ions are known to exist in the solar system. Negative oxygen ions were
> discovered in Earth's ionosphere at the dawn of the space age. At
> Earth's surface, negative water ions are present where liquid water is
> in motion, such as waterfalls or crashing ocean waves.
>
> The plasma spectrometer measures the density, flow velocity and
> temperature of ions and electrons that enter the instrument. But since
> the discovery of Enceladus' water ice plume, the instrument has also
> successfully captured and analysed samples of material in the jets.
>
> Early in its mission, Cassini-Huygens discovered the plume that
> fountains water vapour and ice particles above Enceladus. Since then,
> scientists have found that these water products dominate Saturn's
> magnetic environment and create Saturn's huge E-ring.
>
> At Titan, the same instrument detected extremely large negative
> hydrocarbon ions with masses up to 13,800 times that of hydrogen. Dr
> Coates and his colleagues believe large ions are the source of the
> smog-like haze that blocks most of Titan's surface from view.
>
> The new findings add to astronomers' growing knowledge of the detailed
> chemistry of Enceladus' plume and Titan's atmosphere, giving new
> understanding of environments beyond Earth where prebiotic or life-
> sustaining environments might exist.
>
> Professor Keith Mason, Chief Executive of the Science and Technology
> Facilities Council (STFC), which funds the UK involvement in Cassini-
> Huygens, said: "This measurement of water ions in the ice plume of
> Enceladus is incredibly exciting and provides us with further hope of
> finding water and maybe even life on this distant icy moon."

Hvac Water creates ions. Maybe there is lightning,and lightning can
help create life. Its been done in labs all the time. TreBert

HVAC
2010-02-10 06:37:08 EST

"bert" <herbertglazier79@msn.com> wrote in message
news:8571caa8-fc61-4869-88b5-bbe4c5caaeaf@z26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
Hvac Water creates ions. Maybe there is lightning,and lightning can
help create life. Its been done in labs all the time. TreBert
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No life has ever been created in any lab.

Some pre-biotic chemicals and long chain
amino acids have been made, but no life.





--
Too Stupid to Understand Science? Try Religion



BradGuth
2010-02-10 07:17:06 EST
On Feb 9, 11:39 pm, bert <herbertglazie...@msn.com> wrote:
> On Feb 9, 5:46 pm, HVAC <mr.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Some of 'the major ingredients for life' are present on one of
> > Saturn's moons, according to University College London scientists.
>
> > A team from the Mullard Space Science Laboratory working on the
> > Cassini-Huygens mission have found negatively charged water ions in
> > the ice plume of Enceladus.
>
> > Their analysis of data gathered during the spacecraft's plume fly-
> > throughs in 2008 provide evidence for the presence of liquid water.
>
> > The spacecraft's plasma spectrometer, used to gather this data, also
> > found other species of negatively charged ions including hydrocarbons.
>
> > MSSL's Professor Andrew Coates, lead author of a paper on the latest
> > discovery, said: "While it's no surprise that there is water there,
> > these short-lived ions are extra evidence for sub-surface water and
> > where there's water, carbon and energy, some of the major ingredients
> > for life are present.
>
> > The surprise for us was to look at the mass of these ions. There were
> > several peaks in the spectrum, and when we analysed them we saw the
> > effect of water molecules clustering together one after the other."
>
> > Enceladus thus joins Earth, Titan and comets where negatively charged
> > ions are known to exist in the solar system. Negative oxygen ions were
> > discovered in Earth's ionosphere at the dawn of the space age. At
> > Earth's surface, negative water ions are present where liquid water is
> > in motion, such as waterfalls or crashing ocean waves.
>
> > The plasma spectrometer measures the density, flow velocity and
> > temperature of ions and electrons that enter the instrument. But since
> > the discovery of Enceladus' water ice plume, the instrument has also
> > successfully captured and analysed samples of material in the jets.
>
> > Early in its mission, Cassini-Huygens discovered the plume that
> > fountains water vapour and ice particles above Enceladus. Since then,
> > scientists have found that these water products dominate Saturn's
> > magnetic environment and create Saturn's huge E-ring.
>
> > At Titan, the same instrument detected extremely large negative
> > hydrocarbon ions with masses up to 13,800 times that of hydrogen. Dr
> > Coates and his colleagues believe large ions are the source of the
> > smog-like haze that blocks most of Titan's surface from view.
>
> > The new findings add to astronomers' growing knowledge of the detailed
> > chemistry of Enceladus' plume and Titan's atmosphere, giving new
> > understanding of environments beyond Earth where prebiotic or life-
> > sustaining environments might exist.
>
> > Professor Keith Mason, Chief Executive of the Science and Technology
> > Facilities Council (STFC), which funds the UK involvement in Cassini-
> > Huygens, said: "This measurement of water ions in the ice plume of
> > Enceladus is incredibly exciting and provides us with further hope of
> > finding water and maybe even life on this distant icy moon."
>
> Hvac  Water creates ions. Maybe there is lightning,and lightning can
> help create life. Its been done in labs all the time.  TreBert

