Research Discussion: So God DIDN'T Create The Earth?

So God DIDN'T Create The Earth?
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_//!! _//!!
2009-10-25 06:10:28 EST

"HVAC" <mr.hvac@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8ac5b50a-2b92-4d5c-a877-18ad5b001900@h2g2000vbd.googlegroups.com...
> Professor Ellen van Wolde, a respected Old Testament scholar and
> author, claims the first sentence of Genesis "in the beginning God
> created the Heaven and the Earth" is not a true translation of the
> Hebrew.
>
> She claims she has carried out fresh textual analysis that suggests
> the writers of the great book never intended to suggest that God
> created the world -- and in fact the Earth was already there when he
> created humans and animals.
>
> Prof Van Wolde, 54, who will present a thesis on the subject at
> Radboud University in The Netherlands where she studies, said she had
> re-analysed the original Hebrew text and placed it in the context of
> the Bible as a whole, and in the context of other creation stories
> from ancient Mesopotamia.
>
> She said she eventually concluded the Hebrew verb "bara", which is
> used in the first sentence of the book of Genesis, does not mean "to
> create" but to "spatially separate".
>
> The first sentence should now read "in the beginning God separated the
> Heaven and the Earth"
>
> According to Judeo-Christian tradition, God created the Earth out of
> nothing.
>
> Prof Van Wolde, who once worked with the Italian academic and novelist
> Umberto Eco, said her new analysis showed that the beginning of the
> Bible was not the beginning of time, but the beginning of a narration.
>
> She said: "It meant to say that God did create humans and animals, but
> not the Earth itself."
>
> She writes in her thesis that the new translation fits in with ancient
> texts.
>
> According to them there used to be an enormous body of water in which
> monsters were living, covered in darkness, she said.
>
> She said technically "bara" does mean "create" but added: "Something
> was wrong with the verb.
>
> "God was the subject (God created), followed by two or more objects.
> Why did God not create just one thing or animal, but always more?"
>
> She concluded that God did not create, he separated: the Earth from
> the Heaven, the land from the sea, the sea monsters from the birds and
> the swarming at the ground.
>
> "There was already water," she said.
>
> "There were sea monsters. God did create some things, but not the
> Heaven and Earth. The usual idea of creating-out-of-nothing, creatio
> ex nihilo, is a big misunderstanding."
>
> God came later and made the earth livable, separating the water from
> the land and brought light into the darkness.
>
> She said she hoped that her conclusions would spark "a robust debate",
> since her finds are not only new, but would also touch the hearts of
> many religious people.
>
> She said: "Maybe I am even hurting myself. I consider myself to be
> religious and the Creator used to be very special, as a notion of
> trust. I want to keep that trust."
>
> A spokesman for the Radboud University said: "The new interpretation
> is a complete shake up of the story of the Creation as we know it."
>
> Prof Van Wolde added: "The traditional view of God the Creator is
> untenable now."
2
In the beginning E = MC = GOD created the Heavens and the Earth and
all the *Beings* in the Heavens who in turn engineered the beings on Earth.

"Let [us] make man in our image".

"In the beginning" is a manner of speaking, as there IS no beginning and no
2
end. E = MC *IS* neither created nor destroyed.

*Hallelujah*

*Amen*



HVAC
2009-10-25 07:25:38 EST
Professor Ellen van Wolde, a respected Old Testament scholar and
author, claims the first sentence of Genesis "in the beginning God
created the Heaven and the Earth" is not a true translation of the
Hebrew.

She claims she has carried out fresh textual analysis that suggests
the writers of the great book never intended to suggest that God
created the world -- and in fact the Earth was already there when he
created humans and animals.

Prof Van Wolde, 54, who will present a thesis on the subject at
Radboud University in The Netherlands where she studies, said she had
re-analysed the original Hebrew text and placed it in the context of
the Bible as a whole, and in the context of other creation stories
from ancient Mesopotamia.

She said she eventually concluded the Hebrew verb "bara", which is
used in the first sentence of the book of Genesis, does not mean "to
create" but to "spatially separate".

The first sentence should now read "in the beginning God separated the
Heaven and the Earth"

According to Judeo-Christian tradition, God created the Earth out of
nothing.

Prof Van Wolde, who once worked with the Italian academic and novelist
Umberto Eco, said her new analysis showed that the beginning of the
Bible was not the beginning of time, but the beginning of a narration.

She said: "It meant to say that God did create humans and animals, but
not the Earth itself."

She writes in her thesis that the new translation fits in with ancient
texts.

According to them there used to be an enormous body of water in which
monsters were living, covered in darkness, she said.

She said technically "bara" does mean "create" but added: "Something
was wrong with the verb.

"God was the subject (God created), followed by two or more objects.
Why did God not create just one thing or animal, but always more?"

She concluded that God did not create, he separated: the Earth from
the Heaven, the land from the sea, the sea monsters from the birds and
the swarming at the ground.

"There was already water," she said.

"There were sea monsters. God did create some things, but not the
Heaven and Earth. The usual idea of creating-out-of-nothing, creatio
ex nihilo, is a big misunderstanding."

God came later and made the earth livable, separating the water from
the land and brought light into the darkness.

She said she hoped that her conclusions would spark "a robust debate",
since her finds are not only new, but would also touch the hearts of
many religious people.

She said: "Maybe I am even hurting myself. I consider myself to be
religious and the Creator used to be very special, as a notion of
trust. I want to keep that trust."

A spokesman for the Radboud University said: "The new interpretation
is a complete shake up of the story of the Creation as we know it."

Prof Van Wolde added: "The traditional view of God the Creator is
untenable now."

Jimbo
2009-10-25 07:34:29 EST
On Oct 25, 7:25 am, HVAC <mr.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Professor Ellen van Wolde, a respected Old Testament scholar and
> author, claims the first sentence of Genesis "in the beginning God
> created the Heaven and the Earth" is not a true translation of the
> Hebrew.
>

Since the entire thing is a fable, does it really matter?

Bill M
2009-10-25 08:32:27 EST
The Bibles are books of myths and fables - not accurate history.

"HVAC" <mr.hvac@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8ac5b50a-2b92-4d5c-a877-18ad5b001900@h2g2000vbd.googlegroups.com...
> Professor Ellen van Wolde, a respected Old Testament scholar and
> author, claims the first sentence of Genesis "in the beginning God
> created the Heaven and the Earth" is not a true translation of the
> Hebrew.
>
> She claims she has carried out fresh textual analysis that suggests
> the writers of the great book never intended to suggest that God
> created the world -- and in fact the Earth was already there when he
> created humans and animals.
>
> Prof Van Wolde, 54, who will present a thesis on the subject at
> Radboud University in The Netherlands where she studies, said she had
> re-analysed the original Hebrew text and placed it in the context of
> the Bible as a whole, and in the context of other creation stories
> from ancient Mesopotamia.
>
> She said she eventually concluded the Hebrew verb "bara", which is
> used in the first sentence of the book of Genesis, does not mean "to
> create" but to "spatially separate".
>
> The first sentence should now read "in the beginning God separated the
> Heaven and the Earth"
>
> According to Judeo-Christian tradition, God created the Earth out of
> nothing.
>
> Prof Van Wolde, who once worked with the Italian academic and novelist
> Umberto Eco, said her new analysis showed that the beginning of the
> Bible was not the beginning of time, but the beginning of a narration.
>
> She said: "It meant to say that God did create humans and animals, but
> not the Earth itself."
>
> She writes in her thesis that the new translation fits in with ancient
> texts.
>
> According to them there used to be an enormous body of water in which
> monsters were living, covered in darkness, she said.
>
> She said technically "bara" does mean "create" but added: "Something
> was wrong with the verb.
>
> "God was the subject (God created), followed by two or more objects.
> Why did God not create just one thing or animal, but always more?"
>
> She concluded that God did not create, he separated: the Earth from
> the Heaven, the land from the sea, the sea monsters from the birds and
> the swarming at the ground.
>
> "There was already water," she said.
>
> "There were sea monsters. God did create some things, but not the
> Heaven and Earth. The usual idea of creating-out-of-nothing, creatio
> ex nihilo, is a big misunderstanding."
>
> God came later and made the earth livable, separating the water from
> the land and brought light into the darkness.
>
> She said she hoped that her conclusions would spark "a robust debate",
> since her finds are not only new, but would also touch the hearts of
> many religious people.
>
> She said: "Maybe I am even hurting myself. I consider myself to be
> religious and the Creator used to be very special, as a notion of
> trust. I want to keep that trust."
>
> A spokesman for the Radboud University said: "The new interpretation
> is a complete shake up of the story of the Creation as we know it."
>
> Prof Van Wolde added: "The traditional view of God the Creator is
> untenable now."