We've only modified existing life, but there's hope that we can
artificially sequence enough DNA in the near future. Creating actual
life from scratch is a wee bit of a push, whereas receiving and/or
introducing life via panspermia happens all the time.

A thick layer of ice is actually a terrific kind of thermal insulation
and radiation shield to boot (a terrific method for safely trekking
between stars). However, it's never warm enough on or perhaps not
even within Enceladus for accommodating life as we know it, unless
applied technology becomes part of that application.

~ BG

Bast
2010-02-10 07:58:36 EST


bert wrote:
> On Feb 9, 5:46 pm, HVAC <mr.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Some of 'the major ingredients for life' are present on one of
>> Saturn's moons, according to University College London scientists.
>>
>> A team from the Mullard Space Science Laboratory working on the
>> Cassini-Huygens mission have found negatively charged water ions in
>> the ice plume of Enceladus.
>>
>> Their analysis of data gathered during the spacecraft's plume fly-
>> throughs in 2008 provide evidence for the presence of liquid water.
>>
>> The spacecraft's plasma spectrometer, used to gather this data, also
>> found other species of negatively charged ions including hydrocarbons.
>>
>> MSSL's Professor Andrew Coates, lead author of a paper on the latest
>> discovery, said: "While it's no surprise that there is water there,
>> these short-lived ions are extra evidence for sub-surface water and
>> where there's water, carbon and energy, some of the major ingredients
>> for life are present.
>>
>> The surprise for us was to look at the mass of these ions. There were
>> several peaks in the spectrum, and when we analysed them we saw the
>> effect of water molecules clustering together one after the other."
>>
>> Enceladus thus joins Earth, Titan and comets where negatively charged
>> ions are known to exist in the solar system. Negative oxygen ions were
>> discovered in Earth's ionosphere at the dawn of the space age. At
>> Earth's surface, negative water ions are present where liquid water is
>> in motion, such as waterfalls or crashing ocean waves.
>>
>> The plasma spectrometer measures the density, flow velocity and
>> temperature of ions and electrons that enter the instrument. But since
>> the discovery of Enceladus' water ice plume, the instrument has also
>> successfully captured and analysed samples of material in the jets.
>>
>> Early in its mission, Cassini-Huygens discovered the plume that
>> fountains water vapour and ice particles above Enceladus. Since then,
>> scientists have found that these water products dominate Saturn's
>> magnetic environment and create Saturn's huge E-ring.
>>
>> At Titan, the same instrument detected extremely large negative
>> hydrocarbon ions with masses up to 13,800 times that of hydrogen. Dr
>> Coates and his colleagues believe large ions are the source of the
>> smog-like haze that blocks most of Titan's surface from view.
>>
>> The new findings add to astronomers' growing knowledge of the detailed
>> chemistry of Enceladus' plume and Titan's atmosphere, giving new
>> understanding of environments beyond Earth where prebiotic or life-
>> sustaining environments might exist.
>>
>> Professor Keith Mason, Chief Executive of the Science and Technology
>> Facilities Council (STFC), which funds the UK involvement in Cassini-
>> Huygens, said: "This measurement of water ions in the ice plume of
>> Enceladus is incredibly exciting and provides us with further hope of
>> finding water and maybe even life on this distant icy moon."
>
> Hvac Water creates ions. Maybe there is lightning,and lightning can
> help create life. Its been done in labs all the time. TreBert



While lightning may play a part in the creation of life, it's only a small
part of a billion other variables that would have to fall into place.
As for water, it's only necessary for life, "as we know it".
No life has been created in labs, just a few amino acids.
Not even Dr. Frankenstein could create life, only re-animate old body parts
that were already still "alive".

However if this block of rock managed to host bio-organisms, the same
chances exist everywhere else.
As we are finding out more and more that the rock we call Earth,... is
nothing special.