01910infinity
2009-10-25 09:39:03 EST
On Oct 25, 7:25 am, HVAC <mr.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Professor Ellen van Wolde, a respected Old Testament scholar and
> author, claims the first sentence of Genesis "in the beginning God
> created the Heaven and the Earth" is not a true translation of the
> Hebrew.
>
> She claims she has carried out fresh textual analysis that suggests
> the writers of the great book never intended to suggest that God
> created the world -- and in fact the Earth was already there when he
> created humans and animals.

The 'earth' is matter in Creation.....
>
> Prof Van Wolde, 54, who will present a thesis on the subject at
> Radboud University in The Netherlands where she studies, said she had
> re-analysed the original Hebrew text and placed it in the context of
> the Bible as a whole, and in the context of other creation stories
> from ancient Mesopotamia.
>
> She said she eventually concluded the Hebrew verb "bara", which is
> used in the first sentence of the book of Genesis, does not mean "to
> create" but to "spatially separate".

Suns igniting creating companions....
>
> The first sentence should now read "in the beginning God separated the
> Heaven and the Earth"
>
> According to Judeo-Christian tradition, God created the Earth out of
> nothing.
>
> Prof Van Wolde, who once worked with the Italian academic and novelist
> Umberto Eco, said her new analysis showed that the beginning of the
> Bible was not the beginning of time, but the beginning of a narration.
>
> She said: "It meant to say that God did create humans and animals, but
> not the Earth itself."

The Earth formed, and could be seeded.....

His legions were made on different planets. One culture
per planet.....made way before the Adam....
>
> She writes in her thesis that the new translation fits in with ancient
> texts.
>
> According to them there used to be an enormous body of water in which
> monsters were living, covered in darkness, she said.
>
> She said technically "bara" does mean "create" but added: "Something
> was wrong with the verb.
>
> "God was the subject (God created), followed by two or more objects.
> Why did God not create just one thing or animal, but always more?"
>
> She concluded that God did not create, he separated: the Earth from
> the Heaven, the land from the sea, the sea monsters from the birds and
> the swarming at the ground.
>
> "There was already water," she said.

He separated the 'waters from the waters', The planet oceans
from the vacuum of space.....with an atmosphere......
>
> "There were sea monsters. God did create some things, but not the
> Heaven and Earth. The usual idea of creating-out-of-nothing, creatio
> ex nihilo, is a big misunderstanding."

Earth....dirt, rocks, and molten rock......
>
> God came later and made the earth livable, separating the water from
> the land and brought light into the darkness.

"Let there be light" was the ignition of stars/suns......
Some creating companion planets....

HaShem Said "ENOUGH" when there were enough of those systems
in Creation....

Black holes are recyclers. Matter to energy out the center
as molten matter. They keep Creation perpetual. Every Galaxy
will eventually enter a black hole....
>
> She said she hoped that her conclusions would spark "a robust debate",
> since her finds are not only new, but would also touch the hearts of
> many religious people.
>
> She said: "Maybe I am even hurting myself. I consider myself to be
> religious and the Creator used to be very special, as a notion of
> trust. I want to keep that trust."

I don't worship HaShem. Creator God and the Almighty
God of Israel. We are in 'awe', of him. His reason and
motive for making the natural Creation. To hav a son
born to a virgin He would make.....
>
> A spokesman for the Radboud University said: "The new interpretation
> is a complete shake up of the story of the Creation as we know it."
>
> Prof Van Wolde added: "The traditional view of God the Creator is
> untenable now."

How's this for a revision...

"And Cain knew his Neanderthal wife."

We are 99.5% Neanderthal genome......

http://dodona.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=genetics&action=display&t...

"Alan Cooper, professor of zoology at Oxford University,
agreed with the findings, but suggests that Neanderthals
should not be ruled out just yet as direct human ancestors."