Lets just hope that if we ever do meet E.T. that they got this
life/existance thing right,
and missed the part about creating politicians.



BradGuth
2010-02-10 08:31:40 EST
On Feb 10, 4:58 am, "Bast" <faken...@nomail.invalid> wrote:
> bert wrote:
> > On Feb 9, 5:46 pm, HVAC <mr.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Some of 'the major ingredients for life' are present on one of
> >> Saturn's moons, according to University College London scientists.
>
> >> A team from the Mullard Space Science Laboratory working on the
> >> Cassini-Huygens mission have found negatively charged water ions in
> >> the ice plume of Enceladus.
>
> >> Their analysis of data gathered during the spacecraft's plume fly-
> >> throughs in 2008 provide evidence for the presence of liquid water.
>
> >> The spacecraft's plasma spectrometer, used to gather this data, also
> >> found other species of negatively charged ions including hydrocarbons.
>
> >> MSSL's Professor Andrew Coates, lead author of a paper on the latest
> >> discovery, said: "While it's no surprise that there is water there,
> >> these short-lived ions are extra evidence for sub-surface water and
> >> where there's water, carbon and energy, some of the major ingredients
> >> for life are present.
>
> >> The surprise for us was to look at the mass of these ions. There were
> >> several peaks in the spectrum, and when we analysed them we saw the
> >> effect of water molecules clustering together one after the other."
>
> >> Enceladus thus joins Earth, Titan and comets where negatively charged
> >> ions are known to exist in the solar system. Negative oxygen ions were
> >> discovered in Earth's ionosphere at the dawn of the space age. At
> >> Earth's surface, negative water ions are present where liquid water is
> >> in motion, such as waterfalls or crashing ocean waves.
>
> >> The plasma spectrometer measures the density, flow velocity and
> >> temperature of ions and electrons that enter the instrument. But since
> >> the discovery of Enceladus' water ice plume, the instrument has also
> >> successfully captured and analysed samples of material in the jets.
>
> >> Early in its mission, Cassini-Huygens discovered the plume that
> >> fountains water vapour and ice particles above Enceladus. Since then,
> >> scientists have found that these water products dominate Saturn's
> >> magnetic environment and create Saturn's huge E-ring.
>
> >> At Titan, the same instrument detected extremely large negative
> >> hydrocarbon ions with masses up to 13,800 times that of hydrogen. Dr
> >> Coates and his colleagues believe large ions are the source of the
> >> smog-like haze that blocks most of Titan's surface from view.
>
> >> The new findings add to astronomers' growing knowledge of the detailed
> >> chemistry of Enceladus' plume and Titan's atmosphere, giving new
> >> understanding of environments beyond Earth where prebiotic or life-
> >> sustaining environments might exist.
>
> >> Professor Keith Mason, Chief Executive of the Science and Technology
> >> Facilities Council (STFC), which funds the UK involvement in Cassini-
> >> Huygens, said: "This measurement of water ions in the ice plume of
> >> Enceladus is incredibly exciting and provides us with further hope of
> >> finding water and maybe even life on this distant icy moon."
>
> > Hvac  Water creates ions. Maybe there is lightning,and lightning can
> > help create life. Its been done in labs all the time.  TreBert
>
> While lightning may play a part in the creation of life, it's only a small
> part of a billion other variables that would have to fall into place.
> As for water, it's only necessary for life, "as we know it".
> No life has been created in labs, just a few amino acids.
> Not even Dr. Frankenstein could create life, only re-animate old body parts
> that were already still "alive".
>
> However if this block of rock managed to host bio-organisms, the same
> chances exist everywhere else.
> As we are finding out more and more that the rock we call Earth,... is
> nothing special.
>
> Lets just hope that if we ever do meet E.T. that they got this
> life/existance thing right,
> and missed the part about creating politicians.

Seans keep telling us there's water and life most everywhere. Why
shouldn't we believe them?

An honest look-see at the planet Venus is a real eye opener, however
most here can't manage to do any basic kind of photo enlargement, much
less interpret squat without risking another mainstream status quo
brain blowout.

Obviously the laws of physics are even quite different and/or
conditional for our moon(Selene), because our NASA keeps telling us
there's loads of surface water/ice to behold within polar craters that
get down to 25 K, and you'd certainly have to believe anything our
NASA has to say. However, I wonder why we still have nothing
objectively known for certain about raw/naked ice coexisting in space.

~ BG
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