"Neanderthals could have contributed to modern humans
through the mixed male offspring who would not pass on
their mtDNA. Bones preserve mtDNA better than nuclear
DNA. So mtDNA. comparison and elimination of Neanderthal
DNA and modern human DNA is not possible."

FYI
The mixed male offspring of Cain. All he borne were
males.....


Tirebiter
2009-10-25 09:44:46 EST
On Oct 25, 7:34 am, Jimbo <ckdbig...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 25, 7:25 am, HVAC <mr.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Professor Ellen van Wolde, a respected Old Testament scholar and
> > author, claims the first sentence of Genesis "in the beginning God
> > created the Heaven and the Earth" is not a true translation of the
> > Hebrew.
>
> Since the entire thing is a fable, does it really matter?

Precisely. All that, yet another, "correct" interpretation does is
show how silly every single interpretation has been up to date. A god
that created the universe shouldn't have this much trouble
communicating with its "chosen" people.

---
a.a. 2273

BradGuth
2009-10-25 10:21:11 EST
On Oct 25, 3:34 am, Jimbo <ckdbig...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 25, 7:25 am, HVAC <mr.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Professor Ellen van Wolde, a respected Old Testament scholar and
> > author, claims the first sentence of Genesis "in the beginning God
> > created the Heaven and the Earth" is not a true translation of the
> > Hebrew.
>
> Since the entire thing is a fable, does it really matter?

What part of seeding other worlds and even a few moons with our DNA
and a vast number of other biodiversity don't you like?

~ BG

BradGuth
2009-10-25 10:24:26 EST
On Oct 25, 3:25 am, HVAC <mr.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Professor Ellen van Wolde, a respected Old Testament scholar and
> author, claims the first sentence of Genesis "in the beginning God
> created the Heaven and the Earth" is not a true translation of the
> Hebrew.
>
> She claims she has carried out fresh textual analysis that suggests
> the writers of the great book never intended to suggest that God
> created the world -- and in fact the Earth was already there when he
> created humans and animals.
>
> Prof Van Wolde, 54, who will present a thesis on the subject at
> Radboud University in The Netherlands where she studies, said she had
> re-analysed the original Hebrew text and placed it in the context of
> the Bible as a whole, and in the context of other creation stories
> from ancient Mesopotamia.
>
> She said she eventually concluded the Hebrew verb "bara", which is
> used in the first sentence of the book of Genesis, does not mean "to
> create" but to "spatially separate".
>
> The first sentence should now read "in the beginning God separated the
> Heaven and the Earth"
>
> According to Judeo-Christian tradition, God created the Earth out of
> nothing.
>
> Prof Van Wolde, who once worked with the Italian academic and novelist
> Umberto Eco, said her new analysis showed that the beginning of the
> Bible was not the beginning of time, but the beginning of a narration.
>
> She said: "It meant to say that God did create humans and animals, but
> not the Earth itself."
>
> She writes in her thesis that the new translation fits in with ancient
> texts.
>
> According to them there used to be an enormous body of water in which
> monsters were living, covered in darkness, she said.
>
> She said technically "bara" does mean "create" but added: "Something
> was wrong with the verb.
>
> "God was the subject (God created), followed by two or more objects.
> Why did God not create just one thing or animal, but always more?"
>
> She concluded that God did not create, he separated: the Earth from
> the Heaven, the land from the sea, the sea monsters from the birds and
> the swarming at the ground.
>
> "There was already water," she said.
>
> "There were sea monsters. God did create some things, but not the
> Heaven and Earth. The usual idea of creating-out-of-nothing, creatio
> ex nihilo, is a big misunderstanding."
>
> God came later and made the earth livable, separating the water from
> the land and brought light into the darkness.
>
> She said she hoped that her conclusions would spark "a robust debate",
> since her finds are not only new, but would also touch the hearts of
> many religious people.
>
> She said: "Maybe I am even hurting myself. I consider myself to be
> religious and the Creator used to be very special, as a notion of
> trust. I want to keep that trust."
>
> A spokesman for the Radboud University said: "The new interpretation
> is a complete shake up of the story of the Creation as we know it."
>
> Prof Van Wolde added: "The traditional view of God the Creator is
> untenable now."

What part of seeding other worlds and even a few moons with our DNA
and a vast number of other biodiversity don't you like?

Are you saying that directed panspermia is technically impossible?

Brad Guth, Brad_Guth, Brad.Guth, BradGuth, BG / “Guth Usenet”

Vtcapo
2009-10-25 10:34:34 EST
On Oct 25, 10:24 am, BradGuth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 25, 3:25 am, HVAC <mr.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Professor Ellen van Wolde, a respected Old Testament scholar and
> > author, claims the first sentence of Genesis "in the beginning God
> > created the Heaven and the Earth" is not a true translation of the
> > Hebrew.
>
> > She claims she has carried out fresh textual analysis that suggests
> > the writers of the great book never intended to suggest that God
> > created the world -- and in fact the Earth was already there when he
> > created humans and animals.
>
> > Prof Van Wolde, 54, who will present a thesis on the subject at
> > Radboud University in The Netherlands where she studies, said she had
> > re-analysed the original Hebrew text and placed it in the context of
> > the Bible as a whole, and in the context of other creation stories
> > from ancient Mesopotamia.
>
> > She said she eventually concluded the Hebrew verb "bara", which is
> > used in the first sentence of the book of Genesis, does not mean "to
> > create" but to "spatially separate".
>
> > The first sentence should now read "in the beginning God separated the
> > Heaven and the Earth"
>
> > According to Judeo-Christian tradition, God created the Earth out of
> > nothing.
>
> > Prof Van Wolde, who once worked with the Italian academic and novelist
> > Umberto Eco, said her new analysis showed that the beginning of the
> > Bible was not the beginning of time, but the beginning of a narration.
>
> > She said: "It meant to say that God did create humans and animals, but
> > not the Earth itself."
>
> > She writes in her thesis that the new translation fits in with ancient
> > texts.
>
> > According to them there used to be an enormous body of water in which
> > monsters were living, covered in darkness, she said.
>
> > She said technically "bara" does mean "create" but added: "Something
> > was wrong with the verb.
>
> > "God was the subject (God created), followed by two or more objects.
> > Why did God not create just one thing or animal, but always more?"
>
> > She concluded that God did not create, he separated: the Earth from
> > the Heaven, the land from the sea, the sea monsters from the birds and
> > the swarming at the ground.
>
> > "There was already water," she said.
>
> > "There were sea monsters. God did create some things, but not the
> > Heaven and Earth. The usual idea of creating-out-of-nothing, creatio
> > ex nihilo, is a big misunderstanding."
>
> > God came later and made the earth livable, separating the water from
> > the land and brought light into the darkness.
>
> > She said she hoped that her conclusions would spark "a robust debate",
> > since her finds are not only new, but would also touch the hearts of
> > many religious people.
>
> > She said: "Maybe I am even hurting myself. I consider myself to be
> > religious and the Creator used to be very special, as a notion of
> > trust. I want to keep that trust."
>
> > A spokesman for the Radboud University said: "The new interpretation
> > is a complete shake up of the story of the Creation as we know it."
>
> > Prof Van Wolde added: "The traditional view of God the Creator is
> > untenable now."
>
> What part of seeding other worlds and even a few moons with our DNA
> and a vast number of other biodiversity don't you like?
>
> Are you saying that directed panspermia is technically impossible?
>
>  Brad Guth, Brad_Guth, Brad.Guth, BradGuth, BG / “Guth Usenet”

BG, sounds like Crick and Sitchen may have been on to
something.........

RT

HVAC
2009-10-25 10:45:39 EST

"Jimbo" <ckdbigtoe@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:67b16ac5-b86a-4cd5-9d0f-1147f17a0f0e@f10g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 25, 7:25 am, HVAC <mr.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Professor Ellen van Wolde, a respected Old Testament scholar and
> author, claims the first sentence of Genesis "in the beginning God
> created the Heaven and the Earth" is not a true translation of the
> Hebrew.
>

Since the entire thing is a fable, does it really matter?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


It's kinda like arguing over whether Hansel and Gretel dropped
bread crumbs or cheese crumbs to find their way home.






--
HVA\ufffd - Shock Treatment For Believers


